What's the use case for playing DnD5e instead of games that are pretty much the same but do the same thing better, other than "hurr I wanna play the latest edition of DnD"?
Gridless combat and heroic fantasy? 13th Age already has you covered, is better balanced, and is cheaper for a complete game - and has an SRD.
Gritty fantasy and shitfarming? Shadow of the Demon Lord is now out in physical form as well as PDF, and has all the 'grit' you want, as well as somehow being both less crunchy than 5e, yet more 'tactical'.
"I wanna tell a ~story~ and ~roleplay~ without worrying about crunch" - you can do that in any game, and also, Dungeon World exists and has a free SRD.
Tactical heroic combat - still is yet to be beaten by 4e with the Monster Manual 3 / Monster Vault.
"4e was OK but it was too crunchy" - play Strike, it's all the tactics of 4e with none of the d20 or the modifier stacking. Also features the Dungeon World style "i wanna tell a ~story~" out of combat.
Simple game about dungeon crawling? Go get BECMI DnD, or a retroclone like Darker Dungeons. And those are free.
"It's the only thing my friends play" - offer to run something else for them, and call them babies who never try anything new if they won't even try a one-shot.
Normies and casuals don't understand there are traditional dice RPGs that are not D&D.
>>43943371
I don't blame them. It's pretty much the only RPG referenced on TV, it's one of the only games still sold in stores, I don't blame them.
It's the people who know other RPGs exist, who go on message boards like this one, that I'm asking.
>>43943352
Why are you so upset by what other people enjoy?
>>43943476
Because you can help them find things they enjoy more, of course.
Like if you see someone using a cake recipe, you can tell them "hey, what is it you like about that cake? I've heard much better things about these other recipes that aren't just the first result on google."
>>43943489
But you have to understand that by doing so, you come off as pretentious and off-putting.
It's as if you're the wiser, older mother in law, telling the young housewife that she's doing her family a disservice by feeding her family boxed cake mix. You know damn well that the kids just want cake, it doesn't matter how it really looks or tastes. And you're just doing it to be a bitch to her in the long run. There's nothing she can do to really win your graces. She'll always be a younger, stupid bimbo that's fucking your son.
>>43943489
Well I mean, you can, but it makes you kind of a twat.
>>43943530
That analogy would imply that DnD5e is 'easier' in way than any of the listed games.
(It's also more expensive than any of them)
>>43943563
Okay. Imagine it as a special recipe that has been passed down for a few generations in the daughter-in-laws family.
Then you come along and call it shit, and say that she could be cooking your awesome cake recipe instead. Even though you found out about it on some cake forum, and probably never spend any time baking or even eating cake. You just spend all of your time arguing about it and reading recipe books and have gathered your opinions off Food Network, where you heard Guye Fieri call bunt cake shit, once.
>>43943352
>"It's the only thing my friends play" - offer to run something else for them
I'm sick of being forever DM. And while there's certainly better systems out there, this one is by no means bad.
>>43943583
But DnD5e has only been out two years. Nobody can be seriously invested in it.
When you make a choice to play a game, you make an informed decision. You look online, you read reviews, etc.
but that's beside the point of the OP:
given all the selections above, why would somebody CHOOSE 5e, IF they were already aware of the other options?
>>43943408
But do you blame them?
>>43943618
It's something new, interesting, it may not bring anything new to the table but it's fun to read through.
I've played 2e and up for d&d, Pathfinder, Riddle of steel, Anima beyond fantasy, Mouseguard RPG, 3:16, AFMBE, GURPS 3e & 4e, savage worlds, exodus, WoD, and a couple homebrews, So I've had experience with other RPGs.
5e isn't an awful system and it can be pretty fun for ME. Which at the end of the day is what I care about.
>>43943618
Oh. Yeah. I got kind've caught up in the whole joke analogy, thing.
Uhm. Well, for me, I like 5e because:
>It's easy to teach new players.
>It's easy to write content for.
>It's relatively balanced for a product that runs on a D20 system.
>As a DM that likes to spend time in his workshop, I find 5e really rewarding.
OP mentions a lot of positive things that 5e does, but other games do better. 5e does a lot of things OK, and sometimes that's really all you need. It's not bad.
