Pathfinder General /pfg/
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Previous Thread: >>44335574
Is the pit witch good?
Again with the image dude
>>44346910
Stop shilling it.
>>44346910
You are very clearly the writer trying to push this shit. Please make this less awkward.
So what are Nidalese women like?
My Necromancer has picked up the ghost of a Nidalese Baroness who had herself sealed in an iron maiden and seems to enjoy the actual being tortured more than praising the Midnight Lord.
How the hell do you deal with that shit?
I mean I know that I got to deal with her uncomfortable ladyboners over the fact someone can finally torture her properly again, but I can handle that, price of power so on.
But the GM ain't sure how to play her personality wise.
And what does Nidalese fashion look like?
Hello everyone! I'm here to post a general outline of the first book of "On Cold Winds", a homebrew AP. I would love for feedback, ideas, hatred, and more! Anything is appreciated!
First of all are some polls.
First on the difficulty:
>http://strawpoll.me/6349215
And second the major themes:
>http://strawpoll.me/6349247
Now, for the outline
Book 1, levels 1-4, begins in an outer district of Silverdale where the PCs have been asked to find a group of individuals kidnapped from the community by raiders, simple enough. Following the trail they find the raiders, and either discovering after killing them or simply asking them the PCs will uncover that the raiders too have had disappearances. The trail will lead to bolt hold heading into the capital and uncover for the PCs that it’s Silverdale’s own government that is abducting people. The next leg goes into discovering where these people are going and why they are being abducted. Some criminal organizations in the city want to know as well, and are willing to work with the PCs towards finding out. This leads to a cover up and criminal organization run by a member of the Evengale Council. The PCs will find out that the kidnapped are being shipped across the steaming sea to the opposite shore.
(1/2)
>>44346890
>>44346947
On the opposite shore they will find that the abductees are being used in dwarven labor camps to dredge up old artifacts from the floor of the steaming sea. They will also come into contact with a merchant prince and his bid for power (trying to take control by becoming a trusted accomplice of Evengale), because just as the PCs arrive the dwarves will have found what they were searching for. This then turns into a heist/dungeon delve as the PCs can try and get the item (old texts sealed in a watertight container). An agent of the Evengale Council reveals themselves to the PCs and informs them it is a much for disjointed organization than they thought. Some are for the abducting, others opposed it, the vote was stalled but members went through with it anyway in secret to speed up the plan’s time tables.
The agent offers the PC’s a choice to come back and work as agents of Evengale, that people like them are needed. This is where book 1 ends.
>>44346947
You need kawaii as fuck winter fairies in this AP.
Jesus christ that body
>>44346947
>I would love for feedback, ideas, hatred, and more! Anything is appreciated!
>Ideas
Play a whole bunch of Witcher 3 and Dark Souls to get a general feel for the themes and mood that would be perfect for the AP.
A cynical world filled with people just trying to come out on top, and many of the major enemies the party faces are the pathetic shadows of old glories.
>>44347059
She's #1 Slut for a reason.
>>44347059
Sure, if you like roast beef and having your soul sucked out through a hand job.
I'll stick with safe, mostly sane tiefling girls bro.
>>44346974
>>44346947
Oh! And another thing.
Thus far the average desired difficult is 7.8. We'll be rounding that up to 8 and saying it is "very hard". I've already designed a few encounters, including what I think would be a fun bossfight for book 2.
As for the themes, what is winning are the following:
>Noblebright
>The Long Journey
>Lost Beauty
>The Class Divide
I'm going to be doing the write up of the introduction now, and drawing a map so people can visualize the last bastion around the steaming sea.
>>44338150 (You)
>>44338286 (You)
for the new thread.
need to know how early i can begin my ascent to weaboo telepouncing glory.
>>44347059
Her boobs got nerfed in WotR
>>44347025
Yes, that murder the party! Perfect!
>>44347066
In the beginning it will be fairly urban, but books 2/3 will transition to have more of the horrors of old beings that have lost the flame of sanity. Book one will have those who seek to come out on top, particularly in the form of criminal warring around one another to scrabble for what little resources there are.
>>44347110
I myself am unsure of the answer and not fit to go looking through the stuff (Christmas retail is a bitch), but I've passed it along.
>>44347148
Does every DSP writer work retail?
>>44347132
>>44346912
Got your picture right here.
>>44347158
Actually I think it's just a couple. We're the ones complaining about it though.
>>44347185
Nice timeworn weapon fag
>>44347144
How cute are the NPCs going to be in this particular adventure? Are we dealing with Scandinavian-tier buxom blondes and hearty hunks, or a more general mix of peoples?
>>44347195
Slightly weird question, would you guys be ok with use of DSP material in an AP?
>>44346890
/pfg/, maybe you guys can use your awesome math and help me with something. I'm in a 13th level party, and we're wondering whether it's generally going to be better to make separate skill checks or assist each other. The particular example we're working with is intimidate. We've got three PCs that are good at intimidating. One has a +25 bonus, one a +23 bonus, and one a +15 bonus. Is it going to be better to have all three of us roll an intimidate check (so that even if the +25 guy rolls really low, someone else can still succeed if they roll better) or to have the +25 guy roll and the other two assist (they can't possibly fail to do so because of the low DC for aid another) to give him an extra +4 on the check? We've been going with assisting the man with the highest bonus, but I'm curious about the actual probability of the situation.
>>44347253
Technically you're better off all rolling, but in practice most situations call for one person being the Face, with everyone else enhancing their roll.
>>44347148
much appreciated muchacho, hope the godless heathen's non-denominational holidays are gentle on you lot.
How are you even supposed to fight shit like
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/daemons/daemon-the-oinodaemon
or is it that you're not actually supposed to?
>>44347238
I'll explain a little about the species around the area and their characterization.
Silverdale:
>Racial Majority
Humans/Orcs/Halforcs
>Racial Minority
Halflings
Raiders Beyond the Kel
>Racial Majority
Hoboblins
>Racial Minorities
Goblins/Bugbears
The Sea Stacks
>Racial Majority
Dwarves
>Racial Minority
Gnomes/Humans
Velmen Islands
>Racial Majority
Kobolds
>Racial Minority
N/A (non kobolds are culled)
These make up the vast majority of those who are are left in this new world. The world is generally cut off from the outer planes, as they will not play a part in this AP so human offshoots are not a race option. Elves no longer exist, having had their twilight early on in the winter and now only exist as half-elves occasionally spontaneously coming to be in human populations. All reptilian people except the kobolds have died out, as have grippli.
You do still occasionally find ratfolk, but they are few and far between.
I am unsure if I have answered you question. As for cute girls, I shall get to that by explaining the general features and cultural of the native humans.
>>44347363
Be a god?
>>44346910
Guy who made the Beastnerd Ranger archetype last thread here, if you want we can gather a few more homebrew archetypes from anons in the thread and then collect them in a linkbin, which would actually merit adding to the homebrew section of the threadly pastebin.
How 'bout it guys? Any fresh archetype ideas or shit you want in a class?
>>44347363
Cheat like a fuckin' asshole basically.
He isn't immune to ability drain or enervation.
Blind him, which is what the daemons did in canon apparently. He can't heal himself in any way without external assistance.
And bring several armies.
