ITT: /tg/-related rage triggers
>So shadowrun is basically DnD, but with guns and magical 80s hacking?
>so monstergirls are furries, right?
>>43935980
>GURPS memes
>>43935980
It... sort of is.
>>43935980
That's completely accurate, and indeed the game's basic premise and purpose.
>>43936070
>>43935980
That and rolling up to 20+ dice several time a single check served yes.
>>43935980
>>43936063
They sort of are.
>>43935980
>So the singularity is just the rapture for atheists?
>It's what my character would do.
>>43936495
You're sort of retarded.
>inb4 lol yiffer hurr durr furfag
I don't even like monstergirls or furries, they creep me out, but even I can tell what's furry and what's not.
>>43936544
I don't see any problem with this.
>>43936063
luckily we have this handy dandy chart
>>43936070
>>43936140
>>43936145
TROLLED
HARD
>>43936558
>>43936568
>Excuses for bad habits
Not evidence. You're a furfag if you like girls crossed with animals.
>>43936535
Religion is nothing compared to how bad for humanity the idea of the singularity is.
Not because it's real, but because people are never going to face hard facts and make the hard choices to keep our species going as long as all that nonsense tempts them.
>>43936563
It becomes a problem when That Guy starts using it as an excuse for why he's acting like such an ass.
>>43936535
In a way its true.
>At one point in the eventual future that we can't quite see or know everything will immediately become 10000% more awesome and there will be no more want or scarcity or disease because our benevolent AI supergenius philosopher kings will solve ever problem ever and then we'll conquer space and meet aliens and it'll be just like star trek
>You should always kill the orc babies. It is both lawful and good.
>>43936600
>Not evidence. You're a furfag if you like girls crossed with animals.
>girls
I'm glad me and the rest of my Half Fae Catboy loving brethren are officially not furries. I wouldn't want to be some sort of degenerate or anything.
>>43936671
Fuck you shit, I want scarcity and disease
>>43936563
It's a phrase that's never used in a positive context. It's a defense when someone asks why another player is doing stupid bullshit.
>Dude, what the fuck? Why'd you just attack the king out of the blue?
>It's what my character would do.
>>43936600
Here's that reply you were fishing for. :^)
>>43936651
And the phrase will be spat right back at him when the party kicks him out or kills him.
>>43936671
It's abrahamic religion repackaged. Same promises, different prophets.
>let's just waste and spend and buy and eat FOREVER LOL! Surely ONE ANECDOTAL CENTURY proves it will last FOREVER!!
It's the ultimate appeal to base evolutionary instinct.
>>43936600
I can't tell what's creepier.
Liking furries or liking furries crossed with underaged girls without noses.
>>43936724
Liking monstergirls because the only reason you think they would like you is because they're hated by society and only you can care for them
Them's some deep seated issues right there. Does japan even bother with a definition of autism, considering how few of their people wouldn't fall under it?
>>43936671
There is nothing more triggering to people than the truth. If you make a person think they're thinking, they'll love you. But if you actually make them think, they'll hate your guts.
>>43936070
>>43936140
Similarities between dnd and shadowrun:
>some races
>magic
t h a t ' s i t
>>43936856
They're also both classic trpgs who focus on a small group of extraordinary people to adventure for coin and experience.
>Gee anon everything in 40k is just a bad ripoff of Starcraft
>>43936911
In a modern world setting? How much does it have to bend over backwards to make that seem plausible? Nations don't have armies or police forces?
>>43936941
Nobody would be trolled by that. Everyone knows the opposite is true.
>>43936948
It's fucking cyberpunk. Everything is private forces.
>>43936985
Ah, handwaving.
Well, that's another similarity with DND then.
>>43936985
That seems needlessly cynical.
>>43937043
It's cyberpunk.100% cynical is perfectly fine level of cynical.
>>43936568
>1: CATastrophe
>2: Golden Sky Stories
>3+: B&.
>>43936948
They do.
You are criminals for hire.
>>43937180
Then that wouldn't last long at all.
>>43937076
Cyberpunk is actually overwhelmingly optimistic about technology. It's completely divorced from reality.
>>43937213
Neither should last an old man, two midgets and a walking twig against a dragon.
That's what the fantasy is about.
>>43937177
GSS would still be at 1.
>>43936642
>>43936671
>bad for humanity.
>great for humanity.
Dudes the whole point of the singularity is that it's either going to lead to the extinction of mankind or the evolution of it.
Nothing's going to stop the basic physics of having to be alive, but by the end of all the transhumanism, we'll either be something different, something dead, or something enslaved.
The second worst scenario to extinction or enslavement by evolved A.I. Is humanity breaks off into different transhumanist species and can't co-exist.
>Beowulf, Cuchulain, Diomedes, Cadmus? who are those? characters from Fate/Stay Night?
>>43937310
Go preach your cult's message elsewhere.
>>43937310
It's bad for humanity because the singularity is as non-existent as god, you moron. But it causes people to feel justified in overspending, overconsuming, and overusing everything until it's gone for good.
Your beliefs are causing the death of the species. Hope you're proud of yourself.
>>43937324
damn son, I felt that one
>>43936985
Not really, nations still hold considerable sway in Shadowrun and national militaries do still exist. Not everything is at the beck and call of the corps, and that's what makes it more interesting imo when national and corporate interests clash every now and then. Like when the AI Deus took over a corporate arcology in Seattle and the UCAS military basically told the megacorp "we're going in, deal with it faggots"
That being said...
>>43936948
It took two global computer crashes, a pandemic that wiped out two billion people, the return of fucking magic, devastating wars, and a bit of historical deviations to facilitate the rise of the megacorps and ensure that they remain at the top of the world's food chain. National militaries and police do still exist, but they're no longer the big players.
That, and suspension of disbelief. It's not a setting that pretends to simulate geopolitics, it's designed specifically to be mercenary-friendly.
>>43937392
You do realize you are always going to be ignorant of more things than you will ever be aware of? There's no reason to fault people for not knowing useless trivia.
>>43937438
>That, and suspension of disbelief. It's not a setting that pretends to simulate geopolitics, it's designed specifically to be mercenary-friendly.
Which is why people say it's like D&D.
