Are alignments decided by consequences or intent?
Would someone with ill intentions who unwittingly ushers in an age of peace and prosperity be considered a good person?
Are alignments a tally of reputation or some kind of cosmic track of karma?
Depends on the setting.
>>43985977
I'd go with intent. It's about a characters core beliefs and motivations. Public opinion is just opinion. Just because no one knows you burnt down that orphan doesn't mean you're not evil.
I'd go with intent.
A very evil person might have wanted to do a very bad thing but can mess up so badly that he actually saves millions of lives from a bigger imminent threat. Like wise, actions of a saintly, but a very rigid person, in his zealous quest to destroy true evil could decimate the whole world. This should all be a part of a great story.
As alignments go, about which we don't talk about too much for a reason, I surmise that lawful/chaotic should reflect one's attitude towards organized society, while good/evil should gauge one's empathy with pure evil being compared to a dedicated sadist.
So if you go and rescue a starving homeless guy on the street...Congratulations! You preformed a good deed! You can continue on, blissfully unaware and in line with your character preforming many other good deeds, never learning that in fact you saved a dangerous murderer who would, in the following days kill thousands of innocent civilians.
There is no divine alignment Geiger meter that would kick in a few days later, when the massacre occurred beeping "DANGER! YOUR ALIGNMENT IS SHIFTING TOWARDS CHAOTIC/EVIL", and you screaming: "Why!? All the deeds I've done are good! What did I do wrong?"
Although the spell "Detect Evil" mechanically only tests alignment, it, in actuality, attempts to find evil intent.
it's always been consequences
the Ends never justify the Means in DND alignment
>>43986655
This is the only way alignments actually work.
"Intent" just means... everyone except for fucking cartoon villains and the mentally deranged would read as Good, rendering the whole thing kind of moot.
>>43986694
>>43986655
Consequences doesn't work at all. Failing at trying to save the virgin from being sacrifed doesn't make you evil.
Intent works fine. Lots of people genuinely do have bad intentions at times.
>>43985977
neither, alignments are sort of a mbti type test of a person's internal temperament.
the character's actions are a result of that temperament, not the other way around.
the fun part of alignment is figuring out what that temperament is.
>>43986179
Is it bad that I consider burning down a single orphan worse than burning down an orphanage?
>>43989904
Not really, burning the orphanage doesn't necessarily take lives. Assuming it isn't done at night the likelyhood of everyone surviving is high.
>>43989904
Yes, but there ius a reasone why that happens. Humans have more empathy for individuals, and are'nt very good at handling large numbers
>>43987966
well the gods are real and bureaucratic jackasses in a lot of D&D settings so a consequence based system might actually work in its own little fucked up way
if you don't save at least 1 person a week you don't get to go to heaven, get to it we've got to spread goodness everywhere
What alignment would be a healer who went around healing people and saving because he believes life is suffering and torture and he gets off on the idea of people long lives filled with disappointment?
>>43987966
Intent vs. Consequences is kinda wrong in that sense because it's neither, it's the actions you take that determine your alignment, the intent and consequences of your actions factor into it, but not that much.
>>43991621
Neutral.
He serves himself without causing real harm to others.
>>43991621
no matter his fucked up justification for doing what he does he'd probably be neutral good for preventing people from dying.. Could tip the other way if you have him essentially torturing people like casting regenerate on a burning man or constantly cure woundsing a man being stabbed but not stopping the man from stabbing him.
The way I run it, is that the player writing an alignment down is a statement of intent. The universe tracks their 'real' alignment in secret. When they die, that determines what happens to their soul. In addition, powerful creatures will take notice. The LG cleric, that has been drifting towards neutral evil? Asmodeus would LOVE to get his hooks into him, if only to fuck with his god.
The same cleric keeps his powers, because gods don't micromanage their clerics. He was Chosen for some reason.
If the cleric atones, or changes his philosophy (alignment change) then they might spend some time with a penalty, because they're focusing on changing their paradigm.
The cleric going full LE might reduce his value to Asmodeus.
So it's a faction/divine reputation, a reminder of how your character wants to live their life, and a engine for story hooks.
>>43993483
The jump from Lawful Good to Lawful evil is less of a shift than from lawful good to neutral evil honestly.
Also isn't Asmodeus neutral evil himself.
>>43993679
*lawful
>>43985977
It should be intent, but practical it is consequence, since the gm is no mind reader who can justify every step the player makes.
>>43986655
>>43986694
According to your logic this would mean a Paladin can kill someone who happens to be evil, despite said Paladin didn't know and he just wanted his money.
>>43988217
This.
People think alignments are set. Perhaps they were meant to be. But even official D&D sources have trouble defining the difference.
In one Law Vs Chaos; is following established rules versus breaking known rules
In another Law Vs Chaos; is Groups needs vs individual needs, and written law be damned.
In one; Good is more pure when saving the life of a single loved one. Specifically stating how pure love is the great of all
In another; Good is more pure when sacrificing a single person for the greater good. Specifically stating that putting one above others is selfish and evil.
All real alignment examples from Core D&D books.
In the end alignment is what your group makes it, because even the official sources are fucked. So just have fun with it.
