How fucked is the inquisition if the Emporer is revived?is the Ecclesiarchy less fuckedpossibly of the emporer being declared a heretic
Why would he punish people for being ignorant?
>>44390355
You don't think the hypocrisy and attack on known loyalist goes beyond ignorance into the realm of willful manipulation of the Emporers will?
>>44390355
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH OH SWEET FUCKING JESUS HOLY FUCKING SHIT
The Emperor is every fedora copy-pasta with super human abilities and any remaining human decency removed.
That plus no self awareness, hypocrisy levels of OVER 9000! and a 100% inability to see anything from any one else's point of view. Or even comprehend that they might even have a point of view. That's astounding for someone who is meant to be psychic.
Even the other perpetuals though he was dickcheese.
He approved the Sisterhood.
The Ecclesiarchy would love the return of the Emperor and he'd exploit the fact they have the ears of the entire Imperium.
>>44390330
Pretty fucked.
Lucky for them the Emperor will never be revived, because that might mean changing literally anything of any importance.
>>44390651
Would GW pull a Sigmar for 40k?
>>44390330
The inquisition would probably be fine, they serve an important purpose. Emps would be a little pissed over their being so trigger happy with extermiatius but I don't think he'd dissolve it. The Grey Knight's would be in for a shitstorm for killing civilians to preserve their secrecy, but they're still useful enough to keep around.
The Ecclesiarchy would have more problems. Preaching a book written by Lorgar and wasting Imperial resources to build planetwide cathedrals would be enough to make the Emperor tear his hair out. They'll last long enough to convert everyone to Imperial Truth and no longer
>>44390687
>>44390700
Then the Imperium implodes because a shared faith was one of the things holding it together.
>>44390700
He would trim a lot of loose ends. He'll probably execute half the Inquisitors in the Imperium. Grey-Knights would in for a love whooping.
And the Ecclesiarchy would need to be dealt with silently. Once those power loving Priest smell whats coming for them, the would most likely create a shitstorm.
https://youtu.be/Z_2nM1GEllg
>>44390723
Other than a sense of self preservation and the knowledge that if you didn't have an imperium backing you up you wouldn't last a generation
>>44390743
You think the people would stand with their religious leaders against their deity? I suppose it would make for a good moral dilemma
>>44390811
The masses of the far flung reaches of the imperium are probably gullible as fuck. They would just be told that the Emperor is fake and a heretic, they'd gobble that shit right up. Worst those priest might pull a Lorgar, just because they want something to worship.
>>44390857
We'll when cut through legend and mysticism. How much legitimacy does the Emporer realy have? He was essentially just a an immortal super human before he went on the golden throne.
Everything else that happened after (his deification + mythology, and the complete organization of the imperium) are nothing of his doing. Really he is irrelevant. Only the idea of him matters.
>>44390962
He'd probably just kick-off a Great-Crusade 2.
>Oh you're human?
>Well then, bend your ass or i'll kick your ass.
>>44391061
My 40k lore is shaky at best.
Other then the Primeachs, who themselves are still week in comparison, has any one in the imperium been able to stand up to the Emporer. Or have legitimacy beyond simple raw power, (not armies but psychic ability or whatever), such as in beliefs or regional pride/ culture?
Or does the 40k universe only concern it's self with might makes right at its core? Similar to how Chaos is seen as the alternative by many in the imperium because of the power.
>>44391309
Well the emperor has claim to being the former guiding hand of humanity, being jeebus/allah/buddha/ghandi/Freddy Mercury.
Rowboat and Peturabo were good empire and cultural leaders. But in the end might is the only right in the 40k setting. Which is just fucking swell if your an Ork.
>>44391309
This guy. He excelled at the political, economic and, administrative end of the imperium, and he was the closest thing the Emperor had to a peer. It's largely because of him that the imperium hasn't collapsed by now
>>44391715
That's only more confusing. I get that the emporer is the incarnation of every Relgion leader in history, so why does he hate Relgion when he is religion embodied.
Like can how can his whole philosophy b3 grounded in the physical. Ie conquest, discipline, technology, etc. When his entire bieng is based on the meta-physical. Both his temporal power and legitimacy along with his divine power.
Or am I simply confusing him with the modern imperium's perception of him.
>>44391309
Yes, might does make right in 40k. Because the Orks believe it does
>>44391897
It's my head canon that he wasn't the religious leaders, but he was advisors behind the throne of monarchs trying to stamp out religion. But that's neither here nor there.
To answer your question he incorrectly believed that religion was responsible for empowering the chaos gods and that by stamping out all religion he could starve them
>>44391309
The Emperor's qualifications and justifications can be summed up thusly
>I'm bigger than you and have a bigger army
>I will brain-rape you into agreeing with me if you don't do it of your own free will.
>>44392100
I thought his justification was that he had humanity's best interests at heart. Subjugate this generation so the next thousand generations can survive in a hostile galaxy.
>>44392077
Not that anon but my headcanon is that he made it all up. I mean, unless he really is a divine being, him living long enough to be every ancient religious figure and still be alive tens of thousands of years later is literally impossible.
>>44392281
Unless he's a perpetual. Which is canon last I checked
Honestly, the Inquisition is likely not nearly as fucked as the Ecclesiarchy is. The Inquisition is by and large doing what is necessary, whether they or anyone else likes it, or likes doing it.
The Ecclesiarchy, though.. you could raise largely the same argument, but it'd be a lot more dodgy.
>>44392331
What's the point of keeping him alive on the golden throne if he's immortal? Since is divine can't he just reincarnate.
>>44392281
I'm going with this anon.
Age of Strife warlord with Best Korea propaganda + lots of time.
For him to have been all those ancient people doing all those awesome things that he claims he would have had to have been not retarded. He was retarded.
>>44392405
Nobody knows what will happen when he dies.
Maybe he'll regenerate, or maybe the ravages of time have made it so he'll tear apart and create a second eye of terror and a new chaos god.
>>44392281
>I mean, unless he really is a divine being, him living long enough to be every ancient religious figure and still be alive tens of thousands of years later is literally impossible.
Not if he's a seriously good psyker, created by the combined psychic strength of the elder human race to act as a bulwark against the forces of corruption.
