How much of a warning should PCs have when a seemingly nameless, unremarkable mook is actually a puissant, elite warrior more than a match for any hero?
>>44365400
They'll just read it in the the adventure module and look it up in the monsterbook, silly.
>>44365400
It have a cape and attacks alone. that's more than enough, if they have a bit of intelligence they'll understand
>>44365400
>Drops shield and blaster
>Decides to charge heard first against a lightsaber
Balls of durasteel
People keep talking this bit up but I just thought it was fucking retarded.
It's hilarious that this wasn't Captain Phasma. She did fuck all and literally got dropped in the trash at the end, and some rando stormtrooper is the OG on the villain side.
>>44365865
This. Why was that bitch even in the movie? Was it to sell toys?
>>44365950
Both Captain Phasma and this fucking guy >>44365400 were in the movie to sell toys, yes. Have you seen how much merch you can get of either of them?
>>44365950
>Was it to sell toys?
Yes.
>>44365950
>>44365974
It's called a repaint.
>>44365950
>>44365865
Probably setting up for the next SW
>>44365400
The way he tosses away his blaster and shield gets me every time
>>44365865
>8 hours were cut from the movie
she was probably in those
>>44366091
I'm almost certain that Poe and the Space battle got a fuckton cut out as well
>Oh god, my stormtrooper friend has died, I'm going to rethink my life and kill more stormtroopers in the way
Finns character was pretty ok, actually the best from the new characters, but his defection made no sense.
Poe seems like a nice guy, but he didn't have much screen time.
Rey is over the top perfect at everything she does even if it's the first time ever she does it, don't want to say mary sue, but srly, she's bordering sueism, they overdid the strong female character.
>>44365400
>elite warrior
>hero
You dumb motherfuckers, it's a fucking slightly less-shit storm trooper versus a total nub storm trooper who PTSD"d out during his very first battle. The fucking laser-baton guy is just in there to sell merchandise. The only reason Finn took as long to get merc'd by Kylo Ren was because Ren was already injured. The only reason Rey didn't get beat instantly was the same reason Luke didn't get beat instantly by Vader in 5: because he never intended to kill her (as made evident by his join the dark side cuz ur cute speech).
Jesus, you people are impressed by anything.
In interest of keeping this from turning into another thread about sucking the cock of the riot trooper, I usually give some hint that a more elite warrior is among regular mooks.
It really depends on the type of elite warrior it is. A rogue might go out of way to look more like his fellows, while a exceptionally powerful holy warrior might be covered in more signs of his deity and divine like armor. Might call for checks in battle to notice the first, while let them know just by sight with the later.
>>44366175
Quite wrong, m8. He's been statted and everything
http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/24742/tr-8r--hero-of-the-first-order
>>44365400
>make a perception check
>you notice your opponent's uniform has red shoulder pads
>>44366143
>Strong Female Character
But she has no character at all
>>44366225
'muh jakku' is her character
>>44366143
Why are you posting this?
>>44366143
I wish people would stop with the whole oh he just goes along and happily kills stormtroopers, and completely ignore that in almost every situation they started it by trying to kill him first and he is just defending himself.
When they stealt he tie fighter the storm troopers start shooting at it, and he shoots back in defence, while they flee to planet he shoots down the missiles then the ships chasing him shooting missiles at them.
Then at the planet I believe that is right after he just witness them nuking a whole system via doom beam and kidnapping his waifu I mean come on people
>>44365950
Basing off the number of interviews that actress is getting, she's gonna be a major player in the next 2 movies,
>>44365400
Only as much as is realistic. Imply it through the actions/behavior/words of their allies, possibly, or possibly some different uniform/equipment to imply either higher rank or more luck in equipping themselves. Beyond that, let them find out the hard way.
>>44365400
>"I just wanted to do the right thing"
>continues killing his former comrades
>>44366175
Actually, it's becauseRey isn't even a PC: she's actually the BBEG and is scripted to turn soon.
>>44366143
>but his defection made no sense
I was under the assumption that the indoctrination process for Stormtroopers wasn't completely effective on him, which was why Captain Toy Repaint sent him to report for reeducation.
But that's under the assumption that the indoctrination process is able to get a stormtrooper from "Fuck your shit" to "Ill suck the First Order's dick" with some level of consistency.
>>44366377
I was trying to make a joke, I know he was only defending himself. Still, his defection doesn't make much sense, if he was brainwashed to be a loyal soldier of the order how did he override it?
>>44366551He's force sensitive.
>>44365400
None, fuck PCs
>>44366570
stop
no
pls
>>44366570
Aren't all Force sensitives? if they get push by the Force don't they feel it?
>>44366583
Why would that even be bad? It would certainly justify him swinging around a lightsaber effectively.
Hell, maybe they're all force sensitive.
>>44366478
Nah, Supreme Leader Plagueis is still the BBEG.Rey has to make do with being a high-ranking lieutenant.
>>44365400
Is that guy secretly a Sith or is that just a badass Stormtrooper with some kind of electro-baton-spear?
>>44366551
why do you assume he was that brainwashed, we have NO fucking clue what goes into the First Orders conditioning, all we know is he was taken as a kid that is it. Maybe they didnt really brainwash him that much, maybe hes naturally resistant to brainwashing, maybe hed seen some other shit. His defecting wasnt fleshed out enough to be either flimsy or solid, its just there.
>>44366551
I assume there are a few other storm troopers who want to defect. Out of those, a smaller amount of the balls to actually defect. And out of those, an even smaller amount get the chance to actually defect, as Finn did with the rebel pilot. And out of THOSE, plenty just don't make it and get shot.
>>44366175
It's because all the other villains suck. Kylo is a whiny bitch, Grand Moff Ginger is laughable, Phasma gets "into the trash she goes" and Snokes' job seems to be mostly to berate the first two. TR-8R was a villain that actually seemed to buckle down and at least try and get shit done.
>>44366091
Source on that claim?
Why write a 10 and a half hour script for an at most 3 hour project?
>TFW you realize you gave your BBEG a fucking terrible name
Man, I know names can seem good at first but turn out to be actually terrible, but come the fuck on. Who ever thought that Snoke was a good name for the fucking main villain of the trilogy?
Snoke sounds like some ill-defined sex act, a sporty vehicle they're trying to sell to the cool kids, or possibly some kind of a drug.
Just... fuck. Snoke. Seriously. Snoke.
