Surge is the only interesting mechanic edition.
>>44432805
Everybody's gonna call it "Comparative Anal", just like the last time..
so instant speed Divination?
you know this garbage in standard right now right?
at least its just a common.
>>44432852
Deep Anal just works, Comparative Anal isn't really a thing.
>>44432805
Is this meant to be remotely interesting? Call me when it's UU.
this'll go great in my standard pauper deck
Any dragons?
>>44433024
Yes
>>44433024
yea, a 7 mana 5/6 that can be cast for 5, with Surge, and if you do, it bolts a player or creature.
>>44433024
Fuck off Timmy.
I have a suspicion UR Eldrazi could be a thing, with Shivan Reef, Herald of Kozilek, Spacial Distortion and Kozilek's return, there's all the makings of a good control deck.
The Red Kozdrazi needs to cost 7 though for Kozilek's return
>>44433055
5/4, not 5/6.
>no real ally support other than those shitty kor
Fuck you wizards, how can I hope to make a deck out of your products when you don't even give the support
>>44433759
by playing a better format
>>44433895
I have kazandu blademaster and hada freeblade but I want to make a good standard ally deck
this is a neat one.
>>44434059
>HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO HOLD
>ALL THESE ELDRAZI
>>44432993
He said the mechanic was interesting, not that particular card, which is obviously just a decent common for limited and not a card pushed for constructed.
>>44433759
We have given you all the tools you need to make an ally deck! You just gotta work with what because having good cards in standard would be power creep and nobody actually wants that. : )
>>44434059
>"My only regret is having bonitus"
>>44434093
7/10 impression
>>44434093
>power creep
>siege rhino
8/10 made me rage, well played
>>44434001
Wait til April, that's really the best Standard advice at the moment. This set isn't going to affect the meta except for maybe boosting Ramp decks a bit.
Once Khans and Fate are gone the ball is really going to be in anybody's court. When the card pool is universally bad, you can basically play anything
>>44433123
Throw in some cheap control stuff like Rush of Ice or Clutch of Currents to give you some breathing room when needed, and yeah I can see that going decently.
Is there any other viable standard ally build outside of the b/w lifedrain borefest?
>>44434199
Also Horribly Awry, can't believe I forgot it
Spoiler season is upon us, rev up those "This looks amazing in my EDH ;)" copypastas to reply to every new spoil.
>>44434246
no, because all the allies really do is give shitty evergreen effects beyond Kalistra Healer.
Rally really is the shittest mechanic because they didn't even attempt to push even one of the cards for standard play.
>>44434246
Hahaha, no. Rally was limited fodder garbage so there isn't a single good card with that mechanic and all other allies are allies in name only.
>>44433759
Yes, because these are all the cards in the entire set.
The entire set has now been spoiled.
>>44434323
>Rally
rally could have been great if they gave it more support and better effects, like maybe blue draw, or green +1/+1 counters or black lifelink, but over all they just didn't push it well enough
>>44434267
But Stone Haven Outfitter IS perfect for my EDH deck.
That said, my EDH deck is 'flavor-focused Nahiri'
>>44432805
The difference between that card and inspiration isn't worth the text on the card.
Ohh boy! it costs 1 less mana sometimes! Amazing.
>>44432887
>He doesn't know about booty lineups
I wish two-headed giant were a format worth playing outside of draft.
The only people who seem to care about this new set are EDH shitters.
>>44433759
dont play toxic mechanics
>>44434475
Just how stupid are you?
>>44434267
That one card is perfect for my PTQ winning deck! xDD
>>44433123
Grixis eldrazi
>>44434272
>Rally really is the shittest mechanic because they didn't even attempt to push even one of the cards for standard play.
Wizards never makes a keyworded mechanic good for Standard, not after Affinity. Yes, there are exceptions but we'll ignore those.
Imagine you're a new player and a mechanic is good. I'll make it up, let's pretend Infect was actually game-breaking good in Standard. Remember, there will always be a game-breaking deck in Standard, but it will never be named after a mechanic. If the game-breaking deck IS named after the mechanic it makes these new players feel shitty all the time because they see that Wizards is a bunch of incompetent people who can't balance mechanics. They'll continuously say, "Infect is stupid", "Why does Infect exist", "Those Infect creatures are broken." People said that about Infect anyways, but they were stupid and nobody actually listens to them. Was Metalcraft ever good? No it wasn't, but artifact creatures boosted by Tempered Steel were good, but the deck was named "Robots" or "Tempered Steel" but never "Metalcraft".
Every mechanic with a keyword will never exist in any notable density in any deck in Standard ever again.
>>44435201
Someone not as stupid as the person who thinks the only ally support is 'those shitty kor'
>>44433056
Hey, fuck you Spike.
>>44435158
a lot of the cards aren't even good in edh m8. discounting the legendary creatures, the only good cards for edh i've seen are sphinx of the final word, endbringer (utility card), mirrorpool, and stone haven outfitter is neat in a nahiri / other mono-W voltron i guess.
>>44435272
That made me really sad anon. I think I'm going to just stick to modern and commander forever now. I think i've finally given up on standard for good. I haven't had a competitive standard deck since RtR anyways.
>>44435277
I don't know you seem more like a dumbass to me. Where did I say the entire set only has 2 allies? Stop fishing for responses faggot this is the last time
>>44435350
>>no real ally support other than those shitty kor
>Fuck you wizards, how can I hope to make a deck out of your products when you don't even give the support
>>44435340
>believing somone who is talking out of his ass
>>44434059
Oh boy. A new removal spell for Tron that can also pump their Wurmcoil engines...
>>44435422
Name a deck built around a mechanic that was competitive in Standard since Mirrodin.
Outside of Faeries you will not be able to.
>>44435382
Not sensing sarcasm. Can't be any stupider if you tried
>>44435537
Dredge.
