Just finished reading.
>The Imperial Fists are wiped out
>Literally every last one of them is killed.
Hahahahahahahaha.
Sons of Dorn confirmed shit.
And this is new news how?
>>44150347
This.
It's been hinted time and again that First Founding chapters have been wiped out and then replaced. Politically and spiritually, the First Founding chapters are too important to be permanently wiped out.
>>44150365
>It's been hinted time and again that First Founding chapters have been wiped out and then replaced.
No it's not.
>>44150365
lolwut
>>44149229
>40k endtimes confirmed
>>44150494
>Book takes place in 32K
>End Times
Wat...
>>44150365
Care to come up with some examples to support that statement?
>>44150559
Blood Angels.
They have been wiped out several times.
>>44150576
Prove it.
>>44150601
Read like ANY of the recent Blood Angels Codexs moron. No one is going to spoon feed your stupidity.
>>44150601
That one time when they functionally got wiped out in a Space Hulk. Then there is the other time when they were again functionally wiped out by Abaddon.
>>44150630
>Read like ANY of the recent Blood Angels Codexs moron.
I play Blood Angels.
They have never been wiped out.
>>44150630
Support your statement with evidence instead of complaining about spoonfeeding, dolt. You made a statement, now it's on you to produce supporting evidence.
>>44150634
That's twice, explicitly less than "several", but more importantly neither of those times were they wiped to a man.
>>44150634
>That one time when they functionally got wiped out in a Space Hulk. Then there is the other time when they were again functionally wiped out by Abaddon.
Neither of those time resulted in them being wiped out. They were severely depleted, but not ripped out by the root.
>544.M32 Imperial Fists wiped out
>546.M32 Imperial Fists are part of the strike force that kills the rogue grand master of assassins.
They've done it again fellas!
>>44150670
Losing that amount of marines is a death sentence to a chapter (See Astral Knights). The Blood Angels got special treatment and were rebuild from the ground up by the Imperium.
So goes to the Imperial Fists.
>>44150699
same goes*
>>44150695
The High Lords are pretty good.
I am getting really fucking tired of seeing the Imperial Fists get killed all the damn time. They are a competent chapter, and I hate to see them get this treatment only to make other chapters look better.
>>44150715
Remember that one time when the Imperial Fists lost like three entire companies to the Necrons? Fun times.
>>44150695
If by that time they're rebuilt using living Marines from IF Successors, it's entirely plausible.
>>44150715
>They are a competent chapter
No they're not.
They're just shit, and now it's been revealed that they aren't even really a first founding Chapter, because those Imperial Fists all died.
Hahahaha.
>>44150735
Now, now. Losing three companies to Necrons is nothing to be ashamed of. Just a bad day at work.
>>44150695
The High Lords are covering up the extinction of the Fists, so they might just append them to the record later.
>>44150699
>Losing that amount of marines is a death sentence to a chapter that doesn't have entire storehouses of geneseed on mars with the explicit purpose of being used to found new chapters (See Astral Knights)
Chapters with unknown foundings and no pedigree beyond a really phyrric victory get kicked to the curb when they need extra geneseed. Because they don't know which kind to give them.
The Crimson Fists survived their apocalypse, after all.
>>44150743
isn't the seed of the second founding chapters still the same by the 32millennium?
I mean, how many generations of marines there have been since they were split from the legion?
>>44149229
Losing to a Waagh bigger than the one Horus fought to get his warmaster title too isn't anything to cry about.
Can someone do a synopsis that isn't just:
>Imperial Fists BTFO
>What's new? Kek
>>44150686
They exist because their successors had to donate marines to save them. They would have died out without those fresh bodies. They were essentially wiped out.
>>44150664
>>44150658
See >>>44150634
This is like, common knowledge fluff guys.
>>44150915
>>44150931
>This is like, common knowledge fluff guys.
The fact they were never wiped out is common knowledge.
A lot died, but some remained, and from this they regrew.
The Fists meanwhile were totally wiped out.
>>44150931
eyo keep on reading matey ->>44150670
"ooh they almost got wiped out guys" is quite a bit different from actually getting wiped out.
>>44150955
Hard to run when you're walled off
>>44150695
>546.M32 Imperial Fists are part of the strike force that kills the rogue grand master of assassins
Yeah sure, the Grand Master was killed and the people in charge have nothing to do with him. Wake up ovespulum
>>44150903
Imperial Fists were fighting transdimensional bug monsters when suddenly an Ork "World Engine" and its support Armada exit through a Wormhole near the planet.
The Ork World Engine teleports an entire moon inside the planet utterly obliterating the planet and killing all who did not escape.
>>44150832
Could've just taken geneseed from the Imperial Fist stock at Terra,or from their own gene-vaults.
>>44150903
They go to fight some shitty vermin xenos, and then basically all die to the incidental effect of an Ork deathstar phasing into reality.
Then all the Fist reinforcements show up and go to the planet where they lost contact with the Fists, and then the Ork Deathstar appears and the rest of them die.
The end.
>>44150979
>Prophet o' da WAAAAAGH! using Tellyporta teknology to deadly effect
>Fists get rekt
Dan Abnett, master of plot weaving.
>>44150986
that too
I don't really see what's the fuss should be about
>>44151030
I must say, I'm impressed by the edited title on the side too, but none is laughing there
>>44151038
>I don't really see what's the fuss should be about
They all died.
Their continuity came to an end.
You can clone them, but the original Fists are all gone.
The novel demonstrates this quite well, the culture of the Imperial Fists is entirely different to the NuFists that will eventually replace them.
>>44150979
>>44150991
Thanks. So the Orks are slaughter?
>>44149229
>yfw GW re-releases the Sentinels of Terra supplement
>All the model showcase pictures have had the Imperial Fists edited out of them
>All the fluff is rewritten to say the Imperium lost whenever the Fists were supposed to turn up
>The rules section is just blank
>>44151038
While getting wiped out is a bit of an issue, it could be argued that first founding chapters are the ones most capable of taking a hit like that. They've definitely got the most geneseed stocked up, and in M32 I immagine the Crusade/Heresy stock is still there. Hell, considering the size of the Legions, there's probably crusade era geneseed stored there in M41 as well. Secondly the Imperium as a whole has a vested interest in rebuilding them.
>>44151070
It's the name of the Beast, or one of them.
It was also the name of an Imperial Fist Captain.
>>44150979
What about Fists on the Phalanx?
