>>44614087
It's been quite a long time since I've drafted anything but the first set of a block, so my question is, once Oath is released, what amount of each pack will be drafted and is there a specific order that they must be drafted in?

>>44615079
Starting with Oath (since this is the first block with the new two-set setup), the draft format will be two packs of the "newer" small set, and then one pack of the original set. So right now we draft BFZ BFZ BFZ, but when Oath comes out, the recommended draft format is OGW OGW BFZ.

>>44615079
>>44615386
Keep in mind, that's how drafts will go at pro-level events - but if your shop wants to do BFZ BFZ OGW, or OGW BFZ OGW, or whatever, it's fine. The only rule is that everyone has the same amount the same product.

>>44615453
Everyone has the same product and drafts in the same order. You can do BFZ OGW BFZ, so long as everyone has two BFZ and one OGW pack, and they all draft in that order.

Now, that's just for sanctioned events, of course. If you and 7 friends want to do a draft with 24 random-ass packs across the 8 of you, go for it. Chaos Drafts are fun.

>>44614087
What do you think about the recent bannings of the Judgecast judges?

>>44615601
It's not really something I want to comment on publicly. I know it's a cop-out answer, but still.

>>44615614
>publicy

No one knows your real name here. So?

>>44615640
You'd be surprised.

>>44615647
Are you still a judge or did you get banned, too?

I'm a little confused about layers and copying.
1. Blood moon makes all non-basics mountains.
>do my taplands still come into play tapped?
>vesuva copies a cavern, then gets blood mooned. When moon dies, does it become a cavern or a blank vesuva?
>do my bouncelands still bounce a land?
>why are they considered non-basics lands still?(I think I remember this?)
2. Exarch/splinter twin.
> if I hit exarch with a twisted image before I go off, do the copies become 4/1 or 1/4? What about if I giant growth it?

>>44614087
WHY DID THEY HAVE TO KILL THE ELDRAZI
WHYYYYYYYYY

>>44615674
Nah, it was (as far as I can tell) entirely judges in the Southeast.

>>44615700
>1
Yes, taplands still enter tapped.

Vesuva will come in as a copy of Cavern, and you will name a type for it. If Moon leaves the board later, The Vesuva!Cavern "turns on" again.

Karoos will enter tapped, but not bounce a land

Because they're granted the Mountain subtype, but not the Basic supertype. Same reason Tunda and Stomping Ground aren't basic despite having "basic" subtypes.

>2
1/4 in both cases. Copy effects don't pick up alterations from later layers.

>>44615755
Because they made them lose indestructibility.

And then they got shuffled back into the library. :^)

>>44615801
Thanks! Can you explain why those things happen?

>>44615801
Seems like it. There's also half an episode of Judgecast about it.

Anway, have you embraced Judge Tower yet?

>>44615847
The first two are simple; the replacement effects that modify HOW those lands enter the battlefield apply before the land actually enters the battlefield. They change HOW it comes down, and Blood Moon doesn't work until they're actually on board.

The Karoos don't bounce anything because that's an ETB trigger that doesn't exist once they're on board, because they're just Mountains now.

Copy effects don't pick up alterations because Copy Effects work in layer 1. They copy the card as it exists in layer 1, which is before any of those changes. The only "Changes" a copy effect can copy are those made by OTHER copy effects. Example: I use Phyrexian Metamorph to copy Runeclaw Bear. You use Clone to copy my MetaBear. Your CloneBear is an Artifact Creature - Bear just like my MetaBear, because "is also an artifact" is part of Metamorph's copy effect.

>>44615860
I haven't gotten a chance to listen to the new Judgecast episode, sadly. I've been really busy with personal stuff the past month or so, though I have been talking to Turner and a few others since the banhammer came down.

I don't really Judge's Tower because literally nobody in my playgroup would manage to get through a game without re-enacting a few Oog scenes from ATHF.

>>44615847
the short answer is "layers and dependancies". The long answer could fill an entire thread.

>>44615943
So you popped in to say, "because, lol"?
Way to be a faggot.

>>44616055
Eh, it's not a terrible explanation for most people.

The vast majority of people who play Magic neither need nor want to know the exact reason that certain layers things work the way they do. Of the remainder, plenty are happy just understanding that "it's a layers thing" and moving on.

>>44614087

so how about that mana drain, trev dev bo bev?

: 3

>>44616224
You say that like I got one. I'm not an L3!

That said, I think it's neat. I can see a lot of them getting windmill slammed into a Judge's cube, or EDH deck, or maybe a Judge's Tower. I can see a lot getting maybe framed in something nice with that neat Christmas card, and I can see a good chunk getting offloaded to vendors as a nice way to assuage the post-Christmas bleeding in a few wallets.

>>44616279

i know, i know. you're ONLY an l2.

also i'm feeling better now. we can chat about non-depressing things if you wanna mention the bae now.

>>44616279
Ehh. Mana Drain is not a card for Judge Tower.

