So it's a more retarded Snapcaster in red?
>No flash
No, but it's pretty decent.
>>44240908
>No Flash
>5 CMC
>Targets 3 or less CMC
Doesn't even come close
>>44240908
>Enters the Battlefield effect
Hm, might fit in (Goblins has a way to cheat in fattie goblins with Lackey if I remember right), he just has to compete with Goblin deck's other 5 cmc finisher, Siege-Gang Commander. I don't think it stacks up favorably against that, as Siege-Gang lets you burn down your whole team for lethal whereas this is probably going to grab... what, a lightning bolt?
>>44240908
this and snap caster
magus of the wheel and jace's archivist
what the fuck is wrong with red having nice things?
>>44241050
>>5 CMC
>>Targets 3 or less CMC
Yes, but, unlike Snapcaster, you get to cast the card for free.
That doesn't necessarily save it, of course, but Snapcaster to flashback a Cancel ends up costing a total CMC of 5 as well. This lets you Bust off of Boom//Bust for a total CMC of 5, which would cost 8 with Snapcaster.
it just feels like win more
but I'll wait until people who aren't bad at magic have to chance to try it
>>44241239
I think you're trying to make the best of the situation.
Without Flash or cheating it in, you're casting it sorcery-speed. If you can cheat it in somehow, then you're committing yet another card to it.
Snapcaster is retarded because no matter which way you cut the cake, it has the value of at LEAST 2.5 cards. Sure, you have to pay for the extra Mana, but the combined cost tends to come out low enough to be affordable early, and once you stabilized, the extra 1U to flashback a spell is an amazing deal.
The use I could see for this card is this some tempo play for red goblin tempo? I don't know what's cool with you kids nowadays.
>>44241327
I did say it didn't necessarily save it, but it really should be noted that subtracting the maximum CMC you can target from the goblins' CMC gets you the same CMC as Tiago. It's hardly irrelevant to a comparison of the two, though Snappy definitely comes out on top in the majority of cases.
That said, you get an additional two power and three toughness, as well as an evasion ability, in exchange for flash. It's definitely a more aggressive card. The Dank-Dwellers also get more value out of flickering, if that ends up being relevant.
Again, Snapcaster Mage is almost certainly more powerful, but I think people are focusing too much on the fact that it isn't literally a colorshifted version of the same card and ignoring what the differences actually mean.
>>44241435
Yeah, I agree with you. I don't think it's "Snapcaster in Red" is all.
>>44241239
>This lets you Bust off of Boom//Bust for a total CMC of 5, which would cost 8 with Snapcaster.
Mono-red Erhnamgeddon in Modern? That's hilarious.
its like inferno titan and snapcaster had a rough baby. Could be more or less flexible depending what you want to do. This guy is one good sac outlet from being good.
>>44240908
Shit, that's one great curve topper / finisher.
>>44240908
>Not XRR
>Not converted mana cost X or less
>Nothing to replace Flash like say flashback
Looks pretty okay, better than the last buy-a-box promo.
Why is this a golbin tho? I really doesn't feel like a goblin in any way.
>>44242412
ravnican goblins do magic, but desu this is more like a charmbreaker devil thematically. Maybe they just used goblin for imps?
>>44242425
They're clearly a new breed of goblin
Seeing as they DONT HAVE EYEEEEEEEEEES
>>44242453
Did innistrad have goblins before?
>>44242458
No.
But these are zendikari so I fail to see how this factors in at all
>>44242469
If yes it might have just been for tribal reasons, I guess they are just eldrazi drones who were originally goblins.
WHY DO WE NOT GET BUY A BOX PROMOS IN AUSTRALIA
>>44242498
They're fucking dark-dwellers. They don't need eyes.
>>44242512
Because everyone in the world hates us?
>>44242557
>>44242512
You're the spawn of irredemable convicts, why would anyone be inclined to trust/like your kind
>>44242529
Every freaky non-ally thing is an eldrazi controlled mutant untill otherwise stated.
>>44242601
Because many were sent there by the English for the crime of stealing half a loaf of bread?
Isn't hating those guys like America's second favorite passtime?
This pleases me, mostly because I'm disgusted by the four and five color decks that are ruling standard right now.
Also a hilarious draft card
>>44240908
>3 mana
Sounds nice to be able to recast an Exquisite Firecraft.