>>44347383
Of the human population what you find mostly are indivudals who originally inhabited the equator, where the steaming sea is. However centuries in the cold has made them grow pale.
Smaller people with raven hair, slender and meek. They are what is left of humanity. Indeed calling humanity may not be the best way to describe it, as human/orcs have melded together into a single people. Ever man has a bit of orc blood in him, and every orc a bit of man. Indeed elves, even though they existed in small number early on in the winter, were simply bred into obscurity.
Orc/Elves
Elfes/Human
Human/Orc
All of these will exist as race options for the AP (I will homebrew the Elf/Orc). In addition a composite, essentially a elf/orc/human mixed blood will exist as an option.
Orcish features range from charcoal cray to pale ash skin, with strong bone structure and hair going from the top of their back down their neck to form a mane on their shoulders. Their arms are longer in comparison to their bodies, giving them an awkward loping gate.
Elven features on the other hand are closer to the classic. Pointed ears, and tall willowy bodies. Their ears droops, so long as to droop nearly below their shoulders (as such making a culture that clips their skins. Their skin so pale to nearly be translucent with veins pulsing just beneath the skin. They have essentially no hair, even on their heads, merely wisps.
Those are the features of orcs/elves/humans. Combinations there of make up what there is now.
Is it OK that a guy who may or may not be a closet homo plays a raging gay basher in a campaign I'm in? It gets kinda weird sometimes. He literally accuses every other NPC of being gay and try to beat them up. Setting is early middle ages HRE with magic and shit.
>>44347632
Your players are going to be weird people sometimes, it's a fact of life. If they're not ruining the game, let them be weird.
>>44347293
In a lot of situations I guess, yeah. In this case, we're interrogating someone so I would think we could either do it as a group or one by one.
>>44347389
One of you, make me a Bard thatdoesn't cast spells.Or at least has VERY few spells.
>>44347471
his defenses are so good you will never hit with anything though.
>>44347239
hey guess what. even if they weren't it's open game content (some of it, check carefully)
>>44347792
I'm not planning on using the organizations, just the classes/disciplines themselves.
Perhaps the stuff from PoW expanded.
Where would I actually check?
>>44346945
I think high ranking nidalese people have their garments sewn into their skin...might just be the clerics of ZonZon though.
>>44347253
supposing that the roll is something possible and ignoring special rules for natural 1 or 20...
the +15 fag has -50% chance to succeed than the +25 fag.
he could give up rolling to give a +10% to his friend.
if the CD is 36+ then he is clearly better off aiding the highest.( 50%&0%||60%).
if the CD is 33+ then he is clearly better off aiding the highest (65%%15|| 75%). [it's 29% to fail vs 25%]
if the CD is 30 then we are talking about (75%&25%||85%) it's actually better to aid. and it's a pretty big chance to succeed overall.
if the CD is some shit like 27-28 then by aiding he's basically ensuring success ( natural 1 disaster rule aside) by aiding.
you don't even know whats the real CD so the lowest one has to aid the highest. the +23 guy rolls on its own. he's a good safety net against a natural 1.
>That campaign you'd totally jump on the moment it's available and fight tooth and nail to get in
What's her name?Mine's a Land of the Linnorm King campaign centered around glory, might, and becoming a Linnorm King.
>>44347814
Path of War p. 163 has the license details
and on page 1, it notes
>Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress. (Elements that have previously been designated as Open Game Content or are in the public domain are not included in this declaration.)
>Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the game mechanics of this game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may be reproduced in any form without written permission.
Stat me /pfg/!
>>44347717Casts from all lists.
>>44347979
Bard 4/Fabulous 7 with the skeletal champion template.
>>44347979
MATADOOOOOOOOR!
you son of a bitch!
>>44347979
- Con
>>44347943
Oh, that's not so bad then. I just wanted the disciplines and classes, no one specific.
Oh, and I have another strawpoll. This one is far more important than any previous by a wide margin. It concerns waifus.
Comes /pfg/, vote on which waifus you desire.
>http://strawpoll.me/6351187
Also, suggest your own based on what I have said!
>>44348130
>that jank progression
>>44348211
Sorry, not my best idea. I'm really sleepy but someone gave me a request after I asked and I'd feel bad if it went unfulfilled.
>>44347979
Bard/Agent of the Grave Lich
>>44348179
>humanoid races only
Garbage.
>>44347717
Look at the Rubato from PoW:E
>>44348325
You want non-humanoid waifus? Suggest non-humanoid waifus! I'm open to suggestions!
I can try and make things fit! Update the poll! I'm trying to make something the community would like!
>>44348167
Shit, son. That's not SMT's matador, is it? If it is, color my surprised. Then again, I only know him from Nocturne, so I wouldn't be surprised if his design was different in earlier games.So, uh... How do I Demi-Fiend in Pathfinder? Would he have to be some sort of unique Outsider or Monstrous Humanoid with class levels?
>>44348377
>yuki-onna
>winter fairies
>qorrashi
>ice devils
>>44348377
Clearly Shoggoth is the best answer, especially one with fleshwarping and halluncination based powers.
>>44348381
Actually that is sorcerer Hein from FF 3 I think. A rather unremarkable boss.
>>44348425
>>44348427
>Shoggoth
>Ice Devils
Did you guys actually put any thought into how this would work? One of these is inhumanely monstrously evil, the other has 5int.
>qorrashi
Don't know much about these, but I can give them a look.
>yuki-onna
Generally not looking to do something eastern theme'd
>winter fairies
I can make this work, but these are still humanoid, just humanoid fey. I don't really understand the difference between them and just a mortal with ice powers.
>>44348425
I have a soft spot in my heart for yuki-onna and winter fairies sound nice too. Not so sure about the other ones, though.
But something like a frost giant or ice dragon waifu who can potentially be wooed after first impressing her with the PCs' accomplishment to prove that they're not just some unimportant humanoid shmucks would be aces.
>>44348428
Oh.
>>44348506
>Shoggoth
>Evil
Bitch, read Saya no Uta
>>44347239
Technically we can't stop you.
As for if we'd be /okay/...harder to answer? We haven't tried to make an AP beyond the one because they're, well, giant expensive risk factors. Someone willing to make an AP with our material on their own and then trying to pitch it? That's a bit of a different story (to wit, we'd be able to read it and decide if we want it).
In any event, using our material is fine, just don't go "This be DSP ENDORSED" until/unless we actually endorse it. Also, as one writer to another - if you decide you'd like it published, but it turns out we aren't interested in it, there's some other 3pp folks that have made stuff that works with our systems. They could be worth investigating for such ambitions.
Thanks for the interest.
>>44348506
>I don't really understand the difference between them and just a mortal with ice powers.
Well, one of those two doesn't melt away come Summer only to be reborn later in the year when temperatures start to fall again.She use to hate it, but knowing now that the man who warmed her heart will be waiting for her when she reforms means that she can finally sleep happily this year.Also the very fact that they aren't mortal will probably mean their disposition is going to be different from that of most/any mortals.
>>44348534
No, the devil is evil. Shoggoth have 5int.
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/shoggoth
>>44348549
Do not worry. I would not claim endorsement without express written permission. Once a workable first draft is done of book one I may pitch it to you lot since I might as well.
Anything in particular you'd like to see out of an AP that uses your material? Hell, if I'm gonna pitch it to might as well know my audience.
