>>44175353
Is tier based on average optimization? Because the average wizard I play with is complete shit at his job.

Disregarding any issues with picking a Rogue itself, is the Knife Master archetype worthwhile? D8s on sneak attacks, looks nice, but its only 1 extra damage per die on average. I think.

Has anyone played any of the B5 races yet, like the Caligni or Reptoid?
How was it?

>>44175383
It's based on equal optimization. A mid-op wizard is better than a mid-op fighter, and a high-op wizard is better than a high-op fighter.

>>44175396
sneak attack doesn't matter if you can't ever deliver it. putting yourself into position to get full-attack raped in order to kill one opponent is not a good life choice.

>>44175383
It's based on a large variety of factors that aren't well explained which is why people argue about them so much even though they're just a general guideline that gives players and DMs an idea of what to expect from a class.

>>44175420
>equal optimization
so what does that mean? equal hours spent? equal amount of good choices?

>>44175359
>you will never capture the Tarrasque, put it on a spaceship, drag it to Earth, and drop it into the Pacific

>>44175383

All things being equal.

Someone who's bad at a wizard is still generally going to have a better time than someone that's bad at playing a fighter or a monk.

Someone who optimizes the shit out of their monk is still not going to get nearly the returns the guy who optimized to the exact same extent on their druid.

>>44175442
Similar overall final power, regardless of class, I'd imagine.

>44175361
32 vs 25 for high-powered. That's extra 5 points in favor of PF when you take into account that PF point-buy starts at 10. Not to mention that you can dump a stat to 7 which you couldn't do in 3.5. Overall, PF point-buy is slightly better for MAD classes and slightly worse for SAD classes unless you do shit like 50 point-buy, which isn't exactly what the system is meant for.

>>44175452
>Someone who's bad at a wizard is still generally going to have a better time than someone that's bad at playing a fighter or a monk.
You see I disagree. I saw a illusionist gnome sorcerer who sucked massive dick. His spell list was complete shit, and he could do almost nothing useful.

>>44175470
>Similar overall final power
power to deal damage? power to mind-rape princesses? power to perform songs?

>>44175493

As opposed to the monk at a similar level of incompetence, whose only job is to hit things and can't even do that.

>>44175359
#1: I'm more of a fan of the idea of just marking some archetypes/builds with an asterisk to denote that they're higher in their tier than most/all other options for that class.

#2: See >>44174996

Anyway, unrelated to OP: is the idea of a huge dungeon that actually has enough peaceful residents gathered in some area of it to pass that area as a town a plausible notion?

>>44175401
Nope, the only thing me and my friends have done with them so far is mock the Astomoi.

>>44175392
>I actually have defended my position. Several times. You and I have had rational discussions, and I even agree with you on occasion I like warpriests too. But I don't make snide comments about hugboxes and triggering and I'm tired of seeing them. At this point all you do is fellate yourself for being the outsider. You sound like Tumblr.

You did? You don't use a name so I can't tell you apart from anyone else. Could you link to your old posts?
Plus, when someone shitposts/attacks me without actually talking about the point I brought up they don't deserve anything but snide comments or tumblr-tier baiting/insults.

>>44175442
Built by a player with equal understanding of the system.

>>44175359
Tiers are about the overall versatility of a class. It doesn't matter if a class is particularly good at combat, when all it can do is combat. ANYONE can be good at combat, it's called picking archery feats and buff spells.

Tiers are about how you can solve problems, how many ways you have to solve problems, and being able to solve multiple problems. Combat only classes solve the problem of there being an enemy infront of them.

Fighter? It solves this problem by damaging the enemy until it dies. It has trouble with any magical defenses, something not in it's specfic speciality of ranged/melee, or anything that can just get away from it.

Mages? Crowd control, summoning something, buffing allies, outright killing it through damage, escaping through a variety of spells, turning the monster into an ally, or doing things like terrain fuckery so the monster can't do anything.

This same basic metric applies to other classes as well. If a class can't do more than one thing, then that class is worthless. If you are over-specialized, then you are worthless. You NEED to be able to do more than one or two things. If you can't, don't bother even turning in a sheet.

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>>44175420

I fully believe that the tier list should be (and, to my understanding, currently is) based on "optimization ceiling short of theoretical optimization."

"Optimization ceiling short of theoretical optimization" is not especially difficult to gauge due to the reasonable degree of system mastery those interested in the tier list have, but "average optimization" is uselessly nebulous.

Consider that some classes have much wider rifts between optimization ceiling and optimization floor than others. Consider a sorcerer, for example: this is quite possibly the class with the grandest rift between optimization floor and optimization ceiling, and someone who simply picks whatever "seems cool" could wind up anywhere from tier 2 to tier 5.

Compare this to a barbarian, a class with a decidedly smaller rift between optimization ceiling and optimization floor: it is rather difficult to muck up a barbarian, and it is probably going to wind up in tier 4-5 regardless of what the player does.

This thread, which had been linked previously, does a good job of explaining the matter:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?459141-Optimization-and-Tiers-The-Tier-System-Expanded

On a tangent, renaming each tier would be a good step forward for improving the tier list. The numbers should be removed, so as to clear up the confusion between tier 2 and tier 3 (particularly since tier 3 is often more flexible than tier 2, simply lacking in raw power). For example:

- High Power and High Flexibility (formerly known as tier 1)
- High Power and Medium Flexibility (formerly known as tier 2)
- Medium Power and High Flexibility (formerly known as tier 3)

What could tier 4 be renamed to? "Medium Power and Medium Flexibility" does not quite encompass the current definition of:
>Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining.

>>44175353
Tiers give you a good general idea of the goodness of a class and what the experience will be when you try to actually do stuff.

If you want something more concrete, stays could be generated for specific builds at specific levels.

You can calculate how many kills you can do in a round, via spells or full attacking, and you could count how many options you have for solving problems besides killing stuff. And find a way to measure their effectiveness.

You could also make the effectiveness of your defences.

Nobody does, because doing all that is a lot of work.

Short of doing the work, and actually measuring, tiers are as close as you're going to get. And they just put you in a rough ballpark.

>>44175554
>mocking astomoi
Why?

>>44175630
>equal optimization
>average optimization
>equal understanding of the system

Weasel words. Weasel words everywhere.

>>44175646
>ANYONE can be good at combat
bard would like a word

Also: all of this is very level dependent. Level 1 is a whole different animal than level 20.

>>44175672
Where is the "high power, no versatility" area?

>>44175726
>Bard
>Bad at combat
>Why fight when you can just diplomacy everything

>>44175493
Wizard =/= sorcerer. Wizards have the privilege of being able to drastically change their loadout of spells if they realized they've made a poor choice in selecting what to prepare. If they take certain feats or leave a few slots open during the day, they don't even have to wait 24 hours to do it. Meanwhile, if you pick bad spells as a sorcerer, it'll be a long time before you have a chance to change the situation.

>>44175690
You'd want a variety of fairly high op builds for classes that you would use for such calculations.

You would then compare them against stats based on the published Bestiary monsters.

Again , all of this is a fair amount of work, and people would have to be dedicated enough to make the database of builds / monsters, and then run the stats on them.