When you say 5th edition is inherently bad, just because it's the most mainstream role playing game, you are being contrarian. You want to seem like you're smarter and more sophisticated than everyone else. Being pecksniffian about gaming doesn't really help anyone. Educate your group about other games. Let them try other things, or at the very least, point out and share PDFs. But never stop others from enjoying a tabletop game just because you have "More sophisticated" taste in role playing games.
It's probably the best all-rounder fantasy TRPG.
OP had to cite a good dozen of other TRPGs to make a point, 5e is simply decent at everything. Not stunning, not particularly good, but it does everything.
The good analogy for OP's question would be : Why are people buying sedans with large hatchs when they could buy Ferraris ?
>>43943618
>But DnD5e has only been out two years. Nobody can be seriously invested in it.
It only takes like six months to get invested in a system if you've got a group who plays it on the reg.
Relating to the OP, what if I want a system that lets me do any of those "alright-ly" at any given time and don't want to buy a million books just to have any given style of game on-hand? 5e is a simple, inoffensive, whitebread system that's fun to sit down and spend time with friends over.
>>43943696
>>43943718
13th Age does pretty much all the same things as 5e, so it's an equivalent 'whitebread' system.
>>43943352
It's a fairly balanced game with fairly light crunch and lore that I know and appreciate.
Plus my circle has multiple flavors of player, the kind who want to think and optimize and the kind who don't, so having champion fighters and berserkers as options alongside wizards and druids is nice.
>>43943738
>13th Age
Never fucking heard of it. Nor has anyone else for that matter.
Because I want to play a game that's decent on all those areas, albeit sub-optimal. It's called compromise.
You listed several different systems that do "just one thing" better than 5e. I don't want to play a thousand systems at once.
>inb4 >5e >decent
>>43943738
>13th Age does pretty much all the same things as 5e
If only it wasn't a little system nobody heard about except the specialized press and nerds on 4chan and sold nowhere.
>>43943489
Wanting something better comes from the person himself. Trying to push that on them will make you a pushy asshole pusher. You asshole.
>>43943767
nothing besides DnD is sold anywhere. DnD itself is on life support with a skeleton crew. It's not an interesting argument, and OP was asking the question specifically as if you WERE aware of those games.
>>43943746
13th Age is decent to good in the same areas 5e is.
>>43943352
The spells and magic items are the best. Just compare Knock spells if you want to get an idea for what I'm talking about
>>43943791
>nothing besides DnD is sold anywhere. DnD itself is on life support with a skeleton crew. It's not an interesting argument
That's flat-out wrong, even my little LFGS sells about 30 different systems, including ones I've never heard about even on 4chan, and 13rd age isn't one of them.
>>43943825
I've got two or three hobby shops within driving distance, and I know for a fact at least two of them carry 13th age. That said it's by no means "objectively better" than 5e -- the system actually has a mechanic called "your one unique thing" which encourages you to be the only tranny brown elf or the only dorf with a mechanical brain or whatever other special snowflake faggotry you can come up with. OP has a hard on for it an expects nobody to call him out because it's not the popular system everyone loves to hate.
>>43943895
>your one unique thing
Good character-building tool.
>>43943352
Because 'better' is subjective. I enjoy 5e, so I play it.
>>43943352
>"It's the only thing my friends play" - offer to run something else for them, and call them babies who never try anything new if they won't even try a one-shot.
Maybe this is why you have no friends.
>>43943352
Didn't I see a post like this in a GURPS thread?
>>43944061
Maybe, if you want all of your characters to be shit.
>>43943618
Well, OP is full of shit though.
Anyone who would take him seriously would have to be either an idiot or OP, who is a double idiot.
>>43943352
Popularity and brand recognition.
Players wanting to bother with unfamiliar systems are rare, GMs even more so.
>>43943618
>When you make a choice to play a game, you make an informed decision.
That is so not true.
Okay, maybe it is for some people on here, but there are a lot of newcomers who want to "play D&D" and similar uninformed decisions.
Fuck you, I do what I want.
What does it matter to you anyway?
>>43943352
Because I started my RPG experience with 3.5e, so transitioning into it is fairly easy. And I'd rather not have to relearn everything from the ground up to enjoy my TTRPG experience; I'm already having fun, so why should I bother swapping to something else?
>>43943895
13A isn't all that great but the OUT is a useful character building concept.
