Good tier 2 decks edition.
what are some of /tg/'s favorite tier 2 decks and what do you think they need to be put over the edge into tier one.
Not even sure if I'd consider it tier 2 but tokens. It crushes half the tier 1 matchups but gets obliterated by tron/bloom/Scapeshif/storm/ad nauseum unless your thoughtseize lottery game is strong
>Tier 2
>Good
nice meme anon
>>44586016
the latest Sorin did not help it enough, what could make the deck go faster?
I like this one.
>>44586893
i like it. could it make it into eldrazi control
>>44586893
that's really fucking good for a 5 drop, jesus christ, at the very least it forces them to get rid of 2 cards. Makes eldrazi really solid
Does anyone know how infect is doing right now. I am going 3/4 at worst at my LGS so I was curious about how it is over all
>>44587745
Only 1 placed in the top 64 decks at the open, it has some really good matchups and some really awful ones but not enough in between ones to make it super strong.
It gets free wins against bad Jund players, Tron, and usually Junk but auto loses to Affinity game 1, loses game 1 to burn and doesn't always recover, and doesn't do that well against Bloom, Scapeshift and weird combo decks. Struggles with twin because twin's tempo is nuts, but it can steal some games from any of the bad matchups if you get really lucky
If I managed to untap pyromancer's goggles to generate x more mana for either instant or sorcery, would it be copied that many times?
>>44587745
>>44587805
Also a really bad match up for ad nauseam, effectively a free win for infect, although slightly less so since ad nauseam started side boarding fog effects.
>>44587883
which is actually fine for infect, which runs dispels. It's usually good for infect to AN but living end can sometimes suck
Grishoalbrand is also easy game
>>44587854
yes it will
each time mana added to your mana pool by pyromancer's gogles is spent to cast a red instant or sorcery, its copied once, so if you spent two different instances of mana added to your mana pool by pyromancers goggles on a spell, two triggers occur
>>44587805
Infect buttrapes scapeshift and the twin and affinity matchups are nowhere near as bad as you make them out to be.
>>44588110
I might just be bad the affinity matchup but my only scapeshift knowledge comes from watching the matchup once, you could very well be correct
>>44586543
Natural Order.
>>44586893
>I'll Doom Blade it and discard a card
>Alright, then I'll counter your Doom Blade ;^)
Monastery tokens y/n
>>44588333
In my dreams.
>>44588333
Mentor + Souls + what else? Would it be like a WB delver deck? where would this go?
r8 1/10?
>>44588432
>WB delver
Will I win my GPT with this?
>>44588434
>Spike Jester
My fucking NIGGER. Considering anything with <=3 toughness dies to Bolt anyway, he may as well be a 3/3 with haste for BR for all the difference it makes.
>Eldrazi temple spikes in price
>Eye of ugin spikes
>Sower is $8 a card
Fuck me a B/W deck is finally viable in modern and the price of it gets price gouged to fuck and back. Doesn't help when its being pushed as the next meme deck by most stores now.
>>44588539
my point is would it be a deck that ran a lot of instants and sorceries to make the mentor insane
>>44588576
>Doesn't help when its being pushed as the next meme deck by most stores now.
Don't you see the correlation here? It all starts with Star of David Games. SCG pushes a new memedeck/card while buying up copies and spiking the price, then when all the dumbshit kiddies have bought the deck/card, they drop it and push a new memedeck/card. This has been going on for a while now.
>>44588540
Reid Duke is taking this to the legacy GP in Prague.
>>44586893
Should have made the last ability symetrical for the sake of flavor.
>>44588576
You can still play WB tokens if you want those specific colors. It's at least as viable the Bx Eldrazi decks.
>>44588699
I hope he doesn't place, I'm tired of people talking this deck up.
>>44585240
I like living end. it will never be tier one because it completely folds to graveyard hate. if someone just drops relic of progenitus and leaves one mana open I'm helpless. hard casting inefficient creatures is not a good backup plan.
originally built it for nostalgia because friend in high school had a living death deck that just looted for 5 turns then flipped some thorn elementals into play. I really liked that deck. But now I'm thinking about selling it and building something else. I was intested in playing tooth and nail and just folding to spot removal but that kiki-chord deck that was on the SCG open stream looked like the kind of thing I would enjoy playing.
>>44589101
My nigga, living end was my first modern deck built and its still what I default to when I need a deck to take to FNM. Its such a fun deck and makes you think of how to play ≥3cmc cards, but the worst feeling is getting fucked by a turn 0 leyline of the void or its ilk.
As for the tooth and nail deck, have you not considered the xenagos/emrakul setup? Both are indestructible and a 30/30 annihilator 6 haste is pretty good.
>>44589292
yeah that's what I was referring too. the deck is crippled by removal though. you need those land untappers untapping lands to hit T&N by turn 4.
although in one goldfish and a literal god hand I hardcasted emrakul on T4, would be hilarious to see an opponent's reaction if it happened in a real game.
>>44589101
Living End shouldn't fold to relic. You just wait for them to commit something to the board, living end anyway and rebuild. The deck gets to fill its grave basically for free once you have 3-4 lands. The only thing that bends living end over backwards is rip and leyline. And better decks that have more powerful combos.
