In our 5th ed game, a nasty evil thing from beyond space and time has begun nomming on the Gods.
The Good Gods get attacked first and several get destroyed - the rest band together to defend creation.
The Evil Gods, meanwhile, decide to get the fuck away from the thing who just ate their the Lord of War's face like it was nothing and take corporeal forms upon the realm of Mortals. Though severely weakened, they're still Gods. How do I make their encounters interesting and different from other fights in case the party runs into them? How would they interact with said evil Gods?
The Gods in the setting are pretty Greek-influenced, so they're not all just evil for the lulz, despite their alignments. They also don't want to destroy the world, because belief and faith = everything in the setting, so they need people who believe in them to remain powerful.
>>44323933
Gods are as follows;
>The Destroyer: Lord of slaughter, destruction and mindless carnage. Appears as a red-skinned brute howling in fury and bearing a battleaxe. Chaotic Evil.
>Lady Lament: Goddess of Misfortune and failure. Appears as a weeping, black-haired woman with a broken sword and a withered bouquet of flowers. Neutral Evil.
>The Despoiler: The goddess of decay, deceit and dishonesty. Appears as a skeletal, withered young woman with a bloody knife in her hands. Neutral Evil.
>The Leviathan: The god of natural disasters, the abyss and unburied dead. Appears as a terrible sea-beast of many eyes and mouths. Chaotic Evil.
>The Collector: The god of disease, famine and poverty. Appears as a gaunt figure riding a sickly horse with a scythe and a heavy bag full of lost souls. Lawful Evil.
>Venal: The vengeance, corruption and tyranny. Appears as a regal man clad in black with a crown of jagged iron, holding a long blade in judgment. Lawful Evil.
>The Queen of Winter: The goddess of winter and the fear of wild and unknown places. Appears as a beautiful, statuesque queen clad in white furs and surrounded by malicious, malnourished white wolves with bloody teeth and claws. Chaotic Evil.
>The Lord of Riots: The god of anarchy, evil urges and excess. Appears as a handsome man splattered in blood standing in a roaring pyre. Chaotic Evil.
>The Adversary: The god of temptation, of hasty action, criminals and prejudice. Appears as a young man beckoning to follow him. Neutral Evil.
>The Keeper: The god of forbidden knowledge, black magic and self-interest. Appears as a black raven. Neutral Evil.
>>44323933
>The Gods in the setting are pretty Greek-influenced, so they're not all just evil for the lulz, despite their alignments
Why bother with alignments at all then?
>>44324167
Because they are still evil and adhere to their alignments, but they are not evil because they are of a certain alignment, they have a certain alignment because they are evil. Y'know?
And besides alignments are a part of D&D. And if I'm going to play D&D, I'm going to use alignments as well.
[1/2]
>>44324288
>they are not evil because they are of a certain alignment, they have a certain alignment because they are evil. Y'know?
So, like every single D&D character when people understand what the alignments are?
>>44323933
>>44323938
>How do I make their encounters interesting and different from other fights in case the party runs into them? How would they interact with said evil Gods?
>The Destroyer:
This is a murderer and a tormentor who's scared, maybe for the first time, to finaly get what he's been inflicting on others.
He could have gone paranoid, overly terrified of everything. He's convinced the party is here FOR HIM! But he won't let them do it, oh no, they won't get him!
For the fight, imagine a bullying pseudo tough-guy who has a real threat after him. Make it a long chase scene, maybe, with the Destroyer spamming everything he can while he madly tries to flee.
>Lady Lament:
I'd say the circumstance have turned her into a "I told you so" person, smug to see her despair being justified. Yet, the fact she didn't stay to die means she still has some fire left, and maybe it can be fanned enough to break her out of her saddness.
For the fight, maybe have her get more and more combative as it goes. Her sword start rebuilding itself, the flowers grow in vigor, she stops weeping and an armor gradually appears on her.
>>The Despoiler:
The end of all things is here, so she is overjoyed. She's just enjoying the show until entropy claims her as well.
For the fight, she'll simply try to backstab someone, make one cut, then disappear. Then she'll do it again, and again and again, until the long agony ends. Will target especially those who try to stop the evil thing.
>The Leviathan:
A cornered snake, animalistic, pissed off, and desperatly looking for a way out.
For the fight, let's play on how big and animal-like this god is: hit and run tactic, but with him hitting and modifying the whole battlefield each time.
