Gurps is actually not so bad.
Only the organization of the Skills is a disaster.
>Only the organization of the Skills is a disaster.
How exactly?
>>44452304
I concur with op. Bad grouping in the sections. Things organized exhaustively and alphabetically, instead if say, thematically by game genre, or by generic setting.
It can be daunting to new players. Took me years to have a faithful understanding of the basics that didn't require blind flipping through the book.
For example: there is no pickpocket. There is filch, and holdout. Neither of which you would think of first, in general gaming nomenclature.
>>44452304
I would have liked a classification. Crude example:
>Physical skills
>Mental skills
>Social skills.
>>44452486
They have that in the character generator software; a natural reflex of design necessitating function.
God if only they would reprint the core books with better formatting. Pity munchkin is their money maker. ..
>>44452450
This guy has it expressed better.
>>44452450
There's another pdf they put out called skill categories that sort of did that, although it really should've been in the main rulebook like you're saying.
>For example: there is no pickpocket.
Actually there is, pic related
>>44452266
Absolutely right. Really, that applies to the whole basic set.
The skills lists near the back of the book are a good way of browsing skills.
I want to run Ghost in the Shell, which books should I get? I looked at High-Tech but it didn't seem to have what I needed.
>>44452486
There's the Skill Categories pdf that cuts things up a finer than that, to a useful degree. Could have probably been better placed in the core book if possible, sure.
>>44452450
> Took me years
> 3d6
> roll under
> compare differences on contests
> everything else is just pre-set stats
> Took me years
>>44452266
The skills are in alphabetical order; how is that disastrous? You just... look it up.
If you mean you have to list off a bunch of skills for each character they've got wildcard/general skills for that. eg, if you just want your character to have a general understanding of basic sciences, without putting more than a few points into any; just to have it at basic IQ, then you take Sciences! at like 2pts. Then, if you want to get'm really good at a specific kind of science, you start putting more points into that one science's specific skill.
>>44454244
to play Cyborgs just give all the PCs the Machine meta-trait and a Mindlink; with appropriate gizmo traits. That's all in the Basic Set too.
>>44454244
Ultra-Tech, though honestly even that's iffy. GURPS got really good in 4e, and Ultra-Tech was a hastily updated cut and paste job of its 3e counterpart that was released near when the new edition hit. It's not useless, but there are weird bits/quality issues you don't see in latter books.
That being said, the situation is far from hopeless. Like I said, UT is weird in places but it's not useless. Also, while SJGames isn't willing to shell out for a full update/fix of UT, fixes have trickled in through other sources, mostly their monthly e-zine Pyramid. Next time there's a GURPS general, ask there and chances are you'll get some recommendations. If that fails, the official forums are actual a pretty nice place with responsive devs and a non-toxic community.
Lastly, as cool as the tech in GitS is, there's more to running a GitS game than tech alone. The Mysteries book can provide good advice for writing up missions, for example. For more practical stuff, there's "The Hunt" rules from Monster Hunters. While MH is very solidly in the Buffy/Supernatural/WoD: Hunters genre, its approach to investigation is generic and substantial enough to be used in any genre. The Transhuman Space books should give you stats for any robot body you could possibly need; note that all the *rules* are in Basic Set, TS just does the work for you.
>>44455348
The "basics" of a system extends beyond core dice mechanics; "d20+x roll over" is simple as pie, but that doesn't mean learning 3.5's large spell list, shitton of classes and class-specific mechanics, often nonsensical rules, etc., is a walk in the park. Years is probably an exaggeration (playing even once a month should still get you familiar with the system in far less than a year), but it's a bit much to deride him like that.
Though this might be some weird troll to make GURPSfags out to look like bigger condescending assholes than we actually are.
>>44452266
My biggest problem is with the varit of skill default rather than a flat penalty or rolling at base.
It's realistic yeah but their force you to pretty much memorise all the skills even if you don't take them.
>>44455647
That's awesome advice, thank you anon!
>>44455647
You don't have to have, dare I say, most of a game memorized to play it; but how could you still be "blind flipping," in the book after a year? I learned GURPS on a weekend whimsy one Sunday by skimming the core and combat mechanics, and then generating a dozen or so characters. My ribbing is in the conext that it honestly did take him a year, which it probably didn't, you're right, but if it did: it is a ridiculous prospect.
Plus those 3 rules comprise much more of GURPS than d20's d20 rolls; short of the lists and derivative statistics they're basically it.
>>44455685
It's a pretty logical organization though.
Things that most people can do = Easy (Df: -4)
Things that require a little effort = Average (Df: -5)
Things that mandate training/experience = Hard (Df: -6)
Things for specialists/experts exclusively = V. Hard (Df: -6)
That said, and this is part of why people saying, "I'd totally play X system, if it weren't for Y mechanic/variable/system/etc," because; House Rules!
We run it that the Default for any given skill you don't have is -4, and if you have a tangentially related skill you can use it at -4, or a directly related skill at -2. We, of course, do this in favor of more generally capable characters. If you wanted a grittier/realer tone with the same houserules you could just make them -6s, and -3s.
>>44455406
Alphabetical order is fine if you're looking up the rules for a skill that's already on your character sheet, but if you're trying to make a character from scratch you have to read the entire list even though you're not going to need 90% of the skills on it. As >>44454300 said, the PDF that groups them into categories like "social" and "combat" mostly fixes this, though IMO they should have put that in the book right before the skill list.
>>44452486
3rd edition did this and it sucked trying to look up skills during play
>>44456569
Not him, but from my experience: remembering, say, the fuck to roll/multiply to determine knockback or blunt trauma or what modifier is it (at least approximately) to climb a tree or attack at dusk or what weapons have 0U or..
I mean, remembering it after one (!) weekend – good for you, anon. Most of the rules haven't even come up in my first weekend – hell, even first month.
>>44458660
This. If you know what skills are you looking for, then alphabetic order is much better. Then there is free PDF with skill categories:
http://www.warehouse23.com/products/gurps-skill-categories
