> "I heard from a contact on Mars, Jaghatai, that you do strange things to your ships."
The Khan shot him a heavy-lidded stare. "I heard from a contact that you do strange things to your warriors."
Why is Jaghatai so fucking based?
>>44343132
>low-hanging fruit of an insult makes somebody "based"
Because 40k writers are hacks.
As funny as it is, I never quite got why The Khan said that to Fulgrim. I didn't take Fulgrim's remark as an insult, more of an honest inquiry.
Was he autistic?
>>44343198
If a prissy faggot was insinuating shit based on his gossip sessions with his faggy buttbuddies, you'd be a kuck if you don't tell him off. Jaghatai is a man's man, and that's what he did.
>>44343212
He was a Primarch, so yes.
>>44343132
Because he has the sexiest boots. I mean look at them.
>>44343132
>>Why is Jaghatai so fucking based?
Because he believed distance from the throne made him immune to the Council of Nicea, thus showing him as a completely unloyal piece of shit.
Because his best moments are just one liners.
Because we haven't reached the "Surfing on a Razorback into battle" moment yet in the siege of terra.
Hopefully he gets his shit together by then. because he is pretty irrelevant right now.
>>44343159
The peacock had been making jabs at him and some of the other primarchs the entire conversation. It was fairly justified. It's just a good thing Sanguinius was there to keep everyone from coming to blows
>>44343410
But that doesn't make him "based". "Based" is defending the Emperor's throne room for several days against an army of daemons.
>>44343386
I'm pretty sure you can count the primarchs that actually followed the rulings of Nicea on one hand. Almost everyone thought it was a poor decision and Khan was an incredibly pragmatic man. As for him being unloyal, he had fundamental disagreements with the direction the imperium was going but still stayed true to his father.
>>44343386
The Council of Nikea was merely to shut Russ up, who by the way was its greatest, most hypocritical violator. Every Primarch with half a brain knew not using Libbies ever was dumb. Jaghatai did nothing wrong.
>>44343446
>"I am the sole purveyor of what constitutes 'based' behavior."
>>44343386
Could be worse, could be Vulkan, simultaneously irrelevant and hit with maximum stupid by BL
And I think it was a Land Raider, Razorbacks weren't officially invented for a few thousand years (unless they changed that)
I started playing DA during the 2nd edition, and up until recently I thought the Lion was pretty based, but now that I'm halfway through reading the second DA book in the HH series he just comes across as the worst primarch ever.
>>44343573
This is why we don't read the HH books.
>>44343468
>>44343497
The council was because Mortarion fought deamons and warp cults during the Crusade and the Primarchs were coming close to the truth about Chaos. Mortarion did perhaps the most rational and appropriate thing, he petitioned the Emperor to consider the issue and rule on it. Russ was just a whiny bitch.
The emperor heard both sides of the discussion and made his discussion and made a formal decree for the legions...
How on earth was this ever acceptable to ignore?
Disobeying a direct order from your emperor is not "doing nothing wrong". Its actually anything but.
Khan, for all his pros and oneliners didn't have to mind to actually listen to his emperor when it wasnt convenient to him.
>>44343132
Its a good line, but that's not why the Khan is based.
The Khan is based because he did his job without bitching. He put more value on actions than deeds.
Second favorite Primarch, due to his tactical choices. Not a blitzkrieg kind of person.
>>44343584
It's partially due to shitty writing, but still, he might have been a great strategist and tactician but as a leader of men he was pure shit. Unless the explanation is yet to come in the book it seems that he, without explanation, sends many of the most accomplished of his warriors back to Caliban to babysit recruits.
>>44343613
But who actually did listen to the Emperor's ruling? Russ? No he still had his rune priests. Morty? Nope he turned to chaos.
>>44343748
Mort actually did disband his Libarium. But he turned against the Golden Tyrant so its moot.
>>44343661
I think the explanation had something to do with Luther, who he had trusted, being ready to let him die out of jealousy. After that, he sent everyone Luther had vouched for away because he couldn't trust any of them anymore. The fact that he was handing Luther an army with a grudge probably didn't register.
>>44344065
>I think the explanation had something to do with Luther, who he had trusted, being ready to let him die out of jealousy
Luther felt that way for a split second in the hangar, but there was no way that the Lion could have known about it.
>>44344159
>>44344159
>there's no way a latent psyker with an apparent genetic predisposition toward paranoia and persecution complex could know that he was nearly betrayed
I kid, of course. But while it might not have been that particular episode, Luther and the Lion had a pretty harsh argument afterwards that led to the banishment. So that sense of "I can't trust the guy who told me who to trust" probably did exist.
>>44344898
The Lion was a latent psyker? As I said I'm only halfway through the second HH book about the DA, but so far nothing in my long career of 40k has pointed towards him being psychic (unless you mean the fact that all primarchs had precognitive abilities to some extent)
>>44344159
Read the new Wolf King novella about Russ- there is a shocking amount of Dark Angels revelation at the end.
>>44345988
What kind of revelations? No need to spoil specifics (although I won't begrudge you for using one as an example).
>>44346048
Dark Angels are closet homosexuals
>>44346048
There are First Legion "castles", Ramilles-class star forts with fleet detachments and a thousand or two troops, scattered in multiple locations. The Lion apparently told Luther to build an army and he was apparently very enthusiastic in his task.
>>44346195
Guess I need to read it then.
>>44343446
>But that doesn't make him "based"
No, what makes him based is raiding the traitors lines over and over a top a fucking land raider and make their reinforcements got a taste of wheels on fire to the fucking face.
