![TR_TravelRoutes_Solstheim-75[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/36HO82V.jpg "TR_TravelRoutes_Solstheim-75[1].png")
Learn how to make a general Edition
>Tabletop/P&P RPGs
[Scrollhammer - Tabletop Wargame] 1d4chan.org/wiki/Scrollhammer_2nd_Edition
Discussion in #Scrollhammer (irc.thisisnotatrueending.com (port 6667))
[UESRPG 1e + other TES RPGs] http://www.mediafire.com/uesrpg
Discussion in #UESRPG (same server)
>Lore Resources
[The Imperial Library] http://www.imperial-library.info/
[/r/teslore] http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/
[UESP/Lore] http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Main_Page
[Pocket Guide to the Lore] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AtsWXZKVqB4Q825_SwINY6z4_9NaGknXgeOknOCDuCU/edit
[Elder Lore Podcast] http://www.elderlore.wordpress.com/
[How to Become a Lore Buff] http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1112211-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/
>General Rules
No waifus please.
Keep the MK related squabbling to a minimum.
Tamriel Rebuilt 15.12 released! http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/?q=content/tamriel-rebuilt-1512-release
Previous Kalpa: >>44153103
Well we use this thread then.
>>44261803
Too many transports compared to Vvardenfell
Has anyone tried OpenMW 0.37?
>>44261803
Thank theEightDivines a better thr.... wait a minute..
>Tamriel Rebuilt 15.12 released!
See you next week lads.
>>44263307
>>44262778
>in your lifetime, you will get to explore a proper depiction of Black Marsh through a glorious open source engine.
Truly a glorious time. Though does Tamriel Rebuilt populate the land with NPCs and quest content?
>>44263394
Yes, the Main release is full with NPCs and quests, the "beta" part is in different stages of production. Check the page.
Tell me about Spriggans. What is their motive, their origin? Are they some kind of daedra?
>>44264093
They're nature spirits, so they probably have a strong connection to the ehlnofey.
>>44264093
Well they're old Kyne aligned spirits who are supposed to protect nature or something but for some reason have a constant blood thirsty desire to kill anyone they come across.
All I know for sure is that I hate them and it puts me in a good mood whenever I see their heads on a spike.
>>44264093
Like mermaids, centaurs, gargoyles and gryphons, they are there because DnD.
>>44264430
Spriggans are connected to Kyne, yes. Akatosh has his dragons. Do other Aedra have their own minions?
>>44264472
Hagraven pls go
>>44264553
Zenithar has child labor force.
>>44262125
Would you rather they just implemented Oblivion-style fast travel?
>>44263394
Imagine actually starting in a jail cell in the Imperial City and being physically transported in real time to Morrowind to start the main quest.
I guess the entire /tgesg/ is college students. Welp, may Julianos aid you in your finals.
>>44264553
Kynareth also has Unicorns. I think Julianos uses Owls as messengers.
Have you guys ever roleplayed a bosmer that follows the green pact in the games
>>44265703
>Green Pact
>Can't use plant ingredients
>Can't use wooden-hafted weapons.
>Don't roll Axe/Blunt
>Don't into Alchemy.
Easy, why bother?
>>44265703
No, most of the games don't let you eat people anyway. And the prohibition against harming plants only applies within the borders of Valenwood iirc.
>>44265791
>Only eat meat
>If you kill something you must eat it within 3 days
>>44265791
>no wood
The pact dictates that they may not hurt the forests of Valenwood. They can use arrows or spears made from the trees of Black Marsh for example.
>no plant ingredients
It says nothing about using the sap liquid, pollen, bark or fruits of plants unless you eat it for nourishment.
>can't into alchemy
Are you telling me that you lack the imagination to craft an alchemical product that you don't put into bottles and drink? Make creams, incense, salts, perfumes, paint and so on. Jeez.
>>44265863
I think fallen branches and fruit is addressed at some point. It's a moderate stance in Valenwood.
If you were living in the Cyrodilic heartland, who would you worship? What cults would you be a member of?
>>44266056
Depends on the era.
>tfw not an Alessian rape gang, teaching Ayleid who's superior
>>44261803
>Learn how to make a general Edition
fuck you, I only made it because your lazy ass didn't
>>44266333
Chill friend, have a sip of greef.
>>44266333
Then your lazy ass could have copy-pasted the OP from any archived thread as well.
What is CHIM?
>>44267789
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH
>>44267789
Love.
>>44266170
Let's call it mid third era.
>>44267964
If I am;
>Imperial
Obviously Talos, because I deserve greatness
>Nord
Obviously Talos, because I've always been great
>Breton
Gods are only social necessities, they are not very important in my life. I will be greater
>Khajiit
This one may say it worships Azurah the way you would say you love your neighbor
>Altmer
Each and every one of our Ancestors has their importance surely, but this is not the time to discuss these matters. I must figure out the answer.
>Argonian
I am not concerned with such things.
>Orc
If I worshipped anything, it would be Mauloch
>Bosmer
Yffre. Any other questions?
>Redguard
Tall Papa. Move along now.
>Dunmer
Tribunal, because fuck all else.Especially the so-called Divines. Fuck those guys
>>44262778
Yup, it seems to work fine - no shadows implemented yet though.
Let's discuss whybretonsare the worst race
>>44270837
Every human race is worst race.
Why play a role playing game in a fantasy world of magic and choose to be a human?But that's just like my opinion, man.
>>44270941
>Every human race is worst race.
Hey now, Nords, Imperials and Redguards are pretty cool for various reasons. Breton are just boring human/mer mutts and nobody would care for them if they didn't have the most overpowered racial abilities.
>>44266056
Pelin-el
>>44263696
Are the quest lines good? Is there an overarching plot? Or is it just sort of the random collection of quests you can find by wondering vvardenfell?
>>44272442
It's just miscellaneous quests right now. The full landmass hasn't been completed, and until then there probably won't be a main quest.
>>44270941
>Why play a role playing game in a fantasy world of magic and choose to be a human?
Are you serious?
Can you please explain to me why humans don't fit into a fantasy world?
>>44272740
Well sure they fit in, they're just boring is all.
>>44272789
>not playing HFY scenarios and showing the filthy elves who is boss.
I bet you think pissskins are attractive you race traitor.
>>44267949
Chrony pls hush
>>44272789
Why? Because they don't have long ears or something?
Can somebody dump some lore pics, like how Talos is Akatosh? I'd appreciate it.
>>44270837
>>44271047
Your shit-taste is showing.P.S., your waifu takes more milkfingers than Ayem.
>>44274521
I've got some. This one is pretty outdated. We know that the snake represents Orkey now, for instance.
>>44274715
Thanks, man. If you have any more like it, I'd really appreciate it.
>>44274715
In Nordic totems, at least.
>>44274780
Anything you're interested in specifically?
>>44274832
That was, for the record, an earlier theory.
>>44274850
>>44274832
Metaphysics stuff, I guess. Give me what interests you, anon.
>>44274920
Coming right up. My collection is actually pretty outdated too.
This is an alternate interpretation.
>>44274981
>>44275166
It would probably just be easier to read this online.
>>44275363
LIVE, DAMN YOU!
>>44274715
Sithis is such a bro.
>>44271047
>Breton are just boring human/mer mutts and nobody would care for them if they didn't have the most overpowered racial abilities.
>fantasy game
>people like to play knights, paladins, and wizards in fantasy games
>bretons are tailor made to be knights, paladins, and wizards
i think think bretons are bad meme has taken off and people just repeat it without even crafting good bait
>>44278180
just to add. their flavor is perfectly suited for it whether their racials do or dont
bretons are literally master race
dunmer get second place from making drow that are actually cool and not turbo edgy
on a side note. elder scrolls is really good for outing furry faggots. just ask them what race they play and if its one of the furries, bully them.
