>>44592401
>He's the werewolf guy. Pretty much the sole source of werewolf sneak peeks and hints and cool tidbits

I believe Chris is uniquely talented.

He can simultaneously be both the "Werewolf Guy" and the "Ephemeral Entities Guy." However, Stew might take issue with the former.

>>44592682
Stew is Apocalypse/Forsaken werewolf punk guy, think Chris is just Forsaken

>>44592522
>Let's talk about these tumblrs
>tumblrs
Let's not. Instead, tell me about your last game's BBEG or a memorable antagonist.

What Decree should my Mummy be?

He was a foreign barbarian chief in the time of Irem, conquered and brought into the fold; the worship of the Nameless Gods and their Judges came naturally to him, and he became something as a zealot, leading the armies of the Su-Menent.

I'm torn between Heart (for the wandering immortal warrior-poet, basically Conan as an Arisen) or Spirit (glorious undying warlord who needs to crusade upon every awakening).

A Deceived of The Dancer and a Deceived of The Keeper sharing a Chinese cult that believes in enlightenment through clarity of action without thought. Basically Zen berserkers in service to alien gods.

Hot or not?

What's the character concept you're sitting on and cannot currently play?

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>>44593018

VOLCANO PROMETHEAN

>>44592834
I have a BBEG. He is known as the First Sin I have the party believe that he is a descent demon. So far he has shown to be capable of using powers from other spalts. Using memento and awakening magic. Futhermore he has a unparalleled understanding of the flow of time.

>>44593018
Any Forsaken character at all.

I always run Forsaken, never play, since if our group does Forsaken it's expected I'll run it :p

>>44593138
What would you play if you could?

Working on Manifestations
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ctjKIkgbhgTNqASvQhA2zYRfNwwmmf4YGfRSoaLeU9U/edit#

>>44593138
I never get to play anything. Hopefully this vampire game a friend is planning goes through. It doesn't sound super interesting, but playing is playing.

Hopefully I can also wrangle my players for my Forsaken game.

>>44593138

Ah, the curse of the Storyteller; any game you love enough to obsess over is the one you're always stuck running.

Anyone else have friends and players who don't like the same gamelines you do? Shit sucks.

>>44593168
Probably a Bone Shadow of some sort.

>>44593018
Dreamwalker Thyrsus who focuses on using Life and Mind to live out some of his personal dreams.

Tempter Messenger who never does anything directly when there's a way to get someone else to do the job for him.

Other, less developed-ideas for a Fairest changeling, and an Unfleshed promethean, that I'm saving for more info on/release of their 2nd Editions

>>44593138
Aw I'm sorry to hear that man, I love Forsaken and I haven't been able to play it again in years but finally got a chance when 2e came out

You really helped make a great game

>>44593018
I'm playing it. Villainous Werewolf.

Literally nothing else I want to play.

>>44593312
You don't happen to have any advice for someone who wants to start home-brewing stuff to personalize their Forsaken games but feels like they won't do the game justice, do you?

I got no experience in game design but there's so many ideas.

>>44593954
I'd, uh, need a little bit more to go on to be able to give useful advice (also, about to sleep so expect delays in reply)

>>44594002
Just new tribes, lodges, mechanics, like your Lycaon guy. Not creating a new game or anything. Spicing up antagonists and characters both.

>>44592977

Which aspect matters more to the Arisen's identity, to the point where it would remain if all other parts of them were taken away? If it's the Warrior-Poet, it's Ab, if it's the Crusader, it's Ba. From your summary, though, I'd say choose Ba.

>>44592995

Sounds good to me! Just make sure they're both in the same Movement if you can, just so the squabbles are to a minimum. Unless you want that, of course.

>>44592682

Someone should tell Stew that we need more WoD cookbooks.

>>44594841
we really need that hunter book already, adapting the trigger-points shit for integrity is wonky and not too great.

>>44595023

Also true! I would also like a Hunter cookbook.

>>44592710
So, Chris the Forsaken?
One of the two gods of CofDg.
The other being Dave the Lizard.

>>44595477

Even ironically, don't start that kind of stuff up. It ends up looking pretty lame.

>>44595655
This entire thread is lame. We're talking about a western twilight roleplaying game while communicating on a Malaysian bee roasting board.

>>44593018
All of them?

I'd really like to remake my favorite Changeling character in 2e since I wouldn't have to Dual Kith to make him a Fairest Runnerswift, but that would require Changeling 2e to actually be available in some format.

>>44595893
I feel like bees wouldn't taste very good. They're way too hairy, and you can't exactly shave an insect. I'm pretty sure people do eat them, though, so I just don't know...

>>44597571
the hair burns off when you cook them

Anybody have a rough guide for how to use the Open Dev posts and things Dave has said here or elsewhere to do a rough version of Mage 2e?

>>44598264
Just wait a few weeks it sould be out soon. As said by dave.

>>44598264

Mage will be out by February, if I had to guess.

Looks like Secrets of the Covenants and the Pack are gearing up to go soon too.

>>44598493
Yeah. They are going pretty good. Probably a GenCon release.

Are there any PC splats that can use spirit numina? Can a spirit give mortal characters numina?

>>44599017
Maybe play a claimed?

>>44598357
>>44598449
>>44598264


I'm fairly certain Mage 2e will be out before February 2036, assuming WW isn't sold again.

More seriously, Dave has admitted to being very careful with his spoilers to prevent people from really using them to effectively play 2e before its release. The book will hopefully be out within weeks. I would just wait it out.

>>44599151
Like i said just wait a bit longer.

>>44599151
Damn man, its really coming out so soon? I guess I need to start trying to open my group(s) up to the idea

>>44599017
Purified.

Has anyone ever thought that Samaritan from Person of Interest is a God Machine Angel.

>>44599374
Person of Interest is listed as a source of inspiration for Demon. So probably.

>>44599431
Ture

WHERE THE FUCK IS THE DMON STORYTELLER'S GUIDE

>>44599834
won't be out for like 12 hours

>>44599431
Yes, in fact Brookshaw's big three ideas are all based on media he's enjoyed.

Person of Interest inspired Demon.
Misfits inspired Deviant.
And Krull inspired his next game pitch, Glaive.

>>44599897
Glaive?
Also, Dave isn't the one behind Demon. I don't even think Deviant was his pitch. Are you pulling my leg?

>>44599017
2e Werewolves.

You can use Totemic Empowerment to temporarily become Claimed by your pack's totem. At which point you can use its Numen (Presence+Wits I think).

>>44599922
Not at all, he talked about it during one of the threads, apparently your soul is bound with this magical weapon (you design)

It's a great movie

Rolled 5, 3 = 8 (2d6)

f

if it didn't have the potential to be so much like deviant I think I'd like a game like Agent, about being a member of a cult or conspiracy who has to do weird shit but could potentially turn against their group (though why would you do that?)

>>44600039
That doesn't really sound like it needs to be a splat. It's just the set up for a chronicle.

>>44593077
Have you figured out their Humor, Disquiet, Wasteland or Disfigurements yet?

>>44599897

>Glaive

Finally, a way to get Monte Cook to come back to WoD!

Actually, a 2016 version of Monte Cook's World of Darkness would probably be in the Cypher System. I wonder how that'd work out.

I know I'm basically a broken record at this point, but Werewolf players tell me about your packs.

What do the mortal members think they're doing? Where is your Territory? What kind of interaction do you have with other packs?

>>44600581
>I wonder how that'd work out.
Better than using D20, that's for sure.

>>44600591
>What do the mortal members think they're doing? Where is your Territory? What kind of interaction do you have with other packs?
We're open with our pack, mostly because our spirit insisted upon it. Our territory is a large area in West Virginia that isn't doing very well economically. We've only met one other pack (our territory is basically uncontested) and they're far away. We did not hit it off well though

>>44600783
What the fuck does any of the shit you're spouting have anything to do with the OP or /wodg/?

>>44600783
That's nice.

