Take out a loan to buy a new Horus Heresy army editon.
HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
HHG RULES - https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
Previous thread >>44034459
Want to try to do close combat in a more interesting way than the World Eaters. Tryna plan an Imperial Militia and Cults army. Makes the Levy and Ogryn squads super badass close combat units due to Cult Horde, Tainted Flesh, and Skarbrand's buff. Thunderbolt Fighters, Stormhammer, and Psykers for back up support.
2500 points
---HQ---
Force Commander - 50 points (Warlord)
-Provenance Of War: Cult Horde
-Provenance Of War: Tainted Flesh
Rogue Psyker - 0 points
Rogue Psyker - 0 points
---Troops---
(50) Inducted Levy Squad - 100 points
-Swap Auxilia rifles for Auxilia pistols
(50) Inducted Levy Squad - 100 points
-Swap Auxilia rifles for Auxilia pistols
(50) Inducted Levy Squad - 100 points
-Swap Auxilia rifles for Auxilia pistols
(50) Inducted Levy Squad - 100 points
-Swap Auxilia rifles for Auxilia pistols
---Elites---
(3) Auxilia Ogryn Brute Squad - 160 points
-3 Heavy Bolters
-Carapace Armor
(3) Auxilia Ogryn Brute Squad - 160 points
-3 Heavy Bolters
-Carapace Armor
(3) Auxilia Ogryn Brute Squad - 160 points
-3 Heavy Bolters
-Carapace Armor
(3) Auxilia Ogryn Brute Squad - 160 points
-3 Heavy Bolters
-Carapace Armor
---Fast Attack---
Auxilia Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter - 230 points
-Ground-Tracking Auguries
-Flare Shield
-Kinetic Piercer Missiles
Auxilia Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter - 230 points
-Ground-Tracking Auguries
-Flare Shield
-Hellstrike Missiles
+++Lords Of War+++
Auxilia Stormhammer Super Heavy Assault Tank - 610 points
-Armored Ceramite
-Pintle Mounted Multilaser
-Targeters
+++Chaos Daemons Allies+++
---HQ---
Skarbrand - 225 points
---Troops---
(10) Bloodletters Of Khorne - 115 points
-Instrument Of Chaos
-Bloodreaper Upgrade
Ordered three graviton rapiers and two legion medusas. Playing Thousand Sons, ain't no one touching my delicate, pristine power armour.
>>44086465
>take out a loan edition
Sooo ... @230 models in 2500pts. I've been out of the game for a bit. How many ducats would something like this even cost today?
>>44085919
so 2k alpha legion
10 sniper vets,2 HB 260
10 sniper vets,2 HB 260
10 tank hunter vets,melta bombs, power sword, AA 265
5 Lernaean Terminators,4 power fists, sergent: chain fist, power dagger, armoured ceramite [prator goes here] 260
Dynat, power dagger 205
Primus medicae, cataphrcii, 120
Mortis patten contemptor, ass cannons 180
3 las Rapier 165
Sicarian, 135
3 apothcaries,1 w/ AA, 1 w/ scanner 150
so the big D goes with the tank hunters, and the terminators deep stike.
apothecary's go with vets, primus goes with terminator
Does anybody have any advice for converting World Eaters Red Butchers for regular Catphractii Termies? With BaC offering them in plastic I think it'd be so much cheaper.
>>44087996
Depends what you use for your Inducted Levies. Since you're going tainted flesh/cult horde you can easily use Zombie models. You can get the pictured models for $10 for 10 on ebay sometimes. So you're looking at $200 right there.
What's the fluffiest Mechanicum faction for a close-combat Taghmata army?
What should I take?
>>44088127
Lots of plasticard? Maybe kitbashing the BaC models with the plastic Chaos Termies or KBs?
What do you start with when building a legion army list?
Whenever I try to make one, I quickly get overwhelmed with all the choices between various loadouts, rites of war etc. so the classic one HQ+ two troops isn't working for me.
>>44088719
Rule of Cool
also if I like it: take two.
See what sort of gaps that leaves you with strategically/tactically and go from there.
>>44088719
4 word: Boots. On. The. Ground. AKA boys before toys
i see so many 3k+ list with 30 or less models, and that shit is never going to get you anywhere: either you cant capture objectives, or you will just be tabled too quickly.
it also helps to have an idea of what you want to play before hand. RoW can drastically change your choices available. my advise, start with a preator, and then go look at your troops. after you have a model count of 20/1k points (roughly speaking), you can then look at your sicarians, rapiers and contemptors.
the fact that you have spent the bulk of your points on troops, also helps focus your priorities with that you want next. Always go down a check list of qualities:
Do you have decent anti-armour?
Can you deal with hoards?
Can you take air units down
What will you do when your opponent plops down a knight or two?
If playing maelstom games against 40k, do you have enough obsec?
I heard its possible to play Death Guard without transports, but im not sure if thats true or how that would work. How would the deathshroud termies get anywhere?
>>44089153
Doesn't Mortarion have some sort of teleport ability? I could be mistaken.
>>44089177
i havent really looked into his special rules because I didnt plan to take him in my 2k list. But if thats what makes footslogging death guard good i might aswell take him instead of 2 landraiders
>>44088832
I like this line of thought.
>>44088842
Thanks, I'll look to apply these points.
I actually prefer massed squads as opposed to a few models here and there, bud aren't they hindered by terrain when there's a reasonable amount of it. I have to play a game yet, you see.
>>44089177
Yeah, he teleports up to 10" on a successful Ld test and may assault on the same turn.
>>44086465
FW has said they made a typo, rogue psykers cost 35 points.
Then, are you even allowed to use daemon allies? I thought that was WB only. Then, your allies need a troop choice.
>>44089310
If you prefer big squads then this is your game!
Large squads arent hinder much more by terrain than small squads. in 30k, where 1 20 man squad is cheaper than 2 ten man squads, this difference becomes irrelevant . Larger squds also help if you are assaulted.
>>44086465
Enjoy moving those two hundred mooks around the table. I really don't understand horde armies.
>>44088719
Whatever looks cool. My AL are pretty fucking trash on the table but I love all of these recon squads and sniper vets with Exodus.
You do play for fun, don't you anon?
>>44089360
>Then, are you even allowed to use daemon allies? Cults are Fellow Warriors with Chaos Daemons if they've got the Tainted Flesh or Cult Horde provenances.
>>44089360
m8 bloodletters are troops
>>44089153
You don't need transports when you can take 7 (iswydt Forge World) Heavy support squads in a battle forged army, while still being able to take graviton rapiers, dread squads, Castellax with shredding flamers/outflanking tank hunter Vorax (praevien with rad grenades), and any allies you want, like Reductor, whose thallax ignore your movement penalties, and who can take cheaper and better artillery then you,
>>44090034
>>44089153
And this is all while having a character that incentivizes stocking up on heavy squads that counts as a master of the legion, and despite them being generic having arguably the best breacher squads outside of the iron hands (ow, you want to charge me? enjoy no charge bonuses and taking overwatch fine, that can include up to 15 automatic hits from shedding flamers, while at -1 toughness)
>>44088161
They are also made to be kitbashed with the regular plastic zombies they produce.
I have 65 mark IV marines for my iron warriors (goddammit BaC)
which would be the best loadout?
1
>5 iron havocs
>20 tacs
>20 tacs
>20 tacs
>hammer of olympia
2
>10 iron havocs
>5 iron havocs
>10 tank hunter veterans on land raider
>10 sniper veterans on rhino
>10 sniper veterans on rhino
>20 tacs
>pride of the legion
3
>5 iron havocs
>10 tacs on rhino
>10 tacs on rhino
>20 tacs
>10 tank hunter veterans on land raider
>10 sniper veterans
>hammer of olympia
>>44089507
That's your problem.
>>44089412
It definitely is, for the reason you mentioned, but also because I can field flavourful traitor legions, which I've been a fan of since I got into 40k.
>>44089540
I'd like to, mathhammer sometimes gets in the way, but I have fun even when losing.
Since you play AL, how do your opponents react if you fuck with the reserves?
>>44090091
With all the AP3 or better, and given that the DG are already slow, are breachers worth their expensive cost?
Reductor for allies sounds interesting, though things like the Praevien and Forge Lord mean you can field them from the legion, if you want other allies
Siege Breaker (or possibly the DG Character version) can also do their artillery thing, albeit not quite as well.