>>44325077
[2/3]
>Leviathan, suite:
The area not covered by water should become more and more restraint, as the god is zero'ing for the kill. Imagine a shark swimming all around the PCs, attacking with lightning speed, then retreating underwater, unseen.
>>The Collector:
I imagine her as a businesswoman who see someone destroying what she own. She is pissed her proper order is broken, with all her powers, depts and favors in jeopardy, and is willing to deal with those who pretend being able to fix it.
For the combat, I think she would rely mostly on the lost souls to weaken the party, then strike when the least expected.
>Venal:
Another one who is very angry, at his own powerlessness more than anything else. Like a dictator who has to tolerate an idiot smashing his masterpiece artworks because said idiot is the son of an even more powerful dictator.
But he is planning, plotting, scheming, and has already been gathering his power. For the moment, he's holing up in a bunker, somewhere.
For the fight, I'll imagine him using as little resources as possible, pragmaticaly killing his foes with as little strikes as he can spares. Completly dismissive of the heroes, as he doesn't think they're a threat to him.
>The Queen of Winter:
A queen whose realm was wounded, on the warpath. Willing to discuss and ally with anyone able to deal with the entity, but with little patience and demanding actions and results.
I think the fight would be best if she herself consider it a spar, no matter how murderous she acts. She's testing the PCs' strength, in an arena formed by her wolves circling the opponents, and biting them if they try to escape rather than to fight her.
>>The Lord of Riots:
Still chaotic and anarchist, trying to have one last laugh of epic proportion before the end.
The fight could be made interesting by him summoning monsters who then start fighting him, the PCs and each other.
>>44325402
>The Adversary:
He is trying to sacrifice enough mortals to make the entity spare him. Will pretend to get along with anyone and anything, until he can betray them.
For the fight, make him continualy try to escape, no matter if the PCs are a threat or not.
>>The Keeper:
He is worried, but will try to help to save his own skin, in a detourned and cryptic manner. Will try to manipulate the PCs to further his power-gaining agenda, even as they succeed in the mission. Might pretend to be a wizard's familiar for a while, and won't reveal himself as a god
For the fight, he'll use indirect magic, illusions and traps, while circling above the battlefield
>>44325501
>>44325402
>>44325077
Is this alright, OP?
>>44325077
>>44325402
>>44325501
>>44325516
This is pretty fucking cool, gave me a lot of good ideas. I especially like your ideas on the Destroyer and Lady Lament. Cool stuff. Will definitely put to use, thanks.
>>44325879
You're welcome!
And thank you for the compliment
>>44325402
Stealing the fuck out of the ring of wolves as an arena.
>>44326411
Yeah, I like this image, too.
Bloody, angry, nasty white wolves all around
>>44323933
Could always play it for dark laughs. The Dark Gods are on earth in mortal form! ...they're all Level 1, have one special power, their class, and some fancy little addition to their racial template whatever it may be. Turns out the Thing got most of their juju juice when they were bailing out. As in literally 99.99999999999% of it. Or they bailed so fast and poorly it fucked up and left them all helpless.
They now have to SURVIVE, with no means of growing stronger other than the dirty old fashioned way.
Their first encounter is meeting the (currently much higher level) PCs.
>>44326504
That and, for set piece battles with battle maps drawn out, I spend like half an hour drawing a room and as soon as I whip it out they bottleneck in an a hallway just outside the room. The system I use even lets you trade damage for pushing, so I could make their master just be built towards pushing people to get them into the teeth and out of her grill.
>>44326606
So, sumo with wolves?
I can dig it...
>>44326580
This is something I had considered as well. Although it'd be interesting and funny, I think that I'd rather have them as "optional minibosses" or characters that you can deal with so they become allies. Or if the players play their hand perfectly, the new Good pantheon after they deal with The Thing. With enough belief and faith, Lady Lament would become the patron of enduring grief and failure, the goddess of determination and unbowed heroism and the Lord of Riots a god of celebration, freedom and individuality, for example.
>>44326717
Oh I'd do that as well, I'd just make it clear that the party just walked into the chance of a LIFETIME if they play their cards certain ways.
Make the initial group small, not all of them, and have one or two be the nasty warrior type. But still blatantly show the players "Hey you could KILL LIKE 4 DARK GODS AND POWERGRAB RIGHT NOW" or have them think of the long game, with the Thing, and allies they could make, or later power grabs if they decide to protect the gods.
