2011: Miniatures production switches from pewter to urethane-based resin allowing for greater detail.
2021: Proliferation of home 3d printers and 3d scanners allows for widespread miniature piracy.
2027: ????
What's the future of Warhammer miniatures?
Hopefully they drastically drop in price. Games Workshop is embarrassing expensive compared to the rest of the wargaming world
2017: GeeDubs goes under, no future Warhammer miniatures any more.
You don't need 3D printer competition when the company shits on its customers more every year.
>>44342032
>Mercedes is embarrassingly expensive compared to the rest of the car world
>>44342011
Probably not 3D printers, that's for sure.
>>44342032
I feel like people won't be happy until they can get 10 Tacticals for 10 bucks, with bitz.
>>44342048
Huh.
>>44342048
GW is as much a luxury company as any other game company. Their quality does not justify their cost.
>>44342048
It really isn't, though. A brand-new mercedes is forty grand, which is less than twice the price of a brand-new ford. If GeeDubs was merely twice the price of the competition, this would be a valid comparison, but its more than that. And the difference between a new Mercedes and a ner Ford is a LOT more than the difference between GW's plastic toys compared to the other plastic toys.
>>44342100
But if it's a luxury item, does the price need to be justified?
>>44342011
>2021: Proliferation of home 3d printers and 3d scanners allows for widespread miniature piracy.
I honestly don't believe this will ever happen, so I'll believe it when I see it.
>>44342011
>some other company buys the right to use of the IP and creates an augmented reality tabletop game with multiple DLC for user friendly digital customization for the holograms, special effects and rules expansion
>people whine about it not being a proper TT wargame
>Markups are bad
>>44342127
Nope. If you can't afford luxury items, you are shit out of luck.
I'd like to eat out at fancy restaurants every day of the week.
I can't do that because I'm not loaded like a movie star or soccer player, but do I complain to 3 star restaurants that they are too expensive?
>>44342142
>augmented reality tabletop game
>your inquisitor figure crashes
>call tech support
>they ask you to reboot your Warhammer
The future is bright
>>44342011
The resin thing was stopped because it was badly implemented with no quality control.
3D printing won't be widespread in home use for quite some time yet because the skill base required to get use out of it, especially for quality equal to current production miniatures, will still be far higher than using a regular printer. It requires a more direct investment in time and knowledge than going into a store and picking up a product. Convenience moves product really well.
With that in mind we're more likely to see GW stores having printers on-site for special miniatures or bits production long before they're widespread and easy-access enough to really eat into their business.
>>44342189
I gotta admit, print on-demand bitz would be hella cool.
>>44342048
They really aren't. Your analogy is inherently flawed even without the premise being incorrect.
>>44342189
>The resin thing was stopped because it was badly implemented with no quality control.
Wait..have they moved back to pewter?
>>44342175
>game breaks during the animation for the ascension to daemonhood of the chaos lord
>file is corrupt
>>44342253
if they did, that's good.
pewter is a nice metal
>>44342189
>Convenience moves product really well.
This.
People seem to forget that most people are not going to do themselves what they can have done for them, usually better, by skilled craftsmen.
The chicken little bullshit about 3d printers needs to stop.
>>44342253
Nah, they use plastic.
>>44342189
This one seems like a hobby that would self-select towards people with an interest in, variously: being good with computers, making machines work, designing fapfigurines, not leaving their basements.
Which would all help with 3D printing at home being more viable/attractive.
For distribution, you'd only have to post the render/file online.
As far as the files to print through your home printer, well - you wouldn't download a car, would you?
>>44342253
>>44342274
No, they just stopped making the old models and moved to make everything plastic kits instead.
>>44342110
This is incorrect as well, considering new fords that I've seen run from 35k-40k. I was just car shopping yesterday.
>>44342151
>only source is a blog
>>44342308
GW selling files for printing might be a thing. But it's only going to be a minor addition to their line up, since their main target customer doesn't meet those requirements a lot of the time and won't be arsed with doing it themselves.
>>44342134
Explain. The technology exists, civilians have actually used it, and with the parts and labor required to assemble them, they shouldn't be any more expensive than any of the other household appliances that we consider a normal part of life now.
>>44342356
see
>>44342285
Also, this works for adults with an excess of seed money to fund it, and time to perfect it's use. It does not apply to children, and direct piracy like this is a lot easier to shut down when it's not in China.
>>44342356
Consider resin casting.
It's fairly simple and requires minimal practice to get working, you can buy everything needed to replicate miniatures for under $100.
Now, how many people actually do it? This is a tried and tested method of producing miniatures, with sites and communities already in place to help people make and duplicate their own tin/plastic soldiers. Hell there's even a couple of /tg/ guides to casting around. But really, how many people do it?