Definitely my favourite Legion from what I can see, but the options are a bit overwhelming
![EAH-for-Verve-Girls[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Q37FdLI.jpg "EAH-for-Verve-Girls[1].jpg")
So which do you play, Loyalists or Renegades ?
>>44091110
Loyalist.
what do ultramarines typically do list wise?
>>44091110
Great Crusade means I don't have to choose, baby. Some of my units'll declare for Horus, some for the Emperor, when the time comes. I play as loyalist in tournaments and such, because how often do you see a Loyalist Iron Warrior?
>>44091110
Can you ever be sure with Alpha Legion?
I might not even know myself...
>>44091161
Dark Angels also swings that way.
>>44091065
>>44090091
Im also really overwhelmed by all the options.
I want to make a 2000 points list so I can still play normally vs 40k armies since I know no one who has a HH army. But its just really tough to take all the models I like and still make an army that is not going to play like shit. What I really want in the army are a small mechanicum ally detachment, Breachers, heavy support squads with autocannons, deathshroud terminators, which I guess is doable but I also think Grave warden terminators, 3 basiliks and a Leviathan dreadnaught would be really cool to have in my army. I made 2 different lists, one with mechanicum allies and one without so i could just play both from time to time but I dont kow if either one makes sense.
>>44091110
Loyalist remnants of renegade legions, so they'll fit in to any campaign narrative.
2000 points of Iron hands outflanking vindicators
Head Of The Gorgon
HQ
Damocles Command Rhino
Praetor (Cataphractii, Digital Lasers, Paragon Blade)
Troops
9x Tactical Squad (Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Rhino w/ Havoc Launcher)
1x Tactical Sargent (Meltabombs, Artificer Armour, Power Weapon)
9x Tactical Squad (Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Rhino w/ Havoc Launcher)
1x Tactical Sargent (Meltabombs, Artificer Armour, Power Weapon)
Elite
Contemptor Dreadnought (Kheres Assault Cannon, Graviton Gun)
4x Gorgon Terminators (Spartan w/ Armoured Ceramite)
1x Gorgon Hammerbearer
Heavy Support
Sicarian (Lascannons, Armoured Ceramite)
Vindicator (Armoured Ceramite)
Vindicator (Armoured Ceramite)
The Command Rhino helps outflanking and the Praetor rides with the Gorgons
the Spartan and 2 Vindicators are outflanking, I could always replace one of them with more bodies if the model count is too low.
>>44091451
>with autocannon
Why autocannons?
As far as I can tell, missile lawnchairs are better generalist choices - S8 and the ever-so-useful-in-HH AP3 seem better, even at the cost of rate of fire - you've got entire squads, so that hardly matters. Also you can upgrade to flakk, and if you're in a big game with Morty your frag missiles are poionous
>>44091595
I think they look a lot better and since im going to play mostly against 40k armies i guess the ap wont be quite as big of a problem. But if im going to use multiple squads I could also take some rocket launchers.
>>44091510
Why does no one ever pick renegade elements of a loyalist legion?
>>44087996
Not too expensive except the Fighters and the Stormhammer. Militia and Cults is a cool army cuz you can use any minis you feel like using for the actual army.
>>44089360
They confirm the 35 point thing? If so I'll just take Nurglings as my troop choice instead of Bloodletters for Daemons. Also Cult Horde/Tainted Flesh armies can take Daemons as allies.
>>44089507
Worth it to fuck with as much of the enemy's tactics as possible. No matter how many my enemy kills there'll always be more, and the Levy Squads are worthless as far as scoring goes.
>>44089540
>>44090869
AL from what I have played against is an army that actually requires a lot of skill to play and feels like Raven Guard on hard mode. Like Raven Guard if you don't cripple the enemy hard enough using everything then when the enemy can actually see your army they'll fuck it up.
>>44092182
People like the good guys?
>>44092182
Because they know loyalist legions suck and traitor legions are the best.
>>44092182
I'd guess it's that Scars and Dangles were the only ones with substantial traitor demographics, and they don't have rules yet.
And only the Curze/Angron/Magnus/Lorgar dindu nuffin crowd treat going traitor as defensible, so I'd expect a lot of the rest are picking with their favorite legion, rather than picking the renegades.
>>44092182
Because they could just play Dark Angels.
>>44092182
renegades are almost universally shitheads, while the loyal elements of the traitor legions are usually portrayed as complete badasses
I've not followed Warhammer 40k since forever.
What is 30k? Is it like 40k Lite?
>>44093114
contemporary 40k takes place in the 41st millennium
the horus heresy happens in the 31st millennium
>>44093114
30k is WW1 unit deployment with amazing technology and 40k is WW2 unit deployment with less amazing technology presumingly powered by skulls for batteries.
>>44093091
Nah really. Renegades can be also guise like "Minotaurs space marine, very loyal to empire but just cant stand those purges and that they are Lords of Terra lapdogs, instead of serving true purpose the Emperor made them to." So, every renegade is shithead, or no?
>>44093205
I'm sorry but you'll need to translate that into english for me.
>>44093205
Badab renegades =/= loyalist legionnaires who sided with Horus.
>>44093043
Substantial is meaningless. Every legion had loose elements to it and we have examples from the Space Wolves, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, and Blood Angels, in addition to White Scars and Dark Angels, who turned on their legion. I have no doubt that the others had some as well. Even if only 200 marines out of 100,000 turned, that's still more than enough for a TT army.
>>44093435
Sure, there were traitors in every loyalist legion, just like the converse. We just never hear about them, or, when you do, they never come off as very likable. Meanwhile, you get cool guys like Dantioch and Garro, and the general theme of standing for your beliefs when everyone around you sells out, which I expect has some appeal to it. So it's less "they didn't exist" and more "why would you want an army of them?"
![Kyr_Vhalen[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/anSpN3l.jpg "Kyr_Vhalen[1].jpg")
>>44093091
did they ever shed light on what happened to Kyr Vhalen after paramar
>>44092182
Because Fallen Angels aren't a thing yet.
But once they are I'll be showing you all how the First really does things. Terran pride. Not some lion-man got dragged out of the woods and his redneck mudblood Calibanite friends. I'm the real deal Terran born Astartes since before Legiones was a thing. You can't dump me on a fucking rock and hide my glory. First legion pride! I conquered Terra!
>>44093642
I don't think so, but anyone got a good conversion of him that captures all dat armor detail? I've been struggling to come up with something that'd look good.
>>44093677
Did FW ever say if they were going to do a model of him? Because that would be one I'd like to see before committing to a conversion.
>>44093675
You know, I've heard the Fallen were both entirely Terran and entirely Calibanian. Does anyone have a source on which it was?
>>44093043
>Angron dindu nuffin crowd
The only argument you can possibly make for that is that Angron was never loyal to the Big E to begin with.
>Lorgar dindu nuffin crowd
Erebus and Kor Phaeron do not a crowd make.
Wait, are there actually people who say Lorgar didn't do anything wrong?
Lorgar's one of my favorite Primarchs, and hell I'll admit that in the end he's easily the evilest Primarch of them all, with his underling Erebus being quite possibly the evilest character in 40k period. Like shit even when Lorgar stopped holding back and became stupid levels of powerful, he STILL resorted to coward asshole tactics just because he's that much of a dick (and that's why I love him so much he's sorta like Chaos' Eldrad being an insanely powerful Psyker who would rather troll/be an utter douchebag.)
>>44093797
Most people argue for Magnus than for Angron and Lorgar
>>44093721
It was mix. Even if all the marines on Caliban had been Terran, they'd still have been recruiting Calibanites.
Astelan claims he was essential to turning the Terran legionaries, but Astelan also tends to be portrayed with an inflated sense of his own self worth.
>>44093938
it didn't start happening until the First Heretic book, where the emperor had the smurfs literally gun down an entire word bearer city, and then forced the word bearers to bow to their spiritual liege. Instead of, you know, a normal censure.
So you get the smurf haters and the ADB fanboys going on about how it wasn't lorgar's fault.
>>44094004
Even Guilliman thought that shit was excessive.
Lorgar did plenty of shit wrong, but Monarchia was (mostly) not one of them.
