So what does /tg/ think to Numenera?
A decent setting with interesting Cooperative Storytelling mechanics? or just a mess of half backed of science fantasy, caster supremacy and 'narrative' bullshit
It's solid, but lacks a selling point.
There's nothing that makes me think "I should play this."
>So what does /tg/ think to Numenera?
Why does it feel like the same guy posts the same thread every 3-4 days?
>>44011167
not that guy, I'm only asking now cause they had the books in my flags
What do you think to stuff like all the monsters having flat attack and defence values, and only the players always rolling for both attack and defend?
Does it actually add a sense of 'agency' as claim or is it just simply needless smoke and mirrors that betrays crippling misunderstanding of probability on the part of moote cook?
>>44011097
>'narrative' bullshit
It needs more, desu. It tries to take the resource-management stuff from other narrative systems but makes it way too in-game. Fate points as XP and HP is a cool idea, but it just encourages hoarding.
Works fine if the people playing it have never played D&D or 40KRPGs or similar
>>44011325
>crippling misunderstanding of probability on the part of moote cook
Although any thread on dice and probability makes me cringe, probability isn't that hard. The game designers understand it fine. What they fail at is using probability to implement enjoyable mechanics. Failing 25% of the time at simple tasks sucks. Potentially critically failing 5% of the time at a task your entire character revolves around is atrocious.
Replacing 1d20 with 2d10 is all it takes to go from bumbling idiots to competent adventurers.
>>44011325
>>44011587
Answering the question though, flat numbers for enemies is fine. Considering there's usually more enemies and you don't want the GM rolling ten times a round. It also puts the emphasis on the PCs. It's not that the techno-cultist stumbled, it's that the Glaive is such a badass he blocks no problem.
You really need to dig to understand Numenera's attempts at narrativism sometimes.
>>44011587
While I agree what you're saying ( fan of 3d6 roll myself) I'm not sure it's relevant.
>>44011700
True but there's no real advantage to it other than ease on the GM and letting the players roll a lot.
Which isn't bad thing but per se but still seems like a misguided way to differentiate your game. You haven't change the odds just to who is rolling the dice.
>>44011097
Does that fish have fucking landing gear?
>>44012056
Looks like it.
>>44011700
>You really need to dig to understand Numenera's attempts at narrativism sometimes.
Do you think it works attempts work then? Or just gets it the way of play?
>>44011097
It's a bland mix of fantasy and sci-fi without any glaring weak points, but without cool "I MUST PLAY THIS" shit.
>>44011097
/tg/ is just a bunch of power gamers that only want to min/max there way thru a session so they can get back to diablo.
>>44011097
>Every day until you hate it.
>>44011097
looks nice, I like the setting full of weird shit, tough having tons of weird shit without any explanation can get you tired in the table.
the way to build characters sounds nice, the die system I find unnecessary, they made a nice way to understand difficulty, and then randomnly multiply by 3 because muh d20
>>44011097
I told you already, I think the videogame is gonna be great
>>44012792
>I find unnecessary, they made a nice way to understand difficulty, and then randomnly multiply by 3 because muh d20
Yeah i just can't see an point with the die system.
This video on you tube explains the the different between the two and way their author thinks it's an improvement but the end result is still exactly the same. Roll a d20, add modifiers and compare to target number
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJnNGBFP_9s
>>44011097
>So what does /tg/ think to Numenera?
It's got issues. Mechanically it's sort of ok, if very bland. The core mechanics are basic, but still needlessly complex, and it tries to varying degrees of success to lift from other rule light narrative games with varying degrees of success. It's got class balance issues even though it only has 3 classes.
As for the setting? It sounds cool, but be prepared for a load of 'guess what the DM is thinking' for items, monsters and locations with minimal rules to support you as a player from mechanically discovering things as opposed to the narratively. If that's your thing you'll probably like it, but I find it to be damned annoying and promote asshole DMs.
A lot of the color art is nice, and the layout is decent.
>>44011167
Because he does. Same wording. Same picture. Same posts to open. Later he goes berserk when people call out cook for being a turbocunt and that the setting is dull.
>>44013689
It has 2 classes. One of the 3 classes is just a 50/50 blend of the abilities of the other 2.