>>44345988
Is that part of the HH series or something seperate?
>>44343497
Why are you so cucked about Russ? Mortarion was the driving force behind Nikea
Fulgrim is all pretense, and Jaghatai is all about taking the low-hanging fruit.
I like how they're both guys who pointedly appreciate art and beauty in things, yet you couldn't have more different philosophies behind why. But, they're both incredibly entertaining to read about.
>>44343584
I've read every single one of them, minus the exclusive novellas and audiobooks.
Some of them are pretty crap, yeah, and lots of the primarchs have a serious "tell, don't show" thing going with regards to their attributes. For some reason, this seems to apply most often to the loyalists. Even the less likable traitor primarchs, like Perturabo, get shown fully immersed in their element.
I'm still waiting to see guys like the Lion and Sanguinius become relatable as characters beyond "big shiny leader guy who fights good". It's especially bad with Lion, because for some reason he's gotten two fucking books and a novella named for him.
>>44343523
>just because i think it that means its right
You've got low fucking standards if a "well you're gay" comeback constitutes "based" for you.
>>44343468
If the outcome of the Horus Heresy weren't already known to the audience, Scars would actually have been a pretty suspenseful novel, in terms of whether or not the Khan ultimately decided to stick with the Emperor.
As it was, it probably did the best it could, and Jaghatai came off as a pretty cool dude.
>>44346788
I agree with all of thiis
>>44346660
He's probably annoyed that Russ is such a giant hypocrite when it comes to Psykers. The way Russ denounced Liberians but continued using Rune Priests, which are the same damn thing, has earned Russ a lot of hate.
>>44343132
What does he do to his ships?
>>44346660
Longtime (2nd Ed) Wolves player here. Hating Russ and the Wolves is baked into /tg/ culture. We live with it.
>>44348171
All about dem ridiculously overpowered engine modifications. Speed above all.
>>44348224
>Hating Russ and the Wolves is baked into /tg/ culture. We live with it.
That only really started with the 5th edition codex. I remember the very marked change in /tg/'s attitude to Space Wolves after that.
>>44348384
Isn't that the point where the wolf got turned to 11 out of a possible 5?
>>44348613
Yeah, but that is just typical Gee Dubs fuckery. It happens to all the popular units at least once.
Could be worse. After Rogue Trader, GW insisted that the Dark Angels were green. That is advanced fuckery.
>>44349090
That was a shame, their old scheme was nice. At least one of their successors is using it.
>>44343159
>Easymode insult is the opiate of the meta-masses.
>>44348249
The best scene in Scars is where the White Scars use this to fuck with the Alpha Legion.
Yes, trolling the biggest trolls.
>>44346788
I kind of like this approach for Sanguinius, because his simplicity is what makes him The Angel. He's not caught up in his hobbies, he's not worried about jockeying for position. He's a little self conscious about having big freaky mutant wings but, hey, if you've gotta be a big freaky mutant that's about as good as you can get.
Sanguinius is the Lion if the Lion could just relate to people. Sanguinius is Gulliman if Gulliman could stop looking at spreadsheets for five seconds. Sanguinius is Dorn if Dorn could just take the goddamn stick out of his ass for once in his life
He's just a great guy. Is that so much to ask? That one of them just be a great guy?
>>44352427
Khan was pretty great too actually.
>>44352443
Sure, for an asshole
>>44352473
In which way was he an asshole?
His biggest problem is that he wanted to hunt more than talk to anyone. If he wanted to bro-out with other Primarchs Khan would rival Sangy for most based.
>>44352509
Guy was just insulting. His fanboys think it's all great fun, but to people like Corax or Fulgrim he was just a bitter turd
I mean sure the GOOD BURN is SO BASED but it also makes you an asshole and you've gotta live with being an asshole
Sanguinius was like your one brother that would let you borrow money without punching you in the arm
Jaghatai is like your one brother that is great to party with but you gotta keep that guy on the other side of the room from Russ before a table gets flipped
>>44348384
7 only made it worse with santa
>>44348384
I'd say A Thousand Sons did the worst damage
Or maybe I should say Prospero Burns did the worst damage, since it was just so terrible and ATS was so great
>>44352582
lay off the eggnog friendo
>>44352779
TIS THA SEASON
>>44343132
>"I heard from a contact that you do strange things to your warriors."
what did he mean though? before the Heresy the controversial enhancements were secret even among the EC captaincy (Saul and Lucius didn't know about them at least).
so what is the Khan referring to here?
>>44352957
I assumed he meant fucking. Unless the EC are terrible at keeping secrets.
>>44352979
Pre Heresy they were tight as a drum, even bigger sticklers for protocol than Dorn
>>44353064
>Pre Heresy they were tight as a drum
Probably why Fulgrim fucked his soldiers.
>>44352768
>TS marines teaching taichi in the park
>precog waiters at the restaurant
>everyone is super nice and friendly all the time in a warhams story
>every new age esoteric bullshit crammed into the story because HURR DURR MAH OCCULTIST SPACE MARINES
>longest book in the series so far, yet the Council of Nikea and the battle for Prospero - literrally the main events of the story - crammed into the last two chapters.
tell me again, how was ATS great?
>>44352509
Khan was like a biker. He was a space biker. He and his gang rode around ignoring the rules they chose, fucking shit up for fun. They stuck loosely to their intended purpose as much out of loyalty as it was what they liked to do.
And just like a biker bro, they could be awesome guys to have as friends, but what an ass if your not in his good books.
