Why exactly did they make a game about a universe they killed?
Why now?
>>44087187
Because they planned it when the universe was still around, but GW didn't tell them about the end times, I think, or if they did they both were planning to squeeze out every last tears covered cent from the fan base.
Not that I'm complaining, honestly, the fact it ignores the bullshit that is the end times and is set in a time when azhag is still alive is definitely a plus.
>>44087187
What's even more bizarre, that they have licensed a bunch of other games based on Old World and their old, OOP games. Thought Bloodbowl vidya was weird? How about Mordheim or fucking Man 'o War.
>>44087239
One of the games has End Times in the title
>>44087495
Weren't we talking about total war?
Apart from temporal placement vermintide has little to do with the greater scheme of things of the end times anyway
>>44087495
That's Vermintide.
>>44087187
If they could make games for Age of Sigmar they would, but the lore for that is so godawful no amount of quality in gameplay could justify it.
>>44087654
It was one of the several GW games announced close together in the big spurt of them, making it clear that devs were aware that the setting was facing The Great Throwdown
>>44087187
because the total war guys wanted to make a warhammer game
These games are a result of people coming to GW asking to use the license, not the other way around.
>>44087778
Not necessarily, some games take more time, total war may have been in program since who knows?
Vermintide is comparatively a smaller title.
>>44087785
I thought these games were a result of Creative Assembly getting the Games Workshop rights from THQ's corpse in an auction to try and allieviate some of it's bankruptcy debts?
>>44087825
Possibly, but remember everything's initiated by the developers. GW can tell them they're blowing the setting up, but if CA wants to make a warhammer game and not an age of smellmar game, they'll make one.
Age of Sigmar has basically zero brand recognition and a ton of bad word of mouth surrounding it.
You think the pre-order DLC caused a ruckus? Imagine if they'd actually tried to sell Age of Skubmar: Total War after the Warhams fanbase had been clamoring for a Warhammer one for years.
That's not even mentioning the fact that a lot of the CA staff on the game are actually warhammer fans and they probably wouldn't WANT to make a AoS game.
>>44087998
I've already said this but I think age of sigmar could work in a future game simply as a moba or those team fortress inspired hero centered shooter that are running now.
Age of sigmar provides a justification for having no actual lore behind the game and some mevhanics, old fantasy provides the aesthetic of heroes.
Regardless of how much people don't like the age of sigmar a seraphon is a lizardman, a skaven a skaven, bloodborne mcblood skull grindsecrator is still a chaos warrior, having the opportunity to smash stormcasts' ugly faces may even be seen as an incentive.
You've just to handle with care that the age of sigmar is an excuse for the heroes and not the focus of the game and people will come.
>>44087187
AOS game when ?
>>44087187
probably endtime DLC is coming and
Warhammer 2 AOS line up
>>44088347
>probably
Yeah, and brets, sisters, chaos marines and squats will all get a new 10/10 line of plastic miniatures next month
>>44088269
Someone will make a mod for Total War. No points/whatever-the-game-uses limit, take any unit you want, initiate the shitshow.
>>44087747
Nobody would play that shit.
What Creative Assembly wanted is a game in a traditional fantasy setting. They are thinking about LotR and GoT games too. This is what mainstream wants. A fantasy game with fantasy feel, not Age of Sigmarines.
Warhammer was just cheaper and is much more varied when it comes to factions and setting.
>>44087778
Nope. You know why we are having so many Warhammer games now? Because setting is dead and GW no longer cares about it. Meaning the license got cheap as shit.
And it's one of the more well known fantasy settings. Just look at Warhammer online sales.
>>44088347
CA don't want anything to do with End Times. They know what the vast majority of fans thinks about it. They are going with Storm of Chaos.
>>44088461
No, they aren't
They're going for the best route possible: This is the setting, everyone is invading, chaos is ascendant, make what you can out of it
'they' GW doesnt make the game. A dev/publisher makes a licensing agreement with GW, for a product.
The dev/publisher then pay a fee or do a profit split with GW.
GW doesnt make videogames, design them or commision them. People come to GW to make a game and can ask for specific parts of their IP. That's why you can make a Mordheim video game even though GW doesnt support it at all.
>>44087187
Because they came to GW with the idea and GW gave okay. GW is not really involved in anyway outside of informational support and advertising on the Warhammer app or their websites.
>>44087308
Same as above, someone wanted to do a game related to those products and GW gave the okay since it was evidently sound.
>>44088475
Which is exactly what Storm of Chaos was.
>>44088486
Bless you my son, finally someone with some fucking sense in them.
Small tidbit, licensing makes up a large part of the total revenue of GW and has a relatively small amount of staff dedicated to it.
>>44088500
Many developers are jumping at Warhammer because license got super cheap. This is literally what CA said. They wanted to make a LotR Total War but it was super expensive. Then Warhammer got so cheap they instantly jumped at the occasion.
>>44088461
>>44088475
ok ok maybe an AOS expansion?
like rome barbarian invasion ?
i kinda like sigmarmarine, demonCW
>>44088500
I can see GW continuing to try and make use of the value as IPs that 40k and Fantasy have to them. It's really one of the edges that they have over the competition that isn't going to available to the aforementioned for a long time, if ever.
>>44088530
Oh yeah it's really affordable, which is why a lot of smaller developers can do it as well.
Honestly they are really helpfull in that regard, offering multiple options which makes it really scalable to your project.
>>44088541
>maybe an AOS expansion?
No.
Not only do they have MORE than enough on their plate in terms of expansions, what with 15 major factions and several minors ones to cram in there, but again, AoS brings a lot of stink and fandom bitterness along with it, CA has no incentive to touch that shit with a ten foot pole.
>>44088562
>AoS brings a lot of stink and fandom bitterness along with it
You honestly assume anyone outside of the Warhammer fanbase knows or gives a shit.
>>44088574
Thanks for making my point for me dipshit.
CA has nothing to gain by making AoS content, since people outside won't know or care about it anyway. They do, however, have something to lose, as a semi-large crowd of butthurt fans making a stink on the internet is at the very least annoying and has the potential to harm the product if it gets out of hand.
CA wants the Warhammer fanbase on their side for this, they want that extra spike of excitement and good word of mouth, they have no reason to get involved with Age of Skubmar.
>>44088574
Well, they're selling this shit to the fanbase
And I seriously doubt anyone who tasted the old setting can prefer the new one without being a contrarian or a person that doesn't know what's even going on
>>44088574
You know why fantasy became popular in the mainstream? Because of LotR movies and GoT TV series.
AoS is nothing like that. It's ridiculously over the top even compared to stuff like WoW.
>>44088541
No
Sigmarines don't fit in the old setting
Total war gameplay doesn't fit the new setting
>>44087747
>If they could make games for Age of Sigmar they would, but the lore for that is so godawful no amount of quality in gameplay could justify it.
You know they're going to try.
I hope to god that they fail and that the masses of retards don't eat it up.
>>44088627
>You know they're going to try.
They won't. AoS is a gigantic failure.
>>44088596
No, I meant you assume that anyone outside of the Warhammer fanbase gives a shit or even has an inkling of the tantrum fallout.
In fact only people from /tg/ really bring up the End Times, most people are more concerned about Chaos Warriors being DLC.
>>44088598
It's possible to like them both.
>>44088605
Warhammer Fantasy isn't like GoT either.
AoS is also fantasy, I don't know what the fuck else you'd try defining it as.
>>44088614
>Sigmarines don't fit in the old setting
Then neither do Chaos Warriors I guess
>>44088596
Doesn't mean GW didn't give them the license on the basis of them making an AoS expansion. It's unlikely, sure, but definitely not impossible.
>>44088639
No you don't understand, "gw was expecting the drop in sales", it's not a flop but a controlled strategy
>>44088639
>They won't. AoS is a gigantic failure.
Are there any figures? Because I haven't given up hope about a retcon of the End Times and everything after.
>>44088656
>controlled strategy
Shittier setting, less fans, less sales, higher prices?
Best. Strategy. Evarh.
>>44088682
No, just anecdotes.
GW seems fully committed to AoS and it's just as likely they drop the entire line as a whole if it failed as they would rebooting Fantasy. And if they did reboot Fantasy there is nothing saying they're going to repeat the formula which proved itself to already be a failure.
>>44088643
Dude, this shit looks good compared to AoS world.
AoS is nothing like traditional fantasy.
Warhammer has fantasy versions of real countries. Traditional fantasy races people know and love from LotR. Evil bad guys coming from the frozen north.
AoS is nothing like that. It's swarming with demigod shit and superpowers.
>>44088701
But it's for kids and new players! Kids really want to buy 3 tiny unpainted super detailed chaos knights for 100$!
>>44088643
>you assume that anyone outside of the Warhammer fanbase gives a shit or even has an inkling of the tantrum fallout.
No, I literally don't.
