Pathfinder General /pfg/
If you are asking for build advice, please mention which third-party books are allowed.
Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/sYFe4hcd
Previous Thread: >>44417615
Shilling Is Over Edition
To balance spellcasters is to make it unnatural and taboo
>>44422772
redistribute the magics of production from the spellbarons of capitalism to the martial proletariat that allowed them to gain their first two levels
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A0B2Un1b5hCNDrecBDymrlSluU9DJwGlo-uPQeyopis/edit?usp=sharing
Alright, more work has been done on the Fusilier (And especially the additional discoveries that are not limited to it.)
It is, however, still very much a work in progress. Any thoughts on general power/issues would be highly appreciated.
The Fusilier is a warrior-alchemist, working without extracts but with great skill with blade, bomb and gun.
>>44422794
Commoners of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your NPC status!
Gonna DM my first PF game soon, should I allow any third party books?
I told them to pick anything they want as long as they avoid those weeby looking alternative classes and hybrid classes.
Unchained should be fine right? Or should I even urge them to use the unchained version since it's basically rebalanced.
I'm also seeing unchained sections in skills sections.
Anyway, how do I make it more attractive to play a fighter?
Casters sound like they'd be the most fun but I'd rather not have my group be 5 wizards.
>>44422870
Ohhh boy there's a lot /pfg/ will say to you.
tl;dr unchained is absolutely recommended for monk and rogue and if someone plays a non-unchained monk/rogue they will be awful.
Summoner and Barbarians are optional.
Fighter is still generally awful, a bit less awful with weapon master's handbook, but still takes a surprising amount of effort and knowledge to become an actually good build, and not recommended for beginners (or well, anyone really).
Characters without magic being much worse and less fun than characters with magic is one of the big flaws of pathfinder.
/pfg/'s favourite third party books are Dreamscarred Press' Path of War and Psionics and they would argue that the balance they provide is actually better. (Martials are strong and fun to play, psionic casters are harder to get wrong but also harder to make stupid overpowered)
The big thing to realise as a new GM to pathfinder is that just because Paizo is 'first party', by no means does it mean they're actually good at their job, and the core rules are riddled with problems that you just kind of need to use experience to get a feel of.
Also most of the alt/hybrid classes are pretty good.
>>44422870
Allow path of war. It encourages fighters and is generally good.
>>44422870
>Anyway, how do I make it more attractive to play a fighter?
Advanced Weapon Training from the Weapon Master's Handbook.
>>44422870
The hybrid classes aren't weeb at all and the alternate classes are in fact (other than antipaladin) eastern inspired yes.
How do play 15 Point Buy? Summon Monster all day?
>>44422962
Ideally you don't.
>>44422905
I'll check out those books, Already have a guy willing to play a fighter, he seems much more focussed on proper RP than building a strong character luckily.
What other game systems would you recommend if PF turns too wizardly at some point?
>>44422952
Yeah I meant the alternate ones look weeby, I don't have fantasy japan in my setting. Hybrids just look like they'd complicate things or make other classes pointless. People can multiclass if they want to be part wizard, part sorceror.
>>44422962
I'm going with rolling and assigning myself, using standard fantasy
Pointbuy just sounds like it'd turn into minmaxing shitfest.
>>44423015
5e is very similar to 3.5/PF if you don't enjoy PF
Casters are still casters but the imbalance is a lot less obvious
>>44423015
>People can multiclass if they want to be part wizard, part sorceror.
This is saying "people can fuck themselves over if they want, I don't care".
I mean, arcanist was one of the least needed class from the ACG, but you still sound like a stupid douche.
>>44423015
>People can multiclass if they want to be useless
FTFY. You DO realize that is basically guaranteed to make you useless unless you know what you're doing, right? And that goes double for anything more than a dip or if you're a full caster.
I've got like 16 gold left on my new level 1 stalker. Any suggestions for miscellaneous equipment I might not have already? It has to be able to survive prolonged exposure to seawater.
>>44423015
>Pointbuy will turn into a minmaxing shitfest
People being able to build their characters they way they want to isn't a min-maxing shit fest. Not to mention trying to make an effective character mechanically shouldn't be thought of as wrong. The ability to roleplay and to contribute to the game is only enhanced when your character is good at his role and is weakened when he finds out he can't do his job as effectively.
>>44422870
>weeby looking
> how do I make it more attractive to play a fighter
>4 replies
Come on /pfg/, invest more skillpoints in perception, that's obviously a bait.
>>44423097
>Any suggestions for miscellaneous equipment I might not have already?
Bag of chalk or flour.
>It has to be able to survive prolonged exposure to seawater.
Well shit. I guess there are no polyethylene bags?
>>44423124
>>44423015
I think you should FUCKING LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE GAME before you waste anyone's time as a DM you inbred fucktard.
Fuck you and fuck anyone in this thread replying to you.
>>44423212
>>44423239
Oh, you're right. We should spend the thread coddling him and being trolled. This is Gaming+ where everyone is a precious flower.
>>44423212
I'm learning the game right here and now, asking questions and having people clear things up.
What manner of moron are you?
>>44423256
>I'm learning the game right here and now
Holy shit this really is the end of the hobby.
Fuck it, I'm out. Enjoy your troll thread.
>>44423248
Nobody is coddling him.
We're telling him why he's wrong without being dicks about it.
We were all new once.
(I do think 5e is probably more suited to the game he wants though;half the appeal in pathfinder is the characterbuild variety)
My DM allows Sacred Geometry. NPCs use it too. How do I best use it? I think to pick it in place of regular metamagic feats.
>>44423277
Step 1: Pass basic math.
Step 2: Your wizard is now literally invincible.
>>44423281
I already completed both steps. The question is, what metamagic feats are useful aside from your usual Dazing/Empower/Maximize/Quicken?
