Trying this again with the same "topic".
The Minus Gallery is dead, the WWWiki is kind of outdated as hell, and the schedule is almost meaningless. Here's an Imgur gallery of all these thread starter images, though http://imgur.com/a/oerTd
We should use our time waiting for Mage 2e or the 2e Core to come up with some good advice and resources for new players to stick into a Pastebin or something like that.
Let's maybe put together some homebrew and houserules. And we really need to get someone to build our own version of Chummer.
Previous Thread: >>43887637 →
Also, someone claiming to be AmyV's friend says that she's having a mental breakdown (and was fired for criticizing the notoriously shit Ex3 art). So wish her well or be shitbirds, whichever.
Sorry about fucking up the other thread. Figured it would be better to delete it when there were only like five posts as opposed to realizing hours later no one who ctrl+f'd was finding it.
I was also rushing to change threads before the last one fell off page 10 and uploaded the wrong starter image.
After all this AmyV shit I'm beginning to regret telling Paradox not to dump OPP.
>And we really need to get someone to build our own version of Chummer.
Are you willing to pay money? That kind of program doesn't grow on trees. I mean I could program you a WoD character creation program [spoiler[in C[/spoiler], but that's about all my ability, and I'm not good enough to do that for money.
>>43922441
We dunno what the whole story is, this is bullshit on the internet. Lets just hope Amy's alright and see what comes up.
>>43922453
Wow I have never fucked up a spoiler code before. Let that be a sign to you.
>>43922453
I'm tempted to do it myself. I'm just not sure of even how to learn the specifics.
>>43922441
Eh... I think it's more complicated than that. I mean, it's not one person, and while some of the developers are assholes and that was a shit thing to do to a freelancer, it's also not exactly unheard of.
>>43922474
No, that she was fired is actually known. She told the thread.
>>43922300
whatever
>>43922441
why? her privately critizizing Ex3 is harsh and uncalled for but if she was involved with the leaks that's more than enough grounds to fire someone. Everything else is conjecture, including the guy who claims to be her friend. Just because someone tries to kill themselves doesn't mean that an entire company full of freelancers should be screwed over. We don't even know who is responsible for her getting fired, if she even did. Rich? Who fucking knows.
Amy clearly had problems both outside and inside the work place. None of us are in a position to judge or martyr her aside from hoping she isn't dead.
I'm still trying to figure out the David Hill situation, and more importantly, if it will delay the release of Changeling 2e.
Although I certainly wish Amy well if what was poster earlier is true, she's far less important and integral to many WW game lines than David.
I might not be a fan of David and his politics, but since this is /wodg/, I want to know how all this drama will affect the overall WW release schedule and product quality.
>>43922474
Well. She is back from the hospital due to them not having any room.
So. 72 hours off the radar, talking about hospitals, and her "not dead yet" signature... Suicide attempt sounds pretty likely.
>>43922529
>Although I certainly wish Amy well if what was poster earlier is true, she's far less important and integral to many WW game lines than David.
Sadly this. I don't know Amy and she hasn't done enough aside from be a drama queen on /wod/ for me to care. If God-King DaveB almost died then I'd be doing a fundraiser right now.
>>43922505
She wasn't involved with the leaks, though, that's why people are upset.
Also, there are only three actual Onyx Path employees, and Rich is the one in charge, so, yes, Rich would be the one firing anyone. More accurately dropping them, since as Freelancers no one is actually a member of the company.
>>43922632
>If God-King DaveB almost died then I'd be doing a fundraiser right now.
David Hill, not DaveB.
>>43922529
David Hill criticized Star Wars a while back. He's not a fan, for reasons folks might find silly, and some might not. Normally this is something you just discuss like normal human beings, but Zak S, OSR celebrity, gets involved. He dredges up one of these old posts and lambastes it, since anyone who is not Zak S's brand of leftist is secretly some kind of devil conservative and Must Be Destroyed. Zak S. is also the kind of person to have personal armies, and has been more or less stalking Hill for years, only calling off harassment of him because folks went after Hill's kids.
So naturally, the Zak S. brigade goes on the bloodhunt, and Hill decides that enough is enough and that after he finishes all his contracted responsibilities, he's walking away from the tabletop gaming world.
The chances of affecting Changeling 2e are slim, since he's still developer and he's seeing all his projects through. Changeling 2e is probably delayed by some last-minute rewrites that we know very little about. We also had one developer leave the project, but I assume that hurdle's been long overcome.
>>43922680
>since anyone who is not Zak S's brand of leftist is secretly some kind of devil conservative and Must Be Destroyed.
"Anyone who's not my brand of leftist is secretly some kind of devil conservative and must be destroyed" is terrifyingly common nowadays.
>>43922680
It's weird because from what I can tell Zak S and David Hill should be besties.
>>43922723
Not as often as "you're too leftist for me so fuck you". I've had to deal with more of that than other people who are also liberal hating me for not being their type of liberal. (Not to say I don't also get that).
>>43922632
>>43922671
While David Hill is certainly no Dave Brookshaw (DaveB), and he can definitely be annoying at times, David is still the developer of Changeling 2e and involved in many projects for both oWOD and nWOD.
If he's having issues or dropping all RPG contracts, it will affect WW/OPP. It may even ultimately be a good thing. However, it will also likely cause yet more annoying release delays.
Nevertheless, I'm sure DaveB appreciates the compliment and concern for his continued well-being.
>>43922671
My main point is that we don't know anything. Some guy posts anonymously about how someone is in the hospital and I'm not inclined to buy it. Maybe she's not involved in the leak, maybe she is and no one's talking about it, or maybe she left for personal reasons (didn't that guy say she wasn't fired last thread? correct me if i'm wrong) but either way we really don't know enough to start demonizing one group or another. Lots of backdoor shit happens and while I think Rich is probably guilty after what happened with Ex3, at least with Ex3 we have something to go off on.
>>43922671
Yeah I know. But still, I'd be worried as shit if DaveB attempted suicide, more so than any other OPP dev. As far as I know, Changeling 2e is still underway and Promethean is already done so until Dave Hill actually mentions he's quitting then I'm calm.
>>43922806
She wasn't fired from Catalyst, though she did apparently quit while in the middle of making the Tehnomancer book her friend called "her baby", so that's certainly weird.
She wasn't involved in the Exalted leak at all from what I can tell, but she was the catalyst for the Beast leak, in that someone from here wanted to leak it and get her fired.
She *was* fired, and the most likely reason was the Beast leak, that wasn't her fault, and we're also being told it was for criticizing Ex3 art (and another anonymous source confirmed they've seen similar happen).
It's upsetting that scrappy underdogs can still do jerky things, but I'm not willing to write off the whole company. Mostly because I love the games too much. I mean, I don't care for David Hill but I still like what he's involved with, and my dislike for him isn't, like... Orson Scott card.
>>43922840
Promethean is already done?