But you seem to assume that the Warhammer fanbase is some kind of distinct population that can't engage with or affect the people that aren't Warhammer fans.
PC exclusive strategy games are ultimately a niche market, they're not making Call of Duty here, they want and need all the positive word of mouth they can get.
They have no reason what so ever to get involved with something which brings nothing positive to the table and will only manage to drive away a fanbase they're already relying on.
>inb4 you claim that CA doesn't care about the Warhammer fanbase while they're making a Warhammer game
Also, multiple people in the development staff are themselves fans of classic Warhammer Fantasy, why would THEY want to make AoS content?
>Warhammer Fantasy isn't like GoT either.
It very much is.
Sure Warhammer is a lot more High Fantasy than GoT, but both of them share a lot in how the world is built and shit, with most civilizations being easy analogs to real world civilizations.
AoS on the other hand is some high concept cosmic shit which is like someone smushing together weird mythology and Sci-fi concepts.
>In fact only people from /tg/ really bring up the End Times
Maybe that's because CA themselves have wisely stayed far, far away from the topic?
>>44088643
>It's possible to like them both
I know, I do
But I'm talking about preferring one over the other, given the choice.
>Then neither do Chaos Warriors I guess
Are you seriously going to argue about the feasibility of depicting something that was not in the old setting in the old setting? Something so removed from reality like sigmarines?
In an ideal world where you can build a headcanon people will accept sure, why not (it's what I did personally)?
But doing it in something that should be a depiction of the old setting in a certain period of its history and given free reign to move in divergent timelines, sigmarines have little to no space, they don't fit, or you may as well introduce tyranids or orks' gargants.
>>44088682
Well...going by stock market alone....somewhere some one is buying somthing. Their stocks are at their highest in almost 5 years.
>>44088643
>Chaos Warriors
Humans corrupted and mutated by dark powers.
>Sigmarines
Souls of great heroes reforged by a God and put into big living armors of gold.
Dude, Sigmarines are like 10 times more high fantasy. And even GoT has evil magical monster dudes from the North.
>>44088714
>AoS world.
What world, AoS doesn't even have a world, just patched up aesthetics and names from warhammer fantasy a few basic informations (these are the very bad guys, these are the good ones) and then it's all inflated with "uncountable, innumerable, infinite, unlimited, above all, shook the whole universe, greatest, godder and badder"
>>44088643
>Then neither do Chaos Warriors I guess
Chaos warriors are just humans who worship the Chaos Gods. I don't see how you could ever think they don't fit.
>>44088400
It's a total war game, it will have a currency system with each unit costing x to make and y to keep every turn and each province making z based on size, upgrades and tax level rather than their being any actual limit.
>>44088778
They went up after Warhammer TW was announced. AoS has nothing to do with that.
>>44088805
>What world,
This one.
>inb4 that guy claims that this map totally resembles GoT just as much as Warhammer does.
>>44088737
They can make a stink, but it's really no different than the problems the Total War games already face, honestly it matters less.
There were also a bunch of TWfags who were not on board with them making a Warhammer game if all the whining on the forums was any indication.
>Also, multiple people in the development staff are themselves fans of classic Warhammer Fantasy, why would THEY want to make AoS content?
They never insinuated they wanted to
>It very much is.
Oh?
Please, tell me about the political intrigue and character relationships present in Fantasy.
Oh right, there was the barest amount of it because the only purpose was to come up with minimal justification as to why two armies were fighting and focus on characters was seemingly whined to here and back about because their rules were too good and they weren't "muh OC'.
>>44088762
>>44088811
All I'm saying that the Stormcast are essentially order equivalents of Chaos Warriors and I don't see how that concept isn't possible, yet Chaos Warriors are totally fine.
All the salt has blinded some people to this simple fact.
>>44088799
They're both humans empowered by godly beings. The real difference comes from manner of selection, that Sigmar takes a more vested interest in the Stormcast, that the Stormcast are reused and not tossed aside, and that one day the reforging of the Stormcast will no longer be possible.
>>44088778
>Their stocks are at their highest in almost 5 years.
>>44088821
>This image.
Way to be a liar Anon.
Why would you lie about easily verifiable information on the internet?
They're not even at the highest for the last 1½ years.
>>44088824
Dude, that's the scarred remain of the old world, that's not where most of AoS take place, people don't even know where shit takes place in those inconceivable mortal realms.
It might as well be the realm of chaos for how things look and go.
>>44088852
And stock are not even accurate for company's true health.
GW revenue goes down 4-5% every year for the last 5 years. Last report was -4.6%.
>>44088778
Well that's pretty fucking sad. Retardation is rewarded.
>>44088837
>order equivalents of Chaos Warriors
Those would be stuff like sigmar priests or grail knights
Stormcast are more akin to space marines
>inb4 but space marines are chaos warriors
Inspired by, become something else
Or you would argue that since both frogs and birds had the same ancestral outline they're the same thing
>>44088778
>Their stocks are at their highest in almost 5 years.
>shows a graph of the last year
Uhm..
>>44088821
>shows an actual graph of 5 years
>stocks are evidently not the highest in 5 years
>stocks were practically in a free-fall sometime in 2014
Thanks, second anon. Fuck you, first anon.
>>44088837
>All I'm saying that the Stormcast are essentially order equivalents of Chaos Warriors and I don't see how that concept isn't possible, yet Chaos Warriors are totally fine.
Because Sigmar didn't do shit in Fantasy, why would he suddenly decide to make an army of sigmarines?
And chaos warriors were still mostly normal men, who worshipped Chaos. They weren't the souls of heroes turned into lightning and put into golden suits of armour.
Sigmarines just wouldn't make sense to appear in a Fantasy game, it'd be like taking a 2nd founding chapter and putting them into pre-heresy time.
>>44088837
>Oh right, there was the barest amount of it because the only purpose was to come up with minimal justification as to why two armies were fighting and focus on characters was seemingly whined to here and back about because their rules were too good and they weren't "muh OC'.
>has obviously never played anything other than the tabletop
>what are roleplaying games and novels?
>laughingwhores.jpg
>>44088821
>that sudden drop with the end times
The panic is real
>>44088837
>Please, tell me about the political intrigue and character relationships present in Fantasy.
Are you actually for fucking real.
Here, I took the liberty of comparing the Warhammer map, the GoT map and the AoS map.
One of these things is not like the other.
Shit like "This setting is more about politics" and "This setting is more about grand heroics" is such fucking small potatoes compared to the entire fucking IDEA AND CONCEPT of the setting being some else entirely.
GoT and Warhammer are both about largely human stories, there are normal cities were normal people live and have normal lives with trading and prostitutes and bandits and knights. The focus is different but to a casual observe it's very very easy to draw the parallels from Tolkien to Warhammer to GoT.
AoS is utterly alien, at best it could be set to draw from weird older mythology stuff that most people don't know shit about.
>>44088924
>AoS map
Dude
That's not the AoS map
AoS has no map comprising all the territories it takes place on
In fact, AoS basically starts with describing that said map would be impossible
It's that shit
>>44088924
>AoS is utterly alien, at best it could be set to draw from weird older mythology stuff that most people don't know shit about.
i like this part of AOS too
but miss the old Warhammer grim renaissance fell
>>44088875
>GW revenue goes down 4-5% every year for the last 5 years. Last report was -4.6%.
Wow, I'm amazed that their stocks are actually rising. Who's buying this shit? Are they playing with the stocks to make it look better?
>>44088837
>They're both humans empowered by godly beings.
If you cannot see the difference between being influenced by primordial forces, becoming twisted, and being hand-picked by a literal godly persona, infused with god, I don't think there is any hope for you.
Let's see if we can illustrate this for you. Principle starting careers in a Warhammer Fantasy roleplaying game includes peasant, rat-catcher, and barber-surgeon.
In Age of Shitmar, what principle starting careers could you envision as being likely for a roleplaying game?
If you still do not see the incredible difference in appeal of the settings and how they relate to other fantasy settings, you're probably autistic.
>>44088940
Yes yes yes, that only makes the whole thing worse.
The point is, Warhammer easily fits within the popular conceptualization of what Fantasy is, basically everything about the setting draws from either something in real life or something that's super mainstream and easily recognized by the average pleb.
Everything in AoS is not only fucking bizzare, it also all has these ungodly extra special donut-steel names that GW's lawyers insisted they make up so no one could have copies of their shit.
>>44088940
>In fact, AoS basically starts with describing that said map would be impossible
And as we all know, people relate best to things they cannot clearly envision in imagery.
>>44088915
He apparently somehow had the power to have Warrior Priests perform miracles and Lileath was able to grant magic powers to certain knights.
Order Warriors could exist, but they likely would not be as numerous as Chaos Warriors simply because of the gulf in power between the respective gods.
>And chaos warriors were still mostly normal men
Is that why they were larger, stronger, tougher? Why basically the Empire's only defense was possibly numbers and the ability to fighting as a united force?