You can still have them as minibosses, though. Just have the most important ones met first, and some reason the rest need to come back together; gives the others time to level up into threats again, and an excuse to social the evil gods or get them out of danger in order to defeat the Thing, or steal back divine power, etc.
>>44326826
Personaly, I'd put the majority of the gods in separate places and have them be independant of each others.
When the PCs visit the settlements near where the fallen god is, they hear of the new nasty that showed up (for those who are not subtile) or have a chance to see or hear something clueing them on their play (for those who are).
>>44326826
That would work nicely too. Especially since I have established that the evil Gods always looked out for each other like a big dysfunctional family, mostly out of necessity due to being much weaker than the Good gods. So they'd have a reason to hang together after becoming mortals.
>>44326945
I'd allow some to end up in groups though, so the gods are forced to rely on one another to create more interesting dynamics and potential for backstabs, alliances, falls/redemptions from grace, etc.
>>44326981
There you go. They'd work even better then hunting for the others before the Thing finds them like some fucked Hound of Tindalos or something. Some sorry ass league of level 1 scrub fucks who have to eat it whole from the OTHER end now; got nothin' but each other.
>>44326981
This sounds pretty strange to me.
Especially considering how different the gods are. I have trouble imagining them hanging out together .
I would put them in separate locations, each with their own scheme or activity. Alliances between them is still possible, though
>>44323933
Such things are not the purview of 5e PC. Perhaps have them deal with the smaller-scale personal fallout of the loss of a town's patron god creating a power vacuum that leads to a gang trying to sieze power. Maybe they are charged with protecting a group of pilgrims hoping to reach their god's central temple and futily revive him with their prayers.
However, the gods themselves are sort of outside the ability of 5e to mechanically represent as anything statistically relevant to a PC's scope; the system is specifically designed to create PC's who never get "larger than life."
The big cosmic shit can still be happening, but try to think "how would this impact the little guy, and what opportunities to help (or exploit depending on the party) does this open up for the PCs.
>>44327021
Eh, making them too weak just remove the challenge.
I would still make them fucking good, but by mortal standards. Like. strong as a Balor or a bit weaker.
>>44327094
With all due respect, that depends very much on the setting and how the DM rules things and creates the world. Just because it's a CR 4 monster doesn't mean you can't refluff it as an infernal headhunter responsible for collecting souls on the run fro the forces of Hell and make the players think it's the toughest shit they're ever gonna face.
>>44327087
Families don't necessarily always agree, get along or even wanna deal with each other, but when it really comes down to it, they help each other out.
>>44327094
That's wrong, though.
High level PCs are specificaly said to be able to handle that kind of things. And they're definitively larger than life.
Heck, the official modules let you fight Tiamat and several Demon Princes, in instences where they try to fuck the world up
>>44327152
I guess I feel like that eats away the player's chances to make something more of this than your standard 'super strong dark lords you gotta beat down'
If SOME of them are like that, sure. I just feel it'd make for a better narrative socially speaking if they're even below the players, and have to survive entirely on wits, tricks relating to their Godly concept, and actually not acting like an evil idiot for 10 seconds.
Plus, if you have an event where the Thing shows up, and the players clearly see like three stray Gods get torn open and licked clean like juice boxes, you can set the scale where "Most of them are weak, some are savvy and are quickly running the ladder up to 20+ while they figure out whatt the fuck to do, most are banded together, or trying to find former cultists to start something with"
I dunno, I just see a lot more potential here beyond just "Go to place, Themed God Fight, next"
>>44327257
>With all due respect, that depends very much on the setting and how the DM rules things and creates the world. Just because it's a CR 4 monster doesn't mean you can't refluff it as an infernal headhunter responsible for collecting souls on the run fro the forces of Hell and make the players think it's the toughest shit they're ever gonna face.
The anon you're responding to doesn't know what he's talking about.
To give an exemple, Orcus, Demon Prince of the Undead, has a CR of 26.
It would be a Deadly Encounter for 7 level 20 heroes. While damn impressive, it's not impossible.
>>44327284
>Anon uses a pic you made
...Man this, is the best feeling ever.
Where did you find it?
>>44327284
Even if they're strong enough to challenge players, doesn't mean they'd just be a fight bait. And maye some can be like level three, while others are 10 or even 18 or something. They can all be more than a themed boss battle in any case, especially considering they are not the main event of the campaign.