>>44365400
Build him up. Give him a unique weapon and maybe a modified costume.
>>44367527
He'll probably drop it when it's revealed he's actuallyPlagueis.
Besides, snoke and sheev make for good pottery.
>>44367527
Hey man, Star Wars is full of great names. Darth Andeddu is totally a brilliant name for an immortal sith-lich.
>>44367600
>they just scrambled undead
Fuck
>>44367527
Snoke weed every day.
>>44366608
>Hell, maybe they're all force sensitive.
Midichlorians have been pissing about for long enough.
>>44367646
>scrambled
Not even that. It's like a Japanese guy trying to say undead.
>>44365400
We actually had this happen by accident once.
>During a mission, our party gets ambushed by a commando unit of mooks
>We mop them up pretty easily, with one exception
>One chucklefuck in the back with shock-gauntlets
>We all miss when we attack him during the opening round slaughter
>He attacks me, nat 20.
>Being the tanky front-line tough guy, I take offense and attack him again
>Miss
>Party continuing to take care of the rest
>Mook grapples me
>Miss trying to get him again
>Mook fucking suplexes me next round
>Party turns around, having finished off the others, and try to kill him
>Most miss, other do minimal damage
>Mook lets go of me and shoots the others, nat 20. Nearly kills our tech-qizard
>I finally smack him upside the head and knock him out
>Instead of killing him, we take him prisoner and basically press-gang him into our mercenary crew
>>44365819
And he would have won too if Han Solo hadn't taken that cheap shot.
>>44365400
>stormtroopers
>mooks
But they are elite soldiers.
That's like calling the nazi /ss/ a buncha grunts or the american marines fresh recruits.
Fuck, why are the empires actual fighting force so underrepresented?
>>44367526
Same reason some people make 70+ card decks for mtg: They don't know what they are doing.
>>44367968
I would hate to see what their regular soldiers are like then.
>>44367968
>>44368222
The infantry units of the Imperial Army weren't often used in direct offensive action. They were mostly a defensive garrison force. Stormtroopers, with support from IA vehicle/walker units, made up the Empire's typical assault forces. Once they had finished and moved on, the Army's infantry units would be brought in to hold the ground.
>>44367904
I fucking love when this kind of thing happens, especially by accident. Did your GM play along and develop him into a proper NPC? If so, good on him.
>>44367526
It's fairly common to write lots of stuff, then cut out whatever doesn't work. That 8 hour figure may well include several scenes that were cut because if they were still in, they'd be contradicted by/redundant because of scenes that were in the movie.
>>44367600
>Maladi
>Venamis
>Tenebrous
Actually, that last one is cool.
>Playing an "alternate history" version of a previous campaign we played
>I.E. we were playing the bad guys this time
>End up getting into a position where our good guy PC's from last campaign are going to fight us
>Shit is so on
>Set up an ambush inside our own base, prepare for their assault
>One of our own NPC mook allies ends up slaughtering the most hard to kill good guy with a crit
>Basically curb-stomp ourselves
>>44368660
>>One of our own NPC mook allies ends up slaughtering the most hard to kill good guy with a crit
Did he get a promotion?
>>44365400
Thirty years from now that actor is going to be watching this movie with his grandchildren and say, "I was that guy."
>>44367347
You know how in an infantry platoon there's the guy who has to hump the SMAW, just in case? Because some faggot sand-farmer terrorist murdered our beloved Emperor, now every stormtrooper platoon has the guy who has to hump the anti-Jedi stick.
>>44368957
that puts a whole different spin on it
>be club trooper
>regular deployment to raid some mercenary shitbag hovel
>notice some retard waving a glowstick around
>finally.png
>>44369170
I like better the idea he was just really passionate about his job, and chose to carry that thing in case some day, SOME DAY, he might meet a Jedi.
His comrades all laughed at him, Luke is gone, there hasn't been a Jedi threat for years. But TR-8R waits, and he walks softly, and he carries his big stick. Until one day..
>Oh shit is that a Jedi?
>HERE WE FUCKING GO.jpg
>>44365851
this.
movie was shit.
>>44368957
>>44369170
>>44369303
But why such a strange, tonfa-like design?
>>44369370
Tonfas are badass, fit the police theme as well.
>>44369303
>yfw he would've won
My personal favorite was that he knew Finn, and is horrified by his treason.
>>44369370
Because he wanted to be known as the guy who beat down a Jedi with an electric tonfa.
>>44365991
I was actually all over the Transformers wiki yesterday. They refer to such "repaints" as redecos.
>>44365400
I just went on my first Shadowrun this week. We were doing an arms deal with some Russian mafia guys that got crashed by Triads. There were 4 runners in our group plus the Johnson and like 6 Russian NPC's including two tough looking and heavily armed trolls.
The regular Triads weren't that tough on their own, but one was a Lieutenant (which none of our characters actually knew). Guy was so cybered out that he was dodging every shot the PC's took at him and making crazy attack rolls from a crazy distance. He even managed to shrug off a grenade I chucked at his feet.
It probably wouldn't have been so bad, but the GM was getting crazy lucky rolls with him. It eventually got so bad that the two NPC trolls engaged him in melee while the PC's engaged and fired on him from the sides. Fucker still managed to dodge and/or block all the attacks from the trolls and kill both of them. We only managed to incapacitate him after we'd killed literally everyone else and one of our guys spammed flashbangs at him.
tl;dr: We didn't get any warning about this dude except for metaknowledge, and he almost wrecked our shit more than once. Fun run though, very tense.
>>44367526
It's part of the writing process: make it as complete as you can, cut everything that isn't essential, and then repurpose what you've cut in a later production.
>>44365950
Because Rey is her and Luke's daughter.
>>44368957
Actually, the new source material says that all First Order stormtroopers are actually given counter-Jedi training. First Order is apparently paranoid as fuck about the fucking space wizard samurai, and I suppose rightfully so. The weapon, however, is just riot dispersal gear, normally used with the shield in the form of non-lethal super cops.
>>44369770
Must not be very effective anti-Jedi training.
>>44365400
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/new-skills/knowledge-martial-int-trained-only
It's a Knowledge (Martial) check with a DC of 20 to recognize prominent elite warriors. I would rule it as DC 15 to know warning signs like carrying a special baton.