Marauders were normal men, but Chaos Warriors were superhuman to varying levels.
>>44088921
Both things which ultimately play second fiddle to the tabletop game and are even dubious because they can just as well be about killing and looting as politics with a preference for the latter.
>>44088924
It's the focus that is important, not how fucking similar the maps are to each other.
People primarily read ASOIAF and/or watch GoT for the character interactions and relationships, not so much the world and the time when two armies smash together.
You're entire premise is that because Fantasy is vaguely similar in certain aspects to ASOIAF and GoT that people would give a shit about, completely missing the importance of focus.
>>44088968
Why do starting classes in the role playing game matter in the grand scheme of things?
>>44087187
still can't believe they didn't call it "Total Warhammer" it's such a no-brainer
>>44088837
>Please, tell me about the political intrigue and character relationships present in Fantasy.
What the fuck? Are you serious? Did you ever read any of the Warhammer RPG lore books? Or the lore parts of armybooks?
Empire went through GoT like shit a couple of times. It split a couple of times. You have conflicts between Elector Counts. Between religions. Between cities.
And that's just the Empire. What about wars between Estalian kingdoms? Between Tilean princes? The internal conflict within Myrmidian religion? Wars with Araby? Crusades? Elven civil war?
There is much, MUCH more going on than in LotR with it's "let's beat the evil lord".
AoS is not even comparable.
>>44089027
Contract and legal reasons from both parts, I'd say.
But formality apart, total warhammer is the name and everyone can feel it.
>>44089036
He thinks Game of Plebs has subtle and intricate political intrigue not LotR.
>>44089002
>It's the focus that is important, not how fucking similar the maps are to each other.
You're either straight up delusional or you simply don't grasp what's even being argued.
Obviously Warhammer fantasy doesn't work for the kind of stories that GoT works for.
The POINT is that both settings share the trait in common that most things within the setting are easy to recognize by a casual observer.
Everyone that's seen lord of the rings, has heard what a Vampire is and knows a snippet about Arthurian legend can instantly recognize about 95% of the Warhammer setting is about.
It's all familiar, it has names they've heard before, it's analogous to something in real life, it has it's root in the popular culture and the popular consciousness.
Warhammer is SAFE, it won't turn anyone away simply by being strange and unfamiliar.
Age of Sigmar is fucking weird even for people who are deep into fantasy fiction, it has no appeal and no recognizably to the average person, things only make sense by way of being connected to very specific shit within another fantasy setting.
>Why do starting classes in the role playing game matter in the grand scheme of things?
Because it illustrates so very clearly the core of the difference.
In AoS you quite simply COULD NOT have a simple RPG about relatively normal people having relatively simple adventures and stuff.
In Warhammer Fantasy it's as easy as pie.
>>44089002
>Why do starting classes in the role playing game matter in the grand scheme of things?
Because it shows the focus of the setting and what appeals to the people invested in it.
There's a reason you start as a peasant, a rat-catcher, or similar, in Warhammer Fantasy.
And that's because it's a earth-y, gritty, mud-covered human experience, and even when epic encounters are experienced, it's the small man against overwhelming odds.
Age of Shitmar is nothing like this. It's an over-the-top, alien setting, which also fails to summon forth anything that conforms to our collective consciousness as to what fantasy is, while on top of everything alienating all the old fans of the setting they destroyed.
Had they only not decided to destroy the old setting with the ridiculous End Times and literally obliterate it to make way for Age of Shitmar, nobody would've cared about Age of Shitmar and all would've been well; it'd be a shitty setting that would appeal to a small number of people the rest doesn't care about.
But we actually lost something tangible, which is why people are understandably upset, and instead we got something that in no way appeals to us, nor to the wide masses in any way. The idea that Age of Shitmar will take off is absurd.
>>44089071
Nope. But it's still leagues above fucking AoS.
>why do you bash AoShit when you can still have your old WHFB?
>why do you bash me from wanting AoShit in your WHFB?
I do want to believe in people being able to have different point of views and interests without being ignorants, but damn, you make it difficult.
>>44089073
>Obviously Warhammer fantasy doesn't work for the kind of stories that GoT works for.
But it does. Remember the whole Ottilia thing and Empire splitting up?
>>44089073
>Obviously Warhammer fantasy doesn't work for the kind of stories that GoT works for.
It usually doesn't but it can
That's the main difference: Fantasy had all kinds of potentials a rich setting has, the story of aos has barely the ones for fan fictions
>>44089135
>why do you bash AoShit when you can still have your old WHFB?
Because AoShitmar literally replaced WHF - not just WHFB. Had they been two different settings, this would not be happening, the fans of AoShitmar and the fanbase of WHF would leave eachother alone.
But they're not, because that didn't happen. Even Lexicanum is incorporating AoShitmar, because Shitmar is unfortunately canon.
>>44089073
>Obviously Warhammer fantasy doesn't work for the kind of stories that GoT works for.
Wait, what? Why wouldn't it? Warhammer Fantasy has everything GoT does and more. GoT and WHF had largely the same appeal, except that WHF was slightly more high-fantasy, but with the same mud-covered veneer.
>>44089254
>except that WHF was slightly more high-fantasy
In the past it really wasn't.
It's the retarded shits like Thorpe and Ward vomiting their super ultra powerful chosen one mary sues on the setting that made it so.
>>44089274
No anon.
Warhammer fantasy was always higher fantasy than GoT.
It just went from "slightly" higher fantasy to "Incredibly, ridiculously higher fantasy"
GW is awful at managing their own product. They make great models and have good customer service, but they are pants-on-head retarded when it comes to developing long-term plans with their brands.
>>44089274
>In the past it really wasn't.
I would still say *slightly* more high-fantasy.
For example, GoT doesn't (seem to) have vampires, and there's no wizard's colleges, and there's no dwarves, elves or lizardmen.
The magic is a lot more subtle, and if there ever was an ancient magic kingdom, it was Valyria.
Warhammer Fantasy on the other hand always had spellcasters, there were always elves, and so on. It's based heavily in Lord of the Rings, and have taken a lot of influences from older fantasy, especially gritty ones, and has always maintained that gritty, mud-covered veneer we all love.
It's then gotten progressively more influenced by both 40k and over-the-top animuu of other settings. Not even literary sources, but fantasy cultural godly personas and you-punch-gods-isms. Which is shit.
And now we have this, where Warhammer has become very divorced from it's roots and people think that the Big Four are actual personas, like individuals sitting in the clouds á la Dungeons and Dragons, just evuuuuul.
>>44089290
Anon is correct.
Warhammer Fantasy has always, even at it's grittiest, been higher fantasy than GoT - even at GoT's relative height of fantasy when dragons were common place.
Warhammer has always had a fucking wealth of fantasy blown all over it. But generally, for the rank and file in the Warhammer setting, life is shit.
The best description I've ever heard of Warhammer was this; "Warhammer pretend to be D&D, but it isn't...If you're not knee deep in shit, then duck because another load is pass due."
>>44089330
Warhammer Fantasy was always a mashup of Lord of the Rings, the real-life history of the Holy Roman Empire, Arthurian Legend, and a "What if..." of Law vs. Chaos, all of it covered in mud.
AoS doesn't even compare. It's a wholly artificial setting that doesn't really pull on anything in our collective cultural consciousness. It's a make-believe shitfest that only pulls on itself for sources, entirely self-contained, where shitty writers can suck eachother off in perpetuity.
>>44089353
>But generally, for the rank and file in the Warhammer setting, life is shit.
Depends where you live. Southern regions never saw Chaos invasions.
>>44087187
They killed the tabletop so 100% of interest would be diverted to the videogame and its microtransactions.
Smart business.
>>44089433
You don't need to be invaded by chaos to have a shit life
>>44088824
Jesus Christ that map is fucking ugly
>>44089433
>Depends where you live. Southern regions never saw Chaos invasions.
And yet life is still shit. Doesn't have anything to do with chaos invasions. Also, there's still chaos cults. And border skirmishes. And feudal power struggles. And taxes.
>>44089433
What? Everywhere felt the touch of Chaos at sometime.
>>44088824
The only thing that map resembles is Planescape (pic related) and my toilet bowl after Mexican night.
Anyone looking forward to Warhammer total war?
Im a fan if total war and im used to them dicking people withvall the DLC content, but making chaos a DLC faction didnt make sense, chaos, the empire, orks and dwarves are the most recongnisable factions especially to people new to warhammer.
>>44087187
Because they know it'll sell better than the new universe they created.
>>44088824
>>44088859
That's the Realm of Azyr,
One of the 8 realms/
>>44089565
Don't you be comparing Age of Smegmar to Planescape.
Planescape is not only good but also actually coherent.
>>44089559
>>44089547
And barely any part of the world is free from Beastmen.
>>44089613
>Don't you be comparing Age of Smegmar to Planescape.
>Planescape is not only good but also actually coherent.
Which is why it should be used as a comparison.