>maybe classes are actually really complicated
>maybe classes with level gated abilities have different powers at different levels
>maybe classes have different possible builds, that have different levels of utility and power

>>44175769
I uh...

Well..I did some of that.

and it WAS a lot of work.

>>44175726
>Bard
>Bad at combat
Thunderstriker, that one build that throws 50 greatswords at people, a +Hit/Damage buff when used with an archer, any of their spells/abilities to crowdcontrol an enemy, any of their shit to get other people to fight for them...

You were saying?

>>44175726
You always just attempt to discredit everyones arguments because theres more than one of us or because you don't understand the difference between fallacies and debate etiquette.

>>44175789
Maybe tiers are just a vague generalization and aren't meant to be used as a strict gospel, you literally retarded nigger.

>>44175672
>I fully believe that the tier list should be (and, to my understanding, currently is) based on "optimization ceiling short of theoretical optimization."

And as you've already been told, it isn't and never was.

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>>44175646

This is not quite true. Tier 2 classes have more raw power than tier 3 classes, but have less flexibility. Even the tier list pastebin admits this:
>Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.

A sorcerer simply is not very versatile at all, not with 1/2 BAB, 2 + Intelligence skill points per level, being forced into raising Charisma (short of certain bloodlines), and an anemic amount of spells known. Still, its raw power is through the metaphorical roof thanks to its access to many a campaign-changing spell.

An alchemist, an inquisitor, or a hunter, comparatively, has nowhere as much campaign-changing spells, but can fight well with 3/4 BAB, use many a skill with 6 + Intelligence modifier skill points per level, and wield a wide variety of useful class features that can assist in a broad swath of fields.

>>44175726

"High Power and Low Versatility" could very well be tier 4 under this definition:
>Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining.

So perhaps tier 4 could be renamed "Medium Power and Medium Flexibility OR High Power and Low Flexibility"? Would it actually be worth it to try to divide the two, with barbarians and bloodragers falling under "High Power and Low Flexibility" and brawlers and rangers going into "Medium Power and Medium Flexibility"?

>>44175790
Got a link to the great sword build? Or a brief explanation of what is required to get it to work.

>>44175789
I've run such numbers occasionally for a specific character I made.

As I said, it's a lot of work.

Doable, but if you want something with hard data, you have to use that hard data.

>>44175701
We just thought they were rather silly and out of place. I'm not ruling out that anyone would ever want to use them or that anyone ever should (though my friend probably would) but they are such an unusually "out there" race that I doubt anyone will ever ask to play one in our group. Even any group I ever start playing with in the future, I would guess.

>>44175790
>Thunderstriker
fighter archetype?
>that one build that throws 50 greatswords at people,
lolwut? I want to see this. Seriusly. Post a link?

>>44175814
I'm not sure I can parse that sentance. Explain more?

>>44175816
You are too sensitive.

>>44175826
so would bow fighter fit into tier 4 then?

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>>44175820

If it is not based on "optimization ceiling short of theoretical optimization," then it is probably based on some ambiguous notion of "equal optimization," which is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to reasonably gauge.

Under the notion of "tiers assume equal optimization between characters," what does a low-optimization sorcerer look like, what does a low-optimization barbarian look like, and are they truly two tiers apart rather than just one tier apart?

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Without using any third-party materials, what is the maximum height that a character could jump?

Pic related, of course.

>>44175847
>>44175872
There's some sort of Bard power out there that lets you throw items, I think it's a spell? Waaaaay back people were talking about using it to throw swords at people.

>>44175896
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/3mjoo4/pathfinder_jumping_how_high_can_we_go/

>>44175872
I don't know what Greatsword-throwing build he's talking about (maybe the Telekinesis spell? Not sure they get it) but Thunderstriker is a bard archetype that can strike people with lightning using bardic performance, IIRC. Also, the Sound Striker in our group does pretty well for combat.

>>44175912

I believe it's Sonic Thrust or something. I remember it's a spell.

Some time ago I saw a paladin build with Unsanctioned Knowledge that mostly used it to throw a bunch of large greatswords around and do some stupid damage.

>>44175934

Thanks, friend.

>>44175623
I'm too lazy to go back too far, but I was the "One is an instance, two is a coincidence, three is a pattern" guy and I was also >>44171959 this guy in the last thread, among other things.

>You did? You don't use a name so I can't tell you apart from anyone else.

Isn't that the point of 4chan? To be anonymous?

Shouldn't you be treating people with respect because you don't know that they aren't somebody who was agreeing with you just two posts ago instead of assuming that everyone is out to get you for "hurting their feels" or something? I really get the impression that you're just lashing out because nobody agreed with you. I mean half the time you aren't even talking to anybody in particular, just complaining about hugboxes to the thread in general. Your attitude really doesn't help you convince others. I've developed a kneejerk reaction to disregard everything you say (whether it's good advice or not) because you keep picking fights.

>>44175895
I'm not saying that the current definition doesn't have problems. And of course it falls apart when you drop optimization low enough. But I would argue that accuracy is secondary to usefulness. The current definition gives the GM rough idea of what different kinds of characters can be reasonably expected to accomplish. Basing the tiers on optimization ceiling alone makes the entire tier list practically useless unless you're GMing for a group that plays close to that ceiling, in which case chances are that you don't need the tier list in the first place or you're out of your depth and the tier list by itself can't help with that.

I reiterate: The idea of the tier list is to be a useful tool for GMs(and players, to a lesser degree). Not some sort of master list to define which classes are "best".

Goz mask + ever smoking bottle = gg

>>44176007
>>44175847
>>44175872
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sonic-thrust

Yeah, this thing.

For even dumber shit, go grab the War Spell template from 3.5 Dragon Mag and apply it to this. Hurl 25 objects per level, dealing their base damage.

You thought Psychic Armory Soulknife was Gilgamesh? FUCK that weak ass shit.

>>44175863
That's pretty fair, although they do come from Greek myth.

>>44176073
>The current definition gives the GM rough idea of what different kinds of characters can be reasonably expected to accomplish.
Doesn't matter if they're optimized like ass.

>>44176073
In that case, then it should still have some changes. That fighter build shitposter spammed could do some useful damage. Melee fighter is still trash though.

>>44175896
>>44175934
>>44176007
The big issue of the build is that it's limited by your max movespeed, so if you want to do this you actually need to take the Fleet feat (multiple times at that), then fit in Branch Charge someplace after you become able to move 200 feet/round so you can jump 200 feet up and charge down 200 feet.

>>44176102
Really? I didn't know. But I find that amusing in a certain way, as I have a particular personal distaste for Greek mythology.

>>44176135
Branch Pounce. I meant Branch Pounce.

>>44176073
You know it's called a "tier list", right? Which is literally "power levels : the chart", and not "what is reasonably expected of these classes to do?"

Tier list = optimization ceiling. It's the same thing as a tier list for a fighting game.

This character has the most tools/cross-ups/options/etc and is top tier. It doesn't mention anything about how hard it is to optimize/use that character, because it doesn't matter.

Anyone who actually is looking this shit up is doing so because they're GOING to optimize their character.

>>44176208
So it's misnamed. It is not and never has been a strict list of power levels. Have you even read the original thread that started it?

