What is the best Miniature wargame overall?
8/8
>>44046173
Oh, is that what we're gonna do today? We're gonna fight?
>>44046173
Your least favorite
infinity or malifaux
>>44046173
Not 40K.
40k
>>44046173
Necromunda for sci-fi and Mordheim for fantasy.
>>44046173
Little Wars.
>>44046329
>Mordheim for Fantasy.
Mordheim had a very good random chart but the rest was a mess. I would say Song of Blades and heroes is better for a fantasy game for using any mini you have.
Anything but infinity or malifaux
The best one people near you actually play.
>>44046329
>Necromunda
The original rulebook is pretty poorly balanced. The Living Rulebook is playable, but a bit iffy. The Community Edition is pretty damn good.
>>44046222
Don't we enjoy fighting?
Or arguing.
Age of Sigmar
Probably X-wing.
>>44046667
This - without opponents all you're doing is collecting toy soldiers.
Little Wars, but HG Wells
Of those not defunct and going at the moment that's more than just two factions who play almost the same, it's probably Infinity. It has the best balance at the moment, and despite the balance each army has its own different style going on with a complex set of rules.
Overall I would say the last editions of Epic: Armageddon 40k and Warmaster (Warhammer Fantasy). Both were for 40k and Fantasy respectively the large scale battle systems, and both required the most tactical skill of any GW thing. The balance was also very well done while at the same time everything was very fluffy getting the best of both worlds. So I would put them with Infinity overall.
1st edition 40k/Rogue Trader and 3rd edition Warhammer Fantasy are also worth noting because looking at both retrospectively they have a very unique style.
>>44046173
The one with the great models, solid rules, fun scenarios, friendly player base and good company support at major tournaments
>>44051681
>The one with the great models
rules out warmahordes
>solid rules
rules out warmahordes again
>fun scenarios
definitely rules out warmahordes
>friendly player base
holy shit warmahordes is right out completely
>and good company support at major tournaments
well at least warmahordes has that
Not OP, but I got a question:
What's the cheapest miniature wargame?
>>44046173
My Penis
>>44052253
Some mini wargame with free rules, using scraps of paper with names of minis on them, books as terrain, and dice from your collection of family boardgames
>>44052303
That sounds neat. Got a name of one handy?
Guildball! ever since i started trying it i compare every other system to it
>>44052269
This
Best minature game.
Fairy meat. The game of cannibalistic fairy war bands
The only miniature's war game on the real life one-to-one scale.
>>44052269
/thread
Most miniature there is
>>44051719
Someone's had their ass beat one too many times and decided it must be everyone else's fault.
>>44052303
>>44052325
What was the /tg/ game using toys and shit?
>>44054470
Toy hammer?
>>44046222
Seems appropriate in the wargame thread. Heyo.
We have a simple strategy at Games Workshop. We make the best fantasy miniatures in the world and sell them globally at a profit and we intend to do this forever.
The products we make for our customers are the best in the wargaming world. This is because everyone at Games Workshop is passionate about our Hobby.
>>44047745
Gonna vote for this.
Or Kings of War.
>>44047883
>Little Wars, by HG Wells
Little Wars actually has a fairly ingenious solution to the problem of army deployment: typically, whoever deploys first is at a disadvantage, because their opponent can deploy their forces to counter.
Little wars solves this by having both players deploy simultaneously while their servants hold up a curtain between them.
It's kind of amazing to think that the guy that sort of invented science fiction also sort of invented tabletop wargaming. He was like the Leonardo da Vinci of fa/tg/uys.
>>44047745
X-Wing is good but it's not really what you'd think of as a wargame. You're not controlling armies your controlling ships.
On the same category i'm not sure skirmish games count either.
>>44046173
No such thing. There are bad wargames and there are good wargames, but it all depends on what you want to play; what type of warfare? What level of engagement? How many miniatures do you want to use? What period or setting? How quick do you want to play? How in depth do you want to go? What kind of mechanics do you want to focus on? What scale do you want to play in?