>>43937445
Yeah but that's never stopped anyone else on /tg/, caring too much about trivia that doesn't matter is basically all we do.
>>43937520
You're not an individual?
>>43937463
I guess it's a good analogy for folks who don't know a whole lot of RPGs beyond D&D. Change the setting to cyberpunk Earth, adventurers to shadowrunners, and throw in supernatural shit and yeah, I suppose.
Personally I describe Shadowrun to first timers as "cyberpunk meets dragons and elves and other fantasy stuff" and they usually get it.
I think the complaint of the OP was that it doesn't do the setting justice when you say "it's like D&D but with guns", like that whole "Far Cry 3 is like Skyrim but with guns" deal.
>>43936724
I feel like obviously the second one, right? I mean its just the first one but with more creepy things added on.
>>43936696
>It's what my character would do!
>No, it's not. What your character would do is be dead, because lightning smote him from the sky for all his health before he could attack.
>What?
>Divine right has its benefits, bitch.I know this makes me That DM, but I want to do that just once to know I have.
>>43936966
How is this not you being trolled by that, nigga?
>>43937544
No, Fallout 4 is objectively skyrim with guns.
>>43937569
It's not trolling unless the recipient gets angry. I couldn't give a fuck about some commercial contraceptive or who copied Tolkien first.
>Wizard
>>43937681
Just all wizards?
>>43936063
No but they're almost as cancerous.
>"D&D sucks"
>"Okay, recommend me some medieval fantasy tabletop RPGs"
>(everlasting cosmic silence)
>[insert literally any question about systems or game elements]
>hurf durf GURPS
>hurf durf FATE
>>43937976
Pendragon
>>43937445
Except Beowulf is one of the most well-known epics ever written. It's up there with Gilgamesh and The Iliad/Odyssey.
Everyone should at least know the name, especially if you're playing a table-top game based heavily on old western epics and mythos. Even if you aren't you should know about your damn culture.
>>43937976
>>"Okay, recommend me some medieval fantasy tabletop RPGs"
GU-
>>43938030
>>hurf durf GURPS
Damn, you beat me to it.
>>43937976
Fantasy craft
>>43937976
Pathfinder, obviously.
Idiot.
>>43937976
FATAL
>>43938058
>Except Beowulf is one of the most well-known epics ever written. It's up there with Gilgamesh and The Iliad/Odyssey.
By what metric do you define well known? Well known by the majority of humanity? Fat chance. Well known by the majority of a certain country? Fat chance. Well known by literary scholars? Ah there you go.
How many people who know the name gilgamesh could name his best friend? How many people who know Beowulf could identify his group of people?
What can you tell me about Bakaridjan Kone? What can you tell me about Hanuman? What can you tell me about Zoroaster?
>>43937445
These are not useless trivia. They are cultural landmarks that people should know. If the names Beowulf and Diomedes mean nothing to you, it's a problem.
>>43935980
It totally is though.
I love Shadowrun and hate DnD but even I would never pretend it's anything else but dungeoncrawl.
Old man in tavern = Mr Johnson
Dark Lord = Corp boss
Dungeon = Megacorp building
Monsters = Corp Security
Treasure = Payment
It doesn't HAVE to be like that but that's also true for DnD.
>>43938217
Anyone with an interest in fantasy and by extension the mythology our fantasy fiction is based on should know at least a few of those names.
>>43935980
Truth triggers you? Definitely SJW
>>43936696
>TG attempts to murder our contact, who is literally the only reason we're allowed inside a city(massive lockdown for reasons, he pulled some strings to get us in).
>"Why!?"
>"It's what my character would do! I don't need a reason LAWL"
>That Guy spends next hour bitching and crying that, after he missed while attacking our contact, my Wizard Plane Shifted him to the Plane of Fire.
>Insists to the DM it's out of character for my Wizard(who's been previously established to do underhanded acts in his own interests).
>DM shrugs and tells him "It's what his character would do."
>That Guy storms out, complaining the group is shit.
>3 months later, find out That Guy can't find a game because he's pulled similar shit in basically every game he's joined since.
I guess being That Guy in a small town is hard.
>>43938136
>By what metric do you define well known?
Uhhh..... I dunno, is "multi-million dollar movie" a metric?
>>43938136
Nigga I learned that shit in 9th grade.>>43935980
>>43935980
Yeah the correct identification is that it's Blade Runner but with DnD attacthed to it. Or Ghost in the Shell if they're younger
>>43938136
>you can't expect people to know things that are more obscure than Beowulf so you can't say that Beowulf is well known
By that reasoning no one should know anything because we apparently need to have full knowledge of an entire field before we can know the more popular pieces of it.
It's like saying Julius Caesar isn't a common name because the average person doesn't know about Nero.
>>43937324
I met someone who said unironically something similar about Herakles. My Autism-sense almost made me punch him repeatedly.
>>43935980
>So shadowrun is basically DnD, but with guns and magical 80s hacking?
Sorry, you're angry because that's true, or you're angry because people say it out loud?
>>43938477
>Julius Caesar
>Nero
Sorry, I didn't play devil might cry
>>43937976
Dungeon World.
>>43935980
>"Man, I'm sick of 40k, the rules are trash, the prices are insane, and I can't stand GW"
OK cool, I own a pair of armies for several different systems. Want to try some and see which you like? I'll let you use my armies for free whenever you like so you can wait to see if you like the system before committing to it.
>"Nah, I think I'll just wait a while and see if a new ruleset improves on it."
OK, I've got a couple of fan made systems I found that are way easier to grasp and are fairly balanced without you having to spend a penny to try
>"Mmmm... Nah. The new codex/edition/dataslate/FW book will probably fix my army."
Every.
Goddamn.
Time.
>>43937324
...fuck I only know Beowulf
I need to brush up on my mythology apparently.
>>43938621
I think you're gonna like Cuchulain.
>>43938572
please stop posting trash.
>>43936063
>>43938660
What makes 10% acceptable? What makes 50% unacceptable?
>>43936568
>>43938660
>Handy Charts
90% of furry shit is full animal head, hands/feet (paws) and tail, furred bodies, with human proportions.
So... That fits into the 1st or 4th step?
>>43937253
Any examples of a #2 then?
>>43938705
The people who like it.