>>44600836
It doesn't. That same post is being posted in a whole bunch of completely unrelated threads.

>>44600836
He comes in and spams that in most threads every now and then.

I'm surprised it's been so long since it "graced" the CofDg

>>44600836
It's spam. Also, judging by the picture, it's a copypasta related to that guy who was banned from Magic for being a convicted rapist ten years ago, and Wizards prioritizing brand management.

>>44600832
Open how open?

>>44600848
We've seen it plenty. At least once a week.

>>44600869
>Open how open?
The wolf-blooded know everything, the humans know we're werewolves and we have to hunt and they have to keep it secret.

>>44600881
What is you Totem?

>>44600869
>We've seen it plenty. At least once a week.
Yeah. "Often" is every thread.

>>44600888
Forest of Faith, she's a magath. Sort of like a plant-woman nun. Basically a forest spirit that was finding less and less essence when the mining/logging was fucking up the trees, she retreated to a convent (now abandoned) and ended up soaking up a lot of faith essence and eventually becoming the keeper of its locus

ST offered to give us a little more power in our totem in exchange for some surprises, so we think she has another influence

>>44600967
>Forest of Faith, she's a magath.
Can I just tell you that this will prolly go horribly for you in the long run?

>>44600984
Magath aren't that bad
especially with a pack
problem is they fuck up the ecosystem cause they want to get essence but don't fit in with the other spirits eating essence
with a pack, we supply the essence, she isn't chaos on the ecosystem
(our last two totems were magaths in other games, one died for us)

its the third influence that might be the problem

there's no real ecosystem to fuck up nayways, all the big spirits and loci are now gone except a couple (big spirits who now greedily protect the last loci)

>>44601021
>Magath aren't that bad

Oooh. Horribly wrong! I wish I was there to see it!

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>>44593018
60-something (how do mortals DEAL with going face-first towards a fire, even one so small they can snuff it with a breath?) high-humanity Ventrue who works as a failed journalist for some shitty newspaper's culture section. I used to be a screenwriter, but getting Embraced messed up something making everything I henceforth produced look like Naruto fanfiction.

Basically, I wanted to make a Kindred whose Mask was incredibly mundane and whose "mortal" side was fairly unsatisfying. Not sure if the concept's sound in any way or the worst snowflake ever.
My touchstones are the last play I ever sold shortly after graduating college, my estranged wife who I wish I'd had the heart to embrace or ghoul - sometimes at least - and the older of our two daughters who still doesn't know.
>>44593208
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ctjKIkgbhgTNqASvQhA2zYRfNwwmmf4YGfRSoaLeU9U/edit#
Nice.
>>44593278
None of my friends play any kind of WoD right now.

>>44595477
>>44595655
>Gods
I really want to make some kinda-benevolent cults that revere Tier 5 or 6 spirits and act as frenemies to the party. Any ideas for those?

>>44601347
>Nice.
I really need to be more comfortable jumping around, instead of trying to do it in order. Werewolf stuff is getting in the way again, though.

>>44601347
>frustrated office worker ventrue
I would offer you a game.

Trying to make a character in DtD. Do I need to grapple an enemy in order to use Cavernous Maw?

>>44601373
I'd say doing it section-by-section is better than doing it in read order.
>>44601406
Very kind of you to say that.
>>44601416
>Trying to make a character in DtD. Do I need to grapple an enemy in order to use Cavernous Maw?
RAW, no, but in the light of the usual rules for similar actions it makes sense most STs would require you to on a resisting target.
>>44599924
>You can use Totemic Empowerment to temporarily become Claimed by your pack's totem. At which point you can use its Numen (Presence+Wits I think).
That must look scary as fuck to observe.

>>44601540
>I'd say doing it section-by-section is better than doing it in read order.
I mean that I need to be okay skipping from Passion Boneyard to doing Industrial Marionette powers, as opposed to Passion Boneyard to Phantasmal Boneyard to Primeval Boneyard.

http://theonyxpath.com/hurt-locker-psychic-vampires/

New minor template for Hurt Locker.

>>44601951
That's been floating around for a long time. What I'm confused about is where did he get all this extra space for Hurt Locker for when supposedly the full length of the book was contracted out over a year ago. Did he have a bunch of people flake out? Did we lose sections and they just haven't said anything yet?

>>44601566
>I mean that I need to be okay skipping from Passion Boneyard to doing Industrial Marionette powers, as opposed to Passion Boneyard to Phantasmal Boneyard to Primeval Boneyard.
Oh, right. Yes, that makes sense.
>>44602763
Chances are they hacked chase and crafting rules off of Hurt Locker and into CoDa at the last minute, then subsequently elected to splice these in. Would explain some things.
>>44601951
That's kind of cool, actually, though now I'm tempted to try and badly glue Second Sight powers onto this so Psychic Vamps can power such abilities with Ephemera.

>>44602869
>That's kind of cool, actually, though now I'm tempted to try and badly glue Second Sight powers onto this so Psychic Vamps can power such abilities with Ephemera.

That's a seriously good idea. A Psychic Vampire of a mystic bent who works out other things to do with the Ephemera. It's obviously supported already, what with the shapeshifting merit.

Also... Would the Coil of Zirnitra allow an Ordo vampire to take Psychic Vampire?

>>44603095
Personally, as an ST, I'd say no because fuck template stacking. But RAW, I don't see anything to prevent it and with the way they do Wolfbloods now and allow them to retain their template after taking on a big one it seems like there is a precedent.

>>44603250
If one wants to be truly technical about it, it's not a Template though, it's a merit chain.

>>44602869

Some of that happened. I contracted Hurt Locker before we knew there would be a Storytelling System Second Edition Rulebook (now the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook; which is to say, I've had to Control + F through the whole book twice to change book references) I also had a couple of people flake on their second drafts, and their first drafts weren't good enough that I could justify just cleaning them up and including them myself.

Also, I cut one of the minor templates because I just wasn't feeling it (the Cursed of Hachiko). I had some ideas for how to salvage it, but it was just way more trouble than it was worth; it would have been a fundamental restructuring from the ground up.

>>44603286
>merit chain
I think once you apply a powerstat you officially become a template.

>>44603250

If I had a player ask, I'd just tell them to knock themselves out. It's a lot of points for the payoff. They could do a lot more with those Experiences. So whatever.

>>44603300
>I also had a couple of people flake on their second drafts, and their first drafts weren't good enough that I could justify just cleaning them up and including them myself.

Was anymore of the cut material stuff you've already previewed? Like, for example, the Supernatural Merits?

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>>44593018
Mostly Unchained and Created. My favorite splats that I will never get to play...

A demon who fell for his animal companion. Has taken the cover of a homeless man in the city and is always followed by his faithful hound. Volunteers at local animal shelters regularly. I have kinda two concepts, one as an Inquisitor who has friends and contacts among the "street class" humans. Other homeless, small gangs, cabbies, food truck operators. That kind of thing. He keeps an ear out and one eye open that way, on the scenes that fly right under most of society's radar. Alternatively as a kind of tempter who just wants to live in the park and take in as many strays as possible.

Another Unchained who acts as a courier of sorts for his ring/agency. Accessing dead drops or tagging areas with coded graffiti. Has the cover of a colleged aged skater punk and runs around with an embedded skateboard and maybe a few other embedded/exploited gadgets (this would be the second character I've played with a specialty in expression for graffiti).

>>44593077
Kinda similar to this guy, but like a treeman promethean. Also totally want a robo promethean, because I love the AI wants to be human trope and being nanobots is cool as hell (I think Demon kinda does this a little better mechanically, though).

>I am not a robot, captcha.
>But I want to be...