Also, as >>44150875 says, the Beast had an utterly insane Waaagh (iirc it's the biggest after Ghaz's) so losing to it - even if it seriously jobbing - is hardly that shameful
>>44151085
>>All the fluff is rewritten to say the Imperium lost whenever the Fists were supposed to turn up
So nothing changes?
>>44151058
original marines are a rare thing in all chapters, generations come and pass, plus traditions are hard to vanish: the successor chapters are very likely to have recreated everything as it was considering only 2 millennia passed since the division.
are they same? no, sure, they're dead. are they not imperial fists? yes, the geneseed's trait are all there, the focus of the army and its traditions are there, what's the deal but a trolling attempt on /tg/?
>>44151058
I seriously doubt they were wiped out to a man, considering their fleet assets and various other postings. You could probably assemble a couple of squads from those guys. The Blood Angels rebuilt from similar numbers.
>>44151119
>yes
fucked up here but you get it.
you know, these Ork fellas arnt too bad, ya know?
>>44151119
>original marines are a rare thing in all chapters, generations come and pass
Yes, but there there is continuity. The Imperial Fists were wiped clean.
>the successor chapters are very likely to have recreated everything as it was considering only 2 millennia passed since the division.
Nope, the Imperial Fists were shown to have a very distinct culture that neither the Black Templars, Crimson Fists or the Replacement Fists are shown to share.
They're not the real Imperial Fists. Just like a clone of you is not you. You may be near identical biologically speaking, but your mind is yours alone.
>>44151122
>I seriously doubt they were wiped out to a man, considering their fleet assets and various other postings.
Their fleet was trashed too.
All their reserves were called in.
At that time the Fists had a sacred charge to hold the walls of Terra.
Even the Marines that manned the walls went and died.
>>44151149
>Perturabo got c ucked by an Ork
>>44151205
Truly the masters of self sacrifice.
>>44151088
Hell, at that point wouldn't their successor chapters be Marines from the Imperial Fist Legion?
If so, couldn't they just rename one of the Successors? They were Imperial Fists longer than they were Emperors Hands or Civilizing Fingers at this point.
>>44151260
Plot twist: the venerable Chapter of the Emperor's Wanking Hand became the 41st Millennium Imperial Fists.
>>44151205
Be that one death watch fist who returns home
>Ah hello....?
>Hello chapter master
>Serf report to the pain glove, for your failure to identify rank
>m-my lord?
>PAIN GLOVE!
But yeah. Wow.
So they were charged with standing on the palace walls, which they haven't left... Why did Dorn die in first BC again?
I seriously doubt this is anything but an elaborate trolling as I know someone who read the book and told me that there are between 120 and 150 fist surviving and the preview of the 4th book mention the fists.
>The Beast Arises VI: Echoes of the Long War by David Guymer (May 2016):
Paralysed by the continued ork invasion of Imperial space, the rulers of Terra continue to fight among themselves. Finally losing patience with the High Council, Koorland ousts the Lord Commander and seizes control. Elsewhere, the Fists Exemplar are forced by circumstance to fight alongside the Iron Warriors. Where will such an alliance lead – can a Traitor Legion ever be trusted?
Even though this book is spoiled I want to read it now.
>>44151306
He is not confirmed dead. He just lent the black crusade a hand.
>>44151306
>So they were charged with standing on the palace walls, which they haven't left... Why did Dorn die in first BC again?
Only some were.
The best Fists were to stand on the walls until they died.
These characterswere actually happy to ditch the walls at first because it meant they could fight again, but then they all died.
>>44151351
Old fluff said the fist 1st librarian carried his body back to the phalanx.
>>44151351
>Lent two hands
>>44149229
>>44150365
That would be an interesting political point.
What if the successor chapters actually have a right to be 'promoted' to the first as a matter of honor, and that this right is built into the Codex Astartes.
Maybe this explains why space marines can maintain a much higher rate of attriton then we thought before, as other chapters can send their 'excess' recruits and even other astartes to level out the weaker chapters.
So then the Imperium can maintain its 1 million marine limit, but in actuality could have several times that who were either recruited, killed, or transfered to other chapters or duties at any given year.
Logistics is my fetish.
>>44151351
>Russ, Corax and Dorn will never return from the Eye of Terror at the head of an army of ancient stranded Space Marines and found a new Legion called the Silver Horde
Why even have lore?
>>44151449
didn't know that 2nd ed?
>>44151555
both hands damn
>>44151727
source?
>>44150715
>They are a competent chapter
If they were a competent chapter they wouldn't be dying all the time.
Also yellow marines look awful, maybe it's GW slowly fixing their mistake.
>>44150979
>transdimensional bug monsters
Please, tell me more.
>>44152051
Imagine Tyranids, but much more shitty and lame.
Now imagine those were even worse and then you've got Chromes.
>>44152051
Chromes are bug like creatures that live in-between dimensions. When the Orks moon/fleet drills through dimensions, it disturbs the chromes and they flee from the Orks into realspace and into Imperial worlds.
>>44151727
I wish there were DAOT devices or artifacts that turned really cool human characters or marines into primarchs or Emperor tier power levelled characters.
Like more of the Luther/Abbadon type of ascension but not always relying on Chaos alone.
>>44152166
That would be pretty lame.
>>44152166
They did this already. Artificial Perpetuals.
It turned out as well as you'd expect.
>>44152078
>>44152158
Got it. Interdimensional stuff has never been mentioned in the fluff before so this stuff is noncanon.
>>44151119
HAHAHAHA
I guess finally I have something to agree with the damn wolves with, SUCK IT, STILL ALIVE, NEVER DESTROYED! How does it feel to be bastard spawn instead of true first founding seed?
>>44152318
>Interdimensional stuff has never been mentioned in the fluff before
>Laughing Chaos.jpg
>Laughing Necrons.jpg
>Laughing Eldar.jpg
>>44152318
You don't get to define what's canon or not. Ork technology is not a stable thing. Most of it is crude trash but there are examples of ridiculously advanced Technology. Sometimes it's a one time thing and sometimes Orks pick it up and it becomes part of their arsenal. In fact as I recall, there is an Ork Speedfreak who is working on creating a dimensional highway inspired by the Eldar Webway in the GW fluff.
For all you know the Beast Waaagh! might have looted Necron technology.
>Imperial fists were wiped clean
that's so fucking stupid
Even if they were rebuild by their successor chapters with the purest geneseed, where the fuck would the difference be?
