Star Wars edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
I'm looking for a black library mega account, similar to the one in the OP with a ton of 40k/warhammer books categorized by theme and author.
Anyone got a link?
How should I outfit my Interceptor squads? There will be at least 2 incinerators (2 squads or a full 10 man squad combat-squadded), but should I give them anything for melee? Is giving them falchions too expensive?
>>44489781
For Grey knights, i'd keep the weapons cheap. halberds are almost never worth it, as you have manner hand anyways. I'd just keep the interceptors with 2 incinerators and a teleport homer. Combat squad them so that 2 incinerators are in 1 squad and the teleport homer is in the other. You can put a hammer if you want, but i usually only put hammers on terminators, and even then only 1 per every 5.
>>44489813
>manner hand
hammer hand
>>44489813
That's how my army's getting built mainly. Incinerators on the interceptors, 1 hammer with each of the terminator squads (the rest are swords), homers with the interceptors. The main purpose of the interceptors is to shunt forward and provide a safe spot for the terminators to DS to.
The only halberds are going to the terminator justicar for challenge purposes and to the libby HQ for the same reason, and also because it looks cool. Are they at least worth it for that?
Although I'm not sure about using the Nemesis FOC. Ideally, I want two separate interceptor squads so I have 2 teleport homers in case one dies, but if I go that route, I can't include a stormraven, and that's pretty much my only anti-air option.
>>44489877
don't put special melee weapons on characters. Always put them on generic dudes so your opponent can't challenge them out and kill them. Hide those special melee weapons
>>44489903
HQs are fine for special melee weapons though. Mainly just the justicars you want to avoid special melee weapons
>>44489903
>>44489929
Yeah, I'm keeping the daemon hammers on generic dudes and off of the justicars for that reason. I was hoping that giving the termie justicars halberds would just give them an extra bit of edge in case they were challenged by someone important.
>>44489996
You can if you want, but I have trouble hitting a multiple of 10 for points if I start throwing halberds around, so I avoid them. Not hitting the point cap on the dot irritates me.
>>44490029
Yeah same here. Right now, with the random halberd and the hammers I'm at some point level that ends in 7, 9, or 3 and it bugs me.
>>44489996
Personally I am a fan of falchions on the Interceptors. Sure it raises their cost but it gives them more attacks and more attacks is always good. I've seen my interceptors blend all kinds of units short of TEQs with those twin swords. It's amazing
>>44489996
>off of
Do you mean "off the justicars"? no native english here, this confuses me, is not the of not needed
>>44491256
Could go either way, they mean the same thing. The "of" isn't necessary.
>>44491256
It's unnecessary sure, it's just a nicety sort of thing that comes from keeping the action in its entiretythat was used wrongly in the post you're quoting. For example the action "Take off" would have an of after it.
>>44490942
Would terminator falchion hands fit interceptors or are the hands bigger in scale? Go figure, the interceptor kit only comes with 3 sets of falchions.
This might belong in a modeling thread but: can anyone tell me if the cheap Cadian snap-togethers (the 5 for $10 guys) have separate heads or are they moulded on?
>>44489903
You can't really help it with some Marines and especially Orks. Nobs with Power Klaws are a core tenet.
>>44491459
The terminator ones are slightly bigger but they shouldn't look too out of place.
What are your opinions are the best/most important 40k novels?
>>44491412
>>44491441
Thank you.
>>44491629
One of the best right here.
>Threadly requuest for IA 11 update
>>44489697
>Star Wars edition
>playing CSM against vanilla SM
>enemy warlord challenges you
>yells out traitor and tosses aside Storm Shield
>mfw
>>44489697
The worst Warhammer 40k model of 2015 as chosen by you /tg/, is the Stormsurge.
Congrats to the artists and sculpters that put this thing together. And to everyone that bought one. Thank you and good night. And may the new year bring us less models like this.
http://strawpoll.me/6414068/r
>>44492056
Pffff who was the idiot that voted for the new BA Chaplin
>>44492031
aw man, now I have to make a new model
>>44492056
What were they thinking when they made it?
So what's more bullshit /tg/
Warp Spider weapons that wound on initiative and S6
Or grav weapons that wound on armor and immobilize vehicles on 6s.
>>44492118
Grav weapons, no fucking contest
So for incinerators, would 3 falchions, an incinerator, a hammer, and a teleport homer and melta bombs be a decent all-around loadout?
>>44492110
>A lot of people started Tau armies and got a bunch of riptides
>Since Riptides are pretty fair and balanced, this can only mean people love giant robots
>Let's make an even bigger one!
>But just so its flufdu, let's not give it a jetpack or arms. Those would be silly on something so big.
>>44492110
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUhRKVIjJtw
>>44492194
>Since Riptides are pretty fair and balanced
If that was meant to be a joke, it wasn't funny.
>>44492118
against my army of daemons and no armor? warp spiders
>>44492148
Grav is only bullshit if you play bullshit yourself. Don't be spamming all those 2 MCs and superheavy vehicles and grav wouldn't even be able to touch you.
If you actually stopped and thought for a moment you'd realize the problem is scouting jinking White Scars skilled rider bikes, and psychic powers. No Librarius/psychic abuse? No Censtar. No godly bikers? No grav bikers. Because grav command squads on foot or in a pod or grav tacticals are SO GOOD AMIRITE
>>44492194
I'm going to go with this.
>>44492202
Needs more "shut up and buy more models, nerds".
>>44492028
Pity it's so late or I would upload a few more pictures.
What are you looking for specifically?
>>44492110
They wanted the Tau to have a proper Lords of War choice for the codex, probably.
Let the loser codices have HQ characters be LoWs.
>>44492277
I didn't know if there was a scan of the corsair/eldar list/units, but thats a lot to upload.
>>44492245
Grav is more bullshit than monofiliment, calm the fuck down.
>>44492324
>calm the fuck down
So how often do you spam this?
>>44492245
>me gob when I play a Green Tide against a grav spammer
>"So what's the highest armour save in your army?"
>"6+"
>"Oh..."
>>44492324
>grav CAD so stronk
Bad players shouldn't participate in discussions about what's good.
>>44492342
Never
>>44492360
So grav is worse than monofilimant?
