The /btg/ is dead, long live the /btg/!
Christmas Comfy
Old thread: >>44327698
=====================
>/btg/ does a TRO.
http://builtforwar.blog(not spam) spot.com/
>The Happening has Happened and it was glorious:
http://bg.battletech.com/news/news-and-announcements/drop-pod-sequence-initiatedthree-two-one/
>How do I do this Against the Bot thing?
http://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5 (embed)
>Can I get an overview of the major factions?
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers/
>How do I find out what mechs a faction has?
http://masterunitlist.info/
>Map of /btg/ players (WIP):
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1116217&add=1
>Battletech Introductory Info and PDFs
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400
>Rookie guides
http://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx (embed)
>Sarna.net - Battletech Wiki
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
>Megamek - computer version of Battletech. Play with AI or other players
http://megamek.info/
>SSW Mech Designer
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
>Battletech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net
>PDF Folders
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9q792hobnbpw3/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
Christmas art dump
>mention to new gf that I play BT
>she gets me these for Christmas
th-thanks
>>44376302
[PURPLE BIRD INTENSIFIES INTO THE CAPPELLAN FEDERATION]
>>44376302
Your gf is a fucking hero. Wife that shit, jesus.
>>44376302
cool shirt, anon
that's it for now
enjoy!
>>44376302
Awesome. Here's to your girl, anon
Asked this question in the previous thread got a laugh but no real solid answer. So I picked up the intro box and want to branch out, I play Steiner, Word of blake, Clan wolf and Ghost bear and need a few good mechs to pick up. Basically Mechs that you kinda just want because they're pretty decent to have all the time.
So has anyone here come up with a ruleset for Mexican Battletech?
It could also be a drinking game.
>>44376803
Basically the idea is that all the mechs are shoddy, so they fall apart and make the game quicker.
Some rules I was thinking of were taking damage when you run, taking damage when you jump, ballistics jamming for a turn on low rolls, rolling twice for criticals, things like that.
If you shout ARRIBA! while making a DFA attack you get a bonus to piloting rolls, missiles have a chance of backfiring, turning around, and locking onto the person who fired them, making ammo take up twice as many crits and not allowing CASE
>>44376803
>It could also be a drinking game.
Two shots whenever a gyro is critted, one for each motive crit on a tank. Shot of Fireball for each unit over 20 heat during the heat phase.
Alternately (and this is actually one I've played) multiple objective markers on the map, each one forces the other player to take a shot while captured on the capturing unit's movement phase and another on its shooting phase.
All weapons do 50% more damage, only allowing succession war era mechs, shouting OLE' when someone misses a kick gives them a penalty to their piloting roll
>>44377141
shot of engine degreaser everytime you get an engine hit. Every time you miss a kick and fall down, whenever you get a headshot, 3 shots if its a decapitation
maybe just a shot everytime you fall down.
2 shots for an ammo explosion, whenever you shoot someone the back you have to sing a verse of the mexican hat dance.
You could just use primitive tech, it does basically what everyone's describing
>>44377223
This seems about right.
>fall down
>take pilot damage
>pass out
>>44376789
There's a bit of a problem in that the overlap between those factions is pretty small; the bears and wolves have some, depending on era and the wob and lyrans both use the unseen, but that's about it
>>44377208
Actually, I think this may be necessary...
A shot of "Flamer" seems good for engine hits, double for ammo explosions.
Other than that, I'd stay away from prescribing specific alcohols for drinking games...
Especially alcohols that are moonshine.
>>44376789
Kodiak, Atlas, Dire Wolf, Madcat, Warhawk, Catapult, (cause why not) Stone Rhino...
I don't about lights or meds, maybe Stormcrow or uller?
1 when you get hit in the head
1 when you fall down
1 when you get an engine hit
2 when you get gyro hit
2 when you get an ammo explosion
3 when you get your head blown off
shot of fireball when you go over 20 heat
You should also have to do something silly when each of these things happens, or you have to take another shot, like yelling Ole! when you fall down.
What would you put in a Clan Assault Mech Star?
>>44377593
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOUilxJWm24
>>44377789
Clan Assault mechs :^)tell us which era and which clan, Anon
>>44377789
5x supernovas armed with 6x clan large pulse lasers each.
>>44377857
Ghost Bear
>>44377896
laser reflective armor would put a major dent in that strategy.
>>44377857
clan invasion
>>44377937
isn't laser reflective armor advanced tech?
Better yet, say you had to face off against an assault star in a batchall, but all you have are light mechs. What would you bid?
>>44377789
5x Hellstars
>>44378071
>>44377896
ninja'd
>>44377913
Some of your options are:
Bruin
Executioner
Kodiak
Kodiak II
Kingfish
Marauder IIC
Viking IIC
>>44377994
What i mean, what is the smallest amount of lights you would send against them, and what types would you choose for your faction.
>>44378434
A full battalion of locust-1Ms, carrying a mix of incendiary, Thunder and regular LRMs
Merry Christmas, /btg
I'm off to Grorious Nippon for a month, so won't be around for a while. Have a good new year.
>>44378879
pls buy and scan japan-only BT books thx
Also have fun and eat like crazy and thanks for the random allocation tables
>>44379340
That's a great idea, assuming it's long out of business (if it's still a going concern then of course I can't do that). What is generally available already, so I know what not to bother with?
>>44379414
Merry Christmas, amigo.
>>44378879
Merry Christmas and thanks for all the RATs
>>44379414
I wasn't really being serious, but all Japanese BT stuff is out of print by 20+ years.
I believe they have their own versions of the BT boxed set (probably rules equivalent of our 2nd or 3rd edition, with standies instead of plastics), Citytech boxed set, and I think the MW RPG. The BT and CT boxed sets usually command a high price. There are also Japanese translations of Keith's GDL novels, 4 Japanese-original novels (pic-related), as well as a couple volumes of replays. The Japanese-original stuff and the GDL novels (not that anyone cares aout them) are probably Book-Off territory, though the game rules stuff is going to be harder to find.
>>44378879
Merry Christmas, man. Good luck, and bring Stormfury back some used panties or something.
>>44379758
Also, the Mechwarrior RPG replays (for those not in the parlance, a replay is a published transcript of a gaming session).
>>44379879
Cover of the first GDL novel and the spines of the rest
What's the largest mercenary unit that you've actually played in your games?
>>44380762
battalion strength
>>44380762
It was battleforce, so it's a bit less crazy, but a combined-arms brigade; two mech, one tank and one infantry regiment for the first few contracts. In 3049. We then ate smoke jaguar in the face and suffered approximately 70% casualties for everyone but the infantry, who only lost like 10%. We folded things into one combined-arms and one infantry regiment that happened to have way more transport than it really needed, so that's the more correct answer when speaking on a longer-term basis
>>44376854
>Some rules I was thinking of were taking damage when you run, taking damage when you jump
Just play in a low gravity environment.
>>44376854
Don't make rules that are specifically un-fun.
>>44381669
I wish somebody had told CGL that. Every tech level lower than Clantech is boring and un-fun, and they should have gotten rid of them when Clan tech came into the game. Seriously, single heat sinks? What's the fun of not getting to fire all your weapons every turn?
>>44381880
Subtlety is a key part of successfuly trolling, anon
>>44381880
>What's the fun of not getting to fire all your weapons every turn?
Have you never heard of bracket firing?
I like going full Megas and hitting the "ALL THE WEAPONS" button as much as the next guy, but having to make strategic decisions about what guns to fire and heat management can be fun too.
>>44381922
its the targeting penalties that make heat stupid.
>>44381880
Gr8 b8 m8.
i finally got to entropy-based warfare
>Focht nodded at a man in a Federated Commonwealth uniform. The man's ebon skin spoke of his African ancestry, but his crisp and precise gait as he approached the podium attested to military upbringing and training. Victor knew that the man was one of Doc Trevena's analysts and Doc spoke highly of him. For Doc to let him make this presentation means the guy has a lot on the ball.
The Precentor Martial nodded at the man. "For those of you who have not met him, this is Dr. Michael Pondsmith. He is currently serving in the Armed Forces of the Federated Commonwealth as a Kommandant, though when not on active duty he is an instructor at the Sakhara Academy. His field of study is military history and quantitative analysis. His studies have found a model of warfare upon which we will build our assault, and we have asked him here to explain it to you. In this way we will all start with the same foundation. Dr. Pondsmith."
