Proof that you can make a dark story without any battles, torture or Chaos corruption. Also proof that Emperor is retarded.
Okay.
>>44709525
Talk an old priest into letting you burn down his church and then he throws himself into the flame as the last "fuck you"...not really dark, just pretentious and preachy.
>>44710041
stories involving Khorne worshippers are much better I agree
>>44709525
>Emperor uses Atheism 101 arguments to defend his work
Le crusades were bad, that's why I'm starting a crusade doesn't hold a candle. Philosophers have not been wasting paper for centuries for you to use "priests touch kiddies in the wee-wee" against religion.
Seriously that is the problem with not god-like genius people trying to write god-like genius characters. They just can't.
>>44710041
More sophomoric than pretentious, but yeah.
>>44710614
but that's exactly the point
Emperor thinks he leads mankind into a better future but in reality not only he uses the very same methods as people he despised but also can't really justify it just like the Imperium became everything he hated he was pretty much the blind zealot he wanted to save the world from
>>44709525
>Also proof that Emperor is retarded
Considering his arguments could be easily rebuked by people I know and century-old theologians, yeah, he's very retarded. Who wrote this went far beyond his skill.
Also, there was a a kinda-battle. Thunder warriors massacred many thousands of rebels.
That said, it wasn't really dark. There are far darker stories on Discworld, also related to religion and atheism, but Pratchett doesn't make a point of it like Warhammer tries to.
>The elves had killed the fish in the pond. Eventually.
>>44710731
...
You are aware the guy who wrote this story is a reddit-tier atheist, yeah?
>>44711381
>>44711381
>There are far darker stories on Discworld
That's because Pratchett could actually write.
>>44711533
Pratchett is god pretty much.
>>44711488
I am aware you throwing buzzwords and being a cancerous twat.
>>44711623
He isn't wrong.
>>44711533
Certainly. He knows that a single detailed drama may move more feelings than millions of casualities.
In this particular story, it's also important that while Pratchett is clearly an atheist, he's inteligent and knows that instead of blaming scapegoats like religion, videogames, drugs or ideologies, the actual guilty are people themselves.
>>44711623
>Being this booty bothered
I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>44711573
>>44711669
>Terry is kill
(CAN'T WAKE UP)
>>44709525
>Also proof that graham mcneill is retarded*
>>44711695
Meanwhile goodkind is still alive
>>44709525
>BL will never create more stories that aren't about war but exploration, ideologies, factions and history
>BL will never do series about other interesting happenings like Age of Apostasy or Age of Strife but will keep milking HH
Feels really bad
>>44711717
Never read any work of his, what kind of genre (of fantasy) do they revolve around and are they worth it?
>>44711695
>>44711669 Here
>Terry is kill
(CAN'T WAKE UP)
You'll have to clarify what this means.
>>44711623
I mean, yeah the irony of the Emperor's justification for his actions is supposed to be the point of the story. You have correctly identified that. This thread is mostly about how Graham McNeill does a poor job of presenting that point and mostly ends up just making the Emperor look dumb as fuck.
>>44710731
>>44711623
Graham? Graham is that you?
>>44711741
X is kill means X is dead you damn newfag.
Pic related is the (CAN'T WAKE UP) meme
>>44711695
>All these posts referring to TP in past tense
T-triggered
>>44711757
Oh, ok. Thanks for the explanation.
I wish I wasn't a newfag, but for some reason 4chan wouldn't let me post anything for years, because my IP was blocked.
1D4chan used to have the whole story up but it was threatened by GW via lawsuit to take it down.
>>44709525
Dark? An actual friar would look at the dialogue and laugh, because the arguments are so, so dumb.
I guess Mcneill is one of those guys who likes Conan but never realized Samson makes a much better barbarian.
>>44711735
Objectivism.
>>44711669
>>44711533
And now imagine there won't be any new book in Discworld...
FUCK THIS GAY WORLD... at least we still have his old books.
>>44711937
There is an audio reading of it up on Youtube if anyone is interested, I listened to it a few days ago.