Still the same chapter with the same geneseed, just different people
>>44152346
As a Dark Angels fanboy, I feel obliged to remind you that our beloved Chapter would be known to be as bad if not worse than the Imperial Fists at getting wiped out and rebuilt if it wasn't for the le traitorz maymay.
>>44152346
Vote to exclude Imperial Fists from the First Founding club!
Blood Angels, aye!
>>44152425
Alpha Legion nay
>>44152402
>Even if they were rebuild by their successor chapters with the purest geneseed, where the fuck would the difference be?
Imagine you died and a clone of you was created. The clone was told some things about your life, but did not experience your life.
Is the clone really you?
>>44152457
>>44152406
this would be true if the dark angels didn't essentially create chapters whenever they feel like it that are basically under their direct command
>>44152377
We need more galaxies or dimensions.
Its why Age of Sigmar is so much crazier then old Warhammer now, because they just don't give a shit no more.
>>44152425
Primus Legio interque.
>>44152207
It would give characters more of a reason to fight and mix it up.
Worked for End Times no?
>inb4 AoS rant.
>>44152504
>It would give characters more of a reason to fight and mix it up.
I don't see how.
>Worked for End Times no?
I wouldn't say so. In fact the act of just making some super characters just lessen possibilities for conflict, as the only one who can fight super characters is a super character.
So no thank you.
>>44152457
Of course fucking not
its a clone.
>>44152566
>I wouldn't say so. In fact the act of just making some super characters just lessen possibilities for conflict, as the only one who can fight super characters is a super character.
Wot.
It gives regular characters a chance by letting them have "powerups" to fight for.
Otherwise you have a built up artifical hierarchy with no ability for lets say a human hero to make even a dent into Horus' plans etc.
Are you just advocating taking out all superhumans entirely? No Space Marines or Primarchs or Gods?
Then 40k would be boring as shit.
I highly doubt the Fists are dead. Dorn has to still be around before he died or went missing. Even if his chapter is dead, he can rebuild with his geneseed.
>>44152612
>It gives regular characters a chance by letting them have "powerups" to fight for.
Regular characters do have a chance. By making super characters no one has a chance except the super hero characters.
>Otherwise you have a built up artifical hierarchy with no ability for lets say a human hero to make even a dent into Horus' plans etc.
Human covers a very wide scope. The Emperor was human and very much did put a dent in Horus' plans.
>Are you just advocating taking out all superhumans entirely? No Space Marines or Primarchs or Gods?
No, I'm advocating that god like characters should be kept rare, and not just something for any faggot who finds some dark age technology.
Events like the Heresy would have no meaning if next week Commissar Fredrick A. Ggot finds the mk6 brain amplifier and becomes the new Emperor.
>>44152297
>>44152486
Shitty 41K campaign shoehorning 31K shit in confirmed.
>>44152457
All Marines are clones on some level.
Thesus's Ship AKA Triggers broom.
Imperial Fists are an organisation which has lasted longer than any in history - it's existence is defined by the structure not the individuals.
Evidence - Codex existence.
Either way OP it's a pretty poor attempt at buthurt because your initial definitions require a certain dumbness to take as the only possibility.
>>44152740
The beast series is a halfway point - there's remnants of 30k / the good old days, but it's more or less a 40k novel.
>>44151058
They have geneseed banks they can bring out to replenish their numbers. Throw some successor chapter veterans in to train up new dudes, empty out those geneseed vaults, and the chapter's back up to full strength in two decades. Could also bring back anyone they had in the Deathwatch to be Fists again in their time of need.
That's not really an end to continuity, because it is their original geneseed. I guess it could mean there was an end as there was a brief blip where there weren't any Imperial Fists, but what exactly do you call successors who are made of the same stuff, recruited from the same places, trained in the same manner by guys who fight the same, and wear the exact same armor and wield the exact same weapons?
Can we get some actual confirmation on the Fists being dead, or are we going to deal with possible trolling? I want to say this is trolling.
>>44152793
>All Marines are clones on some level.
That's really not the point.
The point is continuity.
>>44152940
>That's not really an end to continuity, because it is their original geneseed.
It's not about the gene-seed. It's about the history and culture of the Chapter.
This is the clone example. Physically your clone is the same as you, but it doesn't have your life experiences, it is apart from your continuity.
>>44151057
Better?
>>44152740
Too much of 30k is leaking into 40k. Shit needs to stop.
>>44153067
not him but pretty good anon
>>44153089
Or is it too much of 40k is leaking into 30k?
>>44153112
Look at how many retcons do we have to deal with from 30k that are flooding into 40k.
Imperium Secundus
Alpha Legion Did Everything
Magnus did nothing wrong
Perpetuals
Ollanius Perrson
"Emperor is a Bad Dad" meme
As an example, look at Damnation of Pythos, and how that affected Warzone Pandorax in 40k.
>>44152457
>Is the clone really you?
So according to your retarded logic even the chapters which survived are the same because the people from the founding days are all dead
Great, but that just makes the discussion pointless
>>44153145
>As an example, look at Damnation of Pythos, and how that affected Warzone Pandorax in 40k.
It didn't?
Pandorax came first and Pythos shuffled along later.
>>44153145
Why does any of that matter to 40k? The number of individuals by M41 who actually know any of that can be counted on one hand, and none of them are actually going to act upon it. Simply put, no one gives a fuck about, "the truth" because the truth doesn't matter.
>>44153145
Now I realize what you mean. BL can be blamed for most of that while FW seems to be handling 30k just fine.
So, there are still primarchs alive at the time of the beast? Or were all dead/lost/in stasis?
>>44153202
Girlyman made in appearance in the novel.
>>44153145
Please explain how any of these things directly impact the setting in M41.
>>44152425
>>44152438
Ultramarines, aye!
>>44153162
>So according to your retarded logic even the chapters which survived are the same because the people from the founding days are all dead
>Great, but that just makes the discussion pointless
Nope, because they have continuity.
Veteran Brother Marine teaches newbie Marine.
Veteran newbie Marine teaches newbie newbie Marine and so the Chapter's culture and wisdom carries on.
This is continuity.
I read that all the cells in your body are replaced every seven years. So seven years from now you will not have a trace of the you from now.
But because you are not replaced all at once there is a continuity.
I have no idea if that's actually true, but i'm sure you can see what I'm getting at, right?
The Marines are cells of a living body, they die and new ones are created, but there is continuity.
If all the Marines die together then continuity is broken.
>>44153217
No he didn't. There's a High Lord of Terra seat called, "Lord Guilliman" similar to how the position of Caesar was taken from Caesar's name.