>"Thank you, Precentor Martial." Pondsmith's voice came deep and rich, instantly commanding attention. "The model of warfare I have been studying is known as Entropy-based Warfare. It was developed by Dr. Mark Herman, a military analyst and designer of military conflict simulations in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century. It adds a third realm of conflict to the usually accepted dual-realm model of warfare. The additional material this theory addresses has been, at various times, dismissed as difficult to quantify or only marginally influential; but the fact is that this model applies very directly and significantly in facing a threat like the Clans."
>>44382244
>Pondsmith hit a button on the podium's control panel and a yellow holographic circle appeared before the delegates. "Warfare modeling began very simply. One mode was taken into account, here represented by this yellow circle. It is lethality: the ability of troops to kill other troops and the effect of such power on the enemy. We all know—most recently from the Clan invasions themselves—that an enemy's ability to project lethality upon troops can make those who survive the attack crumble because of the horror and fear created by this projection of lethal force. For the longest time, lethality was the only element in warfare and, even up to the time of post-industrial military conflicts, it was the primary deciding factor in war."
>Victor saw a red circle burn into the projection and overlap with the yellow one. It bore the legend "Disruption."
>"As tactical considerations increased and became more necessary—because increased lethality and range accompanied military technological advances and increased the size of battlefields and wars—non-lethal and deceptive methods of causing problems for the enemy became valuable. If an enemy could be made to think you were going to attack at one place when, in fact, you meant to attack at another, his military might would be misplaced and wasted. Even keeping enemy troops on alert for an attack that never comes will have a serious effect on their ability to wage war.
>"The overlap between lethality and disruption comes from the advantage gained when command and control units are destroyed, or supply lines are disrupted. By a very specific projection of lethality, a target that affects the enemy's ability to respond can be destroyed. Kill a messenger relaying orders to a unit and that unit never moves. Kill a commander and that unit has no brain. While these units are by no means taken out of the battle, they are less than effective in helping to prosecute it."
>>44382259
>The black man pointed to the center of the room as a blue circle materialized and overlapped with the other two. "The Herman model adds in this third element: friction. It accounts for the damage done to a unit through wear and tear, both of maintenance necessary to keep it operational while on station and especially the problems caused by bringing the force to battle. Desertion, vehicle breakdown, taxing of fuel and food supplies, morale problems, and a host of other barely tangible factors fall into this realm. The green area of overlap between friction and lethality is known as maintenance attrition. It covers the inability of a force to repair damage and recover from a battle. The purple overlap between friction and disruption is called inertia and covers the damage done to a unit as it reacts to false threats and other deceptions.
>"The central area there, where all three circles overlap is the crux of entropy-based warfare. What it says is this: if you make the enemy move where you want him to move, hit key command and control units so he begins to lose command cohesion, then you hit him hard enough to shock his troops—and it's vital that shocking occurs—the enemy's troops will crumble. They literally won't know why they are where they are, they won't know what to do, and they'll be faced with enemies against whom there is no defense. If war is hell," Pondsmith concluded, "entropy-based warfare is Satan's sauna."
Man I wish we saw more entropy-based warfare in BT, it sounds extreme.
>>44382277
And then the Clans were so war that they couldn't even, and ComStar was win.
>>44378879
Merry Christmas you glorious bastard. Take care of yourself in Nippon.
>>44377986
depends on era. late republic or DA, it's considered standard tech.
bamp
>>44377994
>What would you bid?
A Star of Fire Falcon Bs. Then hope that I'm the one who gets to say where it's fought, so I can select a salt plain or other wide-open space without obstructions. Possibly an ice sheet, then I can cruise around at 8 hexes a turn while the Assaults are probably taking piloting checks if they want to go more than 4 hexes.
>>44382277
>>44384370
No no, you don't bid on a 1 for 1. You'd have to be fucking crazy to take 5 lights against 5 assaults.
I'd take 5 fucking lances, at least.
>>44384370
Like basically what i'm asking is how many lights would be the MINIMUM to stand a chance against them before you would be willing to commit to a battle, and what types would you use?
Also, on a related note, has an IS power ever issued a batchall to a clan?
>>44382277
>Man I wish we saw more entropy-based warfare in BT, it sounds extreme.
No, it was pathetic. Which is why DirewolfV/Demerzel invented Combo-Mechs and Hyper-Entropy Warfare, to really give the WoB and Clans something to think about.
More seriously though >>44384377 is right. EBW basically Stackpole getting a boner for an idea, like the FedCom realising it could use its massive numerical advantages, and then having a FedCom character be the mouthpiece of the idea so he could point out how awesome it was and how only FedCom characters could be smart enough to understand and implement the GLARINGLY FUCKING OBVIOUS.
CAN MONDO MECHS SURVIVE?!?
>>44384387
>No no, you don't bid on a 1 for 1.
Then you are not Clan enough, freebirth.
>You'd have to be fucking crazy to take 5 lights against 5 assaults.
The Fire Falcon B has two TC'ed ER Large Lasers and moves 8/12. In those environments it's generating a +4 AMM with +4 for the range and 3 for base gunnery assuming Clan Regular pilots- 11s to be hit, 12s if the enemy walked, impossible if they ran. In return they're hitting on 8s.
>>44384406
>Like basically what i'm asking is how many lights would be the MINIMUM to stand a chance against them before you would be willing to commit to a battle, and what types would you use?
There's always the Arrow IV UrbanMech, I guess.
>Also, on a related note, has an IS power ever issued a batchall to a clan?
A few times. The Clans rarely accepted because they got wise to the fact that IS forces would always use trickery rather than fight it in a way the Clans would see as fair.
Prime examples would be Tukayyid and the Great Refusal.
>>44382244
>>44382259
>>44382277
Behold my mastery of Venn Diagrams, truly I am a Strategic Genius.
>>44384474
If you're the one issuing the batchall, then doesn't the defender get to pick terrain?
I mean, I'm assuming there is something on the planet that you want bad enough to throw a dozen lights to their doom.
>>44384533
In theory yes. In practice we have challenges where the attacker making the Batchall also said where they'd fight.
>>44384594
well they sure as shit aren't going to fight you on open terrain.
I'm still mad that they rejected my story about dinosaur poachers in the draconis combine.
>>44384754
It had bionic raptors.
How can you not want to read a story about bionic raptors?
What if you could put somebodies brain in a mech?
>>44384805
...They do put people's brains in mechs.
Along with all the other parts.
>>44384805
Then the word of Blake would design a whole new class of mechs around it.
Actually that's not far off from the celestial series anyways.
I think I've finally designed a mech good for exploiting the C-Bill efficiency inherent in the compact mech quirk. For only 5 million space-bucks it's a 5/8/5 50 tonner with near-to-max armor and weaponry enough for a trooper. The BV is bloated as hell though.
>>44384728
>well they sure as shit aren't going to fight you on open terrain.
Why not?
People have given you some very reasonable responses and all you've done is come up with ways it won't work. If you want the assault force to win, just say so.
>>44380762
5 battalions, about 75% clan mechs, the rest twinked out custom mechs. (Don't introduce the clans to campaign games where most of the pilots are 1/2 or better with edge, bad things happen.)
>>44386664
I bet AtB is behind this
>>44386694
Like so?
>>44386694
Nope, it was back in the early Neolithic era. MegaMek didn't yet exist. For reference, pic related was the unit commander's personal ride, any similarities to the Penetrator are entirely coincidental because I made this abomination before the Penetrator existed. Included it with the 0/1 CO's stats so you can see how hilariously broken it was, considering that it predated BV1 it was getting tonnage matched. (Yes, I'm fucking old, dammit!)
>>44386849
Note that I don't do shit this munchkin these days, usually I field an entire lance for the price of this bastard.
>>44386849
Good God... heat neutral sniper energy zombie.
>>44382244
>>44382259
>>44382277
Holy shit this is brilliant.
But why did the author make such a focus of showing the character was black?
>>44384412
Weren't the succession wars just EBW anyway?