>>44353097
>you will never sit in on a space marine hot yoga session
>>44353097
It set up a convincing argument for Magnus Did Nothing Wrong. some people loved the fluff, some people hated it, but everybody had to admit that, from the view of ATS, Magnus did the right thing. Magnus's flaw was not that he disobeyed the Emperor, but that he didn't stand up to Russ until it was too late.
Prospero Burns was written from the ASSUMPTION that Russ Did Nothing Wrong, but it doesn't ever flesh it out. Why does Russ hate magic but have shamans? "Volka Fenryka custom" What justifies this custom? "Volka Fenryka custom" So what justifies THAT custom? "Volka Fenryak custom"
Abnett couldn't care less about explaining why Russ was right, he just assumed the reader would assume Russ was right.
>>44353201
And like a true biker, if he wanted to talk shit, he talked some shit. he didn't hold back on anybody's account.
>>44353097
it was because of the start contrast to the actual feel of the rest of 40k
here we have a wonderful place. a place of beauty, a center of learning, all in all, a nice place
then you have the savage, filthy fucking wolves descend from out of nowhere. ripping and killing and raping this wonderful place, because you cannot have anything nice in this universe
in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is only war and the laughter of the chaos gods.
plus, what >>44353228 said
>>44353228
the biggest problem with PB was that half the book was about Remembrancer faggot nobody and the demon manipulating him with Abnett's ripoff truename magic and only remembered to be about the Wolves from time to time, and completely forgot their rivalry with the Sons apart from a chapter or two.
Then between Abnett'sw workload and his seizures getting bad around that time as a consequence the book was shit.
>>44353303
Yeah I think Abnett at a different time, or even a different author altogether, could have really changed how people view Russ and Magnus
>>44347987
Russ explained the difference between what the Thousand sons do and what his rune priests do several times. Fuck even his man wyrdmake did at the council of Nikea.
>>44353228
Russ hates magic because he views it as dishonorable. Mortarion was the main guy behind Nikea though
>>44343132
Khan and Magnus were apparently besties. Kinda the last guy you'd expect to be friends with him, since he's pretty much the only primitive/warrior Primarch who doesn't have a hateboner for psykers and intellectuals.
>>44355207
The problem is that Russ' justification is bullshit nonsense coming from a moron who doesn't know what psykers or psyker powers really are.
>>44353228
Russ was right though
>>44352582
Why are you so upset that someone insulted your waifu Fulgrim when he was being a dick?
>>44355387
His point is not who was right, spaceyiff, but that Abnett didn't bother explaining to the audience why he would be. If you don't justify your hero's actions, then if they're particularly brutal, it's not going to endear them to the readers. You need to work at it, and explain.
>>44355387
Why?
"Volka Fenryka custom"
>>44355207
No, he didn't, he just said "Volka Fenryka custom"
You can't just say your sorcerers aren't sorcerers "because we don't call them that"
>>44355999
To be fair, most of the Space Wolves really truly believed it worked like that. It's hard to blame them considering how steeped in tradition they are and how completely ignorant most of the Legions were about the Warp.
Not saying they didn't look like complete morons when they made their case, but there you go.
>>44356095
You can blame Russ for being an ignorant fuck and pissing on his brothers based on his own ignorance.
>"Yiff yiff yiff! I demand you bail me out of the Alpha Legion's ambush, Jaghatai Khan!"
>"Fuck you dogfucker! You killed my best friend! You're the reason my Legion's seen as savages! You ruined our Librarium project! Fight your own battles, queer!"
Based as fuck.
>It's a Russ hate thread
>>44356095
That's like saying that if a violent, gay bashing homophobe really truly believes that it's not gay when he has sex with men, then you can't blame him for his actions and he's not a total hypocritical piece of shit. "Really truly believing" your own bullshit doesn't justify treating other people like garbage. Also, Russ and the wolves weren't just ignorant, they were willfully-ignorant. There was evidence disproving Russ and multiple primarchs, not just Magnus, knew the truth about the rune priests. Russ just refused to listen.
>>44356279
Exactly this
>>44358449
Keep telling yourself Russ hasn't earned the hate. Your butthurt is visible from here.
>>44343497
>who by the way was its greatest, most hypocritical violator.
>Psychic powers are evil and no marine should use them
>What? Oh n-no they're using runes, it's completely different
>>44349090
>That is advanced fuckery.
It's kind of appropriate though.
>>44355999
Yeah, that was just one more screw up in the long line of HH series screw ups.
In 40k fluff there is an actual difference between imperial psykers and sorcerers. Psykers are trained to subdue the warp and forcefully extract its power while Sorcerers make bargains with daemons for more power and easier access to it
Magnus was a sorcerer while most SM librarians were trained psykers. In the old fluff, the Emperor very clearly outlawed any psyker who was not trained by Imperial authorities. The point here is very clear: "We want to control the warp, not make a deal with it". Old fluff ended Nikaea as a compromise - yes to psykers but no to the sort of unrestricted access that Magnus wanted.
But then HH came along and ruined it along with much else.
>>44343277
After reading that post I imagine that you look like a really short but buff guy who tries to look macho all the time and hates on gay people, but secretly when you are alone you masturbate to men and traps then cry yourself to sleep.
>>44359272
Are you writing a fapfic in-thread Fulgrim?
>>44359272
Dude. Projecting much?
>>44355369
He's not wrong, though. Even the Khan outright says to Magnus: "Magnus, man. I told you - There has to be a limit. There's such a thing as too far. Look at all this. Look at what happened. Shit be fucked up now."
>>44359486
>He's not wrong.