>>43922257
>>43922474
>>43922806
It appears that Amy is definitely having some serious issues, although the specifics are not clear.
I cannot seem to post a link to her public Facebook (Amy Veeres), but her most recent updates in just the last few hours were:
"I'll be off the radar for the next 72 hours. Nobody's dead."
followed shortly thereafter by,
"No rooms in the hospital, no rooms at any hospital within five miles. So they sent me home. 10/10 healthcare."
>>43922671
I was about to write a huge paragraph up about how as a nipponese it triggers me to hear a white guy say that but figured i shouldn't bring that baggage here. But i'm still mentioning it because I'm pissed.
>>43922257
>(and was fired for criticizing the notoriously shit Ex3 art)
Am I the only one who thinks it looked fine? Even that exalted bakery scene didn't look that bad and I think it looked better than the original piece of art it was referencing.
>>43922795
Not dropping RPG contracts, just fulfilling the ones already committed to and not taking any new ones once he's done. I hope he changes his mind, I like his stuff (even if I poke fun at it like I do with a lot of WoD stuff) and I'm sad to see him go, but if it's for his peace of mind he's gotta do him.
>>43922882
>Promethean is already done?
Maybe in the "the text is done", sense. Or in that 1e is a complete, self-contained line.
>>43922916
Oh well, shit, then she probably did try to kill herself.
I'm a bit confused though by the order of the posts from last thread. Did her friend say that she didn't get fired or did?
>inb4 just go reread the thread
>>43922927
>I think it looked better than the original piece of art it was referencing.
You are literally the only person to say this, yes.
>>43922995
I mean, Dave's part as developer is done. It just needs art and layout so its mostly in Mike's hands now. If Dave died then they could still release the book.
They let me out on account of no available rooms in any hospitals in 500 miles. My insurance wouldn't cover a 500-mine ambulance or chopper ride, so I got to go home with someone watching me.
Everything in the previous thread is true. I don't want to talk anymore about WoD, it's just a lot of bad memories, but if you guys have questions, I'll be here for an half an hour to answer them, then bedtime.
>>43923016
Well, the Lunar Exalted's waist is all fucked unless I'm misremembering it. Not a fan of exaggerated hour glass figures.
>>43922927
Eleven as you are, waifu and most stuff from /a/ is still pretty racist. But what Hill seems to miss is that it's usually sarcasm. Also, apparently I linked the wrong one.
I mean, I understand both sides of the argument, and I think the other Eleven here is basically saying "you can't criticize my country" (which is usually an American thing)... But Hill is also SUPER insufferable.
Like, just annoying as hell, and he tends to whine at minorities in that patronizing "I'm white and know better" sort of way. I mean, better patronizing than abusive, but just SUPER insufferable.
>>43922977
I'm not a fan of much of David Hill's politics or personal drama, but I actually do like a lot of his WW work.
I'm curious about the extent of "fulfilling existing contracts." Does that mean he'll finish the new nWOD and Changeling corebooks, and that's it, or will he continue as Changeling developer for other books like The Hedge?
>>43923032
>I don't want to talk anymore about WoD, it's just a lot of bad memories
:<
I'm sorry to hear that, it's got to suck. I'd hate if my favourite game was ruined by circumstance. Can you unload on us, though? What happened? And what happened with Catalyst? You're Little Mac, right?
>>43923032
So they blackballed you for a leak that wasn't your fault?
>>43923081
Dude how many "We don't knows" do you need.
>>43923126
"We don't know" is the /wodg/ motto.
>>43923032
No questions, but I wanted to say thanks for the good times. I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch, and I wish you the very best.
>>43923106
Freelancers don't have a hell of a lot of rights.
>>43922997
You can't fire a freelancer. They simply get 'let go' or dropped from a project(s) and then blacklisted, in the case of AmyV.
That means she won't be commissioned/hired/requested to do anything for OPP ever, at least as long as Rich owns things.
>>43923032
Shit sucks. Hope you'll get better.
>>43923042
>I think the other Eleven here is basically saying "you can't criticize my country"
I think it's more "you don't get to tell other cultures what they're supposed to think is racist".
Also I assume you realize that referring to actual Japanese people as "Elevens" is significantly more racist than "waifu", considering it's use of a term that, in its original context, was literally intended to dehumanize the Japanese.
>>43923042
>Eleven as you are, waifu and most stuff from /a/ is still pretty racist.
>Eleven
what is this 2010? And yeah, its "racist" but not in the bad way. Most asians are pretty racist too so it balances out. Or rather, theres like casual, fun racism and hurtful racism. I don't know, its kind of hard to explain. Sarcasm is a good word. Like, I'll joke to my chinese friends and say ching chong ching and we'll all have a laugh. Maybe being a few generations removed from Nanking helps.
I've seen that image tons of times and never connected that its the same David. That actually changes a lot about how I think of him now. And no, patronizing is way worse. Its the White Man's Burden all over again.
>>43923032
Wait, ambulances cost money in the states? In Canada you have to pay for a lot of shit but at least doctor's visits and ambulances and emergency room visits are free.
Oh and don't die and stuff.
>>43922995
>>43923017
Note that MattMcF is the developer for Promethean, not Dave B.
However, Dave's continued good health and well-being is still integral to Mage 2e. Not only is he currently developing Signs of Sorcery, the first supplement, but he promised to personally release some material that needed to be cut from the book and convert many of the old Legacies to 2e shortly after the corebook's release. Remember, there's a reason why /wodg/ is a fan of Dave.
>>43923085
I'm Little Mac. And CGL hired me knowing that. I'm going to try and be very careful. I'm not completely blackballed from the industry, but if I say the wrong thing that might be the case, so here's what I can say.
I was frustrated by the focus of most SR5 writers being on "Let's see what these corps and that dragon are doing" and worldbuilding based on real-world events, to the point where the PCs and what would matter to them was an afterthought. All of the stuff my self-insert technomancer did in Chrome Flesh was originally an adventure hook for the PCs, for example. I was asked not to make it metaplot, and Respec was my answer to them. The process, and what my coworkers focused on, disillusioned me. I like all the people I worked with and they all do great work, but basically I signed up for something Catalyst could not provide.
Onyx...4chan has a bad reputation around here. DaveB and Chris and David go on here rarely but it's not a big deal because 99% of the time they're working. I'm just...That Girl That Goes On 4chan. The Ex3 leak was put at my feet due to a series of coincidences that looked bad for me, and after Beast and my KS message to Rich about Ex3's art, he basically had enough of me.
I'm trying to get work elsewhere, but things are not looking good.
That's everything.
>>43923106
I was not blackballed. I just won't be hired by Onyx anymore. This was more like strike three. Or maybe strike fifteen.
>>43923151
Thank you. If I did anything that made you go "Oh, awesome!" then that makes me feel good.
>>43923185
This is what happened. But they don't like the word blacklist, because it implies I'll never get work in tradgames, ever again.