>>44379414
Merry Christmas, Xotl.
Japanese books of BattleTech are summarized in this fan site.
You'll be able to search from Amazon.com using the ISBN code listed.
http://www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Irregulars/japanese.htm
When viewed from the current eye There are a variety of misunderstanding and mistranslation, but had less people that can be verified at 20 years ago.
>>44388482
>But why did the author make such a focus of showing the character was black?
Michael Pondsmith was a guy who won a (charity) auction to have his name used for a canon character. Maybe he's black IRL?
>>44388592
Hence the "GLARINGLY FUCKING OBVIOUS" bit.
"Hey you guys, if we fight the Clans like we fight each other, it'll be easier to beat them than if we try and fight the Clans the way they fight each other!"
Gee. Fuckin'. Duh.
>new version of mekhq released
>download it
>it completely breaks atb battles
>cant customize mechs in the mek lab anymore
>>44388854
>Michael Pondsmith was a guy who won a (charity) auction to have his name used for a canon character. Maybe he's black IRL?
Like the Mekton and Cyberpunk creator Mike Pondsmith? If so, yeah, he's quite black.
I'm planning to run a Battletech gameday at my FLGS.
We've got a couple of newish players who haven't seen too much action yet plus a couple of veterans who are interested in dusting off their old stuff. However, we're having some trouble getting together to actually play some games regularly.
Therefore, this would basically be an event where players can just show up with a certain-BV list (with maybe a few other restrictions) and we can play some games.
What kind of BV and other limits would you guys recommend?
Something like 5k BV, no pilots better than 3/4, no gunnery/piloting difference greater than 2, canon designs only is what I had in mind personally.
>>44385070
We'll finally get Wobbie Protos. They are basically Clan protos that have had the EI cradle ripped out and replaced with a Mechwarrior brain wired up to a C3i computer (Nothing else from the mechwarrior, just the brain, and the fluid retention layer to stop the brain drying out, and a artificial heart to keep the brain supplied with blood.)
>>44389479
WoB players are the worst
>>44389479
>Finally get wobbie protos
But the WoB did have protos, they were just clan ones with a quadruple amputee MD pilot stuck in them and directly wired to all the controls.
>>44391319
Forget it, man. It's probably the dude who thinks that the IS has the technology not to just make its own Protos, but to surpass Clan tech in doing so, because munchkins gotta munch and those C3ed, Stealth-armoured Protos aren't gonna build themselves.
>>44389369
I would also set an era or rule level restriction, to avoid someone showing up with gear that has mechanics which will bog down play. Possibly "Tournament-level rules to 3085 only" or the like.
If you have a lot of new players, it may even be worth limiting it to Introductory-tech designs only.
>>44392142
Yeah, I've been thinking about stuff like that.
Several of our new players are rather interested in playing the Clans, so Introtech only is probably not a good idea.
>>44392172
How about a split? One or two clantech v clantech games, the rest 3025 IS only
>>44391975
by now the IS has to be surpassing Clan tech. Massively greater resources, brainpower, decades to reverse engineer, refine and manufacture, etc. All while the Clans, meanwhile, suffered a massive brain drain by their own scientists revolting and being purged.
>>44389369
Don't have them show up with forces. Design (number of expected players+3) forces yourself, and YOU make sure they're balanced with each other, and none of them will result in bad feelings. Then have your players randomly determine who picks their force first. With a few extra forces, even the guy who picks last won't feel totally jobbed, because there's still several to pick from.
Oh, and you should pick last, as you've organized the forces.
Do force generation like this until you've established a group and a culture that you can trust with "bringing their own forces." This way everything is a lot easier, and there's a LOT less chance of munchkinry and/or pissed-off-edness among your players. You want to put that sort of gamesmanship off as long as possible when you're putting together a new group.
>>44392473
>by now the IS has to be surpassing Clan tech.
Nah, because as much as there are books and occasional release of new eras most of Battletech is a pretty static setting. If innersphere tech development were actually going to model incremental improvements in the fundamentals we'd be doing things like multiplying Endosteel chassis weight by some function in which construction year was a parameter. We don't and the lasers never get better. In the setting it's like once Ford Made the T 4 cylinder engine no-one tried to make a better 4 cylinder engine. Except the autistic invaders.
Tech will advance in a stepwise function when they finally decide circa 32xx that '3rd Gen' is officially a thing. The fan base will rally to ostracize the 'Dirty Thirdies'
The IS will never surpass the Clans because the tech base actually models a level of development and not the development of a region.
>>44393946
>The IS will never surpass the Clans because the tech base actually models a level of development and not the development of a region.
Which is indicative of the difference between a game and real life. Trying to model the latter is going to be an exercise in futility and irritation anyway, so sticking with the former is clearly the better choice.
>>44393644
That does sound like it could be good, although a few of players might want to use their own stuff.
Maybe I could just talk with them about force creation and have them make a few lists with me to ensure they're balanced.
Although I'm not sure I myself am experienced enough to decide if something is balanced or not.
>>44393984
>Although I'm not sure I myself am experienced enough to decide if something is balanced or not.
Well, you can always post samples up here for extra review. People'll be generally OK with telling you *why* something is crazy-strong or weak. BTG was pretty helpful in that regard for my last couple of revisions on the Introbox Faction Lances project.
Elseways, the thing with just you doing all the prep work is that if something is broken, it's more likely to be broken across *all* the forces. Say you really value having a lot of guns on a Mech. That tends to lead to having IS XL engines, to save weight for guns. XLs make a mech fairly fragile (not the unplayable deathtrap you might think from some people's posts, but it definitely doesn't help). If you like having XLs on all the Mechs so that have more guns, then it actually kind of averages out across the various forces. Whereas if you have 3 players who brought their own forces with XLs, and one guy who brought a force that was Awesome/Guillotine/Grasshopper heavy (energy zombies), the one guy is likely to win and everyone else'll be pissed. Does that make sense?
My suggestion for balancing the overall forces to be played by relatively new players would be:
1) Balance by BV2. All the forces should be within about a 100-200 BV range.
2) Look at the armor totals; if one force has 30 combined tons of armor and the other five all have 50 combined tons, the 30-ton force needs revision.
3) Look at the total throw-weight of guns at ranges 18, 12, and 6. If a force has a huge advantage at 2 or more of those ranges, it needs revision.
4) No more than 2 headcappers in a given lance (Guass, cERPPC, AC/20; cluster weapons don't count).
5) No "park and play" Mechs. Awesomes, Hellstars, Devastators, Longbows, etc are all great things, but they aren't *engaging* for new players. If you must use them, make sure there's one and only one in each and every lance.
6) No unit spam.
Hope that helps.
>>44394293
>Well, you can always post samples up here for extra review.
Yeah, I might do that then.
>The other balance suggestions
Yeah, those seem to make sense.
I'll see if I can at least get one certain player to not use the Awesome he's fielded in all his games against me so far.
He did get a bounch of Clan stuff at Essen, so he might want to try out some stuff like his new Hunchie IIC instead. That might be interesting as well.
>>44393984
If y'all don't mind, I have q few suggestions to go with NEA's
1: I would recommend including a bunch of mechs with widely varied weapon arrays like the Thunderbolt, Merlin, Shadow Hawk, Warhammer or Wyvern so as to let new players learn more weapons and how to use different ones together
2: include as many "iconic" mechs as you can; if there's clans there has just about got to be a Madcat, and atlases are a good idea for at least one IS unit
3: include at least one big, heavy or assault-class brawler/melee design, because they are immensely satisfying to use and make for great stories after the fact; a banshee, victor or highlander would be perfect
>>44394619
Also good suggestions. Especially 3. Landing a charge from a Banshee - especially on something like a Blackjack - is one of those moments that absolutely gets people to come back to the game.
If you're starting with 1 Mech each, I agree with #1. If you're giving them each a lance, you can do "weapon variety" across the entire lance, rather than on each individual unit. That will have the same teaching effect, and can be easier for poeple to keep track of (THIS Mech uses 2 LRM launchers, so I only have to think about how LRMs work when resolving this fire. THAT Mech has an AC/20 and some MLs, so I don't have to worry about cluster rules when running that Mech.)