>>44093938
It's all people who buy into Black Crusade's "Chaos is the only hope for the future line." If you argue that point, then the guy(s) who first proposed the idea must, by definition, be right about that. And in a fandom argument, your side being right about any one thing proves that they are right about everything ever. It's not usually that they like him, it's that they like what he stood for, and he comes with the package.
Quick question guys, if we take a Primarch and make him a Warlord can we have him take up an HQ space?
>>44094004
Yeah what they did to Lorgar was dickish. But what Lorgar did afterward was 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x more dickish.
>>44092294
Would you mind elaborating on the Alpha Legion part?
I'm quite interested in colecting and even more painting them.
>>44093941
Well, Magnus was screwed over by both sides, treated like a pawn and then his legion turns into dustbins.
>>44093114
>Is it like 40k Lite?
It's 40k heavy
>>44094057
It was definitely excessive, but my point is until that novel came out, no one defended lorgar's actions. Because the Emperor didn't go full fucking retard on his ass when telling him to cut the worshipping shit out.
It's getting seriously difficult to pick which of the retarded new plotlines/retcons are the worst in the novel series at this point.
>>44093642
He didn't give a damn about the Heresy and remained loyal to the Crusade with his Marines who are now known as the PARTINAX ASTARTES
Forgive my new but, what was the purpose behind the rivets on some suits of power armour?
>>44094149
Cheap repairs to make up for a lack of proper supplies. They layer thinner than acceptable materials on top of one another, then slam those big bolts in to keep things together.
The studded shoulder plate on the beakie armor is more ceremonial, as a way of remembering the heresy.
>>44094103
Like the Raven Guard, they specialize in causing lots of damage at once with having almost everything Infiltrated. The goal of such armies is to do as much damage at once as possible. If you crippled the enemy enough using everything at your disposal the rest of their army should be easy to deal with, but if not enemy armies WILL wreck you in a head on fight. Alpha Legion have it a bit tougher, too because they NEED their Primarch to kick ass as his special rules are very helpful in terms of synergizing with the Legion's own special rules and Rite Of War. Must also take either a Land Raider Proteus or a Damocles Command Rhino to further take advantage of their reserves/deep strike dominance rules.
Raven Guard comparatively works in a more straightfoward fashion. Alpha Legion has a large variety of different options and they are all to be used if you want to win.
>>44094281
Well, the Infiltrate special rule is not mandatory, although I see its merit in an alpha strike.
However, I wouldn't say both RG and AL are dependent on a successful alpha strike as they have the same durability that most legions possess.
I can see LR Proteus combined with the Coils RoW and the "-1 to enemy reserve rolls" warlord trait being a bitch to deal with, but that depends on the enemy the AL player is facing and will be useless most if the time, unless AL is packing a lot of flyers.
I thought the AL is more limited compared to the RG since they only get 'half' of the benefits the RG get, the Rewards of Treason notwithstanding.
>>44086465
Actually nvm ignore this post I wanna use Skarbrand in my main army instead of making a new one. Sorry I am shitting up the thread with lists, but I am excited that my Skarbrand finally arrived! The buffs that Lorgar and Skarbrand will give to everyone in this army will make it even better at melee than World Eaters. Not to mention that Zardu Layak and Lorgar have crazy Psyker shenanigans, too making it the most powerful psyker 30k army as well. The Damocles Rhino I feel is essential since so many things deep strike in the army. Centurion that I am forced to take goes in the Rhino which also provides cover for when there aren't many things on the field. Layak, his Blade Slaves, and Lorgar arrive in the Dreadclaw Drop Pod. Heavy Support Squad for annoying things like flyers and outflank vehicles. Am I missing anything?
3000 points
+++Word Bearers CAD+++
---HQ---
Zardu Layak - 175 points
(2) Anakatis Kul Blade Slaves - 100 points
Legion Centurion - 50 points
Damocles Command Rhino - 100 points
---Troops---
(10) The Ashen Circle - 375 points
-7 Power Axes
-Artificer Armor for Iconoclast
-1 Phosphex Bombs for Iconoclast
-Dark Channelling
(10) The Ashen Circle - 375 points
-7 Power Axes
-Artificer Armor for Iconoclast
-1 Phosphex Bombs for Iconoclast
-Dark Channelling
---Elites---
(10) Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren - 485 points
-2 Power Weapons (Mauls)
-Tainted Weapon for Dark Martyr
-Artificer Armor for Dark Martyr
Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought - 305 points
---Fast Attack---
Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod - 100 points
---Heavy Support---
(5) Legion Heavy Support Squad - 215 points
-5 Missile Launchers with Frag, Krak, and Flakk Missiles
-Augury Scanner
---Lords Of War
Lorgar - 450 points (Warlord; Rite Of War: The Dark Brethren)
+++Chaos Daemons Allies+++
---HQ---
Skarbrand - 225 points
---Troops---
(3) Nurglings - 45 points
>>44088556
Myrmidax/doms. Ursarax, Destructors, Secutors
>>44088832
Troops/HQ, then cool legion stuff, then gap filling
>>44090550
#1 Feed the meat grinder, IW style
>>44093435
I know of exactly 1 traitor RG and he didn't end up in one piece.
>>44094350
>I thought the AL is more limited compared to the RG since they only get 'half' of the benefits the RG get, the Rewards of Treason notwithstanding.
That's why I said that they aren't as straightforward as RG. They have more options, but they are very...different kind of options. Flyers are practically almost essential, too.
Also it's not that they possess the same durability, it's the fact that on top of that durability they don't have anything that makes them strong in a head-on fight. All other Legions get more straightup buffs that would kill both of these Legions.
>>44094377
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!
Is it worth having a Rhino Dedicated transport in a Raven Guard army even though every you have that can take it will be Infiltrated? Maybe not have your troops in it, but maybe have one of those or a Drop Pod anyway for cover and whatnot?
>>44094379
So flyers and a reliable way to eliminate and/or distrupt enemy flyers and skyfire units before they can be brought to bear is a good way to go?
Are flyers in HH lists as scorned as in 40k? I understand this varies from meta to meta, just asking in general.
>>44094076
No, Lord of War all day every day.
>>44094076
There is an old Colchin proverb which tells that revenge is a dish that is best served at many temperatures and as broadly and destructively as possible.
>>44094365
Not a legal list, I'm afraid. Zardu only makes the Ashen circle troops via his Warlord trait, and including Lorgar prevents him from using it.
I looked around on Forgeworld and noticed that the autocannons for marines are gone. When did that happen?
>>44092182
Because while Traitors have expanded campaign fluff involving their internal purges and loyalist special characters, they haven't done the same for the Loyalists.
![$_1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6txQiri.jpg "$_1[1].jpg")
Has anyone done any IW conversions for the BaC marines? I don't care much if my marines have mk4 bodies/backpacks, but I'm looking for a relatively cost-effective method of replacing the mk4 helmets with something more siege-y. So far I've narrowed it down to FW's Iron Hands heads, those corinthian-esque helmets that come with khorne berzerkers (minus the bunny ears), or filling in the grills on the mk4 helmets and adding additional armor studs along the brow. I'm specifically trying to make a horde of breacher marines on a budget and up-armouring the plastic mk4's to get plausible-looking IW/void-hardened armor.
>>44088106
no love for the sons of alphie?
>using converted Kastelans as Castellax
How hard would this trigger you guys?
Assuming they are converted fairly well.
>>44095486
Wouldn't bother me at all. Anyone who has a problem with well-done conversions has no place in this hobby.
>>44094741
True shit.
>>44094765
I KNEW there was something wrong. Oh well, no Lorgar then. I only need Psyker support, so a Librarian with Layak is good stuff. Plus I get to put in more Khorne daemons and he may be least favorite god but he has among the coolest looking daemons imo.