>>44323938
http://theangrygm.com/return-of-the-son-of-the-dd-boss-fight-now-in-5e/
>>44327284
Also, I'm not saying "Go to place, Themed God Fight", I'm saying "Go to place, you must handle the god the way you think is best".
Having them be too weak would make them useless.
Maybe we could just say that while individualy, they're weaker than the group, they could still pose a serious threat to one or two PCs?
In my experience, having them be too weak is just an invitation for the players to solve the problem with a sword
>>44327431
No, you got what I mean. Give them a spread in terms of ability for sure, but I'd keep a lot of them behind, because if they're ALL still very powerful, then they will just be more boss battles, and the PCs won't be really necessary either. Plus you could have inter-god conflicts, threats of them doing the Final Shank now that they're stuck mortal, or even former cultists looking to rip them open for a piece in revenge.
>>44327257
>>44327400
>>44327276
On power-scaling in 5e: The collapsed proficiency chart, bounded statistics, low-level monsters designed to never stop being an accidental OHK threat (just a reduced chance,) and other such design choices very heavily lean 5e in a particular direction. That direction is much more world focused (as opposed to character focused,) smaller in scale, and higher in verisimilitude.
On a scale of 1-10 ranging from 1 as "The Dark Eye" at the most "players are insignificant specks bouncing in a nihilist German fever-dream" to 10 as Exalted at the other end of the spectrum, 5e is maybe a 2.5. That's not a bad thing. 5e knows what its doing, and specializes towards that kind of game. The thing is, when the difference between lvl 1 and lvl 20 is a 20% swing on the d20 (maybe double with magical equipment) the difference between a lvl 1 PC and a lvl 20 PC is much closer to the real-world difference between a new soldier and a grizzled veteran than the difference between a farm boy who just got a destiny and the hero of fate who frees the kingdom from tyranny. Unless you go out of your way to make lvl 1 already feel like "near the top" of the narrative heroic journey, like>>44327257 suggested when he said
>Just because it's a CR 4 monster doesn't mean you can't refluff it as an infernal headhunter responsible for collecting souls on the run fro the forces of Hell
you're going to be actively fighting the system to make the game feel high in power-scale.
Think less Anime/Dragonlance, and think more Game of Thrones. Like I said, that's not a bad thing, I love game of thrones, but system matters, and while every game CAN be run in every system, some genres synergize better with certain mechanics.
>>44328402
D&D is epic heroic fantasy, and works best as that. It's pulpy and silly and makes no sense most of the time. Despite 5th edition being more streamlined and quicker doesn't make it any less so, especially when characters can tank dozens of hits and simply not die. It's nowhere near GoT in any way. Especially since Balors and Planetars are not even credible threats at high levels.
I'm not going against the system design by making the adventure epic and high-flying from 1 to 20 - I'm making it what D&D should be, what it's meant to be. High-octane, high stakes action with wpic heroes and plane-spanning adventure.
Played a game where some of the gods either had physical forms or could adopt physical forms.
I just remember one in particular, a grumpy goat/satyr type goddess of relatively normal appearance and size, and she'd stand in people's way on roads and bridges to block them, and if/when she got grumpy enough she would just randomly start headbutting things.
>>44328655
>D&D is epic heroic fantasy, and works best as that. It's pulpy and silly and makes no sense most of the time.
Some editions of D&D are epic heroic fantasy.... most notably 4e and to a lesser degree (but more than had ever been seen before at the time) 3e. Earlier editions were, unless you house-ruled the ever-loving-FUCK out of them, fantasy survival horror
>Especially since Balors and Planetars are not even credible threats at high levels.
Dude, nothing stops being a credible threat. That's one of the intentional, explicitly stated, POINTS of their design choices. They are actively and explicitely trying to emulate the style of editions BEFORE the game became epic heroic fantasy, and format it in a way familiar to 3e fans.
>I'm not going against the system design by making the adventure epic and high-flying
You REALLY are, and while I salute your efforts (much like the efforts of my group back in the 90's to house rule 2e until it felt like the fantasy novels that brought us to the genre) you are actively fighting the system.
>High-octane, high stakes action with wpic heroes and plane-spanning adventure.