>>44394619
>Shadow Hawk
I get wanting to teach newbies about weapon variation, but let's not get carried away. The Introtech Shawks are atrocious.
>>44395130
It's alright as a fourth member of a lance where the other three mechs are more specialized
>>44395130
>atrocious
>mfw I took a stock Shadow Hawk and a stock Marauder to a tournament where everyone else was using a Wolverine-M or Marauder-D if they had anything at 55 or 75 tons and came second on points
Yeah, no. Not even that anon. The Shadow Hawk's not going to make anyone's list of the top 10 most optimised designs in the game, but it can always do something to help its lance. If nothing else the common perception that it's shit will get most opponents to ignore it for far longer than they should.
>>44394293
hey NEA, if the Snow Raven fleet and the FWL fleet in 3067 (counting all named Theras as operational for good measure) met in combat in their entirety, which would win?
>>44395526
The Ravens have a lot more big bruisers than the FWL, and have both the York and Conqueror-Class carriers.
Ravens are gonna tear PURPLE BURD a new one.
>>44394619
>>44394753
Big, stompy stuff and iconic designs do seem like obvious choices.
With the intro box contents (including Beemer and Mad Cat), a Battle lance (extra Banshee and Zeus, plus Orion and Hatchetman), a Reseen Rifleman and a couple more Clan designs (Dasher, Uller, Puma, Thor and Marauder IIC) I should have a pretty interesting arsenal to build forces from.
If my recent order arrives in time, I could add a Locust, Firestarter, Raven and Black Hawk to that selection.
>>44395699
Two Conquerors and one York? Purple burd would tear them a new one.
>>44395699
Three of them vs four Theras, with one more still in production? Nah, PURPLE BIRD stomps.
Now, PURPLE BIRD and Snowy Magpie vs the rest of the universe? That might be an even fight.
>>44396607
With the scenario as phrased, it's SIX Theras.
Assuming that the first few succession wars weren't so effective at wiping out all the warships and yards for em, what would the naval situation look like by the early 3000s?
>>44397687
Purple bird's reigning supreme, four Drac aerospace carriers being set ablaze by FedRats in the Battle of Cassias, entropy-based warfare everywhere, and mercenary regiments carving out their own small states.
>>44397687
Each state has a handful of Corvettes and destroyers being used for commerce raiding, and that do most of what little warship-on-warship fighting still happens. A few might even still be produced every so often. There'd be a couple frigates that only ever get used on the rare big offensives, and a couple of cruisers and battleships that never see any use for fear of losing them. A few of the bigger merc units might have one, two at the absolute limit, but these would in extremely poor shape. The periphery states might have a couple in only slightly better shape than the mercenary ones. Possibly the wolves would have brought their Vincent or Lola III along, because it wouldn't stand out QUITE so much. The clans might even end up facing something resembling actual naval opposition
>>44397909
Also, the Taurian Concordat would have several dozens of warships at least since they're technologically at parity with the Successor States and still had functioning shipyards.
>>44398034
Ooooo, NICE bait.
>>44398054
What are you talking about?
>>44398054
Eh. Guess you've missed the last few threads, but we've actually had a higher-than-usual run of low-quality "look at me I'm a taurianfag" bait lately after our local taurian-hatefag jumped on an actual taurian fan a few threads back
>>44398054
Way too obvious
>>44398255
It's more Medron-mocking but sure.
>>44398255
Ah, I see.
I suppose the real question is whether it's possible - without being outright told - to tell a genuine OF-compliant Taurian fan apart from the "me a taurianfag cause TC has better tech than the League" level baiting.
Don't get me wrong, I'm OK with the Periphery getting some nice toys so they can meaningfully participate (and I realize I'm in the minority on that), but anyone who either insists that any Periphery nation is anywhere near a blanket technological parity with the Successor States, has a meaningful WarShip fleet, or has Medron's avatar saved with a "Medron Pryde.jpg" filename is intellectually crippled at best, is most likely downright delusional, and certainly has a poorer grip on reality than Herb does of the concept of "proportional responses" and Coleman does of "small business finances and the ethics thereof."
>>44398334
We have a bunch of good, realistic Taurian fans here. 9 times out of 10 if you see someone saying something Medron-tier they're probably either baiting or just joking around.
>>44398404
NEA did say "OF-compliant", though. That disqualifies pretty much all of our regular and real Taurian fans. It sure as hell DQs me.
>>44398334
>or has Medron's avatar saved with a "Medron Pryde.jpg" filename
You'd kinda have to be intellectually crippled or downright delusional to take anyone seriously who posted with that image to begin with.
>>44398416
That's the point, though. Our regulars are reasonable enough that isn't difficult to tell one apart from the other here. If one needs to be told then one needs to lurk moar.
>>44398334
>certainly has a poorer grip on reality than Herb does of the concept of "proportional responses" and Coleman does of "small business finances and the ethics thereof."
kek. Saved for use on the OF.
>>44398422
Medron's verifiably posted here in the past, actually. I'm reasonably sure that a good quarter of the Taurian bait is actually him looking for validation.
Taurian fans assemble!
Form ofmilitary junta that's wasted our resources and squandered our limited military potential!
>>44398486
But he wouldn't post his own avatar, right? Has he verifiably posted recently? I feel like I must have missed it if he did.
>>44398459
Good luck with that.
>>44398416
Yeah, generally the Taurians here are pretty cool. I'll even say that I occasionally judge ya'll based on my interactions with OF Taurian fans, and that's really not fair to you folks. So thank, you, BTG Taurians, for not being *completely* irrational. It could be worse; you could like an objectively worse faction, likeinsert anon's faction here, right?
>>44398531
>he doesn't likeinsert anon's faction here
You always were an asshole,Gorman
>>44398499
anyone have more taurian themed pics? official art or painted mechs?
Now that I think on it, I can't remember any genuine hardcore taurianfags in the last few months.
Last one I remember was the last time somebody posted the "clans from the other end" shit, which was in the summer?
Less meta discussion would be good
>>44399205
Yeah, fair enough.
Post mechs from minor powers, tiny manufacturers, pirates and mercenaries
>>44391975
>thinks C3 and stealth are munchkin
Do you cry when anyone uses anything past introtech?
>>44399205
Meta is the only original thing left to talk about. Everything else has been discussed and dissected ad nauseum.
Snow Ravens:
Nightlord 1, Volga 2, Potemkin 5, Aegis 7, McKenna 1, Cameron 3, Lola 3, Texas 1, Carrack 2, Sovetskii Soyuz 2, Conqueror 2, Whirlwind 2, Congress 1, Essex 1, Vincent 1, York 1, Fredesa 1
36 Ships, 794 embarked ASF, 156 DropShips
FWL:
Vincent 1, Zechetinu 11, Essex 2, Impavido 3, Eagle 10, Aegis 2, Agamemnon 4, Black Lion 1, Thera 4
38 Ships, 1142 embarked ASF, 105 DropShips
The FWL appears to have an advantage, but the Vincent, Essex, Zechetinu, Eagle and Agamemnon are all so hilariously shit they're gonna contribute dick all to proceedings before dying, leaving the Ravens with 32 ships (also counting out the Clan Carracks, because srsly) to the FWL's 14.
"Oh, but the FWL has 50% more fighters!" Yeah, not so much. The Ravens are written as being extremely heavy on Carriers and Titans. Let's ignore the Titans and just put Carriers in the 51 extra drop collars they have over the FWL. Boom, the Ravens are ahead by 162 fighters.
Then let's consider crew skills. The Ravens are the only faction in the game with battle-tested ship crews, and literally all of their crews are graded as Clan Elite.
You'd be right in predicting a brutal, one-sided smackdown. You'd be dead wrong in predicting it's the FWL that will be doing the beating.
You can add the two Theras that won't be finished until 3068 and 3070 if you really want to, it's not gonna change shit. The Ravens have too much of a head start on the League.
>>44399263
If you don't see why allowing Stealth armour on units with Near Miss locations (in conjunction with all the other bullshit the MUH IS PROTOS! dude wants them to have) is a bad thing, I hope someone spams a force using nothing but against you to teach you the errors of your ways.
>>44399355
So you're desperate to add extra gimp rules for no reason because something messes with your headcannon.