>>44392395
What's necessary about researching Chaos weapons while killing off anyone suspected of bieng influenced of chaos even if it's the most loyal follower and there's no evidence? Seems like hypocrisy
>>44392405
If he dies there won't be the astronomicon light shining in the warp anymore which means noone can't warp travel anymore, and without warp travel the galaxy spamming imperium is fucked!
>>44390687
Fuck them if they do.
>>44392476
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f9oJikx0-I
>galaxy spamming imperium
>galaxy spamming
>spamming
>>44390706
>>44392477
Okay guys how we progress 40k without another sigmar raio no (rouboutte emperor shit!)?
>>44392502
Wtf?
>>44392405
He is keeping the Astronomicon lit and keeping a warp portal in the imperial palace closed. Were he to forsake his duties for the time it would take him to regenerate, the imperium would be thrown into chaos, all ships in warp transit would be lost, and terra would be overrun by demons
>>44390330
Have you ever read The Brothers Karamazov? If so, you should already know.
>>44392517
>*Sigmar fail
>>44392517
Don't progress it. It's fine the way it is. It's supposed to be a dark war-torn future without hope.
>>44392543
Assuming anything survives that they better get used to having no new Astropaths as well.
Also what will happen to the Astropaths? They are Soul Bound to him. Maybe when he dies they all drop dead.
>>44390330
>How fucked...
It's 40k, dude. Shit cannot get more fucked. The only question is whether it's a quick, over-and-done fuck, or a long, grinding hate-fuck of mythical proportions.
>>44390745
Dude, at least post the proper episode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhdYYgro-zE
>>44392469
If it was your job to protect humanity from the denizens of the warp, you'd err to the side of caution too. Did you hear about the planetary governor who hid his psycher daughter from the black ships? One enslaver plague later 3 hives had to be wiped off the map.
>>44392517
I'd be fine with having the emperor be revived and start purging like a motherfucker.
Or having him die, creating anothing Eye of Chaos and causing the Imperium and everything else to get utterly wrecked. Now there would be some Grimdark.
>>44392755
You should check out The Shape of the Nightmare to Come on 1d4chan. I can't into hyperlinks or I would set it up for you
>>44390623
>this much heresy
>this much autism
>>44392801
It might be heresy but anon isn't exactly wrong
>>44390330
I don't see why anyone would necessarily be.
Remember, Emps is a pragmatist first and foremost. After being all "fuck off, god doesn't exist" he realized the best way to save humanity was for them to think he was a god so he made that happen. His endgame is humanity's survival. He would make changes, but I doubt that they'd be these massive purges you people are thinking of because for the most part, the system is working. Anything major he does could fuck that up.
>>44392901
He did it before
>>44392954
yes he did, but under entirely different circumstances
>>44390330
He's probably not touching the Ecclesiarchy, it's far too ingrained into his emipre and serves a purpose.
>>44391897
>>44391846
My feeling is that the immortal superbeing that has been a shadowy leader of humanity through the millennia is Malcador. The being we know as the Emperor was created in a lab by Malcador.
Possibly he was created with implanted memories drawn from Malcador's life, or maybe he knowingly appropriated part of his "father's" life story as propaganda. Malcador may even have created a being he believed to be superior to himself and served him sincerely. Or maybe as always he was running things from the shadows.
The big buff brilliant superhuman psyker who openly and arrogantly declared himself ruler of humanity, and then immediately went on a galaxy-spanning war of conquest, doesn't sound at all like someone who'd been subtly guiding human development for millennia. A man who'd served in countless governments and ruled kingdoms and empires would know better than to vest total military authority in anyone, no matter how trusted. Could a man with such gifts and such experience actually believe he could outlaw spirituality by fiat, and think humanity would just go along with it? The Emperor of the Grand Crusade doesn't sound anything like his alleged backstory.
But he does sound an awful lot like many of the genetically engineered techno-barbarian warlords that were running around on Earth in the last days of the Age of Strife. A guy like that could easily make rookie mistakes like you see leading up to the Horus Heresy.
So, yeah, I think you're onto something. Those contradictions seem to me like signs that his backstory was grafted onto his own rule to justify it morally.
>>44392421
Very succinctly put. I absolutely agree.
It's not enough to have raw power on your side. An empire has to be held together by some kind of moral/philosophical ideal, and by some argument for legitimacy.
So with Best Korea, you have power (military and intelligence services), moral/philosophical ideal (communism), and argument for why THIS guy gets to make the rules (legitimacy fueled by propaganda of the Kims as superhuman). The Imperium has the first two, obviously, so if you're living in 30k why THIS emperor? Why should I bow to him?
Let's say you were planning on making shit up. In that case, you want some origin story that makes the case in ethnic, historical, and theological terms to all worlds, regardless of how long they were cut off from humanity as a whole. That means that the Emperor has to have been born on Earth pre-spaceflight. Once you have that, then all human cultures, religions, and ethnicities stem from that. In other words, if you were cooking up a fake story, it would look pretty much exactly like the official one.
In one fell stroke, the Emperor goes from a bioengineered freak with creepy warp powers and who rules by brute force, into the apotheosis of what it means to be human itself.
>>44390330
>emporer being declared a heretic
>can't spell emperor
>thinks the God Emperor a heretic
>thinks his servants would turn on him
Disregarded and reported.
Illiterate heretics BTFO. Praise the Emperor.
>>44393077
>The being we know as the Emperor was created in a lab by Malcador.
This... is the best head canon I've ever read.
>>44390330
THe Emperor would probably be quite pleased with the inquisition. The man's imperium was never a nice place after all.
>>44391897
>That's only more confusing. I get that the emporer is the incarnation of every Relgion leader in history, so why does he hate Relgion when he is religion embodied.
>>44392077
>It's my head canon that he wasn't the religious leaders, but he was advisors behind the throne of monarchs trying to stamp out religion.
The way I kinda saw it was that his theories about religion didn't come around until later; he existed for tens of thousands of years, the Emperor probably had different thoughts on things come and go based on his experiences and experiments. He might've posed as a major religious figure two or thee dozen times to try and unite humanity that way, but it didn't quite work how he expected.
He probably even did it just to see what would happen, or maybe to push towards a certain goal that would help in centuries down the line.