Once again there is no reason to be a beatstick in his game, and the system says nothing verbalizing this to the reader directly. There's a page in the book that has this retarded shit so blatant that I almost thought the assface was self-parodying. One of the dumb background phrases that you can take when you make your dude is work god damn miracles, and it's printed on the same page as another one that's "I WIELD *TWO* SWORDS WOWWW!"
Cook remains totally oblivious to the same problems he's been putting in his systems for over a decade.
Also the setting is retarded. It's just a bunch of contextless gibberish words and pointless exotic features slathered over a generic anachronism stew.
Despite all this, the video game will probably be great. But there is no reason to play a game with this system, nor in this setting.
>>44013689
>>44014332
Hmm.. Okay. I want to congratulate him for trying something at least slightly different but this sounds doesn't it has much to offer me.
Sounds to me like Monte just had an idea for a setting and then slap together a basic system to go with it.
>>44014834
Despite all that, the game works.
>>44014332
>It's just a bunch of contextless
This response tells me you haven't read any of the fiction this setting is riffing on. Lack of context on two sides of the same hill is a feature, not a bug.
Can it run a setting with magic and technology? I wanted to run a campaign set in one.
>>44011125
"Hey at Lucca Comics it won the award for the best rpg of the year"
>>44014834
Numenera is some told onte Cook about narrative games and he tried to design one without having actually seen one.
>>44017078
>>44017099
>Numenera is some told onte Cook about narrative games and he tried to design one without having actually seen one.
You know what that honestly wouldn't surprise me at all.
A lot of the game mechanics look and sound like they are 'narrative' design choices but still end up playing pretty much in the same way as a traditional D20 Game system. Admittedly in a more around about manner.
Of course I haven't played it but that's the impression I get.
The base mechanics seem fine if a little odd compared to most other systems.
The whole "adjective noun that verbs" looks cool at first but then there's a fuckton of D&D style lists of shit each class can do that destroys the simplicity of the original concept.
It feels like it got stuck halfway between a rule light system and D&D.
That all said I kind of like it. I'd like to run an Endless Legend game that segues into Endless Space using it.
>>44017822
>It feels like it got stuck halfway between a rule light system and D&D.
This is my big issue with it. It's like Cook looked at a rules light game and went "Hmm, needs more D&Dfinder" then made something that doesn't really appeal to either side very well.
>>44016964
>Can it run a setting with magic and technology? I wanted to run a campaign set in one.
Not really, no. It's technology is all magic items.
>>44017859
If I tried to "fix" (make it more like I think it should be) Cypher I would start by removing descriptor lists.
- Pick an adjective (basically anything).
- Anytime you do something the adjective can apply to you gain an advantage.
- Anytime you do something opposed you are at a disadvantage.
- Add +2 to the appropriate pool.
Not sure how to fix classes and foci though.
>>44011097
It tries really hard not to offend so race and sex are meaningless.
>>44018019
The Nibovian wife offended the fuck out of the people at RPGnet. Was pretty funny.
>>44011097
What do you think of Numenera, OP?
>>44018034
I actually liked that one.
>>44017897
Now you're playing Fate with an extra stress track and the ability to spend stress for extra shifts of success.
>>44017577
I have played it, I agree.
It's really not a bad game, it's just so in the middle of the road of gamist and narrativist it's unsatisfying for anyone who wants one or the other.
>>44018019
It's DnD the space fantasy. The only way it could be problematic was if it went out of it's way to give women a -4 penalty to strength
>>44011097
I find it bizzare that Monte Cook saw fit to make all difficulty levels divisible by a factor of 3.
My biggest annoyance with the system is how the game is supposed to be about discovery but the mechanics seem to be focused on combat.
Particularly the foci
>>44017860
>>44016964
If you want gun porn, Cypher isn't going to have the right granularity for you.
You can certainly model a tech+magic setting however. Remember. It's all just dice in the end.
>>44019781
Needing to be able to fight in distinctive ways is not the same as being focussed on combat.
There was also the design decision to be able to model all of the core and many add-on D&D classes as Type+Focus combinations.
Character Options book helps, but approaching the game from a Narrativist POV helps more; the Type, Descriptor, and Focus build a personality who also happens to have rules.
>>44014332
If you're trying to say that Nanos (the NOT!magic class) are better than glaives (beatsticks) you're just flat wrong.
It is completely possible to make a glaive that cannot be harmed by physical attacks unless the GM starts throwing stuff at you that a nano can't hit.