>>44348579
>Well, one of those two doesn't melt away come Summer only to be reborn later in the year when temperatures start to fall again.
Wouldn't that be an issue considering it's always winter?
>Also the very fact that they aren't mortal will probably mean their disposition is going to be different from that of most/any mortals.
I know where they would fit in the narrative, but it wouldn't be until book 3 once the expedition is underway and the PCs actually head into the frozen expanse.
>>44348594
Aside from the typical standards of quality, fun, etc?
In a word: class. Not necessarily /swank/, as such, but a certain amount of dignity.
"Our material" has gotten pretty broad these days so it's harder to define beyond that, but in general I, at least, tend to prefer adventures that have a backbone of seriousness. If it helps, Expedition to Undermountain remains my favorite pre-made module of all time.
My fellow writers may have other opinions, which they are free to express; this is my own, not DSP's.
>>44348594
It still works. Even PF's bestiary gives the implication that they are gaining intelligence, which a fleshwarper would unlock even more.
>>44348658
>but in general I, at least, tend to prefer adventures that have a backbone of seriousness.
That is something you wouldn't have to worry about at least. I tend to dislike the just for laughs kind of adventures you get sometimes, with anything goes plots and such. I don't want to be 100% serious every moment, but an adventure with a more mature tone is what I was looking towards.
We, in at least this, seem to be of the same opinion.
>Expedition to Undermountain remains my favorite pre-made module of all time.
I shall give it a read.
>>44348670
I must ask however. Why would you want a shoggoth waifu? I mean, they are CR 19 ooze monstrosities. I do not see the appeal.
>>44348756
You see that little girl in that pic? That's Saya, Saya is basically a shoggoth. The MC still sticks his dick into her.
>>44348756
As I said, give Saya no Uta a read.
Nothing is more beautifully human than the inhuman that has learned to be so.
Did Eldritch Tide anon ever finish any of her bitchin' discipline ideas, or is she just a faggot as expected?
>>44347389Faerie princess Chabinger
>>44348821
>Chabinger
Shhhh Gareth is watching.
>>44348806
To be fair, he only does that because he's mentally ill and sees beautiful as gore and gore as beautiful.
>>44348846
He does have a point though, Int and Wis have conversion archetypes, why not Cha?
Mystic would work too for that
>>44348806
It seems like you like her because she is cute, not because she is a man eating monstrosity though. I am still confused. It seems to be love despite something, not because of something.
I can definitely see the need for flaws, the need to love someone despite something. In fact the AP's theme of lost beauty goes with that rather well. I will think on it. I shall think on loving the monster.
I actually know exactly where it would fit. It would not be a shoggoth exactly, but it would be someone who hides the beast essentially. It would appear during book 2.
>>44348506
Huldra might be cute, especially since they provide warmth in cold places.
>>44348859
>>44348874
Above it all, Saya no Uta is a love story between two damaged people inherently cut off from interaction with 'normal' people who discover through that bond the love they always craved.
Both sides are inherently flawed, but then, such it is to be human.
>>44348846
>>44348821
THAT'S WHY I SPOILERED
God damnit, anon. If ragekun shows up to start frothing at the mouth about what developers are obligated to thrust inside him at his exact preferred pacing and force coefficient, it's going to suck for like the next three generals.
>>44348874
I'm actually a different Anon than the one trying to push a shoggoth waifu.
Sounds cool though.
>>44348821Sorry I'm going to bed and would only just be learning the Harbinger to make the archetype since I haven't gotten to try out PoW material yet.
>>44348670
Have you even seen a Shoggoth? They're not something you'd want to date, much less fuck.
Seriously, stop going on anime logic with this, Shoggoth are nightmare-fuel.
>>44348915
I see that very much working in a 1 on 1 person, however that dynamic becomes very difficult when you are working with a party of PCs. Having two damaged indivudals among those who are not causes a lot of chafing thematically for the party.
I shall give it a read however and think on it, and how to incorporate such a character without being disruptive. Perhaps not as a romantic interest, but merely a sympathetic character.
>>44348945
And are not humans the same through a different lens?
Can not true love see beyond all filters of perception?
>>44348957
They're literally barely sapient blobs of plastic organs and semi-permanent brains. There is nothing true about them except their arrival means death to all. These are not Devils or even demons, a Shoggoth is a servitor race that turned against their creators for the sheer desire to destroy.
>>44348957
Actually I have to agree with the other anon. Shoggoth really are monsters in pathfinder, barely intelligent ones. Saying "humans are just a different kind of monster" is all well and good, but you're playing as a bunch of humanoids.
Really it's hard to make a lovecraftian creature sympathetic in a group setting, as I said >>44348951
Because it's about changing people's perspective, and in a group unless you change EVERYONE's perspective there are going to be problems with the narrative. Much better to have them be closer to a human, someone with both the monster and the man, not a monster trying to be a man.
Though again the monster trying to be the man is a compelling archetype, and certainly worth exploring, but I am just unsure if it is worth exploring here.
I apologize for my rambling, but hope I made myself understandable.
>>44348998
>They're literally barely sapient blobs of plastic organs and semi-permanent brains.
Just like Humans, when it comes down to it.
>>44348998
>There is nothing true about them except their arrival means death to all
So....like Humans
>>44348998
>These are not Devils or even demons, a Shoggoth is a servitor race that turned against their creators for the sheer desire to destroy.
So, in PF, Humans?
>>44348874
>I actually know exactly where it would fit. It would not be a shoggoth exactly, but it would be someone who hides the beast essentially. It would appear during book 2.
See >>44348907, or a werewolf type.
>>44348873
I need to note that I was opposed to these too.
I won't repeat the chabinger rant. We've been having a nice thread thus far.
>>44348534
>Saya
>Not evil as fuck
>>44349025
Im in agrement that just seems highly fucking retarded, like falling in love an animal retarded.
>>44348932
>pic related: trying to explain Golarion
>>44348506
:>One of these is inhumanly monstrously evil
I know an actual person who dated one of those girls who works at an animal shelter and regularly culls the excess puppies. It's a real fetish.
>the other has 5 int
People form sentimental relationships with SNAKES, and both Forrest Gump and the Notebook are considered to have romantic appeal, despite portraying characters who aren't even mentally capable of consent, let alone a full emotional range.
>>44349032
This is like saying dogs and fish are identical because they can both be eaten.
>>44349044
>Saya
>Not human as fuck
Fixed that for you, man
>>44349033
Ah yes, werewolves are rather cool, but I think they've been explored to a rather fine conclusion in APs. Hulda however are interesting, fey are in general.
While I would not want to include outsiders, perhaps fey would be an interesting addition.
>>44349045
I am not speaking any longer for PF shoggoth, as they would be essentially impossible, more speaking to some other beast and man combo. Perhaps the Hulda (though it is man enough to almost not matter), perhaps the idea I have already had (I think it would be rather fun to play through in fact).
Falling in love with a PF shoggoth would indeed be strange and probably mess up the group dynamic.
>>44349082
She minds rapes a man into killing his own family, then cries crocodile tears when he revenge rapes him.
She attacks and kills innocent people.
She LITERALLY eats babies.