>>44423277
>>44423281
>NPCs use it too
>GM can better justify using a calculator because of all the NPCs he has to manage at once
This better be an all-out hyper power wizarding war.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Generally you can go a long way turning a broken thing into a not broken thing by simply letting everyone have it.
Sucks for the party martials in this case though.
>>44423277
Past a certain number of skill ranks for each spell level, it is mathematically impossible to not roll the proper numbers. I forget exactly how many for most of them, but for 9th level spells you require 14 ranks to be impossible to fail.
So as far as metamagic is concerned, Dazing, Empower, Maximise, Quicken. You can also roll with Silent and Still if you want to troll people by casting your spells functionally without visible components. Beyond that, just grab whatever metamagic looks useful.
>>44423289
Persistent
>Benefit: Whenever a creature targeted by a persistent spell or within its area succeeds on its saving throw against the spell, it must make another saving throw against the effect. If a creature fails this second saving throw, it suffers the full effects of the spell, as if it had failed its first saving throw.
>Level Increase: +2 (a persistent spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.)
>>44421885
So what if the soul leave the body? That condition still doesn't prevent you from acting
>>44423289
Disruptive. Echoing. Intensified. Shit man, you have enough campaign time to test all of them out. It's not like the whole game isn't doomed to being a miserable fuckfest before it starts.
>>44423299
If there's a player not playing a full Wizard in that group, jesus fuck why even show up?
>>44423299
>all-out hyper power wizarding war.
It is, the closest to a "martial" in our party is the mesmerist, who is also the face and leader. And the GM does not uses a calculator, he just looks at the rolled dice, writes down the expression and tells us to roll saves. Always shows it to us when we ask. All under 20 seconds (I measured). Our blaster takes longer to calculate his damage. Like a wizard IRL.
>>44423289
Still/Silent for those pesky moments where you're bound and gagged.
Heighten/Persistent for DC shenanigans.
For mind-affecting stuff, Verdant (plants), Coaxing (oozes and vermin), Threnodic (Undead).
Is Psychic Duel the ultimate way to kill BBEG?
>>44423361
Not always. But it sure is a way to distract and lock him while your companions hack him to pieces.
>>44423347
>For mind-affecting stuff, Verdant (plants), Coaxing (oozes and vermin), Threnodic (Undead).
I'd take augment summoning line over that.
>>44423361
No. Any half-decent BBEG is going to be able to outclass you and probably kill you in one or two rounds within the psychic duel unless you completely build for it. BBEGs will also have servants that will shake them to allow them saves to leave the duel.psychic duels are only locks against completely solo targets.
>>44423289
Tenebrous Spell is pretty good as well, provided you can get the set up for it.
It'd be worth picking up.
Piercing isn't bad if you run into a lot of SR creatures.
>>44423379
> implying everyone doesn't already have augment summoning.
>>44423361
>>44423391
Also its a mind affecting spell so its very easy to get protection against psychic duels. Any time you could beat a will save and the SR of a BBEG you could do far far worse to them than a psychic duel.
>>44423391
>psychic duels are only locks against completely solo targets
Are they legal in PFS?
>>44423421
>PFS
Don't you ever dare say that name in this place.
>>44423426
I remembered crane wing nerf thanks to PFS having mostly solo enemies with one attack.
it's pretty shitty when people try to normalize grays. they should be uncanny and unnerving, like pic related.
>>44423426
Nope. The spell is ban in PFS.
How to boost the amount of your skill ranks, aside from getting more INT, being a rogue or that trait from Legacy of Fire?
So, I wana play a dedicated caster/battlefield control character in an upcoming game... and I have no idea what I'm actually doing. I'm looking at either Wizard or Arcanist as my class, but I'd like some advice on how to get the most mileage out of these classes without reverting to just being a "blaster caster" who shoots fireballs the entire time.
>>44423494
Being human gives you one per level. You can spend your favored class bonus on them. There's a feat in ultimate psionics if thats allowed called open minded that gives 1 skill rank per level. INT boosting items can provide pseudo-ranks in certain skills.
>>44423509
Everything on the PFSRD allowed, but core races only. We'll be starting at level 5. So advice on how to start and then how to progress beyond that is helpful.
>>44423509
>I have no idea what I'm actually doing.
In that case, try reading a guide. There are links to guides in OP pasta.
>>44423509
First and most important thing is to discuss how illusions work with your DM. Many DMs hold that using spellcraft to identify the spell or putting your hand through etc is automatic disbelief and many also hold that just being too close to an illusion is "interacting with it" and "interacting" takes no action. If they believe this kind of crap DON'T USE ILLUSIONS.
Otherwise, USE ILLUSIONS.
Aside from that, spells like create pit, charm person, enlarge person (this one is cast on your allies), web, fog cloud and similar spells are what you should look into.
>>44423533
Spellcraft only identifies the illusion if you are seen casting it, according to my GM. Illusions include tactile and other sensations unless they're specifically mentioned not to.
"Interacting" with the illusion does not include just being "close" to it, unless the person in question suspects it's an illusion already, and even then they have to make a Will save or do some kind of "check" like "Detect Magic" to catch it.
>>44423556
That sounds more or less like how illusions are intended to run. You should consider if you want to do battlefield control the use of illusions. Creating sudden walls the enemy has to walk around or wont fire attacks through can be clever, as can convincing them there are traps or lava they have to avoid etc. You can be more creative than that of course, especially outside of combat.
One of my favorite tricks is to run around a corner, duck through a door then use an illusion to hide the door so the chasing foe will run right past.
>>44423556
>>44423533
Not him but.. Isn't Silent Image still blocking LoS even after disbelief? Disbelief just reveal that it's not real.
>>44423509
Why are you worried when you've picked a badass tier 1 caster in a mid level game?