You're thinking of 3e, and 4e, and Exalted, and a number of other systems. Each edition is its own game, and 5e is no different. Just because it shares a name with the game you started with doesn't mean it's designed to do the same thing as the game you started with.
>>44328868
Then what DOES it try to do? Because if the system strives for danger, GoT-like danger or realistic grittiness, it fails, badly. No monster ten levels behind the player is ever gonna be a credible threat, except in massive hordes.
>>44328868
>>44328655
Dude, level 20 characters can kill armies single-handly.
And I don't think any work where a lord of the demons can be wrestled by a mortal can count as "Game of Throne" level
Hell, high level characters can go around in the planes, fight outsiders, and come back with the riches.
They can even fight gods, and win
>>44329034
>Then what DOES it try to do?
From a mechanical game-design perspective?
>Gets combat over with quickly
From a marketing perspective?
>Is inoffensive enough to fans of 2e, 3e, and 4e alike that getting a game together is really easy.
>>44323933
The barb becomes the Queen of Winter's consort.
>>44329520
Why are you ignoring the "can punch gods in the face and survive" part of the game?
This all sounds very similar to order of the stick.
>>44329817
Because a 20% statistical change in chance of success on a d20, slightly higher AC (but still bounded,) slightly more damage, and more hit-points is not the same as "can punch gods in the face and survive" unless we're really supposed to swallow that the difference between a god and a lvl1 PC is "a 30% swing on a d20, noticably higher damage, and slightly-higher-than-bounded AC"
Personally, I can't swallow that pill.
>>44329948
I suppose it does now that I think of it, since you don't know what else is going on in the settin and where te Thing cane from.
>>44329762
He promptly gets fed to the wolves for thinking he can tame the wilds.
>>44330112
Consort, not tamer. Compared to nature, he has no choice but be the beta.
>>44330014
... Did you see the gods' stat, anon?
>>44330014
>>44330355
There is a lot of difference between a level 1 and a level 20 PC
Here's some calculation I did a few months back on the kind of things a level 20 fighter can do.
>All these ideas
Gold. I know what the next game I run will be about.
How does the thing track down the gods? Can it sense their power?
Because the perfect introduction to this threat greater than gods of evil could be something like:
>The pc's have managed to tear through the band of Zealot mercenaries the destroyer has raised as a mortal
>They chase him down through the ruins of his castle/whatever, both making potshots at each other and doing slight damage
>Eventually as he is cornered, the destroyer's frustration with mortality grows too much, and he attempts to utilise a small fraction of his power to power up and crush the party
>However in this moment of pure power, the eldritch thing is able to finally track him down, ultimately saving the pc's, but causing great destruction to the local area that they narrowly escape from
>And like that it fades away, still searching for more prey, lurking between planes etc.
>>44323933
>How do I make their encounters interesting and different from other fights in case the party runs into them?
Everything around them for miles is aspected by the god's portfolio and symbolism.
>>44323938
>Destroyer
Everyone hear him must make a will save or start fighting. Doesn't matter who.
>Lament
All flowers and plants wilt. Weapons break on a critical miss.
>Despoiler
Skill checks to identify a lie automatically fail. Skill checks to deceive succeed.
>Leviathan
You ever read Worm? Even has the same name. Leviathan brings the ocean along with. Anything that doesn't like tsunamis suffers.
>Collector
Doesn't seem to do anything, just picks up souls. He hangs out in places where people are poor and have poor healthcare though, which presumably is due to his influence.
>Venal
He immediately supplants some king, and goes on to be a JRPG-tier evil overlord.
>Winter
She does that snow bitch stuff like in Frozen but instead of snowmen she makes white wolves that hunt humans.
>Riot
Like the Destroyer, wherever he goes it's will save or go full Rakdos.
>Adversary
Nothing special. He appears like a total ordinary person. Don't introduce him first, let the PCs guess at what's special about him.
>Keeper
Nothing special. He flutters around and sometimes gives the PCs advice. Not sure what's evil about this guy.
>>44324288
Alignments aren't an inherent part of D&D for two editions now. They're just there if you need that kind of scaffolding to be able to imitate roleplaying.
>>44327094
It's not easy to do with 5e but it's doable. Certainly easier to make seem appropriate than earlier editions.