>>44176154
Yep.
Astomoi were really handsome people who lived on an island somewhere and ate through smelling things, but could be killed with strong and disgusting smells.

The inky black skin, facelessness, and psychic stuff is all PF.

>>44176208
Tier lists are also for fighting only.

>>44175872
Every time someone argues against you, you accuse them of poor debate tactics or informal fallacies.

>>44176110
>>44176118
Like I said, the current definition has its share of problems. But replacing it with optimization problem would only solve the problems in exchange of making the tier list useless at its original purpose. I think we'd need a whole different definition if we wanted an accurate but useful tier list. That, or a list of well-definited optimization levels and separate tier lists for each level while also taking into account how they perform in a game with mixed optimization levels(which, to my understanding, is the most common scenario).

>>44176234
This is literally wrong, though. They're about overall shit.

>>44176208
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0

>>44176243
>well-definited optimization levels
Look at the GiantITP thread 2hu linked.

>>44175359
>>Question #1: Reorganizing the tier list for better definitions based on power vs. flexibility: yea or nay?
this will never occur becuase potatoes do not know how pathfinder works.

>>44176243
How about we make one for max, meh, and huh? Levels of optimization?

Is it possible to speed up crafting by increasing the DC by more than 5?

Is it just me or does the Aberrant archetype for Aegis seem unfinished? Stuff like Cannibalise Suit and Perfect Merger seem like they wouldn't apply to the Aberrant, but they aren't replaced.

>>44176291
Those optimization levels are rather poorly defined, though.

>>44176283
>http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0

>1) To provide a ranking system so that DMs know roughly the power of the PC classes in their group
>This post is NOT intended to state which class is "best" or "sucks." It is only a measure of the power and versatility of classes for balance purposes.

He's got wishful thinking. You can't just come out of the gate saying "THIS IS TO RANK THE POWER LEVELS" and then say "But PS, it isn't intended to say that some classes suck"

Less powerful = sucks

I don't care his intentions. If you make a list, listing things in order of their POWER, the things that are on the bottom of that list FUCKING SUCK. Let's not coddle T6fags.

Why do you give a shit about tiers?
They're abstractions that don't effect gameplay, a class is as good at it is.

>>44176232
And it's the inky black skin, facelessness, and psychic stuff that I find most laughable about the race. I mean, absorbing nutrients through contact is funky, but not the reason I labeled the class as "out there". If that was the only thing that stood out about them so much, I'd probably find them palatable- still not something I expect to frequently see people playing, but every once in a while you get a player who wants to play as an unusual race just for the sake of playing an unusual race.

I had just assumed they were probably based off some sort of eastern mythology or philosophy about enlightenment or something.

Currently converting monsters from Green Ronin Book of Fiends. Read that these daemons have completely different backstory and themes than PF daemons. Instead of trying to extinguish all life, they promote evil behavior in mortals to empower evil itself. Unlike devils they do not particularly desire control and unlike demons they are not necessarily hedonistic. They do not use the "[name]daemon" naming convention either.

Suggestions for what to do? Should I shoehorn them into canon daemons or make them into a race of their own?

>>44176370
Wait, PF demons want to extinguish all life? The fuck? They took the fairly variable and complex goals of demons and simplified it to "lol they're evil?"

>>44176370
Race of their own.
Maybe like the daemon version of Qlippoth?

>>44176385
Daemons, not demons.

>>44176344
Because it helps explain to new players at a glance why rolling up a straight Rogue or Monk isn't actually a good idea for a campaign with people playing real classes?

oops. Said this in last thread as it was dying. Posting again

Skaldanon from a few threads back. Kind of want to get a character r8/help for what I have so far. Basic background on the character is tribal half-orc that is following another half-orc because she thinks he will create a great song from his legend.

>Sheet
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=647732

>More info about the party
Three half orcs (warlord,barb, me)
The Centaur Paladin
Psion (I don't know which race)
Gnoll Alchemist (Vivisectionist)
Sorceress (Brass Dragon bloodline) also don't know the race
And maybe more, it looks like there will be two parties or members will get changed out as needed

>>44176385
Daemons want to extingusish all life.
Daemons are not demons.
Daemons are NE, Demons are CE.

>>44176299
Not normally, no. Ask your DM though, and they might allow you to scale the penalty higher for even faster crafting. I think it doesn't scale to higher penalties for quicker crafting for a reason, but if your DM wants the party to be able to craft some of their gear without providing tons of downtime, it could work (assuming your Spellcraft is high enough to handle it).

>>44176370
Race of their own.

>>44176419
>>44176436
Oh, carry on, then. Yugoloths are shitheads.

>>44176426
>myth-weavers

Holy shit, nostalgia flashbacks of ten years.

>>44176424
Just say
>I'm not going to lie to you, this class sucks utter ass, and I highly recommend you play something else
>You can still play your original class of you want, but know that it will be a massive debuff.
If he asks why, try and show him.

>>44176469
There's a better choice of sites to hold character sheets?

>>44176426
God that's a lot of players.
All I'll give you is honest advice to not bother.
Unless you're experienced with this kind of clown fiesta, it's more trouble than it's worth.

>>44176499
Yapcg

>>44176393
Go on.

>>44176525
The plan is to keep it five people at a time. Worst comes to worst I will at least have a character sheet ready for another game if it pops up

>>44176135
>>limited by moove speed
how? when you end your turn midair you just keep going next round. thats how it works to keep people from exceeding their movement speed with jump checks.

>the small +2 STR race got a -2 to everything on mounts and vehicles
>because they're going to get a racial archetype that turns cavaliers into utter juggernauts

>>44176565
>five people at a time
What if more show up? You just gonna kick 'em out for the session?
I dunno, man.
Hey, if it works for you, have fun.

>>44176570
>Faster Base Movement: Creatures with a base land speed above 30 feet receive a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10 feet of their speed above 30 feet. Creatures with a base land speed below 30 feet receive a –4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10 feet of their speed below 30 feet. No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round.
>No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round.

>>44176327
>He's got wishful thinking. You can't just come out of the gate saying "THIS IS TO RANK THE POWER LEVELS" and then say "But PS, it isn't intended to say that some classes suck"

Of course you can. The only classes that really "suck" are T5 classes. Equating power level to quality is the fault of the individual, T5 classes suck because their low power is a result of their low quality, rather than just because their power sucks.

>>44176606
Yes. You "stop" in midair and continue moving in the next round if you go over.

>>44176601
Game is being done over IRC and you're right. Hopefully everyone will act like an adult and not try to bulldoze their way in when another group is playing but yeah it's a risk

>>44176635
Zen archer sucks?

>>44176666
Yeah, kind of. It does a lot of damage and mitigates a ton of the monk's MAD, but it's still "I DO DAMAGE" and nothing else.

>>44176647
I really don't agree, but the wording is bad enough that it could go either way I suppose.

>>44176647
this.