No, Russ is wrong. Russ hated all psykers, yet he used them himself. He's in the wrong here. Is Magnus wrong for doing sorcery? Yes, but that specifically wasn't Russ' problem. He attacked all of it, while blithely ignoring it and using them himself.
>>44359504
It *was* sorcery that blew up the Webway portal, however. Russ was only right because events proved him out, but he was still right.
>>44343613
>Mortarion did perhaps the most rational and appropriate thing
>Russ was just a whiny bitch
See this is why thousand son fag are the worst Russ and Mortarion do exactly the same thing and in the same sentence you call one whiny and one appropriate
>>44359504
The difference is that the shamans of Fenris drew their power from Fenris itself. Their powers were primal and pure. They trained themselves to guard against the dangers and impurities of the Warp. The Emperor allowed Russ to maintain his shamans and this is a evidence that he approved.
Magnus's and the Thousand Sons sorcery was straight up daemonic and tainted. The Thousand Sons had no idea from where they dragged their powers.
>>44359561
The Thousand Sons had a lot of shit that was out of control. For instance, all their Tutelaries were daemons. DAEMONS. They had absolutely no idea that it was a thing.
>>44359552
No, Russ was wrong. Christ, fanboy. That Magnus fucked up doesn't make Russ right to attack psykers in general or the Librarian project, nor for him to keep using Psykers when he bitched and whined and wanted to kill everyone else for doing it.
>>44359561
>The difference is that the shamans of Fenris drew their power from Fenris itself.
That's bullshit. They're warp powers. From the warp. It's a psyker tradition.
The emperor ignored it because the emperor was away from the front and wasn't paying attention to anyone. It's how all the Heresy bullshit started. Emps also didn't care about the psyker ban in particular, it was meant to appease the idiots who hated them and keep Magnus from busting the webway, nothing more.
>>44359561
There's gonna be a c'tan or greater daemon or something contained in Fenris. Wait and see.
No fucking way there's this untainted pure power source of psyker energy just there and free to use.
>>44359580
Core point right now is that I want the Russfags to understand that I'm not defending Magnus. Thinking Russ is a cunt and a hypocrite is not agreeing with Magnus. Saying "B-but Magnus!" doesn't excuse any of Russ' views or actions.
>>44357808
Remove fic pls
>>44358889
>Your butthurt is visible from here
Says the guy who wrote the tirade about his hate-husbando
>>44343132
So whats the joke supposed to be, that Fulgrim is gay?
Because yeah, and water is wet, what's your point?
>>44359702
Fulgrim's in the closet so calling him gay pisses him off.
>>44343132
Anyway, hate-boners for Russ aside the Real reason for Jaghatai's basedness is the fact that that Black Library haven't heard of him.
>>44359702
"Hey, biker Khan. You're modifying your vehicles. That's bad."
>"And you're banging your comrades. No fucking shit I'm modifying my ride. Space pot, space kettle, Salamander."
That's partially what he's saying. "No shit." Like accusing Magnus of maybe doing bad psyker stuff or Sanguinius of perhaps having mutant bird wings.
For those who think the Big E didn't know or approve of Fenris and its traditions, Chris Wraight had more evidence in Wolf King.
Russ offered to leave Fenris and settle elsewhere, telling the Emperor that Fenris could never support the sort of army the Emperor would need. Fenris is a sparsely inhabited planet, basically a Death World.
Instead the Emps told him to stay there, that Fenris and what it brought was important.
>>44359486
>>44359552
You are so full of shit. Russ said Space Marines should not use Psykers and he condemned others for using them but then he turned around and used Psykers himself. That is complete hypocrisy and Russ was in the wrong for doing it. People like you are the reason Russ, the Space Wolves, and space wolf fans are hated. You obsessively defend your precious space puppies insisting that they have not flaws and can do no wrong. You ignore any fluff that doesn't show your beloved dog boys in the most positive light possible. People say that Matt Ward turned the Ultra Marines and Grey Knights into insufferable mary sues but what you and others have done to the Space Wolves is many times worse.
>>44358449
Hey asshole, you see this >>44359486
>>44359552 this shit is why Russ gets so much hate on /tg/
>>44359684
Actually that is a very crude distillation of the dialogue in Scars.
>>44359095
‘Do not think I grieve for Magnus,’ Russ muttered. There was animus there still. ‘Do not make that mistake. He was executed, and that was what we were charged to do.’ His fingers dragged through Geri’s nape, harder now. ‘Magnus was a bastard. Magnus was a liar. Magnus would look you in the eye and lecture you while he blundered through the immaterium like a raging konungur. Hel, we always knew more than him – what to touch, what not to touch. Our bone-rattlers knew more than him. There’s intelligence, and there’s hubris. I don’t grieve for Magnus, not for a second. I’d do it again.’
From Wolf King
>>44359746
Worth noting that Space Wolves geneseed doesn't work on other populations. That's not directly supporting anything Russ did, that's telling him to stay on the only planet that makes his legion possible.
>>44359768
>Magnus was a bastard. Magnus was a liar. Magnus would look you in the eye and lecture you while he blundered through the immaterium like a raging konungur
Holy fuck, that pot and kettle.
>>44359588
The runes.
Images carved into ever-firelit stone and iron, crude to the casual eye, but then they were never carved for the attention of casual eyes. Those of the Vlka Fenryka knew how to look at them, how to read them, how to mark the balance and the weight and the under-meaning.