>>43923210
Its a reference to a fucking anime, take a breath.
>>43923211
>Wait, ambulances cost money in the states?
Yeah, they're like well-equipped taxis.
>>43923032
In your defence, the Exalted 3e art was complete ass.
>>43923224
I'mma wish you luck, this all sounds really shit
>>43923224
I could smell this coming from a mile off.
There's a lesson here, especially about being an internet drama queen.
>>43923257
If you're not the person who was saying waifu "actually is pretty racist" earlier, then I apologize. It was the hypocrisy that was getting my goat, not the "racism".
>>43923279
>In your defence, the Exalted 3e art was complete ass.
I-It's good except the poser crap
But criticizing it in private should not be a reason for termination, regardless.
>>43923279
>the Exalted 3e art was complete ass.
Ex3 appears to have been cursed from the start, and much of the art is indeed disappointing.
>>43923224
>I was not blackballed. I just won't be hired by Onyx anymore. This was more like strike three. Or maybe strike fifteen.
It's pretty much being blackballed because Rich is a dickass shithuffer.
>>43923210
Actually, the original post was talking about how white people use a term that mocks Japanese speech is racist, and it is, but not as much as he was making it out. He later backtracked and said he was specifically talking about other expats he claims were standing around outside shopping malls wanting girls to be their waifu, Chris-chan style; which I don't believe for a second is a thing that happened.
>Elevens is racist
Also clearly a tongue in cheek joke, Mr. Nipponese.
>>43923211
Well, the thing is that most things /a/ does are pretty racist. And I don't feel "they're racist so it's okay" counts. Yeah, Japan as a society is super fucking racist and the way they treat whites and blacks outside of specific circumstances is pretty appalling. But that doesn't justify pulling the corners of your eyes and going "me rove you rong time".
Also, yes, America's health care system is fucked.
Land of the Free Unless You're In Debt Because Fuck Your Health.
>And no, patronizing is way worse. Its the White Man's Burden all over again.
Nah. Patronizing guy is annoying, but he won't deny me a job or kick the shit out of me for being a queermo. I'll take being babied over being beaten any day.
>>43923224
Well, that sucks. I hope you get the help you need, and I'm sure as hell not supporting any OP kickstarters for a while.
We all basically know who leaked Exalted, and while I can brush off most of that to 'the publishing industry sucks' laying that at your feet is a bizarre choice.
Anyway, good luck.
>>43923399
>using "waifu" to refer to real women and not pictures
Way to misuse the term.
>>43923429
>not knowing about the difference between Waifus and Waifuism
I wish I had that /tv/ manifesto on hand.
>>43923361
Everything related to Exalted seems like a clusterfuck.
>>43923436
I don't know what this is but it sounds terrible.
>>43923462
>Everything related to Exalted seems like a clusterfuck.
Everything but the actual content and some of the art, apparently.
>>43923224
It's weird because I've always thought of DaveB as "the guy that goes on 4chan". It's a shame. You were one of the nice OPP persons.
>>43923402
Please don't do that. I still love Onyx's work and it would, pardon the expression, kill me, if people stopped buying them for my sake.
Rich Thomas seems like an ass.
>>43923540
First off, I'm glad you are alive.
Secondly, it looks like they were just gunning for an excuse to fire you and find a scapegoat for the leaks.
If they think 4chan is their enemy, that's their problem. Not everyone can stomach the incestuous groupthink that OPP seems to foster in their online communities, and if a different opinion rustles their jimmies enough that they'd kick you out for a private doubt, then fuck them. Fuck them in their head anuses.
Is there any difference between Vampire the Requiem 2e and the Blood and Smoke Chronicle? I already have Blood and Smoke, but I do like a certain uniformity in my bookshelves.
>>43923634
Aside from a few layout differences, they are entirely the same text.
>>43923621
since when did not being 4chan mean that it was full of incestuous groupthink
4chan is a place where people leak playtest documents, that's not being an enemy, that's being a place they know and their creators should know to be cautious around
>>43923675
Hm. Maybe I'll still buy it and donate B&S to my local library.
>>43923621
The idea of 4Chan being anyone's enemy always cracks me up since, a few weird spots on /k/ and /pol/ aside we're basically on here to have a place to vent or look at pictures.
For the most part the people who have enough energy to do something about that kind of shit hop off the site.
>>43923476
Nah, even that I've heard is a clusterfuck.
>>43923564
Between this and what I've heard about the Exalted stuff, I'm finding it hard to be unbiased. Everyone but Dave, Chris, and Rose seems to have the same attitude Matt had around Beast.
>>43923170
My entire company was basically fired once. It was contract work for remote desktop support under GeekSquad. Basically everyone woke up to an email that morning saying "GeekSquad will now be using in-house remote techsupport, if we have any further job opportunities for you we'll let you know".
>>43923682
I think he's talking about the way some of the developers are. Pic related
>>43923540
I think you're underestimating how frustrated people are with Onyx in general. Them firing someone we actually like just sort of adds to the pile.Don't worry, everything DaveB touches is basically gold, so unless they fire him, I doubt we'll stop buying their shit.
>>43923682
Learn to fucking read, anon said that he shied away from public OPP communities because of said incestuous groupthink.
>>43923692
The idea that RPG books can be at the library honestly blows my mind. Of course, our system has none so boo.
>>43923698
>Nah, even that I've heard is a clusterfuck.
Not really. The system actually works now, and works pretty well.
>Everyone but Dave, Chris, and Rose seems to have the same attitude Matt had around Beast.
Who wrote Beast, again?
>>43923727
Matt.
DaveB wrote FOR Beast, but he wasn't the lead. I'm talking about how Matt acted. It seems to be a common way of behaving for OPP developers.
>>43923734
Yeah. Matt is a good writer, but his skills as lead dev leave a lot to be desired. Same with Hill, really.
Can't say anything about Stew Wilson, since he is more elusive than the fucken Higgs Boson.
>>43923734
>I'm talking about how Matt acted.
How did he act? I wasn't on 4chan when Beast was discussed, but I know the game wasn't well received and Matt was pissy on rpg.net.
>>43923749
He was very opposed to criticism until someone said that the metaphor was kind of nasty because of how aimless and sociopathic OG Beasts were.
>>43923749
Whiny and defensive. Acted like anyone who didn't like it just "didn't understand". When he finally broke and admitted he fucked up, he still implied that his vision just wasn't getting through, and he didn't communicate the message right. Any notion of "bullies must die" was unintended, and the game was never meant to represent queer or minority groups.
>>43923765
No, that happened early on. He just realized that people weren't liking it more than they were liking it.
>>43923564
>Rich Thomas seems like an ass
Truth. I've repeatedly remarked that I don't really care what happens to OPP as a result of the the Paradox purchase of WW. If Paradox has their own creative director, they really don't even need Rich. If they directly hired most of the same developers and writers as now, we would probably see little difference in the final products.