>>44366143
>Rey is over the top perfect at everything she does even if it's the first time ever she does it, don't want to say mary sue, but srly, she's bordering sueism
A Mary Sue isn't just an overly competent character, it's also an author self insert. I don't really feel like that applies here.
>>44368516
He sure as hell did. Him and my Blackguard both hit it off quite well, since we're both grizzled combat fighters and my Blackguard respects anyone who can suplex him like that.
>>44366225
This is the correct response
>>44365400
Only as much as that seemingly nameless, unremarkable mook desires to give them.
It might also introduce your PCs to the other definition of discretion (y'know, the one about good judgment).
>>44367646
Mind fucking BLOWN
>>44370521
>it's also an author self insert
Not necessarily. There's a ven diagram here, and the two often (but not always) overlap.
Rey does seem to be bordering sueism a bit, but in a relatively low key way. Perhaps the next movie will display some character flaws for her and round her out some.
>>44367600
Yeah, Darth Evilbad is my fav
>>44367527
Seeing how the Emperor's name was Sheev, I think that we are having a theme here. The big bad guys are just insecure about their stupid names.
Stupid question. All you need is luck.
See the players chain some bad rolls and th GM roll good and you'll see even the weakest mook become the party's worst nightmare
>>44372520
I prefer Darth Badong
>>44373254
True that.
>>44372512
It's so nice seeing /tg/ suffer the revelation that every star wars protagonist has always been a borderline Sue
Really like Finn as the viewpoint character. "Hi up until three days ago i was a serial number, what the hell is this"
>>44370536
Fuck yeah, bro.
>>44368881And his grandchildren will look to him in awe and say "You were the best part of the movie."
>>44365819
Tr8r kills enemies in glorious single combat
>>44375400
>"Hi up until three days ago i was a serial number, what the hell is this"
until they start giving him knowledge about legends and myths so they can make more references. Maybe it's all explained in a novel tie-in or something.
I do wish they gave us more time with finn in general, so his leaving could have a bit more weight.
>>44375920
No it takes literally half a minute of critical thinking to realise that of course Finn knows about Han Solo, because all First Order troopers have a dossier of Personae Non Grata #1 (Luke Skywalker), #2 (Leia Organa) and #3 (Han Solo) drilled into them as part of their indoctrination.
>>44367947
>combat
>cheap shot
>>44375400
>It's so nice seeing /tg/ suffer the revelation that every star wars protagonist has always been a borderline Sue
I wonder when /tv/ will suffer the revelation that TV Tropes memes are not a good way to examine stories.
>>44369370
Because using a weapon shaped like a police baton gives you a +1 modifier for all rolls against a black man.
>>44365400
>This topic and all the panning of TFA
Goddamn /tg/ you make me proud. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because everyone is saying how good it was and I just can't see it.
>>44378910
I liked Kylo Ren. Having the inevitable stand-in for Darth Vader be someone consciously trying to be Darth Vader- and failing- is just so appropriate that it almost made up for the rest of the movie's flaws for me.
But that's just my opinion.
>>44365400
>How much of a warning should PCs have when a seemingly nameless, unremarkable mook is actually a puissant, elite warrior more than a match for any hero?
None at all- it's supposed to have impact.
>>44379061
What's appropriate about that?
>>44367682
It'd be "andeddo," then. There's no "du" in Japanese.
>>44379148
>>44379148
He's referencing how Ren's desperate attempt to be like Vader is a pretty good summing up of how the entire movie tries to live up to the OT but just doesn't quite make it
>>44379178
But how does that make the movie better?
>>44379242
Pottery.
>>44378910
Fresh pasta courtesy of a post on /tv/.
Anybody else think Finn was kind of a dick?
>stormtroopers land in village
>run out of gun boats
>villagers fire
>stormtroopers fire
>Finn won't shoot.
Later
>Finn and Po escaping in tie fighter
>Finn blasts the shit out of his former allies with no hesitation.
TR-8R was right.
>>44379505
>you are racist if you don't like it!
Fuck off. Finn was the strongest character, but it's like winning the special olympics. Pacing was awful, no tension, non sensical plot, Harrison Ford only looked like he was happy when he was getting a lightsaber shoved into him and there was no villain. Kylo Ren is shit, he's not fucking threatening.
>>44379730
At least visit /tv/.
>>44379730
>that special olympics
>that "no you"
I think you're trolling yourself at this point.
>>44365400
>using weapons you don't have proficiency in
You deserved that ass-whooping Finn.
>>44379663
>Be taken from family as toddler
>They indoctrinated you to be killing-machine/puppet for two decades
>...then made you clean the fucking toilets
>Never mind we have a personnel shortage, you get to fight and die after all!
>On fucking Jakku
>You're getting shot at
>That guy you sorta knew got shot
>Shit he's dying, that could be you!
>All these people could be you, you don't want to do this any more
>You have sand in your armor
>You don't even LIKE blowing up planets
>Your programming fractures under the stress of all this shit
>They're not gonna let you stop this shit, you need to run
>All these motherfuckers want to stop you or kill you now
>Fuck you guys, my name's Finn now!
>>44369370
Design allows it to be useful as a defensive precaution if needed as well as gain momentum on a swing by spinning it. Also different grips for different uses.
>>44375920
>until they start giving him knowledge about legends and myths so they can make more references
>agents involved in the destruction of 2 massive battle stations and directly involved in the fall of the Empire
>myths and legends that Empire Remnants wouldn't know
Jesus Christ dude, this is like thinking Osama bin Ladin would be a mythical figure in 20 years with the DHS.
They're literally there because of said persons causing a massive catastrophe.
>>44380512
>a dirt-grubbing scavenger on backwater planet thinks the last Jedi knight who supposedly broke the Empire might be a myth
>GUYS NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT LUKE!
Internet people just work like that, try not to let it get to you.
>>44374698
darth badonk.i'd post the pic but i'd get b&
>>44380475
Plus it looks pretty cool.
These guys ARE the successors to The Empire remember.
>>44380475
But is charging with the long end extended even a remotely effective grip?
>>44380864
Apparently so, when it's covered with electricity and magnetic shielding. Also, I guess it was to goad the enemy into going for the end rather than going for them or to get them to try and get away from the end, which would make sense, yes?
>>44380864
Your use of the word charging made me think that maybe you electrically charge the thing by spinning it.
>>44381073
Think it lets him lose the swing's momentum when he misses without following through with his body so he doesn't go off balance, like how he might if it were, say, a mace or hammer.