She attacked and mind raped, an innocent woman. Then turned her body into a monstrosity and then tag teamed raped her with her boy toy.
Her entire reason for existing is to turn out dimension into a twisted meatscape.
>>44349104
Huldra sounds good. That anon can go fuck himself for bringing in some shitty weebshit.
>>44349065
Again, it's hard to make something abrasive like devils/demons/daemons/oozes/etc. into love interest or sympathetic characters without making the entire AP about it due to the inherent need to create sympathies where there wouldn't normally be any.
I like it conceptually, both the man and monster mixed and the monster pretending to be a man, but do not think they would work here that well, at least not as central characters.
>>44348506
>the other has 5int.
Never stopped Americans.....
Just sayin.
>>44348943
It's fine, anon. I'll probably write it myself at some point. I just wish there wasn't already animal companion and mount archetypes for the Harbinger; I'd like to do something like that. I guess there's always familiars, but they're rough to bend into shape for a martial class. Maybe I'll just skip it and burgle the mesmerist for inspiration.
>>44349104
The thing about Huldra is they become inhuman monsters if you piss them off enough, so you could be in an interesting scenario where you're having a pleasant discussion with a lovely stranger and someone notices the tail, and if they don't have the right Knowledge check they might say or do the thing that pisses the Huldra off.
And hey, if they make the check and work with her someone might have gotten themselves a waifu. Fun stuff.
Does anyone have what they would consider the "best written" pathfinder APs. I would like to give them a read over to see the writing style and style of presentation so I may model myself after it. I have done prebuilt adventures before, but as notes done to myself, not in a form meant to be used by others.
My writing experience will not help here as that is mainly in technical writing and fiction writing, not for this sort of medium.
I have heard Jade Reagent a good one, and Gareth gave me his favorite. I am planning on looking at them. Any others that should be read in preparation?
>>44349249
I would have to say Iron Gods, but I may be biased as a STALKER fan.
>>44349147
Oh, yeah, I don't think you should try it in an AP. To be honest deliberately crowdsourcing for waifus already makes me feel iffy, because outside of /tg/ it's like...you know? Good writing and an evocative adventure with space for players to maneuver and express their characters is the selling point. Waifus are the kind of thing that, once associated with the AP, are going to shut it down for a lot of tables. We've got a couple girls in our group who are fine with romantic interests and yet would be 0% willing to touch something explicitly Magical Realm in the same way you don't pick up your buddy's fleshlight.
Honestly I'd stick to humanoid, or something grey-area like a shapechanging dragon of appropriate age category for the AP level at worst, and while I might ask /tg/ for ideas and advice, I wouldn't do it with a trip and I wouldn't make it identifiable as a final product. General "so what kind of character..." questions, very anonymous, and not just in this general.
If you just want this released here, no worries at all. If you want to get picked up...maybe cut this line of discussion off before it loses what Gareth refers to as "class."
>>44349249
Jade Regent is very well written, same with Curse of the Crimson Throne.
>>44349249
Reigns of Winter was fun except book 3
>>44349291
>If you just want this released here, no worries at all. If you want to get picked up...maybe cut this line of discussion off before it loses what Gareth refers to as "class."
This is why I'm mainly just using the polls for opinion sourcing, not for actual decision making on the course of the AP.
>Waifus are the kind of thing that, once associated with the AP, are going to shut it down for a lot of tables.
This is why I was half-joking with it.
> I wouldn't do it with a trip and I wouldn't make it identifiable as a final product.
I don't think /tg/ or /pfg/ is that toxic, but I see your point. We're a very small subset of the pathfinder community with some very particular opinions, but not many of them are abrasive to the point that they will break down the AP as a whole. At the very least I will not let such things get into the AP, mainly because I'm making the kind of adventure I would like to play.
On a whole the goal is a stoic adventure in a world that is dying, with groups both trying to make themselves comfortable as they watch the ends, and others desperately trying to change the course. It's not about waifus, it's about the adventure after the end of days has already begun. Not the hot and fiery hell of a quick death, but the slow ending of an era.
>>44349249
How is your AP going to be different from Reign of Winter?
>>44349451
I have to express the same concern as this anon.
What makes this AP any different from Reign of Winter?Why are you doing a "world is fucked in ice" AP when what we all really want is a Land of the Linnorm Kings AP?
>>44349304
A warning with Jade Regent; my group is running it now, and our DM has been pretty annoyed with Part 2, particularly the chain of events we're supposed to be following to get from point A to point B.
>>44349486Because if he wants to publish, he can't use anything from Golarion. He could do "fight dragons in viking land that is not close to the official one because Lawyers" but it wouldn't be the /same/.
>>44349451
I have never played Reign of Winter so I am unsure, but to my understanding it deals with the search for the Baba Yaga on a frozen continent. Mainly having to do with wilderness travel and the like.
Mine is far more urban, at least for the first two books. Pertaining to civilizations who live among a world of ice and try to scrape out an existence in such a world, and conspiracies by a powerful governing body to try and save their dying world. So more intrigue and urban, with the backdrop of frost and ice.
Does anyone have the old version of the Goetic, with all the feats instead of the stat-ups?
>>44349513
>Implying it's hard to whip up a convincing homebrew Viking world after a couple hours in Skellige and a read-over of the LotLK companion.
>>44349513
>>44349486
I was not planning on using anything on Golarion to begin with regardless.
I am reading more on the later books of reign of winter, and seem to have you traveling to earth in search of the Baba Yaga.
I think it is fairly different than the political intrigue and maneuvering of the Evengale Council as they try and route out their own corruption and find what little power there is left. In addition it will have old archeology of the dwarves finding things of the old world. Also the political intrigue of "The Garden" which will happen in book two.
Honestly it is hard to describe the AP fully, but I have made an outline of general concepts A to B. I will likely post them some time tonight, but from what I can see it does not share much with Reign of Winter besides temperature.
>>44349434
>This is why I was half-joking with it.
good savemy fellow /d/egenerate
>>44349513
Also, I must apologize. There will be no vikings.
>>44349581
The feats are still in the Ars Goetia feat after the horrors. The mechanics there haven't changed, aside from needing your own feats instead of getting them at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th.
If I might ask, why?
>>44349616
>ice
>no vikings
Unplayable.
>>44349616
>>44349632
It feels very, very feat-starved now; you basically HAVE to choose one horror and stick with it, rather than being able to have a multitude like before.
>>44349702
Can't you still spend feats to get the swappable feats for playing different horrors?The more I read this class the more I feel like it should just be its own class.It'd be really cool if we got new full classes along with archetypes. Is DSP planning that?
>>44349645
>>44349666
I think vikings are overdone.
>>44349666
>>44349645
>tfw that perfect LotLK campaign I was in is *still* dead and rotting
Two months later and I'm still mad.
>>44349775
Then clearly you need to reduce the cooking time.
Honestly, it's like you've never served man before.
>>44349775
>I think vikings are overdone.
Be honest, when's the last time you've seen a genuine attempt at a Viking campaign in tabletop?
Vikings are popular in media, but popular =/= overdone, and media =/= all tabletop.
Hello I am looking to get into RPG and pathfinder RPG in particular, I bought the beginner box and a set of chessex polyhedral dice, is there anything else I need to start playing? How do you find a play group, is there a web site or do i just have to go to every LGS in town and ask? My closest one does not have pathfinder or D&D products. The beginner's box is expected to arrive on new year's day.