3000 points
+++Word Bearers CAD+++
---HQ---
Zardu Layak - 175 points (Warlord; Rite Of War: The Dark Brethren)
(2) Anakatis Kul Blade Slaves - 100 points
Legion Centurion - 115 points
-Librarian
-Psyker Mastery Level 2
Damocles Command Rhino - 105 points
-Dozer Blade
---Troops---
(10) The Ashen Circle - 390 points
-7 Power Axes
-Artificer Armor for Iconoclast
-2 Phosphex Bombs for Iconoclast
-Dark Channelling
-Melta Bombs for Iconoclast
(10) The Ashen Circle - 390 points
-7 Power Axes
-Artificer Armor for Iconoclast
-1 Phosphex Bombs for Iconoclast
-Dark Channelling
-Melta Bombs for Iconoclast
---Elites---
(10) Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren - 490 points
-2 Power Weapons (Mauls)
-Tainted Weapon for Dark Martyr
-Artificer Armor for Dark Martyr
-Melta Bombs for Dark Martyr
Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought - 305 points
---Fast Attack---
Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod - 100 points
---Heavy Support---
(5) Legion Heavy Support Squad - 215 points
-5 Missile Launchers with Frag, Krak, and Flakk Missiles
-Augury Scanner
+++Chaos Daemons Allies+++
---HQ---
Skarbrand - 225 points
---Troops---
(10) Bloodletters Of Khorne - 110 points
-Instrument Of Chaos
---Elites---
(3) Bloodcrushers Of Khorne - 155 points
-Instrument Of Chaos
-Icon Of Chaos
---Heavy Support---
Skull Cannon Of Khorne - 125 points
>>44094699
>>44094699
Flyers are great. Get yourself any of these: Primaris, Xiphon, Fire Raptor, etc. Maintain air superiority. Combine those with your ability to fuck with reserves and you have practically full control of the air. Taking Alpharius is practically mandatory if you wanna do well, and if you want to take advantage of the reserves shit take either a Damocles Command Rhino in your HQ or a Land Raider Proteus with an Explorator Augury Web. Shit I had an anon the other day pastebin his Alpha Legion army but I forgot to bookmark it. Was gonna tell you to run his type flyers and Alpharius, but use a Damocles Rhino instead of a Land Raider Proteus and then run ground forces whichever way you personally prefer.
>>44095265
What I'm doing is using Iron Hands heads plus Death Guard Bodies.
I'll probably use some of the Iron Warriors heads too, as they look much, much better in person than they do online. The Iron Warriors torsos still look shit though.
>>44095774
You do realise that your two troop choices have a 1 in 3 chance of not being scoring, right? It's not unlikely your only scoring unit is a unit of Bloodletters... and they're not paticularly suited for that task.
I think I'd throw the list around the other way, instead of scrapping Lorgar, scrap Zardu Layak. (Use the Blade Slaves as Gal Vorbak champions, or something) You'd need to use the Word Bearers Rite of War to still get Daemon allies but I don't think that'd be a major problem for you. Personally I'm cool with simple tactical squads, squads of 20 do have some things going for them.
Also, as far as I can tell, the Mhara Gal can take a regular Drednought Pod, saving you 35 pts. Overall you can shave some points all through you list and up your model count, you really need more models.
>>44093642
We know he survived and somehow got to Terra with what remained of his company, presumably he kept fucking traitor shits up
>>44096274
Where is it mentioned he makes it to Terra?
>>44088106
Shieeeet son no transport?
and armored ceramite with termies, misspelling or forgot to add a land raider?
I would drop the las rapier and get some grav cannons instead for tank killing and knock away some veterans. Tank hunters are kinda useless for a vet squad since they they'll be able to kill whatever the fuck they charge that turn with 10 meltas.
Infiltrate is much better for footsloggers, go with autilon skorr as a HQ instead of dynat. Cheaper and choose your strategic warlord trait and vets as troops with the ROW, so some of your units get free infiltrate and still choose their mutable tactic before the game begins.
Sicaran needs lascannons.
Augury scanners on ALL of your apothecaries! nothing better than fucking with your opponent than when you take over his deployment zone with 18" anti infiltrate bubble and free shooting against deep strikers.
>>44096224
>>44096224
Well I already do the 20 man blobs thing in the Word Bearers army I run at the moment http://pastebin.com/XBNqq4DW
I wanted to try something new. I haven't bought Zardu Layak and his Blade Slaves yet that's also entirely new.
If I run Tac Squads I get something like this. Are they even gonna be that useful?
+++Word Bearers CAD+++
---HQ---
Erebus - 195 points
Legion Centurion - 115 points
-Librarian
-Psyker Mastery Level 2
Damocles Command Rhino - 115 points
-Dozer Blade
-Extra Armor
---Troops---
(10) Legion Tactical Squad - 160 points
-Legion Vexilla
(10) Legion Tactical Squad - 160 points
-Legion Vexilla
---Dedicated Transports---
Rhino - 40 points
-Dozer Blade
Rhino - 40 points
-Dozer Blade
---Elites---
(10) Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren - 490 points
-2 Power Weapons (Mauls)
-Tainted Weapon for Dark Martyr
-Artificer Armor for Dark Martyr
-Melta Bombs for Dark Martyr
Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought - 305 points
---Fast Attack---
(10) The Ashen Circle - 365 points
-7 Power Axes
-Artificer Armor for Iconoclast
-2 Phosphex Bombs for Iconoclast
-Melta-bombs for Iconoclast
---Heavy Support---
(5) Legion Heavy Support Squad - 215 points
-5 Missile Launchers with Frag, Krak, and Flakk Missiles
-Augury Scanner
---Lords Of War---
Lorgar - 450 points
-Transfigured (Warlord; Rite Of War: The Dark Brethren)
+++Chaos Daemons Allies+++
---HQ---
Skarbrand - 225 points
---Troops---
(10) Bloodletters Of Khorne - 125 points
-Instrument Of Chaos
-Icon Of Chaos
-1 Bloodhunter
>>44091531
Reporting you to the mods for that sexy ass bitch of a list.
>>44091139
Well Ultramarines are somewhat flexible. Take whatever you want, though generally for close combat they take their amazing Invictarus Suzerain Squads. Some people say Breacher Squads work well with them though I personally think they are a waste of points since Invictarus Suzerain do the same thing but better.
Which Legion plays the most Legion? And by that I mean, which Legion operates the least like a Codex Astartes army?
>>44094127
In the older fluff, it said the emperor tried to talk to him repeatedly about his worship. In spite of repeated warnings, Lorgar spent lots of time converting and subjugating the people he conquered, forcing them to accept the emperor as a god. If he deemed them not pious enough, Lorgar would cleanse entire cities of life.
Finally tired of his shit, The Emperor himself left his crusade to personally slap the shit out of Lorgar for going against orders.
>>44095849
Oh, I like flyers, the only thing putting me off is that there's no effective way to counter them unless the opponent tailors his list. It would be too easy and you know that we can't have that.
>>44097884
I'm pretty sure the codex astartes is not used in 30k and it was more an afterthought by Robot Gorillaman.
In 40k Space Wolves kinda did their own thing instead, because Russ thought the codex astartes was faggot shit.
Quick question. Are there any short stories or audiodramas I should read before reading the actual novels? I'm starting with Horus Rising.
Looking at picking up some Land Speeders for my Iron Warriors as a fast attack support to my gunline. Thinking lascannon javelins are the best option? All my antitank is either a flavour of strength 8 (iron havocs, deredeo, thudds) or a flavour of fist (powerfists and contemptors).
Also I know people tend to look over Destroyers, but how are they as an option to take against regular 40k armies? My 30k bros are all out going away for a few months
>>44098197
You're right on both.
>>44098337
No, not really. As everyone here tends to recommend, read the opening trilogy, the Flight of the Eisenstein and Fulgrim and you're good to go. I started in that order as well and I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I did.
>>44098194
Most lists can have a few sources of anti-air without trying.
Deredeos, Sicarans, Contemptor-Mortis, Missile Launchers, other flyers all crop up regularly enough without going out of the way for fighting flyers.
>>44098688
Thanks, Anon. Plan on reading everything the archive has to offer me. From some of the things I've heard, tidbits I've seen, and my opinion on BL seeing this for myself is probably going to be a rather monotonous ride.
Was there even a point to the primarchs?
The legions were doing fine without them, some even worse after their introduction. Most Marine and Imperial army commanders were highly competent.
>>44099024
You wouldn't have Legions Astartes without Primarchs. Their genetic material was used to create the Space Marines.
>>44098194
What the other guy said. Flyers in general are a lot more common in 30k so people always have at least something in their army to counter it.
My strongest army which is my Imperial Fists have 2 Heavy Support Squads with Missile Launchers with Flakk missiles just for that (though Missile Launchers otherwise are versatile for troops and vehicles the Flakk are specially built for anti air.) http://pastebin.com/KJBfeCFE
>>44099024
Space Marines were made through their Primarch's genetic material.
