If a game other than D&D could dominate the market for RPGs, which one would you want it to be? For whatever reasons.
Anything besides Warhammer 40k.
But let's be honest, it would be Warhammer 40k.
I'd still pick D&D
There's is something wrong with just how butthurt people are about D&D.
Is it the best brand? That's actually not too bold of a statement, and it's certainly not a bad group of games by any measure.
Just because your favorite game isn't by far the most popular doesn't mean that you need to whine about all the little problems you have with it that are mostly a matter of preference.
>>44066990
DnD is hated for 2 reasons.
1. It's popular.
2. People who have no idea how to roleplay have broken it apart mechanically, revealing all the imbalances in the crunch for those willing to exploit the rules and min-max. Somehow this is objective evidence that the game is bad... even though a good GM will find a way to keep everyone useful or tweak their power levels.
[spoilers] Casters with access to multiple schools of magic are still broken as fuck though.
>>44067054
>our system isn't broken because we are able to work around the parts that are broken
You realize why you're retarded right, fanboy?
>>44067054
>People who have no idea how to roleplay
How is the stormwind fallacy still alive today?
>>44067122
Because it's not even remotely a fallacy.
>>44066912Mine.
>>44066912
Shadowrun. Maybe then we could get a version that isn't shit finally. Also, I miss the 90s.
>>44067095
All games are pretty easy to break, and pretending otherwise is you simply not knowing the game well enough.
>>44067140
>Hurr if you optimize you can't roleplay
Whatever, anon. Enjoy playing half the game forever.
>>44067140
>>44067155
Seconding.
>>44067172
Who's making the false arguments now?
Being able to optimize and knowing when you're a dick for optimizing in a group with a bunch of players who aren't so you can have a fun game without overshadowing them are entirely seperate things.
>>44067095
>>44067054
Please, faggots. You're BOTH right.
If a game can be easily broken to one's advantage then obviously it's poorly designed. It indicates a lack of skill or desire to fix said problems on the designer's part.
But this is a table top role playing game where anything is possible. It mimics real life to the extent of the game's interest and real life. Isn't fair.
That's why it's up to the DM to keep things from getting out of control. It's kind of like saying Soccer is a shit game because it would be easy to score a goal if the goal keeper wasn't there. But he is, and that's part of the game.
>>44066912
>tfw you spend all your money on fancy sword, body armour and boots but can't afford any pants
it's just like in the days of my early teens playing weeb MMOs
>>44066912
Runequest6.
HERO, best universal system.
>>44066912
GUR...oh shit, I almost said it.
>>44066912
Savage Worlds - It's everything an RPG should be. Easy to learn, mechanically simple, quick to play, crunch-light, modular and adaptable.
>>44066912
I think I'd like to see Call of Cthulhu, or BRP Basic RolePlaying system dominate the industry. It's simple, unpretentious, focused on setting over crunch and adaptable to a variety of genres.
Paragon, if for the sole reason that I was one of the beta testers (which was a hell of a fun experience) and have more experience with it than even D&D, which I played pretty extensively through high school.
>>44066912
>If a game other than D&D could dominate the market for RPGs, which one would you want it to be?
Well, since it's my favorite, and most people don't consider it D&D, and even I'm keen to agree (I don't much care for any other game with the D&D name attached,) I'd have to say 4e.
>>44067210
But 'The GM can fix it' is universally applicable.
It's a statement that can be applied to any game you can imagine, but it isn't a defense from criticism. The broken mechanics in D&D make the GMs job harder- Which makes it a bad game system.
A good system, in contrast, is one which has lots of things that make a GMs job easier, like encounter building guidelines, useful plot hooks or narrative mechanics they can use to interact with the PCs.
One of the best examples of D&D (specifically 3.PF) sucking at this is the CR system, which is utterly wonky. It's meant to let you build balanced encounters, but it doesn't even give a vague indication of the actual strength of it, with some monsters ludicrously over or undercosted, and others having bizarre options, like the 1/2 CR monster with a Save or Die I've heard mentioned a few times.
>>44066912
Since Im not a Tabletop-Hipster I am okay with D&D.
>>44067193
Not him, but you're talking about munchkins.
The Stormwind Fallacy is that someone who is skilled at/enjoys optimizing is unable to roleplay because its somehow impossible to do both.
>>44067054
>2. People who have no idea how to roleplay have broken it apart mechanically
This anon invoked the fallacy by claiming that anyone who actually knew how DnD worked (and therefore know its a broken piece of shit) is incapable of roleplaying.
Because apparently to roleplay you have to be functionally retarded and incapable of understanding how rules work.