>>44153217
No he didn't.
Lord Guilliman is just the title of the biggest hotshot in the Imperium.
>>44153268
>>44153269
>Letting a mortal have the name of our spiritual liege
>>44153253
>and so the Chapter's culture and wisdom carries on.
Your argumentation hinges on the culture and wisdom only being able to be carried on like that.
Considering how close some chapters are to their predecessors and that much of the shit is taught by stories of the past which are still written down and traditions which can easily be upheld in a change like that I dismiss it with a haughty sneer
hahaw
>>44149229
There are 50 left on Terra, but still 95% losses.
>>44153285
Yes. Because post-Heresy, marines don't have even a fraction of the political power they wielded during the Great Crusade.
>>44153304
Did Rowboat allow his name to be a usable title, and where is the real one now?
>>44153295
Good. Then all of this is just trolling. Blood Angels recovered from less, and continuity is still maintained.
>>44151088
This plus there are likely 10th Co. Plus support that never see action for this very reason so that even when the entire chapter is wiped they can still function. In the case of the fists the phalanx is never destroyed so we can assume that a decent amount survive to continue the legacy of Dorn.
>>44153323
In stasis.
>>44153288
Each Chapter has their own culture and continuity.
We can see that the culture of the Fists is very different in the novel.
You could talk to a history professor about Druidic rituals, and he could tell you what he knows, but that doesn't mean you're learning anything but Wicca rather than true Druidism.
>>44153047
Neither do any of their new recruits. Though that's what the chapter's who collection of artifacts and written history is. If you replace the history teachers with new teachers teaching the same subject, is it the same history? Does "original" mean someone who was a part of the original original Imperial Fists Legion? Because then they'd not have been the original Imperial Fists for a while. Do they not become Fists unless trained by a guy who was trained by a guy who was trained by a guy... who was an original Imperial Fist Legionnaire? What about their second founding successors who actually were started from the originals? If we reintroduce some original stock like that back in, does it regain its originality? Is the only original loyalist marine in the galaxy Bjorn?
>>44152661
Dorn's died before the books setting
>>44153370
>Each Chapter has their own culture and continuity.
And that chapter had little baby chapters with very similar cultures, some probably to the point of being indistinguishable
>You could talk to a history professor about Druidic rituals, and he could tell you what he knows, but that doesn't mean you're learning anything but Wicca rather than true Druidism.
Was the professor the son of a druid and around when the druid still lived`?
>>44153295
>>44153330
There are none left on Terra.
They all left.
>>44153341
>This plus there are likely 10th Co. Plus support that never see action for this very reason so that even when the entire chapter is wiped they can still function. In the case of the fists the phalanx is never destroyed so we can assume that a decent amount survive to continue the legacy of Dorn.
Nope. it's addressed that they are all there.
The Fists there even wonder if they will be the first of the first founding to be completely wiped out.
>>44151351
>He just lent the black crusade a hand.
>>44153253
Most of the chapter's traditions and cultures can be carried on, because they're so well recorded and remembered by the records of the chapter and their successors. On top of that, all that really makes an Imperial Fist is the gene-seed - you bring some successors in with the same gene-seed, they become the upper echelons of a new chapter as it recruits and takes recruits from its successors for a while, and it's back.
At this point it becomes an argument of Thesus' ship, but it's important to note that the chapter is so important that it's not refounded, but people act like it was never destroyed in the first place.
>>44153375
>>44152661
The series takes place 544.M32. Dorn dies in a Black Crusade in between Abaddon's 1st and 2nd Black Crusade.
Abaddon's first was in 731.M31
Abaddon's second was in 597.M32
The loss of Dorn is still 3 or 4 marine generations removed from the series.
>>44153330
And they are exactly the ones they need. The Tech marines and crew of the Phalanx, Dreadnoughts, the guys maintaining the geneseed, the guys implanting he initiates and the ones training initiates as well as the initiates themselves.
>>44153373
>Neither do any of their new recruits.
They are introduced to and live the culture of the Chapter.
The new recruits become part of the continuity.
But if all are dead then continuity is broken.
>>44153387
>And that chapter had little baby chapters with very similar cultures, some probably to the point of being indistinguishable
Nope. Imperial Fist Culture of this time was very unique and essentially all based on Terra.
No other Chapter shared this culture.
>Was the professor the son of a druid and around when the druid still lived`?
The professor is no Druid. He has only read about Druid culture.
>>44153403
The Chapter's traditions can be "carried on" but the continuity is broken. I can read up on any number of old rituals and try to ape them, but that does not mean I am a person of that culture.
>>44151952
The fists managed to protect the Emperor from several Legion sized assaults on the palace. That is, until Emps himself decided to risk his ass.
>>44153388
Except that is objectively wrong. First off they specifically state that there are 50 left. Additionally the Phalanx wasn't here and new Fists are trained on the Phalanx so there is your remaining 50. It wasn't all the Fists in the Terra system, it was all on Fists ON Terra.
>>44153501
>Nope. Imperial Fist Culture of this time was very unique
Nah
>and essentially all based on Terra.
meh
>No other Chapter shared this culture.
All of their successors shared parts of their cultures, some more, some less, some probably quite a fucking lot
>The professor is no Druid. He has only read about Druid culture.
I asked if his father was one and if he was still around when his father lived
>>44153524
>First off they specifically state that there are 50 left.
No they don't.
The entire Chapter is there.
>>44152425
>>44152438
>>44153251
Luna Wolves, aye!
>>44153561
You
see
>>44151315
There are Fists in the upcoming novela.
>>44153548
>Nah
Nah?
No other Chapter has a culture based entirely on walls of the Imperial Palace.
>All of their successors shared parts of their cultures, some more, some less, some probably quite a fucking lot
We've seen that they are very divergent.
The Templars and Crimson Fists are nothing like the Imperial Fists of the time.
>I asked if his father was one and if he was still around when his father lived
No, he may have some ancestry in the lands. But he himself has knowledge only through historical texts.
>>44153611
>There are Fists in the upcoming novela.
Fists Exemplar.
Just post a picture of the page that says the Fists are wiped out so we can end this pointless arguing.