A lot of them improved a fuck ton with their Primarch like Imperial Fists and Ultramarines whose recruitment went through the roof.
Then you have a legion like the Thousand Sons who would've doomed themselves to their weird happenings if they didn't find Magnus.
Then you've a legion like the Space Wolves who got better in some ways worse in others.
Even the legions that literally went to hell cuz of their Primarchs did some kind of improvement (Lorgar essentially introducing the Chaplain system and idk about you but I fucking love Chaplains of all the units that are based off fantasy Paladin tropes I like Chaplains the most.)
>>44094059
Ingethal really does try to convince Lorgar that Chaos is humanity's only hope in Aurelian.
>Without belief in the true gods humanity will fall to its own faithlessness. Alien kingdoms will break the Imperium apart, for humanity lacks the strength to survive in a galaxy that loathes your species. Your expansion will fade and diminish, and the gods will smite all who turned from the offer of true faith. Your kind can embrace the Chaos you speak of, or it can taste the same fate as the eldar.
>Chaos seeks symbiosis with life: the Ensouled and the Neverborn in natural harmony. Union. Faith. Power, Lorgar. Immortality and endless possibility. Sensations beyond mortal comprehension. The ability to feel maddening delight at any agony. The gift of ecstasy even when you are destroyed, making even death a great joke, knowing you will incarnate in another form over and over until the suns themselves go black.
>And when the stars die, Chaos still lives on in the cold - still perfect, still exultant, still pure. This is everything humanity has ever dreamed of - to be unchallenged in the galaxy, to be omnipotent above all other life, and to be eternal.
>>44099230
Werent the Thunderwarriors outright better than Marines? Couldnt they just refine them and not bother with the rest?
>>44099337
>mfw
>>44099394
No, they were prone to mental instability and weren't virtually immortal like Space Marines. Sure, maybe some were physically stronger than Astartes but they were definitely more of a liability.
>>44093043
>Curze/Angron/Magnus/Lorgar dindu nuffin crowd
Oh, you!
Would I be cheesy for bringing three quad-mortars in my list?
I keep getting raped by grav-kataphrons and this seems like a good way to deal with them.
I was also considering converting up two predators with heavy conversion beamers
>>44094583
Yes, especially with untis inside. Like Mor Deythan who can infiltrate+scout move 12"+normal move 6"+disembark 6"+Fatal Strike
>>44095486
USe the offbrand drone heads for them
http://wargameexclusive.com/shop/imperial-mechanics/adeptus-mechanicus-kastelan-robots-heads/
>>44099435
>>44099394
Weren't they also like extremely physically unstable after a certain point and prone to just having genetic meltdowns or something?
>>44100206
3 as in 180 points of them (1 unit of 3)? no
3 units of 3? maybe.
But you need to kill that Grav shit.
>>44100488
Would it not be better to have Mor Deythans not in a Rhino so they can't be easily targeted? Unless 30k has some rule where the vehicle gets Infiltrated, too.
>>44100206
Nah not at all. Depending on what I am running for example, me deep striking Terminators or Gal Vorbak would mean the end of those guys. In fact, if anything make sure you have things other than them that the enemy can hit or else you'll have a verrrrryyyy bad time.
>>44100663
Dedicated transports get things like infiltrate and scout if the unit its purchased for has it, its been like that in the BRB forever. Rhino Deythan pain train is one of the deadliest things there is.
>>44101162
>knock knock
>who's there?
>Mor Deythan
>Mor Deythan who?
>10 twinlinked rending flamers on the first turn
>>44101162
Seriously? Holy. Shit.
>>44101162
I use Rhinos on two infiltrated Terror Squads.
First attempt at a SoH 2500 point list
HQ
MoS in a damocles
Praetor in artificer armor charnal saber and paragon blade
Legion command squad with charnal sabers
deathclaw pod pod
Troops
19x tactical squad with extra CCW
Sgt has power weapon and plasma pistol
8x support squad with plasma in a rhino
Sgt has bolter/scanner
15x Reavers with jump packs
1 powerfist and melta bombs
15x Reavers with jump packs
all with banestrike bolters
Elites
2 x apothecary both with artificer and one with a power sword
Fast Attack
Storm eagle with armored ceramite, TL las and TL melta
Lightning with ground tracking and rad missles
Lightning with servitor and kraken missles
Just around 2500 points. Tactical squad rides in the Stormeagle. One apoth with the support squad in the rhino and the one with the power sword in the droppod with the command squad.
C&C please very welcome thank you
What are everyone's guesses for the new release tomorrow? I'm guessing decals.
>>44103615
I'm hoping for surprise models. Some upgrade kits or special characters, maybe. But decals seems the most likely.
>>44085919
Any tips for a total newb to 30k, and not someone with much space marine playing knowledge, on how to do an Emperor's Children army - at least the basics? The sheer choice and options are a little overwhelming.
>>44103689
When? ;_;
>>44103812
I was hoping either for him, Tyrants, or those Thousand Son bits previewed earlier. But I'm expecting to be let down.
>>44103812
I uaually shy away from using named characters. Id use him in a heartbeat if he got a model
>>44103859
Too early for the TS bits I think, but I would love to be proven wrong.
>>44103615
Something weird I noticed is that despite being advertised in a WD from weeks ago, the Solar Auxilla Medicae still aren't up.
>>44104338
TS and SW stuff shouldn't be out until shortly before Prospero.
Atia also recently doubled down on Corax being the next Primarch with Alpharius or Dorn to follow.
>>44104868
New Releases are out, and they're all bundles.
>>44104868
What? No. Prospero is slated earliest for next winter, meanwhile the forgeworld artists have been clear the the TS upgrades were for this year. Hell, they were supposed to be out in summer :(
>>44104969
Not all bundles. They've released all the heavy weapons with hands too.
>>44105032
Make that all weapons that would normally use the Bolter arms. Over the shoulder stuff is still the same, sorry
>>44105032
That's actually annoying if you use those Weapons for Imperial Army troops and now have to remove the Marine hands.
>>44105056
I'm with you, I don't like the new hands attached to weapons thing marines have going. I guess though we fall in the minority and this is going to make alot of peoples lives easier.
I just hope they don't do all the shoulder mounted heavy weapons with shoulders attached next though.
>>44104868
>Something weird I noticed is that despite being advertised in a WD from weeks ago, the Solar Auxilla Medicae still aren't up.
IIRC, the Medicae weren't finalized when they showed them in WD and they went back to be tweaked.
>>44105093
My other problem is that they are all Mk IV Hands. What about those with Mk III? Or any other type?
>>44105096
Ah, I had the feeling the need for WD to be done so far in advance may have been the reason. Last week they advertised the Veletaris with power axes despite them being out for some time.
>>44104996
Oh, so that means no SW rules until then either?
>>44105637
TS, SW, Custodes, and Sisters of Silence rules in Prospero.
>>44105643
Okay, so I guess I will just get the Crusade Army List until then.
>>44099024
Primarch genetic material improved and sped up the creation process - it's how the World Eaters post-Angron could keep up with their casualty rates, and it saved the Emperor's Children (and likely the Thousand Sons too) from complete annihilation - they were down to 200 marines before Fulgrim was found
>>44105610
It's a shame rotor cannons are so trash. They look so good.
>>44093166
I'd say 40K is still WW1, only more schizophrenic and magical/inexplicable.
>>44106026
I used mine against both Orks and Tyranids (like they were intended for during the Great Crusade) and they worked great.
>>44106026
If they were price appropriately or got a small buff they would be fine weapons, but right now a tac support legionary with a rotor cannon is the same cost as a volkite charger/caliver tac legionary or a heavy bolter/flamer support legionary despite not being any where near as good.
+1 shots and make them upgrade from flamers for free, and have the option to buy those bio corrosive rounds (maybe make that like a death guard and/or alpha legion thing) would make them a perfectly viable weapon
>>44106026
>>44107028
If there's one weapon option beyond pistols on which I've seen consistent agreement, it's that rotor cannons are too expensive. I just think 5pts/free to replace flamers is good enough, but not this 10pts malarkey.
>>44107250
they are 5pts per model as an upgrade, the problem is that calivers cost the same, fulfill the same role, have effectively the same range, have twice as much strength, better ap, can make targets they kill explode, and can threaten light vehicles.