>>44603463
>A demon who fell for his animal companion. Has taken the cover of a homeless man in the city and is always followed by his faithful hound. Volunteers at local animal shelters regularly. I have kinda two concepts, one as an Inquisitor who has friends and contacts among the "street class" humans. Other homeless, small gangs, cabbies, food truck operators. That kind of thing. He keeps an ear out and one eye open that way, on the scenes that fly right under most of society's radar. Alternatively as a kind of tempter who just wants to live in the park and take in as many strays as possible.
I love this idea. Why not give him a Patchwork Cover based on Altogether Andrews?

>>44603491
>Altogether Andrews
Never heard of him. Just googled, I never read Discworld, but it sounds like a pretty cool character. That being said I try to actively avoid basing my RPG characters on other fictional characters. At most, I might use them as a spring board or adopt one or two quirks into my character.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpaRouocBes
I just realized, this guy would be a dead ringer for one of the True Fae.
>"I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is."

>>44603704
Oh god... Most horrifying keeper ever.

>>44599924
>>44599092
Interesting

>>44599315
Is that like The Pure?

>>44605038
>Is that like The Pure?

Oh gods no.
It's humans who've managed to become immortal via internal alchemy. They've turned their mind and soul into a spirit, basically.

>>44605038
>Is that like The Pure?
No, they're mortals who've achieved immortality through occult power. They can separate their soul from their body, fly around the Shadow or in Twilight, and have access to Numina. If you kill them they just reform themselves in the Shadow.

Demon Storyteller Guide soon, Stalker. My hype knows no bounds!

>>44605129
I feel like this will change the way Demon is played on a fundamental level, not just enhance it like other STGs.

>>44605064
>>44605065
Oh. Neat. What's the source?

>>44605223

What makes you think that? So far all I know that's in it is crossover material and alternative settings. There's probably still a couple thousand words in there for running a Vanilla Demon game.

>>44605337

World of Darkness: Immortals. It's in Chapter 3.

>>44603250
>But RAW, I don't see anything to prevent it and with the way they do Wolfbloods now and allow them to retain their template after taking on a big one
So, like... should every Werewolf or most werewolves have a free Tell, or what?

>>44603300
>(the Cursed of Hachiko)
Good, because that was dumb, and I have no idea why a loyal loving dog would feel like cursing people who weren't loyal. People known for a nice thing don't murder people who aren't nice.

>>44605371
>People known for a nice thing don't murder people who aren't nice.

Santa?

>>44605392
Krampus does all the murdering.

>>44605371

Loyal loving dogs can get pretty pissed off when they're dead. Nice people becoming total asshole after tragedy or after death is horror's bread and butter. That said, never really felt the Cursed of Hachiko. I like the psychic vampires more.

>>44605433
Oh sure, and it's Superman who does all the saving people not Clark Kent, right?

>>44605371
>So, like... should every Werewolf or most werewolves have a free Tell, or what?
Werewolves lose their tell upon becomnig a werewolf, it says this in the book.
But they keep the tell if they become a vampire or mage or whatever

>>44605371
No wolfblooded say they keep only their one tell and none of the merits dots. Futhermore they call out werewolves as the exception for this so werewolves get nothing.

>>44605448

I don't know how this "Santa and Krampus are the same person" thing got started but I think I love it.

>>44605448
... Krampus isn't actually Santa, you know, right? I mean, they're two different characters. If anything it's Black Pete who's the Krampus.

>>44605596
I don't. I like it more when Santa goes around knowing full well that he's giving children a death sentence. Like he's just got this misshapen demon wearing his dirty old clothes that follows him around. You wake up chained to a radiator in a dingy bathroom, cold and half naked and sticky blood matting your hair from where you were knocked in the head. And this jolly old man comes in and he chuckles nervously and tells you that you've been very naughty, and coal just won't cut it. And you don't really understand what he's saying--because of the head wound--and he starts telling you about his son, and how he's a Naughty boy, but he can't bring himself to punish him, so to make him Nice he has to provide him with... toys.
And then Santa leaves and the shitty fluorescent lights crackle and in the doorway you think you see Santa coming back, but his coat is darker, the red unwashed and dirty, and he's thinner, and hunched over, but still tall. And the figure steps in closer and his face is disfigured and twisted, the sclera of his eyes red, and lumps and knobs coming from his forehead, some rising up and twisting like horns. And he licks his lips and you can see that his teeth and grubby and yellow and stained, and sharp as knives...

>>44605685

You certainly put a lot of work into your BDSM snuff fanfiction, but Santa and Krampus being the same person is still pretty great. A lot of neat mythological vibes from that idea.

Hey, Chris, if you're around or come around, I have questions about werewolves.

What is the Pack like? The book seems to imply that a lot of the people on the lower rungs are come-and-go, and that Werewolves need a good cover story for their Pack, like a bar with a ritual the regulars do (that's actually a Rite). What are the kind of things that Packs do to hide their true nature? What kind of Territories do they claim?

Can you give more examples? I know you had your Paris game, with the unusual Territory set up.

Tonight is hopefully when I can wrangle the cats once and for all, and if they don't make decisions I'm going to start making some for them.

>>44599017
I think ghosts can use numina, can't they? plus werewolves can A. become claimed by their totem in a not "Bad" way and B. get fetishes that allow access to numina.

>>44606364
>I think ghosts can use numina, can't they?
I think all Entites use numina.

>>44606364
Who controls a Claimed? Reads weirdly compared to Possessed

>>44606393
The spirit controls them completely.

>>44606299
The upcoming Pack book should answer a lot of that, but every pack is going to be different

>>44606425
Well, yeah, but "every pack is different" isn't all that helpful. I need examples of what packs CAN be so that I can help my players decide what theirs IS.

>>44606459
Packs can be literally anything.

You should start by asking what the players want, then work from there

>>44606470
>You should start by asking what the players want
"I'm fine with whatever the others want".

>>44606425
it's not quite that simple, no. They're weird, composite entities that are a melding of the spirit and the human, whichever personality is more dominant will get what it wants more often than not. USUALLY that's the spirit unless it's some kinda supernatural or a very weak spirit.

>>44606508
If that's what they all say, they don't really care and you should just go standard with it, because they probably won't be interacting with their hanger ons anyhow

>>44606537
No, Claimed take over completely.

Urged give the host a chance.

>>44606562
"Physically, the spirit is immediately as it was before
it Claimed a host. The spirit’s traits are all as they
were. But, similar to the human host, the spirit keeps
some mental traits of the psyche that it infiltrated
and wrapped around itself. It becomes just a little bit
more human than a spirit is supposed to be. Maybe
it occasionally thinks about how the human’s family
is doing or about how another spirit it consumes. It
might even have a small fascination with trains, if the
host was into that."
It takes over, but it also takes on aspects of the host.

>>44606562
>No, Claimed take over completely.
>Urged give the host a chance.
Raises the question (For me at least.) about what the third stage of being Ridden is.

I'd guess it'd be the Ridden spreading itself to other people, with a side order of being a walking Wound.

>>44606632
Yes, but the spirit controls them completely.

>>44606645
>I'd guess it'd be the Ridden spreading itself to other people, with a side order of being a walking Wound.
I can't see why you'd think that would be the third stage of being ridden (its just the first stage for other people), or why wounds would have anything to do with that

>>44606562
While I do worry that they won't be all that interested, I do think that the issue is they're all new and don't want to step on each other's toes. I've got two completely new players and one player new to Werewolf, and I'm having trouble getting them all together in the same four hour block, and attentive. I know some of it is also being online and without voice.

I'm hoping that I can get them to feel involved and interested tonight. That is my goal. If they don't get interested soon, I worry the whole thing might fall apart again. Hopefully preludes will also help.

>>44606661
>(its just the first stage for other people), or why wounds would have anything to do with that
Because, as more peopel reach the third stage of being Ridden and spread it, the Wound will get larger, the larger Wound the more spirits will come through into the World of Flesh (That is how Wounds work, right?)

>>44606708
No. First off, you're thinking of a Verge. Second off, that's not the logical extension of Ridden, which is spirit and flesh merging.

