>rule a world by punishing every crime with death and considering it to be fair justice
Really Konrad?
>>43961556
Really, Guilliman.
The way I see it, doing things like that wasn't his way of promoting justice. Rather, he had a problem, and like that he solved it.
he was a nutcase
>>43961556
desu the crime problem on nostramo was something else
>>43961556
>not punishing every crime with death
disgusting
Modern westerners have a society where the "System" is so powerful it can easily treat its criminals like darlings, because they aren't a threat to it.
In less civilized societies, cruelty is used in the justice system, because it is literally the only fucking thing that works.
Its why kings of babylon used to hack people to pieces, and people praised them as god-sent. Because hacking the 'bad guys' to pieces fucking works, and in a primitive land pragmatism is justice.
Well you have to understand the planet in question to truly get it, my worldis a vampire, sent to drain
Secret destroyers, hold you up to the flames
And what do I get, for my pain?
Betrayed desires, and a piece of the game
>>43961880
You don`t have to go back to babylon actually. Just see how (stable) Islamic Countries work. Saudi Arabia is the prime example. Pre-war Syria too.
>>43961556
It's not about justice. It's about sending a message.
>>43961556
He was...
THE LAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
>>43961556
>expecting 40k characters to be smart
That's like expecting 3.5 martials to be competent. The setting is literally designed around your assumption being a non-thing.
>>43961556
But not every crime was punished by death. Konrad was a fairly just and reasonable ruler actually, until he heard of some great injustice and then he went nuts and hunted the guy down himself.
>>43961916
Motherfucker.
>>43961556
Vlad the vlad the impaler punished every crime with impalement and dropped the crime rate something like 800% and is considered a national hero.
>>43961556
Read Heart Of Darkness. Konrad's thought process makes a lot more sense when you read up on the character he was based off.
>>43966187
>reading ancient shit
>>43961612
>like that he solved it.
He slapped a very firm bandaid on the problem, which flew right off the moment the bandaid, himself, was no longer there.
>>43961880
Very much this. In civilised countries, and with civilised mindsets, you are perfectly able to rehabilitate and monitor criminals. In primitive societies, you simply can't reasonably rehabilitate a murderer, because you run the risk of him still being a murderer.
Whether Nostromo was a world where rehabilitation rather than outright execution could work, I don't know.
>>43961556
Curze was unstable as hell, this has been well established. Besides, it worked, didn't it?
>>43966445
>Besides, it worked, didn't it?
not really
>>43966387
Thats like saying stitches dont work because some asshole cut them open and started bleeding.
>>43966166
He's considered a national hero because he kept the Turks/Muslims out of his country.
>>43966445
When you're a primarch nearly anything you do will work because you can just push it so hard, it doesn't make it a good idea
>>43966445
>worked
Just because "it works" to kill anyone who steps an inch out of line doesn't mean it's reasonable to do so.
Besides, it fucked up the moment he was no longer able to enforce his retarded rule.
>>43966476
No, it's like saying instead of sewing the wound shut and treating it, you just wrapped it in 7 layers of bandaid, and was surprised it didn't last forever.
>>43966497
That son of a bitch was biologically immortal. All he had to do was keep it going a few hundred years and it would have worked out fine.
>>43961556
Chen Sheng was an officer serving the Qin Dynasty, famous for their draconian punishments.
He was supposed to lead his army to a rendezvous point, but he got delayed by heavy rains and it became clear he was going to arrive late. The way I always hear the story told is this:
Chen turns to his friend Wu Guang and asks “What’s the penalty for being late?”
“Death,” says Wu.
“And what’s the penalty for rebellion?”
“Death,” says Wu.
“Well then…” says Chen Sheng.
And thus began the famous Dazexiang Uprising, which caused thousands of deaths and helped usher in a period of instability and chaos that resulted in the fall of the Qin Dynasty three years later.
The moral of the story is that if you are maximally mean to innocent people, then eventually bad things will happen to you.
First, because you have no room to punish people any more for actually hurting you.
Second, because people will figure if they’re doomed anyway, they can at least get the consolation of feeling like they’re doing you some damage on their way down.
>>43966527
> All he had to do was keep it going a few hundred years and it would have worked out fine.
What are you talking about? Are you implying that after a generation or two people would magically stop being criminal? Please.
And regardless, he was fixing the symptom, not the disease. Shit like that requires constant vigilance. Sure, it might work well short term, but the Imperium (at that point, at least) wasn't dealing with super short term.