>>43923682
>>43923695
>>43923714
People seem to forget than many of the same people who post on /wodg/ also post at the OPP forums and rpg.net, albeit with less moderation and likely more honesty.
We also hardly need 4chan to distribute leaked playtests and similar material. If 4han didn't exist, something else similar would replace it.
>>43923704
>we actually like
Speak for yourself. As long as Dave and Rose are safe the rest of them can get fucked.
>>43923698
>Everyone but Dave, Chris, and Rose seems to have the same attitude Matt had around Beast.
Have we ever actually seen how Dave acts when someone has a serious disagreement with the direction he's taken anything?
>>43923726
>The idea that RPG books can be at the library honestly blows my mind. Of course, our system has none so boo.
Ask about inter-library loans!
>>43923777
Honestly, that happens. It's not the first time that a writer's stumbled into something that's not their intention, especially in a horror game. It's not like every horror writer/game developer's secretly HP Lovecraft.
It's easy to want to defend your work when you're close to it, especially when you know no one's read it yet, even if it does need a lookover at the end of the day. Shit, it happens in this thread all the time.
>>43923804
Speaking as someone who has had serious disagreements with him on stuff, he can be a tad sarcastic and has an infuriating habit of reasonably referencing things he said to clarify the meaning or inconsistencies in the other argument. He's never rude or overly aggressive, though I don't recall him ever conceding a point on here.
Pratchett once had Granny Weatherwax describe a fellow witch as "dangerously reasonable" which I think fits DaveB's style.
>>43923804
He said once that he thought American Exceptionalism was a really dumb idea for a Silver Ladder (and in general) and outright rejected the writing piece someone had done for it.
In all fairness, he was right to do so. I can see the Free Council doing that, but it's absolutely silly for an SL.
>>43923746
>Can't say anything about Stew Wilson, since he is more elusive than the fucken Higgs Boson.
I think Stew likes to maintain air of mystery, although he does post occasionally on rpg.net and the OPP forums, particularly right after the release of Werewolf 2e.
In any event, Werewolf 2e was excellent, Chris seems to have a high opinion of working with Stew, and I would rather Stew's radio silence than some of the self-absorbed crap posted by Matt before he finally realized he needed to rewrite Beast.
>>43923832
Yeah but I think the "not all heroes!" and the fact that he outright had Gamergaters as sample heroes implies a certain marketing strategy at least.
I'm not saying Matt's the devil, like you said everyone gets close to their work, it was just surprising seeing that from him.
>>43923847
> I would rather Stew's radio silence than some of the self-absorbed crap posted by Matt before he finally realized he needed to rewrite Beast.
This. If you're going to post then be professional or don't post at all. At least Dave and Chris tend to just respond to questions rather than drum up drama.
>>43923847
Agreed. But I'd still love to see the promised information about werewolf Lodges, that was supposed to be released just after the core game...
>>43923851
It's writers, man. Every writer gets their one where they're too close to it and it ends up looking like it reveals something about them that'll rub some folks wrong. From China Mielville to Ursula K. Le Guin to Orson Scott Card, every writer does it, especially if they're a genre writer.
>>43923844
I could see a Silver Lader mage looking for leadership symbols in American Exceptionalism, maybe even seeing it as a weapon to undermine Hegemony's hold over nationalism. If you want to make a nation of mages, after all, you need to understand what makes a nation great AND free those symbolic concepts from the iron grip of the Unity.
>>43923782
I don't think people are in danger of getting banned for any of the criticisms that usually show up here. They WOULD however likely get banned for calling each other niggerfaggots and telling them to go fuck themselves.
And if there's no major unofficial channel, people are unlikely to leak materials. You don't leak something if somewhere like OPP and RPGNet are your only options.
>>43923804
No.
And that's kind of the point, innit?
>>43923832
I totally understand his actions, yeah. I get it. I've done the same. Hell, I did the same for catgirls and magical girls. I realize that some of those criticism were valid, though, and went back to the drawing board and now it's something that I can appreciate and at least a few others here have said they like. Matt was one step below the CthulhuTech developers.
>>43923804
>>43923844
I've actually seen Dave get annoyed a few times on the various forums (look at some of the later comments on his rpg.net actual play threads), but it was usually in response to people and comments that were well beyond the pale or outright trolling. I, and likely most others, believed he was far too nice for too long.
Dave is also so accessible and amicably willing to answer questions and drop spoilers that he would be readily forgiven for an occasional unkind word.
>>43923883
I feel like unless Mielville or le Guin turns out to think it's okay to murder people, one of those three stands out... (hint: It's the one who uses his money to further oppression).
>>43923835
>Pratchett once had Granny Weatherwax describe a fellow witch as "dangerously reasonable" which I think fits DaveB's style.
I think that's because Dave has a lot of the stereotypical British reserve and understatement in his personality.
>>43923782
Something similar? I doubt it. I think there are very few places on the internet that is even interested in what the playtests are, and of those most of them are enthusiast dens, prone to fanboying for their favourite thing, otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place.
I've been playing around with the Exalted leak, and it's hilarious that the actual diehards - the ones who care the most - were the last ones to read about its contents. The sight of people speculating on things that are already out was incredibly comical. OPP trying to shut the barn door after the horse walked out is incredibly stupid in my opinion.
I like 4chan because I don't have to prove my WOD credentials. I don't have to toe the RPG.net political line or play nice with the devs. I call a spade a spade, and if they're too bothered by that they can enjoy none of my dollars.
>>43923932
You don't know me.
>>43923908
>Matt was one step below the CthulhuTech developers.
Now that's an exaggeration and you darn well know it. Matt took the 4chan leak well and at least explained his original reasoning as to why he didn't want to talk about Heroes as much (which would be a fair point if Let's Look at Things from the Other Side wasn't already a well established White Wolf tradition). There certainly wasn't anything equivalent to Wildfire's blowups. I'd honestly say that when it comes to stubbornness, you and Matt are about the same: a whole lot of pushback with eventual change.
>>43923844
>American Exceptionalism
Good gods that was another dumb idea I didn't need to learn about...
>>43923883
I think RPG writers should be held to a higher standard though when it comes to whining. Fiction writers are artists first and foremost. RPG writers are contract workers who represent their company. Any whinyness from them reflects poorly on their company and product which isn't a problem when you write fiction and your personality is part of the marketing.
Just think about how OPP's reputation got dragged through the mud by all the devs who couldn't keep it straight.
>>43923991
Well, we are one of the few countries that actually gives a shit about Free Speech. The concept as a whole was retarded enough to make an entire videogame about, though.
>>43924025
>Well, we are one of the few countries that actually gives a shit about Free Speech. The concept as a whole was retarded enough to make an entire videogame about, though.
Eh.. There are TONS of countries who gives a shit about free speech. Including, basically the whole of Western Europe.*
*Except the UK.
