One hundred years ago, the knights lead a revolution in one country, X, (unnamed to allow adaptation for different settings.) and seized the reins of power after the people had become cynical after repeatedly seeing the corruption, bigotry and false promises of the Knights of the Virgin. As a result popular opinion shifted in that country and the people of that country discovered a newfound dedication to love and romance which had been suppressed by the Knights of the Virgin as sin and godlessness.

Upon seizing power, these men (founders were dead by this time) sought to promote the equal participation of women in civil society and became the first knighthood in history to allow women to become equal members with all the rights and privileges as men. Their coming out into the open has opened them to attack by the Knights of the Virgin who currently dominate other areas of the world. The Knights of the Scarlet Woman have found unlikely allies in the Fey and certain sympathetic devils and demons. (Although the activities of the Knights of the Scarlet Woman are by no means evil.)

The motto of this order is, “For love one should risk respectability and even life itself.” Another motto is, “The sun shines no less brightly on you because it shines on others.” Membership is open to all men and women who are willing to abide by the rules of the order. Knights upon entry take a vow to remain bachelors all their life, to renounce jealousy and possessiveness and not to hoard their love by only loving one man or woman but many. All those seeking membership also go through an initiation ritual which includes the blaspheming of the symbols of the Knights of the Virgin, orgies, feasting and the ritual deflowering of a (willing) virgin. Participants dress up as demons and devils during the rituals.

Members receive a number of benefits and have a certain number of corresponding duties as part of their membership. The organization provides an atmosphere of tolerance where open discussion of secular ideas takes place. Members also receive a set of armor or robes depending on their class with the emblems of the order. (The order’s symbol is a kissing nymph and succubus intertwined with one another.) Members have a duty to come to the aid of fellow members in times of need and to remain loyal to the ideals of the order. They have a duty to fight for the order when called upon and to be courageous (although not stupid) in the face of persecution and difficulty. Members also receive a copy of the book of verse White Stains which was composed Aleister Crowley; this book is also the guiding text of the order.

Members are required to train in the warrior arts (or some equivalent class which has combat use such as mages, clerics, druids, thieves, bards etc.) or to demonstrate, on a regular basis, competence in the art of war as a means of ensuring the strength of the order. Members are either sent on missions, covert or overt, or called upon to wage war on the Knights of the Virgin. Members are also called upon to spread the message of the order if they have the capacity.

The order regularly kidnaps beautiful women who would otherwise have been caged in the prison of chastity. The women are educated (and brainwashed if necessary) and trained to become scarlet women. They have all the rights and privileges of members of the order except for the following restrictions:
A. They cannot leave the order.
B. They can choose their sexual partners but they cannot choose to be chaste.
Most of these young women choose to stay in the order and those who are recalcitrant are enchanted by various charm spells into cooperating. They are not forced to have sex with someone they do not want to and they are not physically abused. Only non-coercive enchantment spells are used.

The order is structured on democratic lines for the election of representatives to the senate and the senate then gives a charter to military commanders to carry out military operations in various areas. Men and women are equal participants in the senate and the proportion of men and women is roughly equal.

The Knights of the Virgin consider the order to be evil while more pagan persons consider them to be heroes. The Knights of the Scarlet Women have found allies among druids, thieves guilds, the fey, bards and certain demons and devils. (such as Succubi and Eriynes.)

What can be said about the morality of this controversial order? That, dear reader, is for you to judge.

What do you think?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page2

The symbol of this knighthood is a nymph and a succubus making out so that should have shed some light on where I stand.

In real life I support gay marriage, even though I think homosexuality is unnatural (not lesbianism mind you, just homosexuality.)

In the game, this organization would frown upon men having sexual relationships with one another although women would be fully free and encouraged to do so.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page3

It seems to me that if such a knighthood were to ever exist and to seize power, whether in real life or in D&D, it would take place in a country like France.