>>44176724
well you are objectively wrong. making a skill check

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*NEW PLAYTEST ALERT*
*NEW PLAYTEST ALERT*
*NEW PLAYTEST ALERT*

The author of the DESTRUCTION SPHERE handbook for Spheres of Power has elected to release their handbook for open playtesting:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c3LPA0j7qKpLFP2lOr3I9X9VUpH8vOvs17pKmTCj36M/edit?usp=sharing

Known issues:
>Doomblade mechanics
>Elemental Scion: streamlined method for accessing class abilities without spellpoint cost
>Spellcrafting: DCs
>Improved elemental blade feat: interplay with bound energy arsenal trick (too much damage?)
>Bound Energy Arsenal Trick: interplay with improved elemental blade

Please leave comments in the Google document. I will see what can be done to drag this particular author to /pfg/ to entertain questions.

That said, it is very much worth noting that the direction the author is taking the Destruction sphere in is "Destruction simply is not that astounding for damage, so it should be used as a versatile battlefield control sphere instead."

I personally find this to be a disagreeable direction, since battlefield control is what half of the other spheres do, and Destruction really should be the iconic sphere for directly dismantling enemies in a variety of ways. Still, there is little that can be done about it.

Some of you might find the create-your-own-blast-type rules appealing.

>>44176370
>>44176468

Planescape's yugoloths (themselves formerly known as "daemons"), the Book of Fiends' "daemons," and Paizo's "daemons" are all entirely different species.

Has Agents of Evil leaked yet?

Why do people use Piranha Strike over Power Attack? Surely even for TWF Power Attack is better.

I probably should have checked in here before making my own thread, but can anyone here tell help with this? >>44176693

Anyone know the status on that one Ivalice Pathfinder conversion that's floating around the internet as just a race and prestige class list?

>>44176557
>a long time ago upon the surface of Abbadon, there was a crystal
>this Crystal was formed at the negative energy plane, where devil a and angels fought for it's control
>one crafty Angel dumped it upon Abbadon, where no-one dared look
>over time, the wet, gray earth beneath the Crystal began to shift and turn
>winds willed around it
>pyres sparked into existence
>tainted mud oozed forth
>until suddenly, they appeared
>5 powerful beings formed from the crystals pure evil
>they were Mammon, a gigantic slug of tainted water, who sought to slow mortal achievement till the world degenerated into savagery
>Lucifer, a whirlwind of ashen Fire who desired to watch mortal men lose themselves in insanity and mad passions
>Beezlebub, a colossal wasp formed of a solid thunderhead who worked towards mortals imploding upon themselves in selfish wastefullness
>Leviathan, a serpent formed of dank and lifeless clay and grave dirt, who seeks the demise of men through fruitless searches for satisfaction
>and Satan, a nightmarish tortilla formed of swirling nebulae, who brings ruin through a combination of all sin working together
>they quickly put their influence into the world, turning brother against brother and mother against son
>until the Oinodaemon appeared
>they sought to challenge this being, but found that the empty nihilism in it's darkened soul was immune to their power
>so they fled, and they burrowed underground
>they still lie in the core of Abbadon, devising new species of spawn and twisting hearts and minds

>>44176757
Okay, please show me the wording that say you just float in midair if your check exceeds your movespeed for the round instead of simply being unable to jump that far.

I'm not talking about if you jump your movespeed into the air as your max height, I mean having an acrobatics check of +1000 and moving upwards at 120 ft/round.

>>44176666
Zen Archer is one of the archetypes that pushes Monk to low t4 or high t5, depending on who you ask from. Though for some reason monk archetypes other than qinggong aren't mentioned in /pfg/ tier list any more.

>>44176917
Half of those are Archdevils already.

>>44176985
FUCK

>>44176917
Friendly reminder than negative energy is not "pure evil". An artifact formed from negative energy could still be evil though, I guess, so it's kind of moot.

Also,
>Satan, a nightmarish tortilla formed of swirling nebulae, who brings ruin through a combination of all sin working together
>a nightmarish tortilla
>tortilla

Also also, it'd be nicer if there was at least some elaboration on where the Oinodaemon came from in this proposed backstory.

>>44177123
I think the Oinodaemon was the first soul that ended up in Abaddon.

>>44176917
>>44177123
>>44177182
I think it makes more sense that the first evils were native to Abaddon, whereas the Oinodaemon and his ilk are the results of negative energy perverting things.

>>44177123
>Tortilla
I meant Gorilla, but Tortilla is probably better.

>>44176135
It's not limited by your max movespeed. It's limited by this:

>No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round.

I can run at four times my movement speed in a round. If I'm falling, I can move faster than that. Cheetahs can sprint, so they'd have an even faster maximum movement in a round. In practice, it means that you're effectively uncapped in high jumps, because high jump distance sucks.

>>44177123
Sceaduinar are evil. Your argument is invalid. (Paizo you fools!)

>>44177309
That doesn't mean negative energy is inherently evil. They don't have the evil subtype. From what I can gather, they're evil because they hate all life (and all unlife) due to being embodiments of entropy. And some unspecified shit that apparently went down with the jyoti.

>>44177239
Falling is not your movement though, it's physics and a separate rule that occurs when you're in the air without a means of flight. Also side note, falling speed is 500 ft/round.

I agree that if you spend a full round to "run" as a jump you'll get 4-5x your movespeed vertically in a round, but that's still not showing me why you would just hang out in the air and continue on your next turn instead of just being unable to jump any farther and drop back down on your next turn.

>>44177358
Take care lest we end up with the 'good necromancer' argument... again.

>>44177479
I'll do it I swear to god

>>44177358
>>44177479
Shenanigans like this are the reason I prefer 13th Age approach of negative energy harming everything and necromancy being morally ambiguous.

>>44177466
I'm a different anon. I just wanted to point out the issue with your post, there, since it makes the limit matter less. Someone with a 60ft fly speed can jump 240 feet, because that's there movement in a round, etc.

>>44177522
>>44177479
White Necromancer. Death Mage. 3pp has this covered.

>>44177466
>falling speed is 500 ft/round

Better feet than paladins.

>>44177522
Anyone got that screencap about D&D undead?

>>44176917
Okay I want to see more of this. Book of Fiends already has seven Exarchs. Only other change I would make is that the Exarchs were formed first and then the negaverse egg dropped in and hatched into Oinodemon.

>>44177598
Isn't that agreeing with what I said?

>Reading through Rasputin must die!
Why is this shit so based? And why didn't I know?

>>44177963
Is it just a rip-off of Vecna Must Die!? Because that setting is based.

Not as much as Ravenloft, but close.

>>44177992
Nah it's the fifth book of Reigns of Winter. The PCs get transported to WWI Russia and have to kill Rasputin.

>>44178045
So far this sounds like Vecna Must Die.

Does Rasputin lose a hand and an eye?

>>44178068
Nah but you gotta kill him three times because his soul is stitched to his body or something.
There are also fun monsters in there, like sentient mustard gas or animated tanks.

Overall looks really fun.

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Is there any way to get Intelligence to Profession instead of Wisdom?

>>44178308
I want to lick her armpits

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>>44178308

http://archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Brevoy%20Bandit

>Brevoy Bandit
>Source People of the River pg. 12 (Amazon)
>Category Region
>Requirement(s) Mivon
>You fled the persecution of Brevoy authorities and wound up in Mivon. Whether or not you are guilty of your alleged crimes, you seek to build a new life amid new neighbors. Choose one Profession skill and one ability score other than Wisdom. You add that ability score’s modifier in addition to your Wisdom modifier on checks with the chosen Profession skill.