>>43922257
Dang. I was hoping the new thread pic would be the promethean one. That is some sweet scribble action
>>43923983
But Heroes were a minor problem. The real issue is that Beasts were utter assholes less redeemable than Vampires. That's still technically true, and he never really changed much in that regard. It's also really weird that he kept using the "this game is about playing the monsters and that's never been done before and it might be hard for some people" excuse when VtM was about the same damned thing, so they weren't treading new ground.
He didn't take the 4chan leak well, he complained about people peeking in the oven before the pie was done baking, and ignored any criticisms as coming from haters until the criticism became so overwhelming that he couldn't deny it.
And, yeah, his whole "if you want to play a Heroes you're DOING IT WRONG" attitude is similar to Wildfire telling people that having Tagers in Mecha is WRONG or killing off their plot NPCs is WRONG.
>>43924025
A lot of countries care about free speech. America has this weird thing where "freedom of speech" means "freedom to harass", though. It's one of those "Letter of the law, not the spirit" things.
I doubt the Founding Fathers would have left the Constitution so vague if they knew it would be used to justify browbeating people until they off themselves.
Then again, Jefferson thought no generation should be beholden to the previous ones, and thought the Constitution should expire every 19 years. Why 19 I'm not sure.
We lost a true Hero today
>>43924047
Maybe 19 was the age of majority back then?
>>43924045
Promethean? Scribbles?
this is the closest I have to a Promethean one.
>>43924049
Wait, what?
>>43924043
Really? I realize that many of the various constitutions have allowances for it, but I always got the impression that America was considered weird for stretching the definition to include most forms of pornography and "offensive" speech.
Free speech is taken beyond and above in America. No one should be barred for speech based solely on its content. The correct answer to heinous or terrible usage of this right should be an excessive and vigorous reply.
I unintentionally wrote a AMERIKAA mage and my ST slapped me silly. So I made him a tinfoil conspiracist and it flew pretty well.
>>43924043
>*Except the UK.
can't argue with that. Everyone here has the IQ of a bucket of mud when it comes to decision making, and our politicians don't listen to anyone. Parliament is like Tumblr, which I will compare to a garden full of birds in the morning (Everyoneis yelling their own agenda,and not listenng to anything anyone else is saying.
>>43924047
>America has this weird thing where "freedom of speech" means "freedom to harass", though. It's one of those "Letter of the law, not the spirit" things.
Well, we do have harassment laws and exceptions for things like libel, legally. It's more that we maintain that offensive speech should be allowed to exist, regardless of its actual contribution to society. Both legally and philosophically.
>>43924067
America has the most free free speech laws around the world. Its why a lot of websites base themselves in the States. Its why 4chan is still an American site and hasn't moved to Mongolia or something.
Its not that other countries don't care about free speech, they do. Care isn't exactly the right word to describe it and I'd go into more detail but I have class in 5 hours and shit I need to just close this tab before I really screw myself.
>>43924067
Let's see here... The UK doesn't have constitutionally backed free speech, because they don't have a constitution, per se.
Germany are pretty high on free speech, as long as it isn't praising the nazis or trying to deny facts of WW2.
France as it is as a political entity now, is based off of USA, so of course they value free speech.
Scandinavia is all for free speech, as long as it doesn't encourage people to commit crimes, or attack people. (Although getting nailed it is seriously rare.)
I can't speak for the BeNeLux countries though. Haven't studied them enough.
And that is basically western Europe. Whoever says Spain belongs there hasn't been to Spain. It's southern Europe. (And to be fair, Scandinavia doesn't belong on the list either. It's Northern Europe.)
>>43924047
>The real issue is that Beasts were utter assholes less redeemable than Vampires. That's still technically true, and he never really changed much in that regard. It's also really weird that he kept using the "this game is about playing the monsters and that's never been done before and it might be hard for some people" excuse when VtM was about the same damned thing, so they weren't treading new ground.
Yeah. Vampire is about the horror of being forced to be a onster, while Beast spent most of its time screaming "I'm a huge asshole, I have a RIGHT to be a huge asshole, and fuck you stop oppressing me if you think otherwise!"
Beasts literally have no problem with hurting people. They justify it to themselves using standard abuuser tactics, and the game doesn't question their slant at all.
Vampire makes it very clear that vampires, especially the ones that revel in their monstrousness the way Beasts do, are Bad People you Should Not Be Rooting For.
Beast was written with the assumption that if you were OPPOSED to beasts you were rooting for People you Should Not Be Rooting For.
>>43924166
>capitalizing
>its not an acronym
Fuck off.
>>43924139
>ermany are pretty high on free speech, as long as it isn't praising the nazis or trying to deny facts of WW2.
This makes me pretty happy, I admit. I kind of assumed that Germany's hate speech laws had made them into a bunch of Nazis. It's still not ideal, but it's a good sign.
>Scandinavia is all for free speech, as long as it doesn't encourage people to commit crimes
So Futurama is banned there?
>>43924139
Most European countries and Canada permit the criminalization of certain speech based on content, including broad categories like speech deemed offensive to certain groups and "hate speech". Such laws would be totally unacceptable under American jurisprudence, and except for a small minority of largely college-age students, widely reviled across the American political spectrum.
>>43924067
America is weird for not treating harassment and hatespeech as crimes, but they're far from the only country that has free speech.
Hell, most people don't even understand the concept of free speech in the first place. Case in point... >>43924075
>No one should be barred for speech based solely on its content.
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/disturbing-the-peace.html
>Fighting or challenging someone to fight in a public place
>Using offensive words in a public place likely to incite violence
>Shouting in a public place intending to incite violence or unlawful activity
>Bullying a student on or near school grounds
>Knocking loudly on hotel doors of sleeping guests with the purpose of annoying them
>Shouting profanities out of a car window in front of a person's home over an extended period of time
>>43924117
The problem with that is that there's this notion of "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me" that's... not really true. Stress caused by things like words and the way people treat you isn't a fake thing. Stress has real physical ramifications, but we treat it as if feels don't actually hurt.
I don't think we need laws for stopping people from saying shitty, hateful things out there to the internet or on television or anything--I think society takes care of that fine enough on it's own more and more--but I do think that within private or less large scale discourse there needs to be... well, more thought and consideration given to what people say. People who file for the permits to assemble should be barred from that if their intent or purpose is to harm others emotionally. People like the WBC or KKK should not be given a public space to be racist in.
The only real argument against that is "those laws can be abused!"
Well to that I point to the fact that the Japanese-Americans didn't get habeus corpus, so "it's illegal" doesn't mean shit to stop the government anyway.
>>43924193
Futurama does not encourage the cool, cool crime of robbery.
>>43924211
Note that most of those are places, exigent circumstances, and criminal conduct. That's what I meant by content. Of course there should be reasonable limitations on speech, but I tend to err on the side of more freedom.