They do go out of their way to say it doesn't have to be a complete special snowflake thing, just as long as you have a distinctive hook that sets you apart from the rest of the party and society at large.
>>43945263
As a customer of TRPGs you influence the TRPG market.
And by settling for the lazy and mediocre, you encourage the lazy and mediocre, making it harder for the good and innovative to gain traction.
>>43945300
But that's a silly way of building a hook. A character should be interesting as a whole, not because of an arbitrary gimmick.
>>43943352
>"4e was OK but it was too crunchy" - play Strike, it's all the tactics of 4e with none of the d20 or the modifier stacking. Also features the Dungeon World style "i wanna tell a ~story~" out of combat.
Well yeah, but depending on your tastes that might not be a selling point.
And Strike! is great for the combat mechanics and all, but it's extremely bare bones. A lot of people are going to pick something with the fluff baked in that they can just pick up and play as is.
>>43943352
Who the fuck plays half of those systems?
>>43945320
You're not writing a novel. If you can't sum up what's interesting about your character in one sentence then I, as your GM or a fellow player, am not going to be especially interested in them.
>>43945328
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is the root reason; No one fucking plays any of OPs systems. Finding a group for some edition of D&D is piss easy, but I sincerely doubt I could find a group for 13th Age.
>>43945339
You can easily sum up a wholesome character in a sentence. Reducing them down to one aspect for the sake of simplicity is dull.
>>43943352
Because you're a faggot OP.
>>43945339
You are playing in a fucking campaign, though. Other players are going to be dealing with this character on a regular basis for. in many cases, years. Flat-ass characters made by OUT are going to get annoying.
>>43945425
Agreed. A gimmicky character is fine for a one-shot (Hell, its encouraged if you're doing a silly holiday thing) but for a whole campaign you'll just inevitably turn into Scrappy Doo.
>>43945318
If D&D was lazy and mediocre, it wouldn't still be going strong after 40+ years. Besides, if other games were actually good and innovative, they'd have no problem getting traction and being as popular as D&D. I'm not going to support your hipster indie bullshit because it's garbage, plain and simple.
>>43945501
>If D&D was lazy and mediocre, it wouldn't still be going strong after 40+ years.
Couldn't you say the same about like McDonalds or (on a smaller scale) CoD?
>>43945516
Wait a minute, people think CoD is bad? It's kinda the same thing every year, but it's by no means bad.
>>43945516
You could.
If those things weren't dirt cheap and required little to no investment. TTRPG books aren't cheap, especially so with D&D, so its not something that can just be mindlessly consumed.
>>43945546
Stupid hipsters think anything people like is bad, and they'll shout it from the rooftops just so they can get the satisfaction of being a contrarian faggot.
>>43945546
>People think CoD is bad
It's popular, so it's bad. Just go ask /v/.
>>43945546
>>43945598
I think its bad.
But only because FPS games aren't my jam.
>>43945501
Are you somehow not aware of how wildly popular 3.5 was compared to other RPG's despite its massive flaws?
And the toxic effect DnD in general has had where people stick with it and refuse to play better games. Or even try to hack DnD to run every other genre.
>>43945546
CoD is just not great. It's not really BAD I guess, but it really has no business being as popular as it is.
Just like D&D, when you think about it.
>>43945566
I thought the new CoD is actually more expensive than a D&D book. I mean, blackops3 is 60$ on steam and a 5e book is like 25$.
>>43945603
Wouldn't that be less "it's bad" and more "it's not my thing"?
>>43945617
>CoD is just not great.
t. a guy who never played WaW on veteran.
>>43945617
Yeah, but you have to buy multiple books. And then there's the cost of dice, paper, pens, a grid and minatures if you're going that route, maybe some terrain if you're feeling fancy...
>>43945609
And the OP is a guy who is being toxic towards people having a good time with D&D and refusing to play it in order to play something he thinks is a better game. The attitude is not limited to the game.
>>43945647
>Yeah, but you have to buy multiple books
Doesn't CoD have DLC? And you need to upgrade your PC to play it etc.
>>43945621
Well, since "bad" is subjective, technically calling anything bad is jsut saying "Its not my thing".
>>43945609
Every system has flaws, that's inevitable. Most of the "MASSIVE ISSUES" of 3.5 are actually overstated, that's a known fact.
>B-But muh caster supremacy...