>>44588919
Why would you play that in legacy though?
How would a lightning bolt ban transform the format? my predictions:
>burn becomes Tier 99999
>Jund dissapears, the reing of terror of abzan begins
>Stoneforge mystic must not be unbanned
> Zoo becomes tier 1 (?)
What do you think fags
>>44588184
I crush the affinity players at my store but they're legitimately horrible players so I figured the matchup is about even. It's a race between decks that goldfish about as fast as each other. They get boardwipes post board but we get super efficient spot removal and sometimes recal which is a blowout. Blighted agent is key bc champion can't walk it. I think the absolute worst matchup for infect is tokens. Fuck tokens.
What are your favorite combos?
>>44590388
It would make the format more boring
Kinda want to buy an OGW desu
It's looking better than BFZ and we might get some more Eldrazi memes
My favorite tier 2 deck is RG Zoo. It's a really solid deck that has almost no bad matchups from the tier 1 decks
Affinity we can easily beat the only real problems are their fliers and etched champions. Games 2&3 become really easy with all the artifact hate packed in the SB.
Burn is also generally easy to win against. We don't run out of gas as quickly and can block their creatures and remove them easy enough which are their best sources of damage. We also have baloth and feed the clan.
Twin is a hard matchup because unless we have a very explosive hand it's hard to beat them before they successfully combo off. If they don't find the combo quickly though we can generally pull through.
Jund basically comes down to skill. 50/50 here but Jund might have a slight advantage due to all the removal they run.
R/G tron is basically a buy.
>>44590859
Vault Key
Tendrils
Gushbond
Tinker/forgemaster for blightsteel
Metalworker/staff of domination
Doomsday/lab man
Ravager/inkmoth
To name a few
>>44589348
Don't run an all in list? Play it more like twin and Tron. Ramp up into wurmcoil, thragtusk, Garruk etc. And use TN as an oops I win combo.
If they're using their mana for spot removal you shouldn't be on a super fast clock and a curve into overgrowth can do fine
>>44591362
vintagefag found
>>44589676
I wouldn't play it at all.
>>44590862
there are a lot of creatures that would make new combos available, if they don't have to pass the bolt test,
Why the hell are guru lands so expensive?
Aside from being pretty
>people don't expect a huge banlist change in two weeks
>people think an Amulet Bloom nerf/ban is as big as the Deathrite Shaman ban or Birthing Pod ban
They want to shake up the meta. Simply banning out Amulet Bloom isn't enough. They'll kill Amulet Bloom and something format defining.
One of these is getting banished:
>Deceiver Exarch (to completely shake up the meta and nerf Twin)
>Splinter Twin (to completely shake up the meta and nerf "Twin", becoming "UR Kiki" which is likely a Tier 3 trainwreck)
>Blood Moon (in an attempt to nerf Twin and buff non-Twin interactive decks)
>Urza Tron (in an attempt to encourage Eldrazi decks and buff interactive decks)
>Cranial Plating (in order to increase sideboard slots for every decks)
>8ED and 9ED (in order to buff interactive decks)
This format is kept fresh by bannings. That's what happened last year. And the year before that. Wizards gives no fucks about how much money you gave to the guy at the LGS, so be ready to potentially say goodbye to your Affinity/Twin/Tron/Amulet decks.
>>44591518
High demand, low supply.
>>44591564
you are an actual retarded person
>>44591564
>Affinity
Lol no, moron
>>44590859
enduring renewal, kobolds, goblin bombardment. It's the first combo deck I played waaaay back when.
updated it to something like this:
enduring renewal in play; use despotic scepter to send a kobold to the graveyard, as a result of which dross scorpion untaps the scepter; replay the kobold and tap the scepter, &c. With this set up you can have genesis chamber give you infinite 1/1 myrs or soul warden give you infinite life.
It's a bit difficult to get both the scorpion and the enduring renewal out before turn 4, however.
Is there anywhere outside of CoCo and Vial where Serra Avenger can be even semi-competitive? I've loved that card since Time Spiral, and I'd like to play it in a deck other than Death and Taxes.
>>44589676
Legacy has much less spot removal, making it way better there than modern. However, infect is mostly the same deck just better.
>>44591564
I swear this list is retarded. None of those are even remotely possible bans. Twin, Tron, affinity have done literally nothing to deserve bans. Amulet bloom is also not getting a ban, it hits t2/3 kills less then infect.
>>44591518
Idk, I do need more though.
>>44591514
Taking this seriously for a minute, banning bolt would make burn way worse, but other aggro way better. Red would no longer be worth splashing, I'm not sure what would replace it but my gut reaction is more 2 mana hard kill spells. Aggro would get a huge boost, especially nacatl aggro and I am guessing delver decks would drop off completely. Creatures with 3 toughness that are part of combos would see a slight uptick, but remain unplayable
>>44591564
What's more likely is a mass unbanning. The format is fine right now, so banning to "shake it up" just seems a little dumb. Wizards isn't trying to reinvent the wheel every PT, right now I'd like to see either more unbanned, or more interesting cards added to the format
>>44588432
I was thinking Boros for cheap shit or Jeskai for cheap shit + filter
Shame Muddle can't Transmute for Mentor
>>44593122
Drift of phantasms does
>>44593170
Not a card I'd really want to run though, I'd rather have more noncreatures in that slot
>>44593242
Dimir machinations or perplex then
>>44593305
Shit, I hadn't even considered going Esper, but I will now
>Prowess Infect
Oh God
>>44593393
There's not enough noncreature support in Esper for Infect. You could try Abzan, but then you lose dat sweet blue splash
Too bad Grafted Exoskeleton is 6 CMC to get online. I'd say get some Hangarbacks and Arcum Dagsson but that's slow
>>44586543
It doesn't need to be faster but it just needs to deal with things like ugin. It's in a similar spot to Jund except it can be hated out easier
>>44592200
do you like rhinos?