>>43938718
That is a 3+ on the step chart. Or 50% (Dangerously Furry).
>>43938477
Then they don't know the stories, they just know buzzwords.
>>43937603
If you posted, you're trolled. None of the people who hassled the OP were mad, they were all being smug and amused, and yet, they were utterly trolled. A troll is looking for a response. Anger is is only the most desirable response, not the only one.
>>43935980
>ITT: We rustle each others' Jimmies.
>>43938738
this was a better answer than expected
>>43938495
OP here
the fact that it is what it is doesn't anger me, but people throwing that around as a means of "yeah it's that silly game anon plays lol *demeaning hand gesture in my general direction*" really grinds my gears
>>43938136
False. Beowulf is required reading for United States public high schools. We have to know about it, by law.
>>43939024
Lol bullshit.
>>43938660
>>43939024
I call bullshit
>>43936063
There's no functional difference.
To the normies you're an animal-fucker either way.
>>43939042
>>43939059
Found the Euros.
>>43938660
>>43936568
It's somehow only furry when it's drawn by a western artist, or in a western style.
Otherwise it's weird anime shit, which is just as bad.
>I'm playing a loli
>I'm playing a shota
Massive red flag, too. If either of those two words come out of someone's mouth you know you're in for a bad time.
>>43938136
I measure it like everything is these days.
In olympic swimming pools
>>43937381
It's more non-existent than God. God we can merely not prove to exist, the transhuman rapture is materially impossible, and this can be demonstrated with existing data.
>>43939042
>>43939059
I'm inclined to believe him based on the fact that I went to a shitty school in one of the poorest states in the country and we went over it twice. And read Grendel too.
>>43939507
>God we can merely not prove to exist
>Proving a negative >Especially when that negative is an omnipotent being
>>43939561
I never had to read it. What's your graduation year?
>>43939615
All evidence points to a socially constructed effort to make it unfalsifiable.
>>43939615
Read it again you moron
>>43936063
The way I see it
Monster girls
>face of a human on some feminine looking beast
Furries
>humanoid with a literal animal face
>>43938308
"It's what his character would do."
>>43939561
>read Grendel
Now I know you're bullshitting. A /tg/ meme character with a demon killing knife wouldn't be in the US fucking curriculum.
>>43939617
Not that anon, but 2010 in Texas.
I don't think it's "required by law" reading, but I do think it's on the not-that-long list of books that are to be taught as part of the curriculum. Basically no school HAS to specifically teach Beowulf, but it is on the list of books that schools HAVE to pick from.
>>43939847
That is a DAMMN fine Troll son, papa troll is proud
>>43939885
Same year for me but it was California.
But we didn't read grendel.
>>43939975
I can only ever hope to live up to kirkwho? aspirations, but I'm glad you liked it!
>>43939847
My shitty high school in a working class town had us read Grendel.
>>43937324
>No anon, Diomedes is the one with the Baneblade fetish.
>>43939994
>California
Well there's your problem.
>>43940052
Grendel was pretty good.
>>43939847
Don't joke like that. People are already learning dank memes from textbooks. Don't hasten its process with potential careful what you wish for disasters.
>>43937976
>"D&d sucks"
>"And man, you ever notice how nobody can EVER recommend you something better? Am I right?!"
>100% guaranteed replies
>>43941309
Joke's on you motherfucker, now I have some fun non-D&D options to play
>>43937381
Pfft. At its most basic, the idea of a singularity is very real, and has happened many times. While not every generation has had its own, many have. We are only 21 years past a significant one if you happen to be over 40.
>>43936600
>>43939885
>>43939994
Ah. i graduated a decade before you, so it might not have been a requirement. we read lord of the flies, of mice and men, and the jungle.
>>43936063
>>43936568
I got a better chart.
>>43936856
The standard adventure design is also largely similar. The iconic run is essentially a dungeon crawl.
>>43937976
Riddle of Steel nigga.
>>43941908
>How to spot shit taste
>>43938058
Ain't a pastry, bro.
>>43935980
>>43936070
>So Cyberpunk is like Shadowrun without magic, right?
>>43936642
hard choices? what hard choices? all we have to do to keep the specieas going is fuck eachother now and then
>>43937310
It may not have been envisioned as such or the concept may not have been intended to be interpreted that way, but the fact is that "The Singularity (!)" as its treated by many today is essentially to atheists what the Rapture is to fundamentalists. They can't say when it'll happen and there's no evidence that it will, but they KNOW that it'll happen and IT'LL HAPPEN SOON, MY BROTHERS, AND WHEN IT HAPPENS, OH LORD WHEN IT HAPPENS, than through no effort of their own besides the fact that THEY BELIEVED, OH THEY BELIEVED they shall be rewarded and the unbelievers shall be punished! They're therefore completely justified in doing nothing to actually better themselves as people or the world around them, which to lazy assholes is one hell of an attractive idea.
>>43936811
because actually thinking requires effort and not just the instant satisfaction of fake effort, it feels on a gut level like a lesser deal, all while forcing people to do painful things like evaluate their opinions of the things they think are right and wrong, creating an ugly sense of uncertainty, nobody wants to be uncertain of anything
>>43942261
They also treat it like a single, magical event that'll happen instantly and immediately deliver them all immortal godlike bodies and virtual sex, rather than a decades long process which is barely noticeable and may quite possibly have already started a fair while ago.
>>43942333
reminds me of how as a kid I thought the new millennium wouldmake the world magically change into THE FUTURE with robots and jet packs the moment the clock hit midnight on New Years Eve
>>43942333
Started? There's some evidence it might be already ending. Imagine the look on Kurzweil's face when the rate of technological progression settles back down and we've gotten no closer to magic AI gods.
>>43942389
what if it turns out that True AI on par with (let alone greater then) human intelligence is actually impossible and we are stuck with dumb dumb drones forever?
>>43942403
The greatest spergout of our times.
>>43936063
>monster girls
>not girl monsters
I don't know guy, maybe you tell me if you are the one who is fucked up and with the shit taste
>>43942403
well that would just be depressing, the universe would feel smaller for such a possibility being gone.
>>43939047
I chuckled
>>43938660
>>43939047
>>43939301
>>43941908
Any person with even one drop of furry is considered to be furry. Beware the invisible furriness.