>>44381054
>>44381073
>>44381140
But if he holds the side handle while charging with the long end extended, then a solid hit stands to be deflected away because it pivots around.
Compare this to a thrust with a spear, which has no such chance of pivoting away.
>>44365400
Just have him scream "TRAITOR!" as soon as he sees the PCs.
>>44365678
This is depressingly accurate.
>>44381292
At the same time, though, it's unlikely since the enemy will try to not get hit by the glowing arcs of electricity that it has on that end, making them more likely to try and back away or deflect the weapon, putting them at disadvantage as they have to go on the defensive. Now, if they try countering the feint, it could still send them flying due to the energy it puts out, which seems to be pretty nasty to go against. Really, the main point of that tonfa is the force multiplier on that one end hits like a fucking train. I mean, did you see how far he flung Finn with a solid hit?
>>44365991
God you have no idea how angry it makes me that those are just repaints, because that mold is fucking amazing in terms of poseability and stability, and I fucking love the crazing early 90s decos.
>>44366551
He used to be brainwashed to be a loyal soldier of the order, but then they brainwashed him into defecting in order to get a better chance at the Rebellion or possibly Luke.
>>44367526
Simple. To sell special edition extended director's cut DVDs.
Lucas was only the beginning.
>>44381341
from now on this is actually an acceptable means of warning.
>>44370371
>Pathfinder Guard Story
Beat me too it.
I think that this guy >>44379093 has it right. Don't tell them, you want this to be a shock. But don't put the dude on the first wave though.
>>44381341 Alternatively something close to this could work. Have all of the enemies be completely normal at the start. If any player kills one with a crit/overkill/something especially powerful. Then have all the enemies flee in terror except for one who was right next to the fallen mook.
Give him one turn to crumble to his knees in shocked silence.
And then power him up with a shout for revenge.
Have a new statblock ready for the powered up mook that will actually be a semi tough fight. After two turns or 25% of his health being drained send reinforcements so he can't be focused down. We've seen protagonists rally forces with their bravery and sudden boosts of strength, why not let the enemies do it too?
>>44366530
Calling it now, this trilogy's ripoff of the carbonite scene will be Finn in some kind of reeducation chamber.
>>44365678
Do people actually use adventure modules? I've never played in a campaign that used one.
>>44369397
I wonder if enough fan support for TR-8R would result in him returning in one of the next movies, or at least the creation of some supplementary material? I'd even settle for a comic detailing his life before his fateful duel with Finn.
>>44383327
If he gets popular enough, it could happen. The movie hasn't even been out a week and he's already hit meme status.
>>44369303
>Oh shit is that a Jedi?
>HERE WE FUCKING GO.jpg
yes.
this.
i am ready!
>>44366608
Or being a stormtrooper, he's had some hand to hand combat training.
Heaven forbid we have a non-force user not be cannon fodder to walking plot armor.
>>44370286
Probably due to the lack of Jedi to practice on.
>>44367526
Shooting a scene is easy AF when you have all the props and are set up and everything.
You do know that films shoot every scene from different angles right ? Pretty sure the 8h counts that too.
>>44369348
Truth
>>44383696
I agree. I was happy to see another Star Wars movie but it was mediocre, if not less. Its obvious that it was just banging the nostalgia drum and trying to hook the newer generations than come up with something new or interesting.
But hey I suppose if it aint broke fix it till it is, at least thats whats this movie is suggesting re-hashing most of the same kind of themes and plots and what can one say, it still sells well.
>>44369582
But that's just sr...
>>44366583
Consider the following:
1) Ren definitely seems to focus on Finn after the massacre
2) The giant hologram says there has been an awakening, before Rey is ever shown on screen.
3) Finn somehow manages to shrug off the mental "reconditioning" almost immediately and absconds with Poe.
4) When Ren is informed of Poe's escape and that he had help, Ren instantly knows it was Finn.
5) When Finn and Rey are celebrating their escape and ask each other how they did it, they both say the same line, to the affect of "I don't know, I just did it."
6) When Starkiller Base ends the Republic, Finn is inside a ship loading cargo, and hears the multitudes screaming, similar to how Obi-won felt Alderaan's death.
One additional possible clue, I'm not too sure about. Phasma was built up to be this badass and she capitulates to Finn immediately. Why did she bring down the shields without even an argument? Even when informed that she is going to be tossed in a compactor, she doesn't put up a struggle. It could have been a mind trick, but that seems like kind of a stretch. It could also indicate that First Order has factions and it served Phasma's purposes to have Starkiller Base destroyed.
>>44385046
So you're saying it's going to be revealed he is actually Rey's long-lost brother, and that is why they instantly bonded?
>>44365678
>>44382688
I usually just take the mook and up its stats as needed when I need a secret elite. I give them all cool, unique flowing scarfs/capes and my group still hasn't caught onto this.
>>44385157
That...would just be retarded. I buy the force sensitivity, though. For a stormtrooper to have his shooting accuracy would take some sort of divine intervention.
>>44385046
Aren't there degrees of Force persuasion beneath outright "These Aren't The Droids You're Looking For"?
I was thinking the same thing when Kylo took notice of Finn and then instantly knew which Stormtrooper had betrayed them.
BUT, it might have just been that he was sensing Finn's "Crisis of Faith" on Jakku.
Then again, maybe what caused Finn's defection was the fact that FINN sensedBen Solo'sknowledge that what they were doing was wrong and felt the pull toward the Light Side that he was experiencing.
>>44366143
>Rey is over the top perfect at everything she does even if it's the first time ever she does it, don't want to say mary sue, but srly, she's bordering sueism, they overdid the strong female character.
She's no worse than Luke Skywalker.
>>44385555
The main thing that bothers me about Rey is her successfully using Force Persuade on James Bond without ever having seen it done.
>>44385555
Not really. Everything Luke was good at was either something he had was coached/supervised on or had learned during the movies, or had an explanation for that was more than "The Force!". Rey earns nothing she does, she's just naturally good at it because "The Force"!
>>44385555
She is way worse than Skywalker, He spent the first movie getting bailed out by Obi Wan and being mentored. Rey had Han as a mentor and was never saved because she never fucked up.