No Fenrisian sigil had a horizontal stroke – every incision was vertical or diagonal, gouged out by the tip of a burin or a killing blade. The greatest shape-smiths of the ice world, the volundr, spent as long crafting their tools as they did etching the sacred sigils, for the tools were charged with marking the blank screens of wood, stone, metal or bone with devices that would last for eternity. The creators breathed out the name of the rune as they worked, hunched amid shadows, fixing the contour of it against the material, binding two souls together, creating something greater than the mark and the marked.
It could take a decade to complete an inscription. If an error was made, the wood would be burned, the stone smashed, the metal melted, the bone shattered. The volundr embellished the meaning-bearing script with knotwork patterns, traced in razor-slender lines around the ranked rows of sigils, calling up the souls of wyrms, of eyeless creatures from the Fenrisian deep-dark, of black-barked yews, of venerated blades of renown. No cut was made without deliberation and no symbol was idly chosen, for the lattice of sigils and emblems carried its own meaning.
The Fenryka knew, as they had always known, that the cuts warded against the soul-eaters, for the under-realm was made of ideas, and every idea was a word, and every word had its rune.
Thus the work was not decoration. It was metaphysics.
>>44359805
All I'm seeing is self-justification for hypocrisy. You can quote the Wolves all you want, the fact of the matter is that they used Psyker powers, and they wanted to kill other people for using Psyker powers, because they thought they were special and not Psykers. Hypocrites.
>>44359792
What pot? The Rune Priests didn't fall to Chaos.
The Thousand Sons and Magnus's ignorance of the Warp caused them to fall to Chaos. They were summoning daemons, anon. As a part of their legion training, the Thousand Sons were tasked with summoning "Warp Spirits" which all turned out to be daemons in disguise.
>>44359773
Yes, and I have noted one major fucking plot hole that no one on /tg/ has ever been able to answer.
If Sixth Legion geneseed and its Canis Helix only works with the descendants of the original genetically modified Fenrisian settlers, then how the rusted fuck did the original Terran intake of the Legion happen?
I am hoping the forgemaster of fluff Alan Bligh manages to settle this in the Horus Heresy sourcebook.
>>44359825
>because they thought they were special and not Psykers.
Except there was a substantive difference between Magnus and the Wolves. Magnus bargained with daemons (even Tzeentch himself) and the Wolves didn't. Primitive Fenrisian culture may have obscured the real truth but the Wolves really were different in comparison.
>>44359825
Their power was primal, elemental, and pure. It was not tainted by Chaos. It even was the bane of daemonkind.
>>44359844
Because Russ was a liar and hypocrite and infamous for rampaging around without thinking? He didn't fall to Chaos, no, but he slaughtered his brother like a loon on Chaos' orders.
And I want you to understand that I think Magnus was wrong and a fuck up. Doesn't mean Russ isn't either. Get that through your skull.
>>44359852
Nobody is defending Magnus. The hatred for Russ over Nikea is getting ALL psykers banned. You can't use Magnus as a shield against the criticism of Russ when we're talking about what he did to people other than Magnus.
This is not the old lore. You can't sit here and defend Russ because Nikea banned sorcery only. This is the new lore. Russ got all of it banned, then preceded to ignore that ban.
>>44359862
It's warp shit the tribals think is something else. There's not some new element of the universe only the Space Wolves know of.
>>44359752
>Russ said Space Marines should not use Psykers and he condemned others for using them but then he turned around and used Psykers himself
he condemend the thousand sons use of sorcery, which is different from just regular pysker stuff like reading emotions or casting runes which is what the rune priests do. stay mad magnus
>>44359884
That's old lore. New HH lore is that Nikea and Russ got all psyker powers banned.
>>44343324
...
agreed
>>44359896
>That's old lore. New HH lore is that Nikea and Russ got all psyker powers banned.
russ didn't even talk at nikea tho, he just sat in the background and chilled. it was the emperor who saw that magnus had taken teh use of psyker powers too far and banned them, which in hindsight was a bad idea but still.
>>44359910
Gonna ignore that he and Mortarian are the entire driving force behind starting the council?
I'm really tired of spaceyiffs using Magnus to shield Russ from criticism, even from people who don't like or even aren't talking about Magnus.
>>44359878
I'm not defending Russ. I'm just saying that his claim that the Wolves were different from Magnus and his legion in terms of psykers was 100% true. He thought that was a good enough justification to continue using his psykers. Was that somewhat hypocritical? Sure, but certainly very different from what Magnus did.
Russ tried to crack a half-hearted smile. ‘Consider us, One-Handed. We have always fought the wars of others. We have chased down every renegade and xenos and ripped their throats out. We have broken ourselves on the altar stone of my father’s will, and we were glad to do it, for it cemented our place by his side. We started to believe the stories we spun out of nothing to bring terror to our enemies. We were the attack dogs, the sentries, the watchers of the unwatchable.’
Bjorn didn’t like the sceptical tone in Russ’s voice. These were things that were true, things that defined the Legion.
‘Always working alone,’ Russ said, shaking his head as if in bemusement. ‘Dragging my brothers to task, letting it be known that we would do anything – anything – to keep the Great Crusade intact. Hel, I even went after Angron. My wrecked brother. What did I think – that I’d succeed with him? What kind of arrogance was that?’
‘We were necessary,’ said Bjorn evenly.
‘Yes, yes we were, but for whom? What other Legion would have cracked itself apart on Prospero when it could have been carving out new worlds for the dross of humanity to rut and mewl on? Enough of it!’
The old anger rushed back. A low growl shuddered through the air, picked up by the supine true-wolves, who snarled in sympathy.
‘Jarl, I do not know what you are telling me,’ said Bjorn.