Compare that to a technology that currently cannot replicate miniatures to the same degree at an affordable price.
If you 3D printed minis, would you just print an assembled mini, or parts on a sprue?
>>44342381
Which is why Warhammer nerds spend hundreds on professional model painters to paint their armies. Of course. It all makes sense now.
Your amazingly cool cynical world view is missing the simple fact that plenty of people LIKE making their own stuff, and the wargaming community is one particularly know for making their own crazy shit.
>>44342407
Consider that 3D printer technology is new, will get better, and will always be more convenient than directly making things from a resin set.
Besides, this isn't about piracy, this is about anon trying to say that 3D printers will never become commonplace. Which is fucking absurd.
reminder that FDM printers won't have the fidelity to print convincing looking minifigs for a long time (and even if they do, it'll be really slow), SLS is where it's at but inexpensive SLS printing is really fucking difficult.
carbon3d might work, depending on the cure time of each layer, one big unknown is how it will manage to feed resin to the curing area fast enough. basically, how fast can it print a big block?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpH1zhUQY0c
>>44342065
Ten dollars?
That's a fucking rip off.
Fucking GW fucking price hikes.
>>44342442
I guess it depends on what your personal definition or scale of 'widespread' is. But I do not see 3d printing being a big enough success for home consumers to really put a dent in GW's market by 2021.
Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it but until then it's just the same cries of "No really this thing will change the tabletop gaming world as we know it!" that happens whenever something remotely interesting comes out.
>>44342032
Per miniature, GW is actually well on the cheap side.
Problem is, most other games only need a handful of minis where as GW even the 'few but powerful' forces are often thirty or more strong.
>>44342516
This varies from faction to faction. Look at AOS for extreme exmples of "per dude" costs
>>44342048
What? I can't hear you over the sound of you sucking GW's cock.
>>44342501
SLA printers that can produce high detailed resin objects can already cost as little as $400. Wide adoption is not too far away at the current rate.
>>44342516
SM Terminator box is $50 US for 5 minis, when they were metal they were sold at $10-12 per model/blister. Despite going to a cheaper material the minis stayed the same cost (and will likely only ever go up in the future). I can get Bandai Gundam kits in the $13-17 range, models that are probably more equivalent to a SM Rhino etc. For that price point you can also get plenty of small scale armor/plane model kits. Either GW is making really good margins on their kits, or their absolute shit in controlling production costs. Either way, no their not cheap, the models are way overpriced compared to whatever else you can get.
>implying I'm not already pirating my 'hams.
DESU though, I'd actually have to run the numbers to see if it's any cheaper. One might have to build a truly colossal army to realize any major savings. Granted, I copy every little bit, so each dudeman can be unique, it would certainly be much cheaper to copy millions of snap-fit guys.
lower the quality
raise prices
use cheaper materials
raise prices
make 40k more like fantasy and fantasy more like 40k
raise prices
>>44342011
>2021: Proliferation of home 3d printers and 3d scanners allows for widespread miniature piracy.
I remember the same thing being said in 2011. It's 2016 soon and Anon is still using FDM machines. Sure the cost may have come down so more people have them, but the quality has remained the same.
I can't see anything changing in the next five years. SLS and SLA still have a long way to come down in that time.
>>44342032
GW is actually less than most 28mm heroic scale sci-fi and fantasy competitors, mostly because they are still working with resin/metal and are smaller companies.
But this section of wargaming is expensive in general. You can't whine about GW costing $2-5 a guy compared to historicals or tiny 6mm guys who can be bought for pennies when Infinity, X-Wing, Warmahordes, etc, all sell their dudes for $7-10 a pop.
>>44344866
>comparing the cheapest Bandai kits to the most expensive GW infantry kits
Now try comparing Ork Boys and a Master Grade or Perfect Grade. Anytime someone brings up Bandai in general you know they're a retard, when Bandai has billions of animes and movies to support Gundam and their monthly profit alone is more than GW's entire net worth.
>>44344866
>the models are way overpriced compared to whatever else you can get.
Like what, Gundam kits? That aren't even in the same fucking market? If you buy miniatures from any other company they cost more than GW. Unless you want dog shit quality like Mantic or a completely different market like Perry (whom even Vic Lamb costs tons more than GW).
>>44347827
>Infinity, X-Wing, Warmahordes, etc, all sell their dudes for $7-10 a pop.
>Pewter
>Comes with cards, chits, etc
>Fucking huge models
>etc
Plastic rank models with no extras like GW's have inflated prices by comparison
>>44347870
>Vic Lamb costs tons more than GW
her minis are resin, not plastic though.
But yeah, I mean obviously GW does take the whole 'premium prices for premium products' to a whole new level.
While historicals do have a different market it totally fair to compare the two. Especially Warlord/Bolt Action where you roughly need around the same amount of model as a GW game. And they too are consistently cheaper.