>>43941602
It happened once, with petrochemicals. That's it. That's why the world only looks magical to someone born two lifetimes ago and not to a person from just one lifetime ago.
>>43942256
The world cannot exist with everyone at america's level of energy use. America and all first world nations need to reduce their usage by 90% if we want to be able to have a functioning world powered by renewables alone. We cannot wait even one more day to start. Any delay is just going to make the transition harder.
And again, it has to stop eventually, because thermodynamic limits set a hard ceiling for how much energy we can use on the surface of the earth each year, and we're at least 400 years away from that point, regardless of energy source.
>5e is trying to return to its roots by refocusing on the roleplay and less on the rules
>>43942777
Thermodynamic limits? By the time humanity's problem is "we're using too much energy, the ground is lava!" Our spaceships will be really awesome. Humans won't be Kardashev 1 with civilization still just on Earth.
>>43942936
We've been increasing our power output by 2% a year for quite a long time now. If we continue the growth that we are accustomed to (nothing changes) then in just 400 years, no matter the energy type, we will create more heat that the earth's atmosphere can shed through thermal emission. That alone sets a limit on how "nice" life on earth can ever be, how many people can enjoy the luxuries of modern life, all sorts of shit.
Space isn't an answer, bro. It's good for research and earth-orbiting satellites and all, but it's no solution to our problems. We're in an energy trap, and nothing can really get us out of it other than dramatic reduction in use so that renewables can realistically keep civilization going. You do not want to see how bad the wars will get if we just ignore the problem because science fiction offers false hopes.
>>43942961
then in just 400 years, no matter the energy type, we will create more heat that the earth's atmosphere can shed through thermal emission.
Forgot to add: To the point that the oceans will begin to boil.
>>43938092
Only people who've never played Fantasy Craft recommend it. Spells are so broken, it's actually impressive they made a spell list and casting system more broken than 3.PF.
>>43936568
Move all steps one to the left, add a drawing of a non furry humanoid on the left, and write beastiality over the fox.
>>43943025
Agreed. That game is stupidly complicated and incredibly overdesigned. It holds onto useless sacred cows from 3E D&D while adding tons of pointless and frustrating new mechanics that don't add anything meaningful to the game.
I really wanted to like it as well, but it's a standard fantasy heartbreaker with just a couple extra pointless features stapled on.
>Role-playing? I dunno anon. Just sounds like some weird sexual nerd shit to me.
>>43936680
Well, it is. It just happens to be one of those rare times when what's Lawful and Good happens to coincide with what's convenient and satisfying.
>>43943025
>they made a spell list and casting system more broken than 3.PF
[Citation needed]
I've been happily gming fantasy craft for nearly four years after two of pathfinder, and the difference in bullshit is night and day. Fantasy craft bends over backwards to rein casters in a hell of a lot more but still keeps them enjoyable and effective.
What the fuck are you lot on about?
>>43942961
>>43942777
>Explain at great length why earth is limited by heat radiation
>We shouldn't be trying to escape into space
You're not really making sense here. People are not going to cut their energy usage any time soon. If one day is too long to wait, then the battle is already lost. There will be no reduction in energy usage, not on any meaningful scale. If anything there will be a very significant increase in energy usage as more and more of the world develops.
So reducing energy usage is out of the question. It will not happen. The alternative, therefore, is either genocide, or space.
I'm fine with genocide. Fuck Africa, fuck America, fuck China, fuck South America, fuck the Middle East. Hell, fuck everyone who isn't from Norway. Burn them all. Nothing of value is lost.
But you're not okay with genocide, and the people with the power to do it won't. So either you bet on mankind changing its nature sometime in the next 400 years, or you double down on Elon Musk.
I'm not a gambler, but no man ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the average man. Space it is.
>>43938390
Sadly, no. There's loads of "multi million dollar movies" that are swiftly forgotten by the public.
I have a friend who loves movies. Loves, loves, loves 'em. He just forgets them within a few days of seeing them.
>Friend sees movie.
"Oh yeah, Fury Road was amazing!"
>Animatedly tells us all about it the next day.
"There's this bit with the dirt bike guys throwing molitovs and it's all *fwoom*! And shiny and chrome!"
>A week later a *thing* happens.
"Hey look, there's a steering wheel here in the road."
>one of is makes a pop culture joke based on the movie he just saw + the thing that is going on.
Me: "Someone went to Valhalla all shiny and chrome."
>It goes completely over his head and he has no idea what we're talking about.
"Wut?"
Me: Y'know: "Witness me?"
"I don't get it."
Me: Like in Fury Road?
"Ohhh... Huh. Yeah, I still don't get it."
I have no idea how he functions.
>>43939742
Monster girls
>animal vagoos
Furries
>human vagoos
That's the real difference.
>>43943401
And yet furries have to devise terms like "coinpurse" to describe their smut.
>>43943244
>So reducing energy usage is out of the question. It will not happen. The alternative, therefore, is either genocide, or space.
Space is the least likely of all possible options to save us from this issue. Putting colonies of people onto another planet is more expensive than any country can afford for the foreseeable future. It would likely just hasten our fall, due to the extreme amount of resources such a thing would take, and it would ask for an immense and likely impractical amount of new technologies that would rely on new physics, and we simply haven't got that much time until the oil runs out to the point that society starts to become even more conservative with how they spend their resources individually.
We can still maybe have space down the road at some point, but only for research and satellite purposes. I'll believe humanity is ready to colonize space once we're done colonizing the deserts and the deep sea. Maybe then we'll have the tech, but only if we keep our eye on the ball and not fuck up our whole civilization with too many black fridays.
I'd rather not see genocide, but i think our evolution has painted us into that corner.
Holy fuck this thread went to hell and back, all this rage is unbelieavble
>>43938390
Just mentioning that film is enough to start a half-hour tirade at my table.
That and Noah.
>>43943548
What's wrong with Noah? It's a great movie, in the fine tradition of midrash.
>>43943279
>I have a friend
This is where I stopped believing your story.
>>43943401
So, not terribly different vaginas then?
As opposed to extremely different faces, which people are heavily dependent on for non-verbal communication leading to many unique characteristics to facilitate said communication?
