One of my group members wants to assassinate another member (We'll call them A and B), and I'm not sure how to proceed. DnD 5e
A plans to drug B with something that will put him into a deep sleep, and give him complete control of his dreams for a few hours. When B is immobilized, A plans to slit his throat quick and easy. The questions being:
1: Should I give him the kill? I don't really see the point of rolling an attack on an completely incapacitated target.
2: Should I try to keep this knowledge hidden from the rest of the group? I'm not sure if I could trust them to keep from metagaming and ganging up on A if he were discovered.
You should kick player A from the group for being a douchebag who wants to ruin the game for other players. There is no excuse. If you can't play nice with others, you don't get to play. Most people learn this in grade-school.
>>440719281
1. Fuck no.
2. See above.
Are the players in competition over something? What's the campaign like?
>>44071928
Kiss your group goodbye.
DnD isn't PvP. If the players try to make it into that then there's an underlying social issue. And at least one is ready to resort to murder to have his way.
My suggestion would be to leave the game for now and play something competitive like EiJ or Fiasco. See if you can address the issue. If not, change up the entire group. Kicking people out is never good.
>>44071928
Talk to him about it. Pretend he's an adult. Tell him that its bad form, that its going to risk ruining the game for everyone, and you're not willing to be an accomplice to that.
Should you insist on going through with it for some reason, yes, you make him roll for it. The 'point' is to minimize the irritation and feeling of having been screwed over that the dead character's player is going to experience.
Really though, you should just not do that. Any of it.
This isn't a rules issue. My rule of thumb for inter-party shenanigans is that anything that's fun for BOTH PARTIES goes. I've had player characters screw each other out of mission rewards and beat each other up but this has all been in good humor and generally hilarious for all involved. The important distinction here is whether it's the players or the characters screwing each other.
I'm gonna bet in 99% of games including yours the player getting killed wouldn't find it very fun.
This sort of stuff is resolved off the table with a frank discussion of what the game is and isn't before it becomes a problem.
>>44072848
I agree with this post
>>44072848
This
But I'm gonna go ahead and post my lengthy response anyway
>>44071928
>Should I give him the kill?
PC A should have a Sleight of Hand check to slip the drug to B, with modifiers based on the situation.
PC B should get a roll to detect the drug and another to resist it.
Once the drug is fully in effect, if it were an NPC, it would be no question an automatic kill.
It sounds like the drug would put him in a position where he would not get a saving throw to wake up.
Remember to consider whether the other party members have a chance of discovering the throat slitting.
Does PC A have a plan to explain the sudden assassination or is he just going to whistle innocently?
>Should I try to keep this knowledge hidden from the rest of the group?
If it happens, I would them make the rolls and play the results as the group discovering the PC dead, without revealing how it happened.
Or, if he detects it or resists it, then he can proceed to deduce the source of the poison as normal.
Continued cause I am a wordy bitch...
>>44071928
Seems needlessly convoluted. Why not just use poison?
Anyway, player B should definitely be given any and all fair chances to detect the poison, and to ignore its effects. Also, the other players should get rolls if A does any of this in front of them, or when B takes the poison but before they go to sleep. Someone who's drugged will probably act a bit off, after all.
>>44072920
Now the real questions that you should be asking:
>Is this okay?
Is PVP an established option in your group?
Will your player, and the others, be okay with his character dying off screen with just a save or die roll?
>Should your player get a chance to defend themselves?
Is there a conceivable way to offer them a saving throw to wake up?
>Is meta-gaming working for the assassin?
A player might assume they are safe from another PC because of the unwritten rule that PCs don't kill party members.
Typically these are the guys who watch while you sleep in camp and have your back in battle.
If the assassin has given the slightest outward signs that they might attempt something like this, I would ask an Insight roll from the victim first (perhaps not telling them what the roll is or for).
>My real first question is why is this happening?
Is it 100% in character and character motivated?
Or, is it a situation where "It's what my character would do?" is an excuse?
Are PC A's motivations real and worth a PC death and delaying or ruining the participation of another player?
Whatever the scenario, if it happens, do it at the end of the session or have a temporary character for Player B to use so they don't spend the session rolling up a new character.
If Player A is just being a dick, pic related
>>44072920
>>44072999
Well said!
Maybe you should switch to board games for a few weeks?
http://www.kodtweb.com/2011/05/25/payback-rides-a-dark-horse-part-i-3/
If A kills B, the don't be surprised if the next PC B makes is going to murder A as soon as possible, in the most efficient way possible.
>>44071928
No
Player A is a dick
B should enjoy A's happy lot
A should die in misery
(assuming, of course, I am B)
I say use this whole situation as means of a fun adventure.