Therefore I have decided to model the country where this revolution takes place after France. That will also be the location of the headquarters of the knighthood.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page4

Let me start out by saying that many responders to this thread seem to take this too seriously, instead of in the spirit of humor and light-heartedness in which it was meant.

The women in this organization have full sexual freedom, they just can't choose to be chaste.

As far as the children, I am working on a spell to prevent pregnancies and to safely abort a fetus if necessary in the Birth Control and D&D thread.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page5

I never said that rape was okay.

What I said was that the Knights of the Scarlet Woman think that by kidnapping women and educating them to be sexually free they are liberating women from the bonds of chastity.

It is not exactly rape because the women are not forced to have sex involuntarily with someone. They are simply forbidden from being chaste, otherwise they retain full freedom to choose their sexual partner. If it was rape, they wouldn't retain such freedom.

I did not say full freedom, I said full sexual freedom. Sexual freedom does not include chastity.

A chaste woman is not sexually free but rather sexually suppressed.

I'm sure there will be many handsome knights in the order; there is bound to be at least one knight that catches a woman's eye.

And if you enjoy it, it's not rape.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page6

>Unless they're choosing to be chaste, which would imply that it's a choice, and choices usually imply freedom. That's just the basic Law of Syllogism at work.

It is freedom but not sexual freedom.

For instance, academic freedom is the freedom to do academic things.

Sexual freedom is the same way.

>A woman being attracted to her rapist does not make rape not rape.

>Enjoying it does not make rape not rape.

>Consenting makes it not rape.

Let's agree to disagree.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page7

Of course lack of consent is rape, but when the women choose which man they have sex with they are consenting.

>and when that choice becomes none of the above, what then?

Then non-coercive enchantment spells to help the woman see the light, unless she is unsatified with the option of men before her in which case the knighthood will provide her within reasonable limits with other men from which to choose.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page8

Consent depends on the relative age of the man and the woman. If a woman is an adult, (18) then she can have sex with any man regardless of his age. (except children)

Then there is the case of teenagers. Teenagers if they are within relatively the same age category would also be allowed and encouraged to have sex. (For instance a 13 yr. old girl and a 15 year old boy.)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page8

>What exactly is a non-coercive enchantment spell that will make sure someone has sex with another person?

>And if you have to magic them into doing it, how much freedom would they actually be exercising when they do it?

An enchantment spell that does not involve intimidation, beatings etc.

I fully aware that this knighthood is evil. (Although I think they are doing a service to women.)

I am simply arguing from their side. My arguments are how they see it.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page9

I think the knighthood in it's efforts to educate and promote sexual freedom is doing a service to women.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page14

I'm sure there are plenty of suitable men available if a woman is interested in having a relationship.

I would not place any time limits, unless the woman was suspected of intentionally deceiving the order to maintain her chastity.

If a woman remained without entering into sexual relationships for too long, the knighthood would most likely take this to be an abnormal sign and investigate. Perhaps even provide some "encouragement" in the form of enchantment spells unless the woman was of high ranking and known to be trustworthy.

As a matter of fact, I have read Marquis De Sade.

The motto, "the sun shines no less brightly on you, because it shines on others" was from his works.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page16

Having children is something different than the libertine lifestyle.

It is possible for two Knights of the Scarlet Woman to get together and have children and continue their libertine lifestyle.

I play online so I do not whether the persons I play with are male or female.

There are persons of many different stripes and colors in this world.

Don't be surprised if you find persons who would want to play in a game with this sort of theme.

After all, you have already found one.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308234-Knights-of-the-Scarlet-Woman/page17

A hero could approve of the goals of the Knights of the Scarlet Woman and disapprove of their means.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308425-Knights-of-the-Virgin

These are the villains in a tentative campaign which I am thinking of running.

Tell me what you think.