>>44240908
I like it and the cost is reasonable for the body and what it does. It does seem too expensive, CMC wise, for anything but Standard play, though. It has many upsides compared to snapcaster, but 5 mana isnsimply too much for any current modern deck, except maybe Jund.
>>44241169
legacy goblins don't even play lightning bolts.
Skred anon is fapping right now.
Really, this will maybe get played in standard, but probably not in modern. But this fits perfectly into skred.
>>44240908
>No flash
Yeah, totally a better version of Snapcaster
>>44241327
>tempo play
>5 cmc
I get there's cards in tempo decks that may be this expensive but the card itself isn't a tempo. Turn 5 you're getting what? Hordeling Outburst? This after you've been casting nothing but shitty goblin spells up to this point? Seems a little weak for a T5 bomb imo.
>>44240908
>"As of this Friday, we're banning Goblin Dark-Dwellers in Standard play. The reason for this is that a 5 mana 4/4 that also has another card stapled on is just too much value too fast for our turn 8 format." - Mark Rosewater
This wouldn't surprise me at this point.
>>44243688
You don't like our stupid, slow, fetch, and never win standard?
>>44243703
I stopped liking it when a competitive deck started averaging around $700.
>>44243712
Yeah I'm not in this standard.
I'm just drafting, but I'm fine with where that is.
>>44243740
You like BFZ draft? Jesus christ, next you are going to tell me you liked ORI drafting. Unbalanced boring formats.
>>44243833
Do you actually like any format of magic at the moment?
>>44240908
Seems like a fun card to put into play with Lackey.
>>44243851
I am not that dude, just surpised somebody has this low a bar for drafting. I am liking modern, legacy and Vintage cube 2016 drafting right now.
Is it just me or is the concept of red aggro dead in standard?
I haven't seen a single efficiently costed red card since Theros.
>>44243977
That's because after extensive research, we've found that Red breaks the color pie, and is slowly being phased out.
>>44243977
>I haven't seen a single efficiently costed red card since Theros.
Goblin Piledriver is efficiently costed. It just lost its support cards before it could make a splash.
>>44244027
Speaking of which, why the fuck is Onslaught printing of Piledriver 11 dollars while Origins printing is 2? Do people really value the blocky old border that much?
>>44244045
It makes my legacy goblins deck more uniform. It's like having a white border playset in a sea of black borders.
>>44242794
You're kidding, right? Americans have a huge boner for Britain. They just want to be the ones wearing the pants in the relationship.
>>44243977
>what is swiftspear
>>44242512
WE DO, IF YOUR STORE DOESN'T GIVE THEM TO YOU IT'S A SHIT STORE
>>44241169
Goblin Grenade, I guess?
>>44243977
>swiftspear
>atarka's command
>kolaghan's command
>titan's strength (granted a reprint from Theros but still printed in Origins)
>Exquisite Firecraft
>Thunderbreak Regent
>>44244045
>Do people really value the blocky old border that much?
The old borders do look much better, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
>>44240908
Not a bad curve topper actually. Get a 4/4 that you need two creatures to block with, and you can kill one as soon as this comes in with the free spell you get, or just burn the face.
I think you guys are judging this a bit too harshly, it has a 4/4 body and has menace and can flash back a bolt or something better.
>>44243977
I'll take autism for 50 points
>>44244369
I can respect this
The card is fine. It's card advantage if you have spells in your yard and the body is relevant.
Will this card see play? I'm not sure. It works well with removal spells and burn. Unfortunately, at the moment we lack significant burn other than Firecraft. Flashing back a Crackling Doom is pretty exciting. Maybe with Hordeling Outburst, but I don't see an aggressive red deck wanting any five drops.
Anyone saying this is modern playable is CRAZY.
>>44240908
if this was 4 cmc everyone would just be creaming
>>44244451
Obviously not modern playable when Snappy exists, but you just mentioned three reasons why its worth running in Standard.
>Deal 4 Damage and get a 4/4 for 5CMC
>Deal 2 Damage, Sac a creature, and get a 4/4 that needs two creatures to be blocked for 5CMC
>Get an instant board back along with a 4/4 (7 power) for 5CMC
I expect it to go for $10 minimum at launch and then either rising or falling depending on its use, but no less than $3.
>>44244486
At 4 mana it would be broken.