What it always comes down to is if you are willing to pay for it...
>>44347870
>dog shit quality like Mantic
>2010+5
I'm torn between
>The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one
and
>Look ma I posted it again
So have both.
>>44342011
>2027: ????
Robotics capable of painting and assembling the miniatures with good quality.
>>44348018
>While historicals do have a different market it totally fair to compare the two.
Listen to yourself.
>>44348073
>implying Mantic's newest, high quality offerings are as inexpensive as their old stuff
Even Mantic hikes prices. I was going to buy some of their terrain but the prices are ridiculous. GW's terrain prices are even worse.
>>44348138
They are still plastic miniatures intended for gaming.
Only difference is the setting of the game.
It's like saying you can only compare cars that have the same color...
The product itself is 'plastic miniatures', which is perfectly fine to compare to each other.
>>44348172
And a car is a vehicle you intend for driving. You still can't just randomly compare two cars meant for different markets, countries, purposes, etc. Just because a car is more expensive and has less fuel economy than a shitty econobox doesn't make it worse.
>>44348389
I don't see how there wouldn't be some overlap in between the two. Much like how Halo 3 and Call of Duty: World at War shared a lot of the same audience, 28mm miniatures intended for wargames wouldn't be too different from one another.
>>44348459
Comparing Halo 3 and CoD is pretty stupid.
>>44348459
And why don't people ever compare GW stuff to the tons of very similar, same market miniatures like CB, PP, etc who cost MORE?
The amount of intellectual dishonesty in you whiny faggots is astronomically bullshit.
>>44348389
Yes. And the context I gave in this case was the amount of miniatures needed to play a game.
Look, I get what you are saying, but unless you have more than a vague opinion on why one shouldn't compare miniatures from two manufacturers to each other in terms of pricing in relation to how many you need, based on which setting they are gonna be used I'm gonna stick to that.
I honestly can't think of any reason 'the market' for historicals should dictate different prices for individual gaming pieces.
Feel free to explain your point in relation to the pricing here, I just don't see the connection.
>>44348477
Comparing Warhammer 40K to an SUV is stupid. It is not as if Warhammer 40K is especially different from other mass produced miniatures of the same scale.
>>44348492
Because CB and PP minis are individually cast whereas Citadel miniatures are mass produced in factories. Also you need less of their minis to actually play their respective games.
>>44348492
>same market miniatures like CB, PP, etc who cost MORE?
Those are skirmishers.
And to be fair GW's new skirmisher AoS seems to be intended to be even more expensive...
>>44348515
>Also you need less of their minis to actually play their respective games.
>i don't need to buy as many so it's okay to be ripped off even harder
There's always one of these morons. You realize you can play the game system with cheaper models and spend EVEN LESS right?
>>44348518
>AoS
>skirmish
With that dumb "you can take as many guys as you want" rule and everyone having tons of leftover non-skirmish WHFB armies, people always take tons of shit in AoS.
>>44348515
>Comparing Warhammer 40K to an SUV is stupid
Wow you're dumb. Nobody is comparing 40k to an SUV. Cars were used as an analogy for miniatures.
>>44348581
True. GW markets it as skirmisher though.
>>44348609
It wasn't a direct analogy, but as you said cars were used as an analogy for miniatures.
>>44348645
Yes, cars were used as an analogy for miniatures, but miniatures were not compared to cars. Unless the guy meant "comparing miniatures to cars is stupid", which doesn't make sense because as long as you're comparing X to X and Y to Y, using Y as an analogy for X is always valid.
YOU WOULDN'T PIRATE A CAR
>>44342011
3d printers will definitely be the largest change. However, 2021 is a good prediction because so far, 3d printers aren't reliable enough, affordable enough, or precise enough. I long for the day when they are though. And when that time comes, before you know it we will keep advancing in 3d printing technology through the coming years. it will feel like the original ipod compared to the iphone 6s. Gee golly I so want 3d printer wargame piracy
>>44343116
>highly detailed
>$400
for anything that isn't dollar store army man quality you're looking at 6 digits, bud. Zcorps would barely make a passable 28mm figure, if it was totally lacking detail, and those are 70 grand.
>>44342151
>labor has no value
>I can do just as good of a job as a professional
>different types of the same thing are equal
>it's true cause the picture says so
>>44347849
>Now try comparing
I was comparing by price point dumb ass. Like, how many MG grade kits can you buy for a single Tau Storm Surge, both close enough in size. Sure bandai has an edge when it comes to production costs, but it's laughable to think that even factors into the costs of GW kits.