>>44606669
>I've got two completely new players and one player new to Werewolf, and I'm having trouble getting them all together in the same four hour block, and attentive. I know some of it is also being online and without voice.
Which is why you should just go with the book and not try anything fancy, that way if they're at a loss they have the book to fall back on

they make wolf-blooded associates (coworkers, friends, cousins, close family members, frenemies, whatever) who they play when their werewolf is out of the picture or who are solely for a support role (focus them on contacts, being able to reach groups that the players can't), then the humans are just damsels in distress, people the werewolves care about but aren't going to be a major part of the game except when it comes to protecting them, and you have to keep the secret from them (otherwise they start losing integrity/having breaking points/going crazy),

What are the players playing? That may lend itself to easy ideas. If they're a motorcycle gang, the non-werewolves can be lesser members, if they're the ceos of a big company, the packmates can be valued employees and personal assistants

>>44606708
What this guy said >>44606741
.

>>44606741
>>44606756
Well, I don't know where to put my face.

>>44606425
>The upcoming Pack book should answer a lot of that, but every pack is going to be different

Is there hope that it will come faster than Secrets of the Covenant?

>>44606756
>Which is why you should just go with the book and not try anything fancy, that way if they're at a loss they have the book to fall back on
Have you read the book? Oh man, the layout is atrocious. To the point that I'm tempted to make a quick reference so that they never have to go to the book for anything other than buying new things.

Anyway, it would be super useful if they were something like a motorcycle gang, but no such luck. They're a high school delinquent, a runaway kid, a homemaker, and a cop. I worry that maybe I should have had a tighter control on the whole "collaborative character creation" thing and had them first start with a group concept, instead of having them come up with individual character concepts and then tie them together.

do Maggaths take their original bane/ban or do they change with its shifting nature? Would a bliss spirit that took on the aspects of murder/violence get a bane/ban that had more to do with the latter two or stay with whatever it was at first?

>>44603300
Makes sense. Hope not too many of the fighting styles were lost. Especially the strength performance one! That one made me want to play a strength based character for once.

>>44606837
Depends on the spirit, I think. Some just twist their originals, some change the ban, but keep the bane, or the other way around. And some get completely re-made.

>>44605129
Seriously, where is it? Can't wait.

>>44606802
They actually look like they'll be coming out pretty close together.

>>44606813
>Have you read the book? Oh man, the layout is atrocious.
Yes, and I had no prbolems with it.
>>44606813
High School Delinquent has delinquent friends/family/guidance counselor, runaway has person who works at shelter/other runaways/homeless folks, homemaker has family/neighbors/pta/hoa, cop has cops/family/criminal informants
Some tighter control would have been ideal, even if it was just telling them about the area and suggesting they work around key points there, but it's nothing you can't work with.

>>44606982
its been on drivethrurpg for like an hour, you guys didn't get it?

>>44607030
>Yes, and I had no prbolems with it.
Well you're pretty unique in that regard.

>>44607097
I haven't spoken with anyone who had a problem with it except yourself. I'm into my third game, our group's had no problem with it with two of them, and my online pals have had no problem with it.

>>44607121
Plenty of people in these threads (though admittedly mostly me) have complained about the layout of every WoD book.

But since you have no problems, tell me where I can find more about personalized Harmony Breaking Points. I know I saw it somewhere, but can't find it again.

>>44607043
>>44606982
>>44605129
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/170165/Demon-Storytellers-Guide?cPath=8329_20629

>>44607184
>But since you have no problems, tell me where I can find more about personalized Harmony Breaking Points. I know I saw it somewhere, but can't find it again.
There's no such thing.

There's personalized Triggers, if that's what you mean.

>>44607184
>>44607279
Page 104 is the one time it gets mentioned:

>The breaking points below apply to all Uratha. They’re a starting point rather than a definitive list. The player and Storyteller should work together to define one or two breaking points in each direction for her character based on her auspice, tribe, and Touchstones. Breaking points toward Flesh involve actively denying her Uratha nature. Breaking points toward Spirit instead require her to turn her back on her heritage in the world of Flesh.

Considering how difficult or morally-compromising it is to trigger the breaking points listed as "for all Uratha", I suggest coming up with more than just one or two personal additions.

Just how weird and esoteric can influences get? I imagine something like influence(Animals) or Influence(murder) would be a bit too vague, or am I wrong?

>>44607364
It really isn't hard to hit the breaking points for all uratha, we've been having breaking point checks every session.

>>44607372
Murder is pretty ok, it's a specific form of Death, after all.
But as a rule of thumb, Entities with broad spectrum influences are either really simple, or really powerful.

>>44607372
Nah, they're fine. Pretty sure there's at least one spirit of murder in the books. Animals would be like a zoo or pet store, with more specific animal spirits being more common in the wild (an eagle spirit).

>>44607364
That's my thing. From people who've played, it's hard to hit Spirit Breaks unless you're a complete asshole, but every one of those breaks the Oath, which puts you back towards Flesh anyway.

>>44607392
You seem to not have a lot of problems that everyone else seems to have. So that begs the question of just what it is you're doing that everyone else isn't, and why you seem to have a different experience.

>>44607437
>You seem to not have a lot of problems that everyone else seems to have. So that begs the question of just what it is you're doing that everyone else isn't, and why you seem to have a different experience.
I think you're confusing "everyone else" for one or two people

I read the book, that's it.

>>44607437
>That's my thing. From people who've played, it's hard to hit Spirit Breaks unless you're a complete asshole, but every one of those breaks the Oath, which puts you back towards Flesh anyway.
Have you ever killed a human in your games?

Hey! A book I wrote for is out!

Like I said last night, I did Giants in the Earth, the Promethean Crossover, and the Geist crossover. If anyone wants to ask questions or whatever about it, I'd be glad to answer them.

>>44607523
We'll be sure to mention how horrible those sections are in the reviews, thank you.

>>44607043
When I posted I had just searched for it and only something for oWoD showed up.

>>44607230
Thanks!

>>44607481
I think you're confusing one or two people for many people.

>>44607501
>every one of those breaks the Oath, which puts you back towards Flesh anyway.

>>44607523
Tell me more about the Geist crossover.

>there's no way to download a book from DriveThruRPG on iOS

FUCKING KILL ME

>>44607523

Does Giants in the Earth let me bust up motherfuckers with a donkey jaw bone?

Is it a dubiously-canon "shard," or part of the real history of the Demon setting?

>>44607568
>>every one of those breaks the Oath, which puts you back towards Flesh anyway.
Killing a human puts you to the spirit and doesn't break the Oath

>>44607598
Depends on how much of a dick your ST is regarding "respect your prey".

And dropping Harmony from killing a human is difficult if you've got a decent Willpower score, since there's no negative modifier to your Harmony roll.

>>44607596
It's one of those "yes but no" things. It can totally be the real Demon history, or it can be fairy tale. I wrote it intending to be the real history, if that helps at all.

I did not stat jaw bones, but you may bust up motherfuckers with one with my blessing.

>>44607568
It's a quick run-down of the big things for Geist: Sin-Eaters, the Underworld, and the Dead Dominions, with abbreviated rules for each, plus some story seeds for Demon-Geist crossovers.

>>44607598
Killing a human also requires you to be willing to murder people (which is going to be difficult for a starting werewolf, since they're still very close to human in morality and outlook), and also results in police investigations, Hunters, angry Vampires or Mages who were using that human for something, etc. etc.

>>44607598
Isn't killing people or wolves a violation of the Oath?
Either way, killing a random person to get more in tune with nature is pretty solidly in the "being an asshole" territory.

>>44607674
Seeds like what? Also, what's this setting like? Are the demons still robotic?

>>44607672
This. It's not that every spirit breaking point also breaks the Oath, it's that every Spirit breaking point that reduces your Resolve+Composure pool enough to make dropping Harmony actually feasible does.

Either that or just make sure your Werewolf has 2 Willpower, I guess.

>>44607672
Which doesn't matter, because you've still hit a Breaking Point.