We've got artifact enchantments, land creatures, enchantment creatures etc.
Do you think we'll get any new type combinations or have all valid ones been used?

>>44616515
I think any of the currently unused ones would be things that require the right set. I could potentially see Enchantment Lands in the same vein as Artifact Lands, but we'd need like... Return to Theros, or some other enchantment-heavy set for it.

>>44616554
They could make planeswalkers that are also artifacts/enchantments/lands.
I mean, how is Karn not an artifact?

>>44616592
Probably because they don't want someone to be able to take out a Planeswalker with a Disenchant.

>>44616592
How is Ajani not a cat?

So I attacked with my Prime Time, I paused for about half a second, my opponent said "block" with a token of his, I said "I'm going to get my lands first." my opponent called a judge on me[?], and said that I missed my trigger. I said that it was literally half a second after I turned my prime time sideways before he leaped in and blocked. I didn't verbally pass priority. The level 2 judge said that because "a blocker has been declared" it was too late and I didn't get my lands.

So now I immediately say "TRIGGER" whenever I attack, but seriously, does pausing for just a moment count as passing priority?

>>44616618
Stupid balance, ruining the flavour...

Alright, real question:
When they change a rule or introduce a new symbol like the <>, do you guys get like a heads-up or briefing or are you just expected to keep yourself updated

>>44616619
This is a game where it takes two soldiers to fight a housecat, and one of them will die doing so.

This is a game where strapping three broadswords and a warhammer to a parrot is a viable tactic.

This is a game where 15 doves can kill an interdimensional horror from before our concept of time.

Try not to worry too much about the fluff.

>>44616652
Nope. I could see a LONG pause being seen as you attempting to bait a response before deciding what to do, but that trigger isn't considered to be missed until you take an action (or allow your opponent to take an action) that legally could not have happened with that trigger still on the stack. Your opponent can't just force the game to move ahead by yelling "I BLOCK WITH THIS TOKEN" before you can announce the trigger.

>>44616619
How are all planeswalkers not creatures?

>>44616709
>do you guys get a heads-up or briefing
hahahahahahahaha

>>44616712
>This is a game where 15 doves can kill an interdimensional horror from before our concept of time.
Hey, they just kill the hand in the pond, not the horror itself. Jeez, does nobody listen to Ugin?

>>44616757
Fine.

This is a game where a fourth-dimensional interstellar horror from before our concept of time can be even temporarily swayed from murdering you by throwing a bird at it.

>>44616709
But yeah, no, to answer you seriously: not generally.

Some judges get a bit of a "heads up" because Tabak will farm out for some help writing the FAQ for the new mechanics, and sometimes we get spoiler cards ahead of time to write articles about officially (my Rules Blog has gotten a few!), but generally the Program as a whole is as in-the-dark as the average player. We don't get any advanced heads-up on the whole.

>>44616757
Nah, pretty sure fifteen doves can do it if A Really Big Fire can take out two at once, permanently.
Gotta drag the rest of the body in by the hand first though, THEN sic fifteen doves on it.

>>44616800
What do you think of the new mana symbol?

>>44616833
You're underestimating the destruction a powerful pyromancer can cause

>>44616839
I was iffy on it at first, but it's grown on me. I don't think MANY people had problems mixing up "generic mana" in costs with "colorless mana", but I do think it enables an interesting chunk of design space that wasn't there before, and I know of at least 2 people in my personal playgroup who will be able to either build or FINISH building Eldrazi EDH decks thanks to Wastes.

>>44616800
You have a rules blog? Link?

>>44616905
It's not so much that I personally have one. I'm a group member on a Judge Project (little side things we do), which is a Rules Tip blog. We try to do 4 rules tips and one Tournament/policy tip every week, usually questions we gather from all over.

http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/

>>44616929
Nathan?

If I manifest a card that has delve, will I still be able to delve to flip it or do I have to tap the full cost to flip it as normal?

>>44616983
Nah, I'm not Natedogg. He's too busy being NetRep for various places that stop existing later on!

And yeah, linking gA to who I actually am has been done before. I'm not quite SECRETIVE with who I am, but I also choose not to advertise it. That said, you can probably figure it out by process of elimination eventually.

>>44617005
Delve only helps pay for casting it as a spell. When you flip it face-up, you aren't casting anything, so Delve won't help.

>>44614087
How would Eye of Ugin interact with eldrazi spells that cost, says, 1<>? would it be free to play or would I have to pay just the <>?

If i play casualy with a couple friends what do we do in situations where someone would call a judge?

>>44617033
Thanks for the speedy response, guess its back to the drawing board with my delve deck

>>44617180
I'd have to wait for the actual Gatherer update to answer that for you. My guess is that Eye only reduces generic costs, not colorless symbols, so you'd still have to pay C.

>>44617228
You could try finding the answer online. Barring that, just kinda come to an agreement on how you'll handle that situation today, and remember to look into the "proper" answer later.