>>44393339
I won't take credit for something that's been on /tg/ before, but thanks. :)
>>44390623
>human decency
>on 40k
Anon confirmed for being heretic and dumb.
>>44391309
I think most of the strongest human Psykers are completely uninvolved in war. At a certain point, you technically have a blanket kill order, and you're technically a beacon for chaos forces. But you also tear Titans in half with a flick of the wrist and conjure daemons to boss around. So it's sort of might makes right, except none of them really do anything important, because they don't really care.
>>44393959
I always thought he could see the future and was guiding humanity on a very narrow road to survival, but I like the idea that his opinions could change over time
>>44393979
It has? Any chance it made it to the wiki? Or would I have to dig through the archive if I wanted to read it?
>>44392831
anon has never exactly had sex, either
>>44393232
>communism
You disgusting dog. Only Korea is guided by the unique philosophy of Juche as developed by our Eternal Leader Kim Il Sung. All references to Communism have long since been removed, and the mere suggestion that such a glorious nation would be ruled by such an outdated ideology is offensive and evil.
>>44394359
Might have died with moe archive. :(
Let's just credit /tg/ as a community. If you want to copypaste to 1d4chan, then go right ahead.
>>44390700
He helped to found the Grey Knights and did a lot to preserve their secrecy. I think he'd approve of keeping them secret because doing so means keeping the populace ignorant of Chaos.
If you don't believe me, ask yourself how many primarchs were told about Chaos.you pleb
>>44393077
>>44393232
OK, so now for what would happen if Emps wakes up. Let's assume for sake of argument that his personality and sanity are intact.
The Emperor may not be the being he purports to be, and may have made a small number of pretty basic mistakes, but he's no idiot. His first task is to take the reins of the empire. This has everything to do with power politics, and virtually nothing to do with ideology.
So what I'd do first off is congratulate the high lords of terra for their adept stewardship these past ten thousand years. That's regardless of how I actually feel about their rule. Anyone who openly resists of course will be buried, and that's a great opportunity to make an example out of those who defy me, PLUS a great chance to clean house. I'll have to make an example of someone eventually, of course.
The Inquisition is an imperfect instrument, of course, because control is so decentralized. But it's got virtues that make this worth it. First, it's already immensely powerful and widely feared. Second, its agents are competent, not terribly locked up in bureaucracy, and small in number. I would immediately issue one order: no further appointment of Inquisitors without my personal approval. Eventually, the plan is to replace the current Inquisitors with my personal appointees, but of course I won't tell them that.
>>44395644
I should mention that I'm basing these tactics on the early Soviet Union (from the Revolution through Lenin and then into Stalin's era).
When the revolution happened, Lenin's Bolsheviks weren't the most popular, numerous, or even the most powerful of the revolutionary groups. He used the war against the White Russians to justify building his personal power base, and then let his rivals wear theirs down actually fighting them. He embraced process and the law with pedantic exactitude... and used it to eliminate his rival organizations. One by one the other communist groups were destroyed, until the Bolsheviks had the majority. At which point they immediately abandoned their own rules to eliminate all opposition.
Lenin did his purges, too, but Stalin was famous for them. The idea is to always have an alternative organization ready to carry the weight of governing while an institution was being purged. PLay up rivalries between them, so one can purge the other, and then the other can get revenge by purging the first one.
So the NKVD purges the GRU. The GRU is rebuilt with new people loyal to stalin, then used to purge the NKVD. Then the NKVD recovers. Then it's used to purge some other agency. The Imperium has plenty of duplication, so this strategy is perfect. Use the Ecclessiarchy to purge the Administratum, rebuilding it as the Emperor prefers. Then, a few years later, the Administratum turns around and is let loose on the Ecclesiarchy.
Of course, the whole time nobody knows who's next or from which direction their doom will come. Within a few decades, nobody is left who wasn't brought on by the Emperor or his cronies. The old guard is eventually almost completely eliminated.
They don't have to be murdered. Deng Xiaoping famously gave comfy retirements to his rivals, at least the ones who hadn't pissed him off. This left his opponents happy to retire rather than die opposing him.
I don't think the Ecclesiarchy is fucked if the Emperor returns.
I'm pretty sure at this point, the Emperor would recognize his own divinity... or at least use the Ecclesiarchy as another tool of control.
>>44391897
Because religion had failed to uplift humanity before and because religion also impowered Chaos. The tradeoffs were not worth it to him.
>>44396193
So I'd take control of the inquisition first, since it's the most power for the least effort. At that point, they're my personal hitmen.
Next, I'd work on the Administratum. They have a ton of power, are monstrously inefficient, but pretty vulnerable to a takeover from within. The inquisition would nose around, find some scandal or defiance, anything I can use as a pretext, and then suddenly the Ecclesiarchy shows up declaring heresy. All I as emperor have to do is let it happen, and then in the aftermath reorganize what's left, and repopulate it with my own people.
Then, once the Administratum is streamlined and firmly under my thumb, a scandal erupts. Heresy! The Ecclesiarchy, waxing fat up to now, suddenly finds itself the target of investigation as well. Further study by the Inquisition and Adeptus Arbites confirms our worst fears: rank heresy at every level of the Ecclesiarchy. Now it's their turn to be purged, reorganized, and repopulated in my image. In the aftermath, doctrinal changes are pushed through, ostensibly to prevent further heresy. In reality, the doctrinal changes were my goal to begin with, but they'd have never gone through with the Old Guard in charge.
Gradually, I'd move outward this way, through each institution in the Imperium. With groups that are exclusive, like the Navigators and Mechanicus, it's necessary to play individual houses/forgeworlds against one another.
This is a century or more. Only once I have the Imperium more or less under control can I even contemplate policy changes that require me to expend power (rather than policies that also expand my power which of course are implemented immediately).
People keep thinking "what can I use my power for" but the reality is that power is a delicate thing that has to be ceasely protected and fostered.
>ITT people try to be way too logical about 40k and come up with increasingly stupid fan theories.
>>44392545
I read that and have no idea how they relate.