‘Just this,’ said Russ, impatiently. ‘It cannot go on. My brother has ripped the Imperium apart with lies, and if we do not change ourselves then we will deserve no better than the sorcerers we destroyed. I will no longer be the axeman of the Emperor. I will no longer see my sons crippled, shorn of allies, clinging to old myths of primacy."
>>44359928
The problem is that Russ thinks he's different from all psykers. That's not true. Nikea isn't just about Magnus in its implication.
>>44359561
I see you have resorted to the space wolf fanboy tradition of just making shit up. Nowhere in the official fluff has it ever been stated that rune priests drew their power from Fenris itself. The Space Wolves believed that was true because they don't know what the fuck they are talking about. The official fluff has always stated that rune priests draw their power from the warp like all other psykers.
>>44359588
That anon is just making things up.
>>44359746
Other Legions recruited from sparsely inhabited death worlds. Nothing you just said is evidence that Fenris is some special non-warp power-source for rune priests. You are grasping at straws.
>>44359878
>Because Russ was a liar and hypocrite and infamous for rampaging around without thinking?
The context of that quote was about Warp usage, not general behaviour.
>>44359935
it's not the power tho, it's how you use it.
>>44359963
Doesn't make him not a hypocrite for calling other people those things.
>>44359968
The council was about the power, not how its used. I too liked the older lore where it was just banning misuse. But that's no longer the case, and you can't keep leaning on how it used to be.
>>44359935
>Nikea isn't just about Magnus in its implication.
It basically is in the new fluff. It's even called The Trial of Magnus. The whole thing was basically "magnus is doing shit he shouldn't be" rather than "look we need to sort this psyker thing out". The result was a flat out ban rather than a regulatory act about librarians, astropaths.....
>>44360023
no it's not lol, that's just how magnus and the thousand sons view it.
>>44360023
It really isn't. It got Librarians and all Psyker powers banned. No matter their goal, it became less about Magnus' misdeeds and more of a wider condemnation. Before, the main person effected was Magnus. Nobody else did sorcery. Now, it effects all psykers, which were a major part of the majority of legions.
>>44358889
That's like saying that if a violent, gay bashing homophobe really truly believes that it's not gay when he has sex with men, then you can't blame him for his actions and he's not a total hypocritical piece of shit.
What was Rome? It's only "gay" if you're catching because you're submitting your power which is despicable.
Of course then a Power Bottom like Christ comes along and the Empire falls apart.
>>44360042
>It got Librarians and all Psyker powers banned.
That would also ban Astropaths and Navigators which clearly didn't happen. It was still clearly targeted against Magnus, the only change being that it banned the other librarians too.
>>44360074
Nikea was targeting the Legions. Neither of those two groups were part of the Legions themselves. Understand? Fish people and regular humans are not Space Marines.
>>44360089
>Nikea was targeting the Legions.
But then you cannot possibly spin it as a wider condemnation of psykers and not a clearly targeted act against Magnus who was the most fervent supporter of psykers.
In fact it then makes even less sense. If you're not willing to entrust superhumans with these powers, why on earth would you entrust regular humans?
>>44360125
>Law goes after Librarians
>IT ONLY HURT MAGNUS GUYS
Are you stupid spaceyiff?
>>44359768
Wow, not even a thousand sons fan but Russ is such a hypocritical asshole.
>>44359844
Russ condemned the use of all psyker powers, not just demon summoning and sorcery, and then he used psykers himself. If you can't see that this is the pot calling the kettle black levels of hypocrisy then you are beyond help.
>>44359878
>>44359921
I have also noticed that wolf fans love to dismiss anyone who criticizes Russ or his wolves as Magnus fans. It's just sad because I don't even like Magnus or the thousand sons. I'm a Crimson Fist fan. Like this idiot for example >>44359884 Hey moron, Russ wanted to ban all psyker powers from the space marines. Except his own psykers, which he said didn't count as psykers. Tell me again how that isn't hypocritical...
>>44359862
You're making shit up again. The space wolves may have believed that was true but the official fluff has always said that they are mistaken and that their power comes from the warp. You are taking someone's in-universe opinion, an opinion that the creators have repeatedly said is false, and you're trying to pass that off as the official version of what happened. You are pathetic.
>>44343132
okay, let's get going then
>Fulgrim:
>Decided he can perfect Emperor's work and let Fabius work on enhancement of genetic technology he barely understood
>Angorn:
>Straight out mutilated his marines by driving butcher's nails into their foreheads
I could go on.
they're all full of shit. I'm glad primarchs are gone, they're fucking garbage. I only hope Lion will wake up and gets definitely rekt as well.
>>44360385
Belief in 40K makes everything true doe.
>>44360474
That only work for Orks
>>44360563
What about Battle Sisters?
>>44343573
That's just down to the Dark Angel portions of the BL HH stuff being some of the worst written and all over the place plot wise fiction they've put out.
Although I am constantly amused when he repeatedly punches the heads of his own Chaplain off.
>>44359805
If this is true it just makes the Wolves even more gay for being big fat Mary Sues
>>44360801
The emperor is helping them out.
>>44361878
16 year old edgefag detected. I bet you play World Eaters.
>>44359753
Jaghatai didn't help Russ because he didn't have a clue why they were attacking each other, not because of some bullshit about Jaghatai hating Russ
>>44362306
>Bullshit
Aint bullshit actually. Don't know if it's what stopped him, but Khan really did hate Russ for killing his best friend. That he and Magnus were bros is canon.
>>44362103
GW can write them whatever outs they want, everybody knows what Russ is.
He bitches about Sanguinius being a mutant, his marines are half dog.