There's a reason the furry population has so many autists. Because they aren't disturbed by the lack/distortion of facial expressions since they normally don't pick them up.
I mean, most people get uncanny valley issues with niggers and potatoes. How fucked up do you think an actual furry would be?
Meanwhile most mammalian vaginas are quite functionally similar.
TL;DR Lots of real-life examples of people fucking animals, not so much of them making out with them or taking them out to dinner.
>>43943472
We are in no significant danger of exhausting our energy resources in anything resembling the same timeframe as your 400 year apocalypse limit. The automobile industry is literally in the process of jumping the oil ship thanks to God-King Musk's Serbian Space Magic car. Pretty soon the issue of portable energy (which was petroleum's chief advantage) will fade and most of the actual energy for vehicles will come from nuclear or whatever power source proves the least expensive. The market adapts. Ironic that as soon as the carbon emission boogieman is defeated, thermodynamics rears its ugly head in its place.
Our reserves of fissile material are basically untapped. 400 years is a drop in the bucket compared to atomic energy reserves. We will cook ourselves alive loooooong before we even begin to deplete our energy resources.
In other words, there is no reason to presume that rampant growth of energy consumption will cease as a result of resource deprivation. Maybe we'll run out of copper or something, but I doubt it. This whole roasting alive thing sounds a bit harder to pierce, though.
Even so I do not predict any meaningful reduction in growth until doomsday is literally a matter of years away, because that is simply not how the industrialized world works, and any nation that attempted it would lose its competitive edge to those who reject the danger and continue on. Geopolitics is not going to go away no matter how much we want it to.
What is most likely is that an overclass will use its control over the great bulk of the global economy's production power to make good its own escape from the terrestrial microwave (whether that means space or the ocean or something else, who knows) and leave everyone else to either return to the stone age or die. The train will not stop moving, no matter what the Eco-Communists say.
>>43938232
>Megacorp building
Chummer are you real or what, who the fuck does megacorp runs half as often as dungeon runs in DnD
Are you trying to get yourself, everyone you know, and everyone in the same block as you geeked harder than an elf wageslave mage in a Sons of Sauron themed runner bar?
>>43937310
myanimelist.net/anime/16524/Suisei_no_Gargantia
el plagiarismo grande
>>43942810
>5e is gridless
>>43942777
You retarded son? The First World can transition. It's the rising Third World's energy usage that's gonna fuck us. You think China gives a fuck about the environment?
Anytime people ask me (the dm) what they should do. "What's the best way to kill this thing?"
"How do i make this npc trust me?"
>>43943702
>The automobile industry is literally in the process of jumping the oil ship thanks to God-King Musk's Serbian Space Magic car.
That runs primarily on fossil fuels and does so very inefficiently because of transmission losses from power station to charging unit. I have to assume you're trolling.
>Pretty soon the issue of portable energy (which was petroleum's chief advantage) will fade and most of the actual energy for vehicles will come from nuclear or whatever power source proves the least expensive. The market adapts. Ironic that as soon as the carbon emission boogieman is defeated, thermodynamics rears its ugly head in its place.
Any attempt at replacing oil infrastructure with something new is only going to make the current situation worse, because it will take a vast amount of dwindling resources to build them, making the entire situation worse and resulting in an unwinnable game of catch-up.
What politician will run on that platform? You're saying we can get twenty terawatts out of solar? By covering how much of the planet? You're saying we can get twenty terawatts out of nuclear? On what earthly budget? With what world's public support of nuclear power? Don't even talk efficiencies, we can maybe get a factor of two or three out of the relevant technologies before hitting hard thermodynamic limits.
You're talking nonsense. I don't blame you, there's nothing else to fall back on at this point.
>>43943745
The modern world is wholly unsustainable. All good things must come to an end. The choices are either a less lavish existence, or subsistence farming for the foreseeable future.
The choice has already been made, obviously.
>>43943818
How about you subsistence farm, I'll keep working towards mining asteroids?
>>43943793
Let’s say that our nation (or world) uses 100 units of fossil fuel energy one year, and expects to get only 98 units the following year. We need to come up with 2 units of replacement energy within a year’s time to fill the gap. If, for example, the replacement:
>has an EROEI of 10:1
>requires most of the energy investment up front (solar panel or wind turbine manufacture, nuclear plant construction, etc.)
>and will last 40 years,
Then we need an up-front energy investment amounting to 4 year’s worth of the new source’s output energy. Since we require an output of 2 units of energy to fill the gap, we will need 8 units of energy to bring the resource into use.
Of the 100 units of total energy resource in place in year one, only 92 are available for use—looking suddenly like an 8% decline. If we sit on our hands and do not launch a replacement infrastructure, we would have 98 units available for use next year. It’s still a decline, but a 2% decline is more palatable than an effective 8% decline. Since each subsequent year expects a similar fossil fuel decline, the game repeats. Where is the incentive to launch a new infrastructure? This is why I call it a trap. We need to exacerbate the sacrifice for a prolonged period in order to come out on top in the end.
Another aspect of the trap is that we cannot build our way out of the problem. If we tried to outsmart the trap by building an 8-unit replacement in year one, it would require 32 units to produce and only dig a deeper hole.
The essential point is that up-front infrastructure energy costs mean that one step forward results in four steps back, given EROEI around 10:1 and up-front investment for a 40 year lifetime. Nature does not provide an energy financing scheme.
>>43943890
Mining asteroids? For what? Materials that are already abundant on earth, or ones that you have faith will become useful somehow someday?
It's a waste of time and energy.
>>43943890
Have fun living in your dreams.
>>43936711
That doesn't really matter. If a player is stupid enough to use the "It's mwhat my character would do" defence, they're retarded enough to still get legit angry and make a scene at the table when they get rightly shat on.
Source: Experience.
>>43943890
You should realize that you're sounding exactly like someone who would say they're going to laugh at us while we burn in a lake of fire.
>>43943902
>Materials that are already abundant on earth
The term "rare earth metal" flies over your head if you presume them to be abundant.
>>43943992
What magic combination of rare-earth metals will recoup the energy losses of fetching them from the super-high energy requirements of reaching an orbit with an asteroid and bringing it back "somehow"? Fill me in, wise guy.
Because otherwise all you're doing is burning gas to get stuff to make things that won't solve the problem.