>>44107250
Rotor Cannons are garbage. The only legitimate reason to ever take them is if you are mentally retarded.
>>44098337
Don't forget to actually read the forge world army books.
What exactly is the point of the etched brass when the transfer sheets give so much more iconography, is it just to add depth to the model and make the icons look like they are modeled into it?
>>44107325
Yeah but to replace 5pt flamers, hence 10pts.
Calivers are also overcosted for that matter. They should be Salvo 1/2 or something.
>>44107389
That's what every other poster was saying, anon.
The fact that 40kids drawn here by BAC whine about MUH SUBPAR CHOICES shows the problem here
Horus Heresy is effectively a historical wargame, for advanced gamers. You don't build a list to roflstomp newbs, you forge a narrative within a rich and well defined setting. Maybe the army you use has a narrative reason to be composed as it does?
>>44107459
Nigger i was in these threads way before BaC came out and people have always bitched about how shitty Rotor cannons are
>>44105032
>>44105056
wait, did they remove all of the old heavy and special weapons? How will i get hand-less grav guns?
How will I outfit mk3 dudes with autocannons?
>>44106356
Nah, 40k has more specialised squadmembers like those used in WW2. They didn't figure out that in WW1 until the end of it.
>>44107459
Or you just latch onto the part of the game and hobby that you enjoy the most.
>>44107459
I bought ten boxes so I can use the dreadnoughts in my White Scars crusade army list.
>>44088127
>Red Butchers for regular Catphractii Termies?
Buy an empire flaggelant kit and use the heads from that. Would actually make them look a lot more batshit crazy that the FW models as only 1 of them has hit face on display.
>>44103807
Best way to do things is look at what unique rules apply to the emperors children and see what units would synergise well with these rules. For example if you get lots of rules that help sweeping and overwatch don't take lots of Slow and purposeful units. I don't know the EC rules by heart so I can't help you with them specifically.
>>44107401
I've read some of those already.
>>44103807
Kakophani are ass, dont take unless you like the models a lot.
Palatine blades do a lot better with phoenix spears.
Put a phoenix spear on all your sergeants (within reason)
Our astartes special rule is pretty ass, but sonic shriekers are god-tier, buy them for everything.
Remember you are a melee-centric army in a shooty edition. So back up your overcosted melee units with quality shooting, like a fire raptor, deredeo, sicaran, and/or quad mortars.
>>44108059
Thanks, this is quite helpful. Thankfully I was thinking about maybe trying a loyalist version force, and the Palatine interested me a lot more than the Kakophani. I'm just a bit overwhelmed with the larger options - should I have my troops all be rhino rushers, or focus on assault troops?
>>44107737
Stop anon.
>>44107459
Um, no, that's completely backwards. The pre-BaCers were drawn to 30K among other things because of the superior balance. That means those people are able to spot well balanced units from poorly balanced ones. 30K inevitably has errors for a game of its scale and those have never slipped the community by.
Newcomers drawn to the game by cheap models by contrast are much more likely to take a naive stance towards rules balance. We've have lengthy arguments over the past months with new players who didn't immediately grasp that Phalanx Warders are poor for their cost for instance, which got tense until clarity kicked in.
Now the BaC newcomers aren't exactly newcomers any more, the box set has been out a good while and the content and tone of 30K threads has stabilised. The new influx did bring some negatives that we all had to iron out, that's true. But blaming everything on new is very foolish. Furthermore, in an anonymous environment one of the cheapest ways for a newcomer to signal membership with the old crowd is to bash on newcomers in general. The trouble with this is that it is usually not based on the actual reasons why newcomers get criticised and is instead just mindless. The same is true of senseless vs. reasoned criticism of 40K general. It usually reveals a mindset more in line with 40Kg's actual weaknesses to engage in it.
tlDr 30k is great because imbalane is so rare and contained, denying that the imbalance doesn't exist at all or giving a "forging a narrative" spiel is sockpuppet-tier.
How much luck have people had using plasma-gun wielding Tactical Support squads? I think they'd be huge fire magnets, but will they even get to deal damage?
>>44109848
I've never used them but I've heard nothing negative and a fair amount of positive. For their cost, slot and mobility they do good damage.
is there any particular reason why some hunter killers are 10pts while others are 5pts?
>>44108706
Actually, as a newbie, this has me wondering too - whats the best way to get troops into melee? Rhinos? Land Raiders? Big footslogging hordes? Just using assault troops?
>>44110031
I suppose it depends on the troops. Basic assault squads are horrible value, legion specific units can make okay to excellent use of jump packs. Rhinos are more about provided a consistent army-wide pace and defensive front in a mechanised list, they're cheap but not so useful for a prime melee unit. Land Raiders will get a unit to the enemy come but thickest enemy fire. Some armies reserve a few Raiders for prime units, other can go all out with every unit (which then generally dominates the army's theme). I can neither knock footslogger hordes nor prop them up. Foot is generally better for Fury of the Legion defensive blockades who will be keeping relatively still and countering enemies, not units invested with melee gear to smash foes.
>>44110176
Not that guy, but this is really useful for my Emperor's Children ideas. Please teach me more. How should I balance ranged with melee?
Okay so how does Alpha Legion play in 30k? I'm just getting started and I know they need a lot of mk4s on the field plus their pre heresy army colors are baller.
>>44109848
I run a 10 man squad in a rhino with my Iron Warriors. When they don't get wiped out they're amazing. It really depends on how badly your opponent wants to kill them.
>>44110656
COILS OF THE HYDRA + MUTABLE TACTICS ALL DAY ERRYDAY
>>44110525
That's a broad question, one which doesn't have a specific answer relative to 30K. In general you'll want to have your prime damage units focussed on either melee or ranged, and use cheaper units of the other type as support. In melee lead armies ranged units are used to pin down or force morale checks on troublesome targets and harass units that the melee units can't catch easily, or else sweep small distraction units that threaten to bog the melee down away. In ranged armies melee units are either a defensive buffer uses to absorb bullets and spring forth in counterattack on advancing foes, or use schemes to insert themselves into the enemy's backlines and tie down rival gunpieces.
Whichever unit type is the support should be more all-round in design than the lead, which should stick to unit-specialities (army wide coverage rather than within unit coverage) and not waste points on abilities outside of its preferred battle context. All armies as a general rule should have at least one utility unit that is either tacky enough to sit on a backfield objective and give challengers a rough time without support (melee armies) or pop out of nowhere and much with the enemy's backfield (ranged armies), and these units should be equal in both sorts of fighting.
>>44111086
Thanks, that sounds quite useful. I suppose I'll have to play around with the concepts
>>44110656
Think if UM/EC and RG had a baby, but it was Liquid Snake instead of Solid. It's about planning, sum of its parts, and being sneaky charlie, sneaky and/or cunning. But misses out on the super effective murdering capabilities and the HUEG planning. Unless you take Alpharius.
>>44111077
Sweet, any particular model choices I should be looking at after getting Betrayal?
>>44111525
Transports for your infantry, otherwise you'll be forced into choosing Infiltrate for your infantry squads (not that it's a bad thing, but as AL player you want to keep the enemy on the back foot), Land Raider Proteus with Explorator Augury Array for additional reserves fuckery, maybe Damocles Command Rhino and flyers. There's quite a bit of talk about the AL in this thread already so read through.
Also, I got Autilon Skorr for smaller battles.
Man I hope the IF get a more offensive RoW, like make heavy support squads troops and get S&P in the enemy deployment zone or something, IW could get a defensive one that turns Rhinos into pillboxes, everyone that can take a rhino must take one and all rhinos add +1AV for every other Rhino thats within 2'' of each other to a max of AV13.
>>44112282
The Iron Warriors RoW in book 6 is about them charging through their own artillery fire, so yeah... not happening any time soon.
>>44112314
Source? Are there any clues on other rites?
>>44111687
Okay sounds good. Sorry I'm still pretty new to 30k, is there a general gist of how AL play? I assume it's not the typical sneaky assaulty style of raven guard and night lords?
How big was the average Horus Heresy era legion fleet? I know that the Imperial Fists had a huge fleet with, probably in the thousands, at the outbreak. But what about the other legions?
>>44112568
Last FW event, the designers there.
Emperor's Children are getting a Kakophoni RoW, with the only benefit revealed being Relentless.