>>44385623
Nah. She gets lucky with a force persuade, in an extremely dire situation, and her natural athleticism and combat experience are easily attributable to her lifestyle, which is shown to be quite violent before being taken off Jakku. She doesn't go from being a moisture farmer to a master pilot making a near impossible bombing run.
>>44385598
Yeah but she had just had Kylo Ren all up in her head using The Force against her mind.
So basically she had just gotten a very intimate vie of Force/Brain interactions, and then fumblingly managed to use a mind trick on her guard.
Long story short, it's all Ren's fault.
>>44365400
I've had this happen once, completely unintentionally,
We were basically a powered armed force doing our thing. We're taking down this supply line and fighting the mooks, when the GM throws in a mook with some full heavy distinctive armor of the faction. Now keep in mind, for a fast power comparison, if the Mooks are Lv.1, and we're like, Lv.10, these armor guys are Lv.5 at BEST in terms of power scaling. TR-8R level.
He beat the living pigshit out of us.
It happened because of insanely good rolls, for so many rounds we had nearly 3/4ths of our team on back-way retreat to try to keep the line before we fought him to a standstill. Not a defeat, standstill.
We thought, hah, man, what was a fluke. When more of them arrived to backup a retreating NPC foe, we thought, cool, let's actually have a normal fight. There's three of them, there's six of us, we're way stronger.
They beat the *living pigshit out of us*
Again, great rolls. The GM was completely confused. Now, these weren't like critical successes, but worse; they were nice smooth low-end rolls, time after time after time. Hitting them was hard, they always tagged us, they bingo'd every resistance roll you threw at them, it was a drag-down slugfest. We won, but we were severely drained for the further fights.
It got absurd because it happened AGAIN after that! The third time wasn't as bad, but the guy made every single one of his MANY defense rolls because we all teamed up out of desperation; the GM had done it just for a laugh. He just threw one into a disparate enemy team and the fucker survived the entire fight. I'm talking like, this is a dude who is at best a Grunt+1, and he's rolling with a team clearly beyond his league.
The fourth time was the last. Game ended soon after. At the bottom of a military base, we faced a massive truck-sized door, which slowly opened... to reveal a single of our armored nemesii.
Only his armor was black.
We ran screaming before the fight even began.
>>44367349
> maybe hed seen some other shit
Well, he was sanitation...
>>44366217
His name is 'Traitor'?
>>44385648
>She doesn't go from being a moisture farmer to a master pilot making a near impossible bombing run.
But she does go from being a scrap gatherer to master pilot making a near impossible escape from special forces TIE fighters.
And that's just the beginning of the movie.
>>44365400
I'm calling this fucker the Memetrooper because of all the forced memeing that's surrounding him. He beat up Finn, yes, but Finn has literally NEVER used a lightsaber before and is pretty much a complete rookie. Why people are so focused on fellating him is beyond me.
>>44368516
>That short film
>Mah nigga
>>44385697
To be fair, she seemed already quite familiar with pilot work. It's not difficult to swallow. Everything she does has a plausible story explanation, a more plausible explanation than Skywalker's transformation.
>>44385705
people are being silly and having fun
>>44385653
And we can see that Kylro Ren is so totally disciplined he can just overwhelm someone strong in the force. He does just great against people who aren't strong in the force. He's obviously never actually dealt with someone else as strong as he is in the force.
They're twins, obviously.
>>44385694
That's what he yells at Finn so people named him that.
Is very subtle no?
>>44385598
Luke never saw Lightsaber combat until he was apart of it, and even though he was trounced he was able to hold off one of the best Jedi and Sith duelists single handedly for way too long.
>>44385623
>>44385640
With the exception of basically bludgeoning the Stormie with Force Persuades, she doesn't really do anything perfectly the very first time.
Unless you're talking about piloting, but that has nothing to do with the force and she's spent her life in starships, so there's at least some knowledge there. Beyond that Kylo kicked her ass both times he fought her, and she doesn't really use the force for anything else.
Also >>44385648 this.
>I used to fly speeders around a desert with my buddies, of course I can shoot a torpedo into a ventilation shaft on a heavily defended military base!
People need to take Luke off a pedestal. He was just as much of a Protagonist! as Rey is.
>>44385705
His scene was distinctive, and pretty ideal for cracking jokes about.
>>44385705
Because it's basically the first time a dude with a lightsaber was defeated by someone without a lightsaber, excluding Order 66.
>>44385719
The first few times it was funny, and I enjoyed that scene in the movie.
This is the second thread on the topic and we're only going to be seeing more.
>>44385555
It took Luke two movies to use telekinesis on the lightsaber.
>>44385729
>Beyond that Kylo kicked her ass both times he fought her, and she doesn't really use the force for anything else.
Except the second time, but he was pretty heavily wounded then.
>>44385738
the movie came out literal days ago
>>44385716
And she had terrain advantage.
Consider the difficulty difference between:
>Run at full speed through this house
and
>Run at full speed through YOUR house
>>44385735
Dude, Jango Fett kicked all kinds of ass and he didn't have a lightsaber.
>>44385746
He also didn't get an up and close and personal view of how the force can interact with a human mind.
>>44385716
>she seemed already quite familiar with pilot work
From fucking what?
>>44385748
A week ago, actually.
>>44385747
Right well.. the "for the situation of the fight" was implied. Kylo ain't no bitch. Well.. Mostly, but he's working on that with his talks with grandpappy.
>>44385774
She was born off-world, and seemed immediately familiar with running a starship. She doesn't give a full explanation of her background, but it can be safely assumed she already knew how to pilot a ship. She also relied on an intimate familiarity of the terrain to her advantage.
>>44366472
The thing is everyone thinks that part watching a stormtropper die is what made him leave the troopers. What did it was the scene watching them all murder unarmed people.
>>44385729
Uh, she handily kicked Kylo's ass the second time. Hence the bigass scar on his face.
>>44385765
Jango Fett was built up to be an ass-kicker. Stormtroopers have a long history as disposable faceless mooks, so seeing one achieve something is a rare and special occurrence.
>>44385729
Luke had begun to receive training from Obi-won, and watched part of Vader's fight in the hanger.
Luke's speeder that he shot similarly sized targets from was made by the same company that made the X-wing and had a similar control setup. I personally don't have a huge issue with Rey's piloting since I definitely remember watching her bounce the Falcon across the desert.
>>44385798
Which is ironic, since all stormtroopers are Jango.
>>44385767
"These aren't the droids you are looking for."