This is an addition, not a replacement. I demonstrate what can be done with it using the alternate Profession rules here: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/42386414/#42389707

A Brevoy Bandit could use, say, Wisdom *and* Strength for Profession (baker, courtesan, gardener, librarian, merchant, midwife, or scribe) checks.

>>44176759
>"Destruction simply is not that astounding for damage, so it should be used as a versatile battlefield control sphere instead."

Damn, that sounds like one of those things that might have had a decent chunk of thought put into it but seems very hard to justify to someone at first glance.

I also think it heavily raises the chance of Destruction becoming a trap option: think of a new player coming to spheres and thinking 'I just want to blow stuff up' : They'll take the very obvious-sounding option of Destruction, then take all the things in it that do damage, and then they'll be bad because
>You're not actually supposed to use Destruction for destruction!

>>44178481
FOREWORD
“You think destructive magic is just about burning your enemies to death, don't you? You wield a fireball and feel unstoppable. Let me tell you right now, that right there is the heart of the wizard's arrogance that annoys everyone so much, especially me. No matter how good at it you are, you will never cut down your enemies faster than a skilled swordsman. You're not supposed to.
“Think like a wizard, idiot. The magic of destruction is so much more than blasting things. Have you ever blocked an enemy's advance with a wall of air, isolating them from their support? Or grounded a dragon so your melee allies could make quick work of it? Burning your enemies to a crisp is always satisfying, but the best magic-users know how to cripple their enemies at the same time, or control the shape of the battlefield to give their allies an advantage.
“Destruction is its own form or art, apprentice. By the time I'm done with you, you'll never look at a fireball the same way again.” - From the introductory lecture by Archmage Throros of the Imperial Warmage Academy to an incoming class of apprentices.
That's what this book is for. Not only does it expand the options available to a dedicated destruction user, it also gives tools to help them really make the most of their magic, and help game masters to vary encounters, modifying old creatures, to use destruction magic tactically. It also gives tools to those dedicated to a particular theme to be able to remain true to their theme without finding themselves useless in an uncomfortable number of situations.

>>44169250
Ifrit knight-chandler specializing in Elemental Flux, particularly the fire aspect of it. Nine-ring broadsword, heavy darkwood shield, and no armor because the Defense Bonus rule grants her +5 AC, beating out a magic chain shirt (and mithral breastplate is out of her reach for now).

>>44178580
That assuages the problem a bit, but I still think it's not the best of ideas.

I mean, I love battlefield control as much as the next guy, but this is pushing it.
>Hey guys I want to be a blaster sorceror
>No, evocation and direct damage spells are a waste, magic is mainly good for utility and control
>Oh okay

>What about this thing called the Destruction Sphere, then? Surely that has to be good for blasting-
>Nope, still better for battlefield control
>Oh

It's like, the one actual appropriate chance they had to make a blasting option, and they decided to defer to 'tradition'.

tfw the best magic blaster is still the mystic

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>>44176759

Unfortunately, it seems that the author of the Destruction handbook is shy about having "4chan in [their] inbox," so they will not be entertaining questions on the Destruction sphere handbook here.

>>44178481

The Destruction sphere *can* be quite effective at destroying the opposition with pure damage, but it takes a considerable degree of optimization (e.g. incanter specialization, sorcerer Orc bloodline, Destruction staff, Mage's Tattoo, Spell Specialization [Destructive Blast]), and all of the optimization that goes into such a thing could be placed into another sphere to push said other sphere into absurd heights.

The author of the Destruction sphere handbook has chosen to take the sphere into a "battlefield control with incidental damage" sphere, which is a perfectly valid direction, although not one I personally agree with. This direction is impossible to change now, so all of us interested in Spheres will simply have to live with Destruction being forevermore consigned to "battlefield control + incidental damage" short of heavy, heavy optimization.

>>44178707

>tfw the best magic blaster is still the mystic

I hate to advertise it again, but an Elemental Flux + Solar Wind psychic armory makes for an astonishingly effective "at-will elemental blaster."

What's the best way to houserule to make martials good? Can I just clean up feat tax by making a lot of feats free, and maybe even the playing field by banning spells like fly and such?

>>44178737

>psychic armory
It does, definitely. I like that the Living Legend shoots aoes at later levels with its mind blade in Archmage form, though. Not nearly the same level of damage, but still cool.

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How would you go about making Investigator who doesn't use Alchemy or any other substitute casting progression? The archetypes for this look so fucking bad that they are roughly equivalent to a normal Investigator with alchemy who chooses not to use it at all.

Is this the case, and if yes what would you homebrew?

>>44178802
By banning good spells, you start to have trouble with a lot of bestiary monsters (like dragons). I'd rather you not ban spells, but instead make access to magic easier for everyone who doesn't already have it.

Can Unseen servant read?
I had an idea about using explosive runes on pieces of paper ahead of time and then having the little bastard however to my foe and shouting the order to read the paper

>>44178802
Have you heard of our lord and savior Dreamscarred Press?

>>44178882
A lot of their stuff seems a little involved, and I don't want every martial I have to be fluffed as a follower of a specific martial art. If it makes martials like 4E martials I will take a look at it.

>>44178802
No, not really. It's a problem with the classes themselves, the feats, the christmas tree problem (Which the Innate Bonus System doesn't really do all that much to fix), and a bunch of problems of casters just being too strong.

If you allow Initiators from DSP, then your martials will be at least decent. They have a playtest doc out with 6-th level initiator archetypes, which can reasonably put up to 9th level initiating without any serious issues, and honestly helps out ones like the Rogue a lot.

You can ask people to tone back their stuff with Wizards and other T1 casters, and generally put in the usual gentlemans agreement of "If you can use it, the enemies can use it, and people will respond reasonably to anything you do. If you get known for routinely doing some huge thing that fucks people up, world WILL get out if there's ever even a single survivor.

>>44178907
You don't have to have them fluffed as any sort of follower of a martial art. There's no reason to have it be some sort of anime power-name shouting thing.

Shit works well, man, though be aware that at really low levels it can put out surprising damage. Granted, if you're starting at level 1, you're doing it Wrong anyway, so...

>>44178855
I wouldn't. The alchemy is the only thing that makes the Investigator even remotely playable. The fuck do you want to be? All the archetypes cover different flavors of "guy who is bad at fighting and still is dumb enough to investigate with skill checks".

>>44178907
Well, restrict initiating to the "highly trained" or prodigal warriors. The ones that are exceptional at what they do. A Warrior is someone who might get into barroom brawls. A fighter is a guy with a little bit of training in how to use weapons and armor. A Warder is a hero who can go out and solo a linnorm.

>>44178907
>I don't want every martial I have to be fluffed as a follower of a specific martial art
Just refluff; erase all the historical tradition from the techniques and just treat them as techniques. It doesn't even involve coming up with anything new to replace it.

Ie go from "I can do this trick with my sword because it's a skilled technique that's been refined for decades under the Scarlet Throne fighting style" to "I can do this trick with my sword because I'm cool".

I'm a sorcerer with stormborn bloodline is it gud?

