How do Chaos Marines replenish their losses? Their geneseed stocks (including the ones current Chaos Marines are using and could be harvested from their dead) must've warped beyond usability and their Primarches are in no position to provide some, even if they wanted to.
Fabius Bile, Daemonculaba, royalist turncoats
>>44384967
Thread
Writers don't give a shit, and so everyone has infinity troops.
>>44384938
Cloning and renegades mostly
>>44384967
Apart from these answers, I've always maintained the headcannon that 5-10% of all recruited space marine go on to become traitors/renegades at some point in their lives. Seems thematically accurate considering just how tainting Chaos is.
>>44385378
It's closer to 1-2%
A certain number of Chaos marines are also created the old fashioned way, though really only some of the Legions or a few particularly powerful warbands might have the resources necessary to do so.
For instance the Black Legion, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers all still have the necessary organization and resources to do so.
>>44384938
Read "Storm of Iron" by Graham McNeill, that's how pretty much.
In it the Iron Warriors lay siege to a Geneseed repository and clean it out.
The follow-up in Black Sun Dead Sky shows you how they make Marines out of that stolen Geneseed (not very efficiently, but it works).
>>44384967
Rubric can be remade for Thousand Sons too.
maybe a renegade chapter still has the facilities and tools to harvest gene seed and implant it within people like the loyalist chapters do?
when a chapter turns rogue, why would their ability to create new space marines just suddenly stop?
>>44384938
slaanesh
Chaos Space Marines aren't clones. What CSM do is farm the shit out of geneseed, using scrubs they pick up as bags of meat to grow the crop in and harvest it when it matures. Not even Chaos uses clones- virtually all of humanity views clones as unholy abominations. Including Chaos.
>>44384967
Stolen gene-seed is a personal favorite of mine.
I mean just think about how many Black Legionaries are probably Guiliman's sons and they don't even know it.
>>44386669
And they wouldn't care. The Black Legion is a mongrel organization.
>It took the Emperor a bargain with the Chaos Gods and thousands of years to create the Primarchs and the geneseed
>Fabius Bile unlocked the secrets of the geneseed and the Primarch project in less than a century
>He was able to create a perfect clone of Horus
>He was going to create clones of the rest but then.....
Abaddon happened.
Still Fabius Bile is based.
>>44386686
That's what's so great about the Black Legion, that everyone flocks to their banner. They're a cross section not just of chaos but of loyalists, there's probably one from every founding legion that now wears the black
>>44384938
I figure a lot of them are just humans, so heavily mutated that they're more like astartes.
Then they just get a suit of power armour, and they're indistinguishable from the outside.
Of course, cut them open, and they'll all be different, some with bones of iron, some with brass muscles, or bleeding acid.
>>44385437
Even 1-2% is a lot when you consider how the warp acts as a basically a freezer for them. I also imagine chaos marines are harder to perma-kill.
>>44384938
well. mostly, they do the same thing that loyalists do by using gene seed. Ontop of that, they will use geneseed from fabius bile or loyalists they've killed. They also take in turn coats and the occassional weird science project.
>>44386959
they actually are harder to kill due to a lot of factors. combat experience, equipment, using meat shields, and mutations
>>44386794
there are mutated people like that, but they don't get astartes power armor. there is a lot of different types of genetically augmented person, both on purpose and accident in 40k. Such as gland warriors or techno barbarians from Terra.
For instance, the chapter serfs are often times enhanced past that of an inquisitorial storm trooper.
>>44384938
Various ways.
Chaos Marines still can extract geneseed from the corpses of their dead brethren as well as grab some loyalist geneseed via raids.
Also Fabius Bile utilizes cloning, the Iron Warriors use the Daemonculaba (sick bastards), or in the case of 1K Sons it's Magnus resurrecting dead Sorcerers (Death Guard are tricky here since nobody knows how these guys get new marines, but it's either Nurgle Necromancy or their geneseed is actually not that rotten enough to allow for growing new organs for recruits).
>>44384938
My personal conviction was always that the traitor legions don't even suffer that many losses because they let cults and renegade regiments do all the work, focusing on easy targets they can stomp with the least effort.
Apart from world eaters, maybe, I also believe the traitor legions to still have a sense of logistics and therefore maintain an apothecarium where they clean up their geneseed to an agreeable state to be utilised.
>>44386686
That's why I like them. They are a legion powered by hate.
Ovee the past ten millenia the original astartes are veteran as fuck, combined with warp fuckery means they are alot more harder to kill than average astartes, and now most of them arent really frontline soldiers but lead their own warbands of mutants, cultists and demons.
And because tzeentch.
>>44385437
>spewing numbers out of ones ass with no factual basis in a manner to correct someone. wut
>>44386317
>Not even Chaos uses clones- virtually all of humanity views clones as unholy abominations. Including Chaos.
Do clones in 40k even have souls?
>>44387732
In Talon of Horus, I believe they say that the clone of Horus indeed seems lacking of a soul. It is empty.
>>44387735
I figured as much. Having no soul is probably one of the few ways you can offend the Chaos Gods.