>>44399296
nah, the FWLN would waste the snow birds
>>44399397
wat
It's purely a balance thing. Protos are already under-costed for BV and can be spammed even more without FSM to bring them into check.
Giving them +7 to-hit at long range with Near Miss location tables on top of that is pure, unmitigated bullshit.
But no, must be about headcannon or something. Right.
>>44399434
PURPLE BURD STRONK aside, why? There's going to be at least 2 points of skill difference between the crews in the Ravens' favour, most likely 3.
The Aegis and Conquerors of the Ravens can literally kill all the Eagles and Agamemnons of the FWL in a single turn of firing. Their armour is that abysmal; 39 is the best on an Eagle over 45 SI and 57 armour over 40 SI on the Agememnons can be annihilated by just the Nose arc on a Conqueror (291 damage) and a Nose + Fore-Side battery (140 damage) on the Aegis.
I seriously don't know how much you're being guided by PURPLE BURD STRONK and/or MUH ASF SWARMS, but the majority of the FWL fleet is made of gossamer over happy thoughts. The Ravens do have some shit ships, but they have only 4 that are likely to die in the first turn of firing compared to the FWL's 24.
Once the shit hits the fan, the FWLN is just proper fucked.
>>44399296
>let's make one third of the raven's dropships specialized carriers just cause
>NONE of the FWLN's drop ships are ASF carriers
Yeah, sure SRR, whatever gets you hard
Anyhow, the raven's WarShip "advantage" doesn't mean dick if this goes to nukes, which the FWL 200% would. If it goes to nukes, the white birds get BTFO and the FWLN's two or three fastest ships survive, along with a handful of ASFs and nothing else.
Conventional, though, white bird beats purple bird 90% of the time, sure
>>44399524
If you can't beat a force that gets cored eaily, blown apart by anything powerful and isn't packing anything bigger than a standard medium laser, you're a really shitty player. Do you forbid your opponents from using anything with jump jets too, because its unfair to your "hyper entropic warfare" forces?
What do you think pulse lasers, LRMs, lb-x and SRMs are for? That would be easy to beat if you're remotely competent.
>>44376302
On the one hand "Aw, she got you Battletech Stuff" on the other she got you Star Lord. She gets points for trying i guess.
>>44376803
3025 was pretty much MexiTech.
>>44399786
>NONE of the FWLN's drop ships are ASF carriers
They can bring as many as they like. If you include the two unready Theras, the FWL has 1542 ASFs, which the Ravens can match by adding 25 Titans to their force with 131 drop collars left over compared to the 105 the Leage has. Shit, if the Ravens want to go balls to the wall and bring Vengeances (which they have) they can match the FWLN with 137 collars left over. I was being *nice* by making them use the Carrier.
The Ravens have a massive advantage in firepower, armour, skill, DropShips, and if they feel like it, ASF numbers too.
>but muh nukes
And this is how I know you have literally no experience with AeroTech. Landing a Nuke hit on the tabletop basically requires a god damn act of God to accomplish due to how they're fired and how Point Defence works.
But sure, let's ignore that little problem and say it goes to nukes. The FWLN has 102 tubes capable of launching nukes. Most of those are on the Zechs that are going to die in the first turn of firing. The Snow Ravens have 210 tubes, most of those on their bricks, Aegis and above.
>buh buh but MUH PURPLE BURD STRONK
Snow Ravens stronker. Deal with it.
>>44399296
>>44399696
>>44399786
>>44400047
The real question is if either navy could beat medron pryde's idea of a "realistic" taurian navy
>>44400295
His "realistic" Taurian navy would have at least 50 2.5 megaton deathblobs. As bullshit as the Leviathan III is, particularly in terms of the other ships in the canon setting, it still doesn't max out what you can really do with WarShips.
The only hope for salvation other fleets might have against such horrors is that Medron is completely shit actually optimising designs, despite his claims to the contrary. So his 2.5 MT would-be deathblobs might be beatable, if only by Lev III-type ships.
>>44400373
Out of morbid curiosity, I kind of want to go on the OF and get a definitive answer as to what his idea of a "reasonable" taurian navy is
>>44400373
>it still doesn't max out what you can really do with WarShips.
I have this horrible need to know what a TRULY optimized maximum deathblob warship would look like
>>44402568
Considering what ASFs are ton-for-ton the most powerful thing you can field, it's probably an incredibly thick-skinned carrier.
>>44400047
>crunching all those figures to win a factional E-peen fight
The true victor between you two is your virginity
thoughts on this nightstar?
>>44401073
>>44402663
Behold, the Reasonable-Class. It's a touch underpowered though.
>>44402783
Samefagging this hard now that you've been conclusively shown to be wrong.
>>44403505
Ehhh... one of the defining traits of the Nightstar is having the same class (in for the same type) of ballistic weapons. It actually looks like more of a Banshee.
>>44403975
>All that armor
>7000 DHS, it can fire everything all the time.
But why it has no anti-fighter weaponry?
>Cargo Bay 3: 214 Aerospace Fighters. 25 Doors
Oh...
Ballpark estimate, what is the BV on that thing anyway? Are there even any IS fleets that could match its lone BV?
On the other hand you could lead it on a wild goose chase in-system until its crew runs out of food.
>>44404538
>But why it has no anti-fighter weaponry?
A: 214 Fighters of its own
B: Killer Whales with Peacemakers
C: That's what the NL bays are for. Put them in Anti-Aircraft mode and Lethal Threshold virtually anything.
No idea on the BV front, I designed it by hand (which is why I forgot certain stats like the crew count). With combat capabilities comparable to the Leviathan III, it'd be in the same ballpark. Besides, BV is fundamentally broken at the DropShip level, let alone for WarShips. It doesn't even provide a rough guide for combat ability, the Farragut and Black Lion are costed in around the same bracket, but the Black Lion will wreck the Farragut's shit the majority of the time. The Black Lion is in turn costed higher than the McKenna, but the McKenna is nowhere near as bad as that comparison suggests.
>On the other hand you could lead it on a wild goose chase in-system until its crew runs out of food.
Not gonna happen, Every ASF pilot, Marine, Small Craft crewman and normal Crew member has their own, dedicated quarters. 15KT of supplies (plus as many Mules as you want to strap onto it) will keep it going for over two years. Plus it can just call in another Reasonable-Class with its supporting McKenna and Texas-Class ships with its HPG. Or it could refuse to play that game and move in-system and interdict the planet, at least when on the offensive.
>>44404783
Also, should be 216 fighters, not 214. 4*54=216. I paid the correct tonnage for the ASF bays and crew quartering, just didn't spot the transcription error before.
>>44403975
>crying samefag
lol
Yet another reason the Clans should never have existed
Reading HBMPS, how did the Canopians get so competent out of nowhere?
They start out in the game as a fairly modest realm that has a small military and doesn't fight much, being devoted more to pleasure, and then suddenly they're depicted as having the largest Periphery military, the best Periphery military academy and training, professional soldiers despite rank-purchasing being established from day 1, and suddenly industrially capable whereas they never had been.
Did some of Sun-Tzu's perfectness just rub off on to them?
I ask this sort of to contrast their HB with House Kuritas. Whereas so much of the original Periphery information is retconned to make the Magistracy so different and stronger, it's been pointed out that a lot of the info in the original Kurita sourcebook was pretty much carried over to HBHK.
I just wonder what the writers were thinking, keeping Kurita's early cartoonishly evil lore while retconning the Magistracy to make us somehow think a nation steeped in discrimination and with a military you buy rank in is somehow efficient and competent.
/rant
>>44405530
>"Anyone who can prove herself a victim of
oppression is granted full citizenship"
- Canopian law
it's literally tumblr: the faction
>>44405530
It all happened literally just to help Sun-Tzu and the CapCon. Nothing else really needs be said. Fasanomics, etc. Where would Sun-Tzu get the expendable money or tech to really be of use in 3057 despite his nation being a basket-case? Doesn't matter, the story required it.
>>44405569
>tumblr
You mean Germany?
>>44405744
Is that a /pol/ joke? I earned my German citizenship by dint of being born there so I've never bothered to look into the law otherwise.