>>44423697
Well, I'm not really that "good" at Pathfinder. Last time I made a Wizard, I ended up making a "blaster caster", blowing all my spell slots in the first few combat encounters, and then generally spending the rest of my time hiding because I was useless...
>>44423533
Just becareful, some Illusion spell has the duration of concentration (standard action), so unless you are a Gnome who can take feat to do it as swift action, you won't be able to do anything else.
>>44423691
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Illusion
A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.
Would giving daevics 8 + Int skill points be enough to push them into tier 3?
>>44423728
>skill points
>pushing someone up a tier
If it was, chained rogue wouldn't be t5.
>>44423708
Read, anon.
Handbooks exist for this reason.
>>44423737
Rogues don't have skill-upping veils that get better with more base skill points though.
>>44423728
Probably not. It would probably just shit on Gurus.
Daevics are pretty damn good anyway, i would have called them low tier 3 if i had a say in it.
>>44423754
How can we make daevics mid/high tier 3 without tampering with skill points?
>>44423708
Have scrolls/wands etc. with you for emergency like that.
For scrolls, it's better to pick spell that doesn't rely on DC like buffing spells or summon spells.
>>44423774
Tiers are about versatility. Act on that.
>>44423750
>MORE skill bonus will make rogues t3
>MORE damage will make fighters t3
no.
If your GM offer you soulknife's mind blade along with form, shape and enhanced, how many feats would you give up for that?
>>44423862
I'd probably offer it to people if they took wild talent first, and then they get it at -3 level progression, with a feat available to take it up to full progression. Considerable investment for many characters, but usable.
>>44423261
Why do you have to be so mad? It's only a game, friendo :^)
>>44423795
untrue.
Tiers are about varying levels of power and versatility.
What would be good quest ideas for warzones, /pfg/?
When the PCs are just mercenaries for one side or another
>>44424304
PC level, magic level, conflict scale?
>>44424334
PC 5, lotsa magic, huge conflict between the humans and the orcs (happening in the future, they went time travelling)
>>44424360
>happening in the future, they went time travelling
-_-
Tech level? Time travel availability?
>>44424304
>>44424360
Szuriel has engineered the entire conflict, and a demonic harbinger in service to another horseman is assisting the party in an effort to slightly weaken her in another plot of daemonic intrigue.
>>44423509
IMO Arcanist has the potential to be broken harder, simply due to one of their archetypes allowing them to take a wizard school without an opposition school. Conjuration/Teleportation and their Dimensional Slide Exploit can give you pretty unmatched mobility, and neither provokes Attacks of Opportunity. If you're not planning on making/buying items like wands, the also have some pretty good damaging-dealing exploits. Why spend slots on Magic Missile when you can do Acid Jet or Ice Missile that scale for longer and have extra effects? Finally, they have some exploit called "quick study" or something that lets them swap a spell they've prepared for one they havent as a full-round action, essentially giving them access to their entire spell list at any given time (especially out of combat).
That being said, the Bonus Feats Wizards get is really nice if you wana supply your party with magic items or use Meta-Magic alot... and if you're campaign is staying low-level, they get access to higher levels of spells a little bit earlier than Arcanists (like 1-3 levels). If your campaign has a good level of loot drop, just go with Wizard and use wands/scrolls to make up for the fact that you can't switch up your spell list on the fly. (Getting a free familiar is nice too, although the Arcanist can get one through an Arcanist Exploit).
Personally it's a matter of taste and what you wana do. In more combat-heavy campaigns, I'd say Arcanist is slightly better
I don't get the occultist at all.
I heard it's just written like rotting skin, what does it do?
>>44424304
Molthune invading Nirmathas, party can join either side of the conflict, although Molthune will pay and offer more.
Qadira and Taldor, Grand Campaign version 2.
Border skirmishes between Cheliax and Andoran.
Land of the Linnorm Kings longship crew, out to raid the south lands of Nidal and Cheliax culminating in the sacking of Kintargo.
Of those, I would do Molthune since the conquest is real, the need for mercenaries is at its highest there, and there are clear sides with clear rewards.
>>44423862
I dunno. Could be worth like 3 feats if its at your character level. Without blade skills not more than that.
>>44422820
First time I see a comic supporting Ayn Rand. Feels weird.
What PF race is closest to the Goliath in 5e? I have an idea for a brawler.
>>44423862
I don't know about scaling, but meta-physical weapons are always awesome.
>>44424656
It isn't supporting Ayn Rand. Anon you have a problem if you read that story and see Ayn Rand as being supported. Not to mention its only half of the story.
>>44424537
>Molthune invading Nirmathas, party can join either side of the conflict, although Molthune will pay and offer more.
Molthune is a criminally underused part of the setting and their conquest of Generic Villages and Towns Land is awesome.
It lets you really get your raider on, or rule over a village without answering to a higher authority.
Plus there isn't a lot of lore on them, which works in your favor since you can now bullshit.
>>44424750
>>44424537
>LE vs CG
>I wonder who'll be the focus of the AP when they get around to it
Heres a story i think we've all been through.
>>44424671
Sauce? I've seen it somewhere before, but apparently not in steelforge.
>>44424766
Second part
>>44424767
It was cut from steelforge iirc.
>>44424767
It's from my document that got submitted to steelforge. No idea if it'll make it in.
>>44424759
Who cares about the AP? What we know *right now* is Molthune is gobbling up Nirmathas, and those poor peasant farmers are *desperate* for heroes.
It's classic adventuring at it's finest, where you've got an Evil Empire, good peasant yokels, and a whole lot of opportunity to carve out a place in the world.
>>44424783
Why did it get removed from steelforge?
How do bonus damage dice from martial stances (or Flaming AoMF) interract with damage inflicted with grappling (as a part of maintaining grapple; with grab or constrict) by RAI?
>>44424961
If it applies to your unarmed/naturals, it applies to grappling.