>>44244512
More things that can be casted for free:
>Khan Charms
>Atarka, Kolaghan , and Dromoka commands (with a creature to target)
>Removal (Complete Disregard, Ruinous Path)
>Feed the Clan with Ferocious
>Red Burns (Arc Lightning, Fiery Impulse, etc)
>Cards that haven't been spoiled yet
This is a pretty fucking great creature.
>>44244486
at 4 cmc the body wouldnt be worth a shit
>>44244412
ITT : It's a cmc 5 flashback cmc 3 spell from the yard. 4/4? what 4/4? there's no 4/4 menace in there.
>>44244513
>broken
>>44244614
>not worth a shit
make up your mind anon
>>44240908
so how do you use this to counter spells
>>44244486
>>44244512
>>44244513
>>44244579
>>44244668
>>44244707
It's 4chan, do you expect any of this analysis to make sense?
![191277_1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/LLAOu0K.jpg "191277_1[1].jpg")
>>44244727
>>44244746
somewhere in the noise there are signals
>>44244707
I was saying they wouldnt be able to print a 4/4 body with those abilities for 4cmc.
>>44240908
>let's take Snapcaster
>give it a more restrictive effect
>more than double the cost
>then slap on a bigger body because MUH MIDRANGE
I hate this new Magic.
>>44244727
You use it to cast sorceries, hes sorc caster goblin, not snapcaster. Hell the only reason they included instant is probably for player flexibility.
>>44244512
The problem is that you have to cast those cards first. How likely is that?
>>44244882
Yes, thats the point of flashback in magic, you get to use the spell again. Usually when you have 5 mana to cast this goblin you have had at least two turns between getting to the 3 mana to cast the instant or sorcery to flashback.
>>44244882
Have you played Magic: The Gathering before?
>>44244840
Wow, your insight is just astounding. I can't believe they don't fire Mark Rosewater on the spot and get the NSA to find you so they can offer you his job.
>>44244969
The problem is, he probably has and he's probably a new player.
Magic Duels tells you the average deck should have 24 lands and no fewer than 20 creatures.
>>44240908
This should read
>Goblin Dark-Dwellers
>XRR
>Creature - Goblin
>Menace
>Flashback - XRR
When ~ enters the battlefield you may cast target instant or sorcery card with converted mana cost X or less from your graveyard. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn exile it instead.
>2/2
>>44244969
So you're saying that every single game, you'll be able to cast a spell that actually does something and then cast this guy?
It just seems like a lot of stuff to line up. I'd rather play creatures that always affect the board when they're played or give me more flexibility.
>>44244748
UG is your answer to everything!
>>44245052
Nope, Nu uh.
When i play mono red i'll wait for t5 and cast that goblin before casting anything else.
>>44245046
>creature
>with flashback
You fucking what?
>>44245093
That post really screamed 'i never heard of Unearth before'.
>>44245093
Sounds like a Time Spiral thing.
>>44245093
There is nothing to stop it.
>Cast flashback
>Goes on the stack
>Resolves leaving the creature on the field
>Exile goes on the stack
>ETB goes on the stack
>EBT resolves letting you cast another card
>Card goes on the stack
>Resolves going into exile instead of the graveyard
>Exile resolves exiling the creature
It would just be pointless to put it on a creature with no ETB effect.
>>44245119
>play creature with flashback
>it resolves
>then is immediately exiled as it hits play
I think that might be a little too out there, even for Time Spiral.
>>44245081
No, when you're playing red you want to be aggressive. That means using good value cheap creatures, not a 5 mana creature.
>>44245148
>Exile goes on the stack
Nope. It's a replacement effect. Doesn't use the stack.
>>44245168
>(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
It is not. It is it's own clause. If it was a replacement it would read like Goblin Dark-Dwellers.
>>44245148
It's called Unearth, fucking nub.
>>44245052
>So you're saying that every single game, you'll be able to cast a spell that actually does something and then cast this guy?
That's the general idea. Are you saying that this particular card isn't good? Or are you saying that the concept of casting a spell and then casting a creature that let's you recast that spell from the graveyard isn't good?
>>44245213
>Unearth
>Wanting to perpetuate Creatures: The Tappening
There needs to be a viable standard legal deck with zero combat damage. Unearth would only advocate for combat damage.With flashback the focus is on the spells.