>>44617180
You'd have to pay C because cost reduces only reduce what they state they reduce - and Eye reduces generic costs, not C costs (unlike, say, Edgewalker, which reduces W costs and B costs)

>>44617228
Everyone make an educated guess and then roll a dice to see who is right.
Check the rules later when you aren't playing anymore.

What rule has caused you the biggest headache since you've been a judge?

>>44617279
>>44617288
Thank you for the responses, since I wasn't sure on the ruling I figured that'd be the case. Still wanted to confirm.

>>44617306
Like, a specific rule in the CR, or a ruling/card/situation?

>>44617344
Um... Yes?
I was thinking something that you've had to deal with a lot or has caused a lot of problems

Is there a specific reason you can't mix checklist cards and doublesided ones?

What's the weirdest rules misunderstanding you ever saw/heard of?

If I play with the top card of my library revealed and I have to exile my library face down, does my opponent get to know what's in it?

>>44617391
I can't really think of any specific RULE that's caused me issues. Mostly policy stuff.

>>44617391
I don't really know off-hand, but I'd guess it's to prevent people from either trying to game it (4 real cards and 1 checklist to be 'maining' 5, for example) or to keep people from trying to make checklists "stand in" as one card or another depending on the game. Or just consistency.

>>44617420
Probably someone thinking they could force their opponent to concede via Mindslaver.

>>44617462
What exactly do you mean by "exile library face down"? Are you exiling cards one at a time?

With the new kozilek, if i discard endless one, the x in its cc counts for 0 right?
if it was 0, would it be able to counter alternate casting costs like FoW or only 0 cmcs like pacts

>>44617462
Now that's an interesting question. I'd say no because exiling isn't the same as drawing a card - which doesn't simultaneously happen but one card after the other.

>>44617500
There's a new Levelerdrazi who exiles the library face down as an ETB and replaces it with the shuffled graveyard.

>>44617500
I'm thinking of the spoiled eldrazi with
"
When Inverter of Truth enters the battlefield, exile all cards from your library face down, then shuffle all cards from your graveyard into your library."

>>44617466
Can you not force someone to concede with mindslaver?

>>44617524
X=0 everywhere but the stack.

New Kozilek has you ditch a card with CMC of X to counter a spell with CMC of X. CMC is not "how much you paid for the spell", so you'd need to ditch a CMC 5 card to hit a Force of Will, regardless of how they cast it.

The Pacts actually have a 0 CMC though, so ditching Endless One would work.

>>44617545
The way that's worded, I'd guess you exile your whole library at once, then shuffle your graveyard back in. So there'd be a "top card" before the trigger, and a "top card" once you switch your graveyard into your library.

>>44617560
Nope.

>>44617577
>The way that's worded, I'd guess you exile your whole library at once, then shuffle your graveyard back in. So there'd be a "top card" before the trigger, and a "top card" once you switch your graveyard into your library.
Mind you, that's not the official translation, I think. The spoiled card wasn't english

>>44617577
Thats what i thought thanks
I was hoping i could just toss endless ones to save koz from anything, but they wouldnt give us something that good

>>44614087
I know you said you don't want to weigh in on it, but would you mind telling me what actually HAPPENED re: judge bannings?
I've seen a lot of responses but I'm still totally hazy on what actually went down.
Not asking for opinions, just the events.

>>44617672
http://judgecast.com/?p=921

Directly from the banned horses' mouth.

Just a couple of questions about Leonin Arbiter.
When the opponent does something that requires them to search and I control an arbiter, I am not required to announce anything or remind them they will need to pay or else they are unable to search because it is a static ability. Is that a correct assumption? Of course at FNM or casuals, I would but speaking competitively.

Also a second one as a judge, how would you consider a situation like this.
Player A has an arbiter in play.
Player B uses a fetchland, does not pay 2 and passes priority.
Player A says. "Okay" with no response and the intention of passing back priority thus the fetchland resolves.
Player B then begins to search assuming Player A's "Okay" meant he could search regardless of whether he paid the 2 or not.
If a judge were called into this situation, would the word of the player have precedent over the board state or not? Sounds kinda confusing but I hope it makes sense.

>>44617894
Player B commited an illegal action. A needs to tell them to stop and probably call a judge. In most cases the game state will be rewound up until the illegal action (searching the library) unless they find some reason to suspect cheating.

Player A does not have a requirement to tell his opponent about arbiter's ability unless asked.

>>44617894
Leonin Arbiter's rules text is considered "Derived" Information - your opponent can ask you about it, and you aren't allowed to lie if asked, but you are allowed to say nothing. If he sacs his fetchland and you both pass priority, he cannot search his deck and if he does he's committed a GRV penalty.

at FNM, derived information is considered "Free" Information, and you have to tell your opponent if he asks. And if you don't, he can call a judge to get the answer from you.

>>44618035
>>44618109
Thanks for the answers duders.

>>44617894
You don't really need to remind them until they go to begin a search.