>>44424922
Well i dont know. I just think that, i don't even know if its true.
>>44424961
By RAW its whatever damage your unarmed strike does (or a natural weapon) is the damage so anything that boosts that boosts the damage.
>>44422757
Heyo, /pfg/
Would it be worth it to go 2-3 levels in Hunter to improve an animal companion? I'm currently a Ranger, if that changes anything.
>>44423097
A jar of pig grease/fat
Our rogue has found an endless number of uses for that stuff
>>44424703
She and Stirner are the only ones actually playing the game. The other two would be considered That Guys in most tables.
>>44424766
>>44424783
>The PCs have diffenrent levels, with one being level five and another being level 10
>most of the players are That Guy
>Except the paladin, somehow
>DM doesn't roll the fight just "LOL, you dead"
>Bully the only one doing actual roleplay at the table
What a shitty group.
>>44425029
No there's a feat called "Boon Companion". Get that instead. It makes your animal companion match your level instead of being 3 behind.
You can also get evolved animal companion if you want to go overboard.
>>44425029
in general, classes operate better if you specialize in them in Pathfinder.
the problem is that you won't expand your animal companion choices by going hunter; for some reason Rangers have a really limited AC selection and it's weaker than normal (though Boon companion makes up for that). The animal focus might be worth it, but the only reason to go with level 2 or 3 would be the teamwork feats, and those heavily depend on how many other martials are in your party.
regardless, I'd personally ask if you can get your Ranger levels swapped out for Hunter wholesale; they're just better - the only thing Hunters lose over Ranger is a lack of favored enemy and Combat Style - which is covered by the bonus teamwork feats they get in a sort of "Teamwork" style. that's literally it - Hunter is better in every other way.
If that's not on the table, then consider strongly what you get for dipping; you can't swap to a stronger animal companion, but your AC does gain the ability to learn Skirmisher Ranger tricks, such as Cunning Pantomime, which is beyond hilarious. You also get animal aspect, to buff your companion a bit. If you go to level 2 or 3, you get bonus feats. You also get some low-grade spellcasting, but that doesn't really mean much.
Is it worth it? Not in my opinion. you're better off just picking up Boon Companion and staying straight Ranger.
>>44424996
>>44425011
Thanks. This is how I ruled it in my games.
I guess only normal and grab grapple damage recieve this bonus damage and constrict doesn't, right?
>>44425130
Constrict isn't an attack, so no bonus damage there.
>>44425166
Cool, thanks again.
>>44425083
I think you didn't get the joke if your focus was on details like the different levels. Back in ye olden days people played with different levels in the same group and were accustomed to it for some reason and pop culture's view of D&D maintains that there are different levels.
Also no, arguing that the treasure should be shared with the people or donated to the temple or returned to its rightful owner is not being that guy nor is it uncommon. Any Paladin who's following the spirit of his code for example will call to return stolen goods and most good aligned party members wont loot the shrines of good gods etc.
>>44425058
dont forget bags of flour
>>44425084
>>44425104
Alright, thanks. I'll probably stay straight Ranger then.
>>44425318
What, for making bread?
In fact, why are there no botanist wizards?
Like, all I know is the Ghoran, but where are the magically-engineered wheat or potatoes?
>>44425303
>>44425083
Oh i see most of your post was replying to the second comic about the nature of lich. Yes, the joke is that they are all that guys and refusing to fight the monster. Also yeah, they just roll and you are dead because the lich used finger of death and that's what finger of death does. You save or you die.
>>44425337
toss it around for invisable opponants, finding secret doors etc
>>44425083
They're probably different levels because half of them won't fight
>>44425351
That isn't the lich one is it. Its the orc one. Fuck. Look yes the joke is that philosophers are bad at D&D. The D&D isn't accurate because the joke is about the philosophers.
>>44425303
>>44425351
I wish I had a group like this. Instead everyone's just... dumb.
Hi guys
So, tl;dr
I have some new guys in my group that are having trouble grasping actions in combat.
Does anyone have a chart like pic related that can explain what someone can do in combat action wise?
On top of that, any general charts that can help explain the rules in general to new people?
Thanks.
>>44425398
I don't know. There's a certain joy in stupidity. We don't get good stories to tell from smart people, we get them from the paladin who eats the mushrooms from my spell component pouch (the ones i kept around for euphoric cloud) and ends up throwing away his armor after he is convinced its possessed by outsiders.
>>44425424
Uh well personally i find those charts confusing. My advice would be to print out some paper and cut it up into cards with scissors. Then write down the things he can do on them!
So write down say his normal attacks like one for the sword and one for the bow and what the bonuses are etc on these little bits of paper and any other special abilities he has.
You can write move, standard, swift or full round action on them and maybe make like a move, standard swift etc card he can "tap" like in magic the gathering or wow tcg.
>>44425337
>for bread
Invisible people nigga
>>44425436
I mean, we get some good laughs in, but I'm the only one who seems to enjoy the math/strategy part of things, and the attempts at roleplaying are actually pretty much what you described. I get this feeling that it could be so much better and then I get a bit sad.
>>44425424
Wouldn't recommend charts, get them to read this
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Actions-In-Combat
>>44425492
Yeah well pretty much the same here for one of my groups.
But because I like the math/strategy part and because i recognize the link between the math/strategy part and the roleplaying part everyone calls me a min maxing munchkin who only sees his characters as numbers.
I'm the only one with a written backstory in the group. I'm the only one who consistently gives up mechanical advantages to stay true to my character and I'm the only one who weakens himself to focus on cool over pure power.
What kinds of tiefling bloodlines would you like to see?
What about aasimar?
>>44425789
How many threads are you going to ask this question in?
>>44425789
Are there any Celestials/Fiends that don't have an Aasimar/Tiefling bloodline?