>>44711650
I am not even the anon he was talking to.
I just hate morons using buzzwords instead of having a decent discussion and explaining themselves. If he is not wrong, then let him explain himself.
>>44711735
Objectivism = teh bestest
Any form of regulation = EVIL! And is also Marxist communism.
Strawmaning like it's 2 for 1 at the scarecrow wholesalers.
Rape, torture bestiality and rape porn. So much rape and torture though none so bad as I felt reading it.
12 page soap box rants and wanking off Ayn Rand.
Terrible word flow.
Even worse almost none existant world building.
Apparently in interview he thought world building was beneath him and that he didn't write fiction he "dealt with important human themes".
>>44712105
Have you read the story? It's pretty self explanatory.
>>44711533
Who's Pratchett?
>>44709525
>Proof that you can make a dark story without any battles, torture or Chaos corruption. Also proof that Emperor is retarded.
Reminder the author met Dawkins and presented the story as proof that intelligence wins over religion.
>>44712436
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Pratchett
A very famous autor of fantasy. Whome passed away last year sadly. Was mostly known for DiscoWorld.
>>44712436
The rare fantasy writer whose stories focus as much, or more, on drama, people, feelings and small things instead of world-ending plots
Very funny to read, and I actually gained some wisdom from his books. No other fantasy author gave me this.
>Belief is as necessary to have justice, societies and love as it is for having gods.
>>44709525
I know it's a bretty bad short story, but I interpret it in a way that makes it unintentionally cool. I posted it recently aaaand, year, here's pasta.
As per my headcanon (partially confirmed in Outcast Dead), our God-Emperor has foreseen the eventual outcome of the Great Crusade - including the betrayal of half his sons and his own death and reign on the Golden Throne as a God. Being a mind of rationality and deeper understanding, he saw that inevitable outcome as rather despicable. So he came to the Last Church left on Earth - not to gloat over religion, but to listen to rhetoric of a God's man. Knowing that one day the Imperium will be going on nothing but faith, he wanted the priest to at least attempt to give Him faith and make Him believe, while He hardly did, but needed that faith more than ever. So He threw straw arguments as to see priest's beliefs in a challenge without utterly crushing him with a superior intellect, in hope of getting some of that resolve for Himself. The Emperor knew himself to be right, but hoped to be proven wrong by the priest, so that it would be easier for him to go through the Great Crusade and eventual Heresy.
>>44711381
could you give some examples? I think about getting into Pratchett my friend liked him but I never had a chance of reading any of his books.
>>44712688
Those books showed me that serious isn't opposite of funny. It is part of same.
>>44711573
God of what, I just can't remember
>>44711623
He unironically had Dawkins autograph a copy of The Last Church.
>>44712924
His stories could be read as stand alones but many of them were parts of series and the vast majority of them were part of a shared setting, the Discworld.
Which to recommend is difficult.
There is different tone between works. Small Gods is very different to Pyramids and The Truth despite them being part of the same setting and self contained.
One of my personal favourite is Carpe Jugulem but it is part of the Witches series and my favourite series is the Death series for the later books. This is not to say the early books of Death or the other books about the Witches were bad. Indeed they were very good and brought me to tears and outrageous laughter at different points.
For a stand alone introduction to the series I would recommend Moving Pictures.
Many people would recommend the Watch series because it has what many consider the best selection of characters.
>>44712517
>DiscoWorld.
Ouch.
>>44714068
.....really?.....that's just pathetic...
>>44713283
uderrated post.
>>44711970
I thoguh the priest only following a form of Christianity that was patched together from what people could find about the faith during the age of strife or was it an actual sect
>>44719856
Patched up? Quite probable. Also likely the author didn't want to quite identify it as catholic, and perhaps didn't even research into sects.
I used franciscan friars as example because those guys go preaching into the slums and really get a "hands-down" kind of preaching, like acknowledging apocryphal prostitute saints which the church never would admit. It's a whole other christianism which one never finds out in the internet or with the autistic faithful which go on discussing minuatie and canon just like /tg/ does with warhammer.