>>44395644
You don't think having half of his sons turn traitor and living in agony for 10,000 years might have made him regret his decision? And while the secrecy of the knights was reeeeeally important, I can't see the Emperor condoning the sterilization of 3 worlds and a full scale invasion of Fenris to preserve it. I can't see how it affects their functionality in the slightest
>>44392901
He'd certain purge the anti-technology and knowledge bullshit. Emps was always big on an enlightened humanity, not one of ignorance and fear.
>>44396575
Yeah but my tl;dr of this scenario is that the Emperor is pragmatic enough not to let abstract notions of justice bog down his effort to get a firm hold onto the Empire. He'll manufacture a scandal if it suits him, or cover one up. History is replete with examples of monarchs who have all the legal power in the world but when they issue an order not a damn thing happens.
>>44390962
>We'll when cut through legend and mysticism. How much legitimacy does the Emporer realy have? He was essentially just a an immortal super human before he went on the golden throne.
You go and tell the 10 foot tall guy in golden armor and a flaming sword backed up by an army of super-humans, metric fucktons of battletanks and Titans that he's a fraud and should piss off to whatever backwater planet he came from. I dare you. I double dare you.
>>44393077
This should be subtly retconned in. Just one short story casting doubt on the Emperor's true origins.
There have been mentions of beings, phykers whatever possibly rivalling big E's power level before.
>>44390330
>How fucked is the inquisition if the Emporer is revived?
Not very considering they're continuing His policies (silencing all knowledge of Chaos and destroying those who question His authority)
>>44396697
Yeah but there are a million worlds and he can only be on one at a time. In fact, he's still tied to Terra by the demongate under the golden throne. And if he could travel, he'd be spending months in space for each world he visits.
So sure if he's standing right there, or even sitting in orbit, I'll do exactly what he says. But for the overwhelming majority of the Imperial government, the Emperor reborn is just a memo I get that contradicts The Way Things Have Always Been Done and tells me to commit things that all my life I've been told are heresy.
But hell, if you need an analogy from 40k canon, try the Mechanicus. They already had a pre-existing deity, the Omnessiah, and the Emperor put up with rebranding himself as a deity in that mold so he could get what he wanted. Only now he'd have to do it for the whole Imperium.
>>44393077
>>44393339
>>44396716
I agree, this is probably the best WH40K head canon I have ever read.
>>44396631
>not one of ignorance and fear
Oh right, because "Demons are just xenos" isn't just a convenient lie.
>>44396899
It's an exception to his general policy. An exception that helped ruin him, but an exception nonetheless.
>>44390330
Depending on how grouchy emps is feeling after waking up, he /might/ be able to see that the inquisition was necessary with how everything went to shit.
Ecclesiarchy is straight up fucked, Empy was a turbofedora.
>>44396791
He still has his Space Marines. And in a way, now they would be even better suited for representing him, as they aren't the huge Legions anymore, but smaller Chapters, that can jus send off a company to deal with most problems.
But of course giong full-on military on the Imperial Governors would be a bad idea. So that's where the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy kick in, spreading word of His return, and making sure that everyone keeps being a good imperial citizen.
If I was writing it, I'd have the emperor accept his place as a deity, perhaps reluctantly so. After 10000 years of sitting on a chair I think he'd wise up to the fact that simply denying the existence of chaos was a bad plan that didn't work, and the imperial faith is the only reason humanity has survived in his absence
It really is the only pragmatic choice : to deny his divinity is to invite ruin and civil war and to give the enemies of the imperium a massive propanda advantage (imagine what the chaos or the tau would do if one day the emperor woke up one day and proclaimed he wasn't god)
However embracing his identity as a god would allow him to easily rally humanity, and the corrupt lords of Terra and the other lying shit eaters would have no choice to accept the authoity of the emperor or be labeled heretics and torn apart by those that once served them.
On second thought thought I'd be working for GW, so I'd have to write him as a massive autist who can't into basic decision making
Civil war, h-here we go!
>>44396886
It's a good explanation, but the real reason is just that the writers aren't all knowing super wise emperors themselves, which is why he comes off as a retard, which is also why plenty of the supposedly greatest strategical minds in the history of mankind do plenty of stupid shit. And of course there's the fact that when the basis was laid out the whole setting was still very much tongue-in-cheek.
>>44392476
What if the Emperor's soul (a soul of order) enters the warp (a realm of chaos) after his death and calms the warp forever, or for a short time so that humanity can gain access to the webway?
>>44397096
Isn't the current canon that he has already been in the warp and that's possibly how he got his psychic powers in the first place?
>>44392579
This. 40ks entire theme is 'not progressing'. Everything is stuck, Big-E, technology, ideology, battles, wars, everything.
The only thing that doesn't fit this description are the Tau, but they are not part of my head canon, so who cares.
>>44397118
Part of his mind are in the warp, yes. But not his soul.
>>44397333
>"During this time several perpetuals including Alivia Sureka traveled with the man who would become the Emperor to the planet Molech, where there was a gateway into the realm of Chaos. The Emperor entered the Gateway, and there made a bargain with the Dark Gods and emerged as a supremely powerful psychic being. However for some reason, the Emperor did not keep his end of the bargain to spread Chaos to humanity, and he became the anathema of Chaos. The Emperor was able to clone the energies he was imbued with, giving them to his Primarchs."
>>44397096
Nah, that's not grimdark enough, try this
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Story:The_Shape_Of_The_Nightmare_To_Come_50k_section14
>>44397344
>However for some reason, the Emperor did not keep his end of the bargain to spread Chaos to humanity, and he became the anathema of Chaos.
My blood boiled with rage reading that.
>>44397418
Didn't the kindness of the Emperor come back and decided to use the name Revelation as his name?
>>44390623
Last Church, please go.
>>44397422
Why is that, anon?
>>44397442
Perhaps, I didn't finish reading all the stories yet. I'll have to read the rest one of these days just to see if you're right
>>44393002
I feel like he'd keep them around but obviously repurpose them a bit. Less religious fervor and more just only worrying about Chaos infiltration.
>>44397344
This is Carnac. Don't listen to Carnac, don't speak to Carnac. Carnac is literally made of bullshit and dark pacts with satan.
>>44397344
So not only he is the reeincarnation of all the shamans on earth but also cheater.
What an amazing person the Emperor was.