>>44425844
the new ones from B5
the snake fiends
elemental fiends
>>44423277
Question about sacred geometry: do you have to use all the numbers rolled in your dice pool? Or can you use, say, 3 out of the 5 numbers and still cast the spell?
Anyone have a link for weapon master handbook.
>Pic related trying to cleanse arueshalae with her mighty and divinely granted dick.
Y/N?
>>44425972
You don't have to do anything with dice, the only requirement of Sacred Geometry is to get out your eraser and start looking up feats.
>>44426051
Can you fucking not
>>44425972
Just use one of the online calculators for it, anon.
>>44426051
She doesn't have a dick though.
And what kind of question are you even asking? Arueshalae's cleansing needs to be done with words and deeds, not dick, in fact dick is the last thing she needs prior to redemption.
Who are the Zon-Kuthon worshippers in the lore? I want examples for my upcoming Zon-Kuthon cleric.
>>44426124
What if she corrupts the dick?
>>44426081
>>44426124
I'm guessing he's suggesting an idea for the porn commission an anon mentioned he's going to buy a couple generals back. A lot of people were shouting for Arueshalae and several other people were suggesting one of the two people in the commission should be a chick with a dick because the anon paying for the commission stipulated it needed to be two girls because he's not a fan of man-ass.
All that said though, who is the girl in that picture? I don't recognize her name or her art. Is she an NPC from WotR?
>>44422757
Aw shit, since when did the races I made with you guys get put in the pastebin? That's swell.
>>44426154
Nidal is the nation with ZonZon as their lord.
Also Arueshalae's issue with dick is she might accidentally suck out a soul while sucking it. That's kinda the thing, she's a starving cannibal with a juicy piece of ass and she's fully aware she might take a big bite without thinking it, which would damn her forever.
>>44426158
From the hair cut and armour design, probably a SOB from 40k/a fantasy character art based on one.
>>44426198
That's what I was thinking too, but I'm not into Warhammer much and my only familiarity with the SoB is passing familiarity from other people's posts about them that I occasionally see. So, I wasn't sure.
>>44426226
>>44426158
It's a Galfrey, isn't that the royal family of Mendev?
>>44426090
>>44426071
That's ridiculously OP and I know that if I tried to use an online calculator my GM would have a problem with it.
Then again, if I used pen and paper it would slow down the game.
>>44426292
There's a reason that Sacred Geometry is considered HERESY here.
>>44426177
Oh, you're that anon? I made an unrooted dryad last month but live in fear of myconids perpetually now. Thanks, I guess.
So /pfg/, help me out there. I need to know if there's a big spiked ball weapon I can roll around, because I want to combine that with bull rushes, overrun, and Hamatula Strike to become the Prince.
>>44426347
There was a dwarven exotic weapon that just just a big metal ball
>>44426376
You're not thinking of the Dwarven Chain Flail, are you?
>>44426051
Yes, please!
I'm thinking of doing a TWF barb/alchemist build. I can reach 32 strength by level 5 (1 level in barb, 4 in alchemist - 20 strength base, 4 rage, 4 mutagen, 4 bull's strength extract), but it will take me two turns to fully buff myself at the start of the battle.
My question is: is there a way to drink a mutagen or extract faster at low levels, or counteract the need for me to use up so many standard actions buffing myself? The feat that allows quicker potion drinking specifically does not work.
>>44422809
Looks pretty cool. I only have a very basic understanding of maneuvers, though.
>>44426495
Make potions of Bull's Strength and drink it as a move action. Unless you traded out potion making as a class feature.
Otherwise, get a pair of Poisoner's Gloves (or two pair if you've got vestigial arms going) and punch yourself twice/four times to buff.
>>44426495
Use Ragechemist archetype but cut out the Bull's Strength extract - frankly, every turn after the start of battle which the party's Barbarian is not spending on the frontline puts the party in danger.
>>44426341
As you should.
How powerful is a Mythic Commoner if no one else in the party is Mythic?
>>44426730
>recommending ragechemist
>>44426539
Poisoner's gloves look really cool, however they would probably only be efficient if you were delivering two different buffing effects to yourself. I would definitely like to make this work though, since the idea of a Hyde/BANE type guy is what I am going for.
>>44426730
Ragechemist would be decent but since my will save will be trash, getting hit five times and then falling unconscious does not seem like a good idea.
hey /pfg/, why can't i make my characters anyting other than humans?
I dont wanna be the boring player anymore, but everything else is so clunky and full of unnecessary things...
I would love to make my next characters a femdwarf, but there's all that useless stuff... Human is so clean and slick, "there you go, +1 skill and an extra feat, go bless yourself!" whilst dwarf gets bonuses to not get tripped and to check for stoneworks, woah!
Are there the first symptoms of a min-maxer?
>>44426861
>probably only be efficient if you were delivering two different buffing effects to yourself
As opposed to two of the same buffing effect...?
>>44426880
Take a look at alternate racial traits if your GM allows them, some of them can be quite useful compared to what humans get. Elves, for example, can swap out some traits to get +2 to casting defensively and +2 for piercing spell resistance. There's no free trait a human can take that can make up for both of those effects.
>>44426880
They are the symptoms of someone who prefers simplicity over complexity.
Clean and slick isn't good. Humans have no mechanical identity because of how vague their abilities are and are overpowered for nearly every build because of it. Humans being "simple" has lead them to be a hindrance to roleplaying because they cause people like you to think every race should be like humans and then shy away from those other races.
>>44426894
As opposed to one buff by itself.
>>44426880
Honestly, it sounds a little like it.
>>44426926
One of the things I liked about 5e (which I think is a quirk from 4e) is that no race had a racial penalties to an attribute, so while some races were still better at the job than others, you were never completely barred from a race because it's actively BAD at using that class. Of course, this is in a system where your ability scores are less vital to literally everything you do.