>>44245197
>You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost.
Flashback makes the card exile itself as soon as it has resolved, you know. And it is a replacement effect.
>>44245052
I can play a creature removal spell to get rid of one of your creatures.
then next turn I can play this goblin and recast that removal spell.
Now I have a 4/4 menace and you have nothing.
>>44245197
>>(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
>It is not. It is it's own clause. If it was a replacement it would read like Goblin Dark-Dwellers.
702.33. Flashback
702.33a Flashback appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities: one that functions while the card is in a player’s graveyard and another that functions while the card is on the stack. “Flashback [cost]” means “You may cast this card from your graveyard by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost” and “If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack.” Casting a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2f–h.
>"If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack.”
As the comp rules show,a creature with flashback would never touch the battlefield before going into exile.
>>44245148
That wouldn't work. The creature would be exiled as soon as it tries to leave the stack.
>>44241239
>This lets you Bust off of Boom//Bust for a total CMC of 5
How? the Bust half has a cmc of 6
>>44245544
The card has both 2 and 6 CMC, so the entire card is a valid target for the triggered ability; think Counterbalance and Wear//Tear. When you cast the card, since it's the entire card, you can choose which half of the card to cast.
ITT: Standard players.
>>44245630
So?
>>44245339
That's assuming that you can kill whatever card they played. We already saw that Wizards is reprinting Geist of Saint Traft. A lot of the removal is really conditional right now anyways.
And how does a 4/4 stack up against Seige Rhino? Hmm I wonder which one wins in combat...
>>44245646
that's for the duel deck, which doesn't grant cards standard legality
>>44245610
So you can cast Boom, but not Bust.
>>44245732
that's a good question.
>>44245148
>>44245197
>being this retarded
>>44245732
You can cast either half. The goblin's ability doesn't target half a card. It targets the entire card.
>>44245646
theres a 3 mana spell that kills any creature or planeswalker.
Plus menace gets past rhino if theres only one creature left.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers CAN cast the Bust half of Boom/Bust
From 708.6 of the comp rules
>708.6a Anything that performs a positive comparison (such as asking if a card is red) or a relative comparison (such as asking if a card’s converted mana cost is 3 or less) involving one or more split cards in any zone other than the stack or involving one or more fused split spells gets only one answer. This answer is “yes” if either side of each split card in the comparison would return a “yes” answer if compared individually.
and
>Example: Sunforger has an ability that reads, “{R}{W},Unattach Sunforger: Search your library for a red or white instant card with converted mana cost 4 or less and cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then shuffle your library.” This ability can be used to cast either half of Research/Development, as Research has converted mana cost 2 (even though Development has converted mana cost 5) and Development is red (even though Research is neither red nor white).
>>44245808
you should go look at the rules on that....
>>44246054
You mean these rules? >>44245961
>>44245961
I'm actually rather impressed that whoever wrote the comp rules picked Research/Development as the example for that one, because that's probably the most counterintuitive case of all. It looks like neither side should be a valid cast (since neither of them fulfills both conditions), but actually they're BOTH valid.
>>44246108
Well, that's not how my group plays it.
>>44246435
Then your argument is refuted.
>>44246435
Well, then your group plays it wrong.
>>44246435
So you never checked the rules yourself, but told me to check the rules.
>>44246557
No, we play it how we play it.
If you joined my group, you would be playing it wrong.
>>44246478
>>44246557
>>44246572
So easily baitable
>>44246592
Do the uhh how does anus mana work? thing. That shit can bait a fucking whale in these threads.
>>44246592
>autism, the post
>>44246642
>i was only pretending to be retarded
>>44246592
No, if we joined your playgroup, we'd be playing by The Rules, rather than your houserules. Almost everyone starts playing Magic casually with friends and houseruling LOTS of stuff based on card text (like regeneration bringing stuff back from the graveyard, instead of putting a shield on the regenerated creature and preventing it from going there) but that shit won't fly at FNM, and if you're on the internet to talk about the game, you should be past houserules and try to play the game by the, y'know, rules. That's what that document's called. The Comprehensive Rules.
>>44246642
>Do the uhh how does anus mana work?
You mean the new color?
>>44246707
10/10.
NOT A COLOR.