>>43924211
>case in point
>based solely on its contents
>>43924207
>except for a small minority of largely college-age students, widely reviled across the American political spectrum.
http://thehardtimes.net/2015/11/17/nothing-really-offends-me-says-walking-embodiment-of-white-privilege/
The equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment exists because the Constitution acknowledges the Tyranny of the Majority, and the need to protect the rights of people who are too small in number to protect themselves in the system of Democracy.
>>43924234
>>43924249
>"Fight me" isn't content
>>43924257
As long as you're not breaking the law or being a odious nuisance you should be able to say whatever you like. "Fighting words' are already criminal and dubious as a defence, asking for duels is illegal. There's no need to restrict free speech for things that already have laws against them - they're not valuable or insightful as judged by society at large.
>>43924285
The WBC currently gets rich off of staging protests, shouting inflammatory, hateful rhetoric, and then suing the shit out of people who they piss off.
If you don't see that as a flaw in the system, at least as far as the Spirit of the Law goes...
>>43924211
>if their intent or purpose is to harm others emotionally
Agreed.
>People like the WBC or KKK should not be given a public space to be racist in.
Strongly disagree. I think even ISIS supporters should be allowed to demonstrate publicly if they avoid being violent.
I honestly agree with what you're trying to get at, which is that we shouldn't legally protect harassment, and if a person feels they're being harassed, they can, and should, seek legal protection. An NRA conference being held at the school a shooting survivor goes to isn't harassment, but it would be if they were tormenting them at their home.
>>43924318
It's not a flaw. It's a necessary evil. A minority exploiting a system doesn't inherently mean that system should be removed.
>>43924211
You fail to make distinctions between potential criminal penalties and civil disputes, the importance of state action and the public/private distinctions with respect to speech restrictions, and do not really understand the very high bar necessary for incitement, disturbing the peace, harassment and similar charges in the USA.
American simply don't like the government deciding what's acceptable or offensive. As you note, we're certainly not infallible, it has been abused, and these abuses are some of the reasons why we are so determined to ensure the broadest level of free speech.
You should also note that liberal groups were at the vanguard of establishing free speech standards in the USA, often to protect groups like communists and labor. It was even the ACLU that established the right of Nazis to march. Although you largely seek to ban right-wing speech, never forget that when conservatives are in power, the speech and ideas deemed "offensive" could be the ones you cherish.
Ironically, in American, where Holocaust denial is legal and fascist and bigoted groups like the KKK are free to speak, no recognizable federal or state elected official espouse these types of ideas, and American almost universally find them horrific (despite ridiculous and hyperbolic claims during election season). However, in Europe where "hate speech" and similar conduct is criminalized, these movements are far more prominent, including elected national and EU Parliament leaders.
The free speech debate always reminds me of the Tom Wolfe quote, "[T]he dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe."
>>43924318
I think it's a credit to American national institutions that the WBC is allowed to exist, despite pissing off virtually everyone.
Emotional harm is not something the government should be involved in. It's hard to prove damages, for one, and it's more of a civil matter than one for a legislator to deal with. I agree that it is terrible that they can lawyer their way out of their horribleness but you must remember that the WBC's lawyers also did a tenacious defense of civil rights activists back in the day. I'm sure the establishment back then were absolutely convinced that their speech was not valid.
>>43924318
People are always going to abuse the system.
Think about the presumption of innocence as an example. Yes, it means that many criminals may get away but as long as it protects that one innocent man then it is worth it.
One group abusing free speech is worth it so that free speech is protected for everyone else.
>americans teaching europoors about freedom
what a thread
>>43924360
>Emotional harm is not something the government should be involved in.
I disagree with this, solely because there are situations where emotional harm can be clear and measurable, such as in the cases where legal harassment can already be established. We shouldn't go beyond that, though.
>>43924397
That is what the civil courts are for.
>>43922529
>>43922632
>>43922680
Hyper-political game Developers: The Developing when?
>>43924407
Ah, sorry. Misinterpreted.
>>43924336
>An NRA conference being held at the school a shooting survivor goes to isn't harassment, but it would be if they were tormenting them at their home.
But that's exactly the kind of emotional abuse that causes harm. Hell, you can already make that kind of thing a civil suit.
I also don't think that it's a necessary evil. I dislike the notion that the Law must be a strict and inflexible thing. For one, that's why America has the highest recidivism rate of any country AND the highest prisoner population.
>>43924344
>never forget that when conservatives are in power, the speech and ideas deemed "offensive" could be the ones you cherish.
Yeah, and when the people in power are assholes or don't care about a minority they can also just say "fuck the constitution" and do what they want. Hell, America already doesn't really care about committing war crimes as is, and I already pointed out the fuck up that was Korematsu v. United States, and how it didn't matter that it was unconstitutional, it was 6-3 in favour of ignoring Habeus Corpus for an entire demographic.
I don't care about Nazi flags or politicians saying stupid hateful shit (hell, the more they say it, the less likely they are to get elected). I care about bullying and harassment and people being driven to suicide. I care about terrorism in the form of making people afraid by marching down the street festooned with symbols of hate meant to strike fear into people's hearts.
>>43924360
Everything about a person is physical, including their emotions.As an aside I half think that the WBC is a 'false flag' of sorts meant to point out the flaws in unlimited free speech and/or to show how evil bigotry is
>>43924388
I'm a canadian you bastard
I resent the notion that you called me a burger
but I do like freedom nevertheless
>>43924388
Pretty sure it's Americans arguing with Americans about freedom.
I've always been fond of the rock metaphor.
>Your right to throw rocks ends at my face.
>>43924428
>>43924434
considering that i'm a canadian too, i think its canada vs canada to see who can suck america off harder.
>tfw a girl last week told me chris rock performs hate speech for the use of the word nigger
>tfw another girl said i was a rape apologist for suggesting rape victims follow trigger warnings on media that concerns rape
>tfw someone told me free speech should be used to limit other people's free speech
annex us please
>>43924422
>But that's exactly the kind of emotional abuse that causes harm. Hell, you can already make that kind of thing a civil suit.
In this particular case, we're assuming the group didn't intentionally go to the school a shooting survivor, and that the school just happened to include one. The fact that a minority is inadvertently being caused emotional harm by the existence of such a group somewhere on the campus speaking isn't a reasonable basis for legal action. At least it shouldn't be. If the student is forced to attend the rally, then yeah, I can see him reasonably suing the school.
And yeah... enforcement doesn't always happen to the degree that it should be, and fuck the government when it fails to give minorities the same rights as the majority, but that is itself a flaw in the government that we shouldn't be removing rights to fix. We should be addressing the government directly and holding it accountable.
Can someone fill me in on everything known regarding Deviant?
>>43924463
Ironic, then; it seems the only person arguing against unlimited free speech is an American.