>Situation
I'd probably rule that the "okay" here was Player A allowing the activation to resolve. Player B's assumption that Player A can 'allow' the search regardless of the 2 mana is incorrect.

However I rule, I would recommend to both players that they more clearly communicate from that point on.

Also, I'm gonna be calling it a night for now. I'll probably check the thread again in the morning to see if it's up and there's outstanding questions to answer; failing that, I'll try to have another thread tomorrow evening.

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>>44618311
Thanks for the thread gA. I'd been wondering if I should make an AAJ thread or something since it's been ages since we had one.

Pic sorta kinda related, cracked it last week.

>>44614087
If I used zedruu's ability to give control of a creature I stole with a spell like act of treason would the player i gifted the card keep it or would the original player get their card back?

>>44618500
The gifted player will keep it. When Act of Treason's control changing ability wears off at end of turn, the game looks to see who should control it - and sees there's another "change control effect" that's still active. So it hands the reins back to that player, and play continues as normal.

>>44618576
ok i asked a judge at the lgs and looked into the rules myself but i didnt see any decks working around it so i doubted that it would work.

>>44618618
It works basically like this: when you have multiple "change control" effects on the same card, whichever one is most recent wins. so if I Act of Treason your dude, then gift it with zedruu, zedruu's effect is more recent so it "wins" - and when act of treason wears off, it's still applying.

This can also work with bazaar trader, and is a fairly common occurrence in commander. Steal a creature, then use bazaar trader to gain control of it - when the threaten effect wears off, bazaar trader's "gain control" ability still is in effect so you keep the creature forever.

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>>44614087
If pic related is part of the board-state, how do I know if I'm making legal moves?

>>44618833
I would rule that YAAV's "everyone's top card is revealed" overrides psychic network's "reveal to all other players" so your top card is revealed and in play.

>>44618833
Ask your opponents yes or no questions about the card on your head, of course.

I'm an L0 judging my first event (Thursday night Modern) tomorrow, any tips?

>>44618940
Frankie, pls.

If I take control of an opponent's creature with Merieke Ri Berit an opponent can still retake control of the creature with a "gain control of target creature" spell, right?

Or does the "control that creature as long as Merieke remains tapped" trump that?

>>44618960
DQ someone for having non-regulation card sleeves.

>>44618960
I assume you're only going to be a floor judge, and not the head judge, but in any case here are some pointers.

-- Stay calm. A lot of times judging can be hectic, and you've got a lot going on all at once. Take a breath when you can, it'll help a lot.

--Stay Clear. When someone needs you, you'll know it. Until then, don't butt in on things. A casual walk around some of the tables is fine, but don't barge in on a gamestate that looks off unless it's brought to your attention.

--Be Sure. When you issue a ruling, be able to explain WHY the ruling is that way. If you're not sure about the ruling, bring in the head judge. It's better to be slow and get it right, then make a snap judgment that's wrong - the player getting screwed won't like it, and you'll hate yourself much worse.

--Stay hydrated. No you won't think about it. Yes you'll regret it. Trust me.

>>44618980
an opponent can retake control with an effect, because it's more recent. However, as soon as merieke untaps or leaves play, her "destroy that creature" ability will trigger and kill it, even if you no longer control it.

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>>44618938
Next Question: If I Consign to Dreams a Yet Another Æther Vortex, will it keep itself in play?

>>44619191
only if there's another effect keeping it revealed. all cards in your deck are facedown by default, so YAAV will be turned face down when it's sent to the top of your deck. HOWEVER if another effect reveals the top card, it will be considered "in play" by its own ability - until you draw it.

Where is my wallet???

>>44619275
4x expedition wasteland isn't gonna buy itself, bro. Sorry bout that.

>>44619377
Ur not a judge tho, u don't know that

Need help here.

> Been playing a budget infect deck
> Have glistener elf equipped with livewire lash
> Opponent with RG Tron deck with 8 poision counters
> Cast giant growth on glistener
> Lashwire Lash triggers with 2 dmg from glistener elf
> Opponent cast that spell with overload, that 1 dmg to all my creatures.
> Resolves and elf dies first.
>Opponent says since elf is dead, the 2 dmg from livewire lash have no infect because the elf is dead.
> Many players said opponent was right so i let it be.
> Next turn he cast /emrakul and keks my permanents.

Did I fuck it up?

>>44619219
This won't work. The YAAV revealed won't be in play because there is no effect on the battlefield that says it's in play.

>>44620280
If an effect would deal damage based on a creature that died, the effect looks at that thing as it was before it died. They would get 2 poison counters.

I have tymaret, the murder king.

Can I sacrifice him to his own ability and target himself with that same ability?

>>44620309

Damn those fuckers lied to me.
I started playing Magic since december (went to modern format since my brother play it and gave me some cards to build a green infect deck) so I dont know all the ruling from all mechanics (there are lot of them). Couldnt ask my brother since he was not playing today.

>>44620355
No. The second ability can only be activated from the graveyard.