The supplier of a drug that paralyzes the victim's body and allows their dreams to be manipulated?
A fucking Fey or trickster spirit.
A fucking Fey or trickster spirit that intends to take the entire party on a crazy ride.
Start describing strange occurrences -- maybe they see a discolored plant or animal. Maybe they see something in the sky that doesn't quite belong. Don't go full drug trip quite yet. Have NPC's they know behave a little...oddly.
Let the assassination go off without a hitch. And once Player B is dead, have his torn neck flap sprout ivy or spiders crawl out. And miraculously, Player B is still alive despite his neck being slit.
Turns out the fucking Fey or trickster spirit has been following the party and trapped them in its own personal demi plane of illusions. And the players all failed their hidden Insight / Perception rolls (or have them roll at the beginning of the session and don't tell them what it's for).
NOW begin the acid trip sequence. Player A technically gets what he wants and now they have to escape this trippy plane while working out their differences. Good opportunity for RP and shenanigans.
>>44078217
Also, in case I didn't make it clear enough, Player B DOESN'T really die and is unharmed. Once (if) they escape, his neck is slit-free.
>>44072920
>>44072999
Player A here, OP is going to work and asked I explain this situation more since we're roommates. So I'm gonna give some details on this situation.
My character makes drugs and B has tested drugs for me before. So he'd knowingly take something I'd hand to him because all the drugs I make basically boil down to wizard pot with extra effects. The only thing I'd be lying about to him is that I'd be handing him a dosage with already known effects instead of the usual "Smoke this and tell me how you feel."
Plan for afterwards isn't as important since I'm not the only party member who isn't a fan of the character player B is rolling since it's a dick thief. There's two other party members who have expressed a dislike of the thief and one of them has already been stolen from and our party's attempts at adopting lesser creatures for shits and giggles have been met with B rolling to stab our new found friend/bag-bitch, then saying, out of character, that he's just doing this to make the majority of the party annoyed. Now I don't actually think this is enough for motivation to kill him, the other two do but I'm planning it out in-case he continues to rub everyone the wrong way and steal our shit. The actual player is fine, none of us have any complaints about him. Our dislike of his character is based on our characters being robbed, plans being foiled, and his thief being a dick about foiling our plans for no reason and stealing our things. If I had to though I'd burn down the building he was in and act like our current villain must have sent an assassin since that is something they would do.
PvP is established: "If your characters don't get along and you decide to kill each other it is my job as DM to allow it." Meta gaming has been warned with "If you gaze into the fourth wall, it will gaze into you." This is pretty early in the campaign so none of our characters really know each other all that well. But most of us made back-up characters anyways.
>>44079952
>If your characters don't get along and you decide to kill each other it is my job as DM to allow it.
That DM detected
>>44079952
Greetings Player A,
I am pleased to discover you are not hypothetical and that my investment into a real answer was deserved.
>PvP is established
>Most of us made back-up characters anyways.
So he has no reason to call foul, really.
This was the most important point, the rest is just gravy.
>I'm not the only party member who isn't a fan of B
Party is onboard
>I'm planning it out in-case he continues to rub everyone the wrong way and steal our shit.
A potential measured response instead of a kneejerk reaction
>The actual player is fine
There should be no OOC drama
>Our dislike of his character is based on our characters being robbed, plans being foiled, and his thief being a dick about foiling our plans for no reason and stealing our things.
Depending on the setting, that behavior would get a character killed pretty quick
>he'd knowingly take something I'd hand to him
So no sleight of hand roll.
He might deserve an Insight roll contested by a bluff roll from you, (perhaps roll beforehand and have the DM play the Insight roll off as a random effects roll for the "new drug") but if he takes the drug, back off, let him pass out, then he wakes up dead.
>I'd burn down the building he was in and act like our current villain must have sent an assassin since that is something they would do.
This is as good a plan to cover your character's tracks as any.
Fire tends to hide most physical evidence, but make sure whoever owns the building won't involve diviners.
Perhaps compensate them?
Remember that openly committing murder is never a good idea.
Anyone worth killing, is worth killing well.
All in all, I'd say that as long as cold blooded murder of a man for being a dickish thief is something your character would do, then proceed.
And try your best to hide the truth from the player, just for the illusion and anti-metagame reasons, pic related
>>44082100
>He might deserve an Insight roll contested by a bluff roll from you, (perhaps roll beforehand and have the DM play the Insight roll off as a random effects roll for the "new drug") but if he takes the drug, back off, let him pass out, then he wakes up dead.
That was what I thought would be the best way to handle it, but I'm not the DM so I made sure to ask him and he's never had players assassinate each other in a manner where the dead wouldn't even know who did it.