What the fuck are your players doing if they're not hitting breaking points? Did you read the 10 Commandments? The storytelling advice sections? The game is visceral, you shouldn't be just sitting around quipping to each other for hours like a Buffy marathon, you should be doing shit.

>>44607698
>Killing a human also requires you to be willing to murder people (which is going to be difficult for a starting werewolf, since they're still very close to human in morality and outlook)
You shouldn't all be playing cubs who are still whining over their first change
>and also results in police investigations, Hunters, angry Vampires or Mages who were using that human for something, etc. etc.
Yes, these are fucking plot hooks, these are problems that rise up when you kill people, but sometimes killing folks is a necessity because letting them away is breaking the oath

>>44607725
>Isn't killing people or wolves a violation of the Oath?
No.
>Either way, killing a random person to get more in tune with nature is pretty solidly in the "being an asshole" territory.
What games are you people playing? Do humans not cause trouble in your territories? Do they never notice you change?

Seriously, how are you people playing your games? And WHY are you playing them if you're trying to remain as stable as possible.

>>44607725
Demons are still robots, God's still the God-Machine, angels are still robots.

Just, bible times. Buy the book to find out more, I can't give this away for free.

>>44607725
>Either way, killing a random person to get more in tune with nature is pretty solidly in the "being an asshole" territory.
This. In my werewolf game we're playing people who generally aren't dickbags, and we're having to metagame our asses off in order to justify our characters doing things like unnecessarily killing and eating humans in order to get our Harmony scores down.

And of course, unnecessary killing of humans also violates "respect your prey", depending on how the ST is feeling.

>>44607751
>Do humans not cause trouble in your territories?
Sure they do. We deal with them in ways that aren't "rip their heads off and devour their entrails", because werewolves are actually capable of creative problem solving.

>Do they never notice you change?
No? Changing in front of humans violates the Oath, and is a Breaking Point toward Flesh, so we don't do it.

>>44607751
>Which doesn't matter, because you've still hit a Breaking Point.
...Yes it does? You don't get anything for hitting Breaking Points in werewolf. You only benefit if you actually drop Harmony, which is difficult if you've got a decent Willpower score. This requires you to hit Breaking Points over and over, which results in unnecessary and indiscriminate killing of humans, which is a violation of the Oath, which causes you to take a Breaking Point you ARE more likely to fail since being shifted toward Flesh penalizes rolls to not shift further toward Flesh.

>>44607415
>>44607409
Ah, fair enough. In that case, 'nother question. How exactly could a spirit 'use' the lower, weaker levels of influences? Things like strengthen, I read somewhere that "Strengthen:murder" might be use to empower a weapon or somethin similar?

>>44607751
This might surprise you but not everyone plays WoD characters who are sociopathic murderers that don't give a shit about human life.

>these are problems that rise up when you kill people
Which is why people might want to AVOID killing folks. Sometimes killing folks is necessary. Killing them to drop towards the Spirit isn't one of those times.

>>44607836
Because of this, does anyone have any suggestions for Spiritual Breaking Points that aren't "start eating hobos"?

>>44607898
>Breaking points toward Spirit instead require her to turn her back on her heritage in the world of Flesh.

Start there, I guess. Neglecting your responsibilities toward the humans in your lives in favor of ALL WEREWOLF ALL THE TIME, for example. Do literally nothing but hunt and manage your territory? Break toward Spirit.

>>44607953
For Iron Master Werewolves in particular, it might be as simple as "failing to spend a majority of your time hidden among the Herd".

>>44607953
>>44607972
Forgetting your old life. Who was your werewolf before the Change? Abandoning that to fully embrace their werewolf identity is turning their back on their heritage.

>>44607762
>And of course, unnecessary killing of humans also violates "respect your prey", depending on how the ST is feeling.
It shouldn't, cause eating someone has nothing to do with respect.

>>44607801
>Sure they do. We deal with them in ways that aren't "rip their heads off and devour their entrails", because werewolves are actually capable of creative problem solving.
Really? So murderers and slashers and werewolf hunters are solved creatively?
>No? Changing in front of humans violates the Oath, and is a Breaking Point toward Flesh, so we don't do it.
So why aren't all your enemies just mindfucking you from a crowd, where you won't do shit to stand up to them?

>>44607836
>...Yes it does? You don't get anything for hitting Breaking Points in werewolf. You only benefit if you actually drop Harmony, which is difficult if you've got a decent Willpower score.
Which doesn't matter, because the point was you guys were not hitting breaking points whatsoever.
>This requires you to hit Breaking Points over and over, which results in unnecessary and indiscriminate killing of humans, which is a violation of the Oath
It is not a violation of the Oath, you can kill entire towns and not violate the oath

>>44607898
>This might surprise you but not everyone plays WoD characters who are sociopathic murderers that don't give a shit about human life.
Do you know where murder spirits come from?
Fucking murder.
Do you know where silver bullets come from?
Werewolf hunters.
Have you paid any attention to the news lately, with police abuse and corruption, with refugees bringing their cultures into foreign lands and causing culture clashes, with fucking gun nuts going on shooting sprees and militias taking over buildings?
These are all things you can be dealing with because if you don't, the spirit is going to be in an uproar. If it's in an uproar, you're fucked.
Humans can be antagonists.

>>44608060
I never said anyone had to be a sociopath, and it's fine to kill someone and feel sad about it. But you should be doing SOMETHING in your games.

What are your antagonists? Claimed who sit on top of a mountain being evil until someone kills them? Are you going to run out of mountains? Every location in the 2e book has a ton of plots ready for it, even in the most peaceful of werewolf cities there's danger on the horizon and often danger hidden behind the peace

Are you guys actually playing, or are you just theorycrafting based on a poor understanding of the book?

>>44608060
>It shouldn't, cause eating someone has nothing to do with respect.
I'd say randomly eating hobos to keep your sanity guage in check is pretty disrespectful...

Dude, it sounds like your werewolves either fuck up all the time, or your ST is throwing you softballs so that you have plenty of humans to murder without actually having to worry about managing your Harmony.

/wodg/ how would go about runing a sword and sandle game set in the roman frontier province of Gaul?

>>44608060
Have part of the actual definition of "Respect Your Prey" from the book:
>A pack that kills callously gains enemies among spirits who see them as cruel barbarians. Indifference to the deaths of animals and spirits leads to losing respect for the hunt itself. A true predator kills out of necessity, not mere desire.

>Indifference to deaths
>Only kill out of necessity

>Eating someone has nothing to do with respect
That's debatable, but it has everything to do with "Do Not Eat the Flesh of Man or Wolf", which is its own part of the Oath.

Did you even read the fucking book?

>So why aren't all your enemies just mindfucking you from a crowd, where you won't do shit to stand up to them?
Because we're not going up against superpowered psychic assholes who use crowds as human shields?

And resisting psychic influence is pretty trivial for werewolves.

>It is not a violation of the Oath, you can kill entire towns and not violate the oath
You're completely wrong here and I've already explained why.

>Humans can be antagonists.
And if your solution to every antagonist is "brutally murder it", you're not thinking hard enough. A werewolf is so far above the herd that killing a human is almost always excessive force.

>>44608160
Requiem for Rome.

>>44608060

>It shouldn't, cause eating someone has nothing to do with respect.

It does, when you consider the balance of predatory and prey in nature. You don't want to overhunt your prey, because not only is that how you lose your all your prey and your purpose, but because it's always a means of getting way too cocky. You won't be prepared for when the prey adapts in a last ditch effort to save themselves.

>>44592522
An erection that large merits a visit to the doctor.

>>44608215
Even then, eating someone is a violation of the Oath of the Moon, and also pretty disrespectful.

>>44608136
>I'd say randomly eating hobos to keep your sanity guage in check is pretty disrespectful...
1. It's not a sanity gauge.
2. You're the only one suggesting that the only possible way to kill humans is to do it randomly.
3. If you give them a clean death, it's not disrespectful at all.