>>44405761
Sort of, superglue lady's agenda has been in that direction lately.
>>44405777
Oh yes, that mess.
>>44405530
>Did some of Sun-Tzu's perfectness just rub off on to them?
yes, through his dick.
>>44405530
it's kind of a long-standing tradition for them; in essence, whatever the TC SHOULD be capable of but doesn't do, happens to them.
see: managing to build SIX FULL REGIMENTS in eight years of predominantly medium and mechs on a industrial base of fifty bugs and ten shads a year, while the taurians with their big 'ol pile of star league heavy factories manage two. of mostly light mechs.
This is even worse compared to the IS; in that time period, the FWL, at the very top of it's game is building two new regiments a year. as the industrial powerhouse of the IS. the magistracy manages a THIRD of this with ONE specifically said to be shit-tier factory.
build a highly competent and skilled military?
the TDF gets hyped as such but jobs the second that anything happens while a system that makes social generals look sane inexplicably produces nothing but elite troops and master commanders
shit, here's anohter minor but hilarious example: the MAF ground forces are said to be mostly comprised of older rommel tanks. the same tanks that the taurians "never built" and people will froth at the mouth if you even suggest such a thing, but the canopians are knee-deep in them just because, right?
also, as of HBMPS, the magistracy now has slaves (no, really, check the back of the book), for whatever ungody reason, and nobody seems to care about that
but yeah, this is basically because they're really the "canopian commonality" of the CapCon and therefor fueled by coleman's fast rap embezzlement magic
>>44405530
The same way everyone does, fiat.
Look, for better or worse, production numbers and prior fluff (1e Periphery handbook) mean jack and shit. If the story the authors want to tell require the Marians to field a division, then there will be magic warehouses or something so they have a division. I'd like it if this wasn't the case, but neither FASA, FanPro, nor CGL has ever let the canon production numbers get in the way of their story.
That's true for EVERY faction.
>>44406727
> I'd like it if this wasn't the case, but neither FASA, FanPro, nor CGL has ever let the canon production numbers get in the way of their story.
That's probably a good thing when you think about it. Being unable to tell interesting stories because a book you published a decade ago didn't indicate that you have enough factories to do so would be quite restricting (not to mention boring).
But on another note, can someone explain the Taurian "No Rommels" thing?
>>44406727
But the numbers are canon. They can't just ignore them, otherwise what's the goddamn point in having them? They can't DO that!
>>44399938
Hey now anon, Star Lord is great silly read. Don't knock it mate.
>>44406785
>But on another note, can someone explain the Taurian "No Rommels" thing?
Periphery 1e had the taurians building Pattons and Hatchetmen, the hatchetman thing got retconned quickly in TRO:3050, but the patton wasn't retconned for a good while longer, and in the mean time, a few products were released which included stuff based on the assumption that the taurians were producing rommels, including Periphery 2e, which I think is what anon is speaking of
>>44405569
I imagine the sticking point there is proving to them that you've been oppressed, considering how subjective that can be in general (and how skewed their viewpoint could be) The law is more or less 'citizenship for whoever they feel like giving it to'.
All we really know for sure is that they take in runaway Clanners seemingly without question (especially scientists), while telling Marians to get bent even if they were actual runaway slaves.
>>44405530
I'm a MoC fan and I've had that same rant. Even though they changed from a sideline observer of the setting to a wrecking ball of pure winning, doing so made them less fun, and I dislike that.
>>44407064
I WANT to like the MoC, I really do. I just can't get over the hardcore institutional sexism (like, the female nobility is legally permitted to rape literally anybody they want) that everybody is seemingly completely OK with despite (rightly) lambasting the dracs for the same thing. This, plus the capcon shit, I just can't do it, man
>>44407064
So like most countries they take in the skilled valuable labor and kick out the poor useless mouths to feed. That seems about accurate.
>>44407342
So ultimately what are the rules for when a faction is allowed to win, vs when a faction ought to lose?
Looking at the Atlas, are there any decent variants for it as time timeline advances?
>>44408185
the AS7-S3 is a solid machine.
>>44407342
I don't mean to sound sexist but I don't see how men wouldn't take over a system like that. Men are typically larger, stronger, inclined to violence and so forth. I'm sure someone will cite a backwards-ass native tribe of 30 people as why matriarchy can work but it really doesn't make sense in a modern society.
>>44406310
>also, as of HBMPS, the magistracy now has slaves (no, really, check the back of the book), for whatever ungody reason, and nobody seems to care about that
Meanwhile the Canopians fellate themselves about being a "true democracy"
>>44408185
Atlas II, Atlas III, AS7-S, AS7-S2, AS8-D.
The -K series is a bit unfortunate.
>>44407503
If you like a faction then it should win. If you don't, then it should lose. Always and forever.
Realistically though what gets people pissy is if a faction wins out of nowhere (see: Xin Sheng, where the Hopeless Battle Syndrome CCAF magically becomes the best-trained and motivated force overnight) or does nothing but win in 99.9999999% of cases (ie, the Ghost Bears).
>>44406785
>But on another note, can someone explain the Taurian "No Rommels" thing?
As I said a few threads back, the first printing of TR 3025 randomly gave the Taurians the ability to build the new Hatchetman (literally designed by a fucking polymath genius and only produced because the two most powerful Houses were pouring their resources into it) and the Rommel/Patton (big news because it was a new fusion-powered tank in an era where everyone else was ripping fusion engines out of vehicles to power their 'Mechs and ASF).
Neither made any sense for the Concordat to be building- they're the sworn enemies of a faction that was getting the Rommel, Patton, and Hatchetman through legitimate means- but because Taurian fans are convinced that their nation has a heavier infrastructure than the Lyrans (because the Inner Sphere In Flames rules say so) and they're like super literate and shit they should be able to do better than the Lyrans and Suns.
>>44406310
The Taurian Concordat was written as wasting what resources it had on building outdated fortifications under Thomas Calderon.
The Mariks didn't build as much as they could have because so much of their production was going to the Suns, Dracs, and Lyrans after Outreach.
I get being worked up about how Xin Sheng has rubbed off on the Canopians, but really what happened to the Concordat after they tried to rumble with the Suns in the Civil War is what you'd expect to happen to a Periphery nation trying it on with a Great House.
>>44408620
>but really what happened to the Concordat after
He's pretty clearly talking about before.
>>44408620
>Neither made any sense for the Concordat to be building- they're the sworn enemies of a faction
I hope I don't earn a kneejerk "you're a taurianfag" reaction but I can see why such a sale would make sense. Their "sworn enemies" status is pretty one-sided, and the Lyrans like to sell things to make money, up to and including production rights.
Now technically speaking, and with the dates involved, I agree 3025 would be far too early.
Never played Inner Sphere In Flames. What's the story with that and infrastructure?
Knowing /btg/ this has probably been done to death, but I prefer to ask realists here instead of the Medron pack on the OF.
Say you're Jeff Calderon and you don't die in the Detroit Conference.
How would you rule the Concordat and what would your policies be towards your neighbors and with domestic security and military-industrial development?
Narn cruiser for NEA.
>>44408657
When it was wasting its resources preparing for a FedSuns invasion that was never going to happen?
>>44408699
>I hope I don't earn a kneejerk "you're a taurianfag" reaction but I can see why such a sale would make sense.
But not to a sworn enemy of what was then their own nation. The FedCom selling some of its newest and best equipment to its enemies doesn't make much sense at all. Once Katherine is in charge and just to spite her brother? Yeah, sure, and that's exactly what did happen.
>Never played Inner Sphere In Flames. What's the story with that and infrastructure?
The rules only cared about (then-known) factory worlds, based on what Objective Raids said, not how good a given factory world was or what it produced. Thus, Hesperus II is worth just as much as any other factory world and planets that have just Vehicle factories are worth as much as those that have 'Mech factories.
It also doesn't put a limit on what unit types you can use your factories to build, so not only can the Taurians out-produce the Lyrans, they can shit out WarShips faster than anyone else too.
This has literally been used to argue that the Concordat is the most heavily industrialised and most industrially powerful of all the BT factions, and that it should have the largest and best military to go along with the largest and best WarShip fleet.
