How do you divy up your spells into various schools or disciplines or circles?
I ask because I'm making my own system and DnD's spell schools are pretty close to what I would want, but I'd like to get other opinions on it.
Also elemental magics a shit.
Make it completely arbitrary and needlessly complex.
Elder Scrolls has a nice system going if you ignore the fact that Illusion is basically mind control instead of actual illusions. Also wards being part of Restoration (instead of Alteration) is also kinda retarded...
Other than that, it generally makes alot more sense than the arbitrary DnD/Pathfinder spell schools that can't even follow their own logic (Abjuration are protective spells, but Protect from Elements and all the good protective spells are under Transmutation... yeah, Ok.)
>>43981679
Each school/discipline/sphere/circle of magic must have all their spells tied together by a common thread or theme.
That's it.
>>43981724
To be fair, I actually think your example is poor in some ways.
You can shit on DnD for a lot of stuff but it makes sense; Abjuration blocks or cancels things but Transmutational spells to turn your skin rock hard is still trasnmutation.
Elder scrolls is a better example of what you are talking about; its more about the end result instead of a categorization of effects like DnD's schools are.
Elemental: Turns magical energy into simple elements, or uses magical energy and infuse those elements and manipulate them. Throw fireballs, attack with water whips, that sort of thing.
Fleshweaving: Healing magic and shapeshifting magic. Generally alters living things by subtly "guiding" and stimulating both flesh and spirit/soul to grow to the desired result. Generally a slow process, as conservation of matter is still a thing. It can close a wound, but replacing lost blood or flesh still requires the subject to eat, for example.
-Necormancy is a perversion of this school, and generally involves forcibly overpowering the body or spirit of a living (or recently deceased) creature.
Transmutation: Similar to what it is in DnD, however it only works on non-living things (see Fleshweaving for living things). Living things are generally resistant to being changed and take a different set of skills than non-living matter.
Enchanting: Pretty much the "craft" part of Spellcraft from Pathfinder. Used to create and empower items with magical properties. These effects usually aren't permanent without "maintenance" (as so to keep enchanters useful to a party after they get their gear). Also covers dispelling magical effects and the sorts of energy-manipulation that makes up Pathfinder's Abjuration (or is SUPPOSED to).
Summoning: Pretty self-explanitory. Summoning allows a caster to shield a living creature from another realm and allow them to manifest in this one. If the caster is killed or otherwise incapacitated, they stop shielding their summons and those summons are pulled back to their own realm (usually) by the natural laws of physics in the setting. Summoners must add creatures to their "lists" through forming contracts with them or their masters during certain events/dates/rituals when the barriers between worlds weaken.
Mesmerism: Mind-altering magic. Similar to Pathfinder's Enchantment.
Illusion: Self-explanatory. Creates artificial sights, sounds, smells, ect.
>>43981679
Split it into
Life Magic - Cast on yourself for healing, cast on someone else for necromancy
Mind Magic - Cast on yourself for divination, cast on someone else for mind control etc
Physical Magic - Use to make or change an object, to shoot fire (or stop it)
Make more complicated effects require use of more than one kind of magic (summoning requires physical magic for the body, mind magic for the mind, and life magic for the soul)
>>43982047
Unlike in DnD/Pathfinders, casters generally have to pick ONE school and stick to it. Their body's magical energy starts to adapt over time to the school they've picked, making that school easier, but other schools harder... sort of like how distance runners and weight lifters are both athletes but would have a hard time doing well at eachother's sports, despite both training themselves "physically". One school sounds lame, but it does go a FAR way in fixing the ridiculous overpoweredness of casters and their ability to handle literally ANY situation at a high level.
Casters also have their own set of "attributes" that sort of match Strength/Agility/Fortitude for physical characters.
>Potential: Maximum total amount of Magical Potential. Basically the points you have to spend on spell slots or maintaining a summon. Not needed so much for long-term effects like Enchanting or Transmutation.
>Control: How efficient you are at using magic. Needed for the more "delicate" spells. Not so essential if you just wana blow stuff up with fire... but don't expect to be able to do any fancy tricks beyond that.