If this is the direction they are intent on taking, then they better be fucking aware it's been done before and done good.
>>44089613
And it also didn't have to fuck up an entire existing setting just to excuse it's own.
>>44089623
Or those FUCKING ORCS.
>>44089547
Not really worse than living in medieval Europe.
>>44089574
CA went full retard. Chaos and Wood Elves should be standard races at release.
>>44089733
Chaos sure.
Wood Elves? They were never that important to the setting. They are an isolationist faction. How will they fit in the campaign as a PC race?
>>44089733
Beastmen are objectively more important than Wood Elves.
>>44089733
I'm actually okay with this.
Releasing a relatively small map focused on The Old World with a few playable races is actually a pretty sound decision.
It lets people play the game and see what bugs/balance issues there are that need addressing, and it lets CA figure out if it's going to be profitable enough to be worth continuing.
So rather than dropping a whole bag out at once that might have massive issues and not sell, they release something that's what the hardcore fans really want and fix it with DLC updates that expand the map and add all the missing races in.
I'm okay with this on the proviso that it's only one fucking DLC released a few months after the main release so they've had time to get results and produces fixes.
Wasnt the fourth faction going to be vampire counts or something? Weird how they did the preorder chaos before them
>>44089590
That's only 1 city of azyr
>>44089837
>City
That's clearly a space station.
>>44089826
There are four factions.
Empire, Dwarves, Orcs, Vampires.
Those are all in the base game.
Chaos is the fifth faction.
I do agree that vampire would make more sense as the pre-order faction.
>>44089623
Lustria is
>>44089859
That too but theyve put up videos of the pre-order race with textures and models and all that but we havent seen anything of the counts. Makes me think theyre going to postpone them and patch them in later
>>44089849
I know, but they call it city
Or sigmarion
I prefer city
>>44089878
We could see some Vampire Counts units in the distance in the Orc campaign video.
>>44089849
>>That's no Chaos moon
>>44089870
skaven are technically beast-men of a sort
>>44089884
Seriously weird that they went with the counts though. Ive never felt they were particularly important to WHFB. They were beastmen tier. Why not skaven? And i say that as someone who hates skaven
>>44089918
Eh. I guess they felt that Skaven were easier to leave out, what with the whole "living underground" thing, while they couldn't really have the map area they wanted without Sylvania.
>>44089743
>>44089766
It's fantasy. You need elves. All the LotR people will be asking where are they.
>>44090154
High Elves and Dark Elves are fine.
>>44089547
>And yet life is still shit.
What does that even mean? Over 20k people die of hunger every day. In XXIth century modern world. Half of the human population live in poverty.
People in Warhammer have it bad because? What, beastmen or orcs are going to come? How is that different from Mongols or Berbers in real world? Or your crazy local noble? What else, evil cultists? We have evil cultists in modern world too.
Warhammer was not the grimderp shit Ward loves so much. They fucking ruined it in the recent years with their impending end of the world by Archaon and Garu Stu parade.
>>44089918
Think about the campaign map. Vamps border the Empire and almost destroyed Altdorf 2 times. Chaos lands are far to the North.
This is also why Wood Elves should be the first elf faction. They are right next to the Empire.
>>44090185
http://www.criticalmiss.com/issue8/jameswallisreplies1.html
>>44090185
No, WHFB was a shithole.
>>44090185
Warhammer Fantasy setting was always a shithole for humans.
You had all the shittiest parts of actual medieval/renaissances life with the added horrors of random mutation and the resulting witch hunts, actual monsters trying to fuck your shit up on a routine basis, the fucking reality that if you died the wrong way your soul could be tormented for eternity either on the mortal plane or as the playstuff of a daemonic creation beyond your capacity for comprehension.
>>44089859
Yeah but surely Sega sat down and went 'what faction's going to be OP as fuck out of the factions you guys have created' and because of the way Chaos works in the fluff they picked that as the DLC faction?
>>44090268
Don't forget Nurglite Mpreg.
>>44090204
Alright, lets break it down:
The Empire - The heart of the Old World as a setting. 'nuff said.
Dwarfs - Alright, dwarfs have always been pretty tied in with humans and a lot of their core settlements border the human lands nicely.
Bretonnia - Other side of the Grey Mountains. I guess if the map doesn't include that area...oookay...but if the map is going down as far as the Border Princes, it really aught to be as wide as Bretonnia. They are a major player.
Lizardmen - Way off in fucking nowhere. Unless there is a raid or a massive incursion, good call for not being a starter.
High Elves - Ditto' the High Elves. They belong on or near the oceans.
Dark Elves - Keep the good times rolling. Same again. Unless Dark Elves are marauding, they aren't normally a massive force in the Old World. More an occasional threat for coastal regions.
Warriors/Daemons of Chaos - Hmmm...I'll give them a pass on this one, because it's coming as a DLC. But Chaos has always been a massive lure for Warhammer. So it's probably just a decision based on cash.
Beastmen - Now we enter WTF territory. I can give this a pass if Beastmen are included in the Chaos expansion, but Beastmen have always fucking INFESTED the forests around the Empire. True they don't get riled up into the massive armies you would see in this game often, but they are fucking their.
>>44090406
Orcs & Goblins - All over the fucking place. Good call.
Skaven - All over the place. Bad call. Or questionable. They are everywhere and have the right sort of numbers to make sense to be included. I'm guessing they are holding this back for when they expand into the Underground aspect of Warhammer. The Skaven and Dwarfs (and Night Goblins, I suppose...) are masters of the underworld environment - but Skaven dominate it as a setting. If you include the rats, you need the sewers. I can see that fundamentally changing a big chunk of the gameplay and how badly it would skew it towards the rats/dwarfs/goblins.
Vampire Counts - An interesting choice, but given their location and size - good call.
Tomb Kings - See my Lizardman response.
Chaos Dwarfs - Small numbers, way the fuck in the middle of nowhere. I'd be surpised if they make it in as their own faction, honestly and weren't just rolled in as an evil option for mercenaries like...
Dogs of War - Mercenary option. Plain and simple.
Yeah, looking at it - Wood Elves are the odd one out.
They are in the right spot, they have the right strength to stand up to the armies we'd be playing against.
I guess they just didn't fit the core story line for the initial release?
>>44089002
>He apparently somehow had the power to have Warrior Priests perform miracles
This is highly questionable and never elaborated on in the fluff. It is strongly suggested that miracles are just simplified magical rituals that work due to the vast quantities of faith in the gods being pumped into the Warp by humans.
>Why do starting classes in the role playing game matter in the grand scheme of things?
Now you're just pretending to be retarded.
>>44089036
>Did you ever read any of the Warhammer RPG lore books?
Let's not bring novels or RPG books into this - not when there's a wealth of army books, rulebooks and pure fluff books that have been released by GW that elaborate on all of this.
>>44090323
>>When ready, the Nurgling climbs through the alimentary canal and leaves its host by one end or another.
>>by one end or another
>>44090185
>>People in Warhammer have it bad because?
Is randomly shitting, pissing or vomiting up a lesser daemon of disease and stagnation that will go on to do it's utmost to make your life a living hell a bad enough reason to differentiate it from just regularly shit Medieval/Renaissance life? Or do they need to be on fire when it happens to satisfy your bloodlust?
You fucking monster.
>>44090448Which end would you prefer?
so this is the usual AoS shitpost thread?
>>44089002
>>He apparently somehow had the power to have Warrior Priests perform miracles and Lileath was able to grant magic powers to certain knights.
It's been argued that miracles in Warhammer are just another flavour of magic. Lileath did grant magic powers to her knights, but those guys became living legends within the setting. She didn't churn out a fucking army of them like goddamn clone vats.
>>Is that why they were larger, stronger, tougher? Why basically the Empire's only defense was possibly numbers and the ability to fighting as a united force?
And superior technology. Say it with me now, Steam Tanks.
>>Marauders were normal men, but Chaos Warriors were superhuman to varying levels.
Marauders were Norse Vikings who had their own shit going on. They lived their lives outside of all that Chaos shit. Cattle herders, farmers, potters.
Chaos Warriors were the berserker fanatics who dedicated their entire existence to their gods. And they weren't that much stronger or tougher than a regular man. Though often more touched by the ruinous powers.
They weren't even close to superhuman, barring rare special named characters who stood out from the throng and lived to prove my point.
>>Both things which ultimately play second fiddle to the tabletop game and are even dubious because they can just as well be about killing and looting as politics with a preference for the latter.
Playing second fiddle to a wargame doesn't change the fact that the material was there and that the setting was richer than what you would see if all you gave a shit about were the miniatures and the mechanics.
>>44090185
>life is shit in WHF
>BUT SO IT WAS IN REAL LIFE WHAT IS YOUR POINT HERP DERP?!
You're missing the point. The fact that life is shit because it is just like real life is part of the appeal, you fucking pleb.