A new restriction on some casting costs and differing notation between colorless and generic mana is not the same thing as a color.
>>44246689
>No, if we joined your playgroup, we'd be playing by The Rules, rather than your houserules.
If you're in our house, you play by our houserules. Breaking a houserule is no different than breaking any other rule.
>>44246707
Anus mana is not a new color, instead all cards that used to produce colorless mana now produce anus mana. Some cards in Oath of the Gatewatch require anus mana, denoted by anus symbols in its casting cost or activation cost, but all of these are still anus-colored. I mean colorless.
>>44246833
>>44246833
Except for the part where a houserule has no basis beyond "this is how we do it" and the rules exist in this comprehensive text of rules published by Wizards.
It's named (very creatively) the Comprehensive Rules. And if you ever want to play beyond your little kitchen table gang of houseruling friends, you'll learn when someone tries to teach you.
Or you're just as much a power tripping douchebag as some people I've played with in a small town without a local game store who took it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner of Magic's rules without ever looking at the rules themselves or judge rulings.
>>44246888
>Except for the part where a houserule has no basis beyond "this is how we do it"
Exactly. This IS how we do that. If you play with us, you follow those rules.
If you play elsewhere, you can follow whatever rules you like. It's not complicated.
>>44246921
Well that's cute. You go on doing whatever. However, when people discuss Magic rules on the internet, they do mean the REAL rules of the game, and not any fucking houserules you have cooked up at your home, so maybe refrain from bringing them up?
BIG QUESTION (for me, at least)
are they continuing the full art basic lands in this set too? or are wastes the only full arts for this set?
>>44246981
They should be.
Waste eats a common slot in the booster pack but a fat pack should contain wastes in the land pack.
>>44246921
That's the thing. We're not in your house right now. We're on /tg/. But you decided to bring in your own house rules when we're talking about the real rules.
>>44247018
I'm in my house so my rules apply. I'm only discussion how the game is played, you chose to make a big deal out of it.
>>44247046
>I'm only discussion how the game is played
no, you actually aren't
>>44247076
My apologies, Captain Grammar.
*I'm only discussing how the game is played.
>>44247046
Your rules don't apply to /tg/. Don't tell someone on /tg/ how they're wrong about the rules if you're not following the comprehensive rules.
>>44242243
>Flash back on a creature
>I know so much about magic
>why don't they let me design the cards
That's you right now.
>>44247114
This tangent started when >>44245732 argued that Dark-dwellers works one way, and people corrected him and cited the relevant rules, showing that it actually works the other way. There is no discussion. "That's not how we play it" is not a worthwhile comment, because the only possible reply is "you're playing it wrong then".
>>44247114
>I'm only discussing how the game is played.
no, you actually aren't
>>44245961
huh, at least I learned a thing today.
>>44247177
Well, that's how it's played here, so I don't know what to tell you.
Places over the world often have differences between common activities and conventions:
>driving on the left or right side of the road
>metric or imperial units
>standard ages of consent, adulthood, legal drinking, legal driving, ect.
This is no different. How my group plays the game is equally as valid as however your group decided to play.
>>44246435
if you play wrong you play wrong. there is no "well my group does different."
>>44247318
>societal differences are the same as a game created with a specific rules and lines of play
you must be a riot at chess
>>44247388
I was never very good at it, because I couldn't understand how the horse moves.
I don't see how that's relevant, though.
>>44247318
>How my group plays the game is equally as valid as however your group decided to play.
Dude. Magic the Gathering rules are not fucking OPINIONS. It's not an RPG, it's not even Munchkin, it's a game that people play professionally in tournaments for tens of thousands of dollars and its rules are not vague or malleable.
It's like you're arguing that your houseruled version of Chess is equally valid as the real game of Chess. No it's not. You may have fun with it, but it's not the real game. The real game is strictly codified.
>All the retards ITT still replying to bait.
/tg/ is really piss easy to bait.
>>44247455
>>44247419
Yeah I mean if anyone doesn't realize this is bait after this genius post then they ought to join the masterbaiter's playgroup.
>>44247318
so, just played wrong then.
>>44247438
>Magic the Gathering rules are not fucking OPINIONS.
I know. And that's why it's starting to piss me off when you say my group's rules aren't valid and then you put forth your own.