>>44349702
And before it was pretty MAD. At least now, Ars Goetia exists as partial solution to feats. The MAD didn't really have a solution.
Anyway, bonus feats may make a return, particularly based on feedback saying they're necessary (or playing with them works out). But if they did, they would almost-certainly involve less choice than they did originally, just for the sake of the folks who don't want to build eight characters at once.
I realize that can be disappointing; obviously, seeing as I wrote it the original way, I tend to favor lots and lots of options, too. But right now, I'm pretty convinced that the original handling of bonus feats is going to be more negative for more people than the loss of some customization is going to be for those who liked the original.
But anyone who can report actual in-play testing is going to have a lot of clout when it comes to convincing me otherwise.
>>44349837
Yeah, but before it just GAVE you the feats. Why doesn't it do that anymore? It's a complex class yes, but it's flavorful and interesting all the same. Can you at least give the class Ars Goetia automatically once or twice, so that even without any extra investment there's some feat-i-ness to it?
>>44349829
Ok, first of all, be prepared to accept to role of GM if you need to make a group. You'll want to ask friends or put up a notice in your local shop to see about players.
If you are looking for an online game, try the gamefinder threads every now and again.
Second, be prepared for your first game to such as you learn the rops, both as a GM and as a group.
3rd, know the system and it's strengths/weaknesses. As most on /pfg/ will tell you, using only Paizo's stuff is a bad idea because of their general incompetence. We tend to recommend using Dreamscarred Press's Psionics and Path of War and Drop Dead Studio's Spheres of Power for a more balanced and fun game.
>>44349775
How will you deal with everyone being aasimar/tiefling/undine for the cold resistance?
>>44349906
Thanks. Is the imbalance mostly combat related? Because most of my friends would probably prefer a combat-light campaign to start with. I read that the core rulebook is pretty well balanced compared to the rest of it
>>44349963
More cold.
A deeper cold than they have ever known.
>>44349865
Right this moment, I want to leave it a bit to collect some more feedback on how it currently stands. If there is a problem with feat starvation, then I will work to alleviate that one way or another.
Oh, another thing to note: Psychokinesis now gets martial weapons, and Psychoportation gets Weapon Finesse. Those two seemed to be the ones most in need of feats (Psychometabolism may deserve something too, though), so I did give you at least a bump to get them going.
>>44349865
I think that trading your feats to build 7 characters is a more than fair trade.
>>44350049
Speaking of feats, doesn't item crafting require 8 hours of work per day? Metacreativity can't use those item creation feats.
>>44350004
No, it is in every facet.
In fact, it shows even more out of combat because when you have the classic 4 man band (Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Cleric), then the Fighter and Rogue rapidly become useless both in and out of combat because the other 2 (especially the Wizard, but the Cleric too) get spells to just solve any problem the Fighter/Rogue could ever hope to deal with and then all the things they can't.
>>44350072
> Speaking of feats, doesn't item crafting require 8 hours of work per day? Metacreativity can't use those item creation feats.
He can, with Horrific Cooperation. You could originally... but... OK, so that might need some reworking. Originally, that was an option for 20th level, but you can't retrain the feats with Ars Goetia.
Yeah, I'll have to think of something with those.
>>44350189
Maybe a "noncombat mode" where you can turn off most of your abilities for the horror, but bind it all day to craft or travel with.
>>44350221
My initial reaction to the idea is positive, anyway.
>>44349963
Have recommended racial bans in the front of the book, and a listing for how each species fit into the world.
>>44350004
>I read that the core rulebook is pretty well balanced compared to the rest of it
The most blatant fucking lie.
People have this perception for some reason that core is balanced, probably because they compare everything else to it.
>>44350381
>no tieflings, aasimar, or undines
Dropped.
>>44350515
The reason is the world has little to no extraplanar contact, and breeding between outsiders and mortals is simply not possible.
>>44350625
>breeding between outsiders and mortals is simply not possible.
First no vikings, now no cute Archon waifus?
>>44350625
Elves can still have cold resistance with an alternate racial trait.
>>44350625
>can't play qt fiend grl
Dropped
>>44350655
I mean yes, I'm not banning them because of cold resistance, I'm banning them for thematic reasons. I don't really care about cold resistance. Cold Resist 10 isn't a big deal when a lot of the game exists in an urban setting.
>>44350653
Truly I am a monster.
>>44350625
A lot of it is mechanics, though. Might I suggest giving alternate fluffs for races with mechanics you might otherwise not be able to get? Just have a PC using that race be an otherwise unique individual with a specific form of magic, or something.
I've done that before with a Sylph, as a "human" wind-mage with special powers beyond other air/wind/weather domain-focused clerics.
>>44350685
The only real thing I can see being locked away are favored class bonuses and racial archetypes. Though I can see the reasoning behind this.
I have to write a players guide for the AP regardless, so it may as well be included in there. I probably will bundle together all human offshoots and subraces if I decide to refluff them.
>>44350776
This all sounds terrible.
>>44350845
Don't worry, I'm terrible so it's fitting I make something terrible.
So, /pfg/. Now that we have a good ranged magus in the Eldritch Archer and the Empty Quiver feat chain, I'm wondering if we can finally make pic related.
Is there a way to get fast reloading and DEX to damage with a musket outside of five levels of Musket Master? That's a lot of caster levels to give up. Bonus points for 1pp only.
>>44350932
For the first, maybe see if you can take this thing and apply it to a normal gun?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/pistol-of-the-infinite-sky
Reverse-engineering the cost says the enchantment is 22,000gp
>>44350932
how does empty quiver interact with spellstrike/spell combat?
>>44350932
Depends how accurate you want to be. Technically Mami never reloads.
>>44351103
Refluffing that as a musket is one option, and not a bad one. To an extent, reloading is addressed by Empty Quiver Flurry, but it's maybe not the only thing you want to rely on.
>>44351110
For an Eldritch Archer, I don't think it changes anything with spell combat by RAW. Your ranged weapon is still a ranged weapon, you just can just hit people with it in melee effectively.
Spellstrike may not be affected at all. Empty Quiver mostly allows you to switch between melee and ranged without penalty, plus EQ Flurry lets you reload as a free action. If anything, this improves spellstriking with a firearm.
Interestingly, Ranged Spellstrike (the EA equivalent of Spellstrike) is stated to modify spellstrike to give you the ability to spellstrike ranged spells through a ranged attack, but it does not say anything about taking away your ability to spellstrike with melee attacks (it doesn't even mention melee). This is A) awesome, and B) probably a hell of an oversight.
>>44351110
Ranged Spellstrike called out for ranged attack.
So /pfg/ i'm going to be playing a Trueblood Sorcerer Taninim in our next game in a low magic setting. (Magic is supposed to be rarer, or regulated to areas with lots of dragons.)
I'm wondering how i should build this guy, i've actually never played a spellcaster before.
Other than In the Company of Dragons, We're using only 1pp. (third party material is on case by case basis.)
Do Savage Technologist get Dex-to-damage with their melee while using Empty Quiver Flexibility?
>>44351645
Interesting. Yes, it should since that feat specifically calls out class abilities modifying ranged attacks as applying melee attacks as well.