"These aren't the droids we're looking for."
"We can go on our way now."
"You can go on your way now."
>>44385818
Clone troopers are.
Stormtroopers are hired military from across the galaxy after the clones were phased out.
>>44385789
My issue isn't that Rey knows how to do shit. It's that there's barely anything told about her background and she has very little character or development.
You can easily describe Finn and Poe's characters but Rey's is really blank.
>>44385818
Incorrect. Only a shrinkingly small subset of stormies were Jango.
>>44385789
>it can be safely assumed
No, see, that's just trying to justify something without explanation. We know she's from off-world (thanks to the force vision), but she says she'd never left the planet. Up until pulling hitherto unheard of piloting skills out of her ass, all we see her do is deal scrap and beat up thugs.
To use the luke example, before we see him in the jumpsuit, we have him sitting with the pilots talking about his own flight experience. Before he gets in the cockpit, we have biggs and red leader come up and talk about his simulation results. It's not fucking much, but it's something. That's the difference between the two.
>>44385820
He didn't do it TO Luke though.
>>44385824
I'd describe her as brash and assertive, and yearning for family. She got about as much background as Luke did in the first film.
Frankly I think she's getting a harder time because she's not protected by nostalgia.
>>44385795
A heavily injured Kylo fighting Rey and Fin's tag team. Not that Fin was much of a fight. Plus Starkiller base blowing up seperates them right before he would have been at his strongest Being the pretty boy that he is, that faceshot pissed him right the fuck off.
The point I was making isn't that Kylo won, it's that Rey didn't pull a draw on that fight because she's a super special snowflake. She did it because of how handicapped Kylo was and the limitations of that battle.
>>44385848
If this is true, it's because A New Hope wasn't that good of a story and remaking it for the 2015 crowd isn't winning any favors.
>>44385836
So you need a thesis any time a character does something? Do you need Han Solo explaining that his dad used to take him out and shoot cans off the fence to explain how he knows how to use a blaster, or can you assume by the fact that he knows how to use a blaster, that he knows how to use a blaster?
Also racing speeders is not sufficient explanation for piloting a sophisticated piece of military equipment and you know it.
>>44370521
Where did this 'author insert' qualifier come from? Bullshit. I don't personally think she's a Mary Sue but she definitely does have a 'where are her flaws?' problem.
>>44385824
>It's that there's barely anything told about her background
Probably because what we were told was pretty much all there is. Family came to Jakku, left her there, told her to wait for them, fucked off, she became a scavenger to pay the bills, and then the movie starts.
>>44385863
Or it's because the Star Wars films were modeled after Flash Gordon style adventure serials, and aren't character dramas.
>>44385824
>barely anything told about her background
Her backstory is explicitly told, yo. You get to see how she even lives day-to-day.
>>44385705
Because TR-8R was the hero that movie needed.
>>44385843
That only explains her turning the mind reading, kylo never gave her the old mind trick
>>44385774
She's spent the majority of her life scavenging, salvaging and refurbishing starships.
There were probably flight tests involved at some point, but even if there weren't she should still be familiar with starships.
>>44385864
>Also racing speeders is not sufficient explanation for piloting a sophisticated piece of military equipment and you know it.
Skyhopper's never been a speeder, mate.
>>44385820
They're saying that in comparion for Rey and Kylo, Ben didn't leap into Luke's mind to kick him in the neurons and slap his brainjuices around while probably psychically projecting the sensation of really bad nu-metal blasting at 120 decibels. Rey got a VERY INTIMATE 1-1 with the guy going full hog with the I'm A Big Bad Boy mind torment powers.
>>44365400
Wow, I had already lost interest in seeing FA when I learned what a mary sue the chick character was, but this webm has actually instilled a negative desire to see it.
>>44385855
That may be literally true, but that's not what we're shown in the fight.
What we're shown in the movie is Kylo beat down Finn after getting a minor wound, and using his pain to fuel his anger. As he's winning, he reminds Rey that the Force is totally a thing she could be using right now.
Then she closes her eyes mid-fight, has a clear moment, then her makeup fixes itself and she suddenly beats his ass with no training like he's a stormtrooper.
There are a lot of mitigating factors, but the way the scene is shot and the way they decide to show their respective fighting styles, we wind up with a much less interesting fight scene.
>>44385877
yeah but there clearly has to be more to it because what is shown doesnt account for the some of the skills she possesses, like watching a guy who works at a warehouse work all day, and then later he goes on an adventure and is an expert sniper, knows how to solve quantum mechanics problems, and easily learns to speak chinese after staring at a sign for an hour. Clearly there is more to this man than just working at a warehouse day in and day out.
>>44385899
Which is why I'm totally cool with her fixing up the falcon later on in the movie. That makes sense.
but salvaging ruined star ships is not good flight training for the first random junker you steal in the middle of an exciting action scene
>>44385876
Then they ought to stop 'shoehorning' character development into those stories. Last I recall, Han Solo developed a full about-face in character, in the original trilogy. That's not very serial-like. Just because Star Wars is a space opera and just because Flash Gordon is a space opera, doesn't mean you can generalize that Star Wars is like Flash Gordon.
>>44385913
She was kind of fueled for violence there, though. I could see Rey being some borderline-darkside type in how she sees and uses her powers as they blossom. Then again, Luke training incoming.
>>44385864
A random nobody who suddenly pilots a ship better than any other pilot the audience has ever seen in any of the movies before, while also having demonstrated no knowledge or learning of piloting prior to that moment, is shitty character design, period.
>>44385848
I wouldn't use brash or assertive but I agree about family. That doesn't deal with her missing background at all.
Luke, just from the first movie, is naive, inexperienced, Brave, and actually has a background. Rey and Luke are both Brave, and good-natured, but Luke still has a background, while Rey's is one big mystery. I realize it's something for the second movie, but it's still very irksome.
>>44385877
Essentially, you are handwaving away all the skills displayed by Denzel Washington's character in The Equalizer by having watched him work at Home Depot. That's what you're doing right now.
>>44385803
Fair enough, I did forget that Luke sees the tail end of Obi-won Vs. Vader, but he certainly wasn't taking notes, so he's pretty scrub-tier with a Lightsaber the fight time he squares off against daddy.
Also never knew the same company making his speeder and the X-wing, which is neat, but there's still a massive gap between blasting womp rats on Tatooine and torpedo-ing ventilation ports on Death Stars.