There's even a ruling on Gatherer stating this.

>9/15/2013 Tymaret’s last ability can be activated only if Tymaret is in your graveyard. Notably, Tymaret can’t be sacrificed to return itself.

>>44620280
>>44620380
if its like a sanctioned tournament just call the judge, its not considered impolite unless the guys a dick wanting to cheat you

>>44620380
Here's the relevant rulings if you need them in the future:

>702.89d If a permanent leaves the battl
efield before an effect causes it to deal damage, its last
known information is used to determine whether it had infect.
>702.89e The infect rules function no matter what zone an object with infect deals damage from

>>44620402

Can I just talk to the LGS about they did and give me the prize for it or I'm just fucked and they got away with it? (the tournament ended like 4 hours ago and I could have make it to 1st place).

>>44620436
kinda fucked at this point, just always make sure to call a judge if there's a rules thing you dont understand

>>44616883
Speaking of the new mana symbol, does this theoretically mean they can print, say, Mana Confluence to say "t: add (1) to your mana pool, take a damage"?

If I have Vesuva copy a basic island will it still be affected by Blood Moon?

If my mono blue tron homie has a Chalice of the Void on 0, and I later get a Hive Mind on board. Do both copies of a pact get countered? And does the opponent need to pay the cost in their upkeep for their copy as per normal?

Thanks

>>44621820
Chalice fires off regardless of who cast the spell, so it'll trigger for spells he casts.

That said, he's not casting shit off of Hive Mind. Hive Mind just makes a copy of the spell on the stack under his control. It wasn't "cast", so it won't trigger Hive Mind, so only yours gets Chalice'd. And a countered Pact never resolved, so there's no delayed trigger to worry about.

>>44621452
Nope! It'll still enter tapped, but it's entering as a copy of a basic land, so Blood Moon doesn't apply to it by layer 4.

>>44621379
No, because colorless still isn't a color.

>>44623256
sup gA. the closest LGS (still 20 miles away) has been running modern only FNMs because standard is "too expensive" right now. I'm not the best at the format, but my mardu tempo deck has steamrolled everyone the past 4 weeks thanks to me knowing how to pilot, scouting the room for SB calls, and generally not being shit at magic. This last friday after another 4-0, I get pulled over by the TO and asked if I could "skip" this friday, so the other players "could get a chance to have fun". I was told unilaterally that I wasn't BANNED from the shop, but they very much hope I'll "respect the other players" by not playing in those events anymore.

Is there anything they can do to me if I show up? Is there anything I can do to them if they throw me out?

>>44624203
Have you considered just...not going?

>>44624268
well I play mtg so I have no other social life to speak of :^)

in all seriousness, I just don't get why playing a Tier2 deck well and getting lucky against infect a few times is grounds to just arbitrarily say "pls go and stay go" and I can't help but wonder if they're allowed to do that.

>>44624311
Have you talked to the TO about that? Because even if you're allowed to keep going, do you really want to sour your relationship with them like that? Maybe go and play in some more casual formats for a bit, then talk to them about it?

Question about Iona's ability (when coming into play I get to choose a color that opponents cannot any longer cast spells of)

If I play her and choose blue, and then play another Iona (for which I pick red), sending the first one to the graveyard because she's legendary, does the initial ban on blue spells still count? Does her ability persist even after going to the graveyard? I assume yes.

>>44624613
Why would you assume that?

>>44624644
Because it doesn't say anything to the effect of "so long as Iona is in play" or "unless Iona is removed from the game"

>>44624659
Card abilities only function while the card is in play, unless the card specifically says otherwise.

>>44624659
Abilities of permanents only function on the battlefield unless stated otherwise, so this effect ends.
Look at it this way: If you had a creature that said "At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life", would that continue after it left?
Its no different for Iona.

>>44624659
Why would it? If you have an enchantment with 'Creatures you control have +1/+1' do you assume it sticks around if the enchantment is destroyed?

Those abilities are only relevant as long as a card is on the battlefield unless it explicitly mentions another zone.

>>44624681
>>44624686
>>44624689
Wow, that was pretty thick-headed of me. Thanks.

>>44624371
The TO was the one who pulled me aside. As for "playing casual formats", this shop doesn't have any - I'm one of maybe 3 guys who have commander decks, and they only ever run modern FNM, never anything else.

I just don't know what to do, considering the next closest shop is 50 miles away and I'm not about that life.

>>44614087
I have a lot of questions that are probably common sense, but I'll have to remember them all first.

How do cards like hangarback walker and endless one work in terms of CMC? Can I use Yisan the Wanderer Bard with 5 counters on it to pull a 5/5 endless one from the deck. How about a mycosynth golem giving affinity to hangarback - does that mean I can assume a CMC of all my artifacts (divided by two) even before paying any additional mana?

>>44624771
When hangarback and endless one are anywhere EXCEPT the stack (have been cast, waiting to resolve) their converted mana cost is 0. Yisan will not be able to fetch either of them unless you can activate his ability without putting on a verse counter.