>>44492324
Yeah it is. I will see if I can upload high quality pictures of all the corsair stuff tomorrow. Might just keep assembling my daemons and Eldsr though. Depends on my mood.
>>44492110
Well, /tg/ hated it when abbadon had no arms, and they hate tau, so lets make a tau robot with no arms!
Pic Unrelated
>>44492355
This happen to my friend. Our usual Necron player thought he was going to be plying something different. Necron guy meted super hard and took played an entirely different list than usual.
>hfw friend pulled out green tide
>hfw he took nothing but grav guns
So funny. Needless to say he would've got stomped. My friend decided to let him play his usual necrons, and then necrons and wraiths do what they do. .....
>mfw i hate necron players
>>44492110
They probably ran out of development time at 75% completion and just put the already avalable pieces together.
>>44492493
kekd
>>44492406
You can't compare it in a vacuum, and it depends. Warp Spiders are a ridiculous unit in a ridiculous codex.
Grav is a ridiculous weapon, depending on what you're shooting at, from a kinda ridiculous army that's weaker than Eldar.
There's never a situation where Warp Spiders are bad. People only whine about grav more because it's more common in marine armies, marine armies themselves are far more common, and everyone refuses to play against Eldar to begin with.
>>44492110
Looks fine to me. The only odd parts are the turret and the open cockpit.
Most bullshit Codex update of 2015:
If you think the Eldar Codex is most bullshit because it's OP then vote it.
If you think the Blood Angels Codex was the most bullshit because it got nerfed to hell then vote that.
If something else peaked your autism then vote that.
http://strawpoll.me/6417402
>>44492406
>grav
>has to stand still to get max shots
>has to aim at 2+ armor targets to be good
>has to have tons of them to blow up tanks
>can't immobilize common things like knights
>costs tons of points
>monofilament
>IDK my BFF WK?
>>44492561
>can you spot the guy who actually owns one
>>44492574
>needs psykers to ignore cover
>needs psykers to reroll to hit
>needs grav amps to reroll wound which are heavy only, 1 slot per squad, only found on cents, and even more expensive
>>44492056
It looks like a mech from Battletech
>>44492580
What's wrong with it? I like the Chimerical look. Unique among the Tau. As I've said, the only odd parts are the turret and the cockpit.
should i make this a tesseract vault or an obelisk
>>44492661
My problem with the Stormsurge isn't the design (other than the open topped cockpit), but the execution. It has that same ugly overly round CAD look that Centurions, Skaven Stormfiends, and weird propoertions that the Taurox has. It just doesn't look as good as old designs. It has Dreadknight syndrome.
>>44492562
Well alright. Eldar are far and away in the lead.
>>44492574
Monofiliament is cheaper than grav, but needs 6's to ignore armor, grav ignores it and can still be shot at 3+ saves to make back its points. Monofilament has the same range as grav or shorter, but is on a more mobile unit. Monofilament cant damage heavy armor at all because its S 6. Nothing can immobilize knights, they're super heavies you retard.
>>44492056
I think the Destroyer missiles would look better if they were on his back as vertical-launchers.
>>44492699
>grav ignores it
So does plasma, melta, etc.
>3+ saves
Which is completely irrelevant, except maybe against things like Tyranids or armored DPs, who themselves are already irrelevant.
I don't really see why this is even a comparison though. Monofilament isn't an army wide option or a defining faction weapon. Plasma vs. Grav would have been a better comparison. Or Melta vs. Grav.
Melta is still good enough to not automatically drop in favor of Grav so I don't think Grav is super OP.
>>44492664
Obelisk, don't even think about the Tesseract
>>44492699
>Monofilament cant damage heavy armor at all because its S 6
And grav is even worse than plasma since i hits on 6, even against AV10.
>Nothing can immobilize knights, they're super heavies you retard.
The point was he's likely going "hurr grav Op cuz immobilize on 6". So yes, its' relevant because you can't immobilize knights which are everywhere.
>>44492733
I choose the comparison because it's two weapons with really unique rules.
>>44492664
Only Obelisk is an option.
>>44492760
Monofilament doesn't have a unique role. The chassis it's on does. Warp Spiders could have fucking fusion guns and it wouldn't change much. What high initiative army doesn't keel over to jetbikes and WKs?
>>44492056
>30 new models
>people said Skarbrand looks bad
Jesus Christ. Somebody also voted for the BA Chaplin. WHAT THE FUCK?
>>44492110
I honestly think it was done on purpose. To show how retarded the Tau are.
>But that's bullshit!
I hear you cry. Okay, then why, dear anon(s), did the first campaign book with them in mention one of them being taken out by rocks falling into it's cockpit?
That cannot have been some wacky idea to kill them by the writer. It MUST have been a "heh, let's make the Tau make this big Titan Killer, but don't put a fucking roof on it and rely on a shield" and they killed it off that way.
GW has already made a point, via novels and releases, that Tau are throwing the codex of fire out the window. They've given up on the agile tactics they used because it's just not good enough against the forces they're facing. Hence Breacher Teams, Stormsurge, Ghostkeel and Tau'nar.
Imperial Armour 14 will likely reinforce this more.
The Stormsurge is basically the idea that Tau think themselves invincible and their technology infallible, that they don't need a cockpit to protect their dudes. Look at Tetra's and Piranhas. They don't have them either.
>>44492775
Necrons and Tau would beg to differ.
>>44492779
Tetras and piranhas are scout vehicles. You wouldn't armour up a motorbike it would defeat the purpose of it.
>>44492806
Warp Spiders aren't the deciding unit when playing Necrons or Tau using Eldar.
>>44492664
not even a necron player but damn that is a nice model and it builds 2 superheavies along with a jojo posing god
>>44492813
They did have armored motorbikes in real life history. I think their roles changed though because they were no longer fast. Some of them looked like one man tankcycles.
>>44492779
I'm pretty sure your reading too much into it.
GW used to have silly shit like that happen all the time before they got "srs shit"
Pretty sure it was just a cheap laugh, not some illuminati is actually a Tzeentch cult tier conspiracy against the Tau.
Remember when Formations used to cost extra points on top of the cost of the units instead of just making them better for free?