>>44397608
*a cheater
>>44397541
Because of the the whole deal with Chaos thing. If Emps could get stronk by making a deal with Chaos, what's stopping Chaos Lords from making deals to get as stronk or nearly as stronk? Dangle five sectors, two marine chapters, a dozen IG regiments, and a Craftworld in front of the Gods' faces and watch as you become as powerful as the Emperor. The next thing is that the Chaos Gods made their own greatest enemy and aren't able to touch him. You mean to tell me that the so called most powerful beings in the setting can't even tough this dying corpse? Smells too much like a lie to me.
>>44397344
>emperor bargains for ultimate powers from eldritch beings
>in return, promises to spread chaos to fellow humans, effectively becoming the lynch pin for the downfall of humanity by preaching Chaos like Erebus, but better
>for whatever reason, he sais "im not going to be the downfall of humanity, fuck your couch" pulled a Tzeentch and backstabbed the chaos gods for humanity
sounds perfectly reasonable to me
>>44397629
Sounds strangely familiar...
>>44397629
Well if the story is true, then the big E was already an immortal being and then there's also the fact that no Chaos god would want to give such powers to someone else again, as they could just do the same thing the Emps did
>>44397672
The thing is the Chaos Gods hate the Emperor. They want him dead. They want him to die so they can kill reality. If Chaos has always existed it seems reasonable to me that the Emperor has been waging his never-ending war against the Gods for as long as the Warp existed to me.
>>44397692
Make sure it's someone that loves you too much to betray you like Lorgar and they're golden.
>>44397729
>so they can kill reality
is there anything in the fluff that states this? If anything, they want reality to continue so that murder, orgies, hiv etc. can empower them?
>>44397729
>The thing is the Chaos Gods hate the Emperor. They want him dead. They want him to die so they can kill reality. If Chaos has always existed it seems reasonable to me that the Emperor has been waging his never-ending war against the Gods for as long as the Warp existed to me.
humanity's population had to reach a critical mass before they could actually create the chaos gods.
>>44397729
'Cept, the chaos gods don't want the Emperor dead, they want things exactly as they are now. They want an imperium in the slow decline that it's been in for 10,000 years, while they get steadily stronger feeding on the negative emotions the imperium produces wholesale
>>44397806
Here is one example.
>>44397853
Khaine is made out of Khorne and Slaanesh's spheres of influence.
>>44397889
Nothing in that pic says they want to end reality, quite to the contrary actually.
>>44397886
Explain the 13th Black Crusade.
>>44397902
>Should these otherworldly fiends conquer the material universe, reality itself will be replaced by a hellscape forever more.
>>44397939
Sounds like metaphor to me.
>>44397939
Yes the galaxy would be overrun by daemons, rifts between the warp and reality would open all around etc. but that's not the same as ending reality. If there are no living beings, there is no chaos.
>>44397907
Chaos undivided does not have the same priorities as the individual chaos gods. It wasn't to cause death, destruction and get shit done. That being said, the 13th crusade isn't going to accomplish any more or less than the first twelve, the gods will fall into infighting and power grabbing before it can
>>44397974
>>44398017
I really don't care if that white blank bothers people. Brought to you by the Black Legion supplement.
>>44398021
>>44398059
All your posts clearly claim that the galaxy isn't going anywhere, just that Chaos will try to take control of it.
>>44398090
I realized a mistake I made. When I say the Chaos Gods want to destroy reality, it's not that they 100% want to, it's really that they have no choice in the matter. They lack self control. They'll run everything in the ground eventually.
>>44398021
Sorry, wasn't was supposed to be wants
>>44397907
The Gods are intentionally keeping Failbaddon from accomplishing as much of his goals as possible behind his back because his "failed" Black Crusades still bring them power and they know if Abbadon were ever to actually reach Terra he would backstab the Chaos gods and crown himself Emperor.
>>44398225
But that would imply Abaddon's chance of successfully betraying the Chaos Gods doesn't have the chance an ice cube has in Hell.
>>44392476
Warp travel is still possible, it just takes much longer and is more risky. Warp jumps calculated without a Navigator take you about 4 light years per jump, with each jump requiring one to two days in the warp. This means traveling across a standard Imperial sector would only take a few months, however traveling across a Segmentum would take decades.
Absent another navigational beacon being created the Imperium as we know it would collapse, however individual sectors are largely self sufficient and would still be able to function.
Humanity would simply separate into a series of pocket Empires operating on the same scale as the Tau. The forces of Chaos would be an exception to this, as their bargains with the powers of the warp would allow for safe and rapid warp travel. Also, the Hadex Anomaly is set to replace the Astronomicon as a nav beacon in the Ultima Segmentum.
>>44398409
(not the guy you're replying to) In theory you're right, however, without a navigator there would be no way to detect warp storms etc. and with the number of jumps you'd be making chances are you'd either get lost in the warp for good, or emerge a thousand years late.
Watch Emps comes back, sides with Chaos and a new Heresy begins led by Ultramar.
>>44398449
Navigators don't go away just because the Astronomicon got turned off. The predate the Astronomicon and were genetically engineered during the DAOT for precisely the reasons you state. Also, the risks inherent in calculated jumps are what constrains them to a few light years in length. As I said, warp travel would take longer and be riskier, but it is still possible.
>>44392543
ok, all that taken into effect though, would it be worth it? if he regenerated, I think losing all those ships currently in the warp and terra being overrun by daemons might be an ok price to pay to have the emperor live and walk among the imperium again? if he didn't regenerate again, the imperium is fucked, but in its current state, it is already slowly dying. So it might be a worthwhile gamble.
>>44398766
I think the real issue is that Emps just can't regenerate or reincarnate anymore. He was dying when they put him n the golden throne, because defeating Horus took everything he had. He's draining a thousand psyckers a day just to keep the lights on and the rift sealed because he has got nothing left in himself.
>>44398766
The Emperor is a powerful psycher, a fine warlord, and a gifted scientist, but I'm not sure he's enough to salvage the imperium as it stands. What the imperium needs is a clone of malcador and a dark age STC.
The real question isn't whether he'd destroy the Ecclesiarchy, because he absolutely would at the first opportunity. Any galaxy-wide religion is detrimental to his goal of wiping out Chaos and returning the Warp to it's pre-War In Heaven state.