>>44271047
>le ebin bretons r boring maymay
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dM0O4dV7lMBQjqDMLfM3MIpcISy6JbaJsBOjiw8YxJI/edit enjoy muthsera :^)
>>44278244
This is legitimately impressive.
>>44266056
Imperial cult probably, mainly TalOS and Akatosh I guess, with a side dish of Herma-Mora
>>44277876
What
A YOUNG N'WAH ON THE WARPATH
AND WHEN I FINISH, IT'S GONNA BE A BLOODBATH
>>44266056
Dibella.
>>44270837
>not bosmer
why so ded?
>>44280543
Because I'm busy as shit, and I don't have anything in particular I'd like to bring up this weekend.
>>44274521
>>44274715
>We know that the snake represents Orkey now
This is such a load of shit, why the fuck did they make the snake represent Orkey and not Lorkhan. It doesn't make any sense!
>>44281073
Same here, I guess.
>>44280543
i could shit talk lady n and kuckbridge but iv been busy playing eso
i guess a lot of people have finals/leaving on winter break
Well since the thread's so slow ill bring up somthing i wanted to ask about oblivion. Anyone play the fcom superpack, is everything lore friendly? I cant wait to try it out.
Also what does tesg think about zaric zhacoran, specificly his tes content.
>>44282015
>>We know that the snake represents Orkey now
>This is such a load of shit
>doesn't make any sense!
For a second, lets assume Arkay was indeed a mortal once (as in originally not a Divine).
How do we know the mortal Arkay, who would later become the Divine Arkay was not a shezzarine just like Talos?
Think about it, Shezzarines are basically tools of Lorkhan to fuck with Akatosh and his pals. First time he infiltrates their ranks is via introducing a cycle of life and death. It's so genius if you think about it; it is equally static and changing. This cycle necessitates that stasis can not be without change (birth; new possibilities) and that change can not be without stasis (death; refutation of will). This strained Akatosh/Lorkhan so much that time was literally locked into this cycle. One could not exist without the other.
This is the original source of the common myths regarding death and mortality. Even in the real world, every single mythology has its own story of transition from timelessness/immortality to time/mortality.
So Orkey is simply a cultural construct (just like the animist religion of tribal Nords with Kyne as a hawk etc.) as the amalgamation of the "villainous" aspect of death, justified by personifying it as an Orc(Malacath) and the "inevitable" aspect of death as Arkay.
Hence, Orkey IS Lorkhan as Lorkhan is Padomay.
>>44284100
>Also what does tesg think about...
This is tgesg.
For tesg
>>>/vg/
>>44284301
But that's just it!
"The Fox" itself is already a reoccurring symbol with Shezarrines specifically. Han's the Fox, Arnand the Fox, Pelinal himself was prophecized to return as a Fox (Arnand) or Light (Reman). Arnand himself was an earlier incarnation of Arctus, as stated by KoW, and Arctus' fucking name itself sounds almost identical to "Arkay"!
The Snake, on the other hand, is a symbol completely associated with Lorkhan. There is literally a constellation in the sky that contains his ghost in the shape of a snake, not even to mention the whole Bird v. Snake = Dragon enantiomorph shit. I mean I could understand Lorkhan being the fox, if the snake wasn't included in the Pantheon, but seriously? You're going to fucking add a snake totem and not make it fucking Lorkhan?! I mean this completely undermines the whole Talos standing over Lorkhan in his statue business!
I'm convinced someone at Bethesda just fucked up when they assigned the fox as Orkey.
I mean they also called Tsun the "Bear" when he is without a doubt the "whale".
http://michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/128602974278/excerpt-from-a-tesv-skyrim-design-document-with
>>44284445
Jesus christ i missed one letter, fine whatever.
>>44284589
You're looking at this too much from the video game / "EITHER CANON OR NOT" point of view. Look at it from the eyes of a Nord storyteller who came up with this religion (like Clan Mother Ahnissi but they had the advantage of their milk). The things you see in Elder Scrolls are not necessarily singular objective truth or facts. If someone represents Orkey as The Snake, perhaps they believed so. Look at how vastly different a single, essentially same religion can be (Marukhati vs. Alessia's understanding of Eight Divines vs. Aldmeri pantheon). And now consider Nords, a people who have NOTHING but symbology and oral tradition. Everything they believe in and practice is simply reinterpretation.
Look for meaning behind meaning. Why "The Bear"? Allusion to endurance, to a challenger, to majesty? Might be anything. There is no instance in Tamrielic history when the Godhead came to earth and said "Listen, Tsun is the Bear. Ok? Good. I'm glad we sorted this out. Ciao!"
>Talos standing over Lorkhan
Well that's how YOU see it. Maybe the artisan who built the statue said "Fucken Orkey, always messing shit up. I'll show him by glorifying my God against his tricks!"
In the end, the only important thing is what the believers make of the spirits and gods. They work on a level above mortal pondering anyway.
>>44284804
This.
Lorkhan as a snake is more of an Elf thing anyway.
>>44284589
Shezarr is Lorkhan, and not every religions symbolism has to align.
Tsun and Stuhn switch places. One guards to the corpse of the other.
>>44274715
>We know that the snake represents Orkey now, for instance.
What
>>44286503
Okrey is the snake, Shor is the fox.
>>44284804
>the advantage of their milk
What?
>>44284804
Listen man, I've already explained why Lorkhan needs to be the snake. Like I said, Lorkhan being the Fox would have been fine if there wasn't a snake totem, but having the snake totem in there and not having it as Lorkhan is like having the Dragon totem not be Alduin.
There is a reason why Lorkhan is the snake, these are important symbols in the universe. Lorkhan literally swims around the sky in the form of the snake, you expect me to be content with him now a fox with literally no standing at all? Would you also be fine with Kyne being depicted as a hedgedog?
>There is no instance in Tamrielic history when the Godhead came to earth and said "Listen, Tsun is the Bear. Ok? Good. I'm glad we sorted this out. Ciao!
Tsun, the dead god of testing a Nord's worthiness who guards the carcass of a whale which is the only entrance into what is the greatest testament of a Nord's worth.
You're right, the Nords must worship him as the Bear!
>Well that's how YOU see it. Maybe the artisan who built the statue said "Fucken Orkey, always messing shit up. I'll show him by glorifying my God against his tricks!
Except not only does that undermine the fact that the statue is supposed to be about Talos and not Orkey, it destroys everything that made that statue interesting in the first place.
>>44285505
>Shezarr is Lorkhan
Where did I imply that I didn't know this?
>Tsun and Stuhn switch places. One guards to the corpse of the other
Not only is this not said ever, but Stuhn isn't even one of the Dead Gods.
>>44291151
>Stuhn and Tsun were shifting and it was still uncouth to prevent this kind of neighboring
>Tsun: Extinct Nordic god of trials against adversity. Died defending Shor from foreign gods.
>>44291385
>Stuhn and Tsun were shifting and it was still uncouth to prevent this kind of neighboring
Interesting. But this doesn't say anything about them defending each others corpses, or explain why Stendarr is still a very much alive deity.
>>44291647
All the Aedra are dead.
>>44293057
No, they are latent.
>>44293057
only lorkhan is dead and even then he manages to be the most active god
>>44293269
Dead, sleeping, comatose.
>>44293298
They all are.
>>44293523
>Dead, sleeping, comatose
I don't care about your semantics anon, all myths acknowledge that Lorkhan dies while the Aedra live on. As far as mortals are concerned, the Aedra are not dead, and that is all that matters.
Anyone looking to run/play a TES tabletop campaign? I've been reading the .pdfs and it seems really fun. Don't know if any lore bros would be game though.
>>44290512
Khajiit have racial memory that they can access through ingesting moon sugar. As infants they literally learn the history of their race while nursing due to all the moon sugar flowing through their mother's milk. It's why they are some of the more accurate sources of ancient lore.
>>44293714
Except that death and sleep are literally the same thing in TES. Morrowind spent pages and pages of in-game text explaining this.