>>44408740
Jeffrey Calderon was in favour of the Trinity Alliance. However he probably would have demanded more in return for joining it than Shraplen did.
He hires the Uruk-hai instead of using them as causus belli with the Suns.
The Jihad plotline or something like it is probably inevitable though. The Taurian state as a whole, not to mention its military, leans much more towards the Shraplen/Tharn end of the spectrum than the Jeffrey Calderon/Cham Kithrong end. So either there's a coup or the WoB whacks Jeffrey and you get to about the same end point.
>>44408799
>But not to a sworn enemy of what was then their own nation.
The Lyran state wasn't part of the FedCom until after the war of '39. They were close allies but that doesn't really stop businessmen from making sales. Does the Lyran government have to underwrite every sale to begin with?
And one more, the "sworn enemy" thing was pretty one sided. The Davions didn't give the Taurians a bare thought.
>>44408847
>The Taurian state as a whole, not to mention its military
Is that really even true or is it just fan perception? The news articles in HBMPS suggest Taurian people and even military members were more pragmatic and stubborn towards government, opposing Thomas Calderon's activities after it became obvious there was no threat from Davion and forcing Shraplen to basically have to entice them into believing there was a war before it started.
Stands to reason they as practical as other humans and just got dragged into the mess by their leaders, same as other states.
>>44408858
>The Lyran state wasn't part of the FedCom until after the war of '39.
I don't even know where to begin with this. There's a difference between the official merger date and when the FedCom starts acting like one nation, which happens as soon as Hanse accepts Katherine's proposal.
>>44408915
>Is that really even true
Yes. Being a Taurian means you have to take a paranoia of the Suns as a character trait straight off the bat.
In those articles the Taurians are unhappy with the Government not because of what it's doing (which they initially supported) but because it hasn't worked out in their favour.
The most telling part is when Cham Kithrong creates the Protectorate most of the Concordat responds with a resounding "lolnope."
>>44409094
>Katherine's
Katrina, derp. Neeed more coffee.
>>44408915
>Is that really even true
No. Character traits in RPGs for flavor, it's demonstrably false. And you'd have to be a retard of the highest order to apply a character trait to billions of people anyway.
>>44409094
>I don't even know where to begin with this.
Answering the questions involved would be a start, as well as not pretending that their alliance meant they acted as one nation before Katrina's retirement.
>>44409094
>In those articles the Taurians are unhappy with the Government not because of what it's doing (which they initially supported) but because it hasn't worked out in their favour.
That claim doesn't even make sense. Regardless of whether they were persuaded to support it at first, they are written as being unhappy with what the government is doing and debating it fiercely. "Worked out in their favour" sounds like bullshit.
>The most telling part is when Cham Kithrong creates the Protectorate most of the Concordat responds with a resounding "lolnope."
Not all disobedience or dissent is secession, anon. I hope you're able to realize this.
>>44409164
>No. Character traits in RPGs for flavor, it's demonstrably false. And you'd have to be a retard of the highest order to apply a character trait to billions of people anyway.
>he hasn't seen all the times people have insisted that the Slow Learner trait of Clan characters is intended to represent them not learning from the IS applying non-Clan tactics to battle and making the same mistakes over and over
That aside, you're placing the cart before the horse on that one. Taurian characters get the Paranoia quirk because the nation has been written as being unreasonably and unjustifiably fearful of the Suns as a defining character trait from Periphery 1e onwards. They've always been like that in the fluff, that just gives them some crunch to reflect it.
>>44409225
And yet the fluff also presents Taurian characters without that quirk, and new articles showing Taurians dissenting over a Davion focus.
Hence why it's false and really kind of stupid to cite an RPG trait done for a player's character to have flavor as existing 100% across a population of billions. Yeesh.
Next you'll tell me the Taurians should have a warship fleet since Periphery 1e references shipyards and industrial nonsense.
>>44409177
>Answering the questions involved would be a start, as well as not pretending that their alliance meant they acted as one nation before Katrina's retirement.
OK. The answer would be "no, you're wrong." And just one demonstration of that would be the way the Lyrans bailed out the Suns economically after the 4th SW, precisely because they did view themselves as one nation and acted accordingly.
>>44409215
>That claim doesn't even make sense.
>Start to type response
>Realise so much of this sounds familiar
>On hunch check the official forums, pic related
Yeah, no. Go jerk off about how awesome the Concordat is if you want, it's pretty evident that what the books have to say about it is going to have no impact on what you want to believe or claim.
>>44391319
>with a quadruple amputee MD pilot stuck in them and directly wired to all the controls
who shits in their mech?
>>44409317
>singular answer to questions without claims
>"the lyrans helped their allies economically so they were one nation even though they weren't so you're wrong"
Ok, try answering without your headcanon or just don't bother.
>>44409317
Now THAT'S fucking pathetic.
>get refuted
>cry "Medron!" when it has no relevance
I think I'll jerk off with your tears for lube as I chuckle at your lack of reading comprehension. If you choose to act like a childish sperg because I cite fluff and you can only fall back on an RPG character trait, power to you.
If irrationally crying Medron after citing the Periphery 1e like him was your desired endgame, well done, you baited me well.
>>44407342
noob here: MoC?
>>44409460
Magistracy of Canopus. The sex fetish faction.
>>44409317
>Go jerk off about how awesome the Concordat is
Is this a serious response? Nothing in his posts made the Concordat out to be awesome.
>pointing out not all Taurians are paranoid towards House Davion since the fluff presents examples is now considered being Medron Pryde
We've reached critical autism levels.
>>44409402
>I demand you cite sources for well-known facts so that I can ignore those along with everything else you've said and keep calling you a liar
>>44409452
>even though I'm posting exactly like Medron Pryde I'm not Medron Pryde
You may or may not be Medron Pryde. However, you're acting exactly like he does and making the same bullshit arguments he does, so it really doesn't matter whether you are him or not. The result has been the same either way.
>>44409401
I think there's art in Necromo Nightmare where they're putting an MD operator into his ride. It makes it look like they can be removed (albeit with some faffing about to get that done) and removable cyberlimbs would give the pilots their extremities back while out of their Proto.
The impression I got was that the ones in NN were only stuck in their protos because of the effects of the zombie plague, not because there was no other option.
>>44409536
Just stop shitposting.
>>44409536
>However, you're acting exactly like he does and making the same bullshit arguments he does
Fuck you're a desperate cunt to try and rewrite the debate since you can't refute fluff.
>>44409536
Your headcanon isn't full of well-known facts. The fact is you're wrong but keep making your nonsense arguments.
>>44409536
>You may or may not be Medron Pryde
I can't fathom how stupid someone would have to be to say that because another anon points out not all of a faction's characters are clones and instead have differing views.
There's literally nothing in any of the posts boosting the Taurian Concordat in any way militarily, industrially, etc, but we come to someone being so buttblasted that they entertain the idea their debate opponent must be an OF boogeyman.
New /btg/ character trait: quirk/paranoid (Medron Pryde)
>>44409589
...
That's what literally happened.
Medron claims it would make sense for the Lyrans to sell the Concordat Hathcetmans, Rommels, and Pattons. So has this anon.
Medron claims that despite reams and reams of fluff to contrary, that the Taurian Concordat does not have an unreasonable fear of the Federated Suns. So does this anon.
Medron demands cites for things that are well known. If you do provide them (admittedly, I didn't bother because I have Taurian fatigue) he says you're still lying and that he's right any way.
There is no functional difference between this anon's behaviour and what Medron would be doing.
Now, are there Taurian characters who aren't completely shitballs insane and ready for the inevitable Davion invasion of doom? Yes. They are in a definite minority. Trying to use them to argue that the Concordat as a whole is mostly like that is a specious argument at best.
Appeals to HB: MPS as to the unpopularity of the attack on the Suns are likewise specious, since it ignores the way Shraplen has been doing things that are unpopular with the populace for a long time. Their disapproval of the invasions of the Suns is part of a longer pattern, starting with him joining the Trinity Alliance that Jeffrey was working towards as well. Those attacks were on the back of the unpopular Trinity Alliance and the even less popular decision to send TDF units to the Capellans in order to conquer the St. Ives Compact, not a single act divorced from an overall narrative.
>>44409729
>That's what literally happened.