It's really whether he'd try to commit genocide against his own species if he woke up.
Humanity is, unintentionally, the greatest proponent of Chaos there is, and without that support the Gods would suffocate.
Conquering the Galaxy was just his preferred method of eliminating the Gods, and had the advantage of ensuring that nothing rose in the vacuum to feed them or create something worse.
At this point, though, there's no time to completely overhaul the Imperium and fend off all the Apocalypses at once.
The Emperor is a smart guy so he probably has something prepared, maybe he can switch the Golden Throne from suck to blow, and he can into genetics so he could probably reintroduce the species through cloning if he wanted.
>>44398879
>I think the real issue is that Emps just can't regenerate or reincarnate anymore
Is it canon that he's on his 12th regeneration?
The Imperium could've revived the Emperor thousands of years ago, if they wanted to. But there are way too many vested interests that benefit more from having a half dead corpse on the throne, than having a living, breathing leader.
>>44390857
>>44390962
>>44390743
>>44390811
Why does practically everyone ignore two simple facts; He personally gave approval to the six heads of the, then, Brides of the Emperor. And two, the reason there hasn't been another VandireWho was originally the High Lord of the Admistratum anywayis because the Sisters are the internal police of the Ecclesiarchy, along with all their other duties.
The moment a single priest even utters the words Emperor and False in the same sentence, they are getting publicly dragged away in chains with the Sisters making it known to all the Emperor has come back.
>>44391309
Uriah Olathaire
>>44399598
> hasn't been another Vandire
Except for Bucharis, Basillius, Xaphan and whatever cardinal or ecclesiarch happens to be going rogue this week, it almost never happens. And when it does it's not like anything bad comes of it
can someone explain the appeal of a human race in a setting where zombie space robots are a thing
>>44400095
Well...if you join the imperial guard they give you a rifle that shoots lasers! Plus the Emperor loves you, that's something
>>44390623
That guy on the left kinda looks like Radar
>>44392901
>He would make changes, but I doubt that they'd be these massive purges you people are thinking of because for the most part, the system is working.
>the system is working.
>THE IMPERIUM SYSTEM IS WORKING
What.
>>44399598
>>44399957
Members of the priesthood go bad all the time because everyone, including GW themselves, have forgotten about the Sisters.
So they're pretty much a null argument by this stage.
>>44399194EMPEROR WHO?
>>44392476
If he dies, then every woman, child, and man in the galaxy will become a portal to Chaos, drowning the galaxy in warpstuff.
Space, time, and life in the galaxy will be destroyed.
>>44392405
He is not immortal. In fact, he is dying. His dying spirit needs to be sustained by the souls of psykers
>>44392331
If he is a Perpetual, then what happened to his healing factor.
>>44401374
So I take it you bow to the Emporer.or Bend over for him Lel gay joke
Seriously though that is some heavy shit.
>>44399704
Wow. Just read up on him. He had to be the only "good" person in the entire universe.
The emperor is a douche.
>>44400291
From MASH?
I was thinking the same thing.
>>44391715
>Which is just fucking swell if your an Ork.
Yes. Yes, it is.
>>44397633
And he didn't thin that they would notice? These beings that exist outside of time one of which is made of backstabbing.
>>44399143
>The Emperor is a smart guy
Except that at every opportunity to demonstrate this he appears pants on head retarded.
Also organised religion does not feed Chaos.
>>44393339
>>44393077
Best headcanon.
I might now actually start liking the WH40K franchise.
>>44395784
Though i disagree with this.
The empire has gone so far off the path laid out even by the numbnuts emperor, that as OP mentioned the possibility of hium being declared a heretic is there.
The inquisition/techpriests would attack him, possibly physically and mentally cripple him and, begin an "eternal search" for the "true emperor" who must have been switched with that "heretic" they crippled.
And that's it.
The empire is forever in the hands of the techpriests and the inquisition and no one can ever discover the extent of their heresy because the last thing anchoring the world to morality would be called non existant, and the emperor would no longer be the emperor just an ordinary brain in a jar.
>>44390330
Malcador sanctioned the proto inquisition after horus face-turn-heel thing. Witch hunters were a thing during the crusade after all.
>>44398879
yeah but see that's the thing
That's a massive investment.
if they pooled the psyker resources they had instead of just blindly throwing them at the golden throne in the biggest act of heresy in history i'm sure they might figure out a way to light the astronomicon without the emperor.
Maybe make a new deal with the chaos gods or imprison another eternal being in the emperors stead.
>>44390623
The thing is, though, that he has every right to be like that.
He knows for a fact that what he did/is doing is for the best of humanity. He's like Doom in that respect.
Also,
What if the emperor never actually betrayed the chaos gods he got his powers from?
He went from silent guardian and watchful protector to jingoistic blinded cunt after he became the god emperor proper, in effect costing more human lives through his actions than any servant of chaos has ever claimed on their own.
I mean if senseless slaughter of innocents feeds the forces of the warp, what would you call 1000 innocents being sacrificed every day?
The emperor pulled the greatest trick of the Eldrich Gods by convincing the world that he was on their side.
>>44403661
>He's like Doom in that respect.
He is a deluded, egoistical tyrant with equally delusional fanboys?
>>44403703
>Deluded
Doom (and Big E) are tyrants, but they are not deluded. They know (and the universe acknowledges) that their purpose is just, even if their methods are not.
>>44403661
Intentionally breeding resentment in Logar, Magnus, Pertty and Angron was definitely in humanities best interests.
Giving a barely literature axe drager, schizophrenia Batman and a brain damaged angry man legions of super soldiers with minimal oversight was in humanities best interest.
Banning religion whilst stirring up mass fanaticism and oppression thus creating the perfect spawning ground for Chaos Cults was in humanities best interests.
Making deals with Chaos for your own power and then double crossing the gods and thinking you can get away with it was in humanities best interest.
I'm sorry but I'm not seeing it. All I'm seeing is a stupid cunt with delusions of greatness.
>>44403742
>They know (and the universe acknowledges) that their purpose is just, even if their methods are not.