>Recovery: How quickly your magical energy recovers... because DnD's system of having to rest after every combat encounter is fucking retarded. This helps to alleviate that, assuming you invest points into it.
>>43982216
I like it, if simply because most games just have spellcasting that is INTELLEGENCE TIMES INTELLEGENCE AND ADD YOUR INTELLEGENCE BONUS, etc.
Never leave home without your ICED TEA. Illusion, Conjuration, Evocation, Divination, Transmutation/Transfiguration (still debated in the magic communities), Enchantment, Abjuration. These are the core schools, and all other disciplines are combinations of these.
>>43983323
>>43982216
What would be really cool is if different types of magic involved different types of intelligence.
>Memory: For memorizing the specific actions of spells
>Solving/logic: If a type of magic involves paradoxes or non-euclidean mathematics or the like.
>Willpower: Ability to exert force unto the mundane world using concentration or reasoning (Used to dispel and abjure)
>>43981679
Go as abstract as possible.
Make a formula to quantify any magical effect, based on size, mass, distance, duration, energy, complexity, etc., so that minimum level, mana cost and casting time can be calculated.
Then force all characters with magic to stick to a theme, no cherry-picking. This way there's no list of premade spells, not even a list of themes, but you have to justify any use of your magic within the way it's defined at character creation.
The in-universe explanation could be that once you learn magic, it changes your very soul, and someone else's magic won't be compatible.The BBEG can use multiple kinds of magic because he has the souls of other wizards inside him.
Fantasy Craft has a neat take on it, dividing them up as much by narrative/thematic archetypes as actual mechanical effects.
The Channeler school draws on powerful forces for direct, dramatic effects. It has the Energy (mostly being fire, light, and sound), Force (your Magic Missile, Wall of Force, Telekinesis, etc.), and Weather (actual weather control, plus most cold and lightning effects in general) disciplines.
The Conjurer school messes with time, space, and matter. It has the Compass (warping time and space, stuff like teleportation and Haste), Creation (conjuration in the conventional sense, though pretty much only for nonliving matter), and Conversion (transmuting nonliving matter) disciplines.
The Enchanter school is kind of loosely focused on "life", but basically it's your school for fairies and cunning-man types. Its disciplines are Charm (manipulating the mind and emotions), Healing, and Nature (summoning and manipulating plants and animals).
The Preserver school revolves around protecting stuff. It consists of Glory (buffs of the "righteous fervor" sort, like Divine Favor), Seals (making long-lasting glyphs with various effects), and Warding (deflecting and preventing harm) disciplines.
The Prophet school is all about the spiritual and otherworldly. It has Blessing (buffs and resurrection), Calling (summoning outsiders), and Foresight (predicting the future).
The Reaper school is your one-stop shop for stereotypical sinister bad guy magic. It has Affliction (curses and suffering), Necromancy (undead stuff), and Shadow (darkness and negative energy).
The Seer school is basically your scholarly book-wizard type stuff. It has the Artifice (discerning and manipulating the inner workings of magical stuff), Divination (learning about the past and present), and Word (using the power of language) disciplines.
The Trickster school is, well, tricky stuff. It has the Illusion, Secrets (which can both cover or reveal truths), and Shapeshifting disciplines.
What if, once spells have been divided up into school, spheres, whatevers; they get some unique flavor? The casting methods change and experts of each field, those who devote themselves to a single school, become different from those of tother schools?
Perhaps Conjuration requires the ritual sacrifice of spell reagents, so thought is needed to determined the best way to destroy the materials quickly and effectively, perhaps with other spells from other Schools.
Transmutation perhaps demands incantations, lyrical or poetical. "Spirits of Earth, I beseech he/Flow as your water kin, move quickly and free" or something far better than the words I quickly shit out. Battle casting is somewhat tricky.
Illusion requires spell circles and mental formulae, what do you place your spell circles on for easy access?