>>44435422
He's right though. Infect was fairly heavily pushed, and people complain about it to this day. At most kitchen tables infect is considered Taboo. I know a lot of people who think infect is completely unfair. They're the booster box buying crowd too.
>>44435220
I was considering that too, but I'm not sure how reliable/fast the manabase would be needing 3 colors and dedicated colorless
>>44435603
Dredge wasn't a deck in Standard. Elsewhere yes, but not Standard.
>>44435537
Innistrad undying zombies
>>44435716
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptdka12/top8deck
literally 1 undying creature on the whole list, strangleroot geist.
>>44435716
The deck was called "Zombies" not "Undying" and only one card had Undying and that was Geralf's. I know we're deep into semantics here but the criteria is clear, it needs to be a deck named after the MECHANIC. I know this sounds ridiculous but zombies were not a mechanic, just a tribe. Werewolves were also a tribe but they had an entire mechanic dedicated to them. Vampires, humans, spirits, they were also just tribes.
>>44434059
>"For those without the Planeswalker spark, the merest tough of the Blind Eternities can kill." -Ugin
Except for Xantcha. Or Myojin of Night's Reach. Or the crew of the Weatherlight. Or...
>>44435579
>hurr I was only pretending to be retarded!
>>44435841
>What is the mending?
Besides that, Xantcha was a Phyrexian Newt, the Myojin of Night's Reach was an EXTREMELY powerful Spirit that shielded itself from the Blind Eterneties as it went through it, and the crew of the Weatherlight literally needed the Weatherlight to protect them.
But please, keep trying.
>>44435841
>CAN
>not WILL
>>44435784
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptjou14/top8decks
>>44435925
>Junk
That was what Abzan used to be called, right?
What were the other wedges?
Hell, what were the shards?
>>44435537
Landfall.
>>44435905
>"It can kill!"
>No confirmed cases of it doing so.
>Countless confirmed cases of it clearly not doing so.
Clearly Ugin just doesn't know what the shit he's talking about.
>>44435699
Also
>Competitive
Not really, it's used in vintage because
1. Makes the game in to a bo1 for you (with like 20% odds, but hey, you only need to actually really play -one- game)
2. It's the cheapest fucking vintage deck. Get 4 baghdads, done.
>>44435925
Actually that brings up the fact that Heroic was a decent budget deck for a long time in standard, especially post-rtr. Won quite a few games, though it had some ROUGH matchups. It was a favorite for a lot of fnm players.
>>44435957
shards are bant, naya, jund, grixis, esper
wedges doesn't have a name. Abzan was Junk/Rock because there was once decks in that color with that name. I think it was a Spiritmonger deck back in invasion, then a Doran deck in Lorwyn.
>>44435957
Most use short names that are easy to say.
Abzan isn't really easy to say, like sultai.
Most names where quick ones (Junk, The Rock) old shards with short names (Jund, Esper) or using the mtg nomenclature (BUG, RUG)
>>44435925
A slight technicality, but those specific decks in the image were made for Block Constructed, not Standard.
>>44435943
Alright. You've found one exception. That's fine.
So, in the entire history of Magic keyword mechanics between now and Mirrodin there have been two plus maybe two more decks named after the mechanic that were competitive.
That's like 4 decks in a history of about 50 or more keyword mechanics. I think with a ratio like that I think it's safe to say what I said here:
>>44435272
Still applies.
>>44436009
>wedges doesn't have a name
They did, but they where shit (lmao "dega")
>>44435957
Jeskai was MURRICA.It still is
>>44436009
Oh I know what the shards are now, but what were they before Shards of Alara, or was it not a thing before then?
>>44436027
So if it was Bug, Rug, Junk, and Patriot, what was Mardu's old name?
>>44436045
The Wedge names are still fucking shit.
Nobody's going to continue calling Jeskai decks anything else but "America/American". Abzan will go back to being Junk, Temur will become RUG again, and Sultai will become BUG again.
Mardu is the only combination without a pre-existing name. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there but it's probably just going to be "Aristocrats" again.
>>44436073
>what was Mardu's old name?
"Free bye"
>>44436034
>the one that's in standard doesn't count, so my point still stands. no mechanic is good for standard.
And you still forgot prowess? Yeah sure no deck is named after it but Seeker of the Way was everywhere. Swiftspear is still around.
How about Polly and his monstrosity? Surrak with his Formidable? Boon Satyr with his Bestow? How about Whisperwood's and Master of Unseen's manifest? All of those reveal a dragon thing in DTK? I'm sure those doesn't count either?
>>44435845
You interpret it however you want. I don't have to type out in full fucking detail so idiots like you can feel not so stupid
>>44436034
No, your statement is false as all fuck. You're some kind of autist if you think a requirement for a playable mechanic is for a namesake deck to crop up that heavily utilizes that mechanic. Mechanics like Flashback, Retrace, and persist saw tons of play during their stay in standard and still see play in older formats. The mechanics were playable enough to find homes in a variety of decks and archetypes. They are extremely strong playable mechanics but you don't need build entire fucking decks purely around them.
Even by your shitty "it needs a namesake deck" standard, you're fucking wrong. Have you been living under a rock and missed the recent years were Miracles and COLOR-Devotion were highly competitive standard decks?
>>44436154
Listen up.
The goal is to make sure that a single mechanic is not used in recognizable density is in decks to the point where the deck is named after that mechanic. This goal to minimize the number of cards that are actually good with that mechanic is to make sure new players don't fucking blame Wizards for not balancing the mechanics. When all the mechanics are universally shit with a few card exceptions, that goal is achieved.
So Monstrosity existed on one playable card, Formidable one one playable card, Bestow on two or three playable cards, the Dragon thing is a couple cards. But NOBODY is making a deck that is built around those mechanics only using good cards those mechanics happen to be on.
>>44436034
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptths13/top_8_decks
Hey look? What's a Devotion? I'm sure it's not a mechanic right?