No, bad writing "acknowledges" that their purpose is just. And considering that the canon of the Marvel universe is equally self-contradictory as that of the WH40K, I don't see any reason to not believe that either of them is anything else but an insane tyrant.
>>44403761
>Making deals with Chaos for your own power and then double crossing the gods
Read everything you wrote before.
And now think again.
Did he really?
>>44403773
Yes.
He didn't need to be a giant golden pretty boy to unify Terra and found the Imperium. That was all just for his benefit.
>>44403761
You can't blame the father for the misdeeds of the son, especially if said son intentionally does something the father explicitly told his sons not to do, like Lorgar.
>>44403789
>>44403773
>and then double crossing the gods
... Did he really?
>>44403761
Do you think he actually wanted any of that to happen, though? Everything does not always go according to plan.
Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
>>44403773
>Did he really?
Yes.
The Emperor went to Molech alongside Alivia Sureka. They uncovered the "Gateway to the Gods" hidden in the planet. It's a path to the Realm of Chaos which leads to the Ebon Road. A road that leads the traveler to the Chaos Gods The Emperor entered it and met the Chaos Gods.
A bargain was struck. Power and knowledge were granted.
Alivia Sureka guided out the Realm of Chaos and she felt the taint of Chaos on in his mind, the laughter of the Chaos Gods was ringing in his mind.
>>44403811
guided him out*
>>44403811
>and then double crossing the gods
Did he really?
>>44403824
Yes.
Or are you implying that he still on the Chaos Gods payroll?
>>44403833
Well read again all the things that happened.
>he goes from silent guardian and watchful protector to jingoistic military general in a 10 foot golden mecha
>founds an empire with zero protections against a takeover by the institutions
>launches humanity into permanent war effectively costing more lives with this than any chaos servant ever claimed
>his empire and oppressive regime is the perfect breeding ground for chaos worship
>even in his death costs a 1000 innocents a day
I say he fulfilled his side of the bargain exceptionally.
>>44403863
You might got a point.
>>44403863
>>44403878
This is even more logical if the god emperor was actually a different person than the protector of mankind.
Because a genetically engineered being could be corrupted by chaos, while i doubt that the true protector would've truck a deal with those gods in the first place.
>>44403791
Logar was the theocratic head of a planetary religion. He was a devout follower and had been faithful for several mundane lifetimes. And the Emperor's method of explaining why you should stop doing a thing is to yell "don't" in increasing volume. Sometimes, on really, really, rare occasions if you have earned his approval through trial and tribulation he might grant you the dignity of a "because I say so".
Same as with Magnus. All he ever seemed to get was being yelled "Stop it" like some petulant child.
Angron would have been 100% loyal to the Emperor if the big E had either beamed his friend up or beamed reinforcements down. YOu can go on and on about "but they were really angry dudes and therefore would have fallen to Khorne" all you want it doesn't change the fact that they would have been less of a problem than the Thunder Warriors. And as regular humans with medical complications the problem would have been self correcting in at most 40 or 50 years.
The Emperor spent decades and centuries seemingly intentionally antagonizing half his sons. Then acts surprised when they turn on him.
>>44403903
And we know that the Emperor was the True and Honest protector of mankind because he told us so.
>>44403925
Well yes, but it sortof makes sense that someone really was that protector.
As someone above claimed:
>>44393077
>>44403925
>>44403933
So yes, if the emperor is actually just a genetically engineered being and not actually the protector of mankind, it's obvious that he could have fallen to the chaos gods, deliberately causing all that followed completely against his "programming".
And that essentially isn't contradicting any lore, and sufficiently explains everything.
>>44392405
There's a lot of theories on that matter
>>44392469
I agree and have always found the whole people don't know about chaos thing the worst part of the setting
>>44403906
What if the Emperor knew the heresy was necessary in some way and thus needed to happen?
Or maybe he took a gamble and attempted to defeat chaos there and then, and so engineered the heresy to get the gods to choose a champion. The gods barely had time to flee Horus when Big E erased him from existence, after all.
>>44404033
Absolutely fucking genius.
I could wait till I'm ready, build up my strength, stack the deck in my favor, gain allies, find lost wisdom and such or
Wait for it guys
Or I could
You are going to fucking love this
Or I could force them to act now when I'm not ready and then they can kick my ass
I am a fucking genius!
>>44390355
He wiped out all three major branches of his previous groups of followers because they screwed up with his image one too many times, and he killed the group that wiped /them/ out afterward when it turned out they would be inadequate for long-term use.
Emprah is not forgiving in that regard.
>>44404059
>Spend time to prepare against beings that become exponentially more powerful as time passes due to their nature
>>44403863
I can see that.
It's sort of what they did to Logar.
Logar wanted an Imperium with the Emperor deified.
And he has got it. The gods gave him what he wanted.
And made what he wanted utterly worthless and wretched to him.
Logar won and he hates it.
>>44390811
Assuming the notion that Emps was Jesus is canon, that's /exactly/ what the believers did in the face of him to the very end, and they were rather reasonable compared to the rabid Ecclesiarchy.
After spending 10k years on the golden throne, the first thing the emperor would do is scream for a solid decade, shit, piss, have a wank, then go on an insane genocidal purge of humanity.
Because he spent his life trying to end religion, and as soon as hes gone,bam!, hes a god.
Becuase fuck.
>>44404336
In "Talon of Horus", an manifestation of the Emperor called the Solar Priest. who is the avatar of the Astronomican, came to Iskander Khayon and tried to bar his passage. He was trying to stop him and his pals from reaching Abaddon and joining up with him.
He tried reasoning with them by telling them that this dark path would only lead to pain and suffering for mankind. This time it's just a warning, next time there will be fire and blood. Khayon dispatched the Solar Priests violently with the help of his friends. The Solar Priest took it like a martyr.
Iskandor Khayon comments that it's not the last time he would would encounter a manifestation of the Emperor. It's implied that he and Abaddon will fight aspects of the Emperor in the Eye in the upcoming Black Legion novel.
I think this shows that the Emperor fears Abaddon.
>>44404375
Not really? I'm not getting 'Fear' from that.
>>44404391
I do.
He is attempting to stop Abaddon. What has he did anything that personal towards any threat in the setting?