>>43966568
It wouldnt matter if it took ten generations he had the time.
>>43966554
I dont know dude, sounds like china man just didnt go hard enough. Vlad would go out of his way to tempt people to do crime but they didnt because they knew what would happen.
>>43966590
What are you fucking talking about? The moment he left, everything turned to shit. You can't have one primarch jerking off to one single planet forever. They're kind of important. They have shit to do.
And crime is probably as fundamental to humanity as a desire to be social. Crimeless humans would probably not even count as humans, and would be near-xeno.
>>43966616
Its not like he knew he was supposed to be leading armies around when he came up with the plan. Did he even know about the imperium at that point?
>>43966659
But he kept with his philosophy after leaving, and it was demonstrably ineffectual.
Besides, when you're an ultra super genius, turning to execution for stepping an inch out of line is pure laziness.
>>43961556
There was a guy who tried that in Greece once. He died when people wouldn't stop throwing clothes on him in the arena, where he was holding a speech or something.
>>43966476
Except there was no active attempt to truly repair the world. Fulgrim is a good example of what Curze could and should have done to fix his world. Fulgrim landed on a dying mining world where they wanted to kill him when he landed because they couldn't afford to feed another mouth but was saved because he was a fucking adorable baby. Like really fucking adorable.
Since Fulgrim was a primarch he was better than regular people and slowly started making his world more and more efficient, in effect he was a better logistical expert than Guilliman. Eventually Fulgrim began to support the devlopment of arts and sciences until when the Emperor arrived he found a world going through a renaissance that was so peaceful that the only military force it had was the police.
Curze was the worst possible primarch to land on his world with the possible exceptions of Angron and Russ (the former is more bloodthirsty the latter is mentally disabled), it is shown time and time again that blunt violence doesn't solve crime, solving the issues that cause crime such as poverty are much more effective.
>>43966497
>>43966496
Never said it was the "good" or "reasonable" way of handling it, just that it worked (well, right up until Curze fucked off with Emps) because everyone was afraid that giant, crazy not-Batman would visit and nail their dick to a door.
>>43966687
Well shit he was designed to kill motherfuckers all day long not create complex long lasting social reforms. Its like trying to mow a lawn with a hatchet.
>>43966744
Clearly you need piercing violence. Stake related violence.
>>43966773
>Well shit he was designed to kill motherfuckers all day long not create complex long lasting social reforms. Its like trying to mow a lawn with a hatchet.
Completely wrong. The primarchs were designed to be leaders of men. They were not mindless butchers. If big E had needed brainless berserkers, he had have made angron on purpose x20. They were super ultra geniuses for a reason. Curze was just too edgy to be smart.
>>43966995
Yeah, leaders of men in xeno killing. I dont see any primarchs known for their ability to sort out taxes and I see a whole bunch who are good at killing shit.
>>43967060
>I dont see any primarchs known for their ability to sort out taxes
Guilliman says hello.
Also, it's not herp derp me smashy. They're extremely proficient tacticians. The only reason they mostly dealt with war was because that was the most immediate concern. So inclined, they could all (with the possible exception of Angron and Curze, because they were obviously batshit) rule slices of galaxy perfectly well.
>>43966433
Rehabilitation doesn't work in the U.S.
Only place where I know it works is Sweden, Norway, etc. where only the worst offenders are actually sent to prison, which results in a small and easily manageable prison population. Their prisons are a hell of a lot nicer too.
>>43967102
>Rehabilitation doesn't work in the U.S.
I don't know of any place where it's seriously attempted in the USA. If you mean that they are not rehabilitated in the US prisons, then yes, you're right.
Rehabilitation can work quite well, it's just a matter of giving up the concept of vengeance in the justice system, because it's archaic, inefficient, and needless. I'd rather sit next to a person on the bus who was treated kindly in prison, in spite of his crimes, over a person who has become a stone cold psycho because he was treated like an animal and routinely gang raped, with everyone cheering on, because "that's what you get".
>>43966554
That's where you get things like drawing and quartering and corruption of blood. You think the worst we can do is kill you? Guess what, you're wrong.
>>43966433
>Whether Nostromo was a world where rehabilitation rather than outright execution could work, I don't know.
The closest comparative world to Nostramo in 40k is Commoragh. The sentence fit the crimes. Including that time with the fleet and the lances and the kablooey.
>>43966995
>They were not mindless butchers.