Even so, it still seems the story's priest never had to deal with kids asking the impertinent questions. Little buggers have leaps of logic which can really trouble adults.
>>44712015
>"It's not as simple as that. It's not a black-and-white issue. There are so many shades of gray."
>"There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
>"It's a lot more complicated than that-"
>"No. It ain't. When people say things are more complicated than that, they means they're getting worried that they won't like the truth. People as things, that's where it starts."
>"Oh, I'm sure there are worse crimes-"
>"But they starts with thinking about people as things…"
Chaos got nothing on Granny Weatherwax. They're lucky she isn't an inquisitor in warhammer.
>>44709525
I wonder how the one on the right liked that story.
>>44721539
Is she a hero the Imperium needs?
>>44721738
Today I learned Dawkins has abominable taste in ties...
>>44714068
Wait a second. The actual, literal-literal, non-ironic, "I really mean this: really" point of Last Church was supposed to be that the Emperor was *right* with his "Imperial Truth" bullshit?
Seriously? Because I took away the exact opposite conclusion: that religion is there for a good goddamn reason and you tear it away from man at your own fucking peril. As teh emps learned.
I am honestly surprised to learn this.
>>44721929
I didn't even notic how bad it looked until now. Are those leaves or green ant heads on his tie?
>>44722020
In McNeill's head, the Emperor did win. But I've never met anyone else that thinks this, and I was as surprised as you to learn it.
>>44722088
I think that there was a page on McNeill's blog that said Emps was right and you had to read it again to see it.
See, I always thought that the fact that where the physical might of the Emperor and his sons failed, mere belief suffices was supposed to be the supreme irony of the Heresy:
1. Emps says "IMPERIAL TRUTH WILL SAVE US FROM CHAOS!"
2. Lorgar says "No, religion is important! Here, I wrote this book."
3. Emps says "Papa Smurf, BTFO this faggot."
4. Lorgar falls, takes half of the universe with him. Emps gets coma'ed.
5. Lorgar's book (that is, the psychic gestalty stuff created by the veneration of the Emperor by the Imperium) ends up being what protects us from Chaos for 10k years and counting.
Proof that you can never, ever, go broke underestimating Black Library authors and editors.
>>44721855
Maybe.
I'm not sure the Imperium would survive her either
>>44722020
I also had this conclusion.
I'm still failing how it could be any different.
>>44721539
I never realized how much I needed this until now. Fuck you Terry, going off and dying like that ;-;
>>44721855
But not the one it deserves, sadly.
>>44722106
>when you have such a shit philosophy that people agree with your strawmen more than you
>>44722106
Never understood the whole "death of the author" thing until now...
>>44722605
>>44722794
God Emperor himself said nothing that can be evil if protects humanity. I say hire Weatherwax and see what happens.
>>44722858
>>44723345
Truly BL has fallen on hard times.
>>44722768
I like to think Big E nabs the souls of people that might be useful in future and brings them back when he needs them. If only Andrew Jackson would stop purging Exodite Worlds.
>>44710669
I'd say both.
Though I do consider it a little funny that it basically ended like, "Oh priest, it wasn't some god doing all that for you! It was me! The power was inside me all along!"
>>44723475
Well, if the Emprah wills it...
I sure wanna see what happens. I have no idea what, but something will happen.
Probably lots of somethings.Karamazov has no idea what's coming to get him...
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e2/0c/32/e20c32ecdb66968724a20b12238d923f.jpg
http://40.media.tumblr.com/29e16b1b931ebf2a2183805df833c69d/tumblr_n5xpnsYph31rp522qo1_500.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e0/7e/cf/e07ecf8ee97d99fd680f715a5d3eb49e.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f8/97/34/f89734745af242d2337968a942bc66ff.jpg
>>44722231
You're assuming HH authors can do irony. I don't.
>>44710614
>that is the problem with not god-like genius people trying to write god-like genius characters.
Page 1, book 1 of the Horus Heresy books I realised this was going to be the major failing for every single one.