> Anytime someone brings up Bandai in general you know they're a retard
Bandi > makes plastic model kits
GW > makes plastic model kits
Whats the difference, one of them knows how to cash in on their IP and grow their market, and actually does invest in better production tech. It's not just gundams/anime, they've got the Star Wars license and are producing kits for Disney now. They have serious production chops, GW on the other hand only has it's IP to rest on. (not to mention other companies like Revell, Monogram, Tamiya, etc.)
>>44347870
>Like what, Gundam kits?
How about anything that comes on a plastic sprue, irregardless of their "market", production costs are not going to be wildly different.
>>44348581
Really though that's true of every wargame in existence. There's nothing stopping people having say a 5000 point infinity game if they want too.
>>44342011
3d printing a miniature would be theft, we need laws that can regulate what is and what isnt allowed to be printed. Just like we got the DMCA we sill need new rights to guarantee the safe operation of 3d printers or else pirates will turn these everyday devices into criminal objects like people who download music and destroyed the music careers of many celebrities and the fame of many movies like Interstellar made by the living legend Christopher Nolan who experts say should have been the highest grossing movie ever made because its made by Nolan himself from start to finish, instead piracy got in the way and destroyed those chances.
>>44348172
>Only difference is the setting of the game
That's actually an important difference though. GW and other fictional setting companies have a whole bunch of extra costs for writers and artists and such to cover that historical mini companies don't have to worry about.
>>44352968
>GW and other fictional setting companies have a whole bunch of extra costs
It ain't the setting that's expensive.
>>44348172
That's not the only difference at all. The market is essentially the same, though GW aims younger than most companies. But the main context that you're missing is distribution model and scale of production.
GW is practically unique in the industry in that it runs its own stores, globally. It produces its own products rather than renting time on another firm's machines. It's running a business of hundreds if not thousands of employees, beholden to shareholders.
Almost every other miniatures/scale models company has maybe a store which is just a factory outlet at most (and they're really rare), a table at shows (with the owners running the stall in person), a web store for their main business, and for scale models they distribute pretty much entirely through 3rd party retailers, sidestepping a massive amount of costs that GW can't because of how it operates.
They don't have tons of people managing everything from packaging to printing books. Many are a only handful of people, using companies specialist companies like Renedra to produce the models they design.
GW's plastic miniatures are the primary income source supporting that business. Their cost is intrinsically intertwined with that. Which whilst on the surface they're similar due to the nature of the product, in practice GW is (comparatively) a giant, with a giant's appetite to everyone else looking like Golum, or maybe a fat hobbit at best.
They're still overly expensive, but they also need to be to maintain the company in its current form.
>>44352791
>How about anything that comes on a plastic sprue, irregardless of their "market", production costs are not going to be wildly different.
Wow you're really retarded.
1. You can get a POWER DRILL on a sprue.
2. "Irregardless"? Really? Kill yourself.
3. Production costs are ABSOLUTELY going to be different if you're a huge company making billions of sprues vs. a tiny company making a tiny sprue. Why do you think plastic sprues are so uncommon in wargaming to begin with?
>>44344866
>Apples per kilo is $4.
>Oranges $3.
Are we quite finished?
>>44342417
Depends on the mini. A full mini in the wrong pose would have lots more flash and support struts you'd need to remove. Often quicker and easier to print in pieces and assemble
>>44344866
What about the cost of the mould making though Beansy?
A 9 Inch Vulcanised Rubber Spin Casting Production Mould is £12. Fuck knows how much a Tool Steel Injection Mould costs. Probably still tens of thousands.
Plus they don't sell the large volume you'd expect from Injection Moulding ventures, because not everyone wants to make armies of plastic cosmic warriors. Better to accept this and sell less at a higher rate rather than bang sprues out like plastic bags and saturate your market.
wtf was the finecast stuff? I read that it was supposed to be best quality ever then I bought a few finecasts and they were literally the worst GW miniatures I had to paint.
>>44358131
GW once decided to phase out metal minis with this resin. That's why the resin ones you get are former metal ones (and a few brand-new-resin-only). Except GW was not really good at this shit and their stuff is plagued with flash and bubbles.
>>44342134
My brother's getting one for Christmas. It's large enough to print most models except for the tallest ones like Knights, and the resolution I'd high enough that you can get smoothness and detail identical to the real deal by being a bit more careful with the primer.
They're only about $400, you know. The filament's about $6 a pop for a marine-sized print.
>>44358238
>and the resolution I'd high enough that you can get smoothness and detail identical to the real deal by being a bit more careful with the primer
No you can't. You can't get as fine detail as cast minis from that kind of printer yet and you jave to choose between smooth or detailed, you can't have both. Any method you use too smootging it out is also going to destroy or cover what detail you do manage to get.
The best detail comes from Laser sintering machines. But they're still crazy expensive.
>>44342011
The west and by extension miniature wargaming won't exist then.