Your rules are valid where you play and mine are valid where I play. You can't just pick and choose based on your opinions what you want you want consider correct or not. You don't go to a foreign country and go "Oh, well in my opinion, I don't like this law, so I'm not observing it."
Either they're all right or none are.
>it's a game that people play professionally in tournaments for tens of thousands of dollars
We don't do any of that, so that's not relevant.
>>44247455
>i don't agree and have no argument
>better call bait!
And you are the worst kind of person. If you have nothing to say, say nothing.
>>44247438
is there a trick to powergaming munchkin that you could describe in a single post?
inb4 be an asshat like >>44247046 and just create new rules. i want to expose flaws in the existing rules.
>>44247616
>I know. And that's why it's starting to piss me off when you say my group's rules aren't valid and then you put forth your own.
>Either they're all right or none are.
They're not "my own". They're the rules. The actual rules of the game, as written by the actual people who designed the game. Any other rules are incorrect. It's that simple. There are NO international differences whatsoever, there is only one correct set of Magic rules, that's correct everywhere, and that is the official rules as written in the Comprehensive Rules document which you can find at the Wizards of the Coast website (WotC being the company that invented Magic).
>We don't do any of that, so that's not relevant.
Actually it's very relevant. The tournament rules, you see, are the only correct rules. Any other rules are wrong rules. It's that simple. They're not up for personal interpretation: the official version is true and everything else is false.
>>44247720
Houserules exist to supersede and fix part of the official rules. In doing so, they become the official rules for that establishment.
>>44247869
daily reminder that casual is the biggest demographic among people who spend $ on MTG and virtually none of them follow the rules
>>44246981
Oath contains full-art lands as well.
The Oath fatpack contains the same number of full-art Plains, Islands, Swamps, Mountains, and Forests as the Battle for Zendikar fatpack did, along with 14 full-art Wastes.
Intro Decks will have non full-art Wastes for those who want non full-art Wastes
>>44247720
>>44240908
I like it. I feel like I could see play in modern with cards like kolaghanging comand, abrupt decay, terminate, dissmember, helix, stp, bolt and a lot of others depending on colors. It's not as flexible as snapcaster but I feel it does well in non blue deck or even as a 1 or 2 of with snapcaster.
>>44248987
Whoops I mentioned path not stp
If you cast a spell without paying its mana cost will you still need to pay its other costs like sacrificing a creature with altars reap?
>>44249095
Yes. "Without paying its mana cost" only means you don't pay the mana cost. All other costs still apply.
>>44249145
thanks friend
>>44247720
>The tournament rules, you see, are the only correct rules.
But what about non-tournament rules, like archenemy, planechase, and vanguard?
>>44249174
Keep in mind that additional costs that require mana must still be paid. For example, if you cast Enter the Infinite through Omniscience while Thorn of Amethyst is on the battlefield, you must still pay {1}.
>>44246435
Daily reminder that this guys 'group' is probably just him sitting on the floor in his bedroom playing against himself.
>>44241497
SaffronOlive did a modern LD deck with Boom/Bust in it. It actually has good matchups as long as they aren't playing against zoo
New card
>>44249226
They dont change how split cards work.
>>44249598
Kinda like a walking Staff of Nin. It's cute and not total trash.
>>44249598
cool card
cool abilities
cool art
>>44249598
So is that 5 square manas or 5 + 1 square mana.
>>44249886
It means 5 anus mana which is the new color of magic.
>>44249886
It means 5 generic mana and one colorless
>>44249886
If a card says 4U, does that mean it costs 4 blue?
>>44250092
that's a big cost
>>44250092
It means the spell will be extremely painful.
>>44249598
EDH crowd is going to love this one, assuming they're allowed to use it. Does "anus" count as a separate color identity for EDH purposes? Or do you need to have an anus-cost commander to be allowed to use this?
>>44250282
Unless they specifically errata it. He could be used with any commander
>>44250282
anus is colorless
colorless is allowed in any commander deck
>>44250323
It's worth pointing out they probably will change the EDH rules, mostly because Sheldon is a dickless faggot.
>>44250393
They've already decided to not change the rules...in any ways. Including the one about getting colorless mana when you add a color outside your commander's color identity to your mana pool with something like a city of brass (so like, choosing green when playing zur or picking blue with doran)
>>44249226
Those are also technically tournament rules
>>44249598
Neat. A release promo that's actually worth looking at
>>44249598
>more midrange bullshit
Magic is getting really stale.