Don't play with cunts. The kind of guy who min-maxes in D&D is going to min-max in any system. That's a problem with the people, not the system. Same thing goes for people refusing to play other games and hacking systems to do what they're not supposed to. I could refuse to play anything except EotE and try to hack it to play something other than Star Wars. By your logic, EotE is now a bad wrong shit game.
>>43945368
>>43945425
Alright but you actually don't have to choose between the one sentence summary and the fleshed-out character. 13th Age characters are not just their One Unique Thing - in fact mechanisms like having Backgrounds instead of skills ensures that they have a certain amount of depth before they hit play.
What the OUT does is ensures your character has something distinctive about them right from the outset. It doesn't have to be silly or gimmicky, though of course it can be if that's what you're into, but it's a concrete thing that sets your character apart from their race and class and ensures everyone at the table knows what they're about. That's a really valuable thing to have. The more subtle nuances can come out with time and familiarity.
>>43945647
The point is popularity is only tangentially related to popularity at best a lot of the time. This is especially a problem with things that require a group of people to play.
A LOT of people only play DnD because they are stuck with people who refuse to play anything else.
>>43945659
>Upgrading PC
>Not purchasing a console like a good little goyim
You don't want to be an unpopular hipster, do you?
>>43945546
Didn't they have an iteration where you murder Castro? I think it's in bad taste, though I'm so supremely uninterested in military shooters that I can't say whether it's a bad game of its type.
>>43945566
TTRPGs are pretty damn cheap as a hobby. Maybe not when you're 12, but that's not the average player these days.
>>43945694
Yeah, you try to kill Castro in Black Ops, which doesn't work. But Black Ops is all about 2operator4me spies in the Cold War, so I gave it a pass.
>>43945679
5e has that. There's an entire section in the Players manual that helps you develop a proper backstory.
And the OUT is jsut startign to sound more and more like a Snowflake generator. You don't need to be distinctive; just an interesting character.
>>43945674
>cunts
Trying to make an effective character does not make you a cunt. And the system was deliberately designed with trap options, there is no justification for that.
>>43945734
There's a difference between "effective" and "deliberately and game breakingly cheesy."
>>43945726
>There's an entire section in the Players manual that helps you develop a proper backstory.
Yeah games have had those little questionnaires at the end of the chargen chapter since forever. The OUT works better because it gets right to the point ,and also invites the players to define something about the game world.
like for example, I might say my thing is that I'm the only dwarf in the world with no clan name, because I was stripped of it as part of a ritual that precedes being executed. That tells you something about the dwarf conception of family and honor. of course if it doesn't fit the GM's vision he can reject it.
>>43945734
Anon, you can have an effective Wizard without breaking the game, don't fall for the /tg/ memes.
>And the system was deliberately designed with trap options
I'm sorry, but what?
>>43945756
Where would you put the Bear from driud with a bear animal companion and the core only finesse fighter?
>>43945674
>Don't play with cunts. The kind of guy who min-maxes in D&D is going to min-max in any system. That's a problem with the people, not the system.
MOTHERFUCKER you have no concept how hard you have triggered me.
If min-maxing breaks the game, that's because the game was broken to begin with. You only think otherwise because you have brain damage from years of playing broken games, which have developed cultures that look down on people who try to play effectively in order to cope with their broken rules.
>>43945734
No, it doesn't. Making a god-like character, hogging the spotlight, and ruining everyone else's good time is what makes you a cunt. Taking the Fell Drain feat and applying it to Magic Missile doesn't inherently make you a cunt. Preparing nothing but Fell Drained Magic Missiles, teleporting right into the villain's throne room, and nuking him in the first round of combat before anyone else even has a chance to contribute? That makes you a cunt.
And you act like D&D was the only system to include trap options. Mutants and Masterminds, Call of Cthulhu, fuck even Numenera does that shit, and it came out in 2013.
>>43945773
Not the same guy, but they really did design DnD 3rd edition with trap options. Check out this article from Monte Cook himself.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080221174425/http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mc_los_142
Here's a quote:
>Magic also has a concept of "Timmy cards." These are cards that look cool, but aren't actually that great in the game. The purpose of such cards is to reward people for really mastering the game, and making players feel smart when they've figured out that one card is better than the other. While D&D doesn't exactly do that, it is true that certain game choices are deliberately better than others.