Does anyone have a pdf of Pathfinder Player Companion: People of the River? I can't find it at all.
>>44422757
Never done a two handed character before. Aside from stuff like Power Attack and Cleave, what would y'all suggest?
>>44426977
Nevermind, I'm a fucking retard and you have already helped me pre-emptively in the OP.
>>44426977
https://mega.nz/#F!vIJn1Y6Q!MbyyqQK6u0tWWSAimsIjiw!GQoFHYwQ
Should be somewhere in there
>>44427015
>Cleave
I'm honestly not sure I'd suggest cleave myself, cleave is pretty situational in itself, and my GM rarely throws us encounters where it would be relevant.
>>44427093
Cleave is great at level 1, just retrain later.
>>44427015
The point of a two handed character is that that's all you need.
I'm making an Inquisitor. I notice I have free repeating crossbow proficiency. I do not intend to invest anything whatsoever into ranged combat.
These in mind, is the Heavy Repeating Crossbow the best choice of ranged weapon? Also if I use Call Out, does that force people to come fight me in melee?
>>44426976
Half the people i play pathfinder with think attribute scores are meaningless and all that matters is roleplaying, because any class can do well at that and there's value in playing for instance an 8 int wizard. They then use this as an argument for why rolling 3d6 down the line is good.
>>44427132
The only thing crossbows are good for is 1st level wizards who ran out of spells.
>>44427132
The repeating crossbow is never the best choice of ranged weapon. It's a trap. Use the longbow instead, as an inquisitor you should have the strength to use it without much investment.
>>44427155
JJ once argued this on the Paizo forums when he talked about how a character design is acceptable if the player gets at least one cool moment in the campaign.
>>44426926
Non humans should be purged you degenerate
>>44427177
I hate, hate, haten HATE shit like that. 3d6 down the line was NEVER acceptable, even back in ye olden times when elves were a class. Roleplaying games are supported on a foundation of mechanics, without it you do not have a game, you have a bunch of people doing freeform.
The idea that roleplaying and rollplaying are mutually exclusive is the biggest fucking fallacy ever. The mechanics are JUST as important as the roleplaying, because they are the basis in which you build the roleplay your character. If I'm playing a wizard with 8 int, I'm not playing a fucking wizard, I'm playing a deluded commoner.
>>44427177
Characters should be cool every time their area of expertise comes up damn it.
>>44427217
Sure but what you are doing right now is roleplaying motivated so it doesn't bother me. What bothers me about humans is how mechanically they have no real identity and how that doesn't foster roleplaying. An elf is proficient in the weapons of his people, so players gravitate towards that and introduce it into their elven identity. Dwarves are a people known for their mountain fortresses, so they have stonecunning to represent their knowledge of underground architecture.
Bonus Feat and Skilled just come from "i dunno, humans are adaptable i guess?" which stems from the very flawed idea that humans are necessarily any more adaptable than other intelligent species.
>>44427132
Actually, Call Out is really ambiguous as fuck. I think an opponent with a ranged weapon (or spellcasting) gets to continue using that as long as they target themself or me. But who's permissable target? There's no indication that it has to be humanoid, there's no Mind Affecting language, there's no Fear involved, so if you challenge some ooze doing its own thing, it has to participate in this weird courtly duel thing with you?
>>44427093
>>44427112
Oh, cool. Thanks for the help!
>>44427297
But anon, the moment you start assigning things to Humanity is the moment you're saying "Humans *should* be like this" which alienates the huge, paying portion of your fanbase that would find that toxic, problematic, and probably misogynist.
>>44427350
'Duel' is an actual mechanic somewhere. Like, with it's own set of formal rules.
>>44427155
>3d6 down the line
What's the absolute best way to generate attribute scores?
I ask because I can't get over how useful 5d6 drop lowest 2, reroll 1s is.
>>44427366
Last I remember, "Duel" as a mechanic is literally just a normal fight with everyone having an at-will Iron Shell counter.
You roll to hit, they roll to parry, repeat until someone connects.
>>44427366
Yes, and they don't say anything about this.
>>44427380
I just use point buy every time
>>44427272
>I hate, hate, haten HATE shit like that.
What you gonna do about it, fakkboy?
We play with 3d6 perfectly fine, it is just more fun this way.
>>44427272
Its not like there is any way to argue with those people though. Its almost a religion in a certain sense, in that it comes back round to just a handful of arguments which they assert have never been defeated and each time you defeat one they cycle back to the previous.
>>44427350
Maybe against stuff like oozes you are just stomping your feet on the ground in a way that annoys it?
>>44427380
Point buy is infinitely better. It lets you make the character you actually want to play instead of potentially getting fucked over by luck.
Rolled 2, 2, 3, 1, 5, 6, 1, 5, 1, 4, 1, 5, 1, 6, 2, 6, 5, 1 = 57 (18d6)
>>44427417
>Want to play as tentacle monster synthesist composed only of tentacles, teeth and eyeballs
>Serpentine base form seems good for this purpose
>It only has 12 starting strength
>the stat they encourage you to raise is also by design, meant to degrade as you progress
>Final product no matter how much effort you put into it will end up with shit stats
Why do they even bother with the serpentine form then? Its literally the kineticists of all the forms.
>>44422809
I recognize that artist AND that name.
>>44427417
You don't understand, you're having fun in the wrong way. If you don't have fun in the way this anon wants he will be very upset, do you want to make him upset?
>>44427409
>>44427460
Okay, then what's the best PB?
32?
>>44427399
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/combat/duels.html
>>44427417
I have no problem with you enjoying those mechanics, what I do have a problem with is you saying it's the "right" way to play, and that people who prefer point buy are just filthy min-maxers.
Pathfinder handles 3d6 down the line like I handle dicks, painfully and without some bloodshed.