>>44090529
>Chaos Warriors were the berserker fanatics who dedicated their entire existence to their gods. And they weren't that much stronger or tougher than a regular man. Though often more touched by the ruinous powers.
Bullshit.
I have read lore where Chaos Warriors fight toe to toe with Orgres and Orcs.
Heck, in AoS Chaos Warriors are a match for the Stormcast Eternals who are certainly superhuman.
>>44089002
>>You're entire premise is that because Fantasy is vaguely similar in certain aspects to ASOIAF and GoT that people would give a shit about, completely missing the importance of focus.
AoS focus is entirely different to the Warhammer Fantasy focus. The fact that it's broken the fanbase as hard as it has should point to that.
Warhammer had a stronger focus on the little people and the lives they lead. Whilst it was a very fantastical setting, it always tried to play itself as low fantasy. Magic was dangerous, rarely seen by commoners and generally feared. Monsters were nightmares that people prayed they never encountered. AoS plays out more like a high fantasy setting.
The best analogy I can think of is that WFB feels more like the stories of Odysseus, but AoS is just flat out the story of the Gods. There's nothing wrong with either flavour, but they are two extremely distinct styles of fantasy and liking one doesn't mean you'll love the other.
>>Why do starting classes in the role playing game matter in the grand scheme of things?
Because it represents the focus of the setting.
Your characters, the heroes of the story, are the living, beating heart of the Warhammer world. They are the people who dig shit out of your trenches, chop down your trees and poison your rats.
It highlights where the heart of Warhammer lies. In the common folk.
It's like the difference between Deathwatch and Only War.
Both are about a squad of soldiers fighting the enemies of the Imperium. But one focuses on heroes out of legend that can cut a swathe through those foes. The other is based around the cattle that gets driven before them, the hammer to their scalpel, that usually really on brute numbers to get the job done.
Extremely different tones and flavours of sci-fi. But at least Deathwatch didn't have to blow up the fucking Emperor to make it's setting.
>>44089889
Yes, but I think you get the point or the source I was taking into consideration
Plus there's been no real skaven settlement there for a very long time, the corruption of chaos is relatively distant in those lands
>>44090591
>>I have read lore where Chaos Warriors fight toe to toe with Orgres and Orcs.
And I've read where Goblins have dropped Chaos Warriors. Fuck, I've seen it happen in tabletop.
Dwarfs take on Dragons and Giants on such a regular interval that Dragon Slayers and Giant Slayers are a hero choices.
These things go part in parcel with the setting.
Regular humans have taken on Ogres and Orcs too. It says more for their fighting prowess and even luck than anything else.
Warriors of Chaos generally have a Strength/Toughness of 4 compared to the Human average of 3.
That's not a huge difference. Enough to make them stand out as tougher and stronger, sure. But it's a far cry from superhuman.
>>44090591
>>Heck, in AoS Chaos Warriors are a match for the Stormcast Eternals who are certainly superhuman.
And I don't see how AoS balancing Chaos Warriors in a new game system and setting has to serve as an example for how they were balanced out in the old game/setting. Those fuckers survived the end of the world and are in a new game that is essential 'GodWar'.
>D&D is about quests for glory and riches; WFRP pretends to be the same, but in fact is about the PCs' day-to-day fight for survival in a universe that hates them. If you don't finish each adventure worse off than when you started it, your GM is doing something wrong. If you find yourself in a WFRP adventure and not knee-deep in shit then duck, because another load is past due. And if you do something really stupid like getting addicted to drugs because they give you combat bonuses -- and I've heard some really idiotic reasons for getting hooked, but that one takes the tab -- then you deserve everything that's coming to you.
>>44090684
James Wallis. Head of Hogshead Publishing back when they were the ones in charge of WFRP. Responsible for a big chunk of how players view the Warhammer setting.
>>44090665
>That's not a huge difference. Enough to make them stand out as tougher and stronger, sure. But it's a far cry from superhuman.
I disagree,
See picture related. The Warrior of Chaos in that picture is as huge as the Stormcast eternals who are basically Space Marines compared to normal humans in proportions.
>>44090665
Anon, space marines have a strength and tougness of 4 compared to a humans 3
>>44090703
See >>44090679
As I mentioned before, you're discussing a different game and setting. One that is focused more on struggles between Demi-titans, as opposed to Warhammers focus on battles between grimy thugs trying not to die.
Disagree all you want, but they changed the setting at a fundamental level. What you see in that picture is not a Warhammer Warrior of Chaos. It is an Age of Sigmar Warrior of Chaos. How they choose to depict them in AoS and in relation to everything else in AoS is up to them, but it isn't backwards compatible across to a different setting and system.
>>44090679
>Those fuckers survived the end of the world and are in a new game that is essential 'GodWar'.
Most of the WoC guys in AoS are converts from the Mortal Realms. Normal tribesmen who choose Chaos over annihilation.
They are pretty much the same as the Norsemen/Northmen of the Old World but more diverse.
>>44090697
>James Wallis. Head of Hogshead Publishing back when they were the ones in charge of WFRP. Responsible for a big chunk of how players view the Warhammer setting.
I know, it's just such a fucking perfect quote that really encapsulates the entire issue that I had to quote it straight up.
I'd never read that before it was linked in the thread, but that entire article put words to the WHF setting as I feel it was, without it ever being explained to me before.
I think that says a lot about Warhammer Fantasy's appeal and why people are hating Age of Shitmar and the End Times. They completely lost that feel, and never seem to have understood the appeal of the setting.
And James Wallis put words to it almost a decade and a half ago, and I never even knew.
Also, let's not forget that Warriors of Chaos are not all equal. There's a huge difference between some neophyte from nowhere and someone leading a warhost.
>>44090711
In the tabletop they do, but in the RPGs it's closer to 30 vs 180ish.
I'm referring to Warhammer Fantasy. Where even in the RPG, it still translated as a flat one to one difference.
Shit, even in the updated second edition WFRP Chaos Warriors only had a 44% in Strength.
And for fuck sake Anon, everyone knows that Marines as they are displayed on the tabletop =/= Marines in the lore.
If you wanted to bring out the Movie Marine's stats and use their strength as an example, that'd be a better fit.
>>44090722
Again, see >>44090721
You're talking about a different setting and system.
Based on your argument, either everyone became superhuman or all your superhumans are actually just buff regular guys.
It's looking more and more like the same issue that plagues 40k. The fluff and stories all suggest that these characters are stupidly strong, but you have to make the game balanced and somewhat playable.
So you end up with Str 4 Space Marines.
>>44090721
>Chaos Warriors are fighters of unmatched prowess. Their strength is infernal and their bodies are as tough as the Iron Mountains. Imbued with the power of Chaos and encased in suits of hell-forged armour, a Chaos Warrior is equal to several battle-hardened mortal men. They are no longer truly human, but living weapons, honed perfectly for the bloody tasks before them.
>When a man pledges his soul to Chaos, he chooses a lifetime of battle and bloodshed. H is life will be harsh, but even the most battle hardened fighter can find momentary solace in a flagon of mead by the hearth, or in the arms of a woman. However, if such a man were to ever don a suit of Chaos armour and take up the mantle of a Chaos Warrior, he would forever leave behind such petty mortal concerns as comfort, warmth and love. He will have exchanged his humanity for a life of constant war in the name of their Ruinous Powers, and for dark promises of power and immortality.
>A Chaos Warrior has no need of food, drink or sleep, for he is nourished by the carnage that he wreaks. H e has nothing but contempt for the weak or the cowardly and goes about the business of murder with a vengeance, for there is always a part of the man who was that rages against that which he has become. A Chaos W arrior’s only solace is in slaughter — the fulfilment of his new existence as an instrument of his blasphemous gods’ will, and at battle’s end, his armour is spattered with the lifeblood of the slain.
-8th ED Chaos Warrior AM
The lore pretty much states that they are inhuman instruments of destruction that no longer need to sleep or nourish themselves.
>>44090729
>>And James Wallis put words to it almost a decade and a half ago, and I never even knew.
Fuck, now I feel old. I used to lurk on the Critical Miss forums back when Nexus still updated semi-regularly. Even got in on the Church of Wallis as a joke. Hard to believe it was 15 years ago already.
If you can find it, check up some of the other WFRP related articles on Critical Miss. Wolfgang's scams are great.
>>44090776
Chaos Warriors are a far cry from Stormhost Eternals. They are still mortal men. Most of them, anyway.
All the army books tend to be boastful as to the prowess of the warriors they were focused around. But even baring that in mind, Chaos Warriors are still only just tougher than normal. Fuck, they're basically just buff guys in full plate. That's it.
Everything on top of that is literally dependent on how Chaos has touched or changed them. It won't effect them all the same.
>>"They know how to fight. That's what you have to remember about the. People talk about the strength of their armour, or the ferocity of the Blood God's worshippers, or the intimidating look of the horns and spikes. It's their sheer skill at war that wins them battles, though.