Toughness, for example, has its uses, but in most cases it's not the best choice of feat. If you can use martial weapons, a longsword is better than many other one-handed weapons. And so on -- there are many other, far more intricate examples. (Arguably, this kind of thing has always existed in D&D. Mostly, we just made sure that we didn't design it away -- we wanted to reward mastery of the game.)
>>43945759
You haven't actually read the 5e Players Manual, have you?
Also; why would you want to be the one clanless dwarf? What does that offer you apart from scorn both in game and out?
>>43945774
"Eh" tier. They're not horrificly game-breaking, but definitely cheesy.
>>43945789
Its a Role Playing Game. You're supposed to play a character, not a collection of high integers.
>>43945759
Sounds like they just put a name they could copyright on a concept as old as literature.
>>43945773
>I'm sorry, but what?
Ivory Tower Game Design.
>>43945814
>"Eh" tier. They're not horrificly game-breaking, but definitely cheesy.
There's two options here that both make you sound stupid:
>core only Dex fighter
>definetly cheesy
and
>bear druid
>eh
>>43945833
To be honest, I've never actually experienced either. No one in my group is that mechanically minded, or that big of a douchebag.
>>43945851
Noone in your group likes bears or agile swashbuckler guys?
>>43945878
I'm the only one whose played a swashbuckler. I think they're unsure of how, exactly, to play someone so terribly flambouyant.
As for bears... we've only really had birds picked for animal companions.
>>43945789
>GURPS is broken because you can min-max
>Hero System is broken because you can min-max
>Shadowrun is broken because you can min-max
>7th Sea is broken because you can min-max
Okay buddy.
>>43945814
>You're supposed to play a character, not a collection of high integers.
Yeah and you're also supposed to use your character's integers to overcome the challenges in their way, which should ideally be game-y and challenging. Stop trying to frame the argument like there's some kind of conflict between having a personality and being mechanically effective.
>>43945923
There isn't a conflict in the character and the mechanics. There is, however, a conflict between the game and the player. The game is supposed tobe immersive and challenging; by min-maxing, you are removing both so you can lord it over everyone else.
>>43945916
Those games are broken only if they are broken by minmaxing. Minmaxing is a perfectly legitimate playstyle.
7th Sea is pretty broken that way, to the best of my recollection. GURPS would be, but then it puts the onus on the GM to set the level of acceptable minmaxing for the campaign.
>>43943371
The casual bullshit is even worse for 5E since it has simplified everything to the point where character customization and choice is minimized to the point of triviality.
>>43943657
>Riddle of Steel
This fucker knows what's up
>>43945967
>character customization and choice is minimized to the point of triviality
Oh, so you haven't played 5e. Got it.
>>43945940
>The game is supposed tobe immersive and challenging; by min-maxing
Yes. On this we agree. Now if we're playing 3rd edition D&D and I realise I can lord it over everyone else by minmaxing my wizard, then either it makes the game less challenging because I trivialise the encounters or it becomes less immersive and a lot more boring because I have to deliberately hamstring my character in order to share the spotlight. This is a problem. This is why 3e is a broken game.
Now I can play the exact same character in 4e or 13th Age or Strike! and minmax to my heart's content, secure in the knowledge that I'll get at best a small advantage over the party fighter, who might be as twinked out in their own way. Games where you can minmax freely are MORE immersive and challenging, because you're not forced to act against your interests in character and your natural inclinations as a player.
>>43945967
Well excuse me for not enjoying slaving over sourcebooks trying to puzzle out which obscure feat is best.
>>43945956
Every system does that. It's the GM's job to veto stupid bullshit. I'm saying that breaking a game via min-maxing is a problem with the people, not the system itself.
>>43946010
If your natural inclination as a player is to have every single advantage possible, then you might just be an over-competitive jackass.
>>43946021
Some games are easily broken and some are not. The former are failures as game systems.
it's a problem sure if someone finds an exploit that the GM refuses to correct, but I wouldn't say someone who benefits from something like that is a bad person or player. they're even doing the game a service by finding the flaws.
>>43946010
>Strike!
Please stop shilling Strike.
>>43946038
I'm not a huge char-opper the way some D&D players are but I like trying to make a unique build with some cool tricks. I do play with a couple of people who are focused on building the strongest characters they can but that's never a problem as long as you're up front and sportsmanlike in person.