>>44427297
I think it's because humans are more varied rather than adaptive
>>44427380
I can never get behind rolling. It just ends up making one character better than others which kinda makes sense in that we are not made equal but I find it to be a fun killer when there is a character over/under powered because of some (un)lucky rolls at the start of the campaign... I really should get to writing that program that randomly gives you an array based upon how how likely that is to occur if you were to roll it.
>>Take vestigial arm discovery two times
>>Give the arms poisoner's gloves, one filled with bull's strength, the other filled with enlarge person
>>Turn 1 of combat
>>Two arms inject the alchemist with the extracts, and the alchemist drinks a feral strength mutagen
>>Turn 2
>>Rage and unleash the rape train
Anything here that is not allowed in the rules?
>>44427462
If POW and DSP content is allowed, grab deadly agility. Failing that, Amulet of Mighty Fists with Agile on it. You're welcome.
>>44427491
20
15 for 'realistic"/"low-powered" games
>>44426154
Man, I wish spiked chains werent castrated in pathfinder.
>>44427460
People will just respond that "assign lets you do that too" and "4d6 drop lowest means you wont get as fucked stats!" which is great until you wanted to play a big burly barbarian and got 12-14 in everything or you want to play a Fighter who's also pretty cunning and have 3 18s and 3 8s so you pretty much have to give up on dreams of good mental stats. God i can remember when i had one 18 and one 13 and everything else was 11 or below. I was like "well I guess I'm a wizard now" because there was no real way to play anything that needed more than one attribute.
>>44427491
25 errtime
>>44427491
20 or 25
>>44427491
http://jody-white.com/pathfinder-ability-score-calculator.php
Pick whichever one your group likes best.
>>44427491
25, some people say 32.
>>44427524
Holy fuck no. Even on 20 you get screwed over if you want more than two attributes.
>>44427513
>I can never get behind rolling. It just ends up making one character better than others which kinda makes sense in that we are not made equal but I find it to be a fun killer when there is a character over/under powered because of some (un)lucky rolls at the start of the campaign...
Anon... This is why you roll three sets of the roll, and the two rolls you have left over get thrown into a big ole pot of leftover rolls that people can take from if a better array presents itself.
>>44427524
20 PB is only slightly better than "just play a fucking wizard". You're still in retarded-autistic-fighter-with-no-goddamn-sense territory at 20. 25 is minimum for a game where you aren't running a party of full casters, 32 is the sweet spot if you want MAD classes to function well.
>>44427562
Or just use point buy
I'm thinking of trying to make a spatial magic type character who focuses more on battlefield control over anything else. DM is fine with refluffing spells to fit the theme.
Any ideas and what spells to grab?
>>44427529
Yeah they went too far on it. 2d4 damage and no crit modifier for disarm, trip and finesse. Could have thrown double weapon on there or given it 19-20 or even something like +2 to AoOs.
I wonder if maybe /pfg/ should work together on a rebalanced weapons homebrew? We could go through the weapons and spice up the weak ones so they can compete well with the good ones. I mean everyone agrees crossbows and most exotics are shit but maybe we could do something about it.
>>44427573
>32 is the sweet spot if you want MAD classes to function well.
But anon, 32 is just overpowered! If you want to play with that much attributes just do freeform!
Jeez, imagine a Fighter with positive Charisma, what a waste!
>>44427522
The problem here is that dex suffers penalties as the eidolon increases in size. It seems that you'll end up with mediocre ability scores even if you focus solely on str or dex.
I really wish there was some sort of incentive to take that base form. Quadruped gets pounce and Biped has the highest strength and starting evolutions that will work regardless of what build you have in mind.
>>44427502
There is no right or wrong way to play. 3d6 in order just works for me and my group. We generate stats first and choose a class based on the roll. We also play with suboptimal builds and no concern about party composition.
>>44427586
>Void school, Reveal Weakness, have your team-mates love you forever.
>>44427491
20 for a "standard" game, IE the kind that the Adventure Paths are balanced around.
25 for the ability to use any base class without much or any issue, at least attribute-wise (things like Chained Monk or Kineticist still suffer for other reasons, but no amount of point-buy will fix those).
>>44427619
I love you anon but so many of us have played with people who legitimately believed that i think most people wont see the sarcasm.
The other day when i suggested 32 to my DM he said "why not 42 so you can get all 18s!". My brain seriously hurt at that comment and i had to explain how all 18s is 102 points.
>All these people not playing casters
This is your problem with low point buy. Martials are an NPC class anyways.
>>44427665
>No amount of Point Buy will fix those
I disagree on the monk actually. The higher the point buy the more his disadvantages fade. His ability to get wisdom to extra things and his large number of attacks serving as a good multiplier for damage stats (especially if he actually gets enough strength to hit things) mean he scales better and better the higher the PB goes.
Plus the chained monk has archetypes that don't suck.
>>44427683
>The other day when i suggested 32 to my DM he said "why not 42 so you can get all 18s!".
You know what you do when they say this?
You actually make a character with 32 PB, make the same character with the PB they want, and then show them the two and describe how most of the "improvements" are actually just semi-fluff to make the character feel like a character.
A Human Zweihander Sentinel I'm playing with 30 PB is running on 18 13 14 15 12 13, they should see this isn't actually that overpowered by any stretch of the word.
>>44427701
>That pic
>Tall buxom blonde with a cute little boy
>>44427741
No see they aren't capable of seeing it that way. This DM believed all characters needed things like 10s and 8s to make them believable roleplaying characters, because 10 was the human normal and all characters should be relatively close to that.
The fact the mechanics don't support that and taking 8s etc is usually considered (by this same person) to be min-maxing and taking "dump stats" doesn't matter.
>>44427665
AP are actually balance around 15 PB. At least that is what Paizo always say.