>tfw someone told me free speech should be used to limit other people's free speech
That's really the only recourse, though. And it's ironic that certain (usually Rightist) groups advocate unlimited freedom of speech (i.e. their right to be assholes), but hate if the left chooses to do the same to them. For instance they cite religious freedom when their children bully gays, but complain private businesses are in a "war on Christmas" for choosing not to celebrate the largely secular holiday to the Christian's liking. Oh, also mosques.
>>43924485
>we're assuming the group didn't intentionally go to the school a shooting survivor, and that the school just happened to include one.
I actually thought you meant, like, the NRA giving a speech at Sandy Hook.
>that is itself a flaw in the government that we shouldn't be removing rights to fix
I don't feel that there should be a "right to be an asshole", really. At least not to the degree I'm talking about.
>>43924487
>You were a normal person
>You were experimented on
>You're free
>THEY want you back
>FIGHT THE POWER
>Inspirations are Sense8, Akira, Doctor Manhattan, Prototype, Dark Angel, John Doe, Kyle XY, that kind of shit
>DaveB is lead
There, you're caught up.
>>43924422
I would like to remind you that the internment of Japanese Americans was the policy of FDR, a liberal, Democratic American icon, it was not as clear as you suggest (See Ex parte Endo), it was during wartime, and it's widely considered a shameful part of American history.
However, such abuses make freedom of speech all the more important to most Americans in order to ensure our unfettered ability to politically oppose such unconstitutional measures in the future.
Most importantly, Americans simply believe people don't have a right to not be offended. We nevertheless still have laws criminal laws concerning actual harassment and incitement, albeit with higher burdens than elsewhere. Similarly, we, like all other developed countries, also have a civil court system to resolve most other disputes, although just saying really mean things to someone is usually not an actionable tort without other clear, demonstrable, and otherwise unprotected conduct.
Lastly, other than a small fringe, there's is no real movement in America to alter our free speech jurisprudence, no less tamper with our First Amendment.
>>43924517
>I actually thought you meant, like, the NRA giving a speech at Sandy Hook.
Sandy Hook was a fake though. Columbine is a better example.
>>43924487
Venom Snake is a Deviant.
>>43924552
Solid Snake is a Deviant.
>>43924557
Solid Snake wasn't experimented on, he was engineered. Venom was taken against his will, surgically altered, became a cyborg and hypnotized to erase his sense of self and give him the experiences of another man. He's as Deviant as it gets.
>>43922927
>Even that exalted bakery scene didn't look that bad and I think it looked better than the original piece of art it was referencing.
Well, this post is conclusive evidence that whatever Attribute art appreciation would run off of, it's not Intelligence or else-wise you'd have been too stupid to even string together this post.
Sooo... congratulations, you're not a retard. Your taste is just criminally bad.
>>43923032
Sweet Mary, what the fuck America. What. The. Fuck.
>>43924463
>>tfw someone told me free speech should be used to limit other people's free speech
Eeew.
>>43923746
>Can't say anything about Stew Wilson, since he is more elusive than the fucken Higgs Boson.
He gets triggered really easily, if the autist/troll that was occasionally posting in Werewolf threads was any indication.
>>43924570
Raiden is a Deviant though.
>>43924528
>I would like to remind you that the internment of Japanese Americans was the policy of FDR, a liberal, Democratic American icon, it was not as clear as you suggest (See Ex parte Endo), it was during wartime, and it's widely considered a shameful part of American history.
I don't know why you seem to think I only care if it's a left vs right thing. I mean, it ends up being that because the left is generally more in favour of minority protections, but that doesn't mean liberals aren't also assholes. And, yes, it was a hard time, but it was still an incredibly shitty unfounded baseless thing to do (just like one of my state's mayors using it as an example of why it should be okay to turn away refugees like a fucking shithead).
My point there is that it doesn't matter what is or isn't a law.
>Most importantly, Americans simply believe people don't have a right to not be offended.
No, many Americans believe OTHER people don't have a right to not be offended. Which brings me back to
http://thehardtimes.net/2015/11/17/nothing-really-offends-me-says-walking-embodiment-of-white-privilege/
>>43924548
Go home /pol/I was actually going to make a joke about that
>>43924577
>Eeew.
I don't understand that reaction, although I'll admit I don't really know what they mean in the first place.
>>43924049
More like a month ago, which was just recently outed.
>>43924577
>pointless insults
I think the original Exalted art looked worse because the Lunar was poorly proportioned. I don't think either is particularly great but I think the new one is better because itsmore kawaii.
>>43924588
Raiden is pretty Deviant. So is the B&B squad, Grey Fox, Quiet and Vamp I guess.
If Deviant ever comes out in my life time I'd want to roleplay as Venom and use the CQC rules in Hurt Locker to body slam bitches left and right.
>>43924517
>I don't feel that there should be a "right to be an asshole", really. At least not to the degree I'm talking about.
An asshole (in this context) isn't a person who is wrong and speaks his/her mind. It's a person who speaks anything (truth or fiction) to harass others, which is not an exercise of expression, but an attack on a person or group meant to inflict emotional harm on them. We have a system set up to handle harassment. There is no "right to be an asshole", just a right to be offensive to a person's worldview, up to an including the infliction of actual emotional harm.
>>43923746
>Matt is a good writer
Promethean was so good that I'm afraid history will repeat itself and cause Deviant to be bad.
>>43924517
You really need to study the history of speech restrictions in the USA and related jurisprudence. You also don't seem to acknowledge that Leftist groups are just as capable and often eager at asserting their right to be assholes as anyone on the Right. A visit to any college campus should readily prove the point. You similarly do not appear to understand the difference between state action and private property, and attempts to encourage conduct (e.g., Christmas decorations in malls, businesses, etc.), while acknowledging such demands can never be made mandatory.
Further, the NRA would have been well within their rights to speak in Newton right after Sandy Hook without fear of government sanction. It would be no different than any other interest group protesting where they might not be welcome. If there was any doubt, read about National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie.
>>43924588
>>43924570
>>43924557
>>43924552
>>43924604
The Pain, The Fear (although Pain and Fear did it to themselves), Gene (I think?), Python, Null, Quiet, Codetalker, Venom, Psycho Mantis, Solid, Liquid, Raiden, Beauty and the Beasts, maybe Vamp, Desperado, LLC, and a few of the MG1/2 villains are all Deviants, from the sound of it.
Frank Jaeger has the pleasure of being a Deviant as Null and then some sort of fucked up Promethean with a Good Brain (or just a Deviant resurrected Soulless) as the Cyborg Ninja.
>>43924604
>If Deviant ever comes out in my life time I'd want to roleplay as Venom and use the CQC rules in Hurt Locker to body slam bitches left and right.
I actually listed out a big thing for what merits to take to represent CQC from MGS3 and MGSV using the more expansive Fighting Style "blown out" rules, but the post was deleted.
>>43924570
>Venom was taken against his will, surgically altered, became a cyborg and hypnotized to erase his sense of self and give him the experiences of another man. He's as Deviant as it gets.