>>43946064
Hey man, the OP brought it up.
>>43945967
I dislike quite a few of 5e's design choices, but not having to do the RPG equivalent of filling out my fucking tax forms when I level up isn't one of them.
>>43945814
>Also; why would you want to be the one clanless dwarf? What does that offer you apart from scorn both in game and out?
Maybe a story hook and set of enemies for the GM to use? It's a little thing called roleplaying, I wouldn't expect you to understand.
>>43946010
I think what this guy is trying to say is you'll have fun regardless of what system you play as long as you don't invite autists
>>43945292
Seriously, check out Shadow of the Demon Lord, then.
>>43946113
You can roleplay just fine without twisting the world to suit your character.
Besides, if you really want too be the clanless dwarf, why not ask your DM to make it a personal sidequest for you and roleplay the actual fall-from-grace, instead of having your characters defining trait be informed-only?
>>43946137
Nah, I'm good.
>>43946121
It's possible to have fun with bad games, but it makes it harder.
>>43945674
>Most of the "MASSIVE ISSUES" of 3.5 are actually overstated, that's a known fact.
Wow.
>I could refuse to play anything except EotE and try to hack it to play something other than Star Wars.
Yeah, and you would be an asshole.
>>43946164
>You can roleplay just fine without twisting the world to suit your character.
Well if that's sacrilegious to you then make your OUT be that you gave up a dull but stable life of farming to become a wandering sellsword, which nobody from your village had done before and is pretty crazy if you think about it.
Or declare that you have the plans for a perpetual motion machine in your head and you're the most celebrated magesmith in four realms. The permitted degree of snowflakiness is between you and your playgroup.
>>43946164
>Nah, I'm good.
Found the cunt, guys.
>>43946251
Wait, so I'm a cunt for being content with what I have?
>>43946239
I-
Of course that's sacrilegious! That's rule one of character creation!
>>43946313
Is it? I think there's a place for games that invite the players to have a hand in building the world. Obviously less so if you want to play somewhere with a firm and detailed canon like FR or Shadowrun, which can be an asset.
But 13th Age presents a roughly-sketched fantasy setting and invites you to fill in the blanks, which I think is pretty cool too. The GM has enough to do, why not let the other players contribute?
>>43946366
Have you met other players?
>>43946412
I'd think twice about asking /tg/ for their input, certainly.
>>43946274
No, you're a cunt for being an incurious dullard.
>>43943352
>>43946444
Hey, my TTRPG experience ain't broke, so why do I have to fix it?
>>43945546
It's the yearly football game of shooters.
>>43945516
There is a surprising amount of work that goes into every McDonald's food item, all designed to produce a predictable and hyperpalatable taste and texture. It's mediocre by nutritional standards, but it's pretty directed in its design for appeal.
>>43943352
>strike
>>>/somethingawful/
>>43945664
I suppose if "fun" is a buzzword, "bad" is as well. A singular word to summarize without further delving into its components and elaborating on it.
>>43946366
Yeah, that just sounds... kind of messy. Besides, if I'm not GMing then what I'm looking for is to interqact with somebody else's world. Shoe-horning in my own touches just seems disrespectful.
OP's criteria for measuring a game's quality is designed to generate shitposting and edition war crap. The reason is that you can apply that same criteria to every role playing game in existence and get the same result due to individual system specialization. Contrary to popular belief, 5e is not magically exempt from being specialized.
If you take a component of a game that is inferior to that of another game and use that as the basis of holistic superiority, you are simply dodging the fact that the sum effectiveness of a system's individual parts are greater than the whole.
This concept applies to pretty much every man-made system in existence. From governments, to RPGs, to car engines, to bridge foundations.
Every RPG has weak points and strong points, 5e is no different. Using OP's shitposting criteria you could use a particularly strong component of 5e to indicate the "uselessness" of another system with a similar or identical component that is weaker in the other game.
The problem with using this criteria for an RPG's quality is you can take literally any fucking RPG on the planet and downplay each individual aspect that comprises it while comparing each of these aspects with those from another game that specializes in them.
This is without taking into consideration that holistically the effectiveness of the sum of all these parts is greater than their effectiveness in isolation.
It's a shitty way of arguing your point of view, because it vague and interchangeable.