>>44492779
>Look at Tetra's and Piranhas. They don't have them either.
To be fair, those are fast moving scouting and recon forces. You wouldn't expect them to be heavily armoured, it would defeat the point. Ideally, they don't get shot at.
By contrast, the Stormsurge is designed to be shot at. It's a giant immobile artillery tower that gets plonked down on a gunline and is supposed to weather everything thrown at it whilst throwing out massive firepower. It's a walking Bastion. So making it open-topped just makes no sense.
I do love the idea that the Tau are thinking of themselves as invincible purely because in the 40K universe, thinking you're invincible is a sure-fire way for the galaxy to fuck you over six ways from Sunday, and the Tau are long overdue a solid fucking.
>>44492245
>Grav
>still gets to fire multiple shots on the move
>is good on targets with as bad as 4+ armor save
>even one has a decent chance of disabling an enemy tank
>cost is in-line with other special and heavy weapons despite being far and away the most versatile and efficient weapon
>>44492827
His point stands though. The Stormsurge was designed to be a durable defensive suit. Visibility is less of a concern than making 100% sure all the dangerous weapons coming towards it don't kill the pilots.
>>44492827
Let me tell you how un armored a real life HMMWV was before they got their extra armor after getting Akbared
Fucking nothing. It was literally a light truck they strapped a HMG to the top.
They should have put D monofilament weapons on that war spider wraithknight
That'll teach those filthy monkeigh
>>44492870
>solid
Anon, I think the proper way to describe it is a rape on a scale that leaves every sexually mature Tau woman pregnant, and scars the Tau psyche that every Tau has PTSD.
>>44492866
That's bullshit
>>44492884
>Visibility is less of a concern than making 100% sure all the dangerous weapons coming towards it don't kill the pilots.
And that's why it has an open cockpit!
>>44492866
I think the much bigger issue is how wildly varying the power levels and restrictiveness of Formations have become.
That and GW hasn't had the decency to spend a weekend updating a bunch of old Apocalypse formations, throwing in some new ones, and putting out a 40k expansion that gives everybody a decurion and new formations.
>>44492882
Grav is hardly the worst thing in the game when gauss and eldar USRs are free. Grav aren't tabling people left and right. Tau and Eldar are. You guys also fail to mention their incredibly short range. Even the Vindicator had better/more easy to use range and stronger weapon and yet nobody uses that shit.
>>44492914
I think one of the marine formations that were among the first to come out had a small tax.
>>44492956
No I believe it, but it's just a bad thing to do.
>>44492838
>GW used to have silly shit like that happen all the time before they got "srs shit"
Absolutely, but there's a crucial difference here: that doesn't fit the Tau aesthetic.
No-one blinks an eye when the Imperium has silly shit. It would make a shit-load more sense to mount the weapons on a Warlord Titan on a tracked chassis instead of an immense walking target. But that's not how the Imperium works. We, the players, accept that because that's how they're presented.
Same with Orks. The Orkanauts have an exposed pilot at the top. But that makes sense for Orks, who want to get a good view of the battle and think armour is for sissies.
There's always limits though. The Space Yiff dread with an exposed head on the front is dumb as shit, and players called them out on this. Same with the Dreadknight. You have to get the right balance for the faction. Giant walking cathedral or mechanized sarcophagus is the right amount of silly. It's important to note too that the Penitant Engine has an exposed pilot, but gets away with it because the pilot is seeking penance. It's supposed to be a punishment, so exposing yourself makes sense. Grey Knights have no excuse.
The Tau have always had trouble fitting in with the older, sillier 40K style. They're very much a product of the newer design ideas. Crisis suits with samurai swords would fit perfectly in with the silly aspect, but open-topped Stormsurge is just stupid. It makes no sense in a galaxy that runs on Rule of Cool.
>>44492939
>>44492956
Most of the formations should have been encouraging people to take weaker models or giving benefits for spending their points on less efficient things. It feels like most of the new ones ignore most possible restrictions and just say 'hey, take whatever'
>>44492939
i would buy that dlc.
>>44493044
Everyone would. It's baffling why GW hasn't done it.
>>44492779
>>44492813
>>44492827
They had the TX Piranha which had an armored cockpit.
The Tau aren't so much throwing out their way of fighting as much as they are adapting it. The R'varna and Y'Vahra were made by a sept that has become accustomed to siege warfare, so they are obviously siege/anti-siege weapons and they were designed by one guy. The Ta'unar was made by the same guy who has been making the anti-siege weapons and it has the same purpose. The Stormsurge is a direct response to Knight Titans, but unlike the Ta'unar it's not a static weapon because it's supposed to get ferried around by Mantas like the Broadside gets ferried by orcas.
Its design reminds me of the Dawn of War broadsides more than anything because of the way they anchor themselves in and then sort of lean into their shots with thrusters.
>>44492562
I'd have thought the Tau would be up there a little more with all the hate recently.
>>44493081
Because GW thinks rules don't affect model sales
>>44493093
Goddamnit I love their design in DoW1. That animation where they root themselves in the ground is so fucking awesome.
What's the most casual friendly fun Ork list possible?Weirdboy spam?
>>44493103
What did the Tau really get that's bullshit? The ghostkeel, stormsurge, fluff, and some formations.
The Eldar got scatterbikes, D-galore, ridiculous army-wide buffs, and a higher number of bullshit formations.
>>44493173
Any of them
>>44493173
You'd have to try pretty hard to make a non-casual-friendly Ork list.
>>44493093
The difference is that you can carry more than one broadside in an Orca, and several in a Manta. The Stormsurge needs an entire manta with nothing else to lug it around.
>3 Chaos Termies, Power Mauls, Combi Flamers, MoK
>121 points
Is this a good distraction/anti light infantry unit?
>>44493173
gretchin only
>>44493183
Stormsurge, combined fire cadrea, riptide formation, drone formation. Not a whole lot but they were already strong in 6E just behind on power creep.
Stormsurge alone is already huge, one of the best units in the game. Stormsurges regularly kill WKs, what does that tell you.
>>44493183
Eldar only use CAD when min/maxing. The formations are downgrades even though some of them are amazing.