A wargame could be the absolute best at giving a quickly played modern naval game in 1/1200 but that wargame would be rubbish for playing massive fantasy battles in 15mm, for example.
>>44055033
And a wargame for skirmish level old west with lots of crunch and simulation would be useless if you wanted to do WW1 aerial combat, for another example.
How good a wargame is depends on how well it works for you and lets you do what you want, whether it's company level Modern warfare in 28mm or divisional level Napoleonics in 6mm.
>>44054808
It's actually and ok ruleset except for shooting toy cannons.
>>44054692
How is king of war anyway?
I've heard it's a lot like Warhammer but with reasonable prices and balance rules.
Which I think we can agree is all what most people really want.
>>44055058
Yeah, the skill shots with cannons is kind of jank. A friend of mine tried it with plastic army mens and Nerf guns, but I think maybe the Nerf guns were more powerful than whatever shit Wells had lying around at the turn of the century,
It has the advantage of being miniatures-agnostic, but I doubt anyone is going to be in favor of getting their minis shot at with Nerf guns and launched into the kitchen or whatever.
What is, objectively, the best flavour of ice cream?
>>44055086
Kings of War is like WFB light in many ways.
On the plus the game is very streamlined. A lot of the fat is cut out and what is left is a faced paced, balanced, tactical game that is very fun.
The downside is it lacks flavor. Your units don't have the same identity as they do in WFB. You can't customize as much. Everything feels more generic. Also magic and warmachines seem to blow ass. In WFB they were fucking OP, but the solution they went with it to make those parts basically useless.
The result is that the game has some problems (every game does). In the end, I liked WFB's rules better.(only when it was a balanced match up) However, KOW is solid and worth a playing. (games I have played all feel pretty balanced) Especially if you already have models since there is 0 investment.
>>44055743
Mint chocolate chip
>>44054646
You can fight in here! This is a wargames thread!
>>44046173
I would say Ostfront, but I'm biased because me and my friends designed it over the last 6 years.
>Campaign map for combination of strategy AND tactical tabletop battles
>Quick to play, easy to set up and break down
>Cheap models (uses cheap 1/72 WW2 kits)
>Balanced lists and points system
>Realistic / Accurate while still being simple to play
>Games can swing wildly, from "oh shit I'm so fucked" to "I'm going to win!" in 2 turns, then back to "Oh shit I'm so fucked" in another 2 turns.
>Total combined arms: Tanks, infantry, artillery, air support and air defense, light vehicles, recon, veterans, conscripts, mines, entrenchment of vehicles, bunkers, katyusha / rocket launchers.
My group of friends play a lot of different games, having all started with 40k and WHFB, then worked up to historical games (and some going to Kings of War), and we all agree its one of the best systems we've played.
I need to retype the rules in a really clear easy to understand way, and then I'll post it in a homebrew thread or something.
>>44055098
Spring loaded cannons were really common around the turn of the 20th century in terms of toys, so it was a system that made sense at the time.
>>44046173
>Which color is better than all the rest?
>>44055911
I'll have to check this out. Is it in the /hwg/ downloads archive?
>>44055839
Warmachines are useful specially if you are dorfs with engineers or Elves, also I don't know if calling it WHFB lit is the best, they have some things in common but a lot of others than aren't.
>>44055086
It's fun and fast to play,balanced and you can make truly big armies, specially when you use 15mm (instead of inches use cm and done). I played LoTR and tried to play WHFB and I tough it was a mess (specially 8th edition) and I found KoW a solid game than you can learn to play in less than a day but not so easy to master.
>>44046173
Net Epic and Net Epic Armageddon
1:Legitimately good games, would play even if I didn't have a boner for The Grim Darkness of the War Future.