>>44291647
>explain why Stendarr is still a very much alive deity.
Stendarr =/= Stuhn. He's the Alessian interpretation for sure, but it's naive to assume they're the same thing.
>>44294695
Are you talking about the UESRPG? I'm running two games of it at the moment. A fantastic system.
>>44296144
>Except that death and sleep are literally the same thing in TES.
And yet just about every creation myth clearly draws a line between Lorkhan and the Aedra's fate. If you are seriously saying that "sleeping = death" you mine aswell just say that the Ada have always been dead because Vivec states that their entire existence is probably like sleeping.
also
>Morrowind spent pages and pages of in-game text explaining this
Literally the only thing that comes to mind are brief mentionings in Vivec's dialogue. And even that can be viewed in a completely different light.
>Stendarr =/= Stuhn. He's the Alessian interpretation for sure, but it's naive to assume they're the same thing
They are all the same thing dude, sure there are deviations in interpretation and in some peoples minds things happen and play out differently, but at the end of the day, each myth follows the same unconscious patterns and milestones. That's why they call it the fucking MONOmyth. Stendarr isn't just going to die in one myth than live on in another, you don't just worship a god out of the grave.
I mean really, please explain to me why the Imperials would adopt the worship of a fucking dead god, dead gods which in Nordic religion "don't need temples."
>>44272789
>Imperials are so good at talking that it's magic
>Bretons are better elves than elves are
>Nords are as strong and tough as Orcs, also Vikings
>Redguards take everything cool about the Middle East and then stab elves with it
The only races cooler than the human ones in TES are the Khajiit and maybe, if we're ignoring the dindu nuffins, the Dunmer. Argonians, Bosmer, and Altmer are all terrible.
>>44297301
Khajiit>Redguard>Blades>Hist>Argonian>Rest
Topaz Emperor was here, CHIM a shit
>>44297404
Come Emperor best Emperor
>>44297072
>explain to me why the Imperials would adopt the worship of a fucking dead god
Stuhn didn't die, Tsun did and guards a bridge made from his own corpse in Sovngarde.
>>44294695
Are you offering to run one?
>>44291151
I don't know how to make it more clear but I'll try:
Nords are stupid
Religion changes
Oral tradition changes even faster
Different people believe in different things, doesn't mean it must be true
Symbology is not about WHAT is portrayed, it is about WHO is portraying it: Jesus is black to some protestants, Jesus is white to Mormons, doesn't mean real Jesus is a milkshake.
Honestly, you would make a fucking excellent Stormcloak with this devotion to the "one true way of the Nord" mentality.
>>44298946
Shots fired.
The fuck did I miss
>>44299711
nothing, why?
>>44298946
Anon. The gods in tes are set in stone, even the cultures are set in stone. Both literally and figuratively, well a tower and a stone to be precise.
>>44300901
>cultures set in stone
Umm Chimer? Bosmer vs. Khajiit? Nedic transition from spirits and gods of nature to Imperial religion?
>Gods are set in stone
Jyggalag/Sheogorath? Leaper King - Mehrunes Dagon? Mortal to immortal Tribunal gods?
>a tower and a stone
Walk-Brass was an additional tower. Heart of Lorkhan was destroyed. Crystal-Like-Law was a destroyed tower.
Not even the towers and stones are set in stone, let alone beliefs and practices. It's laughable to assume that people did not change over thousands and thousands of years, when it's obvious that they have dreams, motivations and ideas just like real life people.
>>44299711
The same style of arguing we always have with a little bit less stupid bullshit this time around.
>>44296766
>>44298814
Possibly? If we can get a few more players I might be able to toss something together on roll 20.
>>44298558
That's the point I was making
>>44298946
Anon, I don't think you quite understand what is going on in the TES universe.
Worship isn't just something completely spontaneous in TES, you're not going to see hipster Nords worshiping a flying spaghetti monster. In TES the gods are very real, they don't come from a book some people wrote 2,000 years ago that no one is sure of, or a milkshake that someone thinks would be funny, every god is developed from pre-existing, definitive, and concurrent concepts. They are created through the most primal urges of respective human biases molded from shattered traumatized egos of the Dawn Era and held together by the wishes and cries for comfort from the memories of an unconscious mortal agenda. They are not real because they want it to be real, they are real because they NEED it to be real
If a god dies and it's made clear that he is dead, no one is going to adopt its worship, because these patterns affect every myth in someway and every mortal knows this. It is all true, all of it. Why the fuck do you think nobody worships Lorkhan anymore? Because, "oh no those elves said he's dead"? No every mortal knows that worshiping Lorkhan is a useless gesture because they feel the void of his absence.
>Honestly, you would make a fucking excellent Stormcloak with this devotion to the "one true way of the Nord" mentality
Oh so you're just a fucking faggot then? OK.
>>44301615
>Why the fuck do you think nobody worships Lorkhan anymore?
I'm outside this whole discussion you two are having, but Lorkhan receives worship, both directly and indirectly.
>"oh no those elves said he's dead"? No every mortal knows that worshiping Lorkhan is a useless gesture because they feel the void of his absence
Talos, Shor, and Shezzar would like a word with you. Even Lorkhan himself has the tendency to get up and walk around Nirn every few centuries or so in some guise or another.
Gods in TES are malleable. This is why the Maruhkati Selective were able to fuck stuff up so bad. They literally believed so hard they broke Akatosh. Nothing in TES, least of all the Gods are things set in stone.
>>44301615
No need to throw around curses, we're all lorebuddies here.
>every god is developed from pre-existing, definitive, and concurrent concepts
How about Numidium? It is a god by every definition of the word. What pre-existing, definitive, concurrent concept does Dagoth Ur sit in? Or are you going to tell me that Dagoth Ur is no god, rather someone with immense magical power? If so, what does this make of the Tribunal? And for that matter, if this is how it goes, what will you say for Champion of Cyrodiil and Sheogorath? Is 4E Sheo a god or a very powerful non-god that received his/her power from someone else (like Dagoth Ur in this case)?
>They are created through [mortal agency] ... because they NEED it to be real
Perfectly valid argument. Now then, why are you so against the idea of SOME Nords having the need for a Fox Lorkhan and Snake Orkey? Why do you keep saying this can not be, when you admit that different people can literally give birth to different gods (which, to clarify, is not something I believe in)?
>If a god dies and it's made clear that he is dead, no one is going to adopt its worship...
This is a HUUUGE supposition. How in Oblivion do you find in yourself the right to make such a claim for every single soul that has ever passed through Tamriel in thousands of years!
Also, if no one worships a dead god, what's the deal with Nerevar and the Ashlanders? That looks like pretty decent worship to me, while KNOWING that Nerevar wasfoulmurdered.
>Why the fuck do you think nobody worships Lorkhan anymore?
Umm I never said that..? Sorry to cause confusion, what I said was PERHAPS the Nords who believed that Orkey was the destructive aspect of what has been brought by The Serpent (meaning death and antagonism). And I proposed this to suggest to you how come some stone totem might have come to exist, whereas your resort was searching for mistakes in Bethesda.
>cont
>cont
>>44301615
>>44301957
On the matter of worshipping Lorkhan: you do realize that Lorkhan is the elven name for that god right? Races of men worship Lorkhan most directly as Shor and Shezzar.
>No every mortal knows that worshiping Lorkhan is a useless gesture because they feel the void of his absence.
Again, you don't get to make such a generalization. Plus, people fucking worship Sithis man, he is LITERALLY NOTHING and they still worship him!
>faggot
>implying you wouldn't do it with two clones of Sotha Sil
>>44301957
The whole fox/snake thing isn't that hard to accept seen from an outside perspective, actually.
The trickster character is one of the most important mythological and folkloric archetypes, and in Tamriel, that's what Lorkhan is. When it comes to animal symbolism, we're mostly used to seeing tricksters represented as snakes, perhaps chiefly because of the influence of Judeo-Christian stories. Snakes and apples and all that jazz.