>>44493225
Well there wasn't a huge intake of bullshit, just two models and some formations/contingent rules (I'm leaving out the Damolces add-ons since this is just codex). Eldar got bullshit EVERYWHERE
And fuck you if you think the drone formation is OP, I've been dreaming of BS3 gun drones for years
>>44493213
drop mok and deep strike them in. if they survive they'll be in the back field distracting the enemy
>>44493272
Not him, but the Drone formation is very nice if you only take Marker Drones. It's only about 200 points for all the squads you need, and that gives you 4 super-mobile more-durable pathfinder teams, with 16 markerlights total. That's in addition to any other Markerlight drones you take on other units.
It's a very good source of Markerlights. It's not gonna break anything on its own, but combined with something else it'll be great.
>>44493210
It's funny because, based on the fleet that Shadowsun uses in Kauyon, Mantas are more common than Orcas, althought she only deployed about 15 modified ones for carrying Stormsurge. She deploys like 47 Mantas in Prefectia. Even the Enclave has Mantas.
>>44493272
And the only thing marines got was grav and centurions in 6E and battle company in 7E and look what happened. You don't need an entire revamp to become a top army.
>>44493225
Clearly the WK needs a durability upgrade. Eldar update when?
>>44493322
Well I'm taking BS3shield drones
>>44492993
>The Space Yiff dread with an exposed head on the front is dumb as shit
Eh, it's pretty much a helbrute and at least they gave a fluff reason (no matter how flimsy) for why he doesn't have a helmet on.
>>44493328
Mantas are light cruisers. Using them as drop-ships means less for any orbital battles that ensue.
Aside from that, if she has 15 for carrying stormsurges, she's giving up 120 Crisis suits, and 60 Hammerheads.
>>44493328
She sures likes to spam big white whales.
>>44492813
But they have light metal/plastic shit that could be put on. I doubt it'd make it so much heavier it'd be useless. I mean, one novel says they modify them if there are snipers i think.
>>44492870
I get your point, but, I dunno. The mention of the rocks killing it just seemed like a nod to "Rocks fall, everybody dies". It just seemed odd. There can be noway this was designed accidentally. It was done for a reason, I just hope it's "we don't need a cockpit cause of glorious shields!"
>>44492884
The cockpit protects them, it's only if somebody throws a grenade that passes the shield and lands right in the cockpit there is a problem. Otherwise it hits the sides and shit.
>>44492993
But it does make sense if you view it as "We're so brilliant that the enemy would never get in range to damage the pilots in the cockpit, even if they did somehow bypass the glorious technology of our shield generator!" it fits the "We're the best!" mentality of the Tau. That they're egotistical and trust their technology so much that they don't think of that shit. They trust their AI completely, for example.
>>44493374
>Eh, it's pretty much a helbrute
And this is exactly the issue. The Helbrute gets away with it because it's a daemonic engine with a pilot infused with the machine. Players accept that because it fits with the chaos aesthetic. The Space Yiff dread does not, and the utterly pathetic fluff reasoning is evidence that GW knew it didn't make sense either. They didn't need to put some bullshit fluff in to explain the Helbrute, because it fit with the aesthetic and existing fluff for Chaos.
>>44493408
They can make return trips
And Mantas are only technically light cruisers, they're really heavy dropships but they're used as bombers in fleet engagments.
Although them actually having mini interstellar drives is hilarious.
>>44493408
Stormsurges are artillery. Their power is multiplied by the amount of firepower that they can provide. I'm sure in fluff they are even more powerful and have longer range.
>>44493430
>it's only if somebody throws a grenade that passes the shield and lands right in the cockpit there is a problem
Oh, well that's a relief. After all, when would there ever be people throwing grenades at you on a battlefield?
>>44493424
>47 Mantas, 20 Orcas
>Protected by FIVE FUCKING FIGHTERS
A single Lightning fighter wing should be causing havok on that entire strike force.
>>44493472
I assume it's the typical composition of fighter squadrons. In any case, Mantas are so ridiculously well armed that many Tau players sent them alone while keeping all the fighters in interceptor mode in Battlefleet Ghotic.
>>44493472
There are more bombers than fighters.
But those are actually supposed to be squadrons so there are probably lots more than 3 fighters.
Maybe 9 or so
Farsight's seems to have stealth ships besides 12 Mantas in Mont'ka.
>>44493525
Farsight continues to be more awesome than Shadowbore
Rhinos/Drop Pods/Land Raiders are Assault Vehicles. Units may assault from deep strike if they purchase a special upgrade. How much does this help the assault phase?
>>44493472
They are the number of Squadrons of fighters.
>>44493432
I don't like the concept either, but I think they did make it work fluff wise. It's obviously a fucked up wulfen chaos thing, so it would need to be destroyed, but as it's a dreadnought which are just about all relics and the space wolves are quite pragmatic and "muh honourable death" they're keeping the thing around and letting it destroy itself in battle.
Makes more sense to me than a little story about them finding a frothing mad dreadnought in space wolf colours and blowing it up.
>>44493556
It helps the marine assault phase.
>>44493458
> I'm sure in fluff they are even more powerful and have longer range.
You mean like how in fluff hammerheads are also more powerful and have longer range? It's almost like they already have artillery that doesn't require a personal spaceship babysitter.
>>44493433
>They can make return trips
Which is even more Crisis suits or Hammerheads that they can drop in instead.
>>44493586
The Stormsurge carries Spaceship's level weapon. It's going to be more powerful than a Hammerhead's railgun no matter what.
>>44493584
Well, yeah. I'm not exactly familiar with Nids or Orks, so I didn't say anything.
>>44493556
what if the army can already deep strike? otherwise you helped out the loyalists and made assault ramps/open top useless but that's okay
Which Necron units can deepstrike, outflank, teleport, infiltrate or whatever?
>>44493620
assault phase is hurt by random charge distance and units getting overwatch buffs and lack of FUCKING ASSAULT GRENADES
What happens if a Grey Knight Champion challenges and the opponent refuses. Does the Champion not fight or just fight like a normal model would without the stances?
Stormsurge should have been a fucking walker.
>>44493625
If they can already assault from Deep Strike, they won't have to get the upgrade, I guess. But idk, I ain't exactly a rules expert.