Basically what this guy is saying. >>44385848
People keep bitching about Rey being perfect or being a blank face character, but this is the first movie in a trilogy that she's clearly the main (force using) protagonist in. We've been teased at the mystery of her background which is something that's clearly going to be explored more in the upcoming sequels. Poe and Fin are fleshed out in the first movie far more because their backstories aren't pertinent to the overarching plot-line like Rey's will be.
>Patience you must have, my young padawan.
-A guy who knew what the fuck he was talking about when it comes to how things work in Star Wars
>>44385933
>doesn't mean you can generalize that Star Wars is like Flash Gordon.
The fact Lucas outright said he modelled Star Wars after those adventure serials is why I can do that.
>>44385915
Piloting a starship seems to be akin to driving a car in real life. Nobody is born knowing how to do it but you can figure it out without too much trouble. It's not like she was an ace pilot right out of the gate either, she was crashing into all sorts of shit until she got the Falcon into orbit, the Star Wars equivalent to a mall parking lot on a sunday morning, to go back to my learning to drive metaphor.
>>44385958
He did an awful job at it, then. I mean, Lucas, so kind of to be expected.
>>44385946
But The Equalizer is a shitty movie.
>>44385936
She demonstrates her learning and knowledge of piloting right there. Do you expect Han Solo to go through a training montage to become good with a blaster?
>>44385936
>I've flow ships before but never like that
She clearly states piloting experience, the rest is just force sensitivity, like anytime anyone does something impressive in star wars
>>44385913
>minor wound
A direct hit with a Bowcaster is not a minor anything.
>>44385955
>but this is the first movie in a trilogy
ah shit, I forgot movies in trilogies are immune to critique
>>44385915
She's a ship scavenger. The only surprise is that she's such a proficient pilot, and gets a handle on the force so quickly.
It's not perfect, but she fits the protagonist convenience pretty reasonably.
>>44385936
Bullshit. Poe literally flies circles around other pilots as he's killing them.
This is like bitching about how Lightsaber combat got fancier as the movies get newer. They can do cooler things with CGI now then they could before. Starship scenes need to be bigger! and faster! and more intense! for the new 2015 audience.
We're all a bunch of Slaaneshi cultists. You need to keep hitting us with harder and harder entertainment for us to feel it anymore. Or at least that's what Hollywood thinks.
>>44385992
No one is saying that. We're saying you're being overly critical, and that your criticism are somewhat unfounded.
This is pretty much exactly what everyone knew would happen: nonstop bitching.
>>44385891
If you can take something out you can put something in.
>>44385977
Han Solo isn't portrayed as the plucky-but-inexperienced protagonist.
>>44385999
To be fair, the prequel trilogy lightsaber combat was a tad absurd.
>>44385992
No, it's just that any criticism from the most hipster board on 4chan is meaningless.
>>44386013
She states outright she knew how to pilot.
>>44385979
>>44385992
The fuck are you talking about? I'm just saying the character isn't entirely fleshed out because there's still more story to tell in the sequels. I never once said the film was above critique, I just provided a real argument to the conversation instead of a snarky reply.
You know, contributing.
>>44386021
/tg/ isn't as hipster as /lit/ or /v/.
>>44386021
That's a clear case of hyperbole anon, /tg/ is #4 at best.
>>44386021
Hey now, we're not /mu/.
>>44386035
Last time a moisture farmer from a desert planet made that claim, he was kind of a fuck-up until he used the Force. Granted, after using the Force he ended up nailing a one-in-a-million shot.
>>44386016
Sometimes, yes, but The Clone Wars and Rebels follow suit so it's safe to assume that we'll get some acrobatic multicolored flashlight raves going on once Rey gets trained.
>>44385999
>Bullshit. Poe literally flies circles around other pilots as he's killing them.
Assuming it's the audience's first viewing, they would not have seen that part yet.
But again, Poe had his escapades in the intro, not to mention the designation of "Top Gun" given in the title crawl as well as Xylophone Ren's interrogation. Rey's got.. nothing.
>>44386045
I'd say we're less hipster than that. The dominant games here are Warhammer 40k, Pathfinder, and D&D. Which is pretty much the three most popular options on the market. The other fandoms to have stable generals are all from relatively large, or well-established companies and names in the medium, or in the case of the OSR general are a revival of the flagship product of the medium. We can be kind of contrarian at times, but I don't think that really fits the hipster thing (barring the fact that as a hobby, /tg/ related matters are pretty niche).
>>44385935
I'm still hoping they're going to salvage Lucas's original idea of the sequel arc revolving around morality, particularly with Luke, Ren/Jaccen/Ben and Rey being the focuses.
>>44386069
Rey has
>Piloting experience
Granted not combat.
>Knows that specific Star Destroyer inside and out intimately
>The Force
Which has been used to let people pull off impossible bullshit since the first time that yellow text slowly crawled up a movie screen.
>>44385848
But she's objectively better at what she attempts to do than Skywalker was. Screaming "nostalgia" doesn't obscure the facts of the film. Luke failed. A lot. Even when he was a full-fledged Jedi, he still relied on his friends to save his stupid ass. His characterization was much clearer, his background was better, and his objectives and desires within the film were clear and introduced properly. One of the best things about the original trilogy was there was only one protagonist. We spend the first half of the film with Luke.
Rey's character was not only contrived but hastily developed, leading to the complaints you see. She begins with a yearning to leave Jakku but unexpectedly (and quite melodramatically) reverses her characterization by saying she wants to stay on Jakku. The "rescue mission" was yet another attempt to characterize her as a strong womyn who don't need no man, establishing her literally as a background character to the action (the blocking in Finn and Solo's scene in Starkiller base was unintentionally hilarious. You see Finn and Solo having banter and discussing the plan and Rey is right there behind them, far off and away, escaping from danger with her bullshit Force mastery. She's in the background of the interesting characters. It's amazing.) Regurgitating "She's getting a hard time because no one likes strong female characters" or "You just don't like things that are different" is about what I'd expect from rabid fanboys. The Force Awakens was a cold, heartless film designed to squeeze as much life from the originals as possible. The insulting attempts at practical effects were purely for marketing purposes - JJ's excuse to appeal to fanboys. Rey was the least of the movie's concerns, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a terrible character.
tl;dr
Star Wars remains dead. Long live Star Wars.