Sons of Horus have something about getting Twin-Linked everything on the first turn? First turn of a unit? Basically representing the fact that Horus is diverting supplies to furnish his army.
Word Berears are getting a Gal Vorbak RoW, making them troops.
And then like I mentioned, Iron Warriors wading through the smoke and dust of their artillery, which is apparently inspired by one of the BL books.
Why are Dark Angels and Salamanders best buddies by FW rules?
>>44112829
Gal Vorbak troops.... I would pour open my wallet if that also meant they could be scoring... :/
Is there any way to make footslogging Terminators work as Death Guard?
Also what do you guys think about using 3 basilis at 2k points?
>>44112668
It actually is, every dirty trick in the book plus some no one has ever heard of.
As I said, read through the thread, or better yet, read the red books (download links should be in the OP) to get the basic idea of army composition in 30k.
I didn't mean to come as condescending if you got the impression, I'm somewhat new as well and got into HH only recently with BaC.
>>44112829
Cool stuff, was hoping for more info.
Yeah, the IW is inspired by the "Ironfire" short story, that's why I asked for the source.
>>44111114
Welcome. Emperor's Children are an assault army so that portion is the most relevant. Stay away from Kakophoni until the rules get updated and till then, have fun.
>>44093435
>I know of exactly 1 traitor RG and he didn't end up in one piece.
>>44094377
And the IF have the great traitor Sigismund. He who didn't do what Dorn asked that one time.
Do we know yet if book 6 will be shown off at the new year event, I want to start building my legion but want to wait till we get a look at the rites of war
Also, if I where to use Volkite Calivers models instead of Volkite Culverins for a heavy support squad do you think anyone would be anal about it?
>>44114601
so long as you dont have a squad that actually uses volkite calivers/chargers either, no.
What does /30k/ think of my AL attempt?
It uses Coils of the Hydra, but no "stolen" unit. 2500 points total.
Quite a bit of reserves shenanigans, as well as flyers.
>HQ
Praetor
- Archaeotech pistol, Power Dagger, Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers and Venom Spheres. Joins the Legion Seekers.
>Elites
Veteran Tactical Squad (10)
- 2 Missile Launchers with Flakk upgrade
Sergeant
- Power Fist
- Artificer Armour
- Rhino
>Troops
Tactical Squad (10)
- Rhino
Tactical Squad (10)
- Rhino
Assault Squad (15)
- 3 Power Weapons
Sergeant
- Thunder Hammer
- Melta Bombs
- Artificer Armour
>Fast Attack
Xiphon Interceptor
- Ground Tracking Augeries
- Chaff Launcher
Head Hunter Kill Team (5)
- Heavy Bolter
Prime
- Power Fist
- Artificer Armour
Seeker Squad (7)
- Nuncio Vox
- Venom Spheres
Sergeant
- Power Fist
- Artificer Armour
Land Raider Proteus
- Armoured Ceramite
- Hull Twin Heavy Bolter
- Explorator Augery Web
>Heavy Support
Fire Raptor Gunship
- Reaper Autocannon Battery
- Armoured Ceramite
>>44114778
Tank Hunters on the Vets I assume?
Drop the ceramite on the Fire Raptor, nothing with melta is ever going to shoot it, to free up 20 points for vexes on the tacs.
Remember the Proteus doesn't have an assault ramp. Not that you could assault after Scouting anyway. But keep that in mind should they survive and you cart them around.
Which brings me to your Praetor, geared up for assault but in a non-assault vehicle. He would be better off with the AMs if you want him in CC. Otherwise you could drop the CC stuff and give him the nanyte blaster to add to the Seekers combi-wait... They don't have any combi plasmas... Ok drop all the gear on the Seekers and load them with combiplasmas instead. BS5 with PE and Combiplasmas is the hotness. And combined with scout+infiltrate to get them in place they will murder things.
Looks like a good starter list. You'll get crap for taking assault marines(they are suuuuper expensive) but if they are something you want go for it.
>>44114778
>praetor
I'm not a big fan of the archaeotech pistol and you've already equipped for cc. Since he's with Seekers, I'd give him a banestrike combi-bolter at most.
>vets
While flakk missiles are a nice way to add versatility, they aren't necessary since you have the Xiphon for AA. Unless taking the Sniper special rule, consider heavy bolters and banestrike ammo.
Assault squads, in my opinion, should be run as jump pack-equipped tacticals, keep them cheap and numerous.
Headhunters are basically elite Seeker with few differences, I'd recommend you drop either in favour of a heavy support squad.
Also the heavy bolter on LR Proteus is unnecessary.
Both flyers look ok to me.
To conclude, it's your list so you're the best judge on what should go in, these are just my thoughts on how to make it closer to optimal.
>>44115261
>he doesn't know about Thallax
>laughingthallax.jpg
but yeah its a pretty low likelihood, and at AV12, not gonna save your ass with its S7-Rending friends coming at ya.
>>44115261
>>44115325
Thank you both, though my list need not be optimal, as I'm mostly in it for fun.
Though sometimes winning would be nice.
Keep in mind that the Seekers need a dedicated transport, as I don't intend to use Mutable Tactics for Infiltrate in 100% of my games. Hence the LR, the Augery is a nice bonus too.
Toned down the Praetor a bit (bolt pistol instead of Archaeotech Pistol), and added him to the Assault Squad.
Vets now Banestriked up and with Heavy Bolters.
Assault Squad stripped of upgrades, so just lots of marines, no upgrades.
Main reason I had for the Assault Squad was having something that's not a basic Tactical Squad for a 3rd compulsory troop choice, and them DSing in feels like it would fit the AL style of fighting too.
Kill Team removed.
Seekers loaded up with Combi-Plasma guns, and 1 more member, as they had space in the Raider without the Praetor.
Added 7 man Heavy Support Squad with missile launchers in a Rhino.
Overall slightly more bodies (68 compared to 64), but perhaps a little more well-rounded.
Thank you for the tips.
>>44115695
Thallax with skyfire? Nobody takes those when you have so many other options. Also not melta ha.
>>44115325
>>44115998
You don't need banestrike if you have the sniper USR.
The Proteus is a good idea. It's quite good.
>mfw Master of Signal+Heavy Support squad in a bunker with Ammo Dump
So tasty yet nowhere near cheese, if I had another Dev squad I'd take two in the same bunker.
>>44116620
Not that anon but look up the Lorica Thallax wargear.
I just bought Betrayal at Calth, and I'm going to make a Iron Warriors army.
I've never played 40k, let alone 30k, so I was wondering what a good starting list would be to aim for.
I've heard good things about the Iron Havocs and Tyrants though, and I've read through the relevant sections of Betrayal and Extermination.
>>44116620
Your options for anti-air include:
Icarian Thallax
Lightning Strike fighters
Missile-Tarantulas.
Really not all that much. I personally opt for the Strike fighter, every damn time though. The Icarian Thallax is actually a pretty good choice considering they reduce cover saves (and thus jink saves) by -2, but most of their weapons are pretty meh range.
>>44117118
Wait, what kind of bunker are you putting the ammo dump on? I've always wanted to try and run a defensive IF list featuring a lot of fortifications.
>>44117428
Havocs, Tyrants, Medusae, Quad Mortars are all dope. I deep strike Pert with Tyrants, then shell the shit out of everything else.
>>44107389
But they look so cool.
>>44117611
Shelling sounds ridiculously fun. I'll probably steal this, thanks.
>>44117556
This one, medium buildings can have two upgrades so you could have an ammo dump+something else like a void shield or escape hatch or whatever, its basically 200 points for 5 twin-linked heavy weapons in an AV14 box.
I'M STILL WAITING FORGE WORLD
>>44117526
Lightnings with the armourbane missiles are pretty scary against a lot of the big fat tanks in HH as well
would two betrayal boxes be over doing it?
Is that even possible compared to FW prices?
>>44117922
idk, how many infantry and dreadnoughts do you need? if the answer is "a lot" then it's always better value in plastic
>>44117428
I don't know what your money situation is like but if your planning on playing 30k you should probably get around 2k points (so another BaC set), unless your just looking to play some friendly games with buddies for a while
as far as list building goes BaC lets you play an ok pride of the legion list, give the vet squads a mix of weapons, buy some rhinos to roll around in, and get some missile launchers to make tyrants and field the contemptor with the assault cannon
if you get another set you can make an iron havoks with all those missile launcher kicking around, make a plasma tactical support squad (who can nope away terminator units and light armour with 12 plasma shots) and field enough bodies to use the Hammer of Olympia. Most Iron Warriors lists that I see posted either follow one of two templates: maximum krak missile spam with Tyrants and Havoks or tons of bodies with artillery support. Most lists won't have any dedicated melee units, but 20 man tac squads rapid firing then charging can get he job done.