2: Even though it's 6mm which is unappealing to painters, there are enough fuckhuge miniatures you can pour your love and hobby skills on to appeal to the hobbyist in me, and the rest of the army looks decent with very little effort. You can spend a week on your titan or paint 10 rhinos in an evening.
3: Over the top sci-fi and small scale means you can build your own stuff or steel miniatures from other lines, paint them the right colour and it still looks pretty okay.
4: the game is not supported by GW any more (but that's going to change, sadly) so the people you play it with are chillbros who are dorks for it, rather than sperglords who fail at everything else in life and need to win SO HARD at toy soldier fighting.
5: hunting bargains on Ebay or trying to track down shady individuals who do recasts of fan-made custom models is way more enjoyable than getting robbed at your local GW store.
6: No matter how much we hate GW or how frustrated we are with their prices or rules, you all know there's no other sci-fi setting that makes us man-children as nostalgic and pumped.
7: Clearly any other option is heresy.
Probably one of the lesser known or played ones.
WHFB/40k/AoS/Warmahordes/Infinity are pretty shit in a few or even all aspects.
LotRSB/Malifaux/X-Wing/Blood Bowl/NetEpic are nice, but also have their flaws.
So, probably some historical game. I've heard good things about Bolt Action and Saga. Never played them, though.
>>44048096
What this guy said, at least regarding Warmaster and Epic Armageddon.
The scale is right, the mechanics and fluff are right. Strip out the 40k-ness and you still have a rock solid game.
Honorable mention to Dirtside, which is great for different reasons.
I'd say atm it's Infinity.
It's the most balanced and competitive game on the market, it's fully supported, decent minis and it's buy in cost is pretty low.
![HG-Wells-008[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b1SHJFR.jpg "HG-Wells-008[1].jpg")
>>44054808
Now I just need to get me some slaves to hold the curtain up while my friends and deploy our forces.
Then they can make us some food and bring us beverages.
>mfw my family owned "indentured servants" well into the 50s
>>44056148
>>44056084
>>44048096
This. And don't forget, it's actually FUN!
You really feel like a commander getting all tactical and maneuvering a lot, which is a huge part of what I like about it.
A lot of other games just sort of feel like how the miniatures are deployed end up having a bigger effect than how they move around during the game, in Epic Armageddon/Netepic fast stuff is legit fast, and can move a LOT during the course of a game, so figuring out when you can get into the right position, crossfires and stuff like that is something you actively think about and not just something that happens some times.
>>44047745
If we're talking space, then X-wing for dogfights, BFG for spaceship battles.
I pick BFG because the leadership/special orders mechanic was very good. Full Thrust's vector movement was a great idea, but the rest of the game was lackluster. GURPS has the best spaceship construction system by far, but the game itself is just normal GURPS.
>>44056743
BFG is an unbalanced mess, though.
>>44046287
>>44046309
I'm getting mixed signals
>>44056821
It's almost as if taste can vary from person to person.
>>44056828
But op said the best, how could something that's the best be different among different people? Surely everyone would recognize the best.
>>44056841
Lel no, vegetables are best for you than sugar/syrupe, but look how fat americans are and how many suffer of diabetes.
>>44056828
Indeed but 40k is so obviously and clearly bad at this point that trying to explain to people why you like is like trying to justify your fetish for scat. It just ain't happening regardless of how much you like it.
>>44056208
There is a different between domestic help and slaves, you know.
>>44046173
I thought all the *not 40k* guys would be all over this thread pimping the games they believe are superior to 40k.
Turns out: apparently 40k really is the best.
>>44056084
>Net Epic and Net Epic Armageddon
The only logical answer.
I will soon be attempting to start a play group in my area.
I know that many people are just waiting to be converted.
Good enough for the Naval Academy, good enough for me
>>44055877
Muh fucking nigga
>>44057759
Not 40k was implied. It's kind of a fundamental wargaming knowledge.