Eh, the Emperor's whole plan has a ton of holes in it if you believe that he wanted them to rule humanity
>Make a bunch of general governors
>Give them highly specialized skillsets and predispositions some of which serve no use or actively inhibit my goal of a stable atheistic empire
>Never keep track of their mental stability despite one being a schizophrenic with multi-personality disorder, another having nails in his head that give him headaches unless he is killing, and another has some confusing relationship with his twin brother that nobody else knows about.
If the emperor wanted governors than why the fuck did he make Angron, Alpharius, Lorgar, and Curze?
I personally have the theory that the Emperor planned the heresy and it may have simply spiraled out of control. Think of it like this.
>Humanity was on top during the Dark Age of Technology
>Got content with no real struggles going on
>Humanity fell and was nearly driven to extinction
>Eldar reached a point when they had no real threats
>Became too content
>Created a Chaos God
The emperor was worried would either fall like the Eldar did or fall like they did during the Dark Age of Technology, even if he was there to guide them directly. So he decided to plan ahead by making a conflict so humanity could never become too content. Thus he purposely made primarchs who were predisposed to being unstable and instead of calming them down or putting them down he let them run rampant or purposely pissed them off. Thus guys with issues like Curze, Angron, Lorgar, Alpharius, and Perturabo might eventually turn on the Imperium. By turning on humanity he would give humanity an eternal purpose of fighting them so we wouldn't get lazy and weak.
>>43966445
It's Space-Batman in Space-Gotham. He's trying to do good, but doesn't really change anything. Even with it's super-mega-awesome vigilante who punishes/kills every criminal he can find, the city/planet is still a crime-ridden hellhole, because nothing actually changes, except for some criminals to go to prison and escape/criminals getting killed, while their children get pushed to criminality.
>‘Look around you,’ Curze said. ‘You were born on this world. You grew to adulthood here, just as I did. The Emperor praised me for my rule over this world. Even Fulgrim admired it. A model of compliance. An obedient world, they said. Were my people happy? Did that even matter? I made these people human, despite their feral drives. I made them civilised, despite their baser instincts. I raised them above the level of beasts. That was my responsibility to them, as a superior being. And I fulfilled it.’ Curze looked to the grey spires, rising in every direction, and the frozen smog from the foundries and manufactorums veiling the spire-tops in a haze of pollutant smoke. ‘And see how my people rewarded me. I was gone only a handful of years before everything soured. My own home world poisoned my Legion with recruits who were worthless as soldiers. Rapists. Murderers. Thieves. The scum. The dregs. The detritus.’ Sevatar almost laughed. ‘Sire, you are no different. The Legion is disorderly and vile because it is cast in your image.’ ‘No.’ Curze drenched the single syllable in regret. ‘No, you don’t understand. I’ve never claimed to be perfect, Sevatar. But I became the sinner, the monster, the Night Haunter, so my people would never have to.'
How could Nostramo even sustain human life without any light? Shouldn't it have been just a lifeless chunk of ice?
(I know I know, logic and 40k...)
Konrad-senpai did nothing wrong.
>>43966476
OH I GUESS WE'LL JUST MAKE ONE PRIMARCH FOR EVERY CITY ON EVERY PLANET IN THE IMPERIUM
THAT'LL SOLVE THINGS EFFICIENTLY
>>43966554
is this a real story?
>>43973649
The Night Haunter Dindu Nuffin.
>>43974790
>imaginary, far future cultures should all be based on contemporary mores
tumblr pls
That "executed for jaywalking" shit is exactly what critics mean by "grimderp." Dredd's punishments were satire in 2000AD, but a lot of GW's adult authors seem to think writing like a 12yo in the 21st century is the same as "appealing to the demo." It's not. Creating the edgiest edgelord who ever edged is a gradeschool-tier premise and a juvenile self-indulgence that should have remained a private joke.
Instead, we all now have to live with Colonel Kurtz plagiarisms along with a 21st primarch, a spiritual liege and an initial-carving mary sue as BL's squeeing fangirls vie to outderp each other. This would be fine as a collaborative parody on some fansite, bu- oh, wait.
That's exactly what it is, already.
Never mind.
>>43976790
I will not tolerate this kind of subversive language. Twenty weeks in the iso cubes, scum.
>>43967388
The whole point is that between the choice of "Death" and "Painful Death", most people are going to choose "Fuck this shit, I'm either running away or stabbing you in the dick."