>>44436291
helllooooo mama >>44436296
WHEN WILL THEY SHOW US SOME MORE COMMONS? FUCK THE CONSTRUCTED PLAYERS! I WANT TO SEE SOME LIMITED CARDS
REEEEEEEEEEE
>>44435648
in EDH Infect is unfair, because you can kill far, far faster than almost all other EDH decks, and by that I mean all 3 other players.
>>44435957
The shard/wedge names in Invasion block were:
Sunscape (GWU)
Stormscape (WUB)
Nightscape (UBR)
Thunderscape (BRG)
Thornscape (RGW)
Dega (RWB)
Ceta (GUR)
Necra (WBG)
Raka (URW)
Ana (BGU)
>>44436324
Of course my dear buddy! Here, some special spoilers but tell nobody ; )
S'hu't rommer 4<><><>
Haste, trample
4/3
Can you feel the epic already?
>>44435841
none of these people were in the Blind Eternities, a place only Walkers and Eldrazi can go.
Portals are not the same, they are connecting A to B.
the Eternities is inbetween, or should I say, outside of A and B.
>>44436381
Some of the people I play EDH with deserve it
This is the reason they were so analdevastated about the leak. It literally showed all good cards in the set and most of them are mythic.
>>44436445
and even then, only 3 of them are really any good.
Sphinx is sideboard only, and the 2 that will see play for sure are Kozelik's Return and Kalitas.
the rest are very, very fucking fringe, even the key card, Kozelik, is Ramp Deck only.
>>44436445
Ermmm...
Reported.
Ok? Ok.
This is a great set, many things behind the scenes, and the pendulum of power has to go down before it goes up okay?
>>44436381
Then run some damn spot removal. People don't bitch and whine about Feildar Sovereign decks or other quick to lethal but easily intractable decks.
>>44436467
And not all ramp decks since Kozi is >colorless
>>44436499
also Blade of the Myriad now exists.
put on the right creature the game is OGRE.
>>44436094
Sure, buddy. People said the same thing about the shard names.
>>44436324
Atrii Dydforthis 1<><>
Creature - Eldrazi
T, Pay 1 life: Add <> to your mana pool.
1/1
Limtid Fodar 5<><>
Creature - Eldrazi
Trample
6/4
Waste Ophkardbord 4<>
Creature - Eldrazi
Whenever a colorless creature with converted mana cost 7 or greater enters the battlefield under your control, Waste Ophkardboard gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
2/2
Am I the only one that thinks it's bitterly ironic that people said "allies should have more support" when bfz released, and now there is an ability called "support" that's bland as all shit?
>>44436576
> Waste Ophkardbord
I can actually see them doing that, that affect.
but it'll be +1+0.
>>44436324
Ugh. Have you been seeing some of these rares? I'm happy for one or two gems, but it's all EDH or limited shit.
>>44436615
>all EDH
90% of this shit is fucking bargin fodder, why do you think any of it is good for EDH beyond the obvious shit.
>>44436615
>limited shit
Nigga, you probably have never beaten someone with a five mana sphinx or a six mana dragon after fending off their five mana kill spells that destroyed your best uncommon 4/4s, right?
>>44436643
Its pretty common for idiots to say anything they don't like is only playable in EDH
>>44436073
>what was Mardu's old name?
People at my FLGS called it Penguin in a blender
>>44436480
Kikewater is literally saying "Path to Exile" was a mistake and he doesn't want "Exile target creature" to be on a white card ever again.
This creature is too vile even for funposting and is ruining the game with his neurosis.
>>44436073
Dega, but nobody really ever played Dega ever. Hell, even RUG and BUG were just the color combos, Junk was called that because the deck was originally a piece of shit (that took off), and MURRICA is only because RED WHITE BLUE RED WHITE BLUE RED WHITE BLUE.
Honestly, the clan names are better then what we had.
>>44436615
Nigger, BFZ was lands, legends and Ob Nixilis.
This shit is the same.
EDH is not about bad cards, it's about having time to make fringe cards worth playing because threats are watered down by 4+ players worth of answers. BFZ block is not even cut for EDH and SOI is threatening to be the same way since kekwater is calling it an ongoing part of BFZ's story.
>>44436860
Mark "The nose" Rosewater knows better.
Pic related is the perfect board state in his mind
>>44436860
>it's okay when one mana removes everything that hasn't hexshroud
>>44436925
Okay, that picture made me laugh.
>>44436943
Murderous Cut.
and whining about efficient removal is retarded, because the real problem cards through out magic history were enchantments and artifacts.
>>44436966
Or spells, because giving only 1 (that's right -1-) color a real way to effectively interact with them was SMART.
>>44436966
Murderous Cut is "destroy" and also "one mana plus four cards in your grave".
why are these sets so shit?
at least we'll have a neat standard once khans rotates out. not that standard gets played in my town.
>>44436992
which is irrelevant, especially the more powerful the format.
>>44436989
mostly Enchantments and artifacts, which usually beat you RIGHT NOW, spells were really just Yawgmoths Will and a few others.
the broken cards like Tinker and such were all enchantments and artifacts.
>>44437007
Fun fact: In a recent podast MaRo couldn't remember whether they did wedge charms or wedge commands.
>>44437055
they should have been wedge commands.
>>44435841
Assuming you're not actually that retarded, 4 toughness is as demonstrated the natural survival cutoff for a splash of eternity juice.
>>44437055
That's because he last worked on the set three years ago at this point
>>44435841
no living being has ever survived in the Blind Eternities.
beyond Planeswalkers.
>>44437089
Didn't elder dragons do exactly that?There's the Eldrazi to but that's cheating.
>>44437068
>>44437087
Or maybe they were changed later. Modal spells are probably made mostly in development. Also, I wouldn't mind clan commands next time we're on Tarkir. (They said they were going to meet expectations next time we're there, which means we'll get wedges again.) Although I wouldn't mind clan confluences.