>>44178907
>4e martials
>powers system, cool and unique abilities all day, basic attacks less emphasized
It does

>>44179013
Sounds good enough for me. Will definitely take a look at it then, it is free on the SRD after all.

>>44179031
Fair warning; the SRD section for DSP stuff is badly edited. If you can pick up the PDF, do so.

>>44179031
I'd actually wait for PoW Expanded to come out, since PoW 1 had a lot of problems that they later learned from.

Do take a look at Path of War on the srd though.

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>GM likes to make custom items and gear, things that accentuate a character's core skills and abilities.
>PCs often get specialized gear to fit with their characters and offer plot hooks.
>My Warlord has no need for any of the special gear she received thus far and gave them to the other party members.

Y'know, I'm not even mad. It's nice to not have to rely on special tools to do my job as the tactical war leader.

>>44179070
>>44179031
Path of War is mostly fine for actual play, just be aware that you should probably look at the content and give monsters options for like Int-mod in maneuvers and maybe a stance

>>44179077
>party fights vampires
>a cord of stubborn resolve shows up in the loot afterward, but is tainted with negative energy because its previous wearer turned undead, and as a result doesn't prevent fatigue/exhastion
>dangle potential side quest hook in front of the barbarian by specifically mentioning that it could be purified
>party decides to pawn it off

I mean, if they want the coinage more, that's fine, but it's a little disappointing. Also just because it's worth mentioning, the reason I didn't just give them a normal, fully-functional cord of stubborn resolve was because it was too valuable of an item for the PCs' current WBL.

>>44179231
I feel that's a really solid way to make people earn their stuff. Specifically questing for a thing makes it feel much more impactful.

Of course, my character grows symbionts from the Eberron conversion for the party's use. Magic Item crafters tend to be a bit weird in that regard.

>>44176098
Why don't Psychic get this spell...

>>44179267
That's the feeling I was hoping to elicit. I figured that even in the meantime while the item is still tainted, it would be useful for the barbarian because of the CON-boost it provides (IIRC, the barbarian had no belt slot item at the time, or at least not a very good one). I never actually asked the barbarian's player out of character why she didn't take the cord, but I think I remember her reacting in character by tossing it away when I described it as "occasionally crackling with sparks of negative energy" so maybe she assumed it would hurt her if she put it on, like some sort of cursed item.

>>44179267
Speaking of magic item creation, how do people in /pfg/ handle it when someone wants to play a magical item crafter? Do they just let it go with no stipulations? Add in some requirements? Tell people not to play that sort of character?

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>>44178455

>Brevoy Bandit
>Wisdom *and* Strength
>Midwife

I can't not love that mental image.

>>44179503
Who cares? If they have the feats and the gold, go for it. Most people that are really good at making magical items are pretty shit at using them.

Does anyone have the mutation tables for waters of Lamashtu? I cant remember where I saw them.

>>44176468
PF daemons are specifically not yugoloths.

Yugoloths are all about self serving evil behaviour, and don't really care about anything but themselves. That's why they're so mercenary.

They're essentially selfishness embodied

>>44176499
My preference is google drive.

>>44179503
I play it fairly loose, and use the item crafting rules as are. You can try to craft whatever you have the right feat for, you can ignore any prereqs except the crafting feat by raising the DC, etc, etc. I allow custom items, but only with my own approval.

I don't like playing as an item crafter where the DM says, "No, you can't craft just any item because your character has to learn the item exists first." or "I won't allow you to ignore required spells for crafting items.", so I don't force the people I'm running for to play with a DM that says that either.

>>44176499
charactersheet.co.uk
google docs
google sheets
dropbox an autofill PDF (the simplest but the worst for customization)
dropbox a txt document

>>44179609
> "I won't allow you to ignore required spells for crafting items."

That's the only one I hate. It's retarded to think that just adding a virtually negligible +5 would let a crafter imbue something with a ridiculously powerful spell. I don't force the player to know it, but he better fucking hiring someone that does.

>>44179774
>>44179609
Couldn't you just pay a little extra money for a scroll that has the spell?

>>44179555
Was this ever a thing or am I going mad?
I can't seem to find it anywhere, there were a bunch of d100 tables.

I needs help building a level 6 Supernaturalist Druid. 20 Point-Buy. no 3PP. Looking to fill both Battlefield Controller with melee on the side.

How does this looks?
Race : Half-Orc (mostly fluff but Overlook Mastermind racial traits might be fun...)
Ability Score : STR 8 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 18 CHA 10
Feat : Weapon Finesse, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Craft Wondrous Item (if no one else pick it up)
Paranormal Scholar Spell :
Level 3: Mirror Image
Level 6: Haste

Should I pick Domain or Animal Companion? Or just go in the middle and pick up Feather Domain + Boon Companion?

>>44179838
drakainia?

>>44179806
If you're a caster, and capable of casting the spell, absolutely.

But so many people go for the Fighter with Master Craftsman feat shit where they don't know any magic at all and use the "hurr hurr says +5 I don't need to know magic to make shit" route

>>44179872
>Domain or Animal Companion?
At levels 10+ the domains are better. At levels 1-9, the animal is better. That's from a mechanical standpoint; go for the animal if you don't expect to get above mid levels win your current game, and it'll help you survive rusty dagger shanktown.

>>44179872
Domain.

Animal Companions are just a shitty liability that the DM will take advantage of. Summoning shitloads of animals that are essentially companions that you can throw into the meatgrinder, however, cannot be stopped.

>>44179873
I think it may have been something similar to her table.

>>44175761
Diplomacy means fuck all when combat actually starts though.

But I do agree the Bard is far from bad combat, they make decent but far from the best archers, and decent controllers with whip + true strike. Not the best, but able to contribute decently.

>>44179774
>>44179806
Flavor-wise, I tend to treat ignoring required spells as your character's advanced knowledge of how magic works allowing them to figure out a work-around to not having the spell, either in the form of a different way of making the enchantment work or simply by figuring out some pieces of that spell (not enough to cast it but enough for the enchantment to work). Spellcraft is, after all, the "craft" of spells. I have a slightly harder time accepting the idea of ignoring other things like minimum caster level, race/class/skill point requirements, or needed metamagic feats, but even still I allow these sorts of prereqs to be ignored and hope that a DM I'm playing under will do the same.

>>44176424
It is if the GM is capable of balancing encounters properly then they're fine. Granted the lower tier classes are gonna need some favor in regard to this but it's what the GM should be doing anyway. Give the rogue something to steal, give the monk a reason to use all that movespeed etc.

I'm coming up with a bunch of possible build ideas so I'll likely have something ready at any given moment. Suggestions for other build ideas?

Currently have built:
Unchained monk
Reach sanctified slayer inquisitor
Reach cleric
Admixture wizard

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Don't hide it from me /pfg/
Tell me about your Homebrew Races

I have 2 free points. What's more valuable in melee as a light-armored dude: 12 Dex/10 Con, or 10 Dex/12 Con?

Playing an Investigator if that matters.

>>44180132
Dex.

>>44180121
I made a bunch from suggestions of /pfg/ itself over the span of a few days, but have since lost the pastebin links.