WFRP 2nd Ed. Beastiary.
The army books paint them as inhuman killing machines, because it's a wargame that focuses on that aspect.
And to be fair, everything they describe more accurately applies to the Chaos Lords and Heroes.
Someone said that marauders are not connected to Chaos and that they plow and farm?
>The tribes of Northmen that flock southwards with any Chaos invasion are known by those in their path as Chaos Marauders. These savage barbarians fight with heavy axes and cruelly barbed flails, and charge in great howling mobs towards the foe. They have little fear of dying in battle, for they know that they fight under the scrutiny of their gods, and that cowards are beneath their deities’ notice.
>Chaos Marauders are natural fighters, born into hardship and brought up in a world where surviving each day is no small victory. Only the strong and capable prosper, for the weak are weeded out and killed. They have no time for plough or sickle, for their tools are the axe, the sword and the shield. What their own lands cannot provide, they simply take from the lands of lesser men.
>Comparing the men of the north to those who dwell in the temperate south is to compare a wolf to a sheep. Where the southerners cower behind the high walls of their cities, the warriors of the north roam the far corners of the world in search of adventure and plunder. Where the soft-bellied denizens of the Empire glut themselves on fine wine and cheese in front of the fireplace, the hardened Northmen rip into raw meat with their bare hands and teeth. The men of the south complain bitterly about going abroad in fog or sleet, where the men of the north brave fierce blizzards clad in little more than scraps of flea-infested fur. Small wonder then, that Marauder attacks are feared across the Old World.
They are the Wolf Men.
>>44090776
>implying there exists no transition in-between buff human, gifted human and dark-gods powered human.
You're stupid.
>>44090908
The fluff puts the default as dark powered human. The moment a northman put on that Chaos armor he ceases to be human and becomes a tool of the gods.
>>44088824
What is this even meant to be. I don't understand what the scale is or what the things I'm looking at are meant to be.
>>44090891
Tome of Corruption.
The Norse are just viking analogues.They fish. They trade. The hunt. They entertain.
Some join the armies of Chaos and become Marauders.
But the Norse are the Norse. Not all of them worship Chaos. And not all of those that do are crazed zealots.
>>44090954
Is that FFG?
>>44090933
>>The moment a northman put on that Chaos armor he ceases to be human and becomes a tool of the gods.
I'll pay that. But not all tools of the gods are unstoppable killing machines.
In fact, they are very stoppable. Very mortal. Very squishy inside their metal cans.
Just like regular buff guys in magical armour.
Once Chaos starts taking a special interest in them, that's when things get fun.
>>44090954
I find it hard to imagine an actual civilization co-existing with chaos pawns.
>>44090934
The red ball is a sun.
The blue ball is Malus which is what's left of the old world.
The brown ball is a moon.
The white stuff surrounding the sun is a city.
The tower thingy on the moon is Sigmar's stronghold.
I will never get over GW just wiping the WHF world.
A total shake up of the game and introducing Sigmarines? Totally get why they did that.
But WIPE the WORLD?! Are they insane? They had such a good setting!
Fucking idiots.
All this idiotic arguing won't achieve anything.
Chaos warriors fit in WHFB and meshed well with the feel of the setting, Sigmarines don't and never would. If you cannot see why that is your problem.
Because compared to GW, CA knows what they are doing.
Holy hell is that a sentence that was stage to type.
>>44090874
Face it, you're talking shit
>>44087187
"A durpa de hurpa de durpa hurpa :DDDDD"
-GW on why they do things
>>44090978
>The white stuff surrounding the sun is a city.
Space station.
>>44090933
The fluff describes, not defines, them.
There's a path to be taken, things to learn and gifts to earn.
A norseman fighting for his god is a warrior of chaos regardless of armour
A strong norseman in a big suit of armour that fights for chaos too is a warrior of chaos, this doesn't inherently make them inhuman daemonic entities.
This, of course, doesn't mean that there're not ones who follow the posted description.
How many people are needed to pull your head out of your ass just to make you eat?
>>44091612
Nope, you are taking shit, anon. The green text defines what a Chaos Warrior and its straight from the WoC army book. I am suppose to take your word over the actual fluff? no.
A Norsemen is not called a Warrior of Chaos unless he reaches this level (>>44090776).
>>44091651
Posting the entire page for FYI.
Warriors of Chaos or Chaos Warriors are the elites of the Chaos hordes. They are not just norsemen who put on a mundane armor.
>>44091651
>A Norsemen is not called a Warrior of Chaos unless he reaches this level
[citation needed]
Is he a warrior?
Yes
Does he fight for chaos?
Yes
Why shouldn't he be called a warrior of chaos in every regard bar statlines? Apart from your autistic tantrums, unreasonable twists and degenerate attention whoring, that is.
>>44090954
>Norse Dwarf
Why have I not heard of this before? There's norse dwarves? There's chaos dwarves other than the babylonian dwarves and their aztec sacrifices?
>>44091778
You
see
>>44091703
As a group they are called Warriors of Chaos.
But they are differences between, say, a Chaos Marauder and a Chaos Warrior.
A Chaos Warrior is no longer human anymore and requires no sleep or food to function. They are touched and warped by the gods beyond mortal concerns.
A Chaos marauder is just a human norse warrior who fits for Chaos. He is still human with human needs and doesn't bear much from the gifts of the gods.
>>44091778
The warriors of Chaos barely ever hail from Norsca
They're from those other tribes way closer to the Chaos Wastes, the Kurgan, those guys are much tougher than the Norse.
>>44091824
fights for*
>>44091824
And they are as hard as the iron mountains!1!1
And can literally use figures of speech and exaggeration to make autists cream their pants at AANIMEE power levels and misunderstood absolutes!1!
>>44091824
You're not a Warrior of Chaos until you've taken your Chaos Pilgrimage and gotten sealed in your magic armor that's what that title means.
You might as well try to argue that anyone that picks up a sword and rides a horse is a knight.
>>44090972
>I find it hard to imagine an actual civilization co-existing with chaos pawns.
Yet there's multiple.
The Great Horned Rat is likely just an aspect of Nurgle, and while barbaric, the Skaven are most certainly a civilization. A vast one.
The Chaos Dwarves are arguably the most "ancient high culture"-esque of all the nations of the Old World.
The norscans/norse are tribal, but it's definitely a civilization, with a lot of infighting between the tribes, which alternately venerate different gods, but both khorne and tzeentch are big ones. A lot of them see it more or less as a polytheistic faith where all are venerated by different people in society.
>>44087187
I wish they'd made it 40k.
>>44090972
Norsca is further from the Chaos Wastes than it might seem, there's even a fairly wide body of water dividing them.
Norsca is largely made up of autonomous tribes, they're not at all a united people.
>>44091893
Dude, if you don't have anything to say then please be silent.
The thing is the fluff makes it clear and defines what a Chaos tribesman and what a Chaos Warrior are. What a mundane servant of Chaos is and what a god touched Chaos Warrior is.
The best example since you are a Aoser is seeing the difference between the Blood Reavers (The chaft) and the Blood Warriors (God touched). The Blood Reavers are normal warriors who die by the dozen to the the Stormcast, and the Blood Warriors are the guys who fight the Stormcast at an equal level.Less than 42 hours to ANIMMMME!
>>44091897
>You're not a Warrior of Chaos until you've taken your Chaos Pilgrimage and gotten sealed in your magic armor that's what that title means.
That's what I am saying, A Chaos Warrior is someone who graduated and got the favor of the gods and a Chaos armor.
The other guy was saying that all of them were Chaos Warriors which is plainly wrong.
>AoS
>New Coke
>>44090972
Chaos is not about destroying the world. They need worshipers. They need souls. They need humans to amuse them.
Chaos just destroying all life is completely fucking retarded. This is why retards like Ward need to be fucking executed.
>>44091849
>the Kurgan
Funny, Ramirez's little speech about that guy reminds me of why the Empire/WHFB was popular with many people.
>how do you fight such a savage?
>with heart, faith, steel
>>44092057
You do know that since like 3th ED the lore says that Chaos wanted to destroy the world and everything in it? Thats why before Ward.
And who says that Chaos is rational? And who says that the WHFB world was the only world in the universe that Chaos cares about?
>>44090729
It's the same case as Star Wars Prequels. George Lucas don't understand Star Wars. And writers in charge of Warhammer Fantasy in it's final years didn't understand Warhammer Fantasy.
>>44090776
>-8th ED Chaos Warrior AM
>8th ED
So written by the same retards who wrote End Times.
>>44090684
Great quote. Applies if you're playing an 40k RPGs as well.
>>44092232
It's the same text from the 7th ED book copypasted in the 8th ED book, dude.
>>44092168
>And writers in charge of Warhammer Fantasy in it's final years didn't understand Warhammer
Yup, they looked at Space Marines doing well and WoW doing well and tried combining the two
>>44092101
>Chaos wanted to destroy the world and everything in it?