>>44150658
I imagine you havn't read the Blood Angels omnibus
>>44153648
>‘The greens, sir. We’ve always beaten them before. Even at Ullanor…’
>‘The Emperor was with us, then, Maskar,’ Heth replied darkly. ‘And the damned primarchs. It was a different time, a different age. An age of gods. Damn right we stopped them then. But they’ve grown strong again, stronger than ever, and we’ve grown weak. The Emperor’s gone, His beloved sons too. But the greenskins… Throne! They’ve come just six damned weeks shy of Terra. No warning! No damned warning at all! They’ve never been this close! They’ve got technological adaptations we’ve never seen before, not even on bloody Ullanor…. gravitation manipulation! Subspace tunnelling! Gross teleportation… whole planetary bodies, man! And they’ve all but exterminated one of the most able Chapters of Space Marines in one strike!’
>>44153654
They're not wiped out there either.
Even if we do take that shit heap as canon which is dubious given it no longer lines up with any current BA fluff.
>>44153614
>Nah?
Nah
>No other Chapter has a culture based entirely on walls of the Imperial Palace.
>based entirely
nah
>We've seen that they are very divergent.
Nah, you don't even know all of them
>The Templars and Crimson Fists are nothing like the Imperial Fists of the time.
So? They aren't the only ones
And these ones, for example, are literally based on defending the walls of the imperial palace
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Excoriators
>The Marines who would eventually become the Excoriators were stationed on the walls of the Imperial Palace by Rogal Dorn himself with one order: Do not lose.
>Although it is unclear if this is the Chapter's motto, the Excoriators still fight as if their Primarch himself was expecting them to hold the line.[2]
Which makes your already retarded argument even more laughable
>No, he may have some ancestry in the lands. But he himself has knowledge only through historical texts.
Or, you know, meeting the guys, talking to them, having their serfs, seeing vids
stuff like that
>>44153723
>And they’ve all but exterminated one of the most able Chapters of Space Marines in one strike!’
>all but
I say meh
>>44153735
>And these ones, for example, are literally based on defending the walls of the imperial palace
All Fists did that.
Please read the novel to see Fist culture, and you'll see that no other Chapter had what they had.
>‘The ork “attack moon” that I described has immense capabilities and possibly almost limitless resources. As we have no hope of outrunning the greenskin fleet, Admiral Kiran, whom I commend utterly, has taken this ship in close. We have attempted to damage the so-called attack moon with primary weapons, to no avail. It is both armoured and shielded, possibly by some form of gravitically manipulated field. It is bombarding us with crude but effective rock-mass projectiles. Our scans reveal that the moon is partly hollow, and– internally– not a sphere at all. The attack moon is simply the physical end in this location of the orks’ subspace tunnel. It is the mouth of a corridor, a conduit through which they can transport potentially unlimited reinforcements and vessels.’
>On screen, Heth looked up briefly as the ship he was aboard shook wildly. The pict image blinked off for a second and then restored.
>‘With the very little time and limited resources available to us, we have attempted a rapid transliteration of the broadcasts being made by the attack moon. Magos Biologis Laurentis, whom I also commend without reservation, has devised some translations which seem reliable. They are all statements issued by the apparent warboss of the ork horde. All recorded transmissions from the ork vessel, along with all of Magos Laurentis’s notes and ciphers, are attached to this communication in compressed data form. We have deduced that the orks refer to their subspace tunnel as a Waaagh! Gate. That is a reasonably close translation. The warboss refers to himself by a name that is harder to find a single, specific translation for. Depending on nuance, it seems to be “beast” or “slaughter”, or “lord that will make great slaughter”. I don’t think it matters. His intent is obvious and–’
>>44153780
>All Fists did that.
Yep, but those were based on it
>Please read the novel to see Fist culture, and you'll see that no other Chapter had what they had.
Educate me, bitchboy, if you can't even explain your point don't enter an argument
>>44153812
>Yep, but those were based on it
No they weren't.
They were a group of guys Dorn told not to fail.
All Fists did broadly the same thing, holding the walls.
They all share almost identical origins, but what happened in the years after is what defines their own unique cultures.
>Educate me, bitchboy, if you can't even explain your point don't enter an argument
I already have. Fist culture is all about the Walls of the Imperial Palace. They even take special wall-names.
No one else does that.
>>44153865
You're just drip feeding information
>>44153865
>No they weren't.
>They were a group of guys Dorn told not to fail.
Which they based their lore on
>All Fists did broadly the same thing, holding the walls.
But they did not base their culture on that
>I already have.
>Please read the novel to see Fist culture
Show me how fist culture is so incredibly unique
> They even take special wall-names.
>No one else does that.
So? The "new" fists can just do the same, what will be lost?
Nothing
>>44152495
>they just don't give a shit no more.
And neither do the players.
>>44153723
>And they’ve all but exterminated one of the most able Chapters of Space Marines in one strike!’
I see opinions, not reports of total annihilation of every single fist, nor an omniscent and objective osserver.
carnac, you're a moron.
>>44153907
>You're just drip feeding information
I'm really not.
Go read the novel if you want a novel's worth of information.
>>44153909
>Which they based their lore on
They based their attitude on that. Their culture is not based on the walls of the palace.
>But they did not base their culture on that
The IF did. They even take special wall names.
>Show me how fist culture is so incredibly unique
Read the novel to see it. It's all about those walls.
>So? The "new" fists can just do the same, what will be lost?
Nothing
Culture will be lost. There are no Fists around to teach their culture. Continuity is broekn.
>>44153932
I am guy who posted the greentext. I have no stake in the debate and I haven't even engaged in the stupid debate about a boring Imperial chapter. I out of the kindness of my freaking heart copypasted something from the novel to present some actual context for this debate, and what I get for it? I get insulted by you. You are a cunt.
>>44152346
>How does it feel to be bastard spawn instead of true first founding seed?
Seed's the same, actually. That's why all the fist successors lack the Betcher's Gland and the Sus-an Membrane.
That's also why it's so easy to figure out which later founding chapters are fists (and likely why it was so easy to replace that set of losses). They're the only one with that problem, unlike legions like the Dark Angels or Ultramarines which can only be discerned through proper record keeping.
>>44153988
He didn't insult you. He insulted Carnac because of what was posted in the greentext.
>>44153501
Dude, it's not like they left the Imperial Fists for a millennia before building them up again. They probably got to rebuilding it as fast as they could. Some successor chapters probably had high-ranking officers and dreads who still remember being part of the IF (because most successor chapters take their upper echelons from members of their parent chapter), and most of the IF successor chapters are very close and fight alongside each other often and join in rituals and tournaments, so it wouldn't be just aping the culture - they know a lot about it and in some ways have been a part of it. Sort of like how most of the Sons of Gulliman or the Unforgiven share marines and similar cultures and gene-seed.