Where/how do you search for cards with Phyrexian mana costs?
>>44593760
Literally type Phyrexian mana in Google and click the first result
>tfw find out mage store cancelled weekly modern tourney
>challenge random guy to pack war
>but a single pack of modern masters
>crack goyf
felt fucking good to finally own one of those bastard cards.
>>44593760
Gatherer, may pay 2 life instead, in text will show you them with only a couple non phyrexian manager cards mixed in.
>contact the man of stone on skype
>we chat, he seems like a cool guy and i heard his fakes are excellent
>order 4 mixed sets, latest quality
>get them a month later
>they're painfully obvious fakes (wrong font or blurry text) except for a few random cards like Grove of the Burnwillows
Just don't. Sure you can use KMC Double Sleeves to make them look passable (looking at Liliana of the Veil), but some of them are just awful (really not proud of Verdant Catacombs' font). Tarmogoyf is also pretty bad because of the font.
Just save up. I wanted to shortcut my way because I own everything except Liliana and the enemy fetchlands (yes, Snapcaster and Tarmogoyf included), but this won't do.
>>44594377
nice repeating digits mate
gatherer ought to incorporate some common magic slang, like manlands and cantrips
>>44594767
>expecting any added functionality out of Gatherer after commenting shit the bed
I swear, one of the higher-ups at WotC or Hasbro hates technology because it would explain a lot about the state of their website and Magic Online
>>44594795
plot twist: the head of wizards...is an actual wizard
cue faint x-files music
>>44594795
even small things like searching specifically for named mechanics (infect, insteads of typing in the rules text area and receiving also things like "infectious") would be nice
also,maybe searching for things that make tokens or place specific types of counters
>>44594825
fukken wizards, no sense of right or wrong
Unban
Yes/No?
Dull Moon
Artifact
4 Generic Mana
All non-basic lands are wastes
>>44595107
Would probably be an enchantment costing 2CC
>>44595045
Get your filthy shit out of here.
>>44595177
How would this be a bad unban? It just makes Zoo better.
Unban Sword of the Meek
Yes/No?
>>44595375
Yes if Stoneforge stays banned
Otherwise no
>just got into magic because eldrazi are back and are the shit
>they just went meta and spiked in price
>>44596038
>he thinks eldrazi are cool
>ITT assblasted retards who didn't pay attention the 20 times over the last 3 weeks where I consistently posted that people should pick up the Eldrazi stuff before the meme exploded
You all have only yourselves to blame. Meanwhile I'm sitting on $1k+ that I only spent $100 to make. Since I don't even care about the deck itself I'm gonna flip it all and get myself Legacy D&T
>>44596138
I just saw it in action, it's a pretty cool deck
>>44595045
Yes, I need this for my elves
>>44596138
What did you buy?
>>44596662
Plus good card draw for efficient creature decks , which wizards have been pushing creatures. Why is this card still banned. Also unban Dread Return , Sword of the Meek, and Seething Song. Allow other combos to be viable besides Splinter Twin. Thopter combo is nowhere near as strong as Twin and Storm is an absolute joke without Song.
>>44596860
This. I'd rather face the Thopter combo then "flash Exarch equip with Splinter Twin , win"
>>44589550
>Living End shouldn't fold to relic.
it can set you back several turns if they drop it & pop it when you have 3-4 creatures in the yard. if they just leave it sitting you can't really do anything but try to bait it with a small yard.
mildly related story, I'm on the play and pass, guy drops a T1 relic and passes back, I SSG and beast within it while he's tapped out. turns out he kept a one land hand because it had relic, he gets mana screwed and steam rolled. free win. kek
UNRELATED: is anyone having problems with firefox posting on 4chan? I keep getting a certificate error with the following "This site uses HTTP Strict Transport Security (HSTS) to specify that Firefox only connect to it securely. As a result, it is not possible to add an exception for this certificate." so I can't just tell it to shut up and ignore it. having to post from IE right now.
>>44596860
idk man i watched an elf deck go off with glimpse of nature, its a pretty ridiculous card
i think i agree with all the other cards you mentioned for unbans though
Are goyfs actually needed for Zoo, or would I be able to get by without them?
>>44597820
I've seen people get by without them by running Geist and Ghor-Clan Rampagers. Mana base cries everytime and you'll lose to burn pretty consistently. But you can run Tribal Flames for fun
>>44595045
No.
>>44595375
If SFM is unbanned, no. Otherwise, probably yes.
