Between this and the outroar about the entire Judge spoiler banning thing, alongside other fiascos in this past year, I decided I no longer want to support WOTC. They're just essentially treating their playerbase like shit. Now don't get me wrong I own a handful of Legacy and Modern staples, like Lillys, Snaps, Tarmos, Fetches and even some Duals, so I'm not salty about this. I'm salty that I won't be able to play Legacy with people now because A) WOTC refuses to reprint ridiculously priced cards or cards in the reserved list so Legacy becomes more accessible and B) They now axed proxies, which was the alternative for poorfags to play Legacy.
Since they don't seem to care for me and they are actively wanting to kill all formats but Standard and Limited, I won't be supporting them anymore. So, does anyone know about where to buy extremely good counterfeits? Things that could pass for the real thing even in a sanctioned tournament when subjected to close scrutiny? I know they exist, but I haven't had the need to buy them until now. Thanks in advance
>TL;DR where can I buy counterfeits of expensive cards just to piss WOTC off
>>44766848
What did people really think was going to happen when they started making noise about this?
Honestly.
>>44766848
How about you just quit the game? Would send the same message to WotC without risking legal action.
>>44766902
I want to play, I just don't want to give them my money anymore. I'll keep the original cards and staples I have of course, but from now on and until they change their policies I'll just be buying counterfeits. Also the only "legal action" they could take is banning me from play.
>>44766848
>I don't like thing
>Google no works for fake cardz
>I don't like thing!!!!
M'ky.
>>44766928
Of course Google works, I'm just asking about where to buy the realest, best counterfeits. There's bound to be someone here that has bought some, be it for play, for Cubes, or because he's a broke fuck and tried to pass it as the real thing.
>>44766848
>B) They now axed proxies, which was the alternative for poorfags to play Legacy.
Mmmmm, no. Official Wizards policy has always been against proxies. They have changed literally nothing.
>>44766949
Read the pic in the OP. You can't play unsanctioned events anymore. For me to play paper Legacy from now on is just inviting the few friends that have Legacy decks to my house because those who don't aren't allowed to play with proxies at the shop, even if the event is unsanctioned.
>>44766848
>manchild's impotent rage.
no one cares or give a shit about you.
>>44766972
Seconded
>>44766972
>look at me not caring! i totally not care about this at all!
If you don't care or give a shit why did you come here to post? I want you to fuck off of the thread you fucking autistic attention whore.
>>44766961
This was always their policy, it just previously hadn't been enforced because people hadn't drawn their attention to the prevalence of proxy events.
Then, recently, some chucklefucks decided to make noise at Wizards about getting Vintage/Legacy proxies officially legalized, citing the fact that all these shops already did it.
Predictably, the hammer came down.
Each gaming niche had its share of crying little bitches.
MtG, leads the pack tho.
30 threads a day with some cardfag, weeping or buttmad about something.
Find a new hobby you epic fucking faggots.
>>44766995
their policy was for sanctioned events though, op is right and the backlash is justified.
>>44766972
>>44766982
>>44766997
woah chill out samefag i know you're trying to appear cool and edgy but you're a major bitch being mad at people who are mad
also i'll just leave this here
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/sunday-1230-pm-%E2%80%93-sights-vintage-2013-11-03
relevant quote being: If you're worried about being able to get your hands on the cards (they are fairly hard to come by), talk to your local store owner or TO about hosting a proxy tournament! They're not able to be sanctioned, but they're a great way to enjoy Vintage fun and get a chance to experience this unique, incredibly rich format!
Ed went and posted the email he actually got from WoTC
> Hello Edward,
>Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. As we discussed we received information concerning some questionable or undesirable activity that occurred at your store. We understand many of these issues stem from misconceptions or miscommunications and I have summarized what we discussed below.
>• Magic events (sanctioned and unsanctioned) can only allow genuine Magic: The Gathering cards.
>• Proxy cards are substitute cards created solely by judges in sanctioned tournaments pursuant to the official tournament rules. These substitutes are allowed when authorized game cards become unplayable during a sanctioned tournament because of damage or excessive wear.