>>44493650
You're preaching to the choir
>>44493620
In the previous codex orks used to have assault from deepstrike in the form of zagstruk and a squad of stormboyz. It looks good on paper because hey, it's assault from fucking deep strike! The thing is though if you looked closer you'd see that it's just a very expensive trick that led to you losing an expensive squad very quickly.
>unit of 20 max
>12 points per stormboy
>d3 die on impact
>overwatch eats a few more
>you get chopped up first in CC
>after you swing back you either kill a squad leaving your battered unit out in the open, basically trading units or stay locked in combat with zagstruk popping a git in the 'ead at every morale check
>>44493617
>S10 AP 1 Railgun
>S10 AP 2 pulse cannon large blast
That's a pretty sizable upgrade. And Blast weapons are far more useful for Titan killing.
Still, you think that'd be a better reason to try mounting those Strength D railguns or those Strength D Destroyer missiles on something they already have rather than building something new from the ground up.
Or, that Manta that dropped it in could use it's actual Spaceship weapons to blow up whatever the problem is that way.
>>44493648
you the grey knight player get to pick a character to sit out that round of combat and they can't use their leadership. read up on the challenge rules. challenges are also not their own separate dimension in a fight. after the characters fight the rest of the squad can swing at them. keeper fights a marine captain, captain survives so now the squad can throw krak grenades at her.
>>44493650
we all know this
>>44493464
It's highly unlikely anybody would ever make it to the Stormsurge. Then throw a grenade. The grenade to be on target (while under fire!) and somehow bypass the shield, land, and the pilots not to realise and throw it out of the cockpit.
I mean, it's not like there are hundreds of suits, Fire Warriors, Riptides and so on shooting you. Or not like the Stormsurge, you know, that big battle suit, trying to stamp on you.
Shrug. I still maintain it was done because the Tau never expect anybody to make it to the position of throwing a grenade into the cockpit. Which is pretty well placed.
Green Tide
149 Shoota, Choppa, and Big Shoota
10 Nobz 5PK, 5BC
1 Warboss PK Big Bosspole
Unbound
Painboy
2 Deffkoptas w/ Rokkits
3 Deff Dreads 3CCW, 1 Skorcha, EA
How does this list make you FEEL.
Fun List vs CSM player (asked what he wanted to face and he said Green Tide)
>>44493723
Pretty sure they get how challenges work, and are trying to figure out how that characters rules, which are geared towards challenges, work outwith a challenge.
>>44493722
I've seen this argument before. The problem was, the Manta's were too much of a risk and if they went down it was a problem. While Tiger Sharks were too easily taken down and were also a lost of resources.
The Stormsurge was able to do multiple things and was less of an investment than Tiger Sharks. I mean, sure, they have S10 weapons, and sure, they can be made S:D via a formation. But the Stormsurge is just better for these things. It also has a shield, the Tiger Sharks don't.
You're essentially going "Why use a tank when we could use our nukes?"
>>44493736
But what about rain? Or snow? Or hail or toxic rain or hail shards or sand storms or any harsh weather that disrupts the cockpit's function?
>>44493721
Zagstruk hit at I4 with his PK
Too bad Grotsnik can't outflank assault with Ghazghkull anymore hue hue hue
>>44493760
welp i'm not paying attention it seems
>>44493813
>>44493736
>Surely no one will ever think to attack the pilot in the cockpit!
Yeah, that's dumb. Especially since a roof costs them nothing. Why leave off the roof? What benefits does not having a roof give them?
>>44493851
Maybe they get claustraphobic
>>44493556
I'd like to see some rules brought in to allow for thes kind of tricks. let's get some ideas going.
All units can now charge after outflanking if they pass an initiative test before the charge is declared but suffer the same -2 charge penalty.
Introduce new special rule: Ambush.
> /Some warriors excel at encircling and catching their prey unaware, waylaying their opponents with a devastating flank-charge/
Ambush: If at least one model in the unit has this special rule they auto-pass the initiative test made when attempting to charge in the turn it arrived from Outflank.
(Ambush would be given to units such as Kommandos, Lictors, Raveners, Blood Claws, Seekers, Mandrakes, etc.)
Thoughts?
>>44493777
No, I'm going: "Why use a tank when we could use our aircraft?"
The answer being: "In case there is something the aircraft can't reach due to incoming fire, and we need something heavier.
In which case, I point you to the Riptide and Hammerheads, which already do that.
Even if they did need something even heavier or more long range, making a larger hammerhead would have been a more logical first step.
>>44493885
Yeah, I'm sure those Battlesuit Pilots and Tank Crews just hate enclosed spaces.
>>44493921
Well they're hammerhead pilots
>>44493801
Oh yeah, old zag himself is was nothing to sneeze at and the stormboyz were pretty much just a very expensive bubble to get him into CQC. Fun gimmick, shame it's gone but man I quite like how zagstruk works these days now as well. He may not kick dreads down to size anymore but that flying klaw hammer of wrath is a load of fun. He's taken out both mephiston and an archon with that 2++ gear with it now.
>>44493933
>>44493921
>Tank Crews
>>TANK CREWS
>>44493903
Stop applying logic to 40k. It is bad for your health.
>>44493957
So we're in agreement. The Stormsurge makes no sense.
Glad we can move on.
>>44493955
Those hammerheads seem pretty roomy for two people since one's got the gun.
>>44493973
Stormsurge, battlesuits, and walkers would be stupid in real life. Having artillery it is not.
>Tau rules mentioned
>Tau asthetic mentioned
>Tau fluff mentioned
>Tau mentioned
>>44494012
Only an idiot anchors his Stormsurge.
>>44493947
2++?
>>44494005
>Having artillery is not
Which the Tau have in spades without the Stormsurge. So again, glad we've resolved this.
>>44493786
Shield.
>>44493851
Dunno. As I said, the designers must have done it on purpose to make Tau look shit. Even GW's designers aren't that fucking stupid. As I said, the cockpit would have meant setting up environmental controls and shit inside it. I dunno. As I said, they think the shield is good enough to protect them.
>>44493903
Combined arms. Tau have no artillery, that's what Stormsurge fills. So, Infantry, Aircraft, Transport, Tanks, Suits and finally Ballistic Suits (Artillery).