>Dude, it sounds like your werewolves either fuck up all the time, or your ST is throwing you softballs so that you have plenty of humans to murder without actually having to worry about managing your Harmony.
It's a game about playing a werewolf, not trying to keep a 7 Harmony
Fuckups happen, they're supposed to happen, otherwise you're just flouncing around like a Mary Sue
And as for softballs, you're the one who's claiming their only antagonists are solved by talking it out, we've lost plenty of Harmony across the pack, because statistics will fail you

>>44608180
Yes, needing Essence can be necessity.
I didn't say you had to be indifferent to it.
>Did you even read the fucking book?
Yes, remember? You keep saying it's too hard to read because everything's out of order.
>Because we're not going up against superpowered psychic assholes who use crowds as human shields?
Conceptual spirits and emotional claimed would hang around humans as a point of fact. Other claimed would bring more humans to fucking eat because that's what they do to get Essence. Even in the fiction the beshilu hosts invade the bodies of children and police to torment the werewolves because, sociopaths or not, claimed, spirits, hosts, pure, werewolf hunters, they all hate werewolves.
>You're completely wrong here and I've already explained why.
And I just explained why I was right
>And if your solution to every antagonist is "brutally murder it", you're not thinking hard enough. A werewolf is so far above the herd that killing a human is almost always excessive force.
So how are you going to stop a slasher or mage fucking up the Shadow without killing it?

>>44608215

>>44608215
>You don't want to overhunt your prey,
No. We're not talking about your ridiculous "killing people means randomly killing a ton of people"

Killing one person is not upsetting the balance of nature.

>>44608093
>What are your antagonists?
Off the top of my head, from what I can remember:

Crow hosts and uppity spirits were the early stuff. A mortal gang at one point, which we DID deal with using mass murder (Gauru form forcing mortals to use Down and Dirty Combat so you kill an entire room full of human gangbangers in one round makes humans pretty laughable). Didn't drop Harmony from that, because Willpower was too high, and that also got an entire city's worth of werewolves pissed off at us doing ultraviolence on their territory and basically got us banned from that city.

Back in our home city? Dickass Mages, who we've dealt with via negotiation because the pack leader is an Elodoth and Mages are fucking dangerous. Weird melting MIB human-mimics who were part of some sort of weird conspiracy. Killing them didn't count as a break because they weren't actually humans.

A bunch of hunters in way over their heads in the northern part of our territory. They're just a bunch of stupid kids trying to protect themselves from monsters, so we've dealt with them by infiltrating their compact and directing them away from our activities.

We've had a grand total of one problem that was best solved via killing humans, and even then it was only because we were pressed for time and in foreign territory so we couldn't think up a better option.

>>44608300
>and basically got us banned from that city.
You don't have any Iron Masters of Hunters in Darkness?
>A bunch of hunters in way over their heads in the northern part of our territory. They're just a bunch of stupid kids trying to protect themselves from monsters, so we've dealt with them by infiltrating their compact and directing them away from our activities.
What monsters were they trying to protect themselves from?
>We've had a grand total of one problem that was best solved via killing humans, and even then it was only because we were pressed for time and in foreign territory so we couldn't think up a better option.
I think it's also a bit of your StoryTeller now, rather than just you

And you can change Harmony in ways other than killing humans. Is everyone going to the Shadow once a week? Is there nothing there that requires long-term attention? When other werewolves came to kick you out of the territory (which you've vowed to honor and protect, providing you have an IM or HiD), did you resist?

I'd really suggest re-reading the Auspice/Tribe section and Chapter 2. ST shouldbe reading the Storytelling section

I am currently stuck in an airport waiting for a heavily delayed flight, so unless things shift forward soon I'll be around to answer stuff.

>>44608298

Yes it is. You have reduced the population, you start a chain reaction in the herd, among other aspects of nature being influenced, if only slightly. Individuals matter just as much as the aggregate.

>>44608382
>You don't have any Iron Masters of Hunters in Darkness?
One Iron Master, one Hunter in Darkness, one ex-Storm Lord now Ghost Wolf, one Bone Shadow.

>What monsters were they trying to protect themselves from?
Can't exactly remember as I've missed a few sessions recently for real-life reasons, but I believe it started out with the freaky MIB guys we dealt with, and now they know there's weird shit out there and want to be prepared. We got in there early so they didn't start hunting werewolves.

>Is everyone going to the Shadow once a week?
Yes? Crossing over into the Shadow is fairly trivial if you've got a locus in your territory, and only patrolling the physical half of your territory would make you an idiot.
>Is there nothing there that requires long-term attention?
Sure, but none of it's 24/7 attention. We can afford to take a few hours to head into the Hisil and check on things every so often.
>When other werewolves came to kick you out of the territory (which you've vowed to honor and protect, providing you have an IM or HiD), did you resist?
It wasn't our territory. Our territory's New York. We went back to Philadelphia, where the Iron Master grew up, because some of the people he grew up with were in trouble with that gang we ended up wiping out and needed help, and he insisted on going and solving the issue personally. Philly's local packs were not pleased with our intrusion on their territory, and told us to get the hell out so they could clean up our mess. We took the Iron Master's people back with us to New York and have resettled them in our territory.

>>44608444
We're currently arguing (though it seems to have died down) about werewolf.

One side says that werewolves aren't likely to kill humans.

The other side says that it should be happening occasionally.

Also there's some theories about Storytellers softballing it
>>44608300
These are all the antagonists a pack has faced.

Can you tell us what happened in your Paris game, after the podcast stopped being updated? Or just some points where the players had Breaking Points?

>>44608476
You might be confusing Apocalypse for Forsaken

>>44608300
Oh, I forgot the local Pure who moved in. We dealt with them via negotiation as well, as well as some shady dealings in the shadow to strengthen our relative position. They're fine with this because they're a bunch of Fire-Touched who'd rather convert us than kill us, and we're hoping to slowly get them to turn coat as well.

Also they've got major feelers in the NYPD, and we don't want them bringing the police to bear against us, because those are just innocent men and women doing their jobs.

>>44608444
How exactly do the lower levels of influence work for more esoteric things like murder, violence, etc?

>>44608594
Also is there a specific mechanical effect to Strengthening Joy or Karate?

>>44608538
The Pure of the Fire-Touched — the Izidakh — are mad-
eyed zealots filled with fervor and faith, the disciples of Rabid
Wolf. They are creatures of the Shadow, serving as prophets
and priests for that otherworldly realm, and they choose as
their sacred prey those who they see as dishonoring and dis-
respecting it. The Fire-Touched see the Forsaken as deluded
betrayers, but believe that some can be saved – if they would
only listen to the feverish words of Fire-Touched preachers.
Those who would hunt the Fire-Touched must deal with
their incredible armory of rites and esoteric Shadow lore — the
high priests and templars of the tribe can warp the Shadow
and break its laws with ease. They are extremely numerous,
and adherents often wield spiritual magics of disease and
madness that they will not hesitate to use against the Forsaken
and their allies. Worst of all are the insistent promises and
persuasive offers of salvation; the Fire-Touched want to talk,
and they wield words as adeptly as any weapon.

>>44608637
>Worst of all are the insistent promises and
persuasive offers of salvation; the Fire-Touched want to talk, and they wield words as adeptly as any weapon.
This is the important part with respect to these particular Fire-Touched.

They're cops, and they understand the concept of restraint. As far as they're concerned they have all the power, so we don't need to be killed when we can be turned.

This is why we're being subtle.

>>44608513
No. Se, in Apocalypse it's okay to randomly murder people and thin the herd.

>>44608444
Can you give me some avice for my Werewolf pack? >>44608487 gets a bit of it, asking about Breaking Points, but I'm also curious about things like the Totems and Bans and just what the mortals that are part of the pack think they're doing. What are the not-player parts of the Pack like?

Also, where you goin'?

