What do you think of FFG's narrative dice?
>>44328727
I get what they were going for, but I don't like them.
Wish I could buy them in bulk
They're not bad. They're not my favorite because I don't like having to buy special die and the conversion chart takes about 5 times as long per roll. They're better than a lot of other systems though. Distinctly above average, but I like others better.
>>44328727
I want to eat the d8's
probably my favorite system. Only downside is the cost
>>44328727
they're alright. a little pricey.
I recommend getting a beginner game, comes with a set.
I don't get the praise, I agree with this review:
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/37670/roleplaying-games/review-star-wars-force-and-destiny
Pretty good idea, but I think mechanically it isn't executed very well. Maybe it gets better with familiarity or a good GM. I'll have to give it another go sometime.
>>44328841
I was really excited to run Force and Destiny once the next semester starts, but this review makes me think there's no way in hell my group will ever be able to handle the dice mechanics.
Complete shit made by FFG to squeeze more money from their fanboys
FATE and apocalypse world both do narrative gaming better, if you're the kind of cancerous faggot who's into that shit.
>>44328727
They are quite nice. They take a bit to get used to but they certainly work out great.
Still: they are expensive and the change for a ''critical failure'' is to high. It works in small encounters but in larger fights you suddenly need to come up with 5 different/interesting Despair-results.
>>44329119
I mostly agree with this. I'm not a huge fan of the dice, the system is too crunchy to be a narrative-first type game. It's better than WHFRP 3rd, but not by much.
I honestly don't see what you get out of this system that couldn't be gotten out of a d10 system like nWoD.
And the initiative system blows considerable ass.
>>44329263
>d10 system like nWoD
Not much. I think FFG plans to attract some people with it's crunchier system and, slightly, more advanced combat mechanics.
>>44329263
Or, if you were going to do a system like this, it's completely nonsensical for the GM to be rolling any dice. The different dice pools for various enemies and determining the outcome wastes a fuck load of time around the table, while we hang on to our dicks waiting to see if we took 6 damage or 7, and if the enemy gives us a black die.
The game already has difficulty dice, so why not make those the enemy dice and allow players to roll everything. Much more proactive.
Want hit a bad guy? Add difficulty dice equal to his dodge.
Want to avoid a hit from a bad guy? Add difficulty dice equal to his attack bonus.
This shit isn't hard, and Jay Little is a fucking idiot.
>>44329347
>crunchier system
Nah, nWoD (or i guess CoD, now) and oWoD have this undeserved reputation for being low crunch because of the focus on the "storyteller" idea. Bullshit. Those games (especially oWoD) are crunchier than D&D, wrapped in a veil of fluff so thick that people think that's all it is.
I mean check out the dice rolling for D&D:
Roll a d20. If hit roll damage.
For oWoD:
Roll to hit with a variable dice pool against a variable target number. Enemy rolls dodge. If the enemy doesn't cancel your success with their successes, roll damage adding the remainder of your dice from the attack roll plus your weapons damage rating. Then the enemy rolls soak to suck up the damage.
Which one is crunchier.
>>44328727
Though they want to grab as many $$$ as they can from players, the system is OK and the dice work quite well.
That said, if the price for a dice set were lower or they threw a couple of sets instead of just one in the introductory game it would have been a nice move.
The main issue I have is that you really need at least 2 sets to play, since it doesn't take long for your rolls to exceed the number of dice you have. I like the advantage/threat system though.
>>44329362
>The game already has difficulty dice, so why not make those the enemy dice and allow players to roll everything. Much more proactive.
The FF Star Wars RPGs do this
>>44329452
I agree. I dislike oWod (the setting is decent here and there though) but I really like nWoD due to it being very streamlined while still leaving room for a lot of customization. When comparing FFG and nWoD most, if not all, FFG games are crunchier.
>>44328727
I didn't really get it. I liked numbers instead of hieroglyphs.
>>44330488
It's weird when they're symbols you recognize as Star Wars symbols, but they're no longer associated with the things you associate them with. If that makes sense.
I really hope some company makes a generic version of the dice, with better symbols. Get on it, Chessex/Koplow/Q-Workshop.Then we can make a generic version of the system itself.
>>44328727
I would like it more if the symbols weren't fucking retarded. How hard is it to make a check for a success and an x for a failure or some shit?
>>44328727
>interesting idea, non-binary system is cool
>after a coupla sessions, doing the maths takes no more than 2s (even more so with an app.)