>>44435903
Ugin didn't say the Blind Eternities kill weak people with no protection. Ugin said the Blind Eternities kill people without a planeswalker spark. Clearly he's wrong.
>>44437055
Do you remember what kind of burgers you flipped last week?
>>44437124
no, they tore portals between worlds, like I said before, A to B.
no one can survive in the space outside A and B, they can merely connect A to B with a tunnel.
only Planeswalkers can survive outside it.
>>44437150
except he isn't, no non-walker has ever sat foot int he Eternities and lived.
>>44436405
Xantcha planeswalked with Urza, tagging along as he used his natural planeswalker powers. She went straight through the blind eternities with him.
The Weatherlight didn't use a portal either. It planeshifted, just like planeswalkers do, until it got damaged by the Predator.
>>44436860
I'm willing to give NWO magic a fair shot. The problem is everybody is writing it off since the transition is so bad from Tarkir's powerlevel to BFZ. Judge new magic by what comes after April rotation.
It is however, inexcusable how bad the transition is, fetchable dual lands coming out of a strong 3 color block is absolutely retarded. Some one at Wizards needs to be shot.
>>44436034
Let's look at all of the viable decks named after mechanics after the so called 'last one'
Erayo-Ninja (half counts), perilous storm, dragonstorm (named after a card, but the card has the mechanic and was named after it), knollstorm, dredge, 5 color cascade, cascade swans, several devotion decks and u/w/x heroic.
>>44436291
The issue is that there isn't enough synergy in standard and that there hasn't been enough for a while. Your explanation of why there isn't enough synergy is partially correct, but still mostly incorrect. It is true that they toned down linear synergy (mechanical synergy) but even when they had toned it down mirrodin-kamigawa (post banning) through ravnica-timespiral were full of synergy heavy decks, the synergies that they did have were mainly non-linear or at least not directly mechanical (heartbeat of spring, Veridian rats and blink touch all being good examples).
Here's an article on the subject http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/af109
>>44437169
When your job is to come up with new burgers you should probably be aware of the burgers you already made.
>>44437189
Xantcha.
>>44437199
except Urza literally has to cast spells so she doesn't die.
and the Weatherlight naturally protects from the Blind Eternities by making its own "reality" born from the crushed Serra's Plane.
no mortal has ever been there without an Old Walker protecting them and survived, infact, Venser used it as a weapon by teleporting things to it.
>>44437228
who only did so with Urza protecting her.
>>44434059
Oh boy I can finally attack with Spellskite!
nothing survives their without immense power protecting them.
>>44437253
>Venser used it as a weapon by teleporting things to it.
well now we know from where the eldrazis got their first taste and ultimately cravings for mortal planes.
>>44437363
Rath already had some fucked up beings that had lived in the Blind Eternities.
>>44437363
Eldrazi were eating planes for millions of years, and were just noticed by Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri 6 thousand years ago.
Venser was only about 100 years old when he died.
>>44435957
Abzan is Junk
Jeskai is America/Canada/whatever red white and blue country you feel like. Though it didn't get a ton of play, I liked calling it patriot.
Sultai is BUG
Temur is RUG
Mardu didn't really have a good nickname. Newspaper was the one I heard most often, if people bothered.
I have no idea what people used to call the shards, if anything.
>>44437204
Nigger, NWO started in SOM and it's just an excuse so they can be as mercenary as possible and exacerbate their favoritism.
>We're being more strict with the color pie
Oops, Delver of Secrets.
>No more 4cmc "wraths"
Whelming Wave isn't a wrath even if it does exactly the same thing Supreme Verdict used to do, in pretty much the same deck c:
>10 checklands, 10 shocklands, 10 temples, are you seeing a pattern? We're not printing incomplete land cycles for standard anymore!
W-we never promised to print all fetchalnds, support your local collectors!
MaRo was a mistake.
>>44435272
>Wizards never makes a keyworded mechanic good for Standard
The term your looking for is linear mechanic. WotC don't want to push mechanics that feed into themselves, because, while such mechanics are very popular among casual players, they generally aren't among competitive players who will often complain about how WotC built the deck for them and also tends to be one of the strongest decks, if not the strongest deck, in Standard when it's pushed. And because the mechanic is linear in nature, just pushing one or two cards does not actually make the deck any more playable in competitive environments, as it requires a critical mass of playable cards to work at all.
>>44437725
The 10 checklands weren't in the same set. The allied 5 were first in M10. The cycle wasn't finished until Innistrad (which also printed 5 fetches, not 10). The full cycle of shocks was a repeat from original Ravnica.
>the colorless symbol is the same as the gap 4 cards together leave where the corners dont touch
>>44437725
Fuck off, idiot.
Delver was a mistake, this happens in all colours. Whelming wave was fucking trash, just like every other effect in that vein, minus Upheaval.
I don't think the lands were ever a real thing, just with new cycles, could be wrong about that though. Not to mention the 10+ lands at common and the 5 lands at uncommon in Khans.
God forbid you look at examples that aren't out of context.
>>44435841
Xantcha and the Weatherlight never touched the Blind Eternities, they traversed it within safeguards.
Metaphorically, Planeswalkers can swim in the lava, the Weatherlight was a lavaboat and Xantcha could vomit out a lavacanoe.
Myojin of Night's Reach and Marit Lage are both abberant superbeings.
>>44437890
I should add, fetches should be a lot more valuable than shocks, hence it's probably better for players they don't bottleneck them into one set. Now if you take a break you're not gonna miss both, and you can stagger boosting your collection.
>>44437725
>NWO started in SOM
Except it didn't. It started in shards of alara... Are you just using NWO is just a nickname or something? http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/R%26D#New_World_Order
In any case, I agree that the changes that they've made recently (specifically the attempt to raise the curve/cmc of competitive cards) has been done extremely poorly and without caveats is a bad idea. The time this raised worked reasonable well was rise of the eldrazi, but rise contrasts with what they're doing now by being synergy based, having an excess of activated abilities and having eldrazi spawn acting as mana batteries. Without an emphasis on activated abilities or mana batteries or levelers or synergy it can't work and hasn't worked.