>>44608282
It is kind of a sanity gauge. And I'm saying that the only way to reliably lower your Harmony when you're high harmony seems to be to kill lots of people. Others who've played the game have the same issue.

And, no, it's not about trying to keep Harmony 7. It's about people having trouble getting BELOW Harmony 7. It's about maintaining Balance, but it's much easier to break towards Flesh than Spirit.

And for someone who's read the book, you seem to have missed the part where eating someone for Essence is BAD. It's against the Oath.

You're acting like every antagonist is a human, and that it's so easy to break down to Spirit without a problem.

>>44608487
I can't remember exactly how far the podcasts got to, but I tend to throw all sorts of breaking points in depending on what was happening; the first time they called upon a Lune for renown branding as a break towards spirit, for example. Or going back and seeing mortal family or acquaintances, being breaks towards flesh (if doing their best to get back into. Their old life) or spirit (for those moments when they were faced with never being ab,e to go back to it and realising their distance from what and who they once were) as appropriate. Basically. I use far more breaking points than the standard list alone.

>>44609147
>And for someone who's read the book, you seem to have missed the part where eating someone for Essence is BAD. It's against the Oath.
I was talking about killing people.
>You're acting like every antagonist is a human,
I'm really not, but humans should be a big part of the game, and are likely to be incorporated in almost every antagonists plans, if they're not antagonists themselves
> and that it's so easy to break down to Spirit without a problem.
You should be facing more breaking points.

Even the guy who was telling us about his antagonists seems to be getting softballs. Friendly pure, who are cops, who just want to talk? The Fire-Touched talk first, then kill
>Where words fail, she brings the rather more direct purification of fire and pain and blood.
> Still, those who reject the teachings find that the Truth-Speaker is no coward. Better, after all, to pray for the souls of the dead than let them continue to live in sin.
Hunters who are just a bunch of kids.
Werewolves kicking them out of their territory without a fight.
Hosts who are just trolling.

First part of Chapter 2:
>Werewolves aren’t human.
>Humans are taught some elementary rules from a very early age. Don’t steal. Don’t kill. These two are the rules with some of the most weight, and most humans follow them diligently. By contrast, werewolves simply aren’t put together that way. If a werewolf possesses a thing — territory, a weapon, a vehicle — he must be strong enough to keep it. As for killing, the Uratha are born hunters and killers. Werewolves change form, heal at an astonishing rate, step into the spirit world, and call upon powers torn into their very souls, to name a few abilities. Their forms are all optimized for various roles in the hunt.
>Almost every successful hunt ends with the prey’s violent, bloody death.

are spirits that have claimed a human still visible in twilight like a spirit that is just 'urging' a human?

>>44609234
No, they're not in Twilight at all. You need a special condition or gift to even notice them.

>>44609234
Claimed resuperimposed by their spirit master, so yes

>>44608594
Varies a lot, generally allows you to increase the intensity of an occurrence relating to the concept or gain some direction over it.

Violence, for example. Strengthen an existing person leaning towards violence to trigger them into actually committing it. Fire it off over a brawl to see overall increased intensity of the fighting fewer people falling to beaten down and instead fighting on, or there being more casualties from the brutality. Manipulate to help channel and have basic control where that violence goes and the form it takes; a savage beating rather than a killing, or for the violent man to lean towards picking a fight wi this guy rather than that guy. Etc.

>>44609253
What leads you to this conclusion?

>>44609286
Mis-remembering the rules and getting it confused with Possessed, mostly

>>44609232
Not every Hunt is against a human. In fact, most aren't, unless you're an Iron Master. Sometimes the thing might have once been a human, but usually that's already gone by and they're monsters.

>>44608634
Not a set one, but if the st is quick on their feet there can be. Joy strengthened could, mechanically, reduce a targets composure or resolve. Maybe make social manoeuvres playing off their. State of mind faster. Karate, er, is an odd one but ok, strengthening it could grant a subject with a karate specialty an extra die on their attacks, or increase the number of dots they have in a suitable fighting style temporarily, etc.

>>44609250
Damn, how unfortunate. I've got a player in the game where a claimed is about to pop up who can see just about anything in twilight, guess I don't get to describe the actual spirit as being behind the claimed in a stand-style.

>>44609322
>Not every Hunt is against a human.
No one said they were.
>In fact, most aren't, unless you're an Iron Master.
A werewolf is not obliged to hunt their sacred prey, anyone can hunt humans. All wolves must hunt.

>>44609357
Maybe he's still half-way between possessed and claimed?

>>44609357
Yeah that'd be more of an urged or ridden.

It's not uncommon for claimed to bring other spirits across

>>44609074
Totems and bans - what about them?

Mortals in pack - varies. In my Paris game, the mortals were all clued in re werewolves and were the ex cultists of a cult that a bale hound had been running before the PCs saved them. In my Wroclaw game, the mortals were the actual human staff at the veterinary surgery that one of the PCs ( Daveb's ithaeur) ran.

I am in my way back to the uk from Poland. Or would be if the plan had arrived yet.

>>44609381
that could also work, though It might just be fun to watch them puzzle out "Why the fuck is this human so much stronger than normal?"
>>44609382
True, gonna definitely be fun to watch my hunters play amateur spirit-police and try to fix this nightmare

>>44609232
>Friendly pure, who are cops, who just want to talk? The Fire-Touched talk first, then kill
They're not "friendly", they just don't consider negotiations to have broken down yet, and they have their own shit to deal with.

>Werewolves kicking them out of their territory without a fight.
We're on relatively friendly terms with the packs in Philly (they're the ones who picked us up after our respective First Changes, so they know us), and there's the whole "don't kill other werewolves" part of the Oath.

>Hunters who are just a bunch of kids.
Lots of Hunters have no idea what the fuck they're doing. We've been low-key enough not to attract the really crazy ones, I guess.

What you're seeing as "softballs" is more "positive results from succeeding at being discrete and social maneuvering".

>>44609234
No, although the storm Lord sacred hunt will allow hunters to see the spirit.

>>44609434
>What you're seeing as "softballs" is more "positive results from succeeding at being discrete and social maneuvering".
It's not the results that are softballs, its the issues to begin with

>>44609232
>>44609434
In general, though, most of the really heavy-hitters we've been hunting have been either spirits, or weird out-of-context World of Darkness bullshit. The humans are smalltime.

My ST also seems to be a big fan of the general nWoD theme that solving your problems with lethal violence almost always creates more problems than it solves (which is the whole theme of Hurt Locker, among other things), and our characters generally know that particular truth.

>>44609473
It's also the theme with Forsaken. Which is why it's hard to be a werewolf, because your first instinct is to kill shit.

>>44609503
well, -a- theme

Read the Purified on thread's advice. It doesn't mention Werewolves, but they seem like something Werewolves would not take well.

>>44609362
No one said they were, but you're acting like they are.

The crux of this argument is that people have said that it's hard to break towards Spirit, and that the methods for doing so are often not something most characters will want to do because of their personality.

You on the other hand say that it's easy, and you can just kill humans. You've even suggested slaughtering a whole town.

Anyone CAN hunt humans, but most werewolves aren't going to have reason to. Not every werewolf is going to want to murder humans, which is the easiest Breaking Point towards Spirit.

>>44609417
Mostly just trying to figure out what suggestions and examples to give my players. I'm trying to figure out how to tie together a runaway, a delinquent, a MILF, and a cop. So far our only Wolfblooded is the momma bear's husband. What sort of appearances and formats do Packs take? One of the big problems with 2e is that a lot of concepts like that don't get a lot of room to breath.

How out of character would it be to have a Magath as a Spirit? The guy upthread made a god point that a Magath with a Pack is less likely to cause problems.

>>44609473
Weird out of context shit and violence causing problems are the best ways to play WoD.