>sadly perfect for munchkin trying to optimize compared to systems like d20 or openD6.
>system is too rule-light and doesn't provide enough exemples of waht warrants a blue/black dice or a dice upgrade, same for gear that is a mess in some case, and advantages/disadvantes outside of combat (yeah, it's supposed to be an interactive system, but we're a group of grognards so every advantage/disavantage rolled result in 2min of bargain to find a fair result).
>$$$. Download the app via torrent.
In the end, it's nice but not revolutionary. Has advantages and drawbacks, and you can simulate the same via degrees of success with normal dice and opposed rolls. Good system overall, if a bit too light and vague.
I like it
>>44329603
No they don't, the enemies still have to roll to hit based I their initiative you turd.
>>44328727
They are fine you you like you narrative to be full of failures and mostly narrating about how that shot roll really wasn't so shit.
It's like *World systems but worse.
>>44328727
As a game concert? Okay really. Keep the story moving into into numbercrunching and +1s. There is a much more immediate sense of what's happening with the face comes up.
I don't like the use of Star Wars iconography personally. But if fastasy flight ever published a generic system based with a more broader 'story dice' happy over that
>$5 app on Android - add all the dice you want.
>Armada
>X-Wing
>ARR PEE GEE
>>44328743
This.
I think proprietary dice is stupid, forcing people to use shit they only you make. And the way they were implemented was poor as well.
I don't think I'll ever use something like this again.
>>44329263
>the system is too crunchy to be a narrative-first type game
Don't you think it's possible for people to enjoy the narrative-first approach in a crunch-heavy game? I like both those things, and I don't see that they're incompatible.
>>44330587
But the brand, anon, think of the brand! Playability is a secondary concern.
>>44332760
They specifically include instructions for playing the game with regular dice.
At the same time those seem so cumbersome and awkward (as >>44328800 said) that I wonder if the very inclusion of those instructions was a trick to get you to buy more.
>>44328727
They're opaque, therefore made inferior and less random than clear dice.
>>44332810
i agree with this.
>>44333165
>less random than clear dice
Can you expand on this? I've never heard of this before.
>>44333217
So, opaque dice require less quality in manufacturing and can be denied proper cooling or settling speed and timr, because air pockets/different densities are concealed.
Clear dice require MUCH more quality control.
Look for youtube videos of people opening up dice.
>>44333217
Not him, but apparently they cheap out on opaque dice because you can't see the insides:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI3N4Qg-JZM
>>44328727
They're too expensive, but the system utilizes them well enough to justify them.
>>44333315
>solution
but the salt isn't even fucking dissolved
>>44333502
I believe it needs to be hyper saturated for it to work.
>>44328821
thanks doc
>>44333165
They're not inferior if they roll high every time.
>>44333896
Unless you're playing a roll-under system.
>>44330587
Indeed.
I don't mind the idea of specialist dice for games at all. They really should have done something less retarded though. Even frowny faces and smiles would've made more sense
>>44328727
meh/10
>>44333315
Someone else did a video in response to this saying that he tested 15 sets of chessex dice and every one of the opaque dice had a bias while all of the clear dice were balanced.
>>44332760
>I think proprietary dice is stupid, forcing people to use shit they only you make.
I think this is a silly argument. If you want to play monopoly, you can't exactly buy a snakes and ladders board and substitute the property cards with a Magic the Gathering Deck.
>>44328727
They take some getting used to, but once the players and the gm can read em quick and have a general idea of what to do with them they're great. Feels like I have help gming
I've never played the FFG Star Wars games, but I have played other games with proprietary dice, and in general I think they're great. When done well you can get so much information in a single roll. I know that having to buy special dice is bothersome, and new things are always scary at first, but honestly I'd rather spend something more on dice than having to deal with some clunky systems that are still around (was it WoD that had roll to hit/defend/damage/soak?)
>>44333315
>>44339020
so something like pic related is ok?
>>44328727
Are they forged?
>>44339311
oWoD
>>44328727
I have no problem with the dice so much as I have a problem with the system itself. The general idea is good, especially for new Game Masters: obligation is a fantastic concept, character creation is fairly light, and the dice remind the GM to keep things interesting.