Destroy human kingdoms. Crush the civilization. Take control of the entire planet and then wage endless wars for the amusement of Chaos Gods.
Not literally destroy the world and kill all life.
>>44090406
Maybe Beastmen are just rebels?
>>44092309
This is most likely what they are going to be until they get their own DLC.
>>44092299
>>The physical and spiritual corruption of the races engineered by the Old Slann will ultimately destroy them. Even creatures created by the forces of Chaos are doomed to extinction. For, with Chaos' final triumph, all life will decay into a seething mass of protoplasm in which lost and screaming souls float helplessly, enduring the forms thrust upon them by the uncaring gods of Chaos. But the victory of Chaos, although certain, may be delayed - for Lawful and other non-Chaotic void creatures will strive to protect their own identities and ideals. With the victory of Chaos, they too will be swept back into the voids to rejoin the identities from which they were created as the gateways fell.
-WFRP 1st edition p. 268
They wanted to kill everything. Mortal, beast, and god. Even it says that their servants would die too.
>>44092333
I honestly wouldn't be particularly upset if Beastmen just stayed an unplayable rebel faction forever.
I'd much rather have them in there as rebels from the start and never have them playable than have to wait for them to get finished as DLC.
>>44092344
And then do what? Die of boredom while staring at each other?
>>44092406
No.
There are infinite worlds and realities out there for them to invade and destroy. WHFB was a grain of sand to them.
>>44092424
When was the concept of a multiverse actually introduced to the Warhammer setting?
>>44092480
6th ED "Hordes of Chaos" .
>>44087187
It doesn't really make a lot of sense. All the recent burst of Warhammer Fantasy releases like Vermintide, Mordheim, and now Total War are all set in the Old World. For those trying to hold a semblance of hope, if all of these together do well enough maybe there'll be Old World support in the tabletop again? If newbies try to get into the hobby expecting a lower more grounded form of fantasy and see the high as fuck fantasy of AoS maybe they'll be dissuaded by that and then Old World Fantasy would become the better option.
Though myself I just really want Warmaster to come back (it's Fantasy's equivalent of Epic for those that don't know.) My hope is that eventually Warmaster and Epic come back and that's all I play in terms of Warhammer.
>>44092424
In the first edition. When Fantasy world was one of the planets in 40k. That was silently retconed.
>>44092000
>defines
Describes, not defines
Stop trying to impose your shitty means of comprehension of basic fictional text on others, it's wrong, pathetic and disgusting
>>44092544
Total War will certainly do great. TW games sold millions and this one seems to be gathering the most attention the series ever did. Just look at the number of views their trailers get.
>>44092034
>The other guy was saying that all of them were Chaos Warriors which is plainly wrong
You got it wrong again, Jesus Christ when will you learn to read?
>>44092590
Nope.
It defines what a Chaos warrior is. Stop trying to twist what's in the fluff into something utterly else.
>>44092633
Wrong about what?
>>44092544
Could be they're trying to make buck on the old beloved setting now that GWs stopped making shit for it.
>>44092688
Now I'm only waiting for FFG to make the 4e rpg.
>>44088852
what happened in 2005 to put them in the toilet?
>tfw when this is about this time i got into the game
>frog.png
>>44092397
Yeh i imagine it will be like when public order gets too low in other total war games, though this one will more likely have winds of magic being the reason behind a beastmen incursion.
If you could play them they would probably play like the huns in attila
>>44088541
>i kinda like sigmarmarine
I'm sorry that you suffer from such shit taste Anon, I hope you can get some help.
>>44087187
CA actually said that they went to both Christopher Tolkien and George RR Martin to get the rights to Lorder of the Rings and Game of a Thrones respectively, but neither offered a reasonable price. Gdubs did.
CA does still plan on making a Lord of the Rings Total War at some point in the future though.
>>44094837
LoTR would make a great total war game.
Not too sure about GoT because its mainly focused on political intrigue, although the CK2 GoT mod is pretty fun to play.
>>44088713
I just hope they won't touch 40K.
>>44095144
Relic will firebomb CA if they don't get the rights to Dawn of War: Chapter Master. Have no fear, anon
I am glad we are getting a Warhammer Total War. And I think I heard from an interview its a lot more singleplayer focused in terms of balance.... But I fear, I fear for all the DLC bullshit they will put us through. Not only Chaos, but in one of their movies we saw bretonnia on the battlemap which makes me fear that they have "finished" bretonnia as a faction but are going to sell it as day 1 DLC or 2-4 week later.
>>44095549
I think to have read bretonnia were hinted if not outright said as the first free dlc actually.
Probably because of the smaller selection of units if I had to guess.
>>44095549
You can expect with absolute certainty that if you want to play everyone, you are gonna have to fork out the cash.
If the game is any good (which is not a certain thing), I'd honestly say to wait. Wait for patches, wait for all the expansion stuff, wait for sale prices.
>>44096078
Just wait for the next Steam sale. Total War games are always in them.
>>44095842
And the fact that they're human, which instantly makes them far easier, faster and thus cheaper to make than every other WH faction. They can do basically everything with skeletons they already had on hand (man, horse, trebuchet) with fairly simple medieval-style gear.
Brettonia is effectively just another run of the mill Total War army compared to the others.
>>44095842
Bretonnia is all but confirmed to be the first post-launch DLC. The core game ships with half of the country on the map, and one of the trailers showed what could have been knights there.
>>44097472
One of the trailers has several Brettonian armies standing around in Brettonia in full view, along with what appears to be King Leon Leoncour himself. They're already in the game, just not playable at the moment.
>>44090406
>Bretonnia
You see some Bretonnian stuff on the orc campaign map. My guess is they're early DLC after Warriors of Chaos.
>>44090419
>Skaven
Skaven are probably being saved for the Lustria/Ulthuan/Naggaroth expansion that will introduce Lizards, High and Dark Elves. Lizardmen and Skaven are mortal enemies, it would make sense to introduce them together.
You forgot the Ogre Kingdoms.
>>44097757
>Lustria/Ulthuan/Naggaroth expansion
>scarcely dressed witch elves
My body is ready.
>>44091408
Face it, you've got nothing to back the idea that every Chaos Warrior is automatically a superhuman killing machine.
>>44091612
>THIS
>>44091813
They've never been huge in the setting, but they make for a great concept. A lot more violent than regular dwarfs.
>>44091824
A Chaos Warrior is just a zealot of chaos who has reached a level that the Lords of Chaos, be they the gods, daemon princes or greater daemons, take an interest.
The idea that every Chaos Warrior is a carbon copy cookie cutter is ridiculous. The army books exaggerate what they are for effect. They are all touched in different ways.
But they are all mortal, and are not that much better than a decently trained warrior. Hence the Str/Tgh 4. If they get significantly changed and powerful to the point where they stop being considered mortal, they'd be closer to the Hero or Lord level.
A Chaos Warrior has been touched by Chaos. But they aren't all suddenly demi-god level. Plenty of them die fairly regularly. The ones that make it to Lord level are few and far between.
>>44092000
I think what he is pointing out is that the entry on Chaos Warriors is clearly rife with hyperbole.
>>44092087
>crazy scotsman
>>44092309
Ooh, I hadn't considered that. That's actually a fairly acceptable compromise for a few of the races. Wood Elves included.
>>44092634
I think the Chaos Armour/Chaos Warrior argument is similar to the Witch Hunters Hat and Guns / Witch Hunter one.
You CAN be a Chaos Warrior without being embued with Chaos Armour just like you can be a Witch Hunter without the puritan hat. But no-one would believe you.
>>44097757
>>You forgot the Ogre Kingdoms.
Fuck. I guess they'd fall into a similar boat as the Chaos Dwarfs. In the wrong area for the map, mostly.
>>44087187
You can't make a 40k version because 20 different factions of Space Marines and 6 factions of Xenos isn't particularly exciting.
>>44098278
>Face it, you've got nothing to back the idea that every Chaos Warrior is automatically a superhuman killing machine.
Chaos Warriors have all been imbued with gifts from the dark gods to some degree.
They live to kill and possess superhuman powers so yes they are quite literally superhuman killing machines, particularly in the case of khornes worshipers.
>>44099035
>>They live to kill
They live to serve their Gods, but yeah, a big chunk of their time is probably going to be spent in war unless they are given more subversive plans.
>>possess superhuman powers
Arguable. They don't automatically suddenly get superhuman strength, toughness and agility. Some of them might, but they tend to get to Hero levels.
Having a third eye in your forehead is hardly a superhuman power.
They get mutations. Some of these mutations may give them great powers. Some might just be cosmetic.
>>particularly in the case of khornes worshipers.
Fair enough.
Chaos Warriors =/= Superhumans. If they were, they'd be leading armies rather than being shock troops.