>>44330576
The story behind the Thing is that it's a demiplane as much as it's a creature, created by two powerful Wizard-Kings to collect souls to utilize their energy and ultimately ascend them to godhood to godhood so they can reforge the world in their image. The five other Wizard-Kings realized what was going on and kickstarted a war that backfired and got them all killed, leaving the Thing unsupervised. As it fed upon souls through aeons, it spurred out of control, becoming a threat to gods and the very fabric of reality: the Silent Queen. It can't be reasoned or bargained with, because it's really not intelligent. It exists only to devour souls, then gods, then worlds, then realities and ultimately, creation itself.
It's drawn to powerful souls, a bit like demons in 40k. Though I enjoy your idea, might use it.
>>44330578
loving it. Will use.
>>44328868
>High-octane, high stakes action with wpic heroes and plane-spanning adventure
>3e
Nigga what
3e is just as bad at this as 5e, if not worse. And honestly, 4e isn't much better.
What even is your criteria for being a good system for epic stuff? The kind of pictures they put in the book?
>>44330941
Yeah, I get it you don't like it and think its shit. I like other systems too. But 5th ed is good for what it does, and that is fantasy adventure where shit happens and you kill stuff. Just because it's popular don't mean you need to hate it.
>>44331089
Please answer the actual question posed.
>>44330576
>Gold
Thanks you a lot.
Also, I've got a good pic for elder gods
>>44331109
My criteria for a good system?
...
Fun.
>>44330420
That's an awful lot of feats for someone who's assumed to have 20 STR and 20 CON. You only get five of those bumps ever.
>>44331192
So in other words, you refuse to answer the question or back up your statements with evidence of any kind?
>>44331192
Anon asked for why you considered 3.5 epic, though
>>44331195
It's only one feat.
>>44331268
>>44331195
Heavy Armor Master's the only feat involved. The rest is basic class option
>>44331234
>>44331216
I never talked about 3.5 though.
Anyway, 5th is perfect for what my group wants to play right now: light epic fun in a traditional fantasy setting. It's perfect for that. We enjoy it. I don't know how or even want to explain it further. If you think that's badwrongfun, then I'm sorry for you.
>>44331192
No. Fun is mostly a feature of your group anyway, not your system. The question is what aspect, preferably what specific mechanical features of the system, are you evaluating when considering if a system is more or less effective for "epic heroic fantasy" or "High-octane, high stakes action with wpic heroes and plane-spanning adventure."
>>44331326
>I never talked about 3.5 though.
>>High-octane, high stakes action with wpic heroes and plane-spanning adventure.
>You're thinking of 3e, and 4e, and Exalted, and a number of other systems
I think people are just getting confused on what's being debated, here.
>>44330941
>High-octane, high stakes action with wpic heroes and plane-spanning adventure
>3e
>Nigga what
>3e is just as bad at this as 5e, if not worse. And honestly, 4e isn't much better.
>What even is your criteria for being a good system for epic stuff? The kind of pictures they put in the book?
First off>>44331089 >>44331109 isn't me, but I agree with him in general.
When 3e first came out, one of the largest criticisms of the system was that PC's were heroes from the get-go, and that it was "overpowered anime bullshit." When compared to the field of epic-adventure systems these days, it doesn't measure up, but this was 2000.
Second, my criteria would be as such
>1: Combat is fun, independent of context. It should be fun enough to drive the game if it has to
That's the ACTION part
>2: The PC's should feel fundamentally different, on both a mechanical and fluff level, to PC obstacles. This doesn't necessarily HAVE to mean more powerful all the time, but there's a difference between being "just another [insert-class]" and being "one of the chosen ones."
That's the EPIC part
>3: Despite being the chosen ones, some mechanical doo-hickey, be it deminishing resources, or something else we haven't thought of yet, maintains meta-tension, even if you know you're going to defeat the horde of mook-orcs.
Personally, to me, FATE and 4e are the only two systems I've played to accomplish all 3, though combat can drag in 4e, and FATE doesn't have enough crunch for everyone to latch on to.
Some systems that come close:
>Meets 1 and 3 but not 2
Legends of the Wulin and Savage Worlds
Meets Requirement 2 and 3 but not 1
>Dungeon World
5e meets only requirement 3, and some but not all elements of requirement 2. You might give it a pass on requirement 1, because boring combat can be forgiven if it's over in the time it takes to sneaze.
>>44331346
How about yes? I've zero reason to explain to any of you why I enjoy a certain system, and this thread is not for that anyway. Fuck off.