Primarch's should have been portrayed at their most casual and informal as being nearly beyond comprehension and blinding to perceive in sight or thought.
And as for the Emperor himself- he's either a walking God or a 100 year old, especially gifted psyker. No in-between.
>>44725688
>You're assuming HH authors can do irony. I don't.
That flow of events predates the HH series though. They just elaborated on it.
>>44722231
I'm still at a loss trying to wrap my head around just exactly how he thought being reasonable in an inherently unreasonable universe would help.
Like, it works in a setting like Delta Green (or even the Mythos proper) because being sane makes you incapable of understanding the shit that wants you dead and the shit that might make you dead on accident through your understanding of it, but the 40k galaxy just doesn't work that way.
Hell, even his other laws were full retard. Grey Knights? Psykers. SoB? FAITH-powered nun guns who IIRC get/got the strongestbenniesto their Deny The Witch roll in the tabletop.
>>44711727
Jesus Christ that picture is comfier than my body can handle.
>>44711937
It's there if you use Wayback Machine
>>44709525
>>44710041
Except that's wrong. People just don't understand that it's not the bulding that makes a church. It's the people who go there to meet and worship that are the church.
>>44726632
He probably burnt them down as well.
Remember, its not fanaticism if there's no religion in it.
>>44721539
If she were an Inquisitor she would be a horror as much to the Imperium as Chaos and Xenos. She would be the equal and opposite to Abaddon, rallying huge hordes to slam into the Cadian Gate just as he was coming the other way and fucking his shit up by sheer bloody-mindedness.
And woe upon any Imperial not doing their part in His name. Inquisitor Weatherwax does not grant exceptions.
>>44709525
The book is ironically great because it shows the Emperor is no better than every previous man with a vision in the history of the human species.
"No no, you see I'M going to do everything right, this time. This time it will work."
>>44722858
>>44723345
Honestly, I'd really like to see a SOB book take the other point and try to argue it.
That faith IS important and crucial. I mean, that would be the harder point to argue these days. Especially with a faith like the Imperial Creed.
>>44724687
Thanks for the links, Anon.
>>44726995
>He probably burnt them down as well.
Yeah, I can see the Imperium of man doing that.
>>44709525
>Also proof that Emperor is retarded.
He isn't retarted. He is just unable to understand what other humans think and feel like.
>>44724687
This is am IMAGEboard, you dumb donut
>>44712105
I'm the guy you responded to. You want a explication?:
-McNeil is, to my knowledge, the first author who made the Emperor a huge fucking autist who wants to destroy religion because religion is evil guize.
-McNeil makes the GEOM bring arguments so easy to counterargue that they're covered in your first year in seminary and acts like they're the ultimate checkmate for religion.
-McNeil seems to have similar opinions IRL, seeing that he's a drooling Dawkins fanboy who gave the poofter a copy of the very book we are talking about after attending one of his atheist talks.
-Pic related.
>>44722675
You need the kind of blinders that zealotry can give you. You know, like how McNeil has.
>>44727002
It'd be great if this was intentional.
>>44713283
>>44728034
kek, I bet the faggot votes Libdem.
>>44727835
And yet he is psychic.
And after thousands of years seeing things through other peoples eyes should be as easy as walking.
But he still acts fucking retarded.
>I'll antagonize a super human who I gave command of a supersoldier legion to for centuries.
>OH NO! he turned on me! Why did this happen!?
>>44728320
I think it's BECAUSE he's psychic that he can't understand.
Reading people's minds is the easy mode of social interaction, and somebody who plays on easy is never going to master the game. It's like snatching the answer sheet for a math test; sure, you know exactly what responses to give to receive the desired result, but you haven't actually learned how to do math.
The Emperor was a being of focus and drive. He had a goal, and everything he did was to advance that goal. As a result, he neglected taking the time to understand the Why's of his methods in favor of determining the How's.
Sure, he probably picked up some degree of social insight, just as someone who cheats on a thousand tests will recognize patterns between questions and answers, but because it came from a million casual observations rather than a thousand close studies, his understanding was flawed, inconsistent, and largely unproven. After all, he never needed to use it, so why sit down and check if he's right? There's other work to do.