>>44436860
He doesn't like a card that just says 'exile target creature' and doesn't have a drawback other than costing a lot. That means cards like Angelic Verdict and Trostani's Judgment. White gets removal but it's either conditional (celestial flare) or has a 'significant' drawback (path/swords).
>>44437992
they have failed, people rarely play 5 mana spells because they aren't pushed enough and a red deck can just kill you on turn 4, meaning if you did what wizards wanted, you'd have a hand full of shit you'd never survive to cast.
>>44437931
Fetches are not and should not be more valuable than shocks since, in a vacuum, shocks are better dual lands. Also worth pointing out that before shocks were confirmed for reprints in RtR they were far more expensive than Zen fetches.
>>44437890
>this happens in all colours
Mostly blue.
>>44438088
>In a vacum shocks are better than duals
You mean non-alpha ones right?
>>44438085
Yes, though it's a bit more complicated than that. Were you disagreeing with me?
>>44438088
I think this is straight up wrong, shocks are better when there are only basics with either shocks or fetches, true. But, as soon as you bring them together, add revised duals, or even the new dual lands, fetches are better. They shuffle your deck, which certainly isn't nothing, thin your deck, a small thing admittedly, and a single fetch can fix you for any colour.
>>44438118
That's a fair point, treasure cruise, dig through time and Jace are all recent examples, but I think that's accidental when messing with the volatile nature of these effects. The same way delver was volatile when letting a 1 mana guy become a 3/2 flier, they didn't think he'd be good as almost the only threat in a deck, so they didn't worry.
>>44438193
no, was just pointing out how and why they continue to fail.
if they give players shit like Atarkas Command and Swiftspear and Become Immense, they can't expect me to toy around with 5 and 6 mana spells in a non ramp deck.
>>44438212
I still can't believe how good Atarka's, Dromoka's, and Kologhan's command were. Proof positive that power is all in the cmc, and Wizards has no idea what they are doing in that regard.
>>44438439
Jesus, they make a card pushed, people bitch they have no idea what they're doing.
They don't push cards people call it NWO kikewater getting his way.
How can you be this dense? They have so many people working on it, maybe, just maybe, they wanted to print good cards?
>>44438439
CMC has and will always be the reason a card is good or not.
See emrakul for example. The decks that actually cast him can be counted in a hand.
Clearly we need to make the Eldrazi and the Phyrexians fight, and the winners get to rule everything
>>44438460
The cards they want to be "pushed" often end up being shit, (minotaurs / centaurs in Theros) and cards they overlook often end up dominating formats (gray merchant, delver). I'm all for them intentionally sneaking in some eternal playables (abrupt decay), but most of the time their costing of things comes across as completely hamfisted. They give off the impression that they cannot control what is and isn't good.
>>44438499
They fuse to fight the greatest evil to date.
You ready?Golgari mage gets spark, goes to arabian nights and acquires the ultimate dredge power, elevating him to oldWalkerhood. Then kills Jace.
The most devious villain wotc could come with.
>>44438516
I have to wonder if their designers know how to play, and if they have external consultants to play test
>>44437796
>complain about Wizards making the deck for them.
Wasn't that the complaint with madness + madness enablers like Mongrel? or Astral Slide + Cycling?. God, I'm old.
>>44438541
One outside group they playtest with is people who don't or have never played Magic. Maro's talked about how some things get killed before they ever see the light of day because it was too confusing for the never-play crowd or some garbage.
>>44436073
Italia. A team from Italy made a run at the magic world cup using those colors
>>44438578
>who don't or have never played Magic.
[screams externally]
>>44437889
underrated
>>44438600
I wish they would just realize Magic woud be great if there weren't any new players who don't understand the game. They should make the game for all the players who already know how to play. Fuck Wizards.
>>44438516
You seriously think they wanted minotaurs and centaurs to be pushed? They do subthemes like that all the time, for casual players, this can be seen in many sets, with the lords they put out.
That's like saying they wanted werewolves to be a thing because they printed immerwolf and the other werewolf lords. The backbone of a constructed tribal deck is usually one of three things:
Combo, in the case of legacy elves
Value capabilities, in the case of legacy goblins
Beatdown with a critical mass of tempo and/or lords, Merfolk and mainly faeries
If you're playing cards like minotaur skullcleaver, then it's not going to be a playable deck. I'm not even going to start on centaurs, you're out of your mind if you think that was anything more than casual fodder.
The issue is with limited playtime and a small team, they can't catch everything, and it's easy to get caught up on red herrings. Delver is a good example of this, it spawned a whole new archetype, tempo decks with roughly 12 threats and only spells. These decks /were/ rarely a thing before delver, yes, but delver really made it take off.
This lead to design not having any basis to think it was going to be good, and in fact, for contrast, they were worried about reckless waif because RDW was already a thing that was good.
I really think the game is fine, it's healthy and it's fun to play, if there's something you want to play, chances are there's a format for it. Except drawgo, RIP. The hobby isn't cheap, no, but really, if you don't have the money, play on cockatrice or get a job and work on your collection slowly.
>>44432805
Does R get any good things?
>>44438516
>The cards they want to be "pushed" often end up being shit, (minotaurs / centaurs in Theros)
Minotaurs were emphasized as a theme for casuals. It was never meant to be competitive.
>cards they overlook often end up dominating formats (gray merchant, delver)
This is true.
>>44438541
Most of the development team is made up of players from the pro tour.
>>44438460
>They have so many people working on it, maybe, just maybe, they wanted to print good cards?