From there basically just start putting in shit that you think is cool, not withstanding the obvious examples of destroyers and recon squads the Legion list has pretty good internal balance within FOC slots, so as long as you maintain a decently well rounded offensive capacity.
>>44117943
I'm going to be starting AL so I assumed the answer would be a lot.
Also how anal do people tend to get about using 40k rhinos? I have one old 2nd edition rhino so that'll do fine but two new ones
So Kaedus Nex is a moritat, but he lacks the lone killer rule.
This means you can use prescience on him and if you're Ravenguard RoW he can reroll to hit against any unit with an IC inside.
Won't you literally shoot until whatever your aiming at dies if you can reroll to hit?
Also rending pistols can glance AV13 so you could also take out Vehicles with the volume of fire he puts out.
can I make a decent Knight Errant list with Garro or should I just wait for the official rules?
Grey Knights were my first foray into miniatures a long, long time ago and I feel like it might be appropriate.
>>44117243
>>44117526
I know what they do. Short range AA. Compare to every other flyer, missiles with flakk, deredeos, contemptors, hyperios whirlwind. There sno shortage of AA. Thallax are the bottom of the barrel. Especailly since the upgrade has some drawbacks
>>44118003
Not at all. The 30k rhinos are basically collectors editions
>>44118109
There is no god
>>44112829
SoH get master-crafted on the first turn
>>44118003
I think both the standard Rhino and Landraider is fine for 30k.
>>44118534
Knight Errants are Agents not an army of their own, I have to wonder though if you could use them together with the Shattered Legion list. A bunch of blackshields led by one or two Knight Errants does sound cool.
As for their rules it wouldnt surprise if they were just the special objectives that are on Garro's pdf plus whatever special equipment they have.
>>44118873
Would an Alpha Legion + Knight Errant list be decent? I like the theory that the first Grand Master of the Grey Knights Janus could have been Omegon.
>>44103807
If you're happy to wait until Feb, the next FW book might have some buffs for the EC which could shape how you want a list to look. I'd wait personally as I like Kakophoni models, dislike the rules, but if their new Rite of War makes them useable (I don't mind if they're not OP), I'd consider running an army based around them.
>>44118003
40k Rhinos is totally fine, and if anything I think they'd prefer it if you used regular Land Raiders. I'm pretty sure the FW ones are a bit smaller and let you squeeze them in tight places a bit better. Depends on which ones you're taking of course - LR Proteus should have the FW model since it's supposed to be tiny and doesn't have an assault ramp (but I'm pretty sure it only makes sense to bring those if you're IH and get to take them as dedicated for your entire army).
One advantage of playing Alpha Legion is you can be creative about how you paint and theme your army since it's an army of infiltrators. If any legion was going to show up under a false banner and colors it would be them. It's extra good if you play in a club with lots of other 30k players that wouldn't mind lending you a unit from their army for a game - AL can copy a unique unit from any other legion but you may not want to actually collect them all yourself.
>>44103812
It's not terribly difficult to make him by kitbashing the two praetor models that come in the FW pack together. The remains can be used to make the named terminator guy, Erasmus Golg.
Google image server it if you're curious about some more pics, pic related isn't my work but the guy has a blog with a lot of cool stuff.
>>44119566
Yeah, but that's like the most stock conversion of all time. As pretty as those models are, I'd like something a little more unique looking.
>>44119605
Yeah, I know, but at least it's something. I wish IW had better unique stuff too. Their infantry conversion set really sucks and was a bit of a disappointment, there's really no reason to use it over standard Mk II or Mk III armor. Building Tyrants is also expensive as fuck if you buy Contemptor Cyclone Missile Launchers and ends up looking pretty bland as well. It seems bringing the IW to life really comes down to how well you can paint hazard stripes and wash your metal dudes.
I get that part of being an Iron Warrior is being expendable, generic and nameless, but that shouldn't extend to their characters and terminators, right? Oh well, at least Perty has a cool model. I wish GW would start copying some of the FW design queues and start putting huge ammo feeds on heavy weapons like all the FW stuff has. They look so coooool.
>>44119605
Wait for the character model IMO. They're always worth the wait...
Every time I see one come out like Garro or Eidolon I just go "I'm can't wait till my legions' characters get released" or "Man it must suck to be the people using crappy counts-as conversions of those guys." Same goes for Primarchs and people using scratch-built or third party ones like Kabuki. The FW ones are always way better.
>>44119862
Do you think Flaymaster Mawdrym Llansahai the Night Lords Apothecary will get a model? I currently use a Mk III Apothecary for him.
>>44120172
I wouldn't hold out for anything below a Praetor rank at this point, especially for legions that have already gotten a lot of models like Night Lords. They still have to do models for a lot more armies so the gaps that are left in the previous legions are probably going to remain unfilled.
Is it a safe bet to expect that Bjorn will get a character model?
>>44118109
PE:IC only activates when you directly affect the model with IC, not the unit theyr'e in.
The downside to that is, depending on, if you rule Nex as a 'consul'(which im inclined to believe he is ig Pharon counts as chappy etc) you cant take alibby and him in a decap strike list
Other than that everything but AV14+ dies
>even recast 30k rhinos are 28 bucks a pop
welp
>>44120288
Just buy actual Rhinos on eBay for like $15-20. It's cheaper, plastic, and you don't have to deal with assembling resin. They won't be Deimos though unless you buy the RT one.
>>44120441
Oh no worries on that end, got plenty of rhinos. Was just hoping to find the Deimos ones for a more spammable price. Oh well not a big deal, my bigger issue with recasters is having to wait a month for my stuff.
>>44120467
Assuming you're from NA and not EU you have to wait a long time for FW and German/UK/AU eBay sellers too so it's a wash. I hate that wait too, when you just need one more part or kit and you ordered it a week ago and it's still not going to be here for a while.
>>44117786
They're mentioned somewhere in the HH books or something aren't they?
>>44117786
You already got the other two and the Leviathan, be patient.
>>44120207
Thats kinda what I was thinking too. All good, I just stuck a bare head on the Mk III Apothecary model and it looks cool enough.
>>44119748
I just kind of wish that Warsmiths were worth a damn, they're suppose to be the best guys at supply and logistics of war and exist outside the standard hierarchy of the legion, but just get rid of your warlord trait for the privilege of losing wargear options, being worth more VP's, and losing your warlord trait so you can nerf one piece of cover (in an army that spams bolters and barrage weapons).
The rank and file Legionaries being generic isn't an issue, if any one legion embodied the concept of the Imperiums expendable, nameless, faceless trigger-men its the Iron warriors, but there officers are a breed of insane, bitter, paranoid, darkly humored warriors, scientists and engineers who over match their opponents with weight of arms, martial skill and cruel ingenuity in equal measure. So for fuck sake give me some cool upgrades for my HQ choices, like a Siege Breaker warsmith that removes the 0-1 artillery limit, or a forge lord warsmith that makes dreads and preds troops. Hell, I would be happy if they just made the assault after rapid fire thing part of the Iron Warriors Legion rules and then replaced it with something awesome in the Hammer of Olympia rules, like letting vehicles buy siege plating (castellan rhinos, anyone?), or letting iron warriors models reroll to-hit rolls of 1 in the enemies deployment zone, so your incentivized to take masses of power armoured dudes and run them guns blazing, under a hail of artillery, into the teeth of enemy fire all while not giving a fuck about your own casualties.
>>44118109
Yeah Moritats are ridiculous. A double melta pistol Moritat hitting with each pistol until he rolls a 1? thats avg.10 melta shots into something in one turn.
>>44120788
>I just stuck a bare head on the Mk III Apothecary model and it looks cool enough.
That reminds me, when are we getting helmet options for the Primarchs and other helmetless models for those of us who don't like bare heads or play things like Zone Mortalis in space?
>>44120880
The fuck? Where is the melta option for Moritats? I always thought I was stuck with plasma and volkite.