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Sup /pfg/. In a couple weeks, I'm going to be running a Pathfinder one-shot adventure for my family, pretty much just to introduce them to tabletop gaming. I've never been a GM before, though, and I had a couple questions about how I should handle things.

1) My family members have chosen to play a bard, a barbarian, and a wizard. I'm starting them at level 5. Will they be strong enough on their own, or should I play an NPC cleric travelling with their party so they don't die? I'm aware of the dangers of GMPCs, but I've played with a DM who did them very, very well, so I'm pretty confident I can copy him and do the same. Is it worth it? I was also considering killing this NPC near the end for dramatic effect.

2) My mom is playing the bard, and she has shown essentially no interest in doing all the work required to create her character, so I'm doing her build for her. This sucks for me, because I have literally never played in a game with a bard before, and know essentially nothing about the class. She'll probably want me to choose feats and spells for her, too. Can anyone guide me in the right direction for choosing that stuff? I'm not allowing 3rd party stuff, by the way.

3) Also related to the bard problem. From reading their SRD page, it seems like one of their main gimmicks is being super adept at knowledge checks. What should I do as a GM if she rolls really well on a knowledge check about something that I, in real life, don't know/didn't plan that much about? Should I make shit up? Should I just make sure to be super prepared and print out all the knowledge check tables for every monster I plan to throw at them, and have extensive backstories for even random red herrings?

4) Is there anything in particular that you recommend having on hand as a reference for a new GM?

Sorry for all the questions, guys. I tend to get pretty stressed out whenever I attempt doing something new, and this is no exception.

>>44179907
We're starting at level 6, so I don't have to worry about rusty dagger shanktown anymore.

>>44179913
No standard action Summon is kinda sad though.

Which Domain should I go for? Currently consider taking Earth (Cave) for those 3 delicious Create Pit spells.

>>44180140
ty

>>44180184

If you're using a monster, you should probably have it's page open up for quick access to provide knowledge information.

>>44179966
>Making Bard a damage dealer in combat
Fucking Why?

You have CHA as your highest stat. Exploit that.

Bards can intimidate the shit out of everything to the point they'd rather run than fight.
Augment that fear with the aid of illusions and buffs.

On the other hand, you can use your charm as well but not as effectively as a well placed dazzling display+ disheartening display

Bards are battlefield controllers. They are effective buff casters AND enemy nerfers. (Mind you, not as good at crowd control like the wizard)

>>44180149
Was this the latest list?

http://pastebin.com/fgGz1Vev

>>44180121
Jyoti
Bodaks
some planetouched nobody gives a shit about
half sikhal tieflings

>>44180132
Con, for sure. The single point of AC will be useful at first but become less relevant as the game gets into higher levels, but in my opinion the extra HP will be more significant. I mean, honestly, I'd want a CON of at least 14 to start with, but just be sure to boost it with a belt or Ioun stone if you can. It's also good for fort saves, which are more dangerous than reflex saves usually, and for stablizing. I guess DEX is important for a lot more skills, though.

>>44180220
I unfortunately only have the rulebooks on my laptop. Isn't it considered rude to sit there with my computer during the game? I was honestly just going to write down everything I needed in a notebook.

>>44179966
But combat shouldn't start in the first place with Diplomacy. Or you could be Dragon Herald and use diplomacy as full-round action.

>>44180121
Dragon blooded.
Several varieties of genasi.
And then several monsters converted to races, often in an as needed basis.

>>44180261

Why would it be? It's only rude if all you do is browse the internet or facebook during game. A laptop for the srd and pdfs are immeasurably beneficial for the DM to have easy access to.

>>44178802
You do your job properly and plan your encounters to their strengths more.

If you feel feats are too taxing you can actually help them out by giving them some for free. Believe it or not it's not that big of a deal to give out Weapon Focus or Point Blank Shot for free.
Also allow retrainning, sometimes iron will isn't a good idea, sometimes the melee fighter who knows he'll be up against mobile opponents will need to retrain into archer feats fluffed as archery lessons or something.

Banning spells is beyond the stupidest fucking thing anyone ever does. It doesn't make the martial better it makes everyone else shittier. Give the martial a fucking winged shield or some potions or a griffon if they need to fly.

>>44175726
Protip : Inspire Courage apply to the Bard himself
Protip : Inspire Courage bonus to attack and damage are competence bonus. While lots of Bard good buff spells are morale bonus.

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>>44180284

How dragon-blooded we talking here?

>people actually think you can reason out of combat against your standard dungeon trash

>>44180290
Alright, I'll consider that. Thanks.


Someone want to address my other questions perhaps? I still have no idea what the hell I'm doing with bards.

>>44180121
Animal folk that range from anime cat ears to full on bears. Most are under 4ft, filling the 'short person' role of the setting.

>>44180149
I managed to find them.

http://pastebin.com/fgGz1Vev

For reference, here's the thread on the archives.
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43945013/#q43950334

>>44180233
> intimidate
> Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

>>44180121
I made three different playable races.

Nachtlings, (+2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Con) which are blind batfolk humanoids who have blindsense and scent and a glide speed.

Cretiis, (+2 str) which are crablike humanoids who have three fingered pincers, a natural armor bonus and other racial features like their pincer grip granting a bonus to disarm and a bonus against being disarmed.

Dryads, (+2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2 Str) which are small fae humanoids associated with the dryad myths, such as spell-like abilities and a captivating song.

>>44180235
>>44180352
Shiiiit thanks guys, I thought I'd lost them.

>>44180265
Not everything is gonna listen or care about what you have to say.

>>44180121
I'm just now realizing that I'm relatively boring about homebrewed races. My group tends to stick to humans or near-humans, or unique individuals of such that have weird and exceptional traits.

>>44180121
I'm trying to make a race inspired by giraffes, but i don't want just a humanoid with a long neck or giraffe head and i don't want it to be a centaur style thing. So far I'm thinking of maybe a gorilla style "front legs are also manipulators" thing.

>>44180363
>Not knowing how to increase shaken to frightened to panic.

>>44180370
>http://pastebin.com/fgGz1Vev
Oh hey, I remember you.
Did you ever finish up the ones you said you were interested in last time?

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>>44180121

I really, really wish Hobgoblins and Humans were compatible, because I could see some crazy eugenics going on to engineer the perfect soldier.

Wait, this actually makes me curious; why *don't* the Hobgoblins have eugenics programs? Surely a race as Lawful Evil giga-Nazi as the Hobgoblins would have systems in place to engineer supersoldiers.

>>44180121
Never homebrewed a player race, but my settings usually make it necessary to homebrew a lot of monsters.

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>>44180416
>implying that hobgoblins would ever get especially fleshed-out fluff, compared to other races

>>44180121
>implying I've ever made a homebrew race
>implying I could ever make anything original

>>44180416
Then they wouldn't bother cross-blooding with humans then.

They'd go for those with daemon, dragon or aberrant in their blood.

>>44180416
Who says that don't?
Who says they didn't?

>>44180461
Or with oni.
Actually they do breed with oni. The result is called kanabo.

>>44180121
Imagine a cross between a Wolf and a Snake, with a culture that's kind of a mix between Iroquois and post-diaspora Jews. I'm currently working on revising thier stats though

Also Farapidaan and Mothkin.