This last point is where it annoys me, however. Almost every time there's an advantage, or especially a disadvantage, the GM has to create a reason for it. Each roll is never just "you fail", but "you fail with these effects". This puts a heavier creative load on the GM, and especially new GMs will have difficulties keeping track of everything AND improvising new, non-trivial events with each roll.
For experienced gamemasters the problem is with the system trying to do too much sometimes, but a good GM will just ignore those rules anyway.
It's a nice concept but executed in a mediocre way. Still more fun than D&D though.
>>44328727
They're okay once you get past that "oh shit" feeling staring at the tables in the book, but honestly it could have been done with regular dice, and once you start having to throw around 10 or so dice and figure out what the fucking results are, combat slows the fuck down again.
There are upsides and downsides to them. I like that they allow for a roll to have good and bad results at the same time. For combat, the extra time assembling the dice pool and canceling symbols after rolling is somewhat offset by not having to roll separately for damage. As you get more practice, figuring out the dice pool and figuring out the result afterward get much faster.
Downsides are that it is a little bit slower, requires a GM who 1) can quickly decide the difficulty of tasks, 2) knows the options for spending advantage, threat, triumph, and despair, and 3) can quickly improvise appropriate and interesting results for rolls.
>>44329073
It's not nearly as complicated as it seems at first glance. A run through one of the beginner games is good for bringing everyone up to speed on the dice mechanics. It does put a bit more weight on the GM, though.
>>44328727
From a player/GM perspective, I'm not a fan. I very much prefer the d20 systems.
From a business perspective, it was brilliant because it really encourages you to buy their dice or use their app.
>>44329452
I think you've oversimplified D&D in comparison. It's more (and I'm trying to keep this from being any specific edition):
Roll a d20 against a variable target number. Add modifiers based on proficiency/BAB, magic items, and any other fixed bonuses. Then add or subtract as necessary for circumstantial bonuses and penalties (such as cover, combat advantage, flatfooted, etc.). Depending on the power and edition, the enemy may be required to make a roll, either in addition to or instead, in which case you need to determine who is doing what. If you succeed, you may need to confirm whether or not it is a Critical Hit. If it hits, determine damage and any other effects. If it crits, determine crit damage and additional effects. Check to see if any the amount of damage taken has triggered any other abilities or effects.
Yeah, D&D is pretty crunchy. And I probably forgot stuff in there too.
(Also, the holiday captcha is pretty cool)
>>44328727
The star wars dice in particular are terrible. I like the decent ones quite a lot.
Also:
>>44341760
>>44328727
These dice play like a very, very bad dice pool system.
>>44328727
Narrative dice? Are tabletop players becoming so casual they need dice to think up the game for them?
I get there are games like Arkham Horror that use cards to determine what's going on. However a good arbitrator can just run it for a group of players. This 'trend' toward plot / story etc. being determined randomly by tables, cards, or dice is disconcerting, desu senpai.
>>44342805
>Muh elitism
>muh one true way
>>44328727
A gimmicky gimmick for the sake of being gimmicky, and a good example of why you don't give Jay Little any role whatsoever in creating an RPG.
>>44343072
Casuals shitting up my hobby plz go
>>44328727
I hated the idea of it at first, BUT after playing it it for a bit I've changed my tune.
I actually -really- like the dice system - it may be the only part of the game I -do- like. It's fairly straightforward, and decently intuitive to run... at least until any other mechanics get involved.
I'm actually more interested in using the dice system on its own, as a very "rules lite" system, than using it in conjunction with the full SW RPG system.
Got a free dice app on my phone for our one-shot of the edge of the empire game.
I liked the dice, was pretty unique and worked well for what they were trying to accomplish
>>44341831
>basic addition and subtraction is hard!
You don't need to roll to confirm critical hits unless you specifically roll a 20 anyway. Most monsters or enemies don't have a special ability that triggers after a hit, and there aren't many weapons or spells that deal lingering stat effects or anything of the sort.
I will concede that BAB and cover bonuses and modifiers make it a bit more numbers heavy than the first guy was making out but don't fucking pretend that one die and some addition or subtraction is crunchier than WoD's dice pool.
I really like the dice, but I didn't like having to buy two sets of them to have enough to actually play.
I like how open ended the results can be, the narrative play.
>>44333165
>>44333315
>>44339020
>all of my dice are opaque
>>44349276
Don't listen to them. The only reason clear dice are standard in casinos is you can't conceal weights in them. There is nothing inherently better or worst with clear or transparent dice.