>>44055042
>a wargame for skirmish level old west with lots of crunch and simulation
Is there a specific wargame you're referencing anon? I occasionally have a Wild Wild West itch I'd like to be able to scratch.
>>44055877
Duh.
>>44046173
I'm really liking Star Wars Armada. It really scratches the itch that warhammer fantasy used to in 6th/7th edition.
>>44046173
Clearly chess is the best wargame.
Near perfect balance, aside from deciding who gets to go first.
Simple but infinitely complex rules.
Pure unsullied fluff.
Lots of people know how to play.
>>44059499
Shhh, don't take the bait.
>>44059657
Terrain always the same.
Objectives always the same.
Rather dull sculpts.
No list customization.
No thanks.
>>44056118
What's wrong with Infinity?
>>44056084
What is the difference between Net Epic and Net Epic Armageddon?
>>44059145
good luck actually playing it without a computer or a 10 man team though
>>44056020
Here's what we have so far:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/45jrnm7xwc8uw/Ostfront_(WW2_Tabletop)
I really need to re-type the main rules. They could be much clearer.
>>44060213
Net epic was spawned from the original space marine 2nd edition rules and is very detail driven.
Net Epic Armageddon was spawned from the epic Armageddon rules and are generally a bit more abstract.
However the abstraction only promotes the tactical nature of the game rather than taking it away.
>>44059803
Bait? Um, I'm still waiting on the answer. Ante up some games anon, so I can kick GW out of my life for good!
>>44060202
The english books are complete ass, for one.
The heavy use of about a thousand special rules in the rule book only make the formatting issues worse.
It's a skirmish game, yes, but the miniatures lean heavily on the expensive side and coupled with the extreme need for terrain, it's one of the more expensive games out there. (Unless you use cardboard terrain, but even then the minis are still damn expensive)
The balance really isn't that amazing like how it is often claimed. It's no broken mess, but it's far from the Second Coming that people like to make it out.
The fluff is pretty asinine in many aspects and they outright steal designs from anime at times. There's leaning on, or referencing shit and then there's what Infinity does at times, and that can really put people off. As can the constant ass-erecting and high-heeling of female minis, I guess.
And the community is one of the worst out there. Most Infinity players are Ex-40kers that seem to have the need to prove that Infinity is the SUPERIOR GAME for ENLIGHTENED GAMERS that CAN DO NO WRONG. The hubris and houlier-than-thou attitude puts Warmahordes Players to shame.
It's not a steaming pile of shit as a game, like 40k or WHFB was, but it's just not that good either.
>>44060365
What kind of game you are looking for? That's very important to know for giving good advice. Because if you want a Grimdark SciFi Fantasy Game that shits skulls with 50-100 miniatures in 28mm heroic scale and overblown aesthetics in plastic, it's gonna be hard to find alternatives.
>>44060650
I'm more interested in hearing various opinions of what people like - in answer to OP's question - what do you like (that is better than 40k).
Warmahordes - no f'king way. Hobby is nonexistent, more cartoonish than 40k which is borderline at times and just as expensive or more (per model which is what I personally care about).
Infinity - ok, plan to try it. I get disheartened with 40k and then they release something cool which drags me back in. And I like the hobby of building a 4x4 urbanscape. It's on my plan to try list.
But besides these which aren't even good comparisons to 40k, I'm waiting for the 40k killer that I suppose just doesn't exist.
>>44060778
>Hobby is nonexistent
NoQuarter Magazine is actually pretty great regarding the hobby aspect. Many players are asshole WAACers though that couldn't care less about the hobby side, yes. But that's not really the fault of PP, they do great terrain and conversion guides.
>I'm waiting for the 40k killer that I suppose just doesn't exist.
Again, what would that constitute for you? Do you want a Squad Based 28mm game? Bolt Action is like 40k but better in every aspect. Hell, it's pretty easy to PLAY 40k in it.