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>>44180453

But that's the problem, Hobgoblins are pretty much the *perfect* mook race! They're smart, they're meaty, they're medium-sized, and they're the right kind of Imperialist evil to make a campaign around! Why aren't we getting a good fleshing out of these people? Why aren't there more of them? These guys should be swarming around in the thousands, just aching to go off and conquer some Inner Sea nation.

>>44180461

It could be like a twisted, militarized version of Mengkare's Glorious Endeavor, the LE to Mengkare's LG.

>>44180466

All I know is hobgoblins have assigned breeding partners.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/dinosaur/deinonychus

Would fighting 3 of these be too much for a party of 3 level 5 characters and 1 level 4? I kinda suck at CR math.

>>44180523
>Why aren't there more of them?
I'm reminded of Eberron, where they actually had a continent-spanning empire until some planar entities kicked their shit in. Then humans moved in and settled on top of the ruins.

I miss playing in Eberron.

>>44180530
Depends. Whats the party? Because having a druid, hunter or bard could actually make the encounter easy provided they're smart enough to just use handle animal.

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>>44180416
They probably did at one point. The result was hobgoblins.

>>44180453
Eberron came the closest. See the Legacy of Dhakaan trilogy.

>>44180461
Too many vulnerabilities when extraplanar bloodlines are used.

>>44180530
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/dinosaur/deinonychus

>CR3 a piece
>normally 1 would take a party of level 3 characters to kill it

Ehhh. 3 is doable. It's only dangerous if they all end up going in a row for init and all target the same guy and rush him/full-attack fuck him to death. Not that likely.

>>44180121
I made a half-troll race.

Think Orc as a playable race but with the benefit of regeneration, but the downside of being downright vulnerable to fire and acid.

>>44180530
Probably not. Due to power creep in Pathfinder CR+1 is actually pretty easy.

>>44180523
>Why aren't there more of them?

Because Paizo doesn't know a good idea if it came right up and bit 'em in the ass.

Hobgoblins are solid "bad guy" soldiers, they're probably the best out there, and Paizo just reserves them as the occasional merc.

>>44180566
I'm the person with all the questions above. We have a bard, barbarian, and wizard, and I'll probably insert a cleric that's one level lower than everyone.

None of them have any experience with tabletop gaming at all, so I would always assume they won't do the smart thing.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nx-o8VAjhUwh3nnfzDQT-JA5eFLnN_BZJiBitGjBMDg/edit#

Everyone read this

>>44180523
>>44180565
>>44180577

And now I'm missing Eberron as well. I was DMing a game in that setting up until September, when my school schedule killed my ability to sustain it.

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>>44180416

>>44180121
I'd like to make a medium sized Kobold species that are a little bit closer to their draconic heritage than their smaller sized counterparts.

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>>44180630
>Those racial traits

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>>44180184
o-or ignore me that's cool too

>>44180630
>+2 Dex and +2 Con
>A bonus to flanking every 5 levels
>Poison Use

This class just demands to be rolled as either the Cavalier, the Hunter or the Grenadier Alchemist.

>>44180610
Man, I wish I could coerce you into running it over Roll20 or skype something so I could take part. It's been way too long since I played in eberron, and too many GMs aren't willing to allow the converted stuff.

>>44180407
Sorry, those were the last I did. I've been getting end-of-term workload and exams in addition to getting sick every couple weeks.

>>44180603
You're screwed.
Hilariously speaking, a fighter or really, any class wearing heavy armor would make short work of a deinonychus.

>>44180744
Well, given that my schedule ate this one and I'd be restarting it next semester if not for the fact that it's still eaten...

Roll20 games are alright. I prefer theater of the mind in irc, since roll20 maps are a hassle.

>>44180735
Poison use is for half-goblins. Half-hobgoblins' alternate trait is trade the flanking bonus for the ability to not get slowed down by armor or gear.

>>44180770
Wait, I'm screwed as the GM, or my party is screwed?

>>44180416
>The Cunning and Discipline of a Hobgoblin
>The Strength and Ferocity of a Bugbear
>The Stealth and Breeding of a Goblin
>The Magical Potential of a Barghest
Why would the perfect goblin soldier include non-goblinoid races like humans?

>>44180303
Balanced vs Tieflings dragon blooded. With a bloodline for each major dragon type in the campaign.

>>44180184
>>44180687
Ughhhh there's so many words.

1) No DMPC. Just sandbag early encounters if they're that bad, or force them to do a Bar Fight at the beginning of the game like a combat tutorial of sorts. Break the 4th wall as the DM to explain rollan dice and SHOW them how it works. This is better than a DMPC just saving their ass. Teach a man to fish etc.

2) Don't waste your time. If your mom doesn't wanna build the character, she's not going to give a flying fiddly fuck about the mechanics or what they do. Just simplify for her.

Literally write some spells on a piece of paper with a description next to them of what they do. Tell her she can play music and do shit. Essentially, your mom is going to say "I DO THIS" and roll a d20. Accommodate her. She is your mother.

3) Lie. Always lie. Your players don't actually care, and you don't either if you don't know/didn't plan for it. Improvise nigga.

4) Make yourself a cheat sheet for basic mechanics. That's all. Remember - your family does not know how much HP or AC something should have. They do not understand how or why the mechanics work. And that's fine. There's no need to chastise them for it or etll them they did something wrong. You're probably better trimming most/ALL of the fat and mechanics until they're comfortable and express a desire to have more depth.

>>44180812
Your party is.
I dunno how experienced your party is, but eventually most players start noticing patterns with monsters to the point its almost as simple as using rock-paper-scissors to beat em.

>High AC? Probably poor saves
>High Saves? Probably poor HP
>High HP? Probably poor AC

>>44180835
>The psionic potential of a Blue

>>44180781
>Spoiler
I hear you. it just makes for a good chat room, I find that lets you do things at an appropriate rate and has the ability to roll. even without the combat map, Pathfinder can be hilariously fun.

>>44179530
Isn't that how it works in real life though?

>>44180416
My hobgoblin are like Andromeda nietzcheans crossed with something else (Either ancient Mongols or ancient China)

>Actually start following "creatures are soft cover" rules
>Realize in 95% of situations the melee guys of your own team are providing soft cover to the enemy
Is there a feat or something you can take so allies don't count as cover? My players are constantly fucking standing in the way of their ranged team members. They never ever try and flank around or anything to get out of the way.

Do the Helpful and Fools for Friends traits stack?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/helpful-combat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/second-darkness/fools-for-friends

>>44180523
Fuck of I know why there's not more hobgoblin stuff. Hobgoblin are one of the best fantasy races. I also really like cutback, but they have a lot of similarities

>>44180871
No. Blues are an inferior race that seeks to corrupt and destroy goblinkind with plays that feature goblin-human romance! Can't you see they are using their position as secret rulers of all goblin society who benefit from all our hard work to destroy the very same society they apparently rule and benefit from?

>>44180899
I honestly only bother enforcing that with a group that knows the system. It's frustrating as hell for new players.

>>44180899
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-precise-shot-combat---final

>>44180906
yes, one changes the bonus and one provides a bonus to the bonus (regardless of the base bonus).