The following is just my opinion, so keep that in mind. I'm going to list every card on the ban list for Modern, give my opinion of if it should be unbanned or not, and maybe a couple words why/why not.
> Ancestral Vision: unbanned
Of the 5 blue 'draw X' spells on the list, probably the weakest of the 5.
> Artifact Lands: banned
Would probably give Affinity another win-con via Disciple of the Vault and it's a pretty good tier 1 deck as is.
> Blazing Shoal: banned
lol no, keep your turn 2 kills out of modern please.
> Bloodbraid Elf: banned
Seems fine at first glance, then you remember that it's likely to cascade into K Command, LotV, Goyf, or another 3 cmc backbreaking value card in Jund.
> Chrome Mox: banned
Free mana acceleration is bad, m'kay?
> Cloudpost: banned
People complain about Tron as-is, imagine them complaining about a t3 hardcast Emrakul.
> Dark Depths: banned
Because there's not enough commonly played bounce or LD spells in Modern.
> Deathrite Shaman: banned
Too much value, he's basically a one-mana planeswalker.
> Dig Through Time: banned
Delve on a card drawing spell is too good.
> Dread Return: banned, for now
Dredge shouldn't be a thing in Modern, but if more GY hate, spells cast from GY hate, and creatures entering from other than hard cast hate come out, then maybe.
> Glimpse of Nature: banned
No, we're not going to get Legacy Elves in Modern ever.
> Green Sun's Zenith: banned
Every green deck would run 4 of them, narrows card selection.
> Hypergenesis: banned
Because Cascade is still a thing, and if you think Living End is annoying, this is 100x worse.
> JTMS: banned (but not for the reason you think)
He could probably come off the list, but WotC won't due to fear of Cawblade meta coming back in Modern and card availability. If he became unbanned, he'd be the most expensive card in Modern, period.
Continued in my next post.
Continued from: >>44598209
> Mental Misstep: 1
Every deck runs 4, narrows card selection.
> Ponder: banned
Too good card selection.
> Preordain: banned
Weaker than every blue card draw spell but Ancestral Vision on the list, but still too good because of card selection.
> Punishing Fire: banned
More-so due to time constraints and not wanting matches to go to time every round, plus it provides inevitability for any Jund deck.
> Rite of Flame
Would make Storm too good/consistent.
> Second Sunrise
Because we don't want rounds going to time every round. See: https://youtu.be/zPM2d1q3-Gc?t=13m46s
> Seething Song: banned
Again, would make Storm too consistent.
> Sensei's Divining Top: banned
If you think Miracles is bad in Legacy, imagine every deck running Top in Modern. Games would go to time every round, no question.
> Stoneforge Mystic: unbanned
With the advent of K Command and Abrupt Decay, every color other than blue has ways of dealing with her or the artifact she tutors up. Even if Batterskull stays unbanned, we can kill it with K Command or strand it in their hand with Path, Bolt, Abrupt Decay, K Command, or strip it via Thoughtseize or the K Command.
> Skullclamp: banned
Too much value, would make Affinity #1 deck to beat.
> Sword of the Meek: It's complicated
If SFM is unbanned, this stays on the ban list. If she stays on ban list, this could probably come off, but it'd be closely watched by WotC and if it ever got too oppressive or someone broke the meta with it, it'll go back on the ban list within 3 months.
> Treasure Cruise: banned
Delve on card drawing spells is too good for Modern.
> Umezawa's Jitte: banned
In a format of creatures, Jitte would rule over them all.
Again, this is just my opinion, so take it for what you will.
>>44586016
Ad Nauseum isnt woeful, if you can slow them down and hate them out g2-3, you can gain enough life from them that they actually cant kill you
The only horrible matchups the deck really has is Tron, Bloom and Merfolk. Everything else is winnable. Storm isnt a deck
>>44588434
How does it fair against the popular decks?
>>44598675
Not too bad, it's a lot of pressure to put up with.
creature based decks often have to go into chump block mode pretty quickly, it's faster than burn, twin can be a toss up as we can be too fast but if they combo you are fucked game 1.
If you get taken into late game, you goblin grenade their face and win.
Sideboard right now has Gruul charm for getting through blockers, dismember volley, and earwig squad (no one see's this coming and can be fantastic).
I've been trying to make meme tribal work in modern for a while, and this is as good as I've gotten.
So far for FNM 10-40 for modern) I am 2 4-0, 2 3-1, 1 2-2.
>>44596791
100 Stranglers
10 Eyes of Ugin
20ish Eldrazi Temples (ROE)
200 Blight Herders
>>44598209
>>44598413
your opinion is correct
>>44585240
I usually play Twin but when I suspect there's gonna be a lot of hate or Tron won't show up, I run 8Rack. It beats everything else and has the added bonus of making "control" players question their life choices.
For the moment, let's assume that the anon who wrote a short article about the modern ban list is right, and Stoneforge Mystic and Ancestral Recall get taken off to shake up the meta a bit and give some new toys for the pros to play with for the upcoming PT.
What decks do you think will come out of it?
Will Temur midrange become a thing?
Will Amulet Bloom just be the deck to beat because WotC didn't ban anything out of it?
>>44599418
Temur Midrange won't be a thing, but every Jund player will switch over to Junk if SFM comes off.