With mycosynth golem, it's a bit different, since affinity is a cost reduction. I'll get to that next post.

>>44624771
Okay, so Hangarback costs XX to cast - you choose a value for X at the time you cast it, then when you get around to needing to pay for it, affinity will factor in.

Affinity is a cost reducing ability. When these are involved, you take the base mana cost (in this case double whatever value you stated for X), add any cost increases, then subtract any cost reductions, then if Trinishpere is in play, you factor that in.

In practice, say you have 10 artifacts in play, one of them is mycosynth golem. You cast hangarback - if you announce that X is 5, then HBW will cost 10, +0 since nothing's increasing the cost, then -10 for affinity. You won't have to pay any extra mana. If you announce X=6, you'll need 2 mana (since it's 12, lowered by 10 to get 2).

But again, keep in mind. While you're casting it, Hangarback has a converted mana cost of 10, or 12, or whatever is twice the value of X. But if it's in your hand, in your deck, in your graveyard, exiled or even just in play, its CMC is zero.

>>44624709
For further reference, whenever a card references itself in its rules text that text only applies to that one card, not all cards with that name. If you had mirror gallery and landed two Iona's on two different colors, one of those color blocks turns off when the iona you named it on dies even though there is still another iona in play.

>>44624800
>>44624875
Okay, I wasn't sure about the CMC off of the stack thing, but I get it now, and the affinity part makes sense. Thanks anon

Q: Can I use convoke with ANY creature to pay for grey mana costs, or does it have to be a devoid creature?

I know I have to reveal all morphs etc. when the game ends, but does the same go for cards exiled face-down

>>44625014
colorless isn't a color, so probably not. BUT convoke might be errata'd to have the creature tap for {C} or one of its colors. So we don't know for sure.

>>44625882
Nope! The reason you have to reveal face-down morphs at the end of the game is to prove it was legal to play them face-down. Shit that's exiled face down doesn't have any kind of requirements, so you don't need to prove jack shit.

>>44626192
>The reason you have to reveal face-down morphs at the end of the game is to prove it was legal to play them face-down
you have to do that with manifest too, though. And every card in your deck can be manifested.

>>44615822
Thats only the old Eldrazi Titans, the ones in this block never had that trigger.

>>44616554
R&D is really (in my mind, overly) cautious about enchantment lands. This is because of what the artifact lands did.

>>44626405
Well, a free constellation trigger would be pretty powerful.

>>44614087
If you are not the head judge at an event, what is the percent of times that your rulings get appealed?

>>44626234
That's why you're required to keep clear which cards are morphed, which are manifested, and the order in which they all came in.

>>44626480
not gA, but I'd say from my experience they appeal to a head judge about 10% of the time. Of that 10%, about a quarter of a third of them get reversed.

What types of things are expected of judges? Not taking bribes is obvious. I know they are supposed to try disregard how experienced a player is when making a ruling.

>>44628106
> I know they are supposed to try disregard how experienced a player is when making a ruling.

I'm not sure what you're implying by this. An experienced player can make mistakes (or be flat-out wrong about things) just as easily as someone who just started today.

A judge is expected to make sure everyone follows the rules, and answer any questions that may arise regarding those rules.

>>44625014
>Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for (1) or one mana of that creature's color.)
This is what Convoke says on the cards. (1) is just the old way of saying <> so it may be used for either a colorless mana or a mana of the creature's color.
At least that is the only way I can see it work, but I'm no judge.

>>44630868
It's reducing the cost rather than adding mana though.
You're reducing the generic cost, which has nothing to do with colorless mana.
>>44625014
Nothing changes mechanically with the colorless update. Nothing at all. The only thing that actually changes is a visual update to the colorless mana symbol to make it visually distinct from the generic mana cost symbol (instead of being identical.)
You do not need to tap a colorless creature, a devoid creature, or a creature that costs C when tapping creatures for Convoke.

Remember, when the question of 'does X change?' comes up with colorless mana, the answer is 'no'

>>44630945
>It's reducing the cost rather than adding mana though.
Convoke does not reduce the spell's cost since whatever it was, M15(?) where they reprinted it. It's now like delve - convoke provides an alternate payment rather than a cost reduction. So it gets around effects like Trinisphere, which it would not have previously.

And I'm back

>>44632561
sweet

>>44616712
>This is a game where it takes two soldiers to fight a housecat, and one of them will die doing so.

It's a very nimble house cat. It probably sneaks up on one of them and slits his throat or something.

>>44634999
Does anyone have the relevant screencap?

>>44632561

When you have an effect that triggers "whenever a player draws a card" or "whenever a player discards a card", and another effect causes a player to draw or discard more than one card, do you get that many triggers, or is it just one event?

In the same vein if there is a trigger "whenever a player gains life" and an effect causes a player to gain more than 1 life, do you get that many triggers?

>>44635074

no, but now i want to see it.