There's nothing wrong with D&D in theory, a fantasy adventure game obviously has an audience. I fell out of love with D&D a while ago, but I actually really enjoy D&D 4e, and I guess my preference would be if 4e had been a success and was continued to be supported.
5e D&D... It isn't a bad game, but it's a boring one. The mechanics are so very stale and dull compared to my experience with other RPGs. But I'm not the target audience. The people who love D&D love 5e, and I can't really say I'd want another game to be dominant without wishing the RPG audience changed wildly. I wish consistent design philosophy and direction and engaging, balanced mechanics were a big draw, but they're not. People want a game that Feels like D&D (whatever that means), and 5e is an incredibly good product for satisfying that demand.
>>44066912
FATAL
>>44068400
GURPS or Fate. Either one.
If a universal system dominated the market, I feel like people would be more willing to exit the comfort zone of "vaguely 800-1300 AD Western Europe with magic" that D&D appeals to and brings EVERYONE in to. GURPS and Fate are the two extremes when it comes to universal systems, and both have their strengths. GURPS becoming dominant in the market = rise in modular, detailed, but simple-at-their-core games that can be adapted to any setting. Fate becoming dominant in the market = rise in narrative games adaptable to any setting. Both would be a great improvement over the flawed ones that currently dominate.
Coming from a D&D 3.5 and 5E, Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader, Shadowrun, and now GURPS player.
Apocalypse World.
Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000.
>>44066912
ORE
>>44066912
In all seriousness: GURPS
So long as the GM lays down what books to use (normally just the Core + 1 side-book, 2 at most), and is clear about their intents and themes/tone of the campaign, the "jack of all trades, master of none," and, "modulated to hell flaws," everyone projects upon it become irrelevant, and the "too much math," flaw has never been true. The most math you have to do is when calculating your Basic Lift and Basic Movement tiers. Beyond that it's generally single digit addition and subtraction.
>>44066912
MARVEL
HEROIC
ROLEPLAYING
and its never ever spinoffs.
God I want to play that so much.
Legend of the Wulin
>Implying making the "default" RPG setting Wuxia wouldn't be fucking awesome
>>44066938
40k is a wargame, not an RPG, you fucking mong
>>44067155
Oo, extra spicey faggotry. Nice.
>>44066912
Spycraft 2.0
Does everything, does it well.
>>44068655
I would fucking love this, both because of the awesome setting and because LotW is the only game so far to have hit the perfect balance, for me, between mechanical complexity and narrative focus.
Most crunchy games are light on narrative mechanics, most narrative games are light on crunch, but LotW proves it's a false dichotomy. I know it's not to everyones taste, but I really want to see more games go the same direction and see what other awesome experiences can be created along those lines, since it seems like a really untapped design space.
Racial Holy War
>>44068690
I've never played LotW, but I enjoy the concept of 'laughs at' and 'fears' in combat systems. It adds more depth IMO, because you could theoretically probe an unknown opponent for his weakness and then exploit it while trying not to show your hand.
>>44068722
Yeah, the Laughs at and Fears subsystem is a neat part of the game. I play a Warrior in a game whose main job, in group combats, is assessing opponents, as she has a batshit crazy Tactics score, plus a Warriors Art that gives her a bonus to assessing styles, so I can feed information to our other fighters on how to undermine our opponents. Something you learn when playing LotW is that every little +5/-5 bonus can really matter, so figuring out how to stack them up can really be to your benefit. Which neatly ties into the narrative side, because almost all of those small modifiers have to be narratively justified or exploited. I just love that clever mixing of crunch and fluff.
>>44067155
>Showing your mastery of a system is a demonstration of not understanding that system well enough.
>>44068837
Your ready comprehension lacks friendo.
GURPS. It breaks away from the realm of fantasy wizard stuff to do games about quite a lot of things-but its magic system and settings are top-notch. Plus, i'm a sucker for simulationism and gun porn.
>>44068676
But there are at least four 40K RPG's, and they're all at least moderately successful with a decent following, and Rogue Trader is one of the most popular RPG's outside the DnD/Pathfinder games.
>>44066912
ShadowRun, so i could finally get a game.
or, savage worlds, because i really like the system.
>>44066990
>Dnd 5e
>pathfinder
>Dnd 3.5
>'other games'
>Dnd 4e
>Warhammer
>Star Wars
Who the hell organised this chart?
>>44066912
Maid RPG
>>44069108
Rogue Trader was actually outselling DnD before 5e hit.
>>44066912
Mutants and Masterminds
>>44066912
Next edition of Warhammer fantasy made after Warhammer Total War becomes crazy popular.
Since we are talking about just one rpg becoming the d&d.