>>44387080
>take ordinary common or garden chaos space marine
>have a sorcerer that has been given the power of nurgle's rot
>rot that fucker until he begs for nurgle's deliverance
You know have either a dead marine or a new plague marine.
>>44387714
>Ovee the past ten millenia the original astartes are veteran as fuck
Yet they still never received the training that loyalist marine chapters get now. It's like being a successful infantryman today, you may be a veteran of many battles but special forces are going to give you a run for your money.
>>44384938
I always figured given that the space marine legions used to be alot bigger and some of the lore about the warp that basically there is a huge reserve of lost chaos space marines in the fringes of the universe.
It's been mentioned that CSM can frequently spend centuries or millenia trapped, lost or journeying the warp so I figure that for all that is seen at the current time period is but a fraction of the total number cycling in and out of activity.
Hypothetically though, that means that the numbers of CSM is constantly diminishing (and gives me a interesting idea for a story or rpg setting of long war veterans who are literally the last few of their kind) and eventually the numbers will stabilise much lower based on the few that they can fabricate and the accumulated renegades.
That being said, it's likely that some warbands, those focused on raiding isolated settlements rather than direct combat, will persist for a substantial amount of time.
>>44384938
The Chaos Gods have a tendency to bring back dead warriors
>>44388012
Generally only the hero ones, which is interesting; it would lead to all CSM being hero-tier and possibly mostly consisting of lost and the damned style armies of a few Chosen and Warlords backed up by loads of mutants and cultists rather than a phalanx of legionaries.
I think I would prefer that.
>>44386227
Because unless they are fleet based they can't cram their apothercarium and all the necessary equipment into the warp before big I nukes their keep from orbit. The Crimson slaughter had barely been branded before their homeworld was glassed.
But your point still stands, when the Alpha Legion turned that one chapter with meme words I can imagine they temporarily renewed their means of conventional geneseed growing.
>>44384967
>royalist
>>44384938
Some Legions can make new marines just fine. For example the Night Lord warband under Talos did that.
>>44387814
Yeh but 10k years of constant warfare is gonna keep them sharp.
And dont forget warp powers.
>>44388392
It isn't really 10k years though. Talos from Night Lords mentioned that for him, it was only 200 years.
>>44388687
Add another 200 odd from the great crusade, and again the warp powers.
Also they need as many as the setting requires.
>>44386725
>it took humanity thousands of years to develop cell phones
>starving children in China churn out hundreds a day
>thanks based china kids
Fabius Bile also studied under the Dark Eldar, Dark Eldar have methods of bringing the dead back to life. I'm sure Fabius probably uses some of those techniques for the Chaos Lords and their favored Chosen he works for
>>44387732
They're very unlucky and naturally die quickly due to misfortune because apparently it pisses of the universe when their two of the exact same soul running around. They do however possess just as much soul. Fabius clone of Horus and was just as strong and retained his memories but did not have the blessing of the Chaos gods and was quickly found out.
>>44389483
The Dark Eldar can bring back the dead from life because they take a part of their body and soul before sending them off to service. They basically use this fragment to rebuild the soul and body by feeding it emotions of pain and suffering. Chaos Space Marines don't work in the same manner.
>>44389425
Nah. Bad analogy.
It's more like this.
>Chinese kid looks at phone and studies it
>understand how it works and gets to know all its components all on his own
>Replicas the phone and mass produces it
>>44389425
Why dont they replace forge worlds with little chineses then?
Maybe thats the AdMechs secret to their vast production scale
>>44387814
CSM lore used to be full of references to how modern day Space Marines were wimps compared to the legions, and emphasize that nearly all chaos marines were veterans even compared to other space marines.
There was also a snippet of lore about how Fabius Bile, one of the dudes who can still make space marines, was striving to make the failure rate in the aspirants HIGHER rather than lower, so that it was even more difficult to survive the process for his subjects than for the loyalist marines, because he wanted noone except the toughest or luckiest to make it.
>>44389670
>understand how it works
Bile doesn't know shit about how it works. He just (somewhat - he still has a pretty low success rate in cloning) successfully blackboxed the process. He's far too arrogant to admit it.
>>44389782
> make females fat
> put geneseed in them
> shove small children in
> leave to simmer for a few hours
> you now have a space marine, or an unfleshed
Admit it, the mans a genius
>>44389735
I'm glad they changed that. It makes more sense, that modern space marines would be tougher then their HH counterparts. During the HH they mass produced marines and threw them into meat grinders, and half of them ended up turning traitor. Now the Imperium is fighting a constant war of survival with dwindling resources. They don't have enough gene seed or power armor to crank out marines like they could in the great crusade. So only the best of the best get selected, and even then drill like 24/7 and are hypnoindoctrinated to be hyper loyal war machines.
>>44389885
ya know. if they didn't shove a full size child inside and just simply knocked the bitch up. that baby would've most likely been born with skin and all the organs.
Also if it was a natural born with the organs, it'd probably be really big by marine standards.
>also there might've been female space marines as a result
>laughingmalcador.jpeg
>>44389782
Oh my god. You know next to nothing about Bile?
