Bonus: How many Grots would it take to take down a terminator marine?
>Totally need some dick right now
Technically the answer is always one. He just needs to be very lucky and/or have a nice big gun.
>>44566773
1-27 guardsmen depeneding on chapter/ origin of guardsmen, area of fighting, etc.
>>44566773
One.
>>44566773
Cultists with satchel charges were killing Chaos marines in one book, Cain also took one down himself.
>>44566773
10
no more, no less
>>44566773
For the Tactical, it probably wouldn't happen. There's really no way for a Guardsmen to kill a Space Marine in CQC.
For the Terminator, 500 Grots, minimum, on a good day.
>>44566900
Well yeah, one Tanith guy killed a Chaos Dreadnought with a fucking lasgun.
Your fluff is shit
>>44566928
Guardsmen can use sticks with contact explosives on the end, your argument is invalid
>>44566773
One or two catachans.
Their melee attacks are power melee, you know.
>>44566932
To be fair, it was a one-in-a-million shot that nobody else even believed happened except those who were there to witness it, and the Chaos Dread was totally blind and already wounded if I recall correctly.
>>44566900
Cain is also described as being exceptionally powerful in close combat, and he nearly lost because he couldn't match the raw endurance of the Berserker until Jurgen shot it in the face with a meltagun.
>>44566773
A ridiculous number, or a ridiculous amount of luck.
>>44566773
Taking into account various factors I'd say 3,000 minimum.
What about statistically on the tabletop? Taking into account how many models can be in base contact and so on?
>>44567763
Guardsman strikes Marine: 50% chance to hit, 33% chance to wound, 33% chance for armor to fail to save Marine=~5% chance of a kill.
This doesn't take into account how the Marine has a good chance of killing the Guardsman first.
>>44566773
The Space Marine is moving far, far faster, has better combat reflexes and is generally probably a better warrior in every virtual way. He is also strong enough to perform fatal unarmed blows on areas that aren't actually biological weakpoints and tough enough to shrug off impacts that would cripple normal Human beings.
This is all without equipment, in which the Astartes basically gets a second advantage in every possible medium, almost as significant as the biological advantage.
It isn't a question of how many Guardsmen anymore, it's a question of how long it takes for one of them to get supremely lucky. Chances are any number of Guardsmen you throw at a Space Marine will die, assuming nobody is permitted to take ranged weapons.
>overload the powercell in his lasgun
>jump back and throw the lasgun and cell at the marine
>the explosion kills the marine
All it takes is one really good one.
>>44568094
And even in this situation the marine is liable to survive/dodge/kick it back/kill the guardsman first.
>>44566932
Wasn't that one's armor already chewed up by an aurocannon or was that another guardsman?
Tabletop? Dependent on luck.
Fluff? Dependent on author.
>>44566773
Infinite unless they are wielding weapons that can penetrate power armor. Anything besides Catachan Knives will bounce off power armor, and Astartes will be killing guardsmen with single punches- single hits from Space Marines is enough to turn people into gory mist or send them flying ten meters and getting embedded in the wall.
>in close combat
>all these faggots talking about non-close combat things like throwing exploding lasguns or shooting the marine
>>44571135
this, autism doesn't read.
>>44566773
For fluff; that eversor in hh was a top bad ass and he had a hard time, and that one lucifer black was able to stab Alpharius (ineffectively) I'm sure luck/plot armor would have a lot to do with it.
For crunch; my guardsman neighbour always manages to kill a squad of my zerkers with his blob of guardsmen, but has a harder time with the plague marines, IDK.
I see them having a really extra awful day with the terminator.
*has Tyberos ever fought orks? How bout gretchen, that would be fucked
>>44566773
two
>>44568439
>Tabletop? Dependent on luck.
But what's the expected value?
>>44566928
Given that the guardsman hits on a 4+, and wounds on a 5+, combined with the marine's armor save of 3+, means a guardsman has a roughly 1 in 18 chance of killing a marine in close combat.
So the law of averages probably means around 9.
>>44566900
>Blood for the blood god!
>He can have yours
Cain is such a fucking boss.
>>44572283
That is either a misnamed file or a clueless artist.Cain uses a las pistol not a bolt
Reminds me of the Eye of Horus podcast episode where they wondered how many cats Rogal Dorn could eat before getting suffocated in a 1984-like scenario (captors put a box over your head and introduce animals into it).
>>44567579
>Cain is also described as being exceptionally powerful in close combat
Fluffwise, he's probably one of the best swordsmen in the Imperial Guard, period. Which is both a bit less impressive than it sounds, since he's a duelist by training and thus has some trouble with crowd control, and that a purely human duelist wielding a chainsword gets outmatched pretty quickly by bigger and meaner enemies.
That said, that book had a great primer on how GEQ can best deal with CSM: There Is No Overkill. They busted out multiple krak missiles per marine.
>>44572780
Of course, it takes just one Sister of Battle with her trusty Meltagun
>>44566773
Guardsmen tend to have krak grenades, melta bombs, chainswords, and power swords for high officers. Depending on which guardsmen has what weapon, it might take a shit ton of guardsmen, or it might take one lucky guardsman.
We can mathhammer this pretty easily. You guys are on your own for Fluff Marines though. A Guardsmen hits a Marine on a 4+ (50%) and wounds on a 5+ (33.3%), with the Marine saving on a 3+ (66.6%). So every attack from a Guardsman will cause 0.0555 wounds. You need to throw 18 attacks to cause 1 wound on average.
So figure that out to one squad rapid-firing into a marine, or a squad suicidally charging one.
>>44573094
Time to watch this podcast I guess.
It depends on armament mostly, and what sort of guardsman. Astartes can't just tank everything, in the Sieg of Vraks there's a Khornate berserker that busts into a bunker and gets his ass fried by a guardsman with a melta-gun. The guardsman gets swarmed seconds later, but the point stands.
>>44574036
>IN CLOSE COMBAT
one fucking guardsman in a tank turret can kill a marine too so fucking what
>>44574522
>ERR MERR FERKING GERD CLOSE COMBAT
>>44568025
>any number of Guardsmen you throw at a Spess Muhreen will die
A line regiment of roughly 8,000 men with empty lasguns and bayonets. Company commanders, commissars and regimental command staff very likely to be outfitted with power weapons.
The marine dies, deal with it.
>>44574948
>>ERR MERR FERKING GERD CLOSE COMBAT
Blame OP for that but at least have some basic reading comprehension.
>>44574522
are you counting 'close combat' as melee? because meltas require you to be fairly close to a target.
>>44572984
that's an actual ciaphas cain book cover. all the covers for the books are like that, with wrong or oversized equipment. because the covers are propaganda and not representative of the real man.
>>44574948
Well if we are specifying melee weapons only and the space marine had a power weapon I actually don't see that going to well for the line regiment. A guardsmen's Bayonets don't work on anything in the universe. That's the joke of "Apply Bayonets". So the only threat would be the officers as everyone else is effectively unarmed.
>>44574948
Those power weapons actually will be completely useless if the Astartes has a power weapon that can parry.
Marine weapons are longer and his arms possess greater reach, so actually a Space Marine with a power sword could spin in place endlessly like a blender. Nobody could assault him, even with power weapons- their reach would be too short and they'd get tagged by the rapidly spinning blade.
The marine only dies of dehydration.
>>44566773
5 Brock Lesnars