How to actually tell people 5e is shit:
-analyze individual systems and sub-systems within the game and determine their mathematical and practical effectiveness in play
-don't worry, a lot of people who are smarter than you have already done this
-so find their work and use it instead of making shitty threads like this
The autistic toho munchkin from three days ago is better at this than you are OP.
>>43946529
>the sum effectiveness of a system's individual parts are greater than the whole
Excuse me, I meant "sum effectiveness of a system's individual parts is greater than that of their effectiveness in isolation".
Korean sentence order still fucks me up sometimes.
>>43945647
You don't need all of that shit you triple nigger
The 3 core books, some cheap ass dice, pen and paper. You can get it all for a one time fee of $100, maybe less. Then you get to play for years and years assuming you have the right people.
>>43946834
>The 3 core books
You don't really need the monster manual to play.
>>43947185
Fair point. It's even cheaper then. Or you can buy an extra phb because we all know nobody else bothered bringing their own and for some godforsaken reason they need to look at it every 5 minutes
>>43943530
Got any pictures of this young housewife? Sounds hot.
>>43945811
Huh, that's not what a Timmy card is. A Timmy card is something splashy and cool and makes you feel awesome. Timmy just doesn't care if it's good or not, so frequently Timmy cards aren't good in tournaments but can still win you plenty of games at the kitchen table.
>>43947357
Hell, level 9 spells are basically nothing but Timmy toys!
>>43943669
Dude I was with you saying that he seemed like he wanted to be smarter and more sophisticated than everyone until you said pecksniffian.
Really?
>>43945814
Lol I was going to write that he hadn't read the phb. So thanks for drawing ire for me.
>>43946512
Different anon here.
My approach to Game Mastering is that everybody is telling a story together. I have a world that will react a certain way over the long run, and I invite the players to play with the story I want to present. I always give time to the players to share with me their goals, so I can work them into my story; I also give a third of every session to the players running around being stupid off the rails so they feel okay with being stuck back on them later. I then work consequences of their random time into the next session. It's worked well for me.
my favourite person in this thread is the person so traumatised by DnD3.5 and 5e (and hell, I'll include 4e here too for this purpose) that thinks learning a new system is difficult in any way for the majority of games
that's why 3.5 was cancer - people started with it, and then thought every game was just as bullshit
>>43948243
Give him a little leeway, man. He used the word right at least.
>>43945501
What is the most used OS for PCs?
Windows.
What is the most flawed OS for PCs?
Windows.
Why is that?
Marketing.
Microsoft, back in the day, made a well-timed and effective marketing push that put Windows ahead of its competitors.
Linux, OS X, etc. are all vastly superior to Windows except in one single area: convenience.
Microsoft gained two crucial advantages from its marketing. Loads of developers and therefore content, and a giant userbase that is too lazy to switch systems and draws in new users on the basis of "well, everyone uses Windows".
D&D is the Windows of the Tabletop RPG world.
Just like Windows's competitors, other systems are now slowly gaining traction thanks to people who have had enough of Microsoft's/WotC's shit, but it's an uphill battle.
Because its the only thing running at my local game store and like
>>43943371
>>43943408
I had no idea that there were other RPGs people played till I experienced Cyberpunk 2020 at a convention, which was awesome and eye opening
>>43945994
Not that anon, but there is less character customization by far compared to brevious editions. Certainly less than 3e+... and hell, even 2e.
So, in Economics there's something called a network effect. The way to think about it is like this: if there's a town of 2000 people, and you and another person in town have the only two telephones, that phone is basically worthless (because all you've got is a direct line to that other person), but if 100/500/1000/1500/2000 people in town have phones then the value of the connection increases greatly.
What any non-D&D RPG has to deal with is you've got a special kind of phone that doesn't work with other phones. It might actually be a better phone (better buttons, clearer line, whatever) but you're going to have a hell of a hard time trying to run phone lines in your town.
Anyone anywhere in the english-speaking world can walk into basically any FLGS and say "I wanna play D&D" and be reasonably confident of finding like-minded players.
Also, it's really debatable if your "better" phone isn't just a harder to use "elite" phone whose very inaccessibility is its primary selling point.
>>43952243
"less bloat" is not "less customization".
>>43946463
>My 77 pinto ain't broke so why fix it?
>>43945674
Druid.
Natural spell.
You are now better then 50% of the rest of the classes in the corebook, you little shit.