>>44351645
>>44351754
Actually wouldn't Gunslinger/Savage Technologist/Trench Fighter get both STR and DEX to damage?
Since their ability add Dex to damage but never replace STR
>>44351359
Doesn't Ranged Spellstrike replace spellstrike?
Does it not matter because Ranged Spellstrike specifically mentions the spellstrike ability?
>>44351789
STR isn't normally applied to ranged weapon damage except when using a composite longbow.
>>44351873
Ranged Spellstrike is stated to alter spellstrike, not replace it:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/eldritch-archer-magus-archetype
This is different from the language used in the Myrmidarch version of Ranged Spellstrike, which does replace Spellstrike:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/myrmidarch
>>44351924
We're talking about empty quiver melee attack brah.
So I'm playing pathfinder for the first time with some guys I've never met before. I'm really familiar with 3.5 but I've never even looked at pathfinder. Since I was a late addition to the party I need to make my character up and send it to our DM tonight. Only I'm really busy with christmas shit. Think you guys could help me out a little?
I hear Pathfinder has some trap options and shit that will make your character shit. Now I don't give two fucks about power gaming, I just don't want to be a complete waste of space for the party. I was thinking I would play some kinda archer? Can I just build a generic ranger? Is there anything I should keep in mind? Can I use crossbows well?
>>44347233
the Timeworn rule is pretty much "asshole GM doesn't want you to have shit" as a mechanical addition to the system.
You know the kind.
Those wands had EXACTLY however many charges were used. The spellbook didn't have those spells used against you written in it, only a handful of exactly whatever spells you also had... assuming it didn't combust from all the fire damage the fighter's nonflaming sword oneshot that wizard with. The dragon's horde is literally inaccessible. The artifacts are cutscened away by the gods or king or whatever.
The laser with a 20 shot capacity has only two shots left after the 3 full-auto bursts it fired at the party, and can never be recharged again.
>>44352096
Tell us about the premise of the campaign.
>I was thinking I would play some kinda archer?
As far as martials go, archery works well.
>Can I just build a generic ranger?
You could, although then you need to pick favored enemies and favored terrains, which is why I suggest you tell us about the campaign. Favored Enemy (Human) will be shit if it turns out you're going on extraplanar adventures and will likely never see humans aside from other PCs.
>Is there anything I should keep in mind?
Yeah, what the other players are running.
>Can I use crossbows well?
No, not in Pathfinder at least. They suffer from a real lack of support and the inability to add a stat to your damage with them or take iterative attacks without dropping feats into it, when archery is already a feat-intensive build.
>>44352096
Ranger is okay. Generally, don't looks at any class or archetype that doesn't have spells.
Crossbow is a trap option. It has no STR to damage, require 1-2 feats to catch up to what Bow has from start and doesn't has as many support as Bow (ie. Manyshot feat).
Personally, I would suggest Archer Bard or Archer Magus.
>>44352096
Here are some optimization guides:
>http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?233029-PF-Optimization-Guides-Compendium
If you want to make an archer, try the Slayer (Ranger/Rogue hybrid) or Eldritch Archer Magus (upgraded Duskblade)
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus
>>44352096
What's the rest of the party composition?
Anyway: avoid guns, all of them, they're all fucking useless. Crossbows are garbage too, just not quite as bad. Eldritch Archer Magus is a pretty interesting setup, but ranged combat is a massive feat sink so get ready for that.
>>44352218
Honestly I know very little, one guy is my math tutor, I happened to mention I like d&d and he asked me if I wanted to join a campaign with him and 4 friends then on the spot, this was yesterday. All I know is the party is a druid, an alchemist and a monk.
>>44352096
>>44352218
>>44352237
While crossbows are not optimal, the Bolt Ace gunslinger archetype does make them more viable:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/bolt-ace
(By the way, archetypes exist in Pathfinder. They're like prestige classes, except they modify regular classes and you don't have to wait to start them.)
>>44352277
it brings them closer to viable
but it's still shit.
you're still spending an entire class and archetype towards catching-up to what someone gets from just going "uh, I guess I'll pick up a bow".
>>44352277
Too bad after the stacking rule faqs, crossbow training lost half its efficiency.
>>44352276
That's enough to say that you might be happier playing a bard specializing in archery than a ranger, because you'll probably feel second fiddle to the druid as a ranger. They'll have better spells than you and a better animal companion. Not to say it would be impossible for you to have fun as a ranger, of course. But seeing as you don't know anything about the campaign itself, I'd avoid ranger because you don't know what would be a good choice for your Favored Enemy/Terrain.
Plus, your party looks like it's lacking a CHA-based character who can handle the job of party face.
>>44352316
>>44352341
Yes, and that's why I said "not optimal." If he's in a party with an alchemist and a monk, though, he may not have to worry about being the least effective person in the group.
>>44352369
But alchemist is very effective.
>>44352359
Ok cool thanks, I'll talk to the DM about it
>>44352369
> Alchemist
> least effective
What are you smoking?
>>44352390
The alchemist is effective if it's built well, especially at early levels where the bomb is hideously effective. Like bard, it offers plenty ways to be useless at medium levels and beyond.
>>44352359
You can even play one of the "selfish" Bard archetype like Dawnflower Dervish. Having tons of buff is very effective for bow.
>>44352448
Alchemical Allocation, Prepared caster with access to 6th level spell that can be prepare in 1 minute.
Nope, they will never be useless. Unless the player is idiot and never fill up their formula book or something.
>>44352448
>>44352452
I would also be cool playing a barbarian, are they any good in pathfinder? Or are all martials just meh?
>>44352554
They're the best martial and a good deal of fun. You'll be restricted to solving problem by hitting them until they die, but you still have 4+ skill ranks so invest them in relevant things.
>>44352554
Good as far as martials go, but you're still pretty much relegated to beatstick.
Which is the best Tiefling heritage for going Sorcerer?
Which is the best for Warpriest? Which is the best for Alchemist?
>>44352580
>>44352579
Do they get any neat abilities? Like I realize it will still all be kill shit abilities but I've been playing 5th edition lately and I like some of the shit they gave barbarians to make them feel distinct from fighters. Things like not wearing armour, the damage resistance while raging, certain rage benefits.
>>44352676
They do. First, you get rage powers:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers
Some archetypes also grant special abilities that can be used while raging (or out of it, in some cases):
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes
>>44352676
Well, aside from plenty of really good kill-shit abilities, they can get some neat abilities from rage powers like being able to cut spells in half (basically the coolest rage power IMO). There are a lot of archetypes for the class too, and while some of them are bad, some of them are also not so bad and give you neat things. It definitely feels different from playing as a Fighter IMO, even if you go unarchetyped and just pick the rage powers that make you better at kill things.
Also if you want to be an archer barbarian, invest in a magic property for your bow called Adaptive. It will make your bow's strength rating magically scale to always match your strength mod, which is important for a barbarian since your STR mod changes every time you start or stop raging.
>>44352676
You get a wide variety of rage powers to choose from for customization, there's some interesting stuff in there.
Look into bloodrager too, they're basically just barbarians that get various magical stuff when raging depending on the bloodline you pick.
>>44352878
>>44352872
>>44352888
Right, gonna see if the DM is cool with me being a barbarian then, these all sound sweet.