I would pick gurps, since its sort of many rpgs into one, so its like cheating and not picking just one rpg
>>44068440
Take comfort in the warmth of a massive dwarven bosom.
FATAL
>>44072762
This'd actually nice, the basic common game type being silly and jovial comedy gaming that anyone can dive into for a few hours.
>>44066912
Who the fuck stole her trousers?
Is that what she's on a quest for? To reclaim her trousers?
>>44066912
>If a game other than D&D could dominate the market for RPGs, which one would you want it to be? For whatever reasons.
Legends of the Wulin or Star Wars Force & Destiny.
>>44066912
maid: the rpg
cyberpunk or shadowrun
>>44072928
what exactly is happening in that picture anyway?
the hammer is being swung at an impossible angle, he twice the size of anyone else despite being in the background.
Dungeon World.
>>44068691
RaHoWa isn't even capable of filling the niche it wants to fill, though.
Savage Worlds
Bliss Stage.
>>44074750
It's just bad art, anon.
All of the art in FATAL is bad. Like "fuck spending money to hire an artist to draw the pictures for our book, I took some art classes in college ten years ago I'll do it myself," bad.
>>44066912
FATAL.
>>44066990
D&D is a niche game in terms of the type of thing it's built for, and being the first mass marketed RPG, it has elements that are a bit primitive. Brand recognition is the primary driver of D&D's popularity, and this brand recognition came not from D&D being awesome, but from it being first.
Now, I'm not saying D&D is terrible or anything, but it's certainly not the ideal dominant system out there. Something more versatile would be ideal--maybe something along the lines of Savage Worlds or BRP.
>>44080740
The main problem with other RPGs is that very few give as much attention to helping the GM as D&D does, very rare to have random treasure, encounter, monster levels, adventure site generators, etc.
Such things are sneered at by snooty elitist indie developers, but its one thing holding them back from being the king of RPGs.
>>44067241
Or like, you know, most of history.
These modern times and their spoiled kids...
>>44066912
PANTS
PUT ON SOME PANTS
Fate.
Because fuck you.
>>44066912
The new Infinity rpg. All about that setting.
>>44080930
>>44080930
Dnd doesn't 'give help to DM' it gets them a load of random charts to roll on.
It not bad but it's not the same as teaching them have to run a narratively coherent fun game.
>>44066990
L5R and Co. beats CyberPunk and Exalted?
cool.
Dogs in the Vineyard. Just for the absurd arguments and conversations.
>>44066912
Pic related.
>>44067154
maybe a d20 version of shadowrun
(5e "engine")
or maybe a Mouseguard / dominion hybrid(dunno, just shitposting at this point)
>>44084286
>d20 Shadowrun
That sounds like the worst fucking thing
>>44067543
My only sorta problem with BRP is that your character is pretty much at full power from the get-go. There isn't a whole lot of mechanical character development other than learning spells.
This works fine for Call of Cthulhu where the focus is on investigation, but I'm not sure it really jives with heroic fantasy.
>>44083784
Have you actually checked both AD&D DMGs and the 5e DMG, because they're mostly about that.
>>44067154
I vaguely hope Catalyst loses the license after the boondoggle that was 5th, but the guys who own it will probably still fuck it up anyway, and let's be honest, 1e Shadowrun was also an unplayable mess.
>>44081103
>>44074243
>>44066912
In this setting nobody attacks below the navel or above the knees
>>44081103
>>44074243
>2015
>wearing pants
Shaking my head family to be honest.
>>44066912
>For whatever reasons.
A game of my own design so I can be rich and famous.
>>44066912
MAID.
>>44074218 says it well.
>>44066912
FATAL. The shitstorm would be amazing.
>>44089626
imagine if people were actually like
>not FATAL?
>not interested
>>44066912
TBE. You need no reason to see why
>>44090053
What does TBE stand for?
>>44066912
BURPS
>>44066912
Myfarog
>>44067054
>even though a good GM will find a way to keep everyone useful or tweak their power levels.
GM are not magical creature that enjoy being miserable task for your entertainement. yes a good GM can work around almost everything, that doesn't mean he'd rather play a game that make everything an uphill battle to maintain equilibrium instead of a game that work with him and let him concentrate on more interesting things.
>>44066912
GURPS.
It has the best research around, a solid and flexible system that combines with their willingness to explore new genres in depth and breadth, a wide variety of very interesting settings that deserve their own series of books - and are a damn sight more interesting than more fucking Faerun or Golarion.
They also focus on quality over showmanship, which doesn't help them attract new players because of the lack of pretty pictures and marketing gimmicks, but wouldn't matter in this scenario.
>>44068676
It's also a setting with four associated RPGs.