>>44635209
For draws and discards, it'd trigger per thing drawn or discarded, respectively.

For "whenever a player gains life", gaining 50 life is not gaining 1 life 50 times, it is gaining 50 life once. That's one event, so one trigger. That's why things like Ageless Entity specifically call out "that many".

>>44635343

Ah I see, I suppose they made it work differently for life gain because the numbers are naturally higher than draw or discard?

>>44635452
Nah, it's in the wording. "Whenever you draw a card" + "draw 3 cards" = you drew 3 cards.

"Whenever you draw CARDS" would only trigger once, hypothetically, no matter the amount. Similarly, "Whenever you gain life" sees ONE life gain event, no matter how much it gained.

>>44635495
(Also, drawing multiple cards is explicitly called out to be treated as multiple actions of "draw 1 card" by the rules. Not sure why discard works the same when nothing else does. I'll look into it)

>>44635495
>>44635508

Gotcha thanks

Another question:

State based actions don't occur until after an effect is finished resolving right?

So if I have a psychosis crawler out and cast wheel of fortune, it won't die when i discard my hand because state based actions won't be checked until I draw my new 7 cards?

>>44635562
SBAs are never ever ever checked DURING the resolution of an effect. Psychosis Crawler will briefly be a 0/0 during pretty much every wheel effect, but as long as you have cards in hand once the effect is resolved, you're fine.

>>44635578
Let's say I'm playing an eight player game and play Second Sunrise.
Due to a hilarious sequence of events, four copies of Enchanted Evening, four copies of Mycosynth Lattice, four copies of March of the Machines, four Clones, four Opalessences, four Humilities, four Godheads of Awe, and four Starfields of Nyx happened to end up being played and put in each player's graveyard this turn (somehow)
What happens?

>>44636373
I laugh and leave to go get pizza.

>>44636373
>>44636439
The "real answer" is that when multiple permanents are put onto the battlefield simultaneously and there's some amount of timestamp nonsense going on, the active player chooses the timestamps. So basically, whoever's turn it is gets to choose how all of that ends up working.

Also, the Clones can't copy any of the stuff coming in alongside them.

>>44636463
So the answer is no longer 'punch the person playing opal/humility in the face'?
Damn.

>>44636502
Hey, violence isn't an L2 solution.

Withering stares and "tsk-tsk"s alongside a disappointed head shake is an L2 solution.

>>44636514
it's an L3 solution?

>>44636540
Nah, L3 solutions are more varied, since you get a superpower when you hit L3.

>>44636554
Do you know what your superpower will be in advance?

>>44636566
Pretty sure it's either a complete gamble, or some kind of anti-backwards thing where you get the exact opposite of what you want/hope for.

>>44636581
Is that why you haven't gone for L3 yet?

>>44636590
I haven't gone for L3 yet because I lack the characteristics of, and desire to become, an L3.

>>44614087
Hey galvanic, someone told me that the difference between Chromatic Sphere and Star is that sphere has to declare the colour of mana filtered before you draw the card, but star allows you to draw the card before declaring colour. Is that true?

Can a creature with exploit sac itself and still get the effect?

>>44636627
Well, the real difference is that Star has a trigger that draws you a card when it gets binned, and Sphere has a card draw built into the mana ability, which is a headache and a half.

But no, they work the same in THAT vein. On Sphere, you do the actions in the order listed- get mana, then draw. With Star, you sac it and the trigger goes on the stack, but mana abilities don't use the stack. They just instantly resolve, so you get your mana, and then when that trigger resolves you get your card.

>>44636765
Sure.

>>44636814
>Well, the real difference is that Star has a trigger that draws you a card when it gets binned, and Sphere has a card draw built into the mana ability, which is a headache and a half.
>But no, they work the same in THAT vein. On Sphere, you do the actions in the order listed- get mana, then draw. With Star, you sac it and the trigger goes on the stack, but mana abilities don't use the stack. They just instantly resolve, so you get your mana, and then when that trigger resolves you get your card.
Dang, so they're functionally identical except in the case of shatter or nature's claim or whatever?

>>44636913
And the fact that only one of them makes Panglacial Wurm more irritating than usual.

Hi. I have no question. Thanks to you and any other judges for the continued existence of these threads.

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>>44636934
>Panglacial Wurm
Dick status: muh
But for real, how does star/sphere do anything with panglacial wurm?

>>44637027
With Star, the "draw a card" trigger goes on the stack, but you get the mana right away. I could crack a fetchland, declare I'm casting Panglacial Wurm from my library, and pop the Star to pay for it, and THEN draw a card.

Now, what if that Wurm is the top card of my library? With Star, nothing. Same deal. I cast it, then draw the 'new' top card of my library once I'm done shuffling from the fetchland. But with Sphere? The card draw is PART of the mana ability. It happens instantly- doesn't go on the stack, can't be responded to, and because I'm casting a spell I can do it during the resolution of an ability that has me searching my library. TECHNICALLY speaking, I could draw the Wurm I'm attempting to cast.