>>44404409
He could also be trying for redemption or a last call for Abbadon to turn away from his path due to Mercy.
Him taking it like a martyr makes it feel a lot more like that.
>>44391897
Because when he was first written there wasn't this fundamentalist fedora tipping around
Rogue trader had him as being openly a God and the crusade bringing his worship ala Dune
It's only when first the heresy ccg and then the novels came out that we got the fedora tipping
>>44404375
>>44404391
I think the Emperor is far beyond anything else in the galaxy. He has demonstrated the ability to destroy matter and metaphysical properties such as a soul, stop time for individuals while the rest of the universe keeps going and a degree of omnipresence.
I think he tried to stop Iskandar and Abaddon purely out of love for mankind, not fear.
>>44404412
>Him taking it like a martyr makes it feel a lot more like that.
Actually, Iskandor Khayon called out the Solar Priest on that. He said that the Solar Priest was acting peacefully because he was powerless to harm them because they just escaped the Fire region (The place where Astronomican cuts in the Eye).
As much as 'If Emperor had a Text to Speech Device' is memey shit, it is fairly accurate in this regard. The Emperor would have to begin small from his verifiable power base - the guards of the Golden Throne and the Sisterhood. The sitting Highlords would almost certainly oppose and suppress him if they got wind of him, and playing it wrong would result in a possible civil war and collapse within the Imperium.
>>44392421
Except the novels show he was there at Nineveh and so on - he is immortal though whether he is a grammaticus rebirthing type or oll just long lived we don't know
>>44404419
You know, I'd really like to see a book set in 'Modern' 40k with an avatar of the Emperor.
Not a glorious champion of the Imperial Truth or a triumphant god but a tired old man who knows he's messed up in the past. Talking about mistakes of the past haunting the future.
It could be a good usage of an ambiguous 'Was that the emperor or just an old priest?' Maybe in a SOB book to have a counterargument for the Emperor being inspiring and important to the Imperium.
>>44404419
Fedora Tipping preceeds the Heresy Novels, remember Lorgar.
The difference is, originally, The Emperor oppossed religion because he wanted to spread science and understanding and logic to the stars, as he felt that belief and unrestrained emotion was what propagated Chaos. At it's fundamental level the Imperium was meant to be a bastion of civilization, reason, and progress. Which is why it's fall into a hollow shell filled with superstition and ignorance is so ironic and so egregious.
>>44404421
I think the Inquisition War novels were retconned, so all the fuckery the Emperor performed to speak to Jaq are of dubious canon status.
Posting the scene with the "Solar Priest".
>>44404479
>>44404482
>>44404487
>>44404451
Yeah, but the Dunecannon RT-era stuff >>44404419 is talking about probably precedes even Lorgar.
Dunecannon >> Old Cannon > * >> HHcannon
>>44392797
>The Shape of the Nightmare to Come
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Story:The_Shape_Of_The_Nightmare_To_Come_50k
My gogle-fu is strong!
>>44404487
"You are a threat to the Singer"
"The fate you seek to engineer cannot be allowed to come to pass"
"These instruments of destruction? The damnation of Mankind?"
>"Your are the death of empires"
>You will be the end of the Imperium. Is this what you wanted for yourselves when you first looked up to the night sky as children on your home worlds?"
The Imperium confirmed finished!
I wonder what would have happened if Iskandor managed to bind the Solar Priest.
>>44404629
He'd have a pet shard of the Emperor which he'd probably be unable to take into the Eye because either the Warp would react badly to it or daemons and Chaos SMs would react badly to it.
>>44405434
Dude, the whole thing was happening within the Eye of Terror.
>>44404613
Cheers, thanks
>>44405434
so it would be like a pokemon?
>>44403548
>The empire has gone so far off the path laid out even by the numbnuts emperor, that as OP mentioned the possibility of hium being declared a heretic is there.
This is absolutely a possibility. Hence why I think the Emperor will flatter their egos to buy just enough time to ensure his personal safety.
Remember, he's personally powerful enough (plus his personal guard) that anybody who opposes him directly will probably die even if they take him with them. The High Lords of Terra are an ambitious, self-centered, and cagey lot. They may prefer that the Emperor never wakes up and upsets their apple carts, but if he's standing there before them, none of them are going to want to be the first to challenge him.
That's why I think initially he'll play for time while accumulating enough power to begin supplanting the high lords. The trick is to lull them into just enough complacency to buy enough time for him to win the confrontation when it happens. Or divide and conquer. Or both.
Also remember, if the Emperor truly dies, then the Astronomican goes out. Which means that immediately the High Lords of Terra lose almost their entire power base, or at least it becomes inaccessible. That's about as bad for their power as having the Emperor suddenly reigning above them.
>>44399598
>sisters are secret police
>not the arbites
>>44409129
The sisters, in the old fluff at least, used to enforce the Ecclesiastical Law. They also policed the Space Marines and fucked their shit up if they got out of line. Or looked like they were going to get out of line. Or weren't pious enough. Or they hadn't fucked someones shit up lately and were feeling bored.
Arbiters enforced Imperial Law and generally stuck to making sure the more secular bits of the Imperium were in line. They were usually less brutal than the sisters.
>>44401374
>If he is a Perpetual, then what happened to his healing factor.
horus rekt him really bad and his healing factor isn't enough? perhaps he's the kind of perpetual that reincarnates rather than regenerates, which would make sense.
>>44409243
Some chaos-tainted wounds are resistant to regeneration.
Or maybe so much of his power is tied up keeping the demons out and powering the astronomican, plus the effects of his wounds and the constant effort of will to resist death, that he doesn't have enough power to spare to heal himself.
>>44409243
Maybe the wounds cut his very soul a mortal wound. This life will be his last.
>>44409129
>>44409190
I think this is your answer: >>44396512
Why not have both? Plus the inquisition? You use the Sisters to purge the Arbites, then a few years later the Arbites to purge the Sisters.
If either one were the sole or most important police force, then the Emperor couldn't clean house without disrupting his own hold over the Imperium. Because both do essentially similar jobs, then he can crack down on one while the other one carries the weight.
That also means that no leader of either organization can ever usurp the Emperor because the Emperor can always play two competing and duplicative organizations against each other.