But a lot of cultures mainly associate the role of the trickster with other animals. I'm Scandinavian, and like a lot of other cultures, I honestly associate the role of the Trickster with the fox, and that's what you're going to see used in my local folklore.
But, and this is kind of important, the Snake and the Fox aren't equal. The Fox is a trickster, a rogue, but he's not necessarily evil, just mischievous. He might even be ultimately good-natured, in some stories. But the Snake is something else, something more sinister. The Snake is actually evil. So you can have two related concepts, but you can use both and they have different meanings.
>>44302330
In TES, Mer usually view Lorkhan as evil, but that's not the same for Men. The Khajiit have a interesting standpoint where Lorkhaj is a trickster, but he isn't necessarily evil, he's in fact influenced by Namiira. It doesn't seem to strange for me that Nords could associate both trickster gods (Lorkhan and Orkey) with certain animals, and choose the snake as the more appropriate representation of the negative trickster. Since they revere Lorkhan, it's reasonable for them to make a divide between him and a more antagonistic trickster god.
This isn't proof of anything, just a quick observation that leaped to mind, but I don't see anything strange in Orkey being the Snake.
Wow what a dead week end
>>44303083
Eh, just means the thread will go until Wednesday or maybe even Christmas and I'll have something to refresh on my phone rather than /pol/
>>44303153
this /pol/?
>>44303427
Yeah, it's a guilty pleasure that I just scroll the first page and see what's being brewed up in the witch's cauldron.
Might as well try to talk about something. We talk about races, gods and to some extent people a fair deal.
How about cities? Do you have a city you think sounds interesting, perhaps one that we haven't been shown? Anything interesting about it?
Personally, I've always wanted to see the major cities of mainland Morrowind, like Mournhold and Port Telvannis. But one that has always stood out as particularly interesting is Necrom. The whole concept of that place is just great.
As for other provinces, there's some interesting places. Daggerfall holds a special place in my heart, after I spent my first night in that huge city hiding on a roof because of spooky ghosts.
Rimmen is an ancient Khajiiti city in the hilly lands bordering Cyrondiil, and has significant Akaviri influences, who built much of it. It's mostly made out of ivory-coloured stone, and has large domes and canals, and even an old Akaviri shrine with over ten thousand statues. It even used to be its own kingdom pretty recently, as it declared independence after the Oblivion Crisis. Seems like a interesting place.
The inhabited, moving trees of Vardenfell would also be cool to see.
>>44303083
It really is uncommonly dead around here this time. I'm guessing people are just busy.
>>44303754
Isn't /pol/ essentially the same threads over and over? That's what my admittedly scarce impressions of the board left me with.
>>44304955
-cont-
>>44301944
>Even Lorkhan himself has the tendency to get up and walk around Nirn every few centuries or so in some guise or another
And this proves worship how?
>This is why the Maruhkati Selective were able to fuck stuff up so bad. They literally believed so hard they broke Akatosh
No, the Marukhati Selectives turned the universe into cosmic puddy and molded Akatosh the way they wanted him. The same exact thing Vivec did to legitimize his godhood.
>Nothing in TES, least of all the Gods are things set in stone
I never implied they were, what I did imply however was that even though gods vary between beliefs each one follows a general pattern that can be seen in every religion.
>>44301957
>How about Numidium? It is a god by every definition of the word
Oh come on, anon! You know exactly what I meant in my post! I'm talking specifically about the Ada that came from the Grey Maybe.
>Why do you keep saying this can not be, when you admit that different people can literally give birth to different gods
Because, as I said, these gods are developed from pre-existing concepts and Lorkhan is most forthright a fucking Snake, just as Akatosh is most forthright a fucking Dragon. I've repeated this multiple times now, but having Shor be the Fox would have been completely acceptable had they not had a snake totem in their pantheon.
>This is a HUUUGE supposition.
I'm speaking in a general sense of course, I'm sure you could say that at some point in history there has been a crazy nord who raved about how Tsun was still alive. But from the instinct of mortal faith, every religion follows a singular Monomyth.
>what's the deal with Nerevar and the Ashlanders?
Nerevar isn't even worshiped by the Ashlanders. The Cult of the Nerevarine is only even openly acknowledged by the Urshilaku, and even they were cynical about it.
>>44304975
-cont2-
>>44301957
>I never said that
The point was made to show that there are clear milestones and congruencies that each religion in some way has to acknowledge. If the mortal races were able to just straightup decide exactly what happened don't you think, I don't know, Trinimac would still be alive and well in Altmeri myth?
Also some other guy in this thread was trying to say the Aedra were dead when there are clear differences between their fate and that of Lorkhan's.
>whereas your resort was searching for mistakes in Bethesda
Anon, why the fuck should I be forced to reinterpret the lore in a matter that not only makes less sense than it originally was, but is also blatantly less interesting, merely because some guy at Bethesda for no reason whatsoever asserts Shor as the Fox. It's fucking BS and you know it.
>>44301989
>Races of men worship Lorkhan most directly as Shor and Shezzar
Well first of all, his name is spelt fucking "Shezarr" can people please get this right for once? Second of all I've already explained in my previous post that both Shor and Shezarr are not actually worshiped (edit: had to delete that post due to an error, I'll get it back up).
>Plus, people fucking worship Sithis man, he is LITERALLY NOTHING and they still worship him!
The only people I can think of who actually straight up worship Sithis as a god are the Dark Brotherhood and the like who actually worship Mephala.
>>44304955
>Most religions acknowledge him, yes, but next to none actually worship him.
There's very real Cults of Lorkhan, and they're mentioned in several places. They seem to be especially prevalent in Morrowind. A Lorkhan cult is mentioned in the Morrowind section of the first edition of the pocket guide. In the Third Era, Whiterun came under the control of a priestess of Lorkhan, effectively being the "Witch-Queen of Whiterun". Fal Droon, who authored two books about Lorkhan, mentions a significant spread of Lorkhan cults in the Third Era, especially in connection to Dragon Breaks. And that's only the most explicit worship, and only counting those who call him Lorkhan.
I can provide sources for everything I've stated.
I'm too tired to read all that.
>>44305267
I know of these mentionings and as I believe I said in my deleted post, these are fringe groups, they do not follow the racial ideologies. It is very likely they still view him as a dead god anyways, hell it can't even be said with certainty that they actually even worship him.
As you said, these cults are most associated with the Dunmer, who view Lorkhan almost entirely as a conduit for the Psijic Endeavor. It is likely these cults are only interested in the eschatology surrounding Lorkhan, hence their focus on Numidium and the Dragon Breaks.
>>44305142
To reiterate my deleted post
>>44301780
>but Lorkhan receives worship, both directly and indirectly
Both Shor and Shezarr have had their worship abandoned.
Sheor, Sep, Lorkhaj, and Lorkhan would not be worshiped for reasons that are obvious.
Talos just plain doesn't count and you know it.
>>44301944
>This is why the Maruhkati Selective were able to fuck stuff up so bad. They literally believed so hard they broke Akatosh
What the Selectives did was put the Aurbis into a state where they could mold it how they wanted. Vivec does the same thing during the Red Moment.
>>44304764
I don't really have cities I'd like to see other than Imperial City, but I'd love to see more about Blades' temples.
>>44305702
>they do not follow the racial ideologies
Which is irrelevant.
You claimed that Lorkhan being "dead" means he isn't worshipped, which just straight up isn't true. The fact that you disregard the mention of Lorkhanic worship in Whiterun, and so readily assume that the Dunmeri cults don't even actually worship him despite there being no mention of that, makes it seem like you're trying to dodge the situation.
>Sheor, Sep, Lorkhaj, and Lorkhan would not be worshiped for reasons that are obvious.
One of these is not like the others.