Next, you're also applying logic to one of the most illogical settings around. Why the fuck do the Imperium spend time, money and resources on building an Emperor Class Titan when they could have spent that on like 10,000 Super Heavies? I mean, that's just illogical.
As I said. Tau had done it out of egotism and their superiority complex. They don't expect anybody to fuck up their suit.
What ALSO doesn't make sense, is the Stormsurge has insane range in fluff, but not in tabletop.
Just stop looking for logic in 40k. Only insanity and damnation awaits you.
>>44494005
They probably went with Riptides and Stormsurges instead of some superheavy hovertank version of the Hammerhead because Eldar superheavy hover tanks don't sell but suits and giant robots do.
>>44494060
Artillery... What? What artillery do they have? I can't think of any "this should stay static and shoot".
>>44494078
>Tau have no artillery, that's what Stormsurge fills.
Broadsides? Skyrays?
>>44494078
>Just stop looking for logic in 40k. Only insanity and damnation awaits you.
The warp is really logic in 40k?
DEEPEST LORE
>>44493973
Neither do Knight Titans, or Titans, or Storm Talons and Ravens.
Why are you calling Stormsurges stupid, but not them? Why? Look, if you hate Tau, hate them, but you're poking logic holes in something where they're much more evident elsewhere.
Tau have the excuse of "it's protected by shields".
>>44494100
Artillery doesn't HAVE to stay static. If you could have mobile artillery, that would be amazing. IRL it's static out of necessity. This entire point is the literal entire theme of the Metal Gear franchise: adding extreme mobility to artillery/ICBMs.
>>44494078
>>44494100
>Tau have no artillery
Riptides. Hammerheads. Skyrays.
>I can't think of any "this should stay static and shoot".
Broadsides. Skyrays. Hammerheads.
>>44494114
>Broadsides
Tank Destroyers.
>Skyrays
Anti-aircraft plattform just capable of hitting things on the ground.
Neither has blast.
>>44494046
It's called a shadow field. Gives you a 2+ invuln but if you fail one of the saves you lose it.
>>44494163
Hammerheads had blasts but those are kinda MBTs. Seems like anything with a SMS would be artillery.
>>44494114
Not artillery. It is, if anything, a SPG. Broadsides move and aren't expected to stay still. Next you'll tell me Devastators are artillery cause they have big guns.
The Stormsurge literally anchors itself down so it can't move, just because you don't do that on table top, doesn't mean it isn't.
It's a ballistic suit meant to stay still and shoot things.
Why is the Tau'nar allowed?
Tau don't use indirect artillery bombardment, it's all direct fire or guided indirect fire
The Ta'unar's pattern bombardment is the most obvious exception
>>44494078
>>44494129
>Shields
That might be a good point, if the Shield wasn't an optional 50 point upgrade.
>Knight Titans, Titans, Storm Talons, Ravens
The Imperium isn't developing new tech though. They're operating off of scraps of knowledge, and their giant stuff is all built off technology they don't fully understand. They can't just scrap an Emperor Titan to make more battleships.
The Tau, conversely, spent time and resources building and developing the Stormsurge. Games Workshop is trying to tell us that this is the most effective gun-platform they could come up with.
>>44494201
>Broadsides move and aren't expected to stay still
>Main guns are heavy
>No Relentless
>Why is the Tau'nar allowed?
I don't personally like the Tau'nar either, but at least it actually does what it's supposed to and doesn't look completely stupid.
>>44494133
Riptides aren't artillery, if you're not JSJ with them, you're using them wrong. Hammerheads are fucking tanks. Skyrays at AA. Broadsides don't stay static, are Devastators artillery then?
Broadsides and Skyrays don't have blast.
>>44494132
Exactly, which is what the Stormsurge is. It's a mobile artillery platform. Everything else said to be "artillery" isn't artillery.
>>44493813
Fuck it. I want to call indirect artillery support by employing Markerlights.
Stormsurge is actually...quite fast. Also real-life artillery often has to be mobile enough to avoid counter-fire.
>>44494232
So, your problem is it looks stupid? I think the Hammerhead looks stupid. Devilfish too. The flyers as well.
I don't then go "it looks stupid therefore it is stupid".
Broadsides have blast? I don't think they do. Not really artillery now, is it?
>>44494210
yeah but the fluff always assumes it has the shield, and since we're talking about a hypothetical situation where somebody somehow survives, gets to a Stormsurge and somehow get a grenade on target (and the pilots are retarded and don't drop it out of the side) then it'll hit the shield.
I dunno man. GW must have told their designers to do that.
>>44494244
>Broadsides don't stay static
You do know their Rail rifles are all heavy, right?
>Hammerheads are fucking tanks
They can mow down hordes from long range just fine. Is it bad to have artillery that can also perform as a tank?
>Skyrays are AA
And anti-ground. Their missiles aren't exactly only anti-air. They're also infinite range with markerlights.
>don't have blast.
>It's a mobile artillery platform.
So how does the Riptide not qualify?
>>44494280
You're thinking of SPG's, not artillery. Modern armies still use artillery. Anchored Howitzers and so on. SPG's like Paladins and so on can move. Problem is, unfortunately, that they need to be near FOB's and shit as they can't take a lot of ammo with them. Besides, counter-fire isn't a problem since modern armies don't fight each other any more.
>>44494201
>Broadsides move and aren't expected to stay still
Their guns are heavy and they're not relentless. If they move they have to snap shoot. So, no, they're completely immobile. They're kind of the defining unit for why so many Tau lists turn into static gunlines - they can't fire and maneuver, but they put out a prodigious amount of firepower if you get within three feet of them. The other part of that equation would be Pathfinders, who also can't fire and move and you need in order for Broadsides to actually do damage.
Granted, the new books give us the Retaliation Cadre and the Drone Net VX1-0 so it is possible to get a limited amount of mobile Broadsides and pretty much any list is going to replace Pathfinders with Markerlight Drones to make them... better at everything.
>>44494207
For what purpose?
>>44494286
>Broadsides have blast? I don't think they do
I wasn't saying they were. I was saying that they can't move and shoot. Do you even know what the stats on a Heavy Rail Rifle are?