The commands are powerful in rather stupid ways though, like k-command basically has a better version of electrolyze as one of its modes and then gives you the option of giving you a huge tempo swing whenever your opponent plays artifacts with another useful mode aside from that. Smelt is only fair because artifacts are so rare that it is unplayable, even if your opponent has a few of them the risk that it rots in your hand is too big for it to usually be worth it, k-command is like having a smelt that has cycling 0, it's like they actively people actually playing artifacts.
I could say basically the same for D-command with enchantments.
They push the wrong things and the game suffers for it.
>>44438724
You mean in Oath or just generally?
>>44438810
Since when is Kolaghan's Command a card people complain about? I've literally never heard anyone call it a mistake. Usually it's just endless whining about Meme Rhino and Jace, VP.
>>44438719
The larger game as a whole is fine, even good. That's not in dispute. Eternal formats are great, Modern is... pretty good, EDH is great, Kitchen table is great,
However, I'm talking about new sets and standard. New sets coming out lately have been lowball powercurve shit for the most part, making them a chore to play limited, and a terrible standard environment. Standard is absolutely shit right now, it was shit during RtR-THS standard, and I'm not hopeful for Tarkir-BfZ-SoI standard if they keep up this crap.
Limited has been awful lately too. I first noticed it in m14 where you basically had to draft BR sac-for-value unless you had good rares. Then there whole theros block was durdly and slow, with bad removal worsening the problem. Then during MM15 draft you basically had 4-5 parasitic decks that had nothing to do with each other, like proliferate, affinity, spirits, ect.
Sure, I can keep playing my older formats and still have fun, but the new stuff they're putting out is severely disappointing. (Inb4 old grognard, I started mtg with m13)
>>44435957
>Used to be
Still is, unless you are a pleb.
>>44438842
Oath. Haven't seen the spoilers.
![goblindarkdwellerspromo[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/eQWKD1f.jpg "goblindarkdwellerspromo[1].jpg")
>>44438724
A Curve-Topper that can flash back your token makers.
Chandra? What Chandra? There hasn't been a new Chandra announced keep moving.
>>44438810
I like the analogy to electrolyze. It's like an electrolyze that instead of drawing a card, gravediggers or makes your opponent discard, this in itself I think can be argued as better or worse depending. I'm going to ignore the artifact part for now.
So electrolyze can kill a half of lingering souls, two bobs, or more likely a pestermite+snapcaster. The fact that electrolyze can fork is nothing to sneeze at, and I think in general, drawing a card is more powerful than either gravedigging or making your opponent discard 1. The versatility probably brings it up to par, /maybe/ better, /maybe/ worse.
This leaves the last bit, the artifact kill, which is splash damage against Tron, Affinity and Lantern. Are you really complaning these decks took a hit? Basically, it's generally worse than electrolyze without the smelt, but with, can have large splash damage against certain decks, making it better.
Noone complains about electrolyze.
>>44438842
Think that Abbot is modern playable?
>>44438956
5 CMC seems kind of eeeeh, but I don't play red ever so what do I know.
>>44438973
Its ability is pretty great for 5 mana, plus it has Menace.
It may be the best card in this set to be honest, everything else looks somewhat lackluster.
>>44438760
and those players are only really good at playing the game after the fact, VERY few of them can actually make new decks, and the rest of the players just follow what the few innovators create.
see: Brad Nelson, the man can't evaluate cards to save his life, but ironically, vocally tells eveyrone how powerful or shit a card is every pre-release with Evan Erwin, who is actually much better at evaluation than Nelson is, despite the fact Nelson constantly beats Evan over the head with his "pro status".
so whoever the fuck they get to playtest for them, they aren't doing a good job and almost never do.
>>44438968
It's on the lower side of fringe. A decently powerful card that just misses the cutoff by a bit.
>>44438973
It's a 4/4 for 5 in red wich is about par for the course but it also has evasion and lets you recycle one of your old spells for free
I may not be flashy but it's still damn good
>>44438886
khans block cards were pretty powerful and are used even in Vintage
Theros block was pretty bad, but it still had some very good cards
BfZ looks worse than Theros
>>44438956
>>44438964
Both are mediocre. Anything else? I heard there was a lot of Red Surge.
>>44438886
I don't play standard, so I can't really comment, I think it looks certainly better than Theros standard, that seemed abysmal.
Your limited point, I disagree with, I skipped M14 because I don't play core sets, but I made an exception for Origins, which was solid. 3x KTK was one of my favourite drafts of all time, top 3 with Lorwyn and probably INN or RoE. Basically, from RTR:
3x RTR was decent
3x GTC was a bit better
DGM made the format worse, but mediocre
3x Theros was fun, if durdly
The rest of Theros wasn't for me, but I heard some people liked it.
3x KTK amazing
KTK KTK FRF alright, hope you open a bomb
DTK DTK FRF meh, DTK would've been mediocre, but having the last pack of trash made the format worse
Origins was ok, didn't play it a lot, had fun in the 10 or so drafts I did, the set was fun and I liked it. BFZ is ok too, nice synergy based format, but green.... My biggest hate about it, and relegates it to at best mediocre when an entire colour is so bad.
>>44439094
>Mediocre
kek
The fuck do you want another Mind Sculptor?
>>44439026
I feel you. If it was 3/1 or had flash, or if it was a 1/1 for just R with the same effect, or... something. If it had flash it would be snapcaster copies 5-8 in some decks though. It's not a BAD card, but what is and isn't good in modern, it has to check a lot of boxes.
>>44439094
a TON of players, especially good players in the pro scene are saying Dark Dwellers will be a format staple.
it has the cost of a Den Protector flip, but the card is free that you get back.
>>44438965
Just to add, I ignored the others because, well, they don't see play outside of standard. D. command sees play in sideboards yes, but it's the same argument as K command, it's a worse version of other cards(as opposed to electrolyze, fight spells aren't usually playable) with less relevant splash damage.
>>44439108
No. Just something that is fun. I mean, come on. A 4/4 Menace for 5 mana? Come on. This is underwhelming. It's effect doesn't even fit the flavor.