>• Counterfeit cards are copies or reproductions of actual Wizards trading cards, whether or not they are identified as non-genuine. The creation and distribution of counterfeits violate United States and international copyright laws and negatively affects the integrity of Wizards’ trading card games. Counterfeits are strictly prohibited, even for personal, non-commercial use
This is the policy as it has been, but wizards is now enforcing it and saying that it applies to unsanctioned events held at sanctioned venues.
>>44767069
I understand they're banned in sanctioned tournaments. I'm not a child. Hell, I myself would be pissed if I was playing in a big event and someone came with a 60 Islands deck with names written over them. But for unsanctioned tournaments, or for Reserved List cards from which they can't make money anymore because of their own conscious decision to not print them anymore, that's an absolute dick move. If you want to playtest you can't do it in a store anymore.
>>44766961
>You can't play unsanctioned events anymore
You can though, Just do it anywhere that's not your FLGS
>>44767102
I can't help but feel like there's a lot going on behind the scenes here, like somebody higher up at Hasbro got wind of it and is putting pressure on WotC. Shit like >>44767026
where there's literally an article on the Magic website advocating proxy vintage just doesn't add up.
>>44767120
That article being more than 2 years old kind of puts that in a different perspective, though.
>>44767120
It's because Ed up there streamed the proxy tournament for the world to see. I repeat again, a Wizards approved store, streamed a proxy tournament online.
Of course such detail is always omitted by the raging complaining neckbeards.
>>44767108
It's not my LGS fault. I still want to support them buying product that doesn't come from WOTC. Less people going to playtest there = losses for the shop. Before this, we used to playtest with proxies and if we liked the deck we'd buy singles then and there. I would go with a 60 proxies deck and then come out with 50$+ worht of cards, plus boxes, sleeves and etc for my new deck. With the option you propose, people will just playtest in their homes and then order the cards via TCG because they're not going to drive to the shop just for a buy.
>>44767120
It probably was a big shop like SCG or a similar one that got wind of it and pressured WotC because a 10 proxy tournament interferes with their ability to charge 800$ for an Imperial Seal.
>>44767140
Yes, and WotC published an article saying "Don't worry if you can't afford Vintage, just ask your TO to set up a proxy vintage tournament!"
Prior to this, it was widely accepted that proxies were allowed in unsanctioned events. Someone streaming said tournament was certainly what drew their attention, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a complete 180 from what seemed to be their previous position.
Friendly reminder that if WotC just reprinted cards in supplemental products without a limited print run clause proxies and counterfeits wouldn't happen.
>>44767155
Is playtesting an event?
No it fucking isn't. Drafts, tournaments etc. are events.
If your store is banning all proxies, always, period; that's on them
>>44767197
They're casual unsanctioned events if 20+ people come to playtest though, and it's treated as a casual tournament, only unsanctioned. What you're using as an example are sanctioned evencts.
>>44767175
Proxy tournaments for legacy/vintage have and will always be a grey area. Everyone knows that.
Well, everyone but the fucking idiot.
>>44767197
>Is playtesting an event?
Yes.
>>44767197
>Banning all proxies
>Proxies
That's not how you spell counterfeit, goy.
>>44767208
>and it's treated as a casual tournament
yeah exactly don't do that. That is a tournament.
Buying a box and drafting it in the store with 7 buddies is also not a sanctioned event, but it's an event.
Both my examples aren't sanctioned by definition at all, but they are events.
>>44767211
I say again: there is an article taken directly from the official MtG website, which was posted in this very thread, that specifically suggests organizing and participating in a proxy vintage tournament.
>>44767243
The article is from 2013 bro. Things change.
>>44767237
So why can't I play a makeshift tournament if it's not sanctioned? What's stopping me from doing the exact same thing in the bar next to the shop and pooling 5$ for each player and then give the money as prizes? The ones that get fucked over this, as always, are the players and now even the shops arent safe.
>>44767243
And i will say again, it's a grey area.
Weed are legalized in some states, but try smoking it outside and see how fast your ass gets jailed.
>>44767237
Read that last bullet point again:
>• Counterfeit cards are copies or reproductions of actual Wizards trading cards, whether or not they are identified as non-genuine. The creation and distribution of counterfeits violate United States and international copyright laws and negatively affects the integrity of Wizards’ trading card games. Counterfeits are strictly prohibited, even for personal, non-commercial use
They don't care what purpose you're using them for, they're cracking down hard. Just allowing people to use them in your store could be grounds for losing WPN status.