>So, your problem is it looks stupid?
No, that's just a problem that it has that the Tau'nar doesn't. Another problem is that it's tabletop stats don't represent the 'mobile anti-titan artillery' as well as the Tau'nar.
Neither makes sense from a fluff perspective, but at least the Tau'nar has the right guns for it.
>>44494314
Because the Riptide has a jet-pack. That's not a hallmark of a artillery piece. Artillery don't perform as tanks. Broadsides are not plopped behind the lines and shoot shit. Basilisks do.
>>44494244
>are Devastators artillery then?
Literal IG artillery and marine artillery don't stay static either. Basilisks, Wyverns, TFCs, can all move. Broadsides were the Tau artillery.
Really, I think the Stormsurge's Pulse Driver should have a range of 120 or more with such a large gun.
>>44494368
I'm not talking bout stats, I'm talking about how it isn't an artillery piece. It's considered a battle suit. Not a ballistic suit. Tau, the very faction who made it, do not count it as an artillery piece.
also, how does it not make sense from a fluff perspective? is it not possible that they're changing their tactics due to the stuff they're fighting? The Eldar are forced more and more to rely on Wraithguard and so on, that isn't "not making sense" just cause they're forced to adapt or die.
>>44494368
>Do you even know what the stats on a Heavy Rail Rifle are?
While I agree with your point (and I'm not who you're replying to) literally no one uses Heavy Rail Rifles anymore. HYMPs look retarded but they do work.
>>44494380
>Broadsides are not plopped behind the lines and shoot shit.
I'm sorry, what? That is literally what they do. You make a battle line of guns, and then you shoot them until the enemy is dead. Unless you're running a new-fangled Dawn Blade list almost every Tau list is as much of a gun line as a guard list, if not more so.
>>44494407
48" is considered long range and 72" or whatever it is is considered the "miles and miles and miles artillery forever" range. It's either those options or just infinite range like Deathstrikes which are ICBMs.
>>44494401
>can all move
They're SPG's, not artillery. This is artillery and you can buy it from Forge World.
Marines use a different tactic, which is speed. They do have the Thunderfire Cannon, which can move, but it's rarely used specifically cause it's slow.
>>44494380
>That's not a hallmark of a artillery piece
I'm pretty sure that if the U.S. Military could design an artillery piece that could fly away when the enemy got close and still fire its main gun just as effectively at them, they'd love it.
Why does being able to move and function at a multitude of ranges preclude something from being artillery?
A Riptide can sit back, fire Blasts, and move if it needs to. A Hammerhead can sit back, fire Blasts, and focus down enemy tanks if it needs to.
>>44494407
anon why do you want to be shooting things across the room when your foe is only 24" away?
>>44494401
Um, the ones you listed are SPGs, too. IG does have proper artillery in the Earthshaker Platform (and IIRC we got a Manticore Platform, too).
>>44492056
I like it, looks suitably alien and less anime-esque, legs could do with a bit better design but otherwise I love the oddness of it
>>44494430
Broadsides move into a position, they don't sit way behind the front lines to shoot. They're behind the Tidewalls with the Fire Warriors. Unlike Basilisks and Manticores are behind that.
>>44494463
Because there are other tables in the room, and I'm still sore over the buttblasting that Dave's cheeselord bullshit Elfdar gave me last week >:(
>>44494437
>>44494463
Because the Basilisk has a range 36-250.
>>44494492
I'm talking about rules, you're talking about fluff. In practice, they both do pretty much the same thing on the table in terms of where they're positioned on the battle line at the start of the game. Sure, you can put barrage weapons behind LoS blocking terrain in your own deployment if the table has it, but that's not always the case.
>>44494416
>I'm not talking bout stats
And I was. That and looks are the only reasons I find it at least tolerable, while the Stormsurge isn't.
I never said I had the best reasons, but I don't hate both equally, and that's why.
W-why does it matter if it's "Artillery" or not.... can't you guys just like.... ignore things you don't like....
>>44494535
You realize where you are, right?
>>44494516
The basilisk shoots solid rounds up. The Stormsurge shoots pure energy straight. All that energy is going to dissipate.
>>44494516
You mean 0-240 since you can direct fire it
>>44494495
>Mfw the Tau player accidentally scatters into my deployment field on the other side of the room at a different game.
It was one time steve, one time!
>>44494464
Why would Tau have artillery that can't move? The entire point of the Stormsurge was to house the prototype gun which was fixed to begin with.
>>44494518
Oh right. Yeah.
>>44494535
Reee.
>>44494527
Very odd thing to hate. Shrug. You don't think the flying box of Stormravens/talons is retarded? Or the flying doghead?
>>44494484
To add though, get rid of that little red head, that's all
>>44494615
>You don't think the flying box of Stormravens/talons is retarded? Or the flying doghead?
I don't really play marines, so I have less investment. That said, the Imperium is working with what they've got, and are highly against modifying things. For all I know, those flyers could have some sort of anti-gravity system that not even the Marines really know about.
>>44494712
I'm talking about why they're shaped like a box, you know, a bad shape for a fighter aircraft.
I want to add some Harlequins to my Dark Eldar for psychic support. Tried running Craftworlder Farseers but they stomped so hard I felt like a dirty WAAC faggot so that's not an option. Going to add Shadowseers to my Grotesque squads so they have psychic powers as well as Hit & Run. Might stick a handful of Death Jesters in for kicks too.
For Harlequin Troupes though, how should I configure them? I'm thinking 2 guys with Embraces (any more is probably hard to get enough into base contact for HoW reliably), 2 with Kisses as generalist weapons, one with nothing to be a bullet shield in overwatch, and the Troupe Master with a Caress because he's got the highest chance to make use of that old-style Rending. Stick all 6 guys in a Starweaver and call it good.
Or I should keep them cheaper and run only 5 dude squads? Or go even more expensive and run 5 dudes + Shadowseer? No fucking clue how to equip these guys.
>>44494767
Aerodynamics matter less if you have anti-gravity tech, and the box shape could just be due to how their armor is designed to work.
Besides, it'd be boring if it was just a copypasted F-16 or something.