>>44154036
Then he is an idiot. If he wants to insult someone then let him insult all the numerous anons who are claiming the Fists are dead instead of ME or some bogeymen
>>44151205
>Their fleet was trashed too.
>All their reserves were called in.
>At that time the Fists had a sacred charge to hold the walls of Terra.
>Even the Marines that manned the walls went and died.
And for some reason no one decided to bring the Phalanx? And for some reason the Phalanx has no Imperial Fists on it?
Sounds like some A grade bullshit.
>>44153973
>They based their attitude on that. Their culture is not based on the walls of the palace.
One rules the other, put some wall-naming in their and voila
>The IF did. They even take special wall names.
Neat, still not very special though
>Read the novel to see it. It's all about those walls
>educate yourself shitlord
sjw/10
>Culture will be lost.
Nope, either say how and why or fuck off
>There are no Fists around to teach their culture. Continuity is broekn.
>culture is naming yourself after walls
>but naming yourself after walls can't be done without the original ones!!!!1111oneoneoneoneoneeleven
Yes it can be, bring up a proper argument, explain the ones you already have, or admit your defeat and slurch to bed
>>44154070
not the other guy or the guy you're replying to, but
>he didn't insult you
>instead of ME
he didn't insult you, apparently
>>44152712
>Commissar Fredrick A. Ggot
Does he have an awesome mustache?Do they call him Commissar Fahrenheit?
>>44153269
>it's like Ceasar because they're Space Romans seeI like it
What about Lysander, is he not as cool because he's a clone IF?
>>44154225
>clone
u wot
IF marines made using IF geneseed's gonna make IFs. They don't just cease to exist just because the veteran members of a chapter get the boot.
>ITT people take events out of historical context
Notice how IF in M41 don't have wall-names or have their companies named after the walls of Terra, or have ranks liked second captain. At some point those traditions die. Now why might that be unless there was no one to pass those traditions onto or no one around who remembered them? It's almost as if the chapter traditions had to be relearned from someone who hadn't lived them.
I like that everyone glossed over the fact the Imperials will fight alongside Traitors (Iron Warriors) against the Orks.
This is precedented in the lore.
>>44154333
not precedented before*
>>44150715
It is better to die for the emperor than to live for yourself.
>>44150715
How do you think Sisters feel?
>>44150743
They would've just used the gene stock back on Terra to rebuild the chapter, wouldn't be hard for the Imperial Fists to do either since yknow they're based on holy Terra. One thing that always bugged me about Fists honestly is their warcry: They say "Earth" instead of "Terra" which imo is retarded,
>>44150875
You just know next time they need to write a book it will have an even BIGGER waagh
>>44154325
Or maybe it's just because that shit has never existed before and a Black Library writer just thought it's cool
Or maybe it got out of fashion because it's stupid
>>44154333
Because we have only a single phrase that is clearly meant to make you read that book to discover why.
In the end I bet it would be something far less exceptional. Like on a planet there are both Iron Warriors and Fist Exemplars on the opposite poles, occupied at bombing each others. Then the orks arrive and they both agree on a "truce" that consist in them bombing the orks for a little while, while in reality they are both using that time for finding a way to fuck the others in the ass.
>>44154325
...or they were introduced later by the writers and couldn't get retroactively integrated in every instance behind using magic leaving another simple and common inconsistence in the setting autists sperg out at?
>>44151306
I'm pretty sure they must have left the walls at some point, because when Goge Vandir (is that his name?) usurps shit, the Space Marines come to sort his out, and it's Sisters of Battle that beat them back.
If the Fists were still on the walls, they could have just walked in and killed him
>>44154333
Maybe it'll be a bunch of IWs who didn't really know what was going on during the HH and want out of the traitor game.
>>44150974
under rated post, kek
>SER THE ORKS ARE EVERYWHERE
>well retreat the men sergeant!
>SER WE BUILT WALLS EVERYWHERE RETREAT IS IMPOSSIBLE
>dorn save us...
>>44154325
If you were trying to recreate a dead chapter one of the easiest things to do would be to use the old company names and rank system. That shit would be written down somewhere. I mean, it's hardly insider only knowledge, every fucker who had served alongside an IF would have heard it. All that's proved is that they use different names and ranks now. That could be for any number of reasons.
To the original arguement: they all died and were replaced with new marines. Except logic says some survived; the long term injured, those on pilgrimage, deathwatch, trainee techmarines off at Mars, recruiters, the list goes on. These folks would be enough to provide a core to train new dudes, who would just be more new recruits from the gene seed vaults on the Phalanx or Terra. Some rituals/traditions might be lost in the messy transition period, but fuck it, traditions change over time anyway.
>>44152377
Also enslavers
>>44154509
>>44154462
Not how things work in 40k. You don't see marines going around with Volkites anymore, now do you? The whole point of this series was to fill in a time period that will only be remembered 9,000 years later as two lines worth of events. That the chapters presented are neither the legions of the Great Crusade, nor the Codex-lovers of M41.
>>44153089
>>44153145
The only thing that really bothers me is how it used to be like, 30k Imperium and 40k Imperium had mostly the same technology, with 30k having some vaguely alluded to shit that disappeared from history, and 40k having a couple of new things which is why the Chaos Legions can't use them now.
Now it turns out that pretty much everything the 40k Imperium has, the 30k Imperium had (if not a better version too). They even had quasi-Razorbacks.
>>44154609
>Or maybe it's just because that shit has never existed before and a Black Library writer just thought it's cool
>Not how things work in 40k
Exactly how it works most of the time you goddamn retard
>Or maybe it got out of fashion because it's stupid
>Not how things work in 40k
>things never change in 40k
>>44154409
They don't feel anything due to being dead.
>>44151351
bravo anon bravo i chuckled
>>44154624
>They even had quasi-Razorbacks.
They even had assault cannons (but actually better in every way), which were supposed to be a later invention.
Did they just think autocannons and heavy bolters were too boring, or something?
>>44151952
I actually like their colour scheme a lot, i used to hate it so maybe itll grow on you if you like their fluff
>>44149229
I find it interesting that by this point in the nascent Imperium the greatest threat to the space marines seems to be peace, more than anything it's lack of need/justification to keep them that threatens them the most.
It's interesting seeing at this early stage an Imperium where space marines are seen as expensive but ultimately unneeded, religion and all consuming war have not yet propelled them to the status they hold in the 41st millennium.