Fuck. Panglacial. Wurm.

>>44637005
Well you're quite welcome! Thank you for the appreciation- it is appreciated.

>>44637027

Search your deck for whatever. Kill Sphere/Star during the search. Panglacial does its thing, when do you draw off Sphere?

If I have an Exquisite Blood and Karlov out, and an opponent gets hit by three goblins, is that three lifegain triggers for Karlov, or just one? In a similar vein, what about multiplayer extort and Exquisite Blood?

>>44637117
Combat Damage is treated as one event for those purposes. Your opponent lost 3 life once, rather than losing 1 life 3 times.

Extort is different, since that's 3 different opponents each losing 1 life, so you have 3 triggers gaining you 1 life each, and Karlov sees that.

Sup GA, if I control a Battlefield Thaumaturge and cast return to the ranks or some such X reanimator spell, do I get a cost reduction for targeting creatures in my graveyard?

>>44637213
No, because they aren't creatures.

When something says "Creature" or "artifact" or some other permanent type, and ONLY the type, it specifically means permanents. Thaumaturge doesn't cheapen Return to the Ranks for the same reason I can't Doom Blade your dead Tarmogoyf.

>>44637061
but GA, when casting a spell, the spell moves from wherever it is to the stack in step 601.2a, but costs aren't payed until 601.2f, you put a spell onto the stack, choose modes, thenm targets, then divide effects (where those apply) all before you determine and then pay costs.for spells.

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>>44637061
>>44637072
I see, I see. Panglacial Wurm sounds like a ridiculous card. Does its ability mean it essentially has flash? Can I crack a fetch and play the wurm on, like, upkeep or end step or something?

>>44637269
Effectively. The reason you can't normally cast non-instant, non-flash spells outside your own Main Phase isn't because the rules say you can't; it's because no rule says you CAN. The Magic rules are permissive, not restrictive. They define when you can cast spells.

The rules also get trumped when a card says otherwise, and when you're given permission by an effect to cast a spell during the resolution of a spell or ability, that overrides the normal "only during your main phase" permissions by giving you broader ones.

>>44637301
Excellent! brb, updating my omnath edh deck...

>>44637061
it doesn't matter. I had to look this up, but when you cast a spell, you (in order) move the card to the stack, choose modes, choose targets, divide any effects that need dividing, check the legality of targets, determine the cost of the spell and only then activate mana abilities. Panglacial Wurm in out of the library long before you even get a chance to sacrifice your chromatic whatever.

>>44637402
Eh, true. It's more the fuckery of having to keep your library in order while resolving the spell you're casting during the activation of an ability, and also drawing a card with a mana ability.

Does Yixlid Jailer stop */* creatures from having p/t in the graveyard?

>>44637918
Yep. They lose those abilities in layer 6, which is the layer before they matter.

>>44636607

How hard is it to become an L3? What do you have to do?

I was watching a game of the last modern SCG event and the amulet bloom player seemed to give multiple titans haste via a boros garrison and a slayers stronghold. He had 3 amulets on the field

I understand getting the 3 red and 3 white from the multiple amulet untap effects on the boros garrison but I'm not sure how he did the haste thing

I may have just no paid attention during that part. I fully understand getting all 4 titans on the field with 3 amulets and getting simic and tolaria west bouncing the west and with the 9 mana floating to transmute for the pact and use the remaining 6 for the next titan and continue but the haste part still has me confused

>>44639496
Boros garrison doesn't give haste, it's just a karoo. You're thinking of Slayers' Stronghold, which taps for haste and other stuff. I haven't watched the match, but I assume he was tapping to give haste, then bouncing the land, playing it again, and giving haste again.

>>44614087
I have Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder on the battlefield. I cast Mycoloth.
Can I devour the Thrull tokens?

Thx

>>44639496
Prime time puts two lands into play tapped when it comes into play, and again when it attacks. all 3 of his amulets trigger, giving his garrison and his stronghold 3 "untap this thing" triggers - he likely responded to each untap trigger by tapping the lands for the stronghold ability - that's how they all got haste.


>>44640434
Yep! Endrek Sahr triggers when you CAST the creature, as soon as it goes on the stack. The 5 thrulls will come into play before mycoloth even thinks about entering the battlefield, which is when you decide how many things to devour.

>>44639496
Boros Garrison : 3 untap trigger, and he's tapping it again for each trigger so he gets WWW RRR
Slayer's Stronghold : untap 3 times, he's tapping (and paying) it again for each trigger and targets another titan giving 3 titans +2/0 and haste.

>>44620280
How this works is this: Live wire lash triggers on your cast, going on the stack on top of groundswell.

He casts overload (which doesn't target).
Overload load resolves, elf dies to state based effects.
Live wire lash resolves, it looks at what it was last attached to (elf) and deals 2 infect.
Groundswell fizzles on resolution because invalid target.


In short. Your opponent is a dick and should be reminded of it.