>>44439144
its effect is very red, the fact Snapcaster got it was always one of the biggest bullshit moments in magic, as it got a red effect cheaper than red cards do.
>>44439144
It is fun, though. I have to admit that.
>>44439131
There was some talk about using the three blind goblins and a confusing rules loophole to cast the burst side of boom//burst in modern
>>44439144
this card will be a 3 or 4 of in some midrange deck in many tournies to come and you are "Brad Nelsoning" real hard by not seeing it.
>>44438554
It's been a complaint in every Standard environment in which there has existed a deck that was easily constructed by simply piling all playable cards within a certain subset on top of each other, and especially so when the tribal blocks Odyssey and Lorwyn were around, but it was also a complaint, though much less vocal, just a few Standard seasons ago when WU Control was a thing and consisted of nothing more than all the playable card draw and removal spells, counterspells, and Aetherling.
>>44439144
Its a 4/4 for 5 mana with Evasion that can get you a free:
-Hordeling Outburst
-Crackling Doom
-Exquisite Firecraft
-Atarka, Dromoka, and Kologhan Commands
-Ruinous Path
-etc.
How the fuck is it not good?
>>44439172
No, I can see it's purpose. But I expected something better. I am happy that Red gets a new toy. But there's got to be something better, isn't it? This set just really underwhelms me.
>tfw Wastes will ruin booster drafts for the next while
Sure I'll just get lucky and get enough Wastes in the draft to use any possible colorless card.
>>44439178
I guess I am stupid. Fuck. At least I can replace my Ire Shaman now.
>>44439198
>3 for 1'ing my opponent just isn't good enough.
I don't understand your plight, to be honest, do you want big flashy shit? what?
Ahhhh... Spoiler season.
Where every card is terrible and magic had been shit for 15 years.
I'm looking forward to these colourless requiring eldrazhi giving green a boost in draft. Also hoping OGW-BFZ is less linear than BFZ, got old faster than I was expecting.
>>44439216
Mana rocks also produces colorless mana. I don't think you're gonna need to play more than two or three wastes in most limited decks unless you draft really weird.
>>44439216
nigger, your store will be given a ton of them for their Draft Land Box.
you do not have to draft Basic Wastes.
>>44439253
Yes you do.
>>44439253
When Wastes were shown off at that one event they had a guy there to specifically state you had to draft Wastes or you were otherwise fucked.
>>44439253
You do have to draft basic wastes. They said in the first preview video for OGW that you can't just get as many wastes as you want like you can with mountains at a draft.
>>44438711
This is the dumbest shit anyone has ever said.
>>44439289
>>44439278
that is retarded.
there can be NONE in the POOL!
>>44439289
>>44439278
What will be the next shit Wizards does? Next time I'm not allowed anymore to use my binder in Draft or what?
>>44438873
It's not a big complaint, more of sign of a problem than a problem in and of itself.
>>44438965
>I think in general, drawing a card is more powerful than either gravedigging or making your opponent discard 1
I disagree but whatever. I usually prefer a chosen creature out of the yard rather than a random card.
>which is splash damage against Tron, Affinity and Lantern. Are you really complaning these decks took a hit?
I wasn't referring to the card in a modern environment, modern is full of overpowered cards so the fact that it fits isn't a sign that it is well designed.
The issue is is against decks with artifacts it doesn't cost artifacts in a sensible way, compare it to Putrefy. Putrefy costs 3 to destroy an artifact, which is not a blowout for a deck which has artifacts, even though it is still interaction against it and it is similarly playable in an environment which doesn't have many artifacts.
Put simply, are you ever going to add a few artifacts to your otherwise artifact-less deck knowing that your opponent's plays k-command? Unless it has a ETB/LTB effect or it sacs itself, no it will basically never be worth it. It isn't just versatility against decks with artifacts, it is flat out hate against them.
Also Affinity didn't take a hit, it actually grew due to k-command because command pushed other artifact decks out of the format entirely (mono-u-tron and u/w tron were the biggest) and thus decreased the amount of hate affinity had to deal with post board.
>Noone complains about electrolyze.
You have no idea. People used to, people used to a lot.
>>44439238
Not that. I mean, I'm just really pissed that Red doesn't get a lot of support, and I'm pretty happy that this card exists. But I'm kind of dreading the really good shit that other colors will have.
>>44439303
It's printed in that weird spot on the sheet where it's technically more common than a common, which means you are twice as likely to see a Waste as any other common in the set.
>>44439198
>But I expected something better.
>This set just really underwhelms me.
Good to know that this card is the only red card in the set.
>>44439238
I understand his plight, Anon.
So I have prepared a card to meet his needs.
>>44439352
I...see what you did there. Barely.
>>44432805
surge should have had some cards that had a higher surge cost then there normal cost to get there special abilities.
>>44439352
it needs to also shock a creature too.
>>44439412
and you would cast these... where exactly?
EDH wouldn't want them unless they are top notch, so where?
>>44439332
so it isn't in the land slot? its an actual Common?
this fucking draft format is going to be so god damn shit.
>>44439352
I think it's funny that Cascade is the most effortless bullshit probably in the history of Magic. It's essentially better than a mere cantrip given that you cast a card for free and better than a cantrip because if the initial spell gets countered the Cascade still gets cast.
It was so innocuous when I initially played with it. All the cards were crap. Then I experienced back-to-back Bloodbraid Elf. If you didn't fall in love with value then, there was no hope.
>>44439421
>>44439382
Ahh, I see that R/D has let down the Magic community once again.
Perhaps this will help?
>>44439434
>we are now forced to high-pick basic lands that produce "colorless"
they are even making my draft NWO shit.
>>44439100
>I think it looks certainly better than Theros standard, that seemed abysmal.
I used to think that theros was the problem with standard but after reevaluation I think it might have the best block for standard since at least innistraad, RTR-THR was awful but once you switched out RTR with KTK it was the best that standard had been for while.