It's depressing though like reading the early Horus heresy books and seeing how hopeful and full of potential the Imperium once was.
>>44154752
Yellow only looks good on Orks and Eldar and only if used with care and a good colour to break it (like ork green skin and checker pattern).
Dipping a marine in yellow paint does not make a good scheme. First founding colours are mostly bad and IF are the worst.
If you think it looks good, get your eyes checked.
>>44154944
Sooo do Dark Angels look bad because they're mostly green? How about Ultramarines they're mostly blue? Or Blood Angels they're all red practically. Your argument makes no sense, you just dislike yellow and not that one colour is over used. And as I said dude I used to dislike it but now I like it a lot.
>>44154074
Agreed and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they have some idiosyncratic unit like the ultras ohonour company.
>>44154074
Yeah, and no units of the chapter were tied up with other campaigns?
The Black Consuls are trying to come back from less, and they don't even have a demi-company gathered in one place anywhere. There may even end up being some bullshit about part of the chapter having gotten lost in the warp at an earlier date just showing up now that the rest has been totaled. "Oh yeah, you did lose the third company, but here's the OLD third company!"
>>44154074
>Sounds like some A grade bullshit.
but really what else do you expect from Abnett nowadays? He's been shit since Legion came out and just kept going downhill.
>>44156327
I always figured he was just better with IG than Space Marines.
>>44153145
I only read Damnation of Pythos. My only HH novel actually. What does it change in Warzone Pandorax?
I started reading this yesterday night and dropped it 4 pages in.
Abnett can't into lore, canon AND space marines. "Lord Guilliman of Macragge"? Really? Fuck off, retard.
Anyone taking Black Library works as canon, doubly so Abnett works, deserves to be shot by a Fleshborer.
>>44157472
Calm down, Nid, it's ADB. He's a talent sucking vampire. He's getting better while Abnett is getting worse.
>>44157528
One has reached the point where he probably doesn't even like it anymore. He writed almost more outside of the 4pk universe than inside, what's with comics, chilren books, or other kind of novels.
ADB is sti in his prime. Sometimes O hate what he writes, because it just doesn't feel right, but I love how he writes it. He's really the one BL author that has a distinctive writing style for me. Most authors I can barely discern their style.
>>44157528
You wish. ADB is shit too, and equally non-canon. More repetitive, waifuist, chaos-biased and gimmicky with each new novel. His Talon of Horus is one of the worst canon-rapes in recent memory and it was better off not existing.
Just like Abnett, into the trash it goes. The only quality authors in Black Library nowadays are Chris Wraight and Guy Haley.
>>44157652
>Writed
Good god, what happened to me? I meant wrote.
>>44157528
that would require ADB to actually get better. He just keeps getting worse too with his faction waifuism and increasingly paper-thin OCs. They're both convinced it doesn't matter what they write because fanboys will drool all over it no matter what and they've both gone to shit as a result.
>>44157669
>Guy Haley
Baneblade was so good I ended up lending it to my friends and we did a tank based campaign afterwards.
>>44157669
What did Talon of Horus canon rape?
>>44152712
I'm not advocating turning all the zillions of humans in the imperium into Emperors or whatever.
Only for there to be some relics thst exist to do so. Because for your characters to have a chance like you say normally there's a deus ex machina that fits that requirement.
Its not a problem just with 40k, almost most scifi has the same issue with its predictable themes.
>>44157669
What about Mark Clapham? I love how he did Iron Guard.
>>44158037
I'm guessing, if anon felt it like me, the emphasis on "BLACK LEGION IS A COMPLETELY NEW LEGION GUYZ!" might be a tad overdone. And the writing of Abby was definitely weird. Sure he couldn't go full chaos so soon, therefore he needs to bide his time and act all well manered, to show he's cultivated and shit, but still, he was always described as the easy to offend, quick to anger leader, not the calm, smarty loner ADB wrote.
>>44158509
To be honest ADB's work was needed. The old Abaddon character is somebody I could never get behind because the dude was a complete cunt. At least I am capable of caring at all about what happens to Abaddon now besides him getting his ass kicked like old Abaddon.
>>44156287
>Yeah, and no units of the chapter were tied up with other campaigns?
This, plus this is around the third founding right? There should be veterans from this founding that used to be IF (Like Fafnir Rann for example) that can just go back and train the noobs into the IF chapter.
>>44149229
>The Phalanx
>Veterens used to help found other chapters
>Marines on loan to other organizationw (deathwatch? idk when it was made)
>Dorn is still alive at that point
>ships still in the warp
>Neophytes that are considered too new to be sent to battle
>Techmarines under training / working with mars
>Librarians
>>44158509
>>44158540
I like to think the old Abaddon character is the modern Abby while ADB's Abby is before he became the Warmaster who has banned slaves from looking at him under the penalty of death.
>>44158791
Very probably. Hopefully, with character development, he'll transform him into the Warmaster we know.
>>44158791
EH Abby was best Abby. Not surprising since Execution Hour is still one of the best 40k books in the whole lineup even 15 years on.
>>44158778
>Dorn is still alive at that point
This is the only one that isn't right, as >>44153433 points out Dorn is dead/missing by that point, and he was one of the last to go - by M32 there were no Primarchs active in the imperium
>>44158830
Or we learn that Khayon is a liar about almost everything.
>>44158950
Might have to check that out.
>>44158778
The premise of this book is retarded
>literally "The World Engine 2: Orkboogaloo"
I might add that the Astral Knights are an IF successor so it's even worse.
...for those keeping score at home, the IF (and their successors by proxy) have officially been fucked harder by GW than the Lamenters at this point.
>>44157472
>"Lord Guilliman of Macragge"? Really?
... what?
>>44158979
Considering ADB's chaos boner that would surprise me. I'm almost rxpecting him to give Chaos an enormous victory and then say "Well I did warn you guys with Khayon saying the Imperium was fucked."
>>44159189
What's the deal with his Chaos boner?
>>44159210
... he likes competent villains? Don't understand the love for 'old' Abaddon... he was a Saturday morning cartoon, all he did was sit in the Planet Killer, issue threats and kill underlings for flailing him.
>>44153723
all but
phrase of all
1.
very nearly.
"the subject was all but forgotten"
2.
all except.
"we have support from all but one of the networks"
>>44153561
One of the covers is of an imperial fist death watch member
>>44153723
>And they’ve all but exterminated
>All but
Yeah, that kinda goes against the completely exterminated bit.