>>44598413
I agree with almost everything except Seething Song. Storm definitely needs a boost. Also I want to play the thopter combo.
Looking for constructive feedback.
4 Arbor Elf
4 Voyaging Satyr
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Beast Within
4 Overgrowth
4 Harmonize
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Primal Command
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Tooth and Nail
21 Forest
Sideboard
2 Nature's Claim
2 Beast Within
4 Bramblecrush
2 Choke
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thragtusk
2 Acidic Slime
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
>>44588434
How do the piledrivers perform? Seems like they'd only come in handy against merfolk.
>>44599997
I run RG ramp without the Tooth and Nail combo and it works better IMO.
Take out the E-Wit, Slime, Emrakul, Primal Hunter, T&N, Harmonizes, and Overgrowths
Add in more Thrags, Spellbreaker Behemoths, Prime Times, Inferno Titans, an Urabrask, and Ruric Thars
All my current decks a tier 2 but i love 'em all.
Aura Hexproof AKA Bogles
B/W Tokens
Mono Blue Tron.
>>44598209
>Too much value, he's basically a one-mana planeswalker.
I hate when people say this cause it's bullshit. He'd be actually much worse as a planeswalker, because then you can only have one out at a time and he couldn't attack. He's a one mana creature, and that makes him better
I don't think it's even tier two, but I play Esper Mentor sometimes. A SFM u ban would help the deck a lot imo
Am I dumb or is this playable
>>44600232
Why would you play this over any of the good discard spells we already have?
>>44600232
It's a slower, chunkier but harder to kill vendilion Clique
>>44600226
At this point in time I've given up on the idea of unbans. It won't happen unless wizards is 100% sure it won't effect the meta. Don't bother wishing for a card that will make a deck playable cause they only do that by accident
>>44600263
Because of 4/4 attached to it
>>44600302
>>44600263
What deck would want it
>>44600331
None of the established ones obviously since it needs colorless mana.
Maybe we can have somethingnew
>>44600278
That's how I've felt about the topic of unbans since we got Nacatl and Bitterblossom back. Wizards wants to keep Modern "safe", so I've been contemplating fucking off to Legacy for a while.
>>44600033
What do you do if you don't have a super rampy hand?
Why hasn't anyone made a living end deck with looting cards so that you can discard game ending fatties like Griselbrand and reanimate them with living end?
>>44596138
>>44598413
with Sword of the Meek i think it is more of the thopter combo than anything else
>>44601487
Because GY hate exists, no one's bothered to do the math of what # of fatties are worth putting in a 60 card deck to have enough of a density to be able to be reanimated via Living End and not have them clutter up your hand, and the fact that most of the game-ending fatties that can protect themselves cycle themselves back into the deck upon hitting the graveyard (Blightsteel Colossus, Emrakul, etc.)
>>44601487
>>44601741
No, because most every looting card has a CMC low enough to be cascaded into, ruining the deck.
Anyone here play Zoo?
>>44586016
yeah that's why we see all those token decks in top 8's. oh wait
>>44588540
>notice foil Creeping Corrotion
Wrecking Affinity in style.
>>44600100
Bro fist dude, I play pretty much the same decks. And lately I've been having the feeling that bogles is more like t1.5 or even t1. I mean if you compare it to other t2 decks, I think it's stronger.
>>44590859
Anything that gets enabled by Survival ot Fittest/Recurring Nightmare. And yes, I am mad im not allowed my kind of fun. Can I have Dread Return by now?
>>44598989
You made 1k+ off a bunch of cards still in print? I call your bluff.
>>44601955
i have been wanting to but don't feel like forking up the money for goyfts
>>44602177
Blight Herder is 50 cent
strangler is around 3 dollars
the other two are where anyone would make money.
>>44601645
Thopter Com o want sfm for consistency and backup batterskull/sword beats.
how would you build it
>>44603058
Like jund. With 0 copies of that card.
>>44603058
When did relic of progenitus jump to five dollars? This Eldrazi deck hype is just silly.
>>44603120
jund isnt even that good desu
>>44603339
It is looking like it will be a good deck and a lot of people like to try and get free wins at their LGS by playing something no one knows. If it ends well it might get to tier one point five
>>44603793
They've spoiled a bunch of potentially great Eldrazi in OGW, that'll probably give the deck a boost.
I think I'm gonna get the core now and see how it evolves
>>44603682
Like tron then.which is actually the deck I use.
>>44604034
Strangely enough I HAVE the "core" from drafting with my friends. Since it's basically free at this point I may as well try some build of it out.
>>44604034
Meanwhile all the spoiled allies are shit.
>>44594711
Mine are almost flawless but the new batch might be worse. I got mine lime six months ago. I know the new heritage druids and serum visions are hilariously awful though, and some of the shocks I got are faded (but that's really no big deal).
I feel a need to brew
Abzan Tokens-Infect y/n
>>44604673
>Abzan Tokens
I have tried it - it's shit.
>>44604673
why not Mardu withButcher of the Horde?
What is Mardu missing to be good
>>44604884
A good WB removal spell. Something like Mortify for WB instead of 1WB.