>>44249226
They are, delightfully, covered in the Comprehensive Rules.
Damn that document is a comprehensive set of rules.
>>44250393
Any changes would make no sense.
>limit colorless cards to commanders who have a colorless cost
That means we have like one revealed commander
>limit colorless cards only to colorless commanders
Them we completely change the edh meta.
The rules as they are now work perfectly fine
>>44250875
>Any changes would make no sense
So, just like their banlist, then.
>>44250875
The rules as they are are fucking retarded.
Like how they treat hybrid, or off-color activated abilities, or Quenchable Fire.
And now Colorless Costs are added to that list, because rainbow lands can cast them in EDH (despite that being against the point of colorless costs) as long as you aren't a five-color general.
>>44249598
It's nice but it's weird that those utility abilities are tacked onto such a huge body (and cmc).
>>44249598
Digging how disjointed this card is. Its abilities cover almost all colors in ways that (aside from untap each turn) don't make sense together in the slightest. Either really poorly designed, or exceptionally good design for what should be an incomprehensible monstrosity.
>>44251643
It's an Eldrazi. Even their mana dorks are 4/4s for 5.
>>44251231
Completely agree that rainbow lands shouldn't be able to make colorless due to the way mana generation rules are, but it may prove to not be a problem if there are no colorless requiring cards that are must plays in every deck.
I think the current stance on hybrids and off-color costs is perfectly fine. There's no hybrid cards that absolutely need to be played in mono/off color decks
>>44251737
The entire point of hybrid is that they're the OR to traditional multicolor's AND, though. Restricting them as though they were traditional multicolor is kind of missing the entire point of the cards. The only reason I've ever seen given is 'because some of those cards are off color and shouldn't be allowed in single color decks'...yet they allow things like Sylvan Library and other such old cards or the entirety of Planar Chaos.
As for off-color costs, I'm just wondering WHY they're not allowed. WHY can't I play my Sunscape Master in a White/Blue deck without it being full Bant or five-color? The mana production rules already don't let me make the green to activate the ability, so why can't I play the card?
>>44251832
Because it's /more/ complicated, not less, that you have these abilities that you can't activate rather than that you can't have these cards because their colour identity is in ALL of those colours.
>>44250875
>>Limit cards with anus mana to anus mana commanders only
There. Problem solved. Colorless <> (C).
>>44252084
>Sol Ring banned in anything other than Kozilek the Great Distortion
>painlands banned period due to no commanders being both C and not C
>>44252134
Those are colorless, not Colorless.
>>44252134
Let me rephrase that.
>>Limit cards with anus mana CASTING COSTS to anus mana commanders only.
Sorry. I should have been more clear.
>>44252193
Then colourless mana still doesn't work like coloured mana. It's like Noble Heirarch and Sol Ring. You can't put Heirarch in a Commander deck without a blue colour identity, but you can put a Sol Ring in anything? Even though they're both producing a kind of mana that's restricted to commanders of that kind of mana, like Kozilek?
>>44252193
The problem is that color identity is a bullshit, made-up rule that is enforced in the worst possible way. Real Magic has no concept of color identity. It's idiotic.
People will defend it to death because "muh EDH", though.
>>44252188
They're the same thing. Colorless is colorless is colorless is colorless. "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" is being replaced with "T: Add C to your mana pool", and that's going back as well as forward. Sol Ring taps for CC starting with Oath.
>>44252228
>You can't put Heirarch in a Commander deck without a blue colour identity
I never understood that.
There's already a rule saying you can't produce mana that isn't of your Commander's colors. So why did they feel the need to restrict it further?
And fucking hybrid mana counting as both colors? This format is so ass-backwards.
>>44252283
It's easier to explain "You can't put that card into your deck for this reason" before games than it is to explain "you can't activate that ability of your creature in play that you thought you could for this reason".
>>44252504
No, pretty sure 'oh I don't have the mana to activate this' doesn't even need to be explained.
>>44246921
Why are you even in an MtG thread then. Go to your houserule thread.
>>44252504
Except that the "You can't put that card into your deck for this reason" clause makes little sense. Hybrid mana alone destroys your argument, not to mention stuff like Crystal Shard.