>>44439449
To be fair Cascade can miss.
But then again I never played in a modern format where BBE was legal.
>>44439144
>No. Just something that is fun. I mean, come on. A 2/1 Flash for 2 mana? Come on. This is underwhelming. It's effect doesn't even fit the flavor.
>>44439466
needs to be legendary for my Commander deck.
come on, your slipping, there isn't even Dredge printed on this or Delve.
>>44439466
Now you have made me see the error of my ways. Praise MaRo!
>>44439497
you jest but there were actual faggots saying this.
>>44439497
>Snapcaster will be banned
>Lavacaster Mage for 1R gets printed
>>44439144
>No. Just something that is fun. I mean, come on. A 5/5 Haste for 8 mana? Come on. This is underwhelming. It's effect doesn't even fit the flavor.
>>44439540
Flashback was good and always will. Screw you.
>>44439144
>No. Just something that is fun. I mean, come on. A 3/2 Haste for 4 mana? Come on. This is underwhelming. It's effect doesn't even fit the flavor.
>>44439144
>No. Just something that is fun. I mean, come on. A 2/2 Menace for 3 mana? Come on. This is underwhelming. It's effect doesn't even fit the flavor.
>>44439497
>>44439563
Please don't make this a new meme.
![i8-46870-Emrakul-the-Aeons-Torn-(Rise-of-the-Eldrazi-Prerelease)[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/AbFv681.png "i8-46870-Emrakul-the-Aeons-Torn-(Rise-of-the-Eldrazi-Prerelease)[1].png")
>>44439144
>No. Just something that is fun. I mean, come on. A 15/15 Annihilator for 15 mana? Come on. This is underwhelming. It's effect doesn't even fit the flavor.
>>44432852
where are you getting comparative from?
>>44439600
What have I done?
>>44439495
(Un)fortunately Cascade never misses. At least not in Constructed.
Day of Judgment was around at the time. So what you do is play nothing on T1 and on T2 you dropped a Putrid Leech or Plated Geopede. T3 you hit your opponent for like 3-5 damage because there was simply nothing they had that could block you. Then you played another 2-drop or Sprouting Thrinax or hit them with a Blightning.
So here's the deal. If they Wrath you on their T4 they're already going to be down to somewhere around 12. Then you cast Bloodbraid Elf and it Blightnings them or just casts a Leech or Thrinax. At this point you give them two choices: have a Wrath or die or have no hand... and die.
Fucking Man-lands were around too. Jund was so proof against absolutely everything in the game it was almost funny, Caw Blade you didn't know you were dead until you actually died, Jund you felt dead every step of the way. You could introduce Jund from Alara exactly as it was into any Standard format today and it would be the best deck.
All because of a stupid Elf and a 3/3 that shits out 3 1/1s when it dies.
>>44439434
Yup. It's a common. See that letter C down the bottom near the artist's name?
>>44439624
Cascade was one of the more "you are making a very big mistake" keywords.
I still look at and wonder what they were thinking, probably the guy who made Tinker thought it up and they still haven't fired him for being an idiot yet.
>>44439657
>the guy who made Tinker
That'd be Maro.
>>44439657
MaRo made Tinker.
>>44439657
Nah but it can miss bro.
>>44439682
>>44439688
I rest my case.
>>44439325
>I disagree but whatever. I usually prefer a chosen creature out of the yard rather than a random card.
On turn 3 when you have nothing in your yard?
We clearly have different opinions on what is too strong, just because something sees play in modern doesn't mean it's overpowered.
The putrefy example is stupid, putrefy is a 3-mana removal spell that is flexible on what it can target, it's meant to kill their big threat, not generate value. Not to mention it doesn't see play, so it's obvious it performs worse.
The costing issue you have, all the effects cost 1, but even then, they're actually worth around 0.75 in the case of shock and Disentomb.
It costs 3 total. Basically K-command gouges generally low value things to hopefully get you a two for one, but if you can't gain value out of two abilities, it ranges from pretty bad to awful.
>Put simply, are you ever going to add a few artifacts to your otherwise artifact-less deck knowing that your opponent's plays k-command?
Well, if people stop playing artifacts, then k-command reverts to being a bad electrolyze, which almost isn't good enough, as is. So yes, because there's that meta decision, people will keep playing artifact,
no k-commands = artifacts good,
no artifacts = k-commands bad
>You have no idea. People used to, people used to a lot.
Pfft, it was good, not worth complaning about. Wouldn't be surprised if people back then had this same conversation comparing to fire//ice, haha.
>>44439691
yea
in limited.
>>44439657
From a 2009 article:
>"Cascade is a mechanic that produces free spells, and that is an element of Magic that developers must treat carefully. There were a number of things that could have gone wrong with cascade, but we were able to get the mechanic to a place that was both safe and fun."
Where's my God damn scrying sheets expedition?
That shit produces colorless and is great
>>44439737
>they always end up saying the dumbest things about broken mechanics.
I just wish they were capable of apologizing beyond announcing the banlist with zero inflection.
they are terrifed of admitting hubris.
>>44439606
The Eldrazi actually are pretty underwhelming.
HERE'S A BIG FUCKING MONSTER AND IT DESTROYS A BUNCH OF SHIT AND HAS PROTECTION FROM EVERYTHING AND IS UNCOUNTERABLE AND HAS A TIME WALK STAPLED ON AND LOOK HOW FUCKING BIG IT IS 15/15 WOW SO SCARY
...and it ends up just being a bland muddled mess that you just end up glazing over. It's so big and over the top that loops back around into totally fucking boring and uninteresting.
>>44439657
Cascade decks are generally very all in and delicate.
Hell, you can't even run low cost spells if you want to hit something with any consistency
>>44434059
Easily the best spoiled card of the set so far, including the mythics.
![11[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/fD26iNk.jpg "11[1].jpg")