>>44604798
The GB is mainly for Infect. I was thinking Esper but there's not enough support. Human tokens with all those buffs on like Champion of the Parish and shit would be neat
>>44604901
Or even just a Vindicate reprint.
Why is there two modern general
>>44605019
Because whoever started that one is an idiot and didn't check the catalog
>>44604673
n
fold into aether combo with git prob/gut shot enabler?
>>44605051
Always thought that was cute, but that Gifts was the cheaper way to do it: and better, because although Gifts isn't a great card in Modern it's a better card on its own than Fold into Aether.
>>44605051
What would it fold into? Blightsteel?
>>44603058
In standard where you got dig, cruise some looting and high aspirations.
>>44605110
or emrakul
Is there anything like counter/mentor top in this poorfag format?
>>44605660
not really, but twin is similar in that it's a dominant ur control deck piloted mainly by aspies with superiority complexes.
>>44605835
>Superiority Complexes
>Not Storm PlayersI'm a Storm player
>>44605893
Storm is just bad
>>44606198
It's not bad
It's just not great, it's not the storm of yester year
Why are artifact lands banned? Wouldnt it just be easier to get rid of than regular land? I know affinity can use more artifacts under its control but destroy all artifacts seems to completely ruin it.
>>44606236
They were so broken in mirrodin standard that they auto banned them
I think that was the right decision though
Makes it too easy for affinity to splash colors and keep their artifact count high
>>44606236
>I have never seen the artifact lands being abused
Poor summer child.
Can Delver become a threat with the new stormchaser mage?
Flying
Haste
Prowess
1/3
How do I learn to shuffle properly? I am far too slow at shuffling and am afraid that it may be too slow at FNM.
>>44606293
Lol no. Why the fuck do you play that over any other delver creature
>>44606293
Seems like a great card but why delver?
>>44606307
Lol scrub. Do you know the difference between delver of secrets and delve?
>>44606319
I dunno. I've never played the deck and it seems good alongside pyromancer or swiftspear.
What deck would you put him in?
>>44606321
What are you even saying? I asked why run that over any other delver creature, as in, creatures in delver decks. Why play that card over pyromancer, snapcaster, angler or delver
>>44606319
Probably because you need to play a lot of Instant and Sorceries for prowess to be worth it and same thing with delver.
Just like Pyromancer, Swiftpear and maybe that Abbot guy.
>>44606294
Just do one pile shuffle as fast as you can (you can't be THAT slow, piling is easy)
Then hold your deck in one hand with your hand cupped under it, grab a fraction of your deck from the middle with the other hand and put it in the front or back of your deck, real easy, some people are really good at it and can do it 20 times real fast but all you need is 3-5 and it's good to go, hand it over for a cut
>>44606338Because Delver of Secrets is a bad creature
>>44606338
>>44606345
My concern was exactly that, that delver has too many creatures fighting for a slot already, it needs to be stuffed with spells or your Delvers are kinda pointless
>>44606386
Delver of Secrets is actually a horrible creature.
What would a meta look like with ad nauseam as a tier 1 deck? What would have to happen for this to happen? Would the deck be banned for having one of the dumbest mirror matchups in the game?
>>44606386
>>44606408
It is in modern
>>44606386
This. For stormchaser you need spells for him to be defensively and spells to be offensive. Other delver creatures are either not a big enough expenditure of resources to matter when they die to a bolt or they generate value that isn't boltable, like pyromancer
>>44606629
If Ad Nauseam was Tier 1, it means that any deck running permission/disruption has been completely nerfed. It would probably be a horrible meta, anyone and their grandma can build/add on to something to hate out ad nauseam.
>>44606691
>permission
Actually a great matchup for ad nauseam as unlike other combo decks, if you tap out against ad nauseam, you lose. Instant speed combo really makes the control matchup favorable
>disruption
This is more problematic; but it isn't that unrealistic of a situation as decks like GR Tron are keeping disruption decks less and less playable.
This card is insane.
You can drop it on turn 2 and you get a 4/4 that fucks up the opponent's hand on EOT.
>>44606856
>Turn 2
How?
>>44607055
2 eldrazi temple
>>44607055
Urborg + Eye of ugin
4 mana for Eldrazi stuff
Alternatively double Eldrazi Temple
>>44607068
>Urborg + Eye of ugin
Didn't know Urborg tapped for anus mana.
>>44607068
Urborg + Eye doesn't work.
Gives you 2 B and you need at least 1 colorless to cast it.
But double Eldrazi Temple or Temple + Eye works
>>44607068
>>44607063
>>44607099
ah yea I totally forgot it wouldn't reduce the anus mana cost but only generic.
Should I get the new eldrazi deck or should I just stick with GR Tron? Does the eldrazi deck have longevity or is only flavor of the month?
>>44607868
FOTM
might become a real deal after OGW gives it more support
I would w8 and see but I already have my temples and 2 eyes so...
>>44607868
It may be on the rise if we get good Eldrazi out of this set, but the deck as-built is just the flavor of the month.
>>44605029
To be fair, the op pic is pretty shitty for recognising the thread for what it is at a glance.