There are a gorillion of amazing rulesets out there, historical, SciFi, Fantasy, you name it. You just need to know WHAT you want. Just listing great games that people like never goes anywhere.
>>44056324
yeah, but is anybody still playing E:A?
>>44060388
"I really enjoy fourty kay unironically"
>>44060957
Depends on where you live. Some areas more people than 40k, Warmahordes or anything else. Some people, fucking dead.
Looking around what players are there always was the smart thing with wargames.
>>44061098
The game looks great, but I'd have to move to an other nation to find players!
>>44060213
Both are really good but basically Netepic favours slightly more detail and special rules while Netepic Armageddon is slightly more abstract. They both play really, really great though and it's relatively painless to swap between the systems.
Personally I prefer Netepic because it has more of the old epic vibe where everything had a ton of impractical special rules (but toned down and better), but I wouldn't say it's better or worse than Armageddon.
Just as an illustration, in Netepic Armageddon you have "Titan close combat weapon" that covers most types of weapons a titan might use with one rules set, but in Netepic you have different rules for Power fists, wrecking balls and rams. Does it make a huge impact on gameplay? Not really, so it's mostly just a choice between slightly more streamlined play and slightly more flavour (not to imply that armageddon lacks flavour, just that it skips over a lot of special rules to make things a bit more generic and play smoother.)
>>44061121
Do what I did, start by yourself and build 2 armies so you can show someone the ropes. You can get started for very cheap if you focus on plastics and buying lots on ebay, Space marines and Orks cost peanuts for most models, and if you want the luxury stuff like fan-made versions of the forgeworld kits in epic scale, those are still a lot cheaper than 40k minis of comparable size.
>>44060778
40k is the niche of an army game that uses 28mm miniatures. That alone is a rarity. Reason why so many minigames are skirmishes is because massive army games are physically hard to produce
>>44061307
It's also a stupid scale to PLAY that kind of game. After the switch to 3rd Edition, 40k would have been a much better game in 15mm.
>>44061399
The problem so far with anything less than 28mm is detail.
This detail can be produced much better now with modern CAD technology, but we haven't seen it yet.
Fortunately or unfortunately, GW will be rebooting specialist games and we may see armageddon reproduced with new precision models at 6mm or whatever.
>>44061530
All of the fan made epic range is very detailed.
W40k
+models look fantastic
+Most popular game on the market, and has been since the 80's, real easy to find someone to play with
-really expensive
-run by jews
-unbalanced as fuck
Warmahordes
+Cheap to get into
+Second most popular game next to 40k, finding games isnt hard
-fanbase is full of aspies
Star Wars X-Wing/Armada
+Cheap
+Most popular space game in the market
+-Models come prepainted
Anything else? What needs to be added?
>>44061530
There are many 15mm miniatures right now that look really damn good. At least as good as 28mm used to look between 2000 and 2010. Below that, yes, details really start to bleed away, but 15mm is an amazing scale and it fuels my rageboner that it doesn't get more recognition and is in danger of being supplanted by 10mm.
>>44046173
Tomorrow's War is one of the best wargames out there. It is also written in a way that ensures it will never gain traction.
>>44054808
>you're now aware that rule was in Warhammer up to 7th ed when the tournament spazzes killed any remains of fun the game had
>>44061770
Isn't there a 15mm halo game coming?
>>44061680
>-fanbase is full of aspies
any pewter action doll game will be filled with aspies
>>44062404
Yup the good old "line up some large box lids across the table and noone's allowed to stand up far enough to see over them" deployment.
Only tried it a couple of times but it was very interesting.
>>44046173
Dropzone Commander is pretty fun.
>>44055911
gonna read into it and maybe play it with my friends, thanks for mentioning it
>>44062458
Yes
No
Maybe
Who fucking knows
They showed some shit at GenCon, but since then there was complete radio silence.
>>44062404
That rule was completely retarded and everyone knew it.
BattleShrek