Bile successfully cloned the Primarchs and mastered geneseed.science. However, Abaddon blew up his lap with all of its reearch and pure gene samples. His research was setback and was damage beyond repair.
>>44390043
You can just as easily make a case for the opposite.
HH era marines were frontline troops that had to handle the toughest shit and were used for stuff that the Imperium would throw guardsmen at today.
Current space marines are special forces, HH marines had to do everything.
>>44390043
No, it doesn't because both sides achieve the same results. If you take a mix and shove them through a endless grinder that selects for the best then that's no different than selecting the best before you make them space marines.
It's arguably worse because their might not be consistency before and after the transformation; one person might improve massively from becoming a space marine.
>>44390114
> female chaos marines
My boner cant handle this
>Those loyal to the shrunken corpse on Terra still cling to their own processes by which perhaps one in a hundred neophytes may survive to become a battle-brother. The methods I have developed over the last millennia are more stringent, for we must be pure in our hatred and hard of heart, body and soul. Fewer than one in every thousand survive, and I strive each day to lengthen these odds still further.
>>44390158
you'd think with his resume, he'd have most of that shit memorized...or backed up out the ass
>>44390217
the problem with daemonculaba was that it was too short sighted.
>full grown marine in a matter of weeks?
yea it could do that, but was too much of a high priority target.
>simply waiting for natural born children
a mere 9 months and it'd be a marine size by age 20 and no chance of organ rejection. an overall higher success rate. if there was a failure, it'd simply be reabsorbed in the womb
It'd create the marines as a stable race onto its own.
>>44390288
If you could create a stable astartes 'race' that worked for chaos everyone would be so fucked.
>>44390340
that's a matter of perspective.
personally...I might try that in my black crusade game with my Warpsmith...there is no apothecary archtype.
>>44390272
you have no idea how much I want that added to black crusade. There is also no character background generator to give a more variable character generator
>>44389696
because vox networks are much more complex than a cell phone and that shit is retard baby babble to Admech to make.
hell, its an entire galaxy of tech adepts that range from "arrogant asshole" to "windbag smug fuck" and they've all got PH.D's in a super specific field
like, a specific pattern of lasgun is easily figured out. but an old cogitator from m34 that some guy got drunk and made might take a while to figure out, especially when you can't turn that fucker off.
>>44386725
Fabulous' clones were all fucked up.
He just stole and ressed Horus's body.
>>44390158
>Bile successfully cloned the Primarchs
Only Horus. And even that one was never proof-tested. It could be as deranged as Corax's attempts at rebuilding his chapter.
>mastered geneseed.science
As evident by what? His masturbatory ego-stroking?
> His research was setback and was damage beyond repair.
Sooo, he didn't really understand shit - just got his hands on some DAoT toys and unique samples.
>>44390483
Im sure you could give it to a bunch of gooks and in less than a month they would be manafacturing that shit in the millions.
>>44390516
>Sooo, he didn't really understand shit - just got his hands on some DAoT toys and unique samples.
He can't make something out of nothing. He needed a pure sample and Horus corpse provided one and from it came a perfect clone of Horus.
The Emperor required the knowledge to be inprinted into his mind by the Chaos Gods. Bile unlocked it via pure science.
>And even that one was never proof-tested.
What more do you need? It was a pure version of Horus with his memories.
>As evident by what? His masturbatory ego-stroking?
If he can clone a primarch. Geneseed is piss easy.
>>44390488
>He just stole and ressed Horus's body.
I do not recall the novel saying that.
>>44390605
Continued.....
>Not a child cloned from scraps of tissue and drops of blood. Not an abomination half lost to mutation’s touch and trapped inside a containment tank. It was Horus Lupercal, the First Primarch, Lord of the Space Marine Legions. Perhaps a touch younger looking than when any of us had last seen him, and clearly devoid of the Pantheon’s touch. But still Horus Lupercal, cloned from cold flesh harvested directly from his stasis-preserved corpse, wearing the armour stripped from his dead body. Horus Lupercal, clad in his breathtaking black war-plate, replete with the long fall of his white-wolf fur cloak and the pale shimmer of a kinetic force field protecting him like a halo.
It was a clone. It wasn't the ressed body of Horus.
A pure clone of Horus with his memories minus the blessing of the Chaos Gods.
Fabulus wile is a genius and the best being in existence
>>44390780
>>44390724
>>44390605
Fabius, please, log in before posting on /tg/so that we can easily hide your posts
Here is the related part from the novel. It seems that Bile didn't use pure science only. Some daemonic lore was used..
>>44390930
What happened next?
>>44391035Horus Time!No, daddy, no
>>44390831
Do you doubt the genius and good looks of fabulus fabius?i am not fabius
>>44391192
Fabius clone pls go.
>>44388085
I stand by it.
When I was still working for GW, we had a kid at my store who called him Fabulous Billy.
A short story by ADB shows Abaddon commanding that the soul of a dead rank-and-file marine be pulled back from the Warp and remade as a new recruit.
So there's that, too. Meaning they can potentially recycle just about anyone that they kill.