>>44306695
>Lorkhanic worship in Whiterun
What
>>44306695
>The fact that you disregard the mention of Lorkhanic worship in Whiterun,
Anon, let me quote myself here.
>I'm sure you could say that at some point in history there has been a crazy nord who raved about how Tsun was still alive. But from the instinct of mortal faith, every religion follows a singular Monomyth.
Now let me quote the excerpt from PGE3 you are referring to
>Jsashe, a self-proclaimed priestess of Lorkhan.
Hopefully you understand my point.
>and so readily assume that the Dunmeri cults don't even actually worship him despite there being no mention of that
What exactly do you think a Dunmer would actually have to gain from worshiping a dead god? Do you seriously think people would actually expect a blessing or message from Lorkhan? Pretty much every Dunmeri story of Lorkhan does nothing but note his importance in the Psijic Endeavor. The only information we are ever given of the Lorkhan cults is that they are obsessed with prophecy and eschatology. If you don't know what eschatology is, then I will just assure you that the Psijic Endeavor fits pretty fucking snug into that category. I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume they don't actually straightforward pray to Lorkhan.
>One of these is not like the others
They are all demonizations so I'm not sure what you are getting at.
>>44265008
fuck me i got a D in Chemi--uh i mean Alchemy
>that Kothringi arc.
May have cried desu.
What other doomed races do you wish you knew more about /tgesg/?
>>44309284
Interestingly enough, IRL people have worshipped dead gods who were still able to affect the world. Egyptian Osiris and a few Mexica Gods. Speaking of Mexica/Aztec gods, I've been noticing some very interesting things about them and TES but I think it's best for me to wait until this coming weekend, it's a lot of ideas and i should take more time to completely formulate them.
dumb lore-n00b question:
How do we know that the Redoran Scarab is a symbol for Lorkhan? Where is that stated?
>>44312298
I dont know, I've never heard that claim before, but I'll answer any other questions you have.
>>44312298
IIRC (and someone else please correct me if I'm wrong), the scarab has more to do with the Nu-man and Amaranth than Lorkhan explicitly.
The scarab is sometimes used as a symbol for Lorkhan (not the Redoran one, but just in general), and the scarab that transforms into the Nu-man becomes Amaranth. Only a Shezzarine can become Amaranth and only mortals can be Shezzarine; they are also an echo of Lorkhan's spirit.
>>44312298
In real world terms, the scarab represents Ra, the sun god. Anu his himself in the sun, and so achieved Amaranth.
>>44313193
hid*
![ESOwiki,%20Emporer%20Armor[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WNLOhBK.jpg "ESOwiki,%20Emporer%20Armor[1].jpg")
how were men created?
>>44313657
They subgradiated from the divine, just like Mer.
>>44313657
Ehlnofey split into two groups. wandering ehlnofey became man, old ehlnofey became mer.
>>44312298
I know what you are talking about, the picture normally thrown around something like this.
A lot of people say that the Dwemer and Dunmer symbolize Lorkhan as a scarab but now looking more into it, the only implication to this I can find is a vague mentioning in the 36 Lessons.
>We pledge ourselves to you, the Frame-maker, the Scarab: a world for us to love you in, a cloak of dirt to cherish. Betrayed by your ancestors when you were not even looking. Hoary Magnus and his ventured opinions cannot sway the understated, a trick worthy of the always satisfied
>>44270941
So we can prove our greatness to the elves and beasts?
![the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-concept-art-by-ray-lederer-mage[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uYMef7P.jpg "the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-concept-art-by-ray-lederer-mage[1].jpg")
>>44313825
>>44313904
werent early men fighting with lorkhan in his army when he died? are men decended from lorkhan at all?
>>44314349
that's it
Praise be to Al-Esh, the holiest of holies, Mother Cyrod!
>>44315197
Lorkhan was killed before Man as we know it came into existence. Everything was still et'Ada at that point. His death and the removal of his heart is the event that finalizes the creation of Mundus.
>>44309284
>What exactly do you think a Dunmer would actually have to gain from worshiping a dead god?
The same thing everyone else does? Lorkhan is dead, that doesn't mean he's powerless.
>>44314349
Boethiah obviously referencing Lorkhan and calling him the Scarab is pretty solid explanation to me>select all images with trains
come on captcha, what are you 8?
>>44309284
>What exactly do you think a Dunmer would actually have to gain from worshiping a dead god?
They foresaw the coming of Tiber Septim, which is as you say prophecy. But it is prophecy granted by the worship of Lorkhan. I don't see how you can assume that by being "dead", it is completely impossible for worshippers of Lorkhan to get anything from that worship. You're taking Lorkhan's "death" much too literally.
Even in "death", he affects Tamriel to a significant degree.
>They are all demonizations so I'm not sure what you are getting at.
"Demonization" isn't the word I'd use to describe Lorkhaj. The Khajiit have a view of him that differs from the standard Merish view.
>>44314349
There's also a Lorkhanic spirit in the Magne Ge Pantheon called Scarab-Framer.
>>44319926
>demonization
I agree. There's also the fact that these "demonizations" have the ability to appear separately from their "source". The entire cosmology of TES is based around things breaking into smaller and smaller pieces the further you go down the chain.
Alduin and Akatosh are the same being on certain levels and separate on others which is why they were opposed to each other during Skyrim.
There's no demonization, these are entities that exist both as a singular being and as individuals at the same time.
In the end everything except those lucky enough to achieve Amaranth are all part of the Godhead anyway.
>>44309928
It's a common mythological motif.
A different, and kind of strange, take on it is the Norse worship of Baldr, who we know held a central part in his faith, and is referred and invoked in text. Despite all this, he's dead. It's actually rather critical that he's death, as it's a omen of the coming apocalypse. These dead gods are in a sense all resurrection gods, which is a archetype as common as the trickster god.
>tfw you will never be the little cat
>>44320954
I'd be happy enough with them just having an appearance in the next game. I'm too cynical to get my hopes up over actually playing one.
>>44321012
Alfiq appeared in ESO for what it's worth.
>>44321012
>you will never have an alfiq bodyguard
>>44321092
Very little, sadly.
>>44321127
never forget
>>44321148
So which races/regions in Tamriel have the fiercest rivalries? Who hate each other the most?
I'm thinking Orsimer and Bretons/Redguards, or perhaps Dunmer and Argonians. Trying to come up with a character that's a traditionalist and hates some other race.
Also, is Scrollhammer good and playable?
>>44321425
None of the races really have rivalries. Lots of them hate each other but usually there's such a power imbalance/difference in goals that calling it a rivalry is a bit misleading (like the relationship between Dunmer and Argonians).
I like to imagine that there was stiff rivalry between the mages of Morrowind and the Summerset Isles before the red year. A rivalry that mostly took place in both parties imaginations since they had little contact with each other but a fierce one none the less.
>>44321425
Khajiit and Bosmer
>>44321652
probably
>>44321652
At least before ThalmOR takeover
>>44319926
>I don't see how you can assume that by being "dead", it is completely impossible for worshippers of Lorkhan to get anything from that worship. You're taking Lorkhan's "death" much too literally
So let me get this straight anon. Not only does Lorkhan's ghost remain in the Serpent, not only does he reincarnate every now and then, not only does his Heart remain in the world, not only are his remains the closest celestial body, but he is also perfectly capable of blessing and messaging with those who worship him? Wow it's almost like Lorkhan mine as well not even be considered dead, seeing as he apparently does more than all the other fucking Aedra combined.
Seriously, don't you think the "dead god" already does enough? If Lorkhan is actually able to do this what exactly about him is dead? Why would people even have stopped praying to him? Don't you think humans might have actually, I don't know, kept his worship if he was still perfectly capable of communing with someone who isn't a Ruling King who happens upon the secret heaven?
This is a load of shit, anon.