Ultimately, the Emperor was much better at working with crowds than with one person. You don't need to convince everybody in a crowd perfectly, just most of them mostly so. They'll do the rest of the convincing themselves.
With one person, though, you need to do the whole job, and as the Primarchs show, the Emperor couldn't.
>>44728495
Did the other perpetuals have this problem or was it just him?
>>44709525
>Emprah disowns and destroys the church he founded
>Church is refounded anyway without all the progress it made to not be a bunch of murderous zealots, which was the reason he disowned and destroyed it
>this thread
>>44722030
They're leaf-mimic insects
>>44728529
Just him, I think. The others weren't nearly as powerful, for one thing, so they'd have to do things the hard way more often. They also usually weren't so focused on one thing, so they branched out more.
>>44722768
Yeah, I know how that feels.
>>44726995
Agreed, I'm >>44722605
>>44727743
You're welcome.
>>44727944
I know that, anon. However, my time is taken by real life, not your aversion for click sounds.
And please don't offend the donuts, they're delicious.
>>44728070
I can get that, but this level of meaning one thing and writing another is practically freudian. His unconscious is trying to sabotage him.
Guys, I think Mcneill is a closet catholic.
>>44728320
Being psychic means he also can correct anyone's thinking, erase their objections against his actions, and never having to actually argue or consider the feelings of others.
If this was presented at the story, it would give a whole other perspective to Emprah's dialogue and character.
Extrapolating further, the primarchs could be the very first individuals which the Empreror had to rely to, but couldn't boss around with psychic persuasion.
Does that makes sense?
Also >>44728495 adds a great insight on Big E and crowds X individuals.
>>44728589
The irony runs strong on this one.
>>44729744
The whole idea of "the Emperor is such an autist because he just mindrapes everyone into licking his arse anyways" is actually both interesting, and perfectly in line with 40k's dark cynicism. Such a shame that they don't actually take that route.
>>44728529
Most perpetuals seemed to just try and live their life, and as far as I can glean, in some cases tried to actively forget their past experiences.
I hate the perpetual shit though. It makes the Emperor less special, and for what? A few side characters that barely impact the lore and will never show up again. Even the Grey Knight perpetual - the only one in modern 40k that we know of - has gone missing.
Should've just kept the old Sensei ideas.
>>44732868
>Should've just kept the old Sensei ideas.
So much this.
We already had badass highlanders running around 40k fucking shit up and defying the gods.
>>44732868
>the only one in modern 40k that we know of - has gone missing
He hasn't gone missing.
He is mentioned in the recent Sanctus Reach novels featuring the Grey Knights. Ku'Gath still holds a grudge against him.
Anyways, Alivia Sureka is an interesting Perpetuals due to her close relationship with the Emperor and her past with him. She appeared in "Vengeful Spirit" and "Wolf Mother". She is heading to Terra to meet up with Malcador and the Emperor.
Thanks to her inclusion into the story we finally know the dark secret behind the Emperor's powers.
>>44732948
And they could do pretty damn well for themselves, and if you wanted you could make your own Sensei and forge a narrative about a superhuman figure.
All the Perpetuals really do is take that, throw away the Emperor bits, and tie it to an alien cabal. Oh and Vulkan gets it to for some fucking reason where all the other kiddos didn't, when the Emperor had planned to raise all his primarch-sons himself and not have them be tainted Chaos energies on a journey through the Warp as babies. The Emperor should just do things without any fucking logic, of course - don't even try to wink and go on about mysteries, he's just a dumbass.
>>44733027
I cannot accept the 'Emperor got his powers from daemons' bullshit. I'm sorry that makes me an autistic faggot to get so worked up about lore, but goddamn, if that isn't the stupidest shit to try and make Chaos not really the evil guys.
>>44711937
I have it own my google drive
>>44733834
Post a link, anon
>>44730626
>interesting
Yeah no.
titties
>>44733122
Old E dog isn't a good guy dude.