TFW I SUDDENLY GET VERY DRUNK.
AP ANON, I MIGHT ADVISE THAT YOU AVOID PLOT ELEMENTS THAT REQUIRE PLAYERS TO AVOID CONCEPTS, BOTH BECAUSE THAT'S SLOPPY STORYTELLING AND BECAUSE IT LIMITS APPEAL, SALES, AND PARTICIPATION.
>>44352950
Gareth, alcohol is bad for you!
can someone explain to me how martial disciplines work in PoW?
do I get to pick one on character creation and thats it or do I just kind of pick and choose maneuvers from the ones available to my class as I level up?
>>44353026
Anon, alcohol is Humanity's friend.
>>44352950
If you're drunk, I'd like to ask you about the possibility of a Harbinger archetype that runs on booze. Could it be done well, you think?
>>44353061
The second one.
Anything I should know about the pathfinder races?>>44352888
>>44352878
>>44352872
I'll be running my group through Legacy of Fire soon. I'm going to update it for Pathfinder and redo most of the enemies since we're playing 25 point buy.
Are there many suggestion anyone has or have heard about the AP that should get changed? I already know not to drag the party unwilling intogetting sucked into the scrolland I plan on swapping the 5th and 6th adventures, so the players aren't stranded for so long without being able to re-equip and end the game on a high note with the partyleading an assault on the Efreeti BBEG's palace in the City of Brass.
Any major changes or pitfalls to avoid you guys know about that AP?
>>44353061
>I just kind of pick and choose maneuvers from the ones available to my class as I level up
Also, you can enter a martial tradition to switch a discipline from your class out for the discipline associated with the tradition. AND you can choose maneuvers from outside your class with the Advanced Study feat.
>>44352950
Now I want to make my party face off against concepts.
>Sign on the dungeon reads "Beware of Recidivism"
"Shit, is that a monster's name?"
"Is it a clue?"
"I roll Sense Motive to determine if that's a metaphor for something."
>>44353089
humans win
>>44353061
>>44353072
In PoW:E, the classes and archetypes have disciplines added to them. You can also take the combat trait "Unorthodox Style," or join a martial tradition to exchange a style.
>>44353072
Depends on why you're boozing. Drinking to avoid your problems is very Ravenlord. A drunken depression type could be theoretically interesting but would be almost begging for an alternate recovery type. Are you okay with losing alll the Claim goodies for it?
Almost feels like it'd be better for Warlord.
>>44353106
I was going to run it once, but /pfg/ heavily suggested I pick a different AP and my players were more interested in some of the other APs I was willing to run, so I ended up never doing anything with it. I know that's not very helpful, but my point is that apparently /pfg/ thinks there's something wrong with Legacy of Fire, which seemed pretty cool to me at first glance at least.
>>44353072
so basically my dude knows all these disciplines at the start and I don't have to do anything to gain them?
so, for example, at level 1 lets say I can know 1 stance and 2 maneuvers
I could select the Pride Leader's Stance from golden lion
Crushing Blow from Primal Fury and
Scything Strike from Scarlet Throne?
no limits as long as my class has those Disciplines I can mix and match them as much as I want?
>>44353132
>Iconic Mystic
So cute.
>>44353128
Am I shooting myself in my foot being a half orc barbarian? I'm thinking plagueborn Half Orc for fluff reasons. Filled with disease and dying so I have no fear of death and just fearlessly rage into battle.
>>44353121
>>44353180
not at all. half orc is a solid race.
So can someone explain something to me?
I've been seeing a lot of fawning over certain campaigns in these Generals; Oriental Adventures this, Land of the Linnorm Kings that, even some Glory of Taldor thrown in there.
But I've yet to see anyone even try at making the campaign, or work out how to find a DM that would. It honestly makes me think you guys love the CONCEPT of these campaigns, but nothing more.
>>44353151
I was thinking more like drunk depression type, yes. I don't want to sound like this is something I've given a lot of thought to though, I literally just came up with it as I was reading your last post. I agree it would be interesting with a different recovery type though, but to be honest I don't know the Harbinger very well because I've only recently started using PoW and haven't looked at much outside of the base book yet... So I'm not sure how to work something thematically fitting in yet. Do you already have an idea for an alternate recovery mechanic in mind?
>>44353202
Thank you for posting this. Now I don't have to go digging for it so I can post it.
>>44353262
If (IF) I had a very, very good group, and they would agree to an E6 game so that the campaign didn't end with players being level 20 super-gods that can't be challenged or given more content to play through, then maybe I might take a group through a campaign that ended with them in Tian-XIa, and then continued with ongoing adventures in the lands of NotChina.
The problem is, there isn't enough setting information to write a whole campaign in any of the areas there without just making up junk.
>>44353262
I only like adapting APs for my own game world, but if I were to run something in Golarion itself, I would totally run a Glory of Taldor game.
>>44353165
Yes, but some of the higher level maneuvers require knowing some of the lower level maneuvers for a prerequisite.
You can also take Advanced Study to learn maneuvers from other disciplines.
>>44353323
Eh. E10 is where I take things. 10th level is high enough that nothing in the book will be able to kill them outright, but low enough that things will remain a challenge well into the upper CRs and long running games.
>>44353323
>so that the campaign didn't end with players being level 20 super-gods that can't be challenged or given more content to play through
Campaigns *never* hit level 20, senpai, and when they approach anywhere close to that number the PCs should be fighting Behemoths and Kaiju.
If you're going to let the PCs have all the shiny toys, let them know you're going to start swinging hard at them - and this time with a good solid wooden bat, not one of those wiffle things.
>>44353398
But you can't start a new campaign at level 10 and expect it to go anywhere, because the players are way out of the level range of any normal human NPCs.
So they're still the strongest people alive fighting the strongest people alive with no potential for weaker enemies to ever pose a threat.
At level 6, a couple level 2 Thugs could still feel like a fight. An easy fight, but one where someone might sustain some damage.
>>44353307
NOT NECESSARILY.
However, I might suggest you look both at the Harbinger's recovery and the feats that key from it. Essentially the Harbinger gets /a/ maneuver back for a Swift when they want it, and then IM maneuvers when the guy they marked dies. This means their "primary" recovery is potentially actionless, as teammates might trigger it.
I'd almost want drunken depression harbinger to drink to recover or otherwise do something relating to their substance abuse problem, but how would we match the original?
ANONS, I SUMMON THEE.
HELP US CREATE THE WEEPING VINTNER.
>>44353421
I don't think you're literate enough to participate in this conversation, Anon.
>>44353446
nor you. he perfectly addressed you.
>>44353432
Then have the campaign take place in the Forgotten Realms, Planescape, or wherever Dark Sun takes place.
>>44353436
I'd rather make a harbinger of benign indifference.
>>44353505
>Forgotten Realms, Planescape, or wherever Dark Sun takes place.
Pass.
>>44353492
No he didn't. "Campaigns don't hit level 20 so if they get there just hit them harder" is not remotely a response to the claim that a campaign played within the normal confines of leveling allows players to reach a point where their characters literally can do nothing but retire because it is not possible to challenge them, and that limiting that to a lower-powered ceiling creates characters who never get significantly more powerful than the world around them, meaning you can always start a new adventure no matter how long they've been playing, and they never have to retire.