>>44099192
>Arguable. They don't automatically suddenly get superhuman strength, toughness and agility
If they are gifted any powers by their god which a human does not already possess then they are superhuman by definition
>>44098278
>Face it, you've got nothing to back the idea that every Chaos Warrior is automatically a superhuman killing machine.
It's not automatic. You earn the right to be a superhuman by getting a god's attention.
Chaos Marauders are ordinary dudes. Chaos Warriors get extra muscles and magic armour bonded to their skin. The best human warriors can take them on but they're straight up more capable than ordinary humans of comparable experience, ie, literally superhuman.
>People still calling the Stormcast Sigmarines when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that they are nothing like Space Marines
>People still comparing Varanguard's prices to Chaos Knights instead of the actual Chaos Knights which are about the same price as before
>Calling AoS for kiddies when they themselves aren't smart enough to get the AoS lore
>All this ignorant hating on AoS when its skirmish style actually is more akin to what WHFB and 40k used to be in their heyday (an interesting combo between an RPG and a wargame)
>As a result AoS is bringing back what made Warhammer unique among wargames while also making a more original fantasy setting that is less reliant on the uber popular Tolkien tropes
>STILL nothing but ignorance shown towards it
This situation is no different from DnD 4e hate. 4e is the only good edition of DnD having the best balance and was actually really good at what it wanted to do even though what it wanted to do was different. Though you know what? Actually fuck all you haters. You guys were the same autistic nerds that used to play Warhammer back in high school and gave the whole franchise a bad name. It would be better if you guys get out of Warhammer.
>>44099238
>>superhuman by definition
Generally speaking, superhuman refers to abilities or powers that exceeds the ordinary.
Chaos Warriors can reach those lofty heights, but the rank and file are not. All their representations merely put them at the upper end of human normal. I mean shit, a human character can start with nearly comparable skills and stats - if not better - with some lucky rolls.
>>44099308
>>The best human warriors can take them on but they're straight up more capable than ordinary humans of comparable experience, ie, literally superhuman.
See attached stats.
A Chaos Warrior is beefier than a normal human, but unless they've been given gifts greater than just a suit of armour, they are comparable with regular veterans.
>>44099511
>Implying Chaos Warriors don't get things like Marks that sheerly put them above every other infantry unit in the game making them beyond Superhuman
>>44099511
>Chaos Warriors can reach those lofty heights
Chaos warriors have been given gifts from their god and fused with their armour. Their skin literally becomes plate armour.
Your basic chaos warrior is above human
>>44099427
As a system, I see nothing special about it. It's an interesting new direction for GW to take, and I'm curious to see what they do with it. It doesn't interest me as being worth playing, because if I wanted to play a combination RPG/Wargame I'd go to Mordheim or Necromunda. The setting is still thin on the ground, but it's early days yet and it needs time to grow organically.
Most Warhammer fans accept this.
What causes the hate is that, rather than just discontinue the Warhammer Fantasy line and say they are moving in a new direction, they decided to blow it up and dance in the wreckage. Which, understandably, upset the fans.
A big chunk of the backlash against AoS is because of that decision, and not because of AoS specifically. AoS, at it's worse, can be called lack lustre and empty. But it's literally the first incarnation, so I'm content to give it time to grow and see what it's like in five or ten years from now.
>>44099636
>As a system, I see nothing special about it.
> It's an interesting new direction for GW to take
What? I am confused. You seem to be contradictory here.
>What causes the hate is that, rather than just discontinue the Warhammer Fantasy line and say they are moving in a new direction, they decided to blow it up and dance in the wreckage. Which, understandably, upset the fans.
That's NO REASON to hate on the guys who are working hard on AoS it was not THEIR decision to discontinue Fantasy.
>AoS, at it's worse, can be called lack lustre and empty
>early days yet and it needs time to grow organically
Now this I agree with mainly because it is true. More stuff needs to get released for it to make a true decision on how it actually is. Right now they only have support for Stormcast and Khorne Bloodbound to the level that each individual faction normally has in a GW game.
>>44099620
>Their skin literally becomes plate armour.
You can get the same effect from - shock horror - wearing plate armour.
>Your basic chaos warrior is above human
Not even close. They are still human. Extremely so. It's why the goal of most Chaos Warriors is to transcend that and join the ranks of Daemonhood.
>>44099589
>Implying that either having frenzy, causing fear, being immune to psychology or adding more dice in the spell casting phase is beyond what normal humans are capable of in the WFRP setting.
I am beginning to suspect that none of you are aware of the difference between a Chaos Warrior and a Chosen of Chaos.
>>44099749
>You can get the same effect from - shock horror - wearing plate armour.
You have to be retarded if you think that having plate armour for skin isn't a superhuman trait.
I guess superhuman speed isn't a superhuman trait because I can just get into a plane right?
Superhuman strength isn't superhuman at all because I can just use a forklift right?
>They are still human.
Because having plate armour for skin and other assorted magic shit is perfectly common amongst humans right?
Think before you type man, jesus.
>>44099714
>What? I am confused. You seem to be contradictory here.
How? I don't see anything special about it, but it is an interesting new direction for GW to take. I just don't find it to be a special one.
How is that hard to comprehend?
>That's NO REASON to hate on the guys who are working hard on AoS it was not THEIR decision to discontinue Fantasy.
I agree completely. The team working on AoS are coping fallback from something that was not their fault. I wish they'd have released AoS as a stand alone without affecting the Warhammer setting, it'd be interesting to see what people would think of it without being tainted by the loss.
>>44099749
>Just because they can do these superhuman feats doesn't mean they are superhuman
That's literally what you're saying.
>>44099427
Are you fucking kidding me? AoS has the worst fucking lore I've ever seen. It's a complete and utter ugly buttfuck of nothing. I don't know how many times I've fucking read over summaries and shit of that lore and I'm bored to tears.
Was WHFB a thundering train of originality? No, but it felt like it's own thing you know when something is Warhammer, it had a look and an atmosphere to it. AoS is a clusterfuck of really trite high fantasy WoW-tier bastardizes babby's first Norse mythology garbage.
>>44099849
Do you think that people who sit on their couch for so long their skin grows into it have become superhuman?
Because that's what Chaos Armour is. They have just grown into it. It cannot be removed. Chaos Armour doesn't exist to make the warrior superhuman. It exists to make their commitment to chaos permanent. Once they've donned the armour, there is no going back.
Chaos Armour is just plate. It doesn't make them superhuman soldiers. It just means they can't take the damn shit off.
Fucking hell Anon, do you think if you stuck pens into your fingers so you could never remove them but OOH HEY, I CAN ALWAYS WRITE WITH MY PEN FINGERS, would make that person super human?
Wait, I know. I'll weld some fucking binoculars to my face so I can never remove them. Then I'll have SUPERHUMAN VISION.
You fuckwit.
>>44099901
Ahhh okay. Well, unlike Mordheim and Necromunda where you could only have a select few armies you have more options here. Also I just appreciate the fact that they are in a way trying to bring back what made Warhammer special compared to other non-Warhammer wargames.
But in the end I do ultimately agree with you, and myself wanna wait for enough things to be released for AoS and Corvus Belli's Infinity and switch to them permanently removing 30/40k from my collection/games I play.
>>44099959
>AoS is a clusterfuck of really trite high fantasy WoW-tier bastardizes babby's first Norse mythology garbage.
Is this is fucking bait post? Please tell me this is a bait post. WHICH SETTING HAS A PLACE CALLED FUCKING NORSCA IN IT? WHICH SETTING HAS MORE TOLKIEN TROPES WHICH COME FROM NORSE MYTHOLOGY?
>It's a complete and utter ugly buttfuck of nothing
What does this even mean? Nothing.
>I don't know how many times I've fucking read over summaries and shit of that lore and I'm bored to tears.
>I don't know how many times I go in reading a couple sentences about AoS with my butthurt as fuck perspective ready to hate on it and I do come out hating it
FTFY
>>44099919
>Implying causing fear, being immune to psychology or having frenzy are superhuman feats.
Fucking Flagellants are immune to psychology.
Frenzy and Cause Fear can be gained by common warriors in Mordheim.
I will grant that generating Magic is a superpower - fair point there.
But all the other marks aren't superhuman feats in any sense.
>>44087187
Total Warhammer has been in development since the time of Rome 2, so it's been in development for a good 3 or 4 years now. This is evident by the fact that in one of the early R2 videos we see a bunch of folders on a dev computers named "warhammer". That's when people knew CA was doing a Warhammer game, but no one knew if it was a Vikings/Aliens type CA deal or a Total War one until they announced it.
>>44100025
I'm a little shocked that they basically flushed 30 odd years of development, design and growth to basically start afresh.
Actually, the more I think about it the more this question comes to my mind:
How much of the stagnation of the Warhammer Fantasy and 40k setting was due to GW and how much was due to the fans?
>>44099959
>Why hasn't 35 years of fluff suddenly come into existence in 8 months!!
t. shitposter