Some men wish that things be presented in a clear-cut fashion to them; that difficult choices either not be made at all or made by someone else. Such men seek to avoid the responsibility of thinking, which is a desire to avoid the responsibility of freedom. Dear reader, you have become acquainted with the Knights of the Scarlet Woman. You may have been repulsed and sought refuge in the opposite of those knights in the hopes that they would be better, but the enemy of an evil is not necessarily a good. It can be another evil. History teaches us that evil does not manifest itself openly, that the evil that is done in this world is often done in the name of so-called goodness. (since there are those who disagree with the princinples of chastity, duty, altruism etc.) I am here to tell you about one such organization that does evil in the name of alleged goodness which you should already know a few things about: the Knights of the Virgin.

These knights are the worshippers of the ideals of duty, self-sacrifice, altruism and selflessness. They see themselves as noble crusaders for good. They believe that they are led by a commander, X, (left unnamed for now) who has been sent to them from the Deity to lead them to a better tomorrow. Believing their commander to be mystically enlightened, they have sworn an oath of unconditional obedience to him. They see themselves as the chosen and all who disagree as the damned. They are supporters of a conservative social order which recognizes the proper rank and place of everyone: the priest, the aristocrat, the knight, the man, the woman etc. They oppose all secular and dissenting ideas, which to them represent the work of the devil in men’s hearts.

The knights make entry open to all, and in fact support the drafting of all able-bodied men. They see it as the duty of every able-bodied man to fight for the holy cause which they have undertaken. The knights also support the conscription of women for breeding purposes to produce soldiers for the armies of righteousness. Their mentality manifests itself in what they consider to be wisdom. For instance, their motto is “Obedience and duty; our lives belong to the state.” One of their most revered sages has said “In childhood a woman should be dependent on her father, in youth on her husband, in old age on her children; a woman should never be independent.” Another of their mottos is, “A woman, like a walnut tree, should be beaten every day.” And if you were wondering, yes, they punish adulterers with death, as they do to homosexuals and those convicted of dissent.

Those who are members of the organization receive a set of armor with the emblems of the order. The symbol of the order is an arm holding a sword with a crown dangling from the arm like a bracelet. Members are highly respected in areas where the knights holds sway. Higher ranking members get to indulge in “aristocratic pleasures” denied to the common masses. Adventurers receive payment for any missions they do on behalf of the order. (It is possible for such adventurers to be drafted, which is sad, but is an unfortunate reality.)

The knights are allied with certain celestial beings, certain churches and the aristocracy. Their sworn enemies are those dedicated to pagan ideals. Among these are the chief enemy of the knighthood, the Knights of the Scarlet Woman, while allies of the K.S.W. are also considered enemies. The Knights of the Virgin have been commanded to kill any K.S.W. members on sight and attack if they see anyone wearing the emblems of the enemy order. That is of course, if the knight is not high-ranking, in which case they are ordered to capture such knights and send them to the headquarters of the order to be tortured and interrogated. The Knights of the Virgin believe in honor and do not use trickery to win battles. All members have a duty to lay down their lives for the state, as the state is considered a living, breathing entity who is the Deity’s representative on earth.

The commander of the knights is appointed by the head priest who receives a vision from the deity as to the right man to lead the righteous to glorious victory. There is a military hierarchy and there is no civilian control of the military in the areas where the knighthood holds sway. The order is popular in conservative areas but shunned like the plague in pagan, secular, and liberal areas.

Sometimes reality is grim and presents men with difficult choices. This is one such choice. In a world where neither side can be called good, which will you choose, dear reader?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308425-Knights-of-the-Virgin/page4

I was planning to have this campaign take place in Eberron where gods don't walk the earth since I think it is more realistic for them not to.

Dandu, your sorcerer may be powerful, but that is one person.

This doesn't mean that every area in the world is enlightened, or that women are even allowed opportunities for advancement in some areas.

On the whole, women are going to be to some extent disadvantaged in my campaign. (not mechanics-wise, just story-wise.)

Although I was planning on having a number of independent and high ranking women in the K.S.W.

Edit: I also don't think physically powerful women are realistic hence it is possible that I have women use the dexterity stat instead of strength when they decide to become fighters.