>>43936948
If you fucked up enough for the actual dredds to have the time to intervene, you deserve the bullets in tour delta cyberware.
>>43944004
>super-high energy requirements
The highest energy requirement in that would be getting the mining ship to orbit earth in the first place.
Personally
>That one retard who needs to have the fucking core mechanic explained EACH GAME. AND WE'VE PLAYING FOR 1H+ PLUS EACH WEEK END.
IT'S DICE.
+STAT.
VS DICE
+STAT
And one that will trigger /tg/ into a frenzy
>Hey anon, wanna playanima after our degenesis campaign?
>>43944004
Promethium is a vital component to nuclear batteries and rare-earth magnets are necessary components for running many kinds of motors and computers.
All rare earth metals find usage in the most advanced technological fields, so they are all extremely valuable.
America, lifestyle is totally unsustainable. European lifestyle is turning mostly sustainable as the years pass actually.
>>43943793
>You're saying we can get twenty terawatts out of nuclear? On what earthly budget? With what world's public support of nuclear power?
Yes to all.
>>43944015
How much mass do you plan on slowing down to bring into a ballistic trajectory with the earth? How much rocket do you have to take all the way up there to have the fuel and engine to push the mass back? You need a really fucking huge one, one that doesn't exist and would require a shitload of new tech, which is why nasa had to scale their asteroid capture mission down to barely nothing.
We've never gotten anything back from beyond mars, other than one very tiny probe with comet dust. You're saying we should push how many tons at a time to make a meaningful impact on the planet? Name a rare-earth material so we can find a terrestrial extraction rate to beat, and we can actually figure some estimates.
Suffice to say, it's nowhere near as easy as you make it out to be. Who are you citing? Some startup company that needs funding? Oh i hope they're being honest.
Again, for what purpose are we getting these ores? We can't magic up a brand new energy source from them. Even if we did, the costs would only make the energy decline worse and be a losing game.
>>43944050
Show me.
>>43944031
So going to space will make producing nuclear power plants more cheaply than we do today? That's your plan?
>>43944050
No politician is going to do this because no populace would vote for them. China is about the only place because the dumb populace doesn't get a say in important matters.
>singularityfags
>>43943992
We produce more than enough if them for our needs, and can produce even more if needed here on earth.
You see, rule of thumb is, the bigger is element's number on periodic table, less likely you have chance encountering it rimward from earth, where main belt, greeks and trojans fly.
>>43941908
Listen, call me furry if you want but the gals in the sly games are adorable.
>>43939847
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grendel_(novel)
You know, just in case you weren't joking.
>>43944070
>because no populace would vote for them
>tfw 3.5th gen reactors in construction as we speak
>tfw 600MW 4th gen breeders reactor prototypes online in 2019
>tfw the majority of the voters are cool with nuclear power
Suck it solar panel lobbies.
>>43944112
This guy gets it
>>43944112
Oh yeah? So that brings nuclear power from 11% to 13% of total electrical output? Wow, i guess our problems are over.
>>43944174
Here nuclear is about 70% of the total electrical output of the country to begin with.
>>43944112
What's the EROEI? if it's less than 10:1 then it's a net loss to build them during a decline. So we have 40-100 years to make up a 89% power gap.
Color me skeptical. Nothing can fill that gap.
>>43944060
>So going to space will make producing nuclear power plants more cheaply than we do today? That's your plan?
Yes?
Nuclear plants today are ridiculously expensive.
Very sustainable, but the up-front construction costs are absurd.
>>43944100
Actually no, rare earth metals are abundant in a theoretical sense, but in a practical sense they are very hard to mine out or otherwise retrieve.
>>43944091
So being a poor sod in a third world country will still suck? Why should i care, i'm not one.
>>43936941
DENOUTOFDEN!
That's some top quality trolling
>>43944184
But you have to factor in growth, and you have to factor in all the imports that the country depends on that will suddenly vanish. How much of the economy can hold itself up without international trade or oil products? Nuclear power is nice and all, but it's going to be a loooong while before all the shipping and logistics vehicles are electrically powered, just because batteries have shit energy density compared to gasoline.
It's not a cut and dry situation where everything is going to be fine.
>>43944206
>Yes?
>Nuclear plants today are ridiculously expensive.
>Very sustainable, but the up-front construction costs are absurd.
And going to space will cost more than any terrestrial mining effort. You're just making things worse.
>Actually no, rare earth metals are abundant in a theoretical sense, but in a practical sense they are very hard to mine out or otherwise retrieve.
Fundamentally easier than going to space, especially if you're going to need immense amounts of it that would take immense amounts of energy shuttling the fuel up there to bring the rocks down here.
>>43944206
Compared to mining asteroids (where you will be hard-pressed to find them), rare earth metals are ridiclously easy to mine on Earth
>>43944243
>And going to space will cost more than any terrestrial mining effort.
Once.
A space station stays in space, once it's there. Then the only thing that needs supplying is re-entry vessels, presuming the mining is automated.
>Fundamentally easier than going to space
No, I would say it's actually easier to get to space than to pluck out specifically the 23 cesium atoms in my backyard. Theoretical abundance is nothing close to practical abundance.
>>43944206
>Nuclear plants today are ridiculously expensive
A nuclear power plant reimburse itself in about 10 years, according to OCED average energy prices.
>>43944265
Did I say cesium? I meant cerium. Whatever.
>>43944217
>boohoo what about the poor sauds and their oil ?
You let this happen.
This is your fault.
>>43944265
Try reading this again - there are no rare earth metal - rich big asteroids anywhere in our solar system. Just what kind of stationary stations are you talking about?
>>43944273
Considering it takes 5-6 years to construct, that means from initial footing bill to in the black takes 15 years. That's a decently long time for such a large bill; they only earn it back that fast because they produce very generous amounts of energy per unit.
>>43944265
>Once.
A space station stays in space, once it's there. Then the only thing that needs supplying is re-entry vessels, presuming the mining is automated.
So now we have a magic self-sustaining space station towed out to the asteroid belt first? And it uses what, railguns to fire the things back to earth, and they are caught by magic or vaporize in the atmosphere? You're losing me, jaques.