You can fluff this all as different gods/spirits gifts to the mortal races. The dragon god giving destructive powers is almost sorcery, but the forge-elemental demands thought and patience from his casters. The stolen magic of Death must be constrained with circle and ritual or it will rebel against it's captor.
Basically some schools have verbal components, some have somatic, some have reagents, single-use prep and mixes of all the above?
Just spitballing here.
I came up with a system somewhat based on D&D's schools, but a bit shuffled around to spread useful effects somewhat more evenly and fit into conceptual dichotomies:
>The Dichotomy of Change: Essence vs. Substance
The poles of this dichotomy are Enchantment and Transmutation. Enchantment alters the insubstantial metaphysical qualities of something, altering the behaviour and properties of an object or the thoughts and emotions of a person without affecting outward physical form. Conversely, Transmutation alters physical properties of an object (including position in time and space, so teleportation and plane shifting fall here). Transmutation can only affect living creatures in limited ways, like teleportation or turning the body to something inert and nonliving (at substantial harm to the subject's ongoing life processes). Proper shapeshifting requires an entirely different school of magic, specializing in living things.
>The Dichotomy of Life: Body vs. Soul
The schools here are Biomancy and Necromancy. Biomancy manipulates and generates living bodies, healing, shapeshifting, and summoning (actually creating temporary bodies which are animated for a time by a wandering spirit or one specifically persuaded to the task by the summoner; truly summoning a specific existing individual is Transmutation). It can also be used to weaken or corrupt the body, but this is usually more efficiently accomplished indirectly via Necromancy, the manipulation of souls. Necromancy can cause curses and afflictions by tainting or disrupting the link between body and soul (as a properly-attached soul is essential to keep a living body running), and animates corpses by seizing available souls and forcibly cramming them in. Though it can also be used for more tasteful purposes, such as communication with or banishing of spirits.
>>43985669
>The Dichotomy of Reality: Truth vs Falsehood
This dichotomy consists of Divination, which reveals truths otherwise unavailable to the caster at the time, and Illusion, which conceals or distorts the truth.
>The Dichotomy of Substance: Matter vs Force
The two schools in this dichotomy are Conjuration and Evocation, respectively. Conjuration produces physical objects (not living creatures, though constructs and crude elementals can be created this way), while Evocation generates volatile energies and immaterial forces, which can be employed simply for direct blasts of destructive energy as well as to counter harmful forces (creating protective wards or pulses of countermagic) or exert more measured, sustained force to manipulate things telekinetically.
Each schools methods are quite different from one another, so a mage must develop his skills in each school individually. It's possible to train in multiple schools, but the division of focus and effort involved means you won't be able to pull off as advanced magic in either one as you could if you devoted your focus to mastering a single school. Learning both halves of a given dichotomy is harder than learning two schools from different dichotomies, since the halves of each dichotomy are, as the name suggests, opposing. A spell isn't just arranging components and speaking the incantation, but also requires having the proper frame of mind while doing so, and the two halves of a given dichotomy require polar opposite mental states to use. Most people find it easier to do one or the other, and find switching between opposite ends quite challenging.
However, learning multiple schools can be rewarding, as combining schools allows for spells neither could accomplish on its own. For example, D&D's Stoneskin would require both Transmutation and Biomancy to cast under this system: Transmutation to turn soft flesh into hard stone, and Biomancy to do so without compromising the body's ability to function.
>>43985669
Transmutation-as-teleportation is a little bit of a stretch. I'd recommend either coming up with a new dichotomy for that (e.g. time vs. space) or changing the name to something a bit vaguer and broader like transmigration -- although that word might have necromantic implications.
>>43985822
Actually, now that you mention it, I think I might have originally had teleportation under Evocation (muster a big push of energy to briefly distort spacetime or what have you), or maybe a Transmutation/Evocation hybrid. It's been awhile since I've touched this idea, and my notes aren't too detailed, so I was trying to remember where I put teleportation (since it's not quite so obvious under this setup) and Transmutation seemed right given spatial positioning is a property of a physical body.
>>43985915
>spatial positioning is a property of a physical body.