>>44767254
Noone's stopping you if you don't stream the fucking thing online.
The ideal course of action in this scenario would be for people to start encouraging their FLGSes to quit holding sanctioned events in protest. Especially if you're one of the people who thinks recent and near future Magic is and has been shit.
>>44767254
>So why can't I play a makeshift tournament if it's not sanctioned? What's stopping me from doing the exact same thing in the bar next to the shop and pooling 5$ for each player and then give the money as prizes?
That is exactly what is suggested here>>44767108
In fact it's perfect to have a bar next to the shop. You can go back and buy that 50 bucks worth of shit they'd have lost out on otherwise
>>44767250
Which is exactly why people are upset; Wizard's stance has changed, and people are upset about it.
>>44767270
Unfortunately, that's probably not a viable solution. No sanctioned events means no FNM or anything, and a lot of shops probably rely heavily on FNM and casual players who don't even know what legacy or vintage are.
The actual ideal course of action is to become a judge, and hand out proxies for "damaged cards" like candy.
>>44767272
That's what we'll be doing. But that's not my point: my point is where can I buy perfect counterfeit cards to pass as the real thing because I won't be buying the real thing anymore in order to not support WOTC.
>>44767263
>they're cracking down hard
What will they do exactly?
Send undercover wizards employees to hang out at a store, silently checking all the decks being playtested for counterfeits then report the players that used counterfeits to the DCI?
Or maybe they're just gonna ask your LGS not to host proxy tournaments and make a vague threat
>>44767309
Woah goy watch your words lest you get banned three months after getting subjected to an "investigation"! And remember to report if you see another judge doing it! You will get a ban too but who cares, its your job to dedicate your unpaid free time to police the shops in our name!
>>44767270
>The ideal course of action in this scenario would be for people to start encouraging their FLGSes to bankrupt themselves
Are you willing to foot their rent and electricity bill?
>>44767318
If they get any evidence of proxy use (or 'counterfeit use" as they'd call it) in a store, they'll revoke that store's WPN status. No LGS is going to be willing to risk that, because all it takes is one asshole to contact WotC or one picture of people playing magic taken as a promotional thing getting back to them, and they're fucked.
No WPN status means no product, no product means no customers, no customers means no store.
>>44767318
>threatening to lose your income source is a "vague threat"
For the shops that make most of their income through Magic, the fear of losing WPN will be more than enough to weasel on each and every proxy. Furthermore if the "investigation" criteria is as vague as it has been, this means rival shops could send an "agent" with proxies in the deck to play a tournament at the rival shop and then report.
>>44767334
>If they get any evidence of proxy use (or 'counterfeit use" as they'd call it) in a store, they'll revoke that store's WPN status
No they won't. The stores will claim this happened without their knowing or the asshole will tell a store employee who will then ask those guys to leave.
>>44766848
If I had the money I'd do it myself and just drop the pile at GP Vegas to flood the fucking market with proxies.
It takes $12K to introduce 5k copies of each dual land and fuck over investors.
>>44767377
They banned every judge in an entire region simply because they were in a facebook group with people who spoiled cards from the most recent set, including the ones who informed on the leakers.
Do you realy think they're going to let this shit fly?
>>44767396
>Do you realy think they're going to let this shit fly?
Yes
One is their own direct source of income the other is not
One is nearly impossible to enforce the other is not
>>44767269
Yeah it just takes a bitchfaggot SCG shill and your store is getting reported anyway.
SCG is the most cancerous thing to ever grace MTG and I'd love to see it crumble to dust, so I'm also interested in the counterfeit thingy. I know some of you fuckers have bought, or know where to buy real looking ones. I mean it's statistically impossible no one in /tg/ has done it for whatever reason.
>>44766848
We should all get judge levels since iirc it's free.
>Walk into store
>clear throat
>WHAT'S THAT LITTLE TIMMY? FILTHY NEO-NAZIES BURNED HALF OF THE STORE'S DECKS JUUUUUST AFTER YOU INSCRIBED YOURSELF? WHY YES OF COURSE I'M GIVING YOU PROXIES FOR THE EVENT!