>>44607868
Eldrazi is cheaper to throw together but I would recommend tron because I like the things I get to do. Dig 5 for G? Check. Demonic Tutor for any land? You betcha. Throw haymakers like no other deck in the format? Oh baby! One anon described it best: It's like boxing with claymores strapped to your gloves.
>>44607868
It's unlikely that they'll ever be able to top Tron, but the Eldrazi certainly show a lot of premise
I want to do something fun with Savage Ventmaw. Anybody do anything fun with it?
Hey I have been thinking about what the goblin deck in modern needs the most and I think it is ringleader.
>>44607924
To be fair it's an eldrazi so I think OP could be thinking about all the stuff around them right now
>>44608279
So you are telling me that the solution to a deck whose problem is running out of gas is a card that nets you 2-4 and has a body with haste?
This is genius! You have broken the ancient unbreakable riddle that everyone and their moms have already figured out since the talk of modern goblins was reignited when Piledriver was reprinted and every pointed out that the deck has a gas problem. God bless you anon! I can only hope the history books don't forget this inspired post.
>>44602062
Yeah bogles is definitely tier 1 of the the tier 2 decks if that makes sense.
Are there ways to tutor up sorcery cards. So many times I'll be in control of a game with my tooth and nail deck but can't draw T&N.
Instead I end up beating face with Garruk tokens
Welp I pulled the trigger on this Eldrazi meme
Hopefully it'll work
>>44608440
i know it took a lot of research and endless mathematics but i finally cracked the code
>>44608544
Should be fun all the same. If it doesn't work out, you can always transition into tron.
>>44608609
>transition into tron
Lol they don't even run similar cards outside of like Relic and spud map
>>44588540
It is possible
I play it and i do pretty well
If i were you i would cut scoozes for skites, aspect of hydra for coco
I dont really like treetop village, it has fucked me over alot. i would just get a 4th baloth
I also only have 18 forest so i can have surrak and thrun
>>44608699
Eye of ugin anda desire to make big mana and cast big threats.
>>44602104
My man
Ive been playing survival/nightmare casually since 1998 when it won the world championship
I put sneak attack in it too, and i built a full power EDH deck based around that combo and a few other game winning ones
>>44604391
Yeah
i have most of it from last set, but didnt buy the eyes :(
Oh well, ill just turn my winnings from prerelease into a set
>>44606377
Please don't pile shuffle, it wastes time and doesn't randomize your deck
>>44607868
Stick with tron unless you have most of the parts
>>44606641
I'm a legacy delver player, i was surprised how bad Delver actually is in modern. If they had actually good cantrips you could build a good delver/pyro aggro deck
>>44588576
just new deck hype
it'll go back down
>>44590859
Tendrils and Grim Jar.
Amusingly the former slots into the later perfectly.
Will the price of ugin go down after he rotates out of standard? Is new ulamogs price stable or will it go down?
>>44590859
Memory Jar + the opponent playing doomsday
I splashed blue in my Eldrazi meme deck for Ashiok and Delay
>>44606404
I briefly contemplated dropping (shockingly) Tiago. Same CMC, but aggressive and evasive rather than CA.
Don't know that I like it.
Will this see play in modern ad nauseam?
>strong hate for infect ad nauseams worst match up
>removes spellskites as well something else that can prevent ad nauseam from winning
>can counter discard spells something that can destroy ad nauseam
>even relevant in the control matchup as it can remove snapcasters, cliques and both twin creatures, slowing control down considerably
>gives mana acceleration if nothing else is necessary
Seems odd to say, but this card seems like a potential ad nauseam staple. I can see ad nauseam adding some colorless mana just to cast this spell.
I think this will be very good in the deck
Its free most of the time and it should be pretty big too
>>44608507
Anyone?
>>44609122
No. Why would that be better than bolt or path.
>>44609122
It works with Isochron Scepter
It could be super broken
>>44609175
Bolt and path don't help you accelerate to six mana when its other abilities aren't necessary.
>>44609148
Also Conduit of Ruin
I think hes better than oblivion sower because he fetches you kozilek, ulimog, void winnower, and he makes them cost 2 less
>>44609202
Path can. I'm not seeing why you would play it over a cheaper, on color spell that's less narrow
>>44609185
Scepter already has Boros Charm, and it's still too slow and vulnerable for most people's tastes.
>>44609154
You can tutor for an instant with merchant scroll. That's the closest you'll get I think. Unless you're running black. You could try infernal tutor or beseech the queen. Tutors are offten very narrow in magic. Try searching gatherer.
>>44609227
I've seen a million "this is broken with isochron scepter!"'s, none of them are
>>44609224
Ad nauseam doesn't run creatures though unless you count simian spirit guides which are never actually played except in the mirror where acceleration is irrelevant.
>>44609242
Merchant scroll only gets blue instants though
This meme seems less and less relevant every day now
>>44609242
*in modern
>>44609258
There are just so many better sb options for that matchup
I'm honestly surprised that Jund/Abzan haven't started running 1 copy of Splinterfright like how standard decks started doing towards the end. The reasoning is:
1) By the time you draw and play it, it's more than likely going to be quite large
2) A single copy of a graveyard reliant creature isn't worth bringing in graveyard hate for
3) Him slowly milling you powers up himself/Goyfs/delve, AND finds copies of Lingering Souls
I understand that he's 3 mana, but it's not really going to matter by the time you're playing him. The biggest problem I can see is that he doesn't really fit in your curve, but to me it seems outweighed by the upside.