Yeah, but it's not a physical property. "This rock is hard" and "this coin is shiny" are the same general kind of qualitative statement. "This rock is hard" and "that rock is on top of the hill" are not.
Personally, I like to imagine that manipulation of the fabric of space is its own spell school. This would include things like teleportation and planar stuff as well as the creation and maintenance of "bigger on the inside" spaces like bags of holding.
>>43986724
>blood ladseason 2 never ever;_;
>>43981679
>Ctrl+F Ars Magica
>Phrase not found
This is what's wrong with /tg/.
So there's this system called Ars Magica and it's about wizards and it has one of the best magic systems ever. You should check it out.
>>43986724
True. I'm not a fan of making that its own school in my system, since part of the goal is to have each school hold a reasonably broad set of useful effects under its purview. Stuff like teleportation and bags of holding are certainly awesome and useful, but there's only so far you can stretch that concept to produce a sizable and diverse set of applications.
Like I said, probably ought to be Evocation or a Transmutation/Evocation combo, under my dichotomy schools.
>>43981679
It's probably not so applicable for more general fantasy games, but I've been brewing up a set of spell schools for a setting I have in mind that revolves around blood as the power source for all magical/supernatural stuff.
>Quickening
The art of drawing out the power of your blood to enhance your capabilities, becoming stronger, tougher, faster, nimbler, more focused, more perceptive, etc. True masters of the art can even shapeshift somewhat.
>Shaping
The art of controlling your blood physically, to form weapons, armor, objects, and appendages.
>Sublimation
The art of converting your blood's power into magical energies, and directing that energy toward particular ends. The types of energy you can make depend on your temperament. Those with "hot" blood, who lean more toward being passionate and active, can generate fire, lightning, thunder, and light. Those with "cold" blood, who lean more toward being reserved and composed, generate ice, corrosion, force, and shadow. Blood of either temperament can generate wind.
>Transfusion
The art of transferring your blood into an object or person (typically smearing it on so it soaks in, not injecting like in actual medical transfusions) to link it to you. A transfused object can be attuned to you, giving instinctive mastery of its use; it can be imbued with some supernatural power; or you can manipulate it telekinetically. Transfusion to another person lets you heal them (by transferring life force) or imbue them with power. Transfusion can also be used to "tag" objects or people for you to scry on.
>Binding
The art of forming supernaturally-binding oaths or pacts using the blood of each party, or using the blood of another as a conduit to inflict curses or geases on them.
>Hemography
The art of drawing sigils and glyphs in blood to create wards, seals, and complex effects that are difficult or impossible to do directly.
>Rites
Offering blood to a higher (or lower) power in exchange for some boon or service.
I've always been a fan of something not dissimilar to MtA's arcana.
Life: Transmuting, creating, or altering living things falls under this, as does healing.
Death: Basically traditional style necromancy. Summon the dead, create undead, do spooky shadow shit, pretend to be dead, etc.
Mind: A lot of illusions, mind control, creating magic AIs. That sort of thing.
Matter: Any sort of abiological transmutation, creating or shaping mundane or supernatural materials, technomancy, etc.
Force: Energy magic. Fireballs, windstorms, force bolts, etc. Also stuff like destroying the kinetic energy in arrows to stop them cold or boosting the energy of your jump to go higher.
Time: Time travel, haste, see the past/future/etc.
Space: Teleportation, warping dimensions, etc.
Fate: Curses/blessings, prophecies, geases, whatever.
Spirit: Summoning, banishing, and creating all kinds of neat spiritual beings
Prime: Metamagic, counterspelling, mana manipulation, etc.
>>43981679
>How do you divy up your spells into various schools or disciplines or circles?
What the fuel is. My systems run off of a Creativity vs Logic system. If magic is prevalent science is lacking. If science is high magic is low.
By adding rules to the universe magics touch falters and cant work. If it is fundamentally accepted that lead can not ever turn to gold magic cant make it happen. People have to believe it to be possible.
For magic its mostly based on emotions. Those emotions fuel the magic.