>>44385990
It really bothers me that if we are to believe TFA, Han has never tried shooting Chewie's bowcaster before, even though they've worked together for close to four decades.
>>44385935
>Then again, Luke training incoming.
I want them to do a full reversal and have Luke tell Rey that the Dark Side can be drawn upon for strength. Fuck the rules, Luke's the last Jedi standing and he knows for a fact that the old ways were flawed, and besides that he knows Force Lightning is pretty fucking useful.
>>44386109
>Piloting experience
That we never see or understand. She hops into the Falcon and flies it expertly. She even lectures Han Solo on the innards of his own ship because she's just that gosh darned smart, dontchaknow.
The only thing we know about Rey's character by the time she gets into the Falcon is that she's a scrapper, a slave, and she wants to leave the planet. That is it. We don't see her piloting a ship or even have someone mention her piloting skills (as a comparison, Luke's piloting ability was hinted at from the very beginning of the film.) She just succeeds effortlessly at whatever she tries to do. Bullshitting "FORCE" is Lucas-tier.
>>44386124
>"She's getting a hard time because no one likes strong female characters"
I'll point out you're the first to bring that up, so projection much? Also we see her fuck up quite a bit, the crashing and banging as she tried to pilot the falcon comes to mind. She has to be bailed out less because she lived a harder life than Luke. Her characterization makes as much sense as Luke's.
>>44386131
The Bowcaster gives Chewie, a 7-foot tall mammoth man, recoil. I'm guessing Han Solo didn't think dislocating his shoulder was a good time.
>>44386069
Poe begin declared in the scroll as being the top pilot makes me fear for Wedge.
>>44386142
>and she doesn't* want to leave the planet
muh jakku
>>44386131
I'm more mad about chewie not being the one to get sad with Leia after the fight. They're basically family.
>>44386142
>She even lectures Han Solo on the innards of his own ship because she's just that gosh darned smart, dontchaknow.
Spent her time salvaging and repairing ships, needs to be repeated again.
>or even have someone mention her piloting skills
She mentions them.
>She just succeeds effortlessly at whatever she tries to do.
No, she doesn't. Do you remember that scene of her piloting the Falcon? That wasn't actually effortless or faultless in the slightest.
>>44386147
And I'll point out that's a common argument in these threads. No projection here, but nice projection asshole.
She doesn't bang up the Falcon. It's in pristine condition when Solo recovers it. She has to be bailed out less because she's a shit character who was written by some idiot who was afraid of giving her genuine faults or flaws. Her characterization switches halfway through the film and is never fully developed. We don't get to see any of her development at all. Keep reaching, keep whining. Rey was shit. At least Luke had some interactions that were believable and gave us relevant information about his character.
>>44386142
>She hops into the Falcon and flies it expertly.
She bounces it repeatedly across the desert before graduating to merely wobbly flight.
>>44386158
Dude, it's been thirty years and Wedge was pretty old and busted anyways.
He's probably a flight instructor, and cranky AF.
>>44386163
>I'm more mad about chewie not being the one to get sad with Leia after the fight. They're basically family.
Yeah, him just walking past her without a sound or even looking her really made me wtf.
>>44386174
>And I'll point out that's a common argument in these threads.
But none the less one first brought up by you. So how's that guilty conscious treating you? Ready to evaluate some attitudes?
>She doesn't bang up the Falcon.
You have a selective memory. She continually banged it into shit as she was flying it.
>She has to be bailed out less because she's a shit character who was written by some idiot who was afraid of giving her genuine faults or flaws.
No worse than Luke.
>Keep reaching, keep whining.
You're the one getting upset fellow.
>>44386142
Did we see different movies?
>That we never see or understand.
Because her background was clearly set up as having plot-centric reveals
>She hops into the Falcon and flies it expertly.
After crashing it around a desert for a solid 30 seconds which in movie time is quite a long time
>She even lectures Han Solo on the innards of his own ship because she's just that gosh darned smart, dontchaknow.
She's a scrapper so she knows the inside workings of ships really well. Han is never described as being any good with ships beyond piloting them.
>piloting a ship or even have someone mention her piloting skill
She mentions never flying like that before.
Man, do you need to see every character that drives a car in every film go through drivers ed? She's a fucking protagonist. They just do shit right in stories. That's literally what they do, and she has space magic behind her.
If you didn't like the movie because you can't clear the fog on your nostalgia goggles, fine. But don't try to pick at points that aren't really problems like a peudo-mechanic knowing ships better than a smuggler.
>>44386158
Most fans aren't going to remember wedge, and I doubt the creators will either. Gotta remember this is banking on the nostalgia of the casual viewer.
>>44386186
>old and busted
say that again m8
>>44386211
>She's a fucking protagonist. They just do shit right in stories.
>>44365400
Only somewhat related, but I was running an Eberron game where the players were raiding an outpost of the Inspired (think psychics possessed by dream demons). When they were fighting a huge multi-limbed monstrosity stepped briefly through a portal that appeared when the Inspired in charge was killed the barbarian character died to a save or die. He threw a fit because in his mind having a lovecraftian horror the size of a house stepping through a portal wasn't enough warning that this was a "boss" encounter. I don't play with that guy anymore...
>>44386216
>Most fans aren't going to remember wedge, and I doubt the creators will either. Gotta remember this is banking on the nostalgia of the casual viewer.
Anyone who played Rogue Squadron is going to give a shit.
>>44386168
>She mentions them.
>"I'M A PILOT"
Right, no one but her mentions her piloting ability and we never see any indication of it beforehand.
>Salvaging AND repairing
When did we learn that? We only saw her salvaging a Star Destroyer. She only gets food when she brings in junk. How do we know she repairs ships? Oh, right, we don't. You're making baseless assumptions because you're obsessed with this ugly special snowflake.
>Do you remember the scene of her piloting the Falcon?
You mean the one where she effortlessly navigates through the interior of a Star Destroyer and expertly maneuvers the Falcon into a forward stall so Finn could bullseye a TIE Fighter? And how there was no exterior damage to the ship and she knows everything about it within the span of three or four minutes? Yeah, I remember that scene. It was bullshit, like your obsession with this character.
>>44386235
The last rogue squadron game came out over a decade ago.
>>44386175
And just so happens to pilot it without any trouble through the maze-like internals of a Star Destroyer. She flies it expertly. Keep crying.