He bitches about Angron being barbaric, his marines are rape slavers.
He bitches about Magnus being sorcerous, he's got fetish covered shamans casting bones for him.
He's just full of shit, and nothing GW can write to excuse him after the fact is going to undo that.
>>44359878
>but he slaughtered his brother like a loon on Chaos' orders
When Horus feels you to jump you ask how high
>>44362348
>his marines are rape slavers.
How?
>>44362368
You're just making your husbando look like a cocksucker.
>>44359921
>Gonna ignore that he and Mortarian are the entire driving force behind starting the council?
Are you gonna ignore that there was a really good reason for trying to get psychic powers banned
I'm really tired of people trying to grow there hate-boner for Russ using Nikea to critizise Russ
>>44362379
For the Emperor.
The issue of Russ that his loyalty was absolute an no amount of whining is going to somehow convince anyone that Russ shouldn't have obeyed Horus who speaks with the Emperor's authority.
>>44362457
>Whining
It's funny, I hear a lot more whining about how Russ did nothing wrong for spacefurry fans. It's like you're really insecure and can't admit your Primarch had flaws and made mistakes like everyone else does.
>>44362405
There wasn't justification to ban anything but sorcery.
>>44362482
I am not even a Russfanboy. I dislike most of the HH as boring crap. I am a Necron dude and I recognize that Russ issue with psykers is indefensible BUT following Horus's orders is not something you can attack him on.
Next time don't strawman, you prick.
>>44362532
You can when he got orders direct from the Emperor to do the opposite. A sudden change in plans out of nowhere would make anyone else suspicious, only Russ was dumb enough not to question at all. Or too blinded by his own warped desire to kill his brother. Maybe both.
While Russ doesn't mind having killed Magnus, even he goes on to say that being blind attack dogs would undo them eventually.
>>44362482
I'm not arguing that Leman never did anything wrong but the idea that he shouldn't have attacked Prospero is ridiculous
>>44362598
>You can when he got orders direct from the Emperor to do the opposite
This never happened, E told Horus to get Russ bring Magnus in and Horus told Russ to burn Prospero to the ground
>>44362621
>the idea that he shouldn't have attacked Prospero is ridiculous
Doing that drove Magnus into the arms of Chaos. The guy was submitting to the Emperor's judgement before his sons started to die. The Emperor himself did not want Prospero burnt, he wanted Magnus dragged in and sat on the chair.
>>44362644
>This never happened
>Process to tell me how it happened
Is all the wolfdick on the brain interfering with your ability to read?
>>44359702
>>44359731
It's also a humorous foreshadowing that Fulgrim will mod his soldier's to shit during their fall to chaos.
>>44362405
If there were such good reasons to ban all psychic powers then why didn't Russ order his own rune priests to stop using their psychic powers? I bet you are tired of people bringing up Nikea because it's a shining example of Russ's rampant hypocrisy and you just can't stand fluff that doesn't portray the wolves in the best light possible. Oh wait, I bet now you're going to make up some more shit about rune priests not be psykers or not using the warp.
>>44362482
I completely agree. One of the reason Space Wolves are so hated on /tg/ is because so many Space Wolf fanboys absolutely refuse to admit the Russ had flaws or ever did anything wrong. And no, shifting the blame to the Emperor by saying "Russ's flaw was being to loyal and following the Emperors orders with question" doesn't count. I'm a Crimson Fist fan and I'll be the first to admit that Dorn had flaws. Dorn was to stubborn and could a be jerk towards his brothers. Why can't you do that Space Wolf fans? Why can't you just admit that Russ fucked up once in a while?
>>44362621
Just a minute ago you were arguing that people shouldn't use Nikea to criticize Russ. Nikea is perfect example of Russ being a hypocrite.
>>44343497
>Russ
>not Mortarion
Butthurt 5ed player detected.
At least read the books before bringing up your shit.
>>44363245
>Not both
Though pre-heresy Russ holds more blame for violating what he supported. Mortarion is just an all around idiot though.
>>44362621
Magnus was the only person in the entire universe who could have gotten the Emperor off the Golden Throne
He had surrendered and was ready to be taken back to Terra, but Russ had been given a green light to go shithouse and he didn't waste the opportunity
>>44362374
Fenris. Russ has more rapists in his army than Kurze, their entire culture is about getting into their boats before the islands sink, going to the survivors and killing EVERYBODY who isn't fit to rape, raping the SHIT out of them to breed a huge population that their shitty world can't sustain, and then repeating the cycle when the islands start sinking again.
Fenris is a planet of scum.
>>44343410
It isn't based though, just a stupid comeback.
>I've heard you do strange things to your ships
>Well you are gay
>>44362405
Okay, so what about all of Russ's psykers?
Are they just SO SUPER SPECIAL?
That's the real reason they hate the wolves. Instead of giving them personalities, they give them excuses and loopholes so they can keep being pieces of shit.
>>44363262
Mortarion didn't psykers, though. He practiced what he preached.
>>44363626
That's why I said he was just an idiot.
>>44363600
THEY ARE SHAMANS NOT PSYKERS
IT'S SHAMANISM! NOT SORCERY!
IT'S DIFFERENT!
>>44363672
sorcery does not equal psychic abilities doe.
not all sorcery is bad.
>>44363626
>http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/daemonology-mp3.html
Give this audiobook a listen.
>>44363672
Wow, that librarian psyker model converted into a wolfy rune priest ( not a Psyker) shaman extremely easily.
Almost as if they were the same fucking thing, but one is covered in scrolls and one is covered in runes and fur that smells Iike wolf shit.