>Lorkhaj
>And the Heart of Lorkhaj was filled with the Great Darkness. And when he was born, the Great Darkness knew its name and it was Namiira
>And Lorkhaj said, "Lorkhaj makes a place for children and Lorkhaj puts you there so you can give birth." But the Heart of Lorkhaj was filled with the Great Darkness, and Lorkhaj tricked his siblings so that they were forced into this new place with Nirni.
>And many of Fadomai's children died to make Nirni's path stable. And the survivors stayed and punished Lorkhaj
>we curse you, noisy Lorkhaj, to walk Nirni for many phases.
Sounds like a demon to me.
>>44322656
Only demon here is TalOS.
>>44321652
This.
Argonians hate Dunmer over slavery, and the Orks are the Pariah folk, this is not like the antagonism between the Bosmer and the Khajiit.
The hate between Bosmer and Khajiit isn't political or social, they're fundamentally enemies. It lies in their mythology, and I don't think people get how deep this reaches.
Let me give a brief explanation, from a Khajiiti point of view.
So, in the beginning, there was a people called the forest people, and they were Nirni's most beloved. Unfortunately, they had no shape. But Nirni's sister, Azurah came to her and promised aid. You see, as she lay dying, Fadomai had armed Azurah with three secrets, and a mission to take Nirni's best children and make then the Khajiit. So Azurah took the best of the forest people, the best of Nirni's most beloved, and with the three secrets she bound them to the moons, she gave them many shapes, and she placed them in Nirni's best deserts and forests. You see, the Khajiit know hadship, as Elsweyr is not an easy place to live. But when the Khajiit were created, they lived in the best land. However, this is where Y'ffer comes into play.
Now, you may think that Y'ffer is just some boring forest got of Tolkien elfship or whatever the fuck he's doing. And sure, that's right. But primarily, he's a fucking cunt that can't appreciate secrets. See, he heard the first secret, and being a dick, he told Nirni. Now, this made Nirni jealous, and she made the deserts and the jungles harsh. Thanks, Y'ffre.
>>44323007
As a reward, Nirni let Y'ffer have the remainder of the forest people, but because he isn't as wise as Azurah, he cocked it up and now they're called the Bosmer. Y'ffer continued shouting the secret across the heavens, because he's a cunt like that.
So, now you have the Khajiit, right? They used to be the same people as the Bosmer, but Azurah took the best and made them into an awesome people of secret defenders. Then Y'ffer ruined everything, took the rest of the Khajiit's brethren, and ruined them too. But the Bosmer are too dense to see that they're basing their faith around the cuntiest Earthbone.
It doesn't stop there though. Since then, the Khajiit and the Bosmer have pretty much constantly been antagonistic. Why, shouldn't they? After all, it's in the Khajiit's faith that the Bosmer are a bunch of dicks. When the two races go to war, and I'm talking proper war not border skirmishes, they're very brutal. Cities are sacked and burned, Wild Hunts are used, and so on. Check out The Five Year War. But it's not only war, it's really a part of their societies. The Bosmer do for example attack Khajiiti loggers, while the Khajiit attack Bosmeri wood caravans. The Bosmeri need to import wood, but they seem unwilling to by it from the Khajiit, despite that being the most practical.
As a sidenote, ESO has texts showing the Bosmeri side of things, detailing things like the usage of Khajiiti sinew for bowstrings.
>>44322656
>Sounds like a demon
That's just plain wrong.
What is the Lunar Lattice and what does it do exactly? Or approximately? Or generally?
>>44322656
>Seriously, don't you think the "dead god" already does enough?
So your argument here is basically that Lorkhan is dead because you think he does enough already? Comparing him to the other Aedra is kind of a pointless unfavoured here, he's not like them. He's responsible for the creation of the Mundus, his body orbits Tamriel, his heart is buried in it, and he's cursed to walk the land. Why do you expect his actions or his role to be comparable to any other?
This is a fine opinion, Anon, but it is just that. An opinion. Lorkhan's continued presence and importance is however a fact.
>Sounds like a demon to me.
Sounds like you've just skimmed the Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi, because you're really missing the point here. The ones that curse and punish Lorhaj are Fadomai's children, and his actions made evil by the Great Darkness. Lorkhaj himself is not, he's merely the trickster. Nirni even forgives him.
The Khajiit do not view subgradience the same way the Altmer does, that's kind of essential for their worldview. Subgradience is about sharing Love for the Khajiit. If you want a more Lorkhaj-critical text, then there's some of that in The Tale of Dro'Zira, but he's not nearly the same beast for the Khajiit that he is for the Altmer, and a demon he is absolutely not.
>>44323222
The Lunar Lettuce is Lorkhan's body. See, removing the heart from a god is kind of like removing brain from a person. It leaved the body like a vegetable. Occasionally Lorkhan's dandruff falls to Tamriel, where cats eat it.
>>44322656
You're very much misconstruing the situation. Lorkhan orchestrated a specific set of events that would enable him to affect the world he created. He intended for exactly what happened to happen. Heart and all.
The Aedra are dead. They are the world. They are the gift limbs. What do you think the other planets are?
>>44323333
>"Ja-Kha'jay, to you Fadomai gives the Lattice, for what is steadier than the phases of the moons? Your eternal motions will protect us from Ahnurr's anger." And the moons left to take their place in the heavens. And Ahnurr growled and shook the Great Darkness, but he could not cross the Lattice.
>>44323565
>Ahnurr's anger
What is that?
>>44323299
>So your argument here is basically that Lorkhan is dead because you think he does enough already?
No my argument is that Lorkhan is just dead because he's dead.
You are blatantly avoiding the point. It makes no sense for the god specifically stated to be dead to not appear dead in anyway whatsoever. What was that great sacrifice Lorkhan made again? It appears he is perfectly
Practically every creation myth states that, after his death, all Lorkhan can do is swim around the Sky as the Serpent or reincarnate every now and then.
The 36 Lessons makes it crystal clear that the only way to straight up speak with Lorkhan is to visit him in the Serpent constellation. No messages get to him. He sits there in his own private hell waiting for the day someone he can help will visit him BECAUSE THAT IS HIS FUCKING DOOM.
Now please give me some evidence of Lorkhan
>Why do you expect his actions or his role to be comparable to any other
Because mortals compare him to others. Mostly in that he is specifically dead and the Aedra are not. A large number of mortals actually consider Lorkhan an Aedra.
>This is a fine opinion, Anon, but it is just that. An opinion
Alright anon, when you find proof that Lorkhan actively communes and blesses worshipers you can share your 'not-opinion' with me.
>>44323979
-cont-
>>44323299
>Sounds like you've just skimmed the Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi
Well I can assure you I've read it... Multiple times I should say.
and his actions made evil by the Great
>his actions made evil by the Great Darkness. Lorkhaj himself is not, he's merely the trickster
I find it honestly hilarious that you are accusing me of misconstrued opinions when you yourself are making this backwards ass assumption.
It is clearly stated in the book that giving Nirni children was Lorkhaj's idea and that he purposefully tricked her. The mentioning of the Heart's Great Darkness is in reference to his own evil undertones, and Nirni's forgiveness is to make her look good, not Lorkhaj.
Beyond this:
It is stated here http://www.imperial-library.info/content/litter-mates-darkness
That evil Khajiit are doomed to serve Lorkhaj after death
and then this source straight up states that the Khajiit hate Lorkhaj
> Lorkhaj the Missing God is reviled, as he trapped them in mortal form; his image is spat upon, not revered
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/elsweyr
>>44323433
>Lorkhan orchestrated a specific set of events that would enable him to affect the world he created
>The Aedra are dead. They are the world. They are the gift limbs
The fate of Lorkhan is clearly distinct from that of the AEdra
And funny how Vivec specifically calls them gifted limbs rather than, perhaps, an ultimate sacrifice.
>What do you think the other planets are?
I think they are the Aedra's Testament. A way they prove they are still there.
Now you explain to me why the moons are the only celestial body that are visibly rotting.