>All in all, I'd say that as long as cold blooded murder of a man for being a dickish thief is something your character would do, then proceed.
So far my character has shown the ability to be merciless but so far only to foes. B has been relying on the unspoken rule of "Do not murder each other goddammit" to feel free of consequences for his actions. I wouldn't put it past him to not suspect it.
Of course this is if B's character continues his rampant dickery and doing things purely for the sake of getting everyone else mad.
This is some bitchy shit.
If the campaign setting is right, interparty conflict can be an awesome part of the campign.
I played a pirate campaign where everysingle character wanted to be captain. The character turnover was stupidly high as each player attempeted to back stab there way to the top. The longest run with a single captain was 3 sessions.
All the players knew this going in and it was key to the game being enjoyable.
But if you aren't playing that sort of campaign then why would you as the DM allow it? Is it going to make the camapaign enjoyable for all concerned? If not, don't allow it. Especially not with a crappy "You get no rolls to save" ending for the dead character.
>>44079952
Just warm him first, if you don't show him how you feel, how can you expect him to change?
He goes against the will of the party, beat him within an inch of his life.
He steals from you, take away all his gold.
Something goes missing, beat the shit out of him till it gets back.
Its not meta if you know that he is a dick. Everything that goes wrong is probably his fault.
>>44079952
Alright, here's my advice.
1) If your problem with Player B is an OOC thing, don't bring your issues to the table. I know you say the problem is with the character, not the player, but It just has to be said anyway. I've had too many groups crumble because of personal problems not related to the game.
2) Talk to the player about how his character is acting. Trying to defuse the situation out of character is usually the best route. Killing their character suddenly without discussing with the player is asking for trouble.
3) Pursue any means of resolving the issue in character, if possible. Have your character tell his to knock it the fuck off or you'll ditch him for your next adventure. Given that the majority of the party feels the same way, you can afford to give him an ultimatum.
4) At this point, if he hasn't responded at all to your attempts at diplomacy, in or out of game, ditch his character completely and go do a quest without him. Try and get the GM to tell the problem player "Your character's been left behind, if you want to keep adventuring you can make a new one." That usually gets the player to wise up and improve, or else leave the group.
>>44071928
I'd allow it, but give player B every check in the book to figure out something specific that would give away A's plans. If A isn't the sneakiest bastard in the world, it won't work.
Also, he'd need a damn good in-character reason. No "Oh Dave's playing a half-orc and I'm racist against half-orcs," something that'd make me understand fully why they were the type of person who was going to do this.
I'm betting your Player A isn't doing it for roleplaying, though, and is probably just being a chode. Feel free to fuck with that guy if this is the case.
>>44085087
We've been warning him in character. Basically, once we're all working on something outside of combat he's just gonna try to dick it. Every time he'll say "It's what my character would do." Which is really all he'll say about his character. But like I said it's early on and this is all based on if we can't get through to him.
>>44085259
1: Like I said before, it's not an OOC issue but I understand that it bears repeating.
2: So far that has all been met with "It's my character" but I'm still trying.
3: Honestly I don't wanna take away his fun, I'd rather just beat him up and warn him, but the easiest way to do that would probably be the drug plan and just beat him while he's unconscious, or start fucking with the drugs he requests.
4: If we leave him behind and he has to make a new character then functionally its the same as killing him but diplomacy is never underrated. Which is a message we've been telling him. We'll solve something non-violently and he'll just waltz in, hear what we did, and roll to stab them in the face.
>>44085754
Gee maybe read the thread nigga.
>>44086028
Doesn't sound like he's an okay guy to me, but rather a fucking douchebag who deserves his character thoroughly beaten and killed.
>>44086954
I think I might be making him out worse than he is by just pointing out reasons to kill him. Though I do feel like he's trying to play his character a bit like he's in a Bethesda game with the way he just gets strangely fixated on anything slightly unique.
>>44071928
How big are you/your group on roleplaying?
Because if you're adults, and big on roleplaying, the solution might be to bring it up with both of them, ask if they're both okay, and if not haggle something out betwixt the three of you until everyone's reasonably content.
But yeah, "fuck off m8 no pvp here" is pretty understandable.
>>44071928
>ITT millennials can't handle confrontation and flip their shit at the mere prospect of some happening in a D&D game
It's no wonder women hate you
>>44071928
Keep it seperate from the rest of the group, though roll to see if they notice.
And as for the kill... eeeeeh, maybe give it a roll to see if yer man wakes up but if yer gonna go ahead with it you might as well go all in
>>44090483
Shut the fuck up you fucking grognard piece of shit.