>>44427819
To be fair, the APs are also balanced in such a way where Crane Wing was legitimately overpowered. Fuck you paizo.
>>44427763
>girl
>boy
Maybe I have spent too much time on /d/
With all the arguingbabout stat gen, maybe this is a good time to ask a question I've been wondering. Should you adjust encounter difficulty for high PB? Like, if I have my players use 32 PB, should I treat the party as one level higherv for determining appropriate CR challenges?
Might get in a Gestalt game pretty soon
Any fun combos? Paizo only sadly.
>>44427857
Lordy no.
32PB won't affect CR value basically at all, unless you design encounters like Paizo (see: >>44427834 ) where the only definition of "more difficult" is "the lone big stompy guy with no special powers deals 50 damage instead of 30!"
>>44426880
Dwarf is actually one of the best core race. Every classes can use more WIS and CON.
Hardy is incredibly strong and you can get a trait and a feat to improve on it. Stonecunning is great in dungeon.
The other racial traits are pretty much just a freebie.
>>44427871
I personally love Harbinger/Witch
Also Alchemist/Wizard and Oracle/Paladin and Ranger/Druid and Sorcerer/Summoner and Barbarian/Oracle
>>44427871
Despite the poor choices of classes I'd like to do an arcanist and wizard purely for "lol I'm not running out of spells" factor. Use the arcanist for spells I'll probably need and the wizard for utility spells and what not.
>>44427884
Well at low levels, that basically is how encounters are balanced, unless you're fighting the wizard's squad of level one apprentices or something. Assuming the martials have gotten an extra CON mod and another plus one on reflex, AC, and initiative, or a better will save, that's a notable improvement that gets magnified by the small scale of low levels. You can argue you shouldn't play at low levels, but that's besides the point. Mages will probably max their casting stat anyway, so increasing PB probably won't increase that. Likely, the extra PB will go to CON or DEX, secondary stats for all mages. Again, raising each of those mods even by one can make a notable difference while at low levels.
>>44427978
Agreed. I rarely play dwarves because I always seem to be feat-starved (too much I want to do), but they are a rather good race if you can afford to be down a feat.
>>44427573
15 : Fullcaster
20 : Gish
25 : Martials
32 : Anything
>>44427834
No, that's PFS.
>>44427871
Alchemist/Wizard
Alchemist/Magus
Alchemist/Sage Sorcerer
Alchemist/Any INT Based class
Promethean/Preservationist is a good archetype so you can have a pocket summoner buddy
>going to play wrath of the righteous soon
>stuck between battle oracle, paladin, and unchained sanctified rogue
Party is a monk, spiritualist, and another is undecided. I have no idea what to play at all from all these ideas.
>>44427573
What about 30?
>>44428004
I was thinking of maybe going Arcane Duelist bard with something else. Not sure what to put it with yet. Maybe just a fighter. I love me some FEATS.
Or maybe taking this opportunity to do a Paladin/Mysterious stranger build or actually making the shitty Spellslinger Archetype work and go full gish with it by going something similar like 1st level spellslinger/gunslinger and then the rest as Sorc/Gunslinger or something.
I want to avoid the obvious BREAKTHEGAMEBYHAVINGMORESPELLSTHANANYONEELSE.
>>44428090
30 is fine too, but 32 is just enough to mitigate too many odd scores
>>44428061
What fits in the anything category that isn't full caster, fish, or martial?
>>44428004
> Harbinger/Witch
That sounds really action heavy. How does it play for ya?
>>44427871
Unchained Monk/Goliath Druid. Shapeshift into a giant and deliver massive sized kung fu. Alternatively get feral combat training and use flurry of blows with a T-Rex bite.
>>44428095
>BREAKTHEGAMEBYHAVINGMORESPELLSTHANANYONEELSE
Having fuck tons of spells doesn't really help when you are still limited to 1 (or 2 with quickened ) spells per round. Generally you want an active and a passive class.
>>44428128
MAD classes like Monk, Paladin, Rogue, Magus.
>>44428137
Not the same guy, but it is very action-heavy. That being said, you can throw around curses and hexes to make your Cursed Razor maneuvers even better, and you're pretty much solely an INT-SAD character with it. I personally prefer Hedgewitch//Harbinger but that's because I like Spheres of Power and Bonus Combat Feats too much.
Also, how do you do Gareth? It feels like it's been a while.
>>44428128
Fighter without head injuries.
>>44428145
Damn that would be funny as fuck, but sadly, the game is very dungeon based, so going full Eren Jaeger would go.. Poorly.
>>44428157
I can see that yeah.
It almost seems like Sorcerer/Oracle (or bard) Swashbuckler would be easy to get away with, and make the swashbuckler side feel decent. I'll think on it.
>>44428173
>has a special designation for Gishes
>doesn't include the iconic gish class
>>44428112
You mean odd number scores?
As a player I never really minded them, as it offered a little flexibility in growth later on to me.
>>44428086
Battle oracle of course.
>>44428199
The Inquisitor is a gish.
Magus is a MAD gish. Get it?
>>44428086
Go Paladin, Touched by Divinity with Iomedae.
http://rpgbot.net/pathfinder/characters/classes/alchemist/archetypes.php
>>pounce: Fantastic if you're a melee character. Works profoundly well with Vivisectionist.
To me, this implies that an alchemist can take from both the Vivisectionist and Beastmorph archetypes. That seems extremely powerful if it is the case - am I correct in thinking that this is possible?
>>44428176
Like fucking shit, anon. Holidays still kicking my shit, been in a depressive funk, tooth still killing me. Been avoiding professional work in favor of running my quest to cope.
You?
>>44428189
Okay then, how about an unchained Rogue/Druid that transforms into diminutive animals? You only can get dex to damage and sneak attack so your fucking tiny ass form can do massive damage. You'd be like Ant-Man.