He never once expressed a desire for revenge against Big Boss, or Zero, for doing that to him.
Hell, he was still willing to die during Operation Intrude a decade later. Although that one may have been neither him nor Big Boss expecting Solid to actually take him out.
Based on his reaction to the Truth mission, he's grateful to the original Big Boss for making him greater than the man he used to be, and a man with just as much claim to the legend of Big Boss as the original.
John was the one man who knew about Venom and never treated him as "a copy". He's "the other Big Boss", not "the fake Big Boss".
>>43924610
>You also don't seem to acknowledge that Leftist groups are just as capable and often eager at asserting their right to be assholes as anyone on the Right.
I literally just stated that it's not a left versus right thing, and I've pointed to Korematsu v. US, which as someone else pointed out was from a liberal.
>You similarly do not appear to understand the difference between state action and private property
I do. You failed to comprehend what I was saying, which is that often groups, usually on the right, will champion unlimited free speech until they feel that certain speech is hurting them. For instance if a business started saying "Happy Hanukkah" or even "Allah be with you", Republicans would likely flip their shit.
>Further, the NRA would have been well within their rights to speak in Newton right after Sandy Hook without fear of government sanction. It would be no different than any other interest group protesting where they might not be welcome. If there was any doubt, read about National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie.
I'm aware that it would be. I'm saying it shouldn't be. I'm saying that things like bad taste or groups trying to intimidate and terrorize others (like Neo-nazis marching through a Jewish neighborhood) should not be allowed.
>>43924642
>He was mentally dominated to love his abuser
>He never once showed a desire for revenge
Gee...
>>43924652
Nothing about Venom becoming Big Boss required him to love Big Boss. Hell, as "Big Boss" he was the one in the strongest position to have a critical view of Big Boss.
Big Boss does not love Big Boss. His subordinates do (after Ocelot is through with them, at least), but he doesn't.
>>43924652
>I'm saying that things like bad taste should not be allowed.
Well thank fuck you don't get to decide what the law is.
>>43924652
>I'm aware that it would be. I'm saying it shouldn't be. I'm saying that things like bad taste
Bad taste shouldn't be illegal. It should be objectionable. Unless you'd like both Obama and Trump held legally accountable for using tragedies to propel their own agendas immediately after they occurred.
>groups trying to intimidate and terrorize others (like Neo-nazis marching through a Jewish neighborhood) should not be allowed.
You raise a very interesting point. Perhaps there are situations where groups should be prevented from protesting in areas that would create a situation similar to a person being targeted in their home by a group. It does make me wonder if we should let a Pride parade go through a Muslim neighberhood, though.
Humans should not be trusted as a matter of law as to what is good taste or not. Legislation tails the edge of culture by 20, 25 years - would you liked to be chained to the cultural mores of someone from 25 years ago? The cultural conflict of different narratives and offense is healthy to a democracy.
>>43924684
He spent nine years being hypnotized.
>>43924690
>>43924708
When "Bad taste" is "trying to tell victims of gun violence that guns aren't the problem", I'd say that yes, that's the kind of thing that shouldn't be allowed. Freedom of speech is not the guarantee of a platform.
There's also a difference between using a tragedy to propel an "agenda" that's "let's keep this from occurring ever again". Although again, I'm not talking about things politicians say, I'm talking about more direct face to face relationship things. Maintaining a Stormfront blog isn't the same as marching through the streets of Jewtown in Nazi regalia.
>It does make me wonder if we should let a Pride parade go through a Muslim neighberhood, though.
I think that the bias should always be towards whichever thing encourages less discrimination. So Pride parade (tacky and fucking counterintuitive as they are) through a staunch religious neighborhood? Sure, that promotes togetherness. Nazis through the Jewish neighborhood? No way, that promotes bigotry, hate, and is a small form of terrorism.
>>43924741
>Humans should not be trusted as a matter of law as to what is good taste or not.
Well, that's how it already works, and it would be unethical to leave it in the hands of robots.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, Jefferson thought the Constitution should be rewritten every 19 years.
But I guess we should really stop talking about this anyway and instead talk about how MGS is Deviant.
>>43924642
If Venom is me, the player, then I was fucking mad as shit and all I wanted to do was kill BB so I loaded up MGS3 and beat MG2 to get my revenge.
And, we don't know what he really wanted after learning the truth because presumably that is Solid Snake's gunfire at the end of the game. He really didn't have time to go through the gambit of emotions before being sent to his death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5IwIGaT4pU
It sounds more like Venom is trying to cope and push towards the future rather than dwell on the past. He's been Big Boss for 10 years and has, again presumably because of all the cut content, taken a wildly different path from John due to all the heroic things he's done. In that way, he embodies the "taken against your will and doing good with the powers granted to you" thing that Deviant's inspirations are all about. Venom saves kids and tries to give them an education while Coward Snake goes around kidnapping kids and putting guns in their hands. That smil
>>43924684
>Nothing about Venom becoming Big Boss required him to love Big Boss.
According to Ocelot and Big Boss, its Venom's previous love of Big Boss that let them justify the horrible thing they were doing to him. Maybe Big Boss would have pussied out if it was some random stranger.
Also keep in mind that we don't know when Venom was supposed to learn the truth in the original story. The Diamond Dogs logo switches to Outer Heaven mid cut scene and the Truth mission came before the true cut ending. We don't know if Venom was supposed to react to what happened to him or not.
>>43924773
>But I guess we should really stop talking about this anyway and instead talk about how MGS is Deviant
Yeah. I don't think you're an idiot, but we're obviously at somewhat fundamental odds if your position is that government legislation needs to decide what is considered tolerant or nontolerant in regards to matters like freedom of religion (Muslims) versus freedom of sexual choice (Gays). Again, not hating. I just don't think we'll resolve a discussion between two so dissimilar viewpoints without another 1000 or so off-topic posts.
>>43924708
>It does make me wonder if we should let a Pride parade go through a Muslim neighberhood, though.
https://youtu.be/44vzMNG2fZc?t=5m36s
>>43924773
>When "Bad taste" is "trying to tell victims of gun violence that guns aren't the problem", I'd say that yes, that's the kind of thing that shouldn't be allowed.
I think it should absolutely be legal. It's in incredibly bad taste, but the correct response to that isn't making it criminal, it's, as >>43924075
pointed out, "an excessive and vigorous reply".
Criminalizing speech, ironically enough, just gives it more power.
Found this Discipline.
>The Importance of Conversation - Combat is transformed into a social battle, allowing the user to use his Social attributes instead of his Physical ones.
How would you fluff this? Is it just villains and heroes talking shit to each other?
So, what do you guys think is a good way to avoid dipping into the cliche of being a "government experiment who is so tormented" when playing Deviant? It is one of the most common freeform/fanfic pitfalls.
>>43924773
>So Pride parade (