>>44321425
>>44321617
Redguards hate Bretons since Bretons won the war.
Nords hate Dunmer and vice versa.
>>44323979
>Alright anon, when you find proof that Lorkhan actively communes and blesses worshipers you can share your 'not-opinion' with me.
Talos literally appears in disguise to the player in both Morrowind and Knights of the Nine and offers them assistance with their quests.
>>44324001
>Finally, the magical beings of Mythic Aurbis told the ultimate story -- that of their own death. For some this was an artistic transfiguration into the concrete, non-magical substance of the world. For others, this was a war in which all were slain, their bodies becoming the substance of the world. For yet others, this was a romantic marriage and parenthood, with the parent spirits naturally having to die and give way to the succeeding mortal races.
This is from the Monomyth. The Divines are Dead, the entities that they once were have been consumed by Mundus and used as fuel for its birth. Their essences however remain and exist as the myriad depictions that are strewn about the myths and legends of the mortal races.
Is creatia magicka/magicka creatia?
Or is it filtered in some way upon passing through the stars?
>>44324532
The stars aren't things, they're holes. The absence of things.
>>44324532
I believe it's straight Magicka that flows from Aetherius.
How plausible would it for an Argonian to produce offspring with a non-Argonian?
>>44325173
Not plausible.
>>44325173
I can't really think of any reason they couldn't other than hist involvement. Also, Argonian != Saxheel, but I know what you meant.
>>44325173
dragons can reproduce with anything and they're both lizards so
>>44324235
Talos is Talos anon, not Lorkhan. Mantling does not make you into the mantled. Yes, Talos was indeed an avatar of Lorkhan, and yes he did take Lorkhans place, but he is still a separate entity. Talos is a completely new god, unique to the cycle. He is, in a sense, Lorkhan reborn.
>>44324309
Yah, that might make sense when you take it out of the correct context.
That excerpt is referring to those divine spirits that literally became the world and the Ehlnofey.
>>44325264
Saxhleel*
>>44325173
I would imagine that, as a fantasy world, I could create cute argonian babies with my argonian waifu if I were a dunmer.
>>44325333
they arent? Elaborate please
>>44325173
>>44325290
Racial Phylogeny (or however it's spelled.) says no.
>>44324563
Yes?
Did you have a point?
>>44325375
Saxhleel are the lizards that Hist make Saxhleel!Argonian from.
A Nord can be Argonian if it exhibits enough Argonian traits as decided by Hist
>>44325375
>they arent? Elaborate please
It was my understanding that any race that licked the hist sap and accepted the hist could be "argonian". The native lizard-people of Blackmarsh call themselves Saxhleel. Not all Saxhleel are argonian either. I forget where I read it, but I recall hearing that there are some tribes in black marsh that do not lick the hist sap and don't serve the hist.
>>44325326
>That excerpt is referring to those divine spirits that literally became the world and the Ehlnofey.
That includes the Eight. The only difference between them and the lesser spirits is that they were "large" enough that their essence continued to exist in Mundus as a separate consciousness rather than being fully consumed like the others.
> Talos is a completely new god, unique to the cycle. He is, in a sense, Lorkhan reborn.
But he is also Lorkhan. Mantling results in you and whatever you mantled becoming indistinguishable from each other. You can't separate the two that easily. Look at what happened to the CoC after mantling Sheogorath.
Hell if you want to bring c0da into consideration Talos winds up turning into Lorkhan at the end.
>>44325552
different anon here.
I dont like to think that Talos is Lorkhan reborn. I think he did indeed MANTLE him, but he is not Lorkhan reborn. I like to think of them as completely seperate beings where the only relation they have is Wulfharth being a shezzarine, and that would be the only connection.
Feel free to change my mind, I like learning new things
>>44325552
>That includes the Eight. The only difference between them and the lesser spirits is that they were "large" enough that their essence continued to exist in Mundus as a separate consciousness rather than being fully consumed like the others
This seems very speculative. There are other much more apparent sources that explicitly imply that the Eight still live on.
>But he is also Lorkhan. Mantling results in you and whatever you mantled becoming indistinguishable from each other. You can't separate the two that easily
But they are still separate beings. While dead Lorkhan wallows in the Serpent, Talos is still very much alive and present.
>>44325814
Vivec disagrees, he explains here that being a God is far easier when you're dead than it is being alive. He also notes that he's different from the other Gods since he can come back to life "awaken" while they cannot.
>"It is like being a juggler. Things are always moving, and you learn to know where they are without even thinking about it. Only there are many, many things moving. And sometimes, like any juggler, you drop something. I'm afraid it has become a lot more a matter of dropping things lately. There's too much to do, and not enough time, and I'm losing my touch. Perhaps I'm growing old. It is a bit like being at once awake and asleep. Awake, I am here with you, thinking and talking. Asleep, I am very, very busy. Perhaps for other gods, the completely immortal ones, it is only like that being asleep. Out of time. Me, I exist at once inside of time and outside of it. It's nice never being dead, too. When I die in the world of time, then I'm completely asleep. I'm very much aware that all I have to do is choose to wake. And I'm alive again. Many times I have very deliberately tried to wait patiently, a very long, long time before choosing to wake up. And no matter how long it feels like I wait, it always appears, when I wake up, that no time has passed at all. That is the god place. The place out of time, where everything is always happening, all at once."
>>44326212
Vivec is quite blatantly referring to how he is still physically preset in the form of a mortal. A feeling that either alive or dead, no Ada can really experience.
It has nothing to do with the Ada being dead.
>>44323979
If Lorkhan is dead, as in that he can't do anything, why does Sovngarde and everything about that still work?
>>44327412
Shor is not Lorkhan specifically, he is a Nordic interpretation. Regardless Shor is also quite dead and is literally a ghost stuck in the afterlife.
>>44327542
But those who believe in Shor's afterlife still have a possibility of coming there, right? Doesn't that prove Lorkhan's continued involvement?
>>44327651
Death is not the cessation of the self, for gods or mortals.
>>44323979
>It makes no sense for the god specifically stated to be dead to not appear dead in anyway whatsoever
This is a faulty assumption. This would be a valid claim if he was in any way comparable to the other Aedra, but he's not. You're acting like Lorkhan's "death" should make him unable to interact with the realm he before all is attuned to, or obey whatever standards you think death implies.
>The 36 Lessons makes it crystal clear
I'd like a source on that.
>Because mortals compare him to others.
Which is irrelevant. Mortals also think Boethiah ate Trinimac, but the word "ate" doesn't really cover what actually happened, just like the word "death" doesn't properly convey Lorkhan's state, or the word "dream" doesn't really convey the nature of The Dream. You're taking the meaning of Lorkhan's death much too literally.
>>44324001
>Now you explain to me why the moons are the only celestial body that are visibly rotting.
They're being torn apart by Aka-who-is-Lorkhan's worms. It has to do with the relationship between the Space God and the insane Time God, not Lorkhan's punishment.
>>44325326
Talos, as of C0DA, is literally Lorkhan.
>Jubal looks over at Talos, who has become Lorkhan
>>44328112
>c0da
>>44329185
What's wrong with that?
>>44330714
You just bit, Anon.
>>44330728
C0da can still be used in discussion, it's one interpretation of the Lore even if its not entirely official.
Do Redguard teach Shehai Shen She Ru to other races?
>>44331409
Yeah, if any race can Thuum, I would imagine that anybody could learn to sword sing. Probably not as well as Redguards could without special talent.
Also I like these new captchas.
>>44331603
New captcha?
Eh, I have the legacy on, hated all the cakes and streetsigns.
>>44331674
Cartoon Christmas gifts.
Would magic shield be Vvarden Magicka, or is that backwards. Talking about ehlnofey btw.
>>44327976
>You're acting like Lorkhan's "death" should make him unable to interact with the realm he before all is attuned to
Lorkhan isn't attuned to the world, his Heart is. Lorkhan is attuned to a fucking serpent in the sky.