Don't bullshit when we can all see the conversation.
>>44409729
>That's what literally happened
Yeah nah, you're a desperate cunt.
Crying Medron only underscores it.
Let's move past the moron looking for OF boogeymen and get the thread back on track.
>Favorite Jihad era mech or mech/variant
>Favorite WoB skullduggery during the Jihad
>Favorite part ofthe Necromo nightmare
Go!
>>44409729
>Medron claims it would make sense for the Lyrans to sell the Concordat Hathcetmans, Rommels, and Pattons. So has this anon.
Since the Lyrans did then they must be Medron too. EVERYONE is Medron!
You're Medron, I'm Medron, NEA is double Medron.But really you come off as a disingenuous cunt.
>>44409765
>it would make sense for the Lyrans to sell the Concordat the stuff I want them to have: >>44408699, >>44408858
>The Concordat isn't written as being afraid of the Suns >>44408915, >>44409164
>buh buh buh but none of that happened, you lying liar who lies
wat
Look, just to be clear I'm not saying the Concordat is stuffed to the gills with dribbling retards and should never have anything nice happen to it ever.
I'm saying that it's long been depicted as afraid of a Suns attack that is never going to come, that people like Cham Kithrong and Hadji Doru are far less common than the Grover Shraplens, Boris Tharns, Maxwell Albrittens and the like, and that it doesn't make sense for the Concordat to have native production of highly advanced, brand-new designs of Inner Sphere origin from a state they're an avowed enemy of, at least not initially.
None of that's headcannon, all of it is explicitly stated in a number of places.
>>44409901
>>44408699
>I hope I don't earn a kneejerk "you're a taurianfag" reaction but I can see why such a sale would make sense. Their "sworn enemies" status is pretty one-sided, and the Lyrans like to sell things to make money, up to and including production rights.
>Now technically speaking, and with the dates involved, I agree 3025 would be far too early.
This makes sense, and he agrees that Medron is wrong about the date. Since it eventually happens he's right.
>>44408858
>The Lyran state wasn't part of the FedCom until after the war of '39.
This is canon.
>>44408915
This is accurate. They're humans, and humans have varying views.
>>44409164
>No. Character traits in RPGs for flavor, it's demonstrably false. And you'd have to be a retard of the highest order to apply a character trait to billions of people anyway.
This much is true. You would have to be a retard to apply a character trait (that the fluff does demonstrate isn't universal) to everyone.
So yeah, you're a bullshitting liar.
If you want to be taken seriously next time, don't stoop to trying to rewrite your opponent's argument or paint them as an OF character because your own argument falls flat.
>>44409901
No one buys your headcanon. Please just stop posting.
>>44409901
>Look, just to be clear I'm not saying the Concordat is stuffed to the gills with dribbling retards and should never have anything nice happen to it ever.
Horsecock.
You've been here playing the butthurt anti-taurian game for a year or more and that's EXACTLY what you're saying.
You're all "the taurians loose because they suck and I and everybody hate them. If you don't think they suck, you're medron pryde. They don't suck because fiat but even if they did they deserve it"
What die medron pryde DO to you, anon?
>>44409901
>>it would make sense for the Lyrans to sell the Concordat the stuff I want them to have
That's some serious butthurt you have there to rewrite my post, you slanderous faggot.
>thread about game about giant robots
>people talking about factions of said game instead of giant robots
>>44410007
space politics are serious business
If we're going to argue can we at least debate whether the WoB was in the wrong or not?
And whether their strike on the Clan homeworlds would have succeeded?
>>44410054
So this then?
https://youtu.be/wSevB3nDeGc
>>44410100
I never played TF2 so I dunno.
>>44409826
>>Favorite Jihad era mech or mech/variant
Plasma rifle Faf is pretty hilarious.
>>44410134
grog here, never used plasma rifles yet. how are they?
>>44410145
They're AC/10s that weigh 6 tons, generate ten heat, don't have explosive ammo, and hilariously fuck up whatever they hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXpb2TY_P7o
What would the Ryuki BA be armed with?
>>44410169
not /m/
>>44410158
neat. reading up on it i'm kind of surprised it was the cappies that developed them. lacking the industrial base or educated population of the fedsuns, lyrans or fwl they really seemed to catch up and make a lot of stuff really quickly.
>>44410145
The Rifles are pretty good. Basically mixes Large Laser range with PPC heat and damage for the firing unit, with added heat for the target. Extra brutal on vehicles and infantry. IIRC a good choice against DropShips and above since they don't track heat in the conventional way, so take extra damage like vees and infantry.
If you're redesigning something from 3025 for the 3067+ era, a Plasma Rifle is worth looking at on anything that already has a PPC or Large Laser.
Plasma Cannons are a bit shit though. Extra heat on the target, extra range, but deal no innate damage.
I often think that the damage and heat for the Cannons and Rifles should be reversed, the Clans saying they want the weapon to hurt the enemy even if it means applying less heat while the Capellans were like "MOAR HEAT, WHO CARES ABOUT DAMAGE, WAR CRIMES FOR XIN SHENG!"
Rate my 'mech company and characters.
>>44410271
Plasma cannons are fun against light bulbs. You'll understand why there's an external heat cap, every game could be won using plasma cannons only
>>44410506
Lightbulbs just... don't fire one of their weapons. A Hellstar shooting off three cERPPCs instead of four is still the equivalent to a 4/6 Thunder Hawk.
Nah, they're best against something rocking only the ten free sinks, preferably singles and preferably with explosive ammunition that you can light up. Plasma... well, I suppose I've only ever used rifles because fuck clantech, but plasma rifles are evil against introtech designs like the Crusader or Warhammer.
>>44410577
Pretty much this.
>>44410506
I don't so much have a problem with an external heat cap as 15 being a bit on the low side for it to really make heat-dealing weapons all that effective. Some cap is fine, you don't really want to get spammed with heat weapons and have your 'Mech shut down for the next five turns while it works off the heat, but by the same token "oh, well I just won't fire an ER PPC/ER Large Laser then" is a bit lacklustre.
20 external heat would be a bit more challenging to overcome.
I dunno. I just miss the days when being hit with an Inferno missile meant you had to be careful. And not just for that turn, but the next two as well.
>>44410577
Tbqh my experience with plasma cannons was against one of the new Black Knights, that are very undersinked
>>44410781
Yeah, against already undersunk flashbulbs, it does cut their firepower down to unacceptable levels, yeah.
But the new Black Knight kinda sucks anyways. And it killed the Black Knight's looks. And it cut off its hands. And it changed the arm the PPC was on.
>>44407342
>hardcore institutional sexism (like, the female nobility is legally permitted to rape literally anybody they want)
What shitty fanfic is this from? I mean if it's really in Periphery 1E I wouldn't be shocked, that book has some really crazy shit that is mostly considered to be gone from the setting even if not specifically retconned.
Yes, there is sexism in the MoC, there's a rank gap in military between men and women and a glass ceiling against men in Canopian-based companies (all five of them). That's about as bad as it gets though. Yeah, it's unrealistic in a few ways, but it's just a quirk rather than their one defining characteristic.
>>44411264
it's in every periphery book, actually
to quote HB:MPS "Among the many privileges of Canopian nobles are... the right
of noblewomen to choose their own mates, who cannot refuse under Canopian law"
that sounds pretty rapey to me, man
[Handbook: Major Periphery States Page 79-80]
>>44410054
The Blakist strike on the Clans would have been as setup for failure as the Clan invasion was despite /btg/ screaming muh furfag genocide about it.
Nobody trusts the WoB or each other, Steiner and Davion are incapable of offering much, Liao has no reason to participate while there would be a lot of discontent from Marik over what's seen as a Steiner problem. Kurita would be hard pressed against the Bears, Comstar would say no as would the Periphery.
On the other hand, the Crusader clans are begging for a reason to restart the invasion and the Wardens wouldn't be able to ignore the threat of a Clan genocide.
>>44409826
Nuclear Grand Titan
Fake Highlanders (literally a scottish guy on the comms)
The guy who played it with a squad of Ebon Magistrate catgirls.
>>44411533
>Fake Highlanders (literally a scottish guy on the comms)
Which SB was this in?