>>44609221
He's a bit slow, comes down on turn 3 at the earliest and doesn't do much
>>44609085
I was think something like swiftspear, stormchaser, snapcaster, then the usual accompaniment of cantrips, bolts, terminate, and k-command
>>44609271
Shoot, that's right.
>>44609293
Honestly I think it has potential to be a main board card for ad nauseam as either a 2 of or 3 of, it hates on so many different decks in modern, many of which are bad match ups, while also being useful to your gameplan.
Only potential problem would be figuring out what lands you should use to play this.
>>44609122
Infect can pump with just a pendlehaven or another spell and it really wouldn't matter in the long run in the ad neuseam match up/
Pretty good skite removal, agreed there, but there are better like Twisted Image that also help against Infect.
Discard spells come down turn 1-2 80% of the time so I can rarely see this countering something of value, ie something that matters against Ad.
If you are actively trying to control the board as ad, especially agaisnt Twin, then frankly you are playing the game wrong.
The ramp is just to fringe to matter most of the time and if ramp is your goal then there are much much better ways of getting there.
>>44609306
But the deck plays 4 oblivion sower
it costs the same and it just exiles cards, maybe you get lands
conduit gets you a wincon that you have no other way to get in the deck, and it gets cheaper
2 oblivion sower 2 conduit of ruin
>>44609256
Orim's Chant and Boros Charm are the best there is, with Remand playing second-fiddle to either.
>>44609392
It's literally just Eye of Ugin on a stick and Sower ramps better
>>44609495
what if you dont have the fatty in your hand? conduit smooths the deck out
i cant believe someone is arguing against card search
>>44609383
>Infect can pump with just a pendlehaven or another spell and it really wouldn't matter in the long run in the ad neuseam match up
Thats why you use it in response to them using a spell, granted that might not work later in the game, but it does buy you time which is vital in the infect match up; it gives you the chance to survive to turn 4.
>spellskite removal
But it also has far more utility than twisted image.
>Discard
True, but it gives you a chance to recover in case they have more discard. Which gives it some nice utility along with its other abilities.
>If you are actively trying to control the board as ad, especially agaisnt Twin, then frankly you are playing the game wrong.
The control match up for ad nauseam is very slow unless the opponent is bad and taps out turn 4. It usually results on the opponent attacking you with a single snap caster or clique until you either win or fail to assemble your combo + protection. Removing a creature can buy you extra turns to get enough pact of negations to win.
>The ramp is just to fringe to matter most of the time and if ramp is your goal then there are much much better ways of getting there.
The ramp simply means the card isn't dead in matchups where its other two abilities aren't important. It makes your ability to win on turn 4 more consistent.
>tooth and nail
Keep hearing it here lately. Is it any good?
>>44609533
I just don't see how it's better than Sower when you have other cards that do what you want it to do anyway
>>44608507
Transmute spells if your deck is built for it. Muddle the Mixture is easily the most modern playable one.
>>44609576
Is Tooth and Nail any good? Well in EDH it's basically 9 mana win the game on the spot if that means anything to you.
>>44609640
I guess I meant the modern deck based around using it for Emrakul and xenagod
>>44609547
Not him but
>Thats why you use it in response to them using a spell
Are we talking about proper infect pilots or "my big brother has given me his modern deck to play at FNM" here? Nobody casts 1 pump spell a turn leaving no other mana open, especially against Ad nauseam, nor do they cast every pump spell in responce to one another they just alpha strike for an OTK after a few turns of 2 infect, 2 infect etc. The only time this is proper infect removal is catching an Elf/Agent the turn they come down (assuming said turn is 1-2 and they have no mana/pendle open) and that scenario is as fringe as fringe gets.
Also as far as the "discard counter" goes, I have seen very few games that Ad Nauseam recovers from a t1 Thoughtseize and you would think that you would rather have something to dig as opposed to have something in case they decide to fuck you over further.
>>44609790
Ad nauseam also carries fog effects in the side board, meaning that an attempt to finish an ad nauseam player is risky as it could lead to them being fogged. At worst this card forces an infect player to over commit to protecting a creature making fog better and at best it can 2 for 1 an opponent. This card also makes using ink moth nexus early risky.
Over committing to digging against heavy discard decks is risky unless you can combo quickly after, as it can lead to you wasting all your resources only to be discarded again.
>>44609738
Why would you Tooth and Nail for Emrakul when you can Tooth and Nail for Kiki+Resto or even Iona+Servant?
>>44608903
You're fucking stupid
First of all, you can inject randomness into your pile shuffle by mixing up the order you place cards in the piles, maybe this pile gets 3 cards before you go back to the other pile, if you do capriciously and without pattern, you're randomizing it
And secondly, I never claimed that one pile shuffle was all it takes to go from a completely organized deck to random
If your deck is completely piled out by function or cmc, and you pile shuffle once, then sure, the deck isn't random yet
But for practical purposes, assuming your deck is already SOMEWHAT randomized from previous games, a pile shuffle is perfectly acceptable as a randomizer