Nanos are more versatile with their powers, sure, but most (certainly not all) of the physical based stuff is mechanically stronger. Also nothing stops you from making a Glaive that works god damn miracles except you wanting to wield two swords. Hell, wields two swords isn't even that bad if you've got a GM who doesn't have his head up his ass and helps you get two good swords.
"Fights with a bow" is equivalent to "Controls gravity"
Can someone tell me Numenera vs FATE?
I know Numenera has GM Intrusions and that FATE has similar (except that anyone can play them?), but I find it difficult to imagine how FATE is played.
I've skimmed the rulebook for FATE a few times, but DnD is too entrenched in my brain to even imagine how one might play FATE
>>44018034
Oh, please elaborate.
>>44023335
The N wifely was basically just a space Succubus. It existed to seduce men, get knocked up and have the kid kill the dad for reason. People didn't like it.
>>44023335
Read it yourself:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?697888-Numenera-W-T-F-Monte!
Responses range from "full tumblerina" to "yeah bro, I'm PC" to "not this shit again."
>>44021072
Can't Nanos literally move mountains, fly, and control the weather at later levels? That seems a hell of a lot better than being a beatstick, especially in a game that advertises itself as being not centered around combat.
>>44027226
No, yes, sort of
Anything that a nano had that would allow him to move a mountain (an artefact) a glaive could have too.
The powers that let a nano fly could easily be given to a glaive (or purchased by one) in the form of an artefact.
Controlling the weather (or gravity, time, light, fire and several other things) come in the form of your focus, which is a different part of character creation and all foci are available to each job (Nano, Glaive, Jack).
>>44023335
>http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?697888-Numenera-W-T-F-Monte!
57 pages. Actually I remember it being more full on with the whiningăit's fairly restrained for RPGnet.
Picked up the Cypher rulebook and noticed something odd about the classes. They all shitloads more powers. 4 at first level (though it often seems like one of the default free abilities has been turned into a optional ability leaving 3 abilities) and 1-3 powers per tier depending on class.
Was a lack of powers a big problem in Numenera and The Strange?
>>44027226
Also, just because the game isn't centered around combat doesn't mean there isn't a lot of it.
Regardless of what your character does and is "all about" at his core he is a treasure hunter and/or explorer. As such the characters gain XP by treasure hunting and exploring. That doesn't mean that there isn't one or two encounters per session, its simply that you don't XP for being a murderhobo.
Just like DnD isn't a lockpicking and trap finding simulator but you still (usually) need at least one player to be a lockpicker/trap-finder, in Numenera you need at least one (and usually two) combat focused characters to keep everyone alive.
Each job has a generalized job that they do better than the other two:
Glaives solve combat-related problems.
Jacks solve problems involving skills
Nanos solve problems involving "magic."
>>44027414
Nano's get all three abilities as class features. Do artifacts replicate class features then? Because a quick skim through the corebook tells me that they're separate items.
>>44027656
It just seems to me like Nanos are straight better than the other classes. They get a lot of powerful utility abilities and have the most interaction with the "magic" thingies which the game revolves around. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to play the other classes, especially with the foci system.
>>44023129
>Numenera vs FATE
In addition to playing your character and the GM playing the world that responds to your player's actions, you and the GM OOC determine what your character's actions mean for the story.
You use Fate Points to suggest or turn down story suggestions. You also use them for re-rolls or +2 when you rather want something to happen, but agree that there's opposition or difficulty.
Numenera has all the mechanics of Fate Points but spread out into GM Intrusions (compels), pools (invokes) and spending XP (invokes again). Edge is like Boosts, or Free Invokes, except instead of coming and going all the time as in Fate they are static and tied into your character build.
The fact that "character build" is as important as it is in Numenera is a big hint to its strong wargamey, dungeon crawly roots. Another is the emphasis on "go out into the GM's world and explore" instead of "resolve your character's conflicts".
Its funny how /tg/ prevalently shits on narrativist systems but also hates overuse of GM fiat. Narrativist systems all have central mechanism for limiting fiat and giving players fiat powers of their own.
>>44027927
Artefacts can replace character abilities.
A character can "buy" an artifact with an effect within reason with a combination of XP and currency.
1. Hover is slow movement. Great for closing gaps to get somewhere to secure a rope for the rest of the party of for staying out of harm's way. No so great in combat.