Saying upfront "You Commander has these colors, so you can't generate these other manas. If you do, they instantly turn to colorless" isn't nearly as complex.
Color identity is needlessly complicated.
>>44252647
Hopefully they will clarify this soon. They need to do something or anus mana will be a big problem in Commander.
>>44243123
Yeah sadly I don't think this guy fits in legacy goblins. We'd have to completely restructure the deck for it to work.
Maybe something like RUG cascade and ancestral visions because this guy can flash back visions and the like. But if we're playing blue our other spells can just be snapcaster'd.
But if we start flashing back wheel of fate with notion thief on the field ...
>>44251832
I always thought the reason you can't play Sunscape Master in a White/Blue deck is the same reason Memnarch and Yasova actually function as commanders.
It would be weird if Yasova counted as a green card for deck construction purposes, but also counted as a RUG commander.
>>44244027
>Tfw wotc reprints you and you can't even be played in a competitive deck before rotation
Thanks for the gesture though, wotc
Color identity in edh is handled in the most clumsy way possible. Color identity should just be... color. No mana symbols in rules text or anything. Just, what color(s) does it cost to cast your commander? All your cards must also only take those colors to cast.
Also, no mana color limitation. If you're playing a white-black commander well... you can't have cards with red mana symbols on them anyway, so what does it fucking matter if you tap a City of Brass for red mana? The mana turning colorless is a needless complication.
>>44252985
color identity is just an awkward concept in general, I don't think there is anyway to implement it that isn't clumsy in someway.
The mana color limitation is super goofy though, I agree. I mean making red in a W/B deck can be relevant (what if you Enslave an opponent's Bosh) but I don't see what's so wrong with using stolen off-color abilities. I suppose they didn't want the ability to make off color mana a weird upside.
>>44252822
It used to be that Memnarch counted as Blue for deck purposes...but colorless as a general, back when I started. It took a while before they decided that generals should be looking at the full text as well as nongenerals.
I'd honestly like to see Yasova be able to be run in monogreen - if you want to run the card because I don't know, you like the character or something, but can't actually pay the cost for her ability, then whatever, that's on you, but it'd also open her up to being playable in GR and GU in the deck
>>44252822
That's exactly why.
>>44252985
The only time Color Identity makes sense is with the Fate Reforged khans and like Memnarch and Bosh, and then only as generals.
Legendary creatures with activated abilities outside their casting cost's color.
>>44251723
the only color not repped is black
1st ability green
2nd ability red
3rd ability white
4th ability blue
you could argue that it's mana cost in both amount and the way it is costed relative to it's power level fit black based off cards like doomwake giant (big fat fatty with rules text for one specific and a grip of nonspecific mana), but that might be reaching a bit far because things like thragtusk exist in other colors.
>>44252985
>I should be able to cheat all the best creatures in the format into play, this will surely diversify the meta
who si chan4
>>44245299
>I would rather try to shoehorn a mechanic to work in a way it explicitly doesn't work than use the functional mechanic that does what I'm trying to do in a much less confusing way because people using their combat phase makes me sad!
No, that's stupid. Use Unearth.
>Either really poorly designed, or exceptionally good design for what should be an incomprehensible monstrosity.
I don't know if WotC has the design chops for that.
The creature looks like a limited bomb and that's it. Nothing special, and definitely not something that you'll want in constructed.
>>44255071
Explain how any of that would enable "cheating all the best creatures into play".
>>44245046
>>44245093
So would it be like a graveyard version of evoke?
>>44258352
I feel like there's not a huge reason to make a strictly worse Unearth.
>That's a card
>it's a fine card
>it's a thing
Stop.
>>44240908
Seems like it was made for Seething Song.
>>44258163
are you fucking retarded?
if you remove the the color identity rules now you can reanimate/show and tell whatever you want
Want to run mono-black? Awesome now we can toss Iona in there
Or Sneak Attack a Craterhoof in RW, I don't give a fuck
The color identity rules make you consider your commander for more than just it's abilities since you're limited in the card pool that you can use. Removing the color identity rules would make EDH even closer to Vintage singleton since now you can just run whatever fucking reanimator/aggro/combo/control package you want regardless of commander.
>>44262584
So it would be like real Magic?
What's the problem, then?
>>44262997
>real magic
I don't have a Costanza smarmy enough to respond to this scrub