>>44493813
Fluff: Ork Super-heavy Walkers are so powerful that the Tau must develop special new, increadibly strong weapons to deal with them
Tabletop: Stompas are overpriced shit.
>>44494615
>Oh right. Yeah.
As an addendum, one of the biggest ironies of the Tau in general is that most of their good stuff is capped at 36" as their longer range stuff generally isn't considered good (Heavy Rail Rifles, Hammerheads). It's pretty much just the Ion Riptides and sometimes Stormsurges, but more and more people are realizing Stormsurges are actually better suited as counter-assault units that prevent your more fragile units from getting caught in combat (and can squish entire deathstars underfoot). Anyway, the point was that other than those two big guns most other army's big guns actually outrange "the" ranged combat army. Something to keep in mind any time you play against Tau - if you can keep 42" inches away and still hit them they can't actually shoot you back.
What really irritates me about the Stormsurge is that the rules and the fluff and the model all suggest different things. The model is literally open topped and clumsy as fuck and suggests it's cumbersome and vulnerable, the fluff portrays it as a huge, slow long range gun platform, but in the rules it's one of the fastest, most close-combat oriented units the Tau have purely because it's a GC with a lot of wounds and good enough toughness. It's completely schizo. If it was a SH walker instead of a GC at least the whole open-topped thing would have rules relevance, but it would still be way too good in close combat for something that literally doesn't have arms. The only way it would have made sense rules wise is as a non-superheavy that just has a very good invuln, good front and side army, and at least four hull points. Anything else makes it way too resilient against anti-armor and way too effective at squishing dudes in close combat.
It's the poster boy for the disconnect between aesthetics, fluff and rules, really.
>>44494244
>Riptides aren't artillery, if you're not JSJ with them, you're using them wrong.
In real life artillery moves too. Counter-battery fire is a bitch. Even in World War 1, enemy artillery pieces were targeted first because their killing power was feared and respected.
>>44494571
What really surprised me was that it still hits side armour when direct firing. That was a rude shock for my Battlewagons a few months back.
>>44494244
I would JSJ with the Riptide if the board wasn't so small.
I mean usual boards are 6x4. You're not doing a lot of moving up or back when you have 3 feet per side.
>>44494846
*All Ork walkers are over-priced without exception*
I fixed your spelling error for you :)
>>44494928
What?? No no when it direct fires it loses the barrage rule
>>44495071
Big Mek Buzzgob's
>>44494886
Artillery moves, when it needs to be moved. In real life, if you want mobile big gun support (something which is basically being phased out) you use SPG's.
This picture is artillery. It does not move. It's anchored down. Obviously rules dictate it's worse off anchoring down than moving.
>>44495140
Haven't gotten the chance to use it yet but honestly 1StrD shot at BS5, Lifta Droppa, and 3 Big Shootas doesn't really impress, honestly think it should be 300-350
So my friend and I just played our first game of 40k, so we're kinda shakey with the rules. While playing, his terminator killed some of my necron units in close combat. Since they all had reanimation protocals they got back up the next turn, but it appeared strange that they would reanimate right next to the terminator and then not be engaged in close combat. What's the proper rules for this scenario?
>>44495342
... what version of the Necron rules are you using? Reanimation doesn't work that way anymore. It's basically just a Feel No Pain roll with slightly different rules now.
>>44495086
Doesn't say that though.
>>44495342
>so we're shakey on the rules
Like everyone who plays Warhammer40k.
However you need to tell your friend to get the 7th Edition Codex and stop using the 6th edition Codex.
>>44495368
The most recent? What's the Feel No Pain roll? I read in the codex that on a roll of a 5-6 they get back up...
>>44495386
>>44495387
Or actually you need to get the new Codex.
>>44495386
Hes using the 7th edition
>>44495387
The way it works is that if you fail a save, you roll Reanimation. If that passes, they don't die. It's like a save after a save, but it's not technically a "save" (similar to Feel No Pain). It doesn't resolve at the end of the phase, but at the moment when they would have been killed and removed.
>>44495412
How do you pass the reanimation save?
on a 5 up like we thought?
>>44495371
We played it that way because it just made sense.... that literally means there is no disadvantage to direct firing (not like there are very many to begin with)
I honestly think they shouldn't be able to direct fire either but I'm an Ork lol
>>44495412
>>44495342
Reanimations are taken after your armor or invual saves and after your feel no pain. Roll them immediately after like an armor or invual save. If failed they take a wound if saved then nothing happens.
Reanimations can be taken even if "no saves are allowed" and take a - 1 penalty if the weapon being used is has the instant death special rule or is twice your toughness.
Reanimations cannot be taken on stomp and D strength weapons.
>>44495435
5+ generally, but there are modifiers. If you're in a Decurion it's 4+, and there's other bonuses that let you reroll 1s, and I think if it's an attack with instant death it's -1 (instead of no roll at all the way FNP works).
>>44495469
What this guy said.
Flash gits should have a 3+ save
>>44495469
Wait i thought reanimation was only not allowed on a 6 result on the D chart
>>44493556
How about any dedicated assault unit (ie no gunz) can assault from Deepstrike
Units don't have to roll their charge distance if within 6 inches of their target
>>44495554
At least 4 would be nice
>>44495554
Warriors should be toughness 5.
>>44495651
No, double toughness instant death should just be removed
or be made double +1
>>44495664
>need STR7 to ID puny 'umiez
No
>>44495664
No, a rail gun should be able to one shot a Centurion.
>>44495692
>>44495686
Then what the fuck is the point of a multi-wound model with t4 if a stray krak missile can kill it in one hit?
>>44492056
it is 2 arms away from being a decent model in my opinion.
>>44495708
How much are Warriors right now? 40 points?
>>44495708
A missile should be able to take down a T4 model. You're using a fucking missile.
Warriors should just be T5.
>>44492056
>Close the cockpit (FUCKING WHYYYYYYY)
>Have two arms using hte missile pods like a broadside
Suddenly the model is fucking fine
>>44495741
30 ppm
>>44492914
Nope. There were formations that were like 50pts. plus the models you took, etc. Now you get formations that cost just the basic units and they get free shit to boot.
>>44495749
And Nobz should be Toughness 5 with higher leadership than the Boyz they're supposed to be "leading"