>No, I would say it's actually easier to get to space than to pluck out specifically the 23 cesium atoms in my backyard. Theoretical abundance is nothing close to practical abundance.
What the fuck? You stopped making sense for a moment there. Abundance isn't an issue.
>>43944287
uh more like boo hoo everyone because the entire world depends on oil to keep the base price of all economic goods at a low level.
>>43944298
But the EROEI is about 10 times as big as solar power, and comparable with oil.
>>43944308
You only had to invest in the future.
>>43944298
And its in that period of loss that politicians get re-elected and change shit to please the electorate that is complaining about brown outs.
Which is why the whole idea of fixing this falls on its face, unless we imagine some fantasy scenario with robots controlling the world.
>>43944293
433 Eros is a near earth asteroid predicted to be loaded in precious metals. Perhaps not rare earth metals in particular, but possibly.
>>43944302
>So now we have a magic self-sustaining space station towed out to the asteroid belt first?
Once in orbit, getting anywhere else is trivial.
Mechanization is not magic.
And sustaining things in space is also relatively simple.
Your skepticism rings pretty hollow.
>And it uses what, railguns to fire the things back to earth,
Or shoves them by any other method.. inertia does a lot of work in space.
>and they are caught by magic or vaporize in the atmosphere?
Re-entry vehicles are not magic, again.
>What the fuck? You stopped making sense for a moment there. Abundance isn't an issue.
Yes, it is? Does the term "rare" elude you?
>>43944316
>But the EROEI is about 10 times as big as solar power, and comparable with oil.
The EROEI on oil products is around 100:1. Nuclear is 10:1. I've no idea where you're coming from.
That rate is why the modern world was possible in the first place. If we had to work for our energy this last century, the world would be totally different.
>>43944287
>
>people whining about energy demands
You idiots do realize we'll run out of phosphorus before oil, right?
The reason everything's going to crash down is because we'll lose our ability to enrich fertilizer, and thereby our ability to supply food to the masses.
![db0[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/tfMS6zJ.jpg "db0[1].jpg")
>>43938974
That's wrong m8. If you don't cause anger, you aren't trolling, you're just pretending to be retarded.
>>43944330
>The EROEI on oil products is around 100:1. Nuclear is 10:1. I've no idea where you're coming from.
According to David Eliott, oil and nuclear have a max EROEI of 100:1 both, but according to Cleveland et al. oil has a EROEI of 8 nowadays due to extraction transformation and transport costs, while uranium sits as around 50.
>>43944327
>433 Eros is a near earth asteroid predicted to be loaded in precious metals. Perhaps not rare earth metals in particular, but possibly.
High-energy elliptical orbit i'm guessing? What's the apoapsis? 10 times the distance to the moon? Oh yeah that sounds totally like something humanity has never done, or even come close to doing.
>Once in orbit, getting anywhere else is trivial.
No, it's just takes less energy. There's plenty of places in the solar system with a higher delta v cost than making earth orbit.
>Mechanization is not magic.
The kind you are is. Especially due to the fact that it doesn't exist and won't for quite some time, if ever.
>And sustaining things in space is also relatively simple.
You've gotta be fucking kidding me.
>Your skepticism rings pretty hollow.
Your ignorance is gong.
>Re-entry vehicles are not magic, again.
From that height, they are, especially if it falls the whole way from farther than the moon. Not without some sort of remass onboard to slow it down before it hit the atmosphere, not with a payload massing several tons to have any hope whatsoever of making a profit on the century scale.
>Yes, it is? Does the term "rare" elude you?
Growth has to stop. Thermodynamics sets a limit. We still pull millions of tons of rare-earth shit out of the ground every year. You could never make a profit off doing it in space. The universe just isn't that kind on EROEI.
![8482098[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/EjZFpT7.png "8482098[1].png")
>>43936544
You think that's bad? Imagine playing and being told by the GM I can't do something because it's not something my character would do.
>>43944353
>Al-27 is stable
>P-31 is stable
Phone the fusion company.
>>43944353
That comes from natural gas, which is a petrochemical by-product.
Yeah i meant more at the turn of the century, modern production is about 20:1
The problem with nuclear is that we have to start building them now, and the population of most countries won't stand for it.
As for france and other nuclear powers, you think the refugee problem is bad now? Try being the only place with warm running water in your hemisphere.
>>43944395
second half meant for >>43944369
>>43944395
>the population of most countries won't stand for it.
They don't have to know.
>>43944395
>you think the refugee problem is bad now?
Since they are all in Germany, not really. Incidentally, the pro-nuclear have to thank the germans a lot, since they showed that shutting nuclear plant down meant opening coal plants.
>>43944417
Pretty sure you got bombed by some just recently, if you're the one from france.
>>43944412
Not how politics works. Look at germany. China might have the right idea by not giving their people a say in important shit.
>>43944373
>High-energy elliptical orbit i'm guessing? What's the apoapsis? 10 times the distance to the moon?
0.17867 AU actually.
>No, it's just takes less energy. There's plenty of places in the solar system with a higher delta v cost than making earth orbit.
If you're talking about neptune, sure.
>The kind you are is. Especially due to the fact that it doesn't exist and won't for quite some time, if ever.
Robotic drilling systems? I don't think it's really "quite some time" off. Maybe quite some time before it could run without management, but that oversight could be done from earth.
>You've gotta be fucking kidding me.
What, does the sun not exist in space?
>From that height, they are, especially if it falls the whole way from farther than the moon. Not without some sort of remass onboard to slow it down before it hit the atmosphere, not with a payload massing several tons to have any hope whatsoever of making a profit on the century scale.
Or a travel time of many years. In space, it's just going to keep moving. Without a human on board who's in danger of starving/running out of air, nobody said the vehicle had to travel fast.
>We still pull millions of tons of rare-earth shit out of the ground every year.
Now that's just literally false. We don't have spare reserves of rare earth metals. Intelligent folk already recycle them whenever possible, there are entire business built off going to garbage dumps and finding electronics containing them to recycle for the unintelligent.
>>43944430
>that oversight could be done from earth.
Problem with comms delays.
>>43944441
Again, if the damn things are mechanized, why does it need to be done fast?
>>43938517
YA GOT ME ANON, YA GOT ME.