Aliexpress. Waiting on mine atm, ordered blue cards (I've heard black is the best looking)
I think there's a youtube on how to make your own, using foils I believe (m10 or m15 foils or something work best? Idk) dipping em in acetone. Idk look it up friendo
Don't sell proxies tho pls and ty
>>44767462
I'm not that cynic. I just want to fuck over SCG and WotC. Enough is enough. I will encourage others to buy proxies, though, and probably buy some extras to sell them as proxies (not as the real thingy).
How expensive are them in Aliexpress? Have you ordered from the same seller before? Do they look realistic?
>>44767462
Is friendo a meme on /tg/ or something?
>SCG is evil cancer
Ok, sure, Why though?
They have no presence at all over here so I have no experience with them whatsoever. All I know is they do some big events in the USA.
Aren't they just a chain of game stores?
Don't you guys love chains over there?
>>44767486
First time buying, cheap as fuck. 10$ for a bundle. Pic related, 8$ plus i got snapcasters as singles
Not sure what to expect, but stoked regardless. Kinda hope the snaps are mythic rare or something, or are 3/1s but then again I also hope they look alright
>>44767498
I honestly have no idea I don't dabble in memes that much
>>44767562
Because they essentially have the monopoly over the secondary market. They set the prices for cards first and then everyone copies them. They essentially buy out cards from other stores to artificially inflate prices. Ever wondered why a card spiked all of a sudden? Chances are it's SCG's doing. Sure, it could be a timely spike because of a PT or a GP, but that's just the minority of the cases. And once SCG hijacks a price, it doesn't go back because price memory.
>>44767562
They're big, and they're making money.
Neckbeards have a strange autistic hatred when gaming stores are making money off them.
>>44767614
>tfw inquisition
They saw a new archtype, basically an inexpensive tron, and figured "no no no, that won't do... you pay THIIIIIIS much"
>>44767614
>They essentially buy out cards from other stores to artificially inflate prices.
Couldn't smaller stores just band together and not sell to them? Though I assume they're not actually hurt by someone buying their stock.
If it's a player issue, have there not been attempts at boycotts or something?
>Ever wondered why a card spiked all of a sudden?
It doesn't really happen like that over here. Thank you Atlantic ocean.
>>44767583
What vendor my man? Also charge your phone
>>44767645
Gaddock Teeg's stock also dried and then spiked a few weeks ago for no apparent reason, and Eye of Ugin jumped from 4$ to 20$.
Reserved List was the worst thing that ever happened to Magic. Collectors are faggots
>>44767694
>Couldn't smaller stores just band together and not sell to them? Though I assume they're not actually hurt by someone buying their stock.
If it's a player issue, have there not been attempts at boycotts or something?
They're getting money from the sales so why should they. Also if they advertise their product online I think they're forced to sell it to the customer.
>It doesn't really happen like that over here. Thank you Atlantic ocean.
It may not spike all of a sudden, but trust me, SCG really dictates MTG economy and prices. I hear Inquisition and Eye of Ugin also jumped in Europe, although far less than USA.
>>44767703
Go on aliexpress and search "proxy card" first result should be blue, 73% off.
You'll need the app to order, send a pm to the seller
And yeah same as ugin man, Bx Eldrazi cannot be inexpensive because people want it I guess
>>44767719
I basically meant if there was like a call to players to stop supporting them. I can understand why sellers wouldn't
>Eye of Ugin jumped
>check
>It is now 10 euros at the cheapest
You're right, but at least we still have the time to do our buying before the rise starts
>>44767773
>median of 10$
>literally in a single day leaped to a median of 25$
>>44767562
They inflated the price of cards.
Remember when NOBODY played legacy and shit was cheap?
Then it got SCG'd.
>>44767736
Are any of those sets good for some casual fun with casual people?
>>44767616
Fuck off SCG shill
>>44766995
There are articles on the wizards website from a few years ago literally telling you you can ask your store owner to run a proxy event.
>>44767706
this, completely and utterly this, it doesn't help that wizardsd always panders to the single faggiest denominator they can find, and then ruin perfectly acceptable games doing this.
these faggots are literally the EA of TRPG's and card games,
The online Magic community is fhe whiniest, bitchiest, most entitled, rudest and least pleasant group I've ever been a part of.
Fuck it. I'm out. Fuck y'all, fuck Chinaman, fuck the hate. I'm going to FNM.