Edit: Sexism is bad, but we should not forget the historical position of women and try to evade it.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308425-Knights-of-the-Virgin/page4

In this organization, women's rank depends on the number of children they have produced.

They receive medals for such achievements.

It is not consistent with their principles and premises to have independent women as members or to allow such women to exist.

Also, I fully support women playing D&D. D&D is like theater, both men and women can play and derive enjoyment from the game.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308425-Knights-of-the-Virgin/page6

Your attitude as to what these two orders would do seems to be very unrealistic.

One is a pagan, secular, liberal knighthood. The other is a religious, conservative knighthood.

The possibility of their ever allying is nil.

Edit: I am sorry Miss, if you are offended by the fact that life is unfair, but that is how things are.

I thought their paganism would be obvious since Aphrodite is the greek goddess of love. (By paganism I don't mean the paganism of today. I mean that they follow the pagan maxim "eat, drink and be merry.")

As far as how life being unfair relates to D&D, if women were made physically equal and we pretended that in this fantasy world they had always had rights and everthing went as they wished, it would not be realistic. Consequently, it would be a bad story.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308425-Knights-of-the-Virgin/page8

And yet, when there was a conquest by some warlord, the first thing to do after the victory was round up all the young, beautiful women and ravish them.

Edit: Miss, D&D is like theater or fiction writing. Both men and women can write fiction or engage in theater, but to ignore the realities of history is not going to allow me to run the type of campaign I want. I am interested in running a campaign which people can relate to and to deal with issues similar to those dealt with on the earth.

And women have opportunities in this campaign. It is possible for women to rise through the ranks of the Knights of the Scarlet Woman.

The setting may be fictional, but even in a fictional setting I would like to see some resemblence to life on this earth and the struggles of people living on this earth.

www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308425-Knights-of-the-Virgin/page9

Yes, if a woman wanted to overthrow these knightly orders through brute force, the way a conqueror would attempt to, she would have no chance.

Guile is another matter.

As far as the campaign being about men looking to get laid, I can only repeat what another poster has said in some other thread: there is better porn on the internet.

Edit: The purpose of the story was not so much about women, although they enter into the story, but about sexual morality and two opposing views of life.

The secular, liberal, pagan view and the conservative, religious view.

These knighthoods are two evil organizations, but each follows one of these philosophies.

Now it is true that neither of them are good, because the conflict here was never between good vs. evil.

Now with the entrance of PCs into the events that are transpiring, things become different because the PCs can make choices and choose to be good.

It also provides for an interesting campaign since it creates a conflict of values within the PCs.

www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308425-Knights-of-the-Virgin/page10

The order's logic goes something like this:

If men are being conscripted to fight in the army, why shouldn't women be conscripted to produce children to fight in the army?

Most RW believers in chastity praise women who have many children so there is no conflict.

They are going to be worshipping a virgin as their deity. (Similar to the Virgin Mary)

Not to mention they're anti-sex.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?308425-Knights-of-the-Virgin/page11

They are anti-sex because they believe that sex is evil and that a person should only have sex for reproductive purposes and not for fun.

Religious conservatives in the America believe in promoting family values and having lots of children and they are anti-sex so the apparent conflict between being anti-sex and pro-family (at least allegedly pro-family) doesn't exist.

>>44205776

And right here this goes from lighthearted fun to something disgusting, rapey and evil. Magical coercion and brainwashing? Always evil. Forced sex of any sort, even with a choice of partner? Always rape, always evil.

This is probably bait. I remember seeing these linked a while ago as an example of something mind numbingly dumb, creepy and stupid. I don't want to believe anyone would actually use this shit in a game.

>>44205754
>>44205762
>>44205776
>>44205779
>>44205789
>>44205797
>>44205815
>>44205826
>>44205835
>>44205844
>>44205849
>>44205868
>>44205881
>>44205888
>>44205906
I was wondering what to use as a end game threat for a full Cavalier party and you handed me the tools OP. Thanks.

This is kind of fucked up but thanks.

>>44205754
Cute copypasta, chief