What makes a good dungeon crawler?
What can I do to let people have a good time fighting through a dungeon? Both in terms of the dungeon itself and in the system I use.
>>44397234
Well, for the DM's part, there's "interesting location".
Historically, dungeons were prisons/basements of castles, but in fantasy world dungeons can mean anything from that, to tombs, wizard labs, etc.
I feel like the more interesting types of dungeons would be ones with clear purpose and some of the remaining pieces of its purpose still functional.
For example, an underground alchemy lab would have all kinds of faded and old notes on various experiments that had been in the works that players could try to complete.
In sprawling, abandoned estates, fun might be found in the odd leisure activities some of the household might have partaken in. (like clockwork dolls which, while creepy, could be useful tools to distract enemies)
>>44397291
Alright so an interesting, still semi-functional/living location. Alright.
Any ideas about what a good system for this sort of thing is? What the important elements are?
>>44397377
also consider how those who have moved in might be utilizing the location. Like if bandits moved into an alchemy lab, they might be big into drug dealing or trying to make magical super soldier serums.
Or just avoid shit if it kills too many of them.
>>44397562
Alright, makes sense. Monsters should have reasons to be there, not just be generic critters that live on nothing and are around for no reason other than to die to players.
Interesting rooms. While there's a certain appeal in a bunch of samey stone walled corridors connecting a bunch of samey rectangular rooms, it's really cool when they're unique, even if it's just one simple feature. This one's got a fountain. This one's got a mural. This one's got a bunch of clay pots. This one's got a bunch of broken clay pots. There's a passage hidden behind a tapestry.
You can also get a little more complicated with it. There's dust on the floor so you can see where the goblin traffic is. There's a dumbwaiter from the kitchen straight to the noble's dining room, but it only fits a single (small) character or needs repairs. There's an official map of the place, but only the "public" areas are correct, the rest are wrong on purpose; the players might figure this out by going to the barracks instead of the treasury.
>>44397234
The vertigo every time I see that picture.
>>44397640
>Interesting rooms
This.
I mean, you probably "need" some deliberately banal rooms to make the special ones seem cooler, but a dungeon crawl consisting solely of rooms whose main distinguishing feature is either "there's a monster" or "there's not a monster" is boring.
>>44397234
The one game that comes to mind right now is Ultima underworld, or Diablo 1
Usually with dungeon crawl games you want to have interesting environments along woth non-combatants in the dungeon itself.
>>44397558
Old school DnD and most fantasy dungeon crawlers work just fine.
>>44397234
>What makes a good dungeon crawler?
GrFi
MiBe
>>44397234
30% fighting, 30% exploring, 30% thinking, 10% running.
No proper classes, very little latent magic. Let them build a character based on the enchanted items and gear that they find.
>>44399439
wat
>>44399439
No, seriously, what does this mean?
>>44402149
>>44399830
How have you not played DCSS?
>>44402196
I'm not to much a fan of it. I prefer stuff like DF adventure mode or Liberal Crime Squad or Kingdoms of Qud.
I'm a fan of RPG dungeon crawls, but not traditional rougelike ones. I don't feel like I have the kind of control I do in RPG ones and it frustrates me.
I don't have any specific advice, but I'd suggest the option to engage in a lot of exploration with obstacles that can be overcome through a variety of creative solutions. It's often not beating monsters or passing saving throws that really gets the players feeling satisfied about an adventure, since stuff like that tends to be just a base mechanical function. It's the feel of overcoming adversity through cleverness and sound decisions.
>>44397558
I tried three systems – AD&D 2E, Dungeon World and GURPS Dungeon Fantasy – with two groups (I GMed Pathfinder for both before). Both liked AD&D, then unanimously agreed to switch to DW after a two-shot. The more crunchy group was impressed with GURPS after a corresponding two-shot, the more narrative one stayed with DW.
So, for just a bit over a year I'm now GMing both GURPS and DW dungeon delving campaigns, and they are, from what I can see, more fun for my players than PF. As for GMing, PF was much easier due to the sheer amount of books and tables and stuff. However, it's very refreshing for me to see how other systems work, and having GMed GURPS and DW I don't see what niche PF would take in my games anymore.