2 Move Mountains doesn't let you literally move mountains, it lets you push 10 tons up to 50 feet. 10 tons is a lot, and would be a great way to seal an exit or solve a puzzle. I guess "Move an Amount of Stuff That Fits Into a Dump Truck" didn't have the same ring to it as Move Mountains.
3 My bad on Control Weather. But losing your action to deal 6 damage...it's kind of fucking nothing. Other than being cool.
Two of those three abilities are T6 abilities. at T6 a glaive has specialization in his chosen method of attacking (+6 to hit) and can choose from Finishing Blow (+6 damage on prone/stunned target, huge because it stacks with other +damage and is always on), Slayer (make two attacks on creatures level 5 and lower, if both hit creature dies outright), Spin attack (attack 5 targets in your reach, +attack and +damage apply to all targets as if it were one attack), or Weapon and Body (Make an unarmed attack after making another attack of any kind as part of the same action).
Sure these aren't as flashy as controlling the weather and they certainly aren't viable but they do truckloads more damage than the stuff a nano can do innately.
>>44028707
>certainly aren't viable
pah, I meant "certainly aren't as visual"
>>44028164
Are there any good example of people playing FATE?
I've seen some snippets of players doing out of combat stuff (it was a Bladerunner example), but I'd like to see it. I've attempted to watch some YouTube/Twitch, but what I've seen on Twitch is a lot of "umm" and "uhh"s, and what I've seen on YouTube is basically nothing
>>44029210
Also are there any good Numenera play examples?
>>44029309
I'm the anon asking for FATE exmaples
I fucking hate itmeJP and 90% of the rotating RollPlay cast, but RollPlay Numenera has occasional moments of brilliance where you really get to see what the setting and system are supposed to be all about
>>44029600
Cheers. I saw that one, maybe I'll give it another go.
>>44012682
Looks like we found a butthurt dwfag.
>>44021072
1. I'm not the one who's claiming the class that renders the other one totally redundant through reality warping versatility is "balanced." You probably play evocation spells in 3.x because you don't understand anything about encounter-ending powers that avoid fighting entirely.
2. I wasn't saying anything about the fighter class. I was commenting how the guy clearly just cannot see obvious balance issues that are RIGHT THERE in his face. Magical reality warping is EQUALLY POWERFUL in this guy's mind to WIELDING TWO SWORDS. He's an idiot.
>>44031623
Numenera doesn't have anything that even begins to approach DnD levels of caster bullshit. Sure Nanos get some pretty crazy reality warping stuff but almost everything that's really crazy is T5 and T6, and by that time Glaives are so good at killing shit (in addition to having their own crazy reality warping crap through artefacts and their foci if they so choose) that it's not nearly as big an issue as you're attempting to make it out to be. Nanos cannot do everything the way you imply.
Is everything perfectly balanced? No, it isn't. But it's also much more closely balanced than what you claim.
>>44031623
>Magical reality warping is EQUALLY POWERFUL in this guy's mind to WIELDING TWO SWORDS. He's an idiot.
Did you even read what those two foci do? Wields Two Weapons allows you to make half a dozen attacks against separate enemies while being harder to hit and makes your foes easier to hit. Works miracles lets you make a skill check (which might fail) to heal damage, cure disease, get healed by touching you, get an action for your action, redo an action, and restore health to max. None of Works Miracles is that great. It lets you give your party a few free actions and a little extra gas for abilities. Wields Two Weapons becomes almost unparalleled at killing mooks.
>>44011097
It's the best way to play a game set in a prog rock album cover.
>>44011587
The nat. 1 crit. Fail is supposed to be uses for more then just saying 'you really suck at that thing.' Its a way for the DM to directly add extra bullshit . Whatever he feels is appropriate. Which can mean your bow string snaps... Or more enemies show up, or you have a strange vision that interrupts your shot, etc.
>>44011097
>So what does /tg/ think to Numenera?
A simpler levelup mechanic or trees and you'd have homebrew central
>>44032696
>Have you seen how much of a beatstick this guy can be in a game that's not about combat? Surely that's balanced with being able to control weather
You are not exactly doing a great job with selling people on the game.
>>44036132
In my game, I actually had a much harder time making the adventuring day challenging when the party had a Miracle Worker (Who was a glaive, actually.) Because,a s pointed out, the game's focus isn't entirely combat. The Miracle Worker helped them get through the day without nearing that low-resource breaking point.
If I focused on combat encounters more that wouldn't really be the case, but that's not what I prefer to do.