>>43944429
>Pretty sure you got bombed by some just recently
I know, borders are closed, there has been a few hundreds arrests, thousands home searches, everyone is flying the flag and there is recruitment posters everywhere.
Just saw the military patrol in the street actually.
>>43944446
You still can't react to changes in the local situation quickly.
>>43944483
I guess some mining drones may be lost to space cave ins, but that doesn't seem very catastrophic.
>>43944429
>Pretty sure you got bombed by some just recently
Point in case, they came from Belgium and Germany.
>>43944505
If you've got Von Neumann drones that can put themselves back together/make new ones. Bit hard to get the mechanics out to Ceres.
>>43944430
>0.17867 AU actually.
16 million miles? This rock is 70 times as distant as the moon is from the earth? Fuck, dude. You gotta be kidding.
>If you're talking about neptune, sure.
Or a 40 degree inclination change in earth orbit, or a good trip to the moon's surface, or a lot of things. Most transfers are half to 1/4th what it takes to get to orbit. It's not a huge reduction.
>Robotic drilling systems? I don't think it's really "quite some time" off. Maybe quite some time before it could run without management, but that oversight could be done from earth.
Where does robotic drilling systems get spare parts, crew, water, and other consumables? Is this a whole fucking colony? You're eclipsing the GDP of top nations with just this station. The maintenance would break the economy of those nations. All for something that won't lower the cost of the nuclear power plants by a significant amount.
>What, does the sun not exist in space?
What? What does the sun have to do with space being hell on equipment and people?
>Or a travel time of many years. In space, it's just going to keep moving. Without a human on board who's in danger of starving/running out of air, nobody said the vehicle had to travel fast.
So it's going to take decades for any product to start raining down, and many more decades after that some profit might be made, and many decades after that the nuclear plants will be built? It'll all be too late.
>Now that's just literally false. We don't have spare reserves of rare earth metals. Intelligent folk already recycle them whenever possible, there are entire business built off going to garbage dumps and finding electronics containing them to recycle for the unintelligent.
Find me statistics, not analogies.
>>43944538
>16 million miles? This rock is 70 times as distant as the moon is from the earth? Fuck, dude. You gotta be kidding.
That's less than half the distance to Mars. It's not that amazing of a voyage.
>Or a 40 degree inclination change in earth orbit, or a good trip to the moon's surface, or a lot of things. Most transfers are half to 1/4th what it takes to get to orbit. It's not a huge reduction.
For round trips, carrying people.
>Where does robotic drilling systems get spare parts, crew, water, and other consumables? Is this a whole fucking colony?
Jesus, dude, what part of "mechanized" did you miss? Crew and water remain on earth. Spare parts, presumably, are printed on site out of a reservoir of metal dust. 3D printers ain't magic either.
>What? What does the sun have to do with space being hell on equipment and people?
Solar power suddenly doesn't exist?
>So it's going to take decades for any product to start raining down, and many more decades after that some profit might be made, and many decades after that the nuclear plants will be built? It'll all be too late.
There's no such thing as "too late" for more energy.
>Find me statistics, not analogies.
Alright.
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/rare_earths/
You'll find the consumption rates are neck and neck with production rates.
>>43944538
A bit unrelated, but on average you don't need that much of rare earth in nuclear power plants compared to the energy you're making out of it. The bulk of special materials in the reactor is Zirconium bars. Other than that it's mainly high-performances steels so you need Manganese to stop fissure-inducing corrosion. Rare earth are useful in electronics and solar panels mainly. Most LED, piezoelectric or thermal-active devices are made of rare earth.
>>43944373
So, you gonna dump hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars into space project to drill a rock the size of a mere dozen miles which may or may not contain an something valuable, but you know neither amount nor the actual presense of anything there, and it will take a few dozen billion just to find out.
Bravo, I say.
>>43936584
>trolling
It's called baiting you fucking newfag.
>>43944602
>That's less than half the distance to Mars. It's not that amazing of a voyage.
We've never sent anything there massing more than ten tons, and we've never gotten anything back. It's absolutely unprecedented, and the tech does not currently exist.
>For round trips, carrying people.
You think this sort of equipment will be lighter? You're talking about sending the equivalent of an entire saturn 5 to 70 times the height of the moon.
>Jesus, dude, what part of "mechanized" did you miss? Crew and water remain on earth. Spare parts, presumably, are printed on site out of a reservoir of metal dust. 3D printers ain't magic either.
You're talking about nothing but magic. That sort of automation isn't possible now or for another century or so. breakdowns happen too often, and we can't make robot repairmen. This is pure fantasy.
>Solar power suddenly doesn't exist?
What the fuck are you on about?
>There's no such thing as "too late" for more energy.
Once the decline in oil supply starts, it becomes too late, because any energy investment to stem the problem will only cause us to sink deeper into energy debt.
>You'll find the consumption rates are neck and neck with production rates.
and what, you think that's because of their availability, or their use? If more people needed it, the production would increase. The production is supposed to meet the demand so they don't waste money creating a surplus just sitting around.
>>43944607
I've been trying to tell him this whole time that space can only make nuclear power more expensive, and i'm starting to get fed up with the Runaround he's giving me.
Get it? Asteroid miners? Robots? Runaround? Aw shucks.
>>43944664
>this whole time that space can only make nuclear power more expensive
I don't think so, both are pretty unrelated unless we are talking using nuclear-powered railguns to send things in space.
>>43944686
he's talking about getting something off asteroids to make nuclear power cheaper, when going to space will destroy whatever 2% gain the different material brings.
>>43944655
I grow weary of this back and forth but this last note needs to be addressed. Continue as you will on the other points (as it's a matter of optimism or pessimism regarding technology such as 'we can't make robot repairmen'. Right this minute, no, but when?). But this
>and what, you think that's because of their availability, or their use? If more people needed it, the production would increase
Production can't increase because they are FUCKING R-A-R-E. Did you miss that? That is why abundance is an issue!
The only place left to open up new rare earth mines are literally the ocean floor or some other extraterrestrial body.
Lunar mining, of course, isn't a bad idea to begin with. Deep sea mining, however, comes with essentially as severe difficulties as space.
>>43944655
Oh, look, it's the faggot who insists self-awareness can only evolve from already socially intelligent animals and nothing else.
What a fucking faggot.