>>44363672
Fenrisian Spirits Mo fucker FENRISIAN SPIRITS!!!!
>>44363714
The books do not make any distinction between ANY kind of psyker use. Sorcery, shamanism, Librarius, it didn't matter what you called it.
Only Russ was given a pass. Like he's given a pass on his mutation and his barbarism.
He's just SO SPECIAL and it makes people want to puke
>>44363782
That's not a psychic hood, that's a shaman hood
And that's not a force weapon, that's a spirit weapon
>>44363577
>Fenris is a planet of scum.
it's ad death world, what do you expect? the entire planet is out to kill them so they survive by killing. you can't expect them to act fucking civilized and shit.
>>44364505
Anon was defending a statement there.
>>44364505
I didn't say I was surprised they were pieces of shit, it makes perfect sense.
I'm just saying that pieces of shit smell bad.
>>44360438
Pls anon enlighten us
>>44364505
They aren't throwing rape parties on Caliban, they aren't throwing rape parties on Catachan
Fenris just has this fucked up culture where they breed as hard as they can so when the big game of earthquake musical chairs starts they have a bigger chance of taking over a good spot
Yes, it's a sensible strategy, but it means that the society is literally BUILT ON MASS RAPE
>>44365058
And these people are supposed to be part dog. You really can't get further from natural wolf social dynamics than this.
>>44343132
TOO SOON!
>>44362405
>>44362621
>>44362644
>be a mouth breathing retard who can't argue for shit
>still put on a trip so people know exactly which posts are yours
>>44363782
The fuck are you on about? I only see a Rune Priest in the picture that looks fuck-all like a librarian. Seriously, the weapon and equipment look nothing alike.
>>44362347
The Scars also dislike the Wolves because they consider themselves civilized, just a different civilization They dislike being tarred with the "murderous barbarian from a feral world" brush.
>>44366203
that is a fucking force weapon http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Force_weapon
and a psychic hood http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Psychic_Hood
the only way to tell it's a Space Wolf is because it's carrying around a goddamn wolf carcass
>silly Mongoloid fucker
>based
Nice try, Oriental swine
>>44366918
Are you heretical or something? That runic weapon looks fucking nothing like a Force Weapon and that's not even close to a fucking psychic hood.
Of course none of you acknowledge based Perturabo as the greatest Primarch.
>>44367422
If Perturabo is so great, then let's take a look inside of his mind for a second.
> DORN IS BETTER THAN ME.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO.
>>44367422
What has he ever done of lasting benefit to anyone?
>>44367478
He fed Dorn a shit sandwich
Gulliman should send him a thank you card
>>44367531
>Pert baits Dorn into an obvious trap
>IF start dying by the thousands
>Guilliman forced to step in and save Dorn's ass (again)
>Dorn is ungrateful as ever this time trying to claim getting slaughtered was part of his genius plan.
"You fucking idiot Rowboat! i had Pert right where i wanted him! those Iron Warriors were almost out of ammo! This is all your fault!"
>Pert leaves
>Dorn leaves
>Guilliman regrets ever abandoning Imperium Secundus
but yeah, thanks Perty.
>>44363782
>"converted" to SW
Nigger it's just a wolf pelt and a wolf tail talisman. You can't just drape dead wolf skins on things and call it a SW conversion.
>>44367954
Tell that to the Space Wolves and their wolf armor and wolf blasters and wolf ships.
>>44367964
Gotta at least put some runes and viking braid beards on them or something, man.
Then maybe turn all the eagles into wolf heads. Maybe some wolf head backpack vents. Maybe helmets in the shape of a wolf's head.
Then just go ahead and put the whole model on a giant wolf.
>>44367531
Gave the Emperor the smartest and most ruthless of Legions- smarter than the XIII and bloodier than the VI. Too great a tool to be squandered as the false Emperor's fort-builders.
All of them will suffer.
>>44368007
While getting fucked in the ass by another giant wolf. Furfags.
Curze is most based Primarch
>>44359805
Okay great. It's warp based, taint or not Nikea forbids it
>>44348171
he fucks them
>>44371076
The Khan is a power top- if he wants to stick his dick in it it is getting stuck in. Doesn't matter what it is- if the beast is hungry it's gonna eat.
>>44367449
>DORN IS BETTER THAN PERTURABO
But he's not, Dorn is the worst Primarch. He's categorically failed at everything he's supposed to be good at, was an asshole, died like a bitch and his own Legionnaires didn't even want to be in his Chapter.
>>44363672
Can't tell if you're joking or just another space wolf fanboy but I'll bite. The creators of 40k have said again and again that rune priests are psykers and use the warp just like other psykers. Using caps lock doesn't let your opinion overrule the official fluff.
>>44367422
How can the greatest Primarch have such a tiny head?
>>44373611
I'll agree that some of that is true, but how did he fail at everything he's supposed to be good at? Dorn build the Imperial Palace, and then he and the Fists manned the walls and defended it, keeping Horus and his army out until reinforcements arrived, which was exactly what Dorn was supposed to do. Even Perturabo couldn't crack open the fortifications that Dorn built. Also, where in the fluff was it ever mentioned that Dorn's legionnaires didn't want to be in the Imperial Fists?
>>44374164
>Can't tell if you're joking or just another space wolf fanboy but I'll bite. The creators of 40k have said again and again that rune priests are psykers and use the warp just like other psykers. Using caps lock doesn't let your opinion overrule the official fluff.
Proofs?
>>44360054
>Of course then a Power Bottom like Caesar comes along and the Republic self-disbands.