>>44609582
They're basically reverse-claimed so yeah. But in the end it'd depend on which side of things thye fell on (if they were friendly and willing to help the werewolves, go allies, if not, fuck them)

>>44609591
>You've even suggested slaughtering a whole town.
I said that in response to "killing people is against the oath"
>and that the methods for doing so are often not something most characters will want to do because of their personality.
It is ignoring the main part of werewolf, where you are a werewolf, not a human, and don't work with human sensibilities
>but most werewolves aren't going to have reason to.
Humans are the source of claimed, of many spirits and practically all conceptuals/emotions, most wounds, they're hosts to shartha, they become hunters
There's more reasons to kill humans than spirits

>>44609591
>How out of character would it be to have a Magath as a Spirit? The guy upthread made a god point that a Magath with a Pack is less likely to cause problems.
I for one approve of this horrible idea, if only for the hilarity.

>>44609638
>It is ignoring the main part of werewolf, where you are a werewolf, not a human, and don't work with human sensibilities
Except being shifted toward Flesh literally means your sensibilities are more human than werewolf, and every werewolf start shifted toward Flesh.

>>44609671
It's really not a horrible idea, you seem to have a misconception about magath

>>44608476
Dude, if the Iron Master's favorite prey are humans, I'm pretty sure that killing one won't give a Harmony break. In any direction. Fit any tribe.

>>44609715
Very first Breaking Point toward Spirit:
>Killing a human or wolf.

>>44609689
And if you could see what the Spirit of America has turned herself into, you'd shit your pants.

...Irinam has issues

>>44609684
>Except being shifted toward Flesh literally means your sensibilities are more human than werewolf
Harmony has nothing to do with your sensibilities.
Your sensibilities stopped being human when you became a werewolf, and have nothing to do with Harmony, the book doesn't even suggest it has something to do with harmony.

Hey, nice to see us arguing about something other than Mage for once.

>voluntarily making an insane, mutant super-predator your mascot

>>44609756
That's more an issue of power. She's very powerful (but not necessarily the spirit of America) and because of that would dominate her relationship with a pack

>>44609715
You don't get an out because of your tribe, Harmony is Harmony. But losing Harmony isn't the end of the game, because you can regain it.

>>44609638
Being a Werewolf doesn't mean ignoring humanity. In fact, being a werewolf means keeping some of your human sensibilities as well as Spiritual once. Just because humans are the source of Claimed and Humans can become problems doesn't mean every Werewolf is going to be okay murdering humans.

>>44609770
Your sensibilities don't just automatically change when you do. Also, yes, it does. Have you not read the Harmony section?

>>44609907
>Your sensibilities don't just automatically change when you do.
Again:
>>44609232
>First part of Chapter 2:
>>Werewolves aren’t human.
>>Humans are taught some elementary rules from a very early age. Don’t steal. Don’t kill. These two are the rules with some of the most weight, and most humans follow them diligently. By contrast, werewolves simply aren’t put together that way. If a werewolf possesses a thing — territory, a weapon, a vehicle — he must be strong enough to keep it. As for killing, the Uratha are born hunters and killers. Werewolves change form, heal at an astonishing rate, step into the spirit world, and call upon powers torn into their very souls, to name a few abilities. Their forms are all optimized for various roles in the hunt.
>>Almost every successful hunt ends with the prey’s violent, bloody death.

>Also, yes, it does. Have you not read the Harmony section?
Yes, and it says nothing about sensibilities or emotions or humanity beyond a lack of shapeshifting.
Have you? Because it seems like everyone I talk to is reading some version of the book that doesn't exist

>>44609772
That's because our resident arguefag, while primarily a Mage fan, is currently trying to run Werewolf.

File: Werewolf_the_Forsaken_Second_Edition_(Download_Final)_02.jpg (715 KB, 1913x2475) Image search: [Google]

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>>44609907
>Your sensibilities don't just automatically change when you do. Also, yes, it does. Have you not read the Harmony section?
Where does it say anything about human sensibilities?

>>44609960
Yep, praise be to glorious faggot-kun, 90% of the posts in this thread are bound to be him.

>>44609988

http://theonyxpath.com/now-available-demon-storytellers-guide/

>>44609960
He didn't have much to do with our last Mage argument, though. The crusade merit and all that.

>>44609772

If you had told me that there'd be a multi-hour argument over Werewolf this time last year I would never have believed you. Here's hoping it's this way about other games come next year.

>>44609946
That's not a fucking instant thing. You don't stop caring about your family or killing people once you Change. Shit, man, Chris even pointed out that he's had people Break towards Flesh for doing family stuff instead of Werewolf stuff.

You seem to be reading a version of the book no one else is.

>>44609960
Dude, half the time I'm arguing with people about Mage, it's to point out they're wrong and that Mages aren't the greatest. It's not like I'm "primarily a Mage fan". I'd have thought this thread would consider me "primarily a Geist fan".

Do Influences all default to 1 min/success in CofD 2e?

>>44610056
But we're arguing about how the Harmony rules are shit and don't actually work the way they seem to be designed to work (namely, werewolves making Breaks in both directions all the time, and actually shifting Harmony when they do).

How is that a good thing?

>>44610073
>That's not a fucking instant thing. You don't stop caring about your family or killing people once you Change. Shit, man, Chris even pointed out that he's had people Break towards Flesh for doing family stuff instead of Werewolf stuff.
You don't play a werewolf who has just had his first change. You play a werewolf who's already lost two Harmony
>>44609976
> Humans who go through the First Change replace Integrity with Harmony, and start with nine dots regardless of their Integrity.
And who has joined a tribe

Notice the book I posted a page from? That's the book.

>>44610088
Yes.

>>44609997

Gonna get me a copy of this soon. Also for those that are interested, no sign of Dreams of Avarice yet.

>>44610100

Because any discussion that's actually about the game being played and not about the usual suspects is something to be treasured, even if it's over flaws in a game.

Hurt Locker spoilers - Psychic Vampires

http://theonyxpath.com/hurt-locker-psychic-vampires/

The recent lesser splats from Hurt Locker , today's psychic vampires. and the recently spoiled pacifists and lucky people, have been really uninspiring and dull.

I hope the book does not devote too much attention to these splats, and instead we get many more crunchy merits and systems.

DavidH is usually very good with merits (I think his "advanced" merits in Beast were one of the few small redeeming parts of the book), and I hope Hurt Lockers focuses on those strengths.

>>44610212
>I hope the book does not devote too much attention to these splats, and instead we get many more crunchy merits and systems.
Micro Templates
(10,000 Words, Vivian Paul 5k, Brian York 5k)
I want a few supernatural “micro templates” related to violence. You can find an example micro template here, in my psychic vampires. That’s like 1,500 words, but I spare nothing. It’s just raw text. For these, I would like two where you give a little description of what they are, and an example character that fits in the template.
Consider a pseudo-science supersoldier type, and maybe someone that channels spiritual energies or some shit. Bonus points if you can wrap them in real world pseudoscience or occultism and not condescend to someone’s culture.
Four templates in all. Brian, I’d like you to do one that could fit into the Tokyo setting chapter. Each of these should get about 2,500 words. But if you want to do a 2k and 3k, that’s fine, too.

>>44610256

That's still only 10% of the book, I think, which should be 90% everything else. Aren't most WoD books 100,000 words?

>>44609976

I don't see anything about sensibilities.

>>44610345
120k words in Hurt Locker

>>44610374

Oh so it's more like 8%. Actually, I think between the Psychic Vampires, the Plain, and the Luck folks, we've probably seen most of the micro-templates already.

>>44610355
It's on page 104, under Harmoney.

Oh, you're talking about Werewolf the Forsaken. I'm looking at Werewoof the Formaken.

>>44610446

I love Werewoof. Every time I play I make sure I shift into Garoo.

Also, Mummy fans: Dreams of Avarice has arrived for Kickstarter backers!

>>44610256
>Consider a pseudo-science supersoldier type,

I would like to see a supersoldier "micro-template" in Hurt Locker, and the pacifists, lucky people, and psychic vampires definitely don't fill that niche.