>>44154944
Someone's mad aren't they
>>44158950
Solid taste, anon. I think this is the first time I've seen that book mentioned on /tg/.
>>44159210
He transform Chaos marines into dindu noffin. With him, the Imperium is always wrong and Chaos are the good guys. Hell no.
I'm not against Chaos victories, it's not like they never happen. Sure I was "sad" reading Damnation of Pythos, especially considering it was my first HH novel, but I didn't feel cheated. Chaos is still presented as a destructive, morally evil force. Not a bunch of emo teens that feel they have been wronged by daddy.
>>44159210
He might have something against the Imperium always being portrayed as more or less the good guy, with Chaos being a bunch of slavering idiots that gets shot down. I wouldn't blame him for wanting to reverse that sometimes, but it feels like it's in all his stuff.
>>44159466
>with Chaos being a bunch of slavering idiots that gets shot down.
But those are the cultists and the marines who went full Chaos and stupid at the same time. And maybe the daemons.
>>44159450
>He transform Chaos marines into dindu noffin.
... where they happily murder innocents and turn on each other, Night Lords steal from huron Blackheart and and they skin people?
Yeah, no. He doesn't make them into good guys. He simply plays them as the underdog. Which they are. The Imperium is a galaxy spanning empire, with all those resources. Each Chaos Space Marine warband is normally a few ships, a chapter at most and needs to raid to just have enough slaves/resources to survive the wars in the Eye of Terror.
You can make the Imperium the good guys, or the underdog, but you can't make them out to be both compared to Chaos. It's just stupid otherwise.
>>44159210
Daddy issues
>>44150915
It doesn't take very long, by 40k standards, to replace any number of losses. With one progenoid gland, you can get back to chapter strength in 110ish years.
>>44159608
What I meant is that in his books, he makes it look like the Imperium has done everything wrong, and that the Chaos Marines are right to rebel, murder, skin, etc.
There's a difference between having a group of sadists being the underdogs, which I agree with, and a bunch of sadists saying they did nothing wrong.
>>44150979
Badass. The Beast is one of the bits of fluff I was wondering if anyone would elaborate on, especially since he pretty much put all other warbosses/etc. to shame, obliterating countless space marine chapters.
>>44159777
>he makes it look like the Imperium has done everything wron
That's accurate inasmuch as that the Imperium is the bloodiest and most cruel regime imaginable, canonically, and frequently makes colossal, retarded mistakes. There's enough room in the setting to portray 1000 stories of rebels being justified.
>>44159927
>There's enough room in the setting to portray 1000 stories of rebels being justified.
absolutely
It's when you portray traitor legionnaires that way that things get comical, since they're the one thing in the universe that's more cruel and bloody than the Imperium.
PENITENT WHEN, DAN
>>44160093
Eh, debatably so.
>>44160093
Lies. Daemons are significantly worse than marines can ever be in terms of cruelty. It's daemons that most chaos marines would compare themselves to, not the Imperium.
>>44150670
Even complete and utter slaughters very rarely see the losing side wiped out to a man. Even the Romans at Teutoburg forest had survivors, but those legions were still wiped out in any real sense. The fact is that for a military unit to remain in existence, much less operational you need more than like 5% of it's troops. If you take a 15k strong division and kill 14500 of it's men it's unlikely you would say they weren't wiped out. Now either most armies would have to disband the division and roll it's survivors into other units, or rebuild the unit (which you might do because it's name/history has special significance) but in no real sense did the original unit survive.
>>44159777
Why is that a problem? Chaos marines DO believe the Imperium did everything wrong and they'll obviously mitigate their own flaws as virtues. It's called subjectivity. Stop reading the intentions of characters as the intentions of authors.
>>44153067
would have just shooped lelf on his face
>>44160270
daemons aren't real, dude
this is a materium-only space
>>44160270
That's debatable.
Daemons are formed by our emotions and actions so to exist as pure evil it requires first the act or emotion to exist hence ipso facto chaos marines are just as bad as daemons.
Also all this chaos faggotry about trying to fix the Imperium is bullshit; worst writing ever.
>>44160446
Uh huh. And who do you think all of the chaos marines in the Eye of Terror have to deal with on a regular basis? It's not the Imperium, that's for sure.
>>44160485
>It's not the Imperium, that's for sure.
Right, they have to deal with the crushing weight of their piled on sins and failures.
>>44160478
That doesn't apply at all. Not all beings are capable of all emotions or actions that would be represented by a daemon.
>>44160093
>Imperium
> Second most cruel
What are the Orks and Dark Eldar
>>44160548
Fuck off Ecclesiarchy.
>>44160552
Yes but chaos marines are; hence why tau unlike chaos doesn't have a very strong precence in the warp; as they are orderly and unemotional. While that chaos marine just loves sticking his hand up your arse to pull your intestines oiut; as it causes more pain than going down your throat... not all being need to be able to feel the emotions of daemons to have them form just a bunch of really sadistic fuck which you can't deny chaos is and always has been.
Chaos is the temptation of power; without realising that power corrupts, especially when rules of its use are thrown away and ignored; hence why those fuckers will never be the good guys as they are greedy mother fucker every single one of them and portraying Abby as anything more than a greedy homicidal and incredibly flippant user of lives is silly. Abby doesn't care if he kills a commander every time they fail. It reassert his power in the face of defeat. Hell he probably would even do it in the face of success; don't want a new champion to Arise and gain favor with the gods... it's why chaos has never won yet even though looking at them they are individually more powerful; as they aren't coherent even in the chaotic organisation's that are regimented.
>>44160559
Orks are a utopia.
>>44156287
Hah that would be just like the IF to get lost in the warp ahem Lysander, also this is fucking creepy reading this because I was going to do a fanwank 3rd company for my table top about 3rd company being lost in the warp in m31 and reappearing in current times. They would have been lost in the warp during a heated siege war against chaos where the entire world is swallowed by the immaterium where even there chaos is unable to penetrate the imperial fists defences and the world was regurgitated back into real space. Sounds goofy rn I know but I'll make it bad-ass I promise!
>>44161712
If you can make it work with whoever you play tabletop with, no problems here. I had a guy who had skaven-headed abhumans for his IG regiment.
Personally though, at that point I'd just make a company of Imperial Fists with surprisingly old marks of armor that they'd saved.
>>44150715
Their competence went with police the the Crimson fists, and what little bad assert they had left with sigismund yo the black templars. Post heresy fists are completly redundant as a chapter and deserve everything that's given to them, especially because they kept the fucking terrible colour scheme