>I'd like a source on that.
>not knowing your lessons
Read Sermon 33
Also read On the Void Ghost here:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/michael-kirkbride-irc-qa-sessions
>Which is irrelevant
>mortals said it
>so it must be wrong
k anon, your word is obviously more important than actual sources.
>Mortals also think Boethiah ate Trinimac but the word "ate" doesn't really cover what actually happened
Or, you know, it could be said that there are plenty of mortals that do recognize metaphor within their own mythology.
>just like the word "death" doesn't properly convey Lorkhan's state
Yes, of course it doesn't, but in order for an analogy to actually make sense, the compared state actually has to parallel with the corresponding word.
In other words, the god stated to be "dead" should not be as active as those that are alive.
>>44328112
>They're being torn apart by Aka-who-is-Lorkhan's worms. It has to do with the relationship between the Space God and the insane Time God, not Lorkhan's punishmen
This sounds incredibly unsubstantiated.
>Talos, as of C0DA, is literally Lorkhan
Yah, and I'm sure weird things like that can happen when the universe is on its final breaths. It likely has something to do with Talos being, firstly, literally Lorkhan incarnate. But mantling does not mean becoming. Did Vivec become Mephala?
>>44332120
>the god stated to be "dead" should not be as active as those that are alive.
That's not exactly right. If we're just comparing death to life, let's compare the aedra and the daedra, since they're the same thing but the aedra are dead. Based on this, it's pretty clear that a dead god is able to effect the world substantially, just not as dramatically, and they lack corporeal manifestation.
>>44332059
I don't think "magicka" is an Ehlnophex word. Funnily enough, it could be CHIM, meaning starlight rather than royalty.
>>44332229
>since they're the same thing but the aedra are dead
But they aren't dead anon.
>>44332120
Lorkhan is attuned to the world, in more ways than the Aedra. That's why Mankar calls Nirn Lorkhan's plane(t). He gave himself in the physical, leaving his body as the moons. He gave himself in the spirit, leaving his ghost (the Shezarrines, and, arguably the void serpent). This was a more complete sacrifice.
Lorkhan, in his death, is more active than the gift limbs in their coma. That's the point.
>>44332278
Dead is a metaphor. They gave themselves to make Nirn. That's why they felt, in some stories, tricked. That's why they don't do things like the Daedra.
>>44332339
>He gave himself in the physical, leaving his body as the moons. He gave himself in the spirit, leaving his ghost (the Shezarrines, and, arguably the void serpent)
Literally none of those things have any real connection to Nirn itself. The moons are there because that's where Lorkhan died, the Serpent is just a constellation, and all the Shezarrines do is walk Nirn (likely due to the presence of Lorkhan's Heart).
The only real connection Lorkhan has to Nirn is his heart and that's because the Aedra couldn't destroy it. Even Mankar knows this.
>Lorkhan, in his death, is more active than the gift limbs in their coma
Well geeze maybe the Aedra should just hurry up and fucking kill themselves already.
>>44332392
So let me get your standings straight
>Lorkhan is specifically stated to be dead multiple times.
>But he's not dead because "dead" is apparently a completely useless metaphor.
>The Aedra are clearly made out to be alive in multiple sources and their fate is made distinct from that of Lorkhan's
>But they are actually dead because muh metaphors
Completely reasonable.
>>44332666
>real connection to Nirn itself
His heart being torn out and shot during Convention from Adamantia, the first tower, and forming Red Mountain, the second, was the act that solidified Nirn as a plane(t). That's the I of Nirn. Adamantia to Red Mountain. I. That's the final step.
His reincarnation as several mortals was intentional. The other Aedra don't do that.
Yep, Lorkhan died to stay alive and the Aedra slept to death, but it's all just metaphor.
>>44332666
No need act like a child, Satan.
Why wouldn't somebody be a mage? It seems easy to join a guild, become an apprentice, and learn.
>>44332971
Most people wouldn't have the opportunity. They don't accept everyone, there are guild fees. and not everyone is good at magic.
I like the new captcha too.
>>44332971
Don't care/want to/have the finances/other means to do it/religion/societal preferences
>>44333128
>societal preferences
/biases
>>44333040
>Not being up to you eyeballs in crippling student debt for skills you aren't good at.
Fuck, when did video games become so realistic?
>Looking at the wheel on its side looks like a Tower, or an 'I'
>The idea here being that god and the universe is part of oneself
But that metaphor only works that way in English
Is Tamrielic meant to just be a copy of English?
>>44333244
My world is coming apart at the seams.
>>44333244
Or the metaphor translates well. Or:
>Tamrielic is exactly identical to English
>Tamrielic uses I as the same concept.
>The letter I from ancient times was built around they idea of the tower.
Or most likely:>If you wonder how they eat and breathe, and other science facts.
>Lalala
>Repeat to yourself that it's just a game, and you should really just relax.
>>44333407Mysticism Tamriel Theatre 3000
>>44333506
Truly the comfiest show to ever exist, tied with that one show about painting.
>>44332758
>His heart
Yes, his Heart is connected to Nirn. I said that.
>His reincarnation as several mortals was intentional.
Nothing says this. It's apparently part of his doom so I imagine it's not something he chooses to do.
>The other Aedra don't do that
The other Aedra weren't forced to walk the world.
>>44333407
>>44333506
>>44334559
What's your favorite type of Akaviri Theater?
>>44334588
Read between the lines. Lorkhan intended every single thing that happened.
>>44334588
>not something he chooses to do
Lorkhan is TES's Tactical Genius. His "doom" was planned.
>>44334894
>>44334754
He out businessed the Aedra during convention.
>>44334590
Anything by Toei.
Honourabruu mentions to Invaders from Space:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSNenmvNmZU
>>44334590
I actually prefer Noh theater.
>>44335104
Then why did you answer?
>>44332245
Pretty sure magicka is ehlnofey, it might be alyied tho. Pretty sure the phrase "Av molag anyammis, av latta magicka" means from fire life, from light magic and thats ehlnofey.
>>44336627
It's an Ayleid text using Dwemer symbols. Both languages are derived from Ehlnophex, but we don't know if that works backwards too.
>>44332971
Most people lack the talent necessary to cast spells. And you've also got races like the Nords who don't like to use it even when they do have the talent for it.
>>44336795
Oh i see the magika in that's closer to ayleid and the vvarden closer to dwemer. How much mer language is their, i mean is thier enough to speak any of the languages.
>>44337172
>Most people lack the talent necessary to cast spells
>Attack street hobo.
>Casts Weakness to Fire; summons a Flame Atronach.
>...the Nords who don't like to use it even when they do have the talent for it.
>Bar fight with Nord barbarian.
>Absorb Health spell better than the one vampires use.
>>44332971
Why wouldn't somebody be a doctor? It seems easy to apply to medical school, obtain a residency, and learn.
Compare the price of a loaf of bread, or a pair of shoes to the price of one or two very basic spells, or training up from skill 5 to skill 15. It's expensive, time consuming, and really not worth it unless you have a high Int and the right birthsign.
Everybody but the stupidest barbarian or sword monkey knows a simple spell or two. But becoming a professional wizard is a major life commitment.
>>44337543
I don't think I've ever seen that happen, ever...
Well not outside of an overhaul mod at least
>>44337651
>Why wouldn't somebody be a doctor?
because its a shit job with terrible hours and the privilege of prescribing cholesterol medicine to fat ass all day
its more like asking why someone would go to school to be a super hero. basically everyone would if they could
>>44338268
That's only if you decide to be a GP. There's plenty of other shit you can do. You're still gonna have to deal with disgusting lardasses though who don't understand that losing 300 lbs would solve way more health issues then anything you can do.
>>44338268
More like an engineer. You could make robots and fly to the moon!
>>44339888
Did Dwemer ever go to the moooooooooooon?