>>44353505
aaaawwwyeaaaah.
the planes how they were meant to be.
>>44353565
>No he didn't. "Campaigns don't hit level 20 so if they get there just hit them harder" is not remotely a response to the claim that a campaign played within the normal confines of leveling allows players to reach a point where their characters literally can do nothing but retire because it is not possible to challenge them, and that limiting that to a lower-powered ceiling creates characters who never get significantly more powerful than the world around them, meaning you can always start a new adventure no matter how long they've been playing, and they never have to retire.
Do you realize how long it takes to hit level 20 if you start at level 3-4? We're talking a solid year or more before the game starts to break down.
What kind of campaign are you running where it needs to run for 2-3 years? By the time you hit level 15 just fucking wrap it up.
>>44353432
Why the fuck are we playing high fantasy games to get threatened by street thugs again?
>>44353565
>No he didn't.
I thought I did, anon.
I'm saying E6 is the sign of a lazy DM that is incapable of challenging their players and would rather put an artificial limit on their character advancement than figure out workarounds to their rising power levels, and when the power levels become too high just find a way to finish the campaign.
Don't treat your players like idiots. Give them all the toys they need to build their dream character, and then throw everything you've got at them until you run out of options, and *then* give them a happy(?) ending.
>>44353641
My favorite encounter that I have ever ran was the time my players got the shit kicked out of them by two thugs. There were the top hired muscle of a crime boss. My players thought they'd just be like level 3 warriors despite knowing that this was a cartel that ran business up and down the entire coast.
The two of them were a Magus & Alchemist, ended up beating the PCs unconscious before dragging them in front of the big boss.
>>44353641
Since when were thugs not relevant foes in D&D?
>>44353626
>Do you realize how long it takes to hit level 20 if you start at level 3-4?
Depends on the DM. With me, it would take probably 3 years, just because I like really slow-paced campaigns.
But that's not really the point. My point was, I wouldn't want to START a campaign in Tian-Xia because it's just too exotic of a setting to make mundane by setting a whole campaign there. It's more interesting if it's the end goal, and then they get to explore it once they get there.
>>44353626
>Why the fuck are we playing high fantasy games to get threatened by street thugs again?
Because the "high fantasy" has always been the worst part of D&D. The mechanics break down, the players lose touch with the world, and there's no reason for them to be involved in anything because they're untouchable and better than everyone in the universe.
It's boring.
>>44353680
>I'm saying E6 is the sign of a lazy DM
Every person on the planet will tell you that E6 is literally the only logical solution to the huge list of problems with Pathfinder.
>and then throw everything you've got at them until you run out of options, and *then* give them a happy(?) ending.
What if we want to keep playing those characters? What if they're enjoyable enough that the group doesn't want to retire them? They want to be like any adventure novel character where they just keep going and having new adventures?
>>44353578
See >>44295323
>>44353729
since level 13
>>44353432
Considering the average street thug of my campaign world is a sixth level Hidden Blade Rogue, yes it will.
>>44353765
I assume all babies are 4th level Wizards too?
>>44353436
I agree, they oughta find their maneuvers in the bottom of a bottle, that's just thematically appropriate for it. I'll have to take some time to study the class more and see what sort of ripple effects removing the potentially actionless recovery method from the Harbinger would have. If I recall, taking a drink from something is a standard action, although that's assuming you've already got it in hand. Unless they gained benefits from actively carrying a bottle of wine/vodka/beer/yourdrinkofchoice in their hand, it almost seems like that would be unworkable. Maybe they just need to have alcohol in their system in order to use their maneuver recovery? Alternatively... Maybe they can recover maneuvers like a normal harbinger but can also recover them even more effectively if they're doing so while drunk (the trade off being the penalties for being drunk, in other words the sickened condition). They could get some other conditional benefits while drunk that make it more enticing, so that when you know a fight is coming you're encouraged to quickly chug a few drinks, but also some sober abilities so that when ambushed while sober they still play a bit differently than a normal harbinger.
Hey guys, I am currently working on a homebrew archetype for the Skald and am currently working and spitballing ideas amongst myself.
I would like your input on one particular aspect though. If you could replace thier Scribe Scroll bonus feat with anything at all, what would it be?
>>44353734
>Every person on the planet will tell you that E6 is literally the only logical solution to the huge list of problems with Pathfinder.
But I *want* to play with the higher level maneuvers of a Warder, though.
>>44353785
Hardly. Typically, people of certain ability hit their maximum level and plateau.
Common Array (13 12 11 10 9 8) can hit 6, and then gain feats afterwards. Elite Array can hit 8, and the gain feats afterwards. Heroic Array can hit 10, and then gain feats afters. Hitting 6th level is not a sign of great experiences - it's a sign of having some basic level of competence, enough that you are effective at your job a reasonable amount of the time. It's the getting feats part that represents experience, the levels are only a cap on basic competence (and most people reach their level of competence).
Max level is expected to be hit early. There might be some 15 year olds with only 1 level in Rogue, but they're not the guys who are the thugs trusted with actual jobs, they're the dumb kids robbing convenience stores with a knife.
>>44353180
Human win because it's good at being any class in the game.
Half-Orc and Half-Elf are pretty cool too since by the rule they can choose racial specific thing from both of their heritage.
>>44353870
I'm sure you want to cast Wish and fight Cthulu too.
>>44353861
That depends entirely on what this archetype is all about
>>44353919
No, I don't.
With that in mind, how can I get those juicy higher level maneuvers?
>>44353578
>>44353740
Personally I do kinda like Pathfinder's approach of having the elemental planes be shells spreading outward too.
>>44353919
And what's wrong with that?
>>44353921
Well, mostly I want to make it an homage to The Dagda from the old Irish mythologies, and have it involve the cunning use of weaving words and verse to affect his surroundings as if her were narrating reality.
Granted this is going to be much more tame than Dagda, and I still want it to be support focused so one could still be both effective yet not overbearing in a team of raiders and warriors
>>44353919
Maybe they just want to play a big goddamn hero? E6 doesn't exactly lend itself to making your character anything more than a particularly powerful humanoid.
>>44354183
There's nothing wrong with wanting to play big dumb heroes. I'm just saying, the mechanics are bloated, clumsy, and not conducive to good storytelling.
You know what is the bane of a well-paced campaign narrative? Being on an experience track.
>>44353691
Why does the crime boss of a region (a coast is a region) have superhumans for muscle?
>>44354256
>You know what is the bane of a well-paced campaign narrative?
A plane crashing with no survivors?
>>44354256
Depends on the narrative you're trying to push.
E6 can totally work with a gritty urban romp, but I doubt it will work when you're going for something like the Land of the Linnorm Kings or even a Glory of Taldor campaign.
>>44350298
Why not baked-in feat chains for the horrors, or just bonus psionic feats for the class, and people taking bonus psionic feats could thusly -choose- to take Ars Goetia? I've noticed the class doesn't really get a lot of material at odd levels (at least compared to even numbered levels), so maybe a bonus psionic or combat feat at 3, and every 4 levels thereafter? (3, 7, 11, 15, 19)
Are there any good thrown weapon build? I really wants to use Startoss style...
I'm desperate enough that Far Strike Monk looks like an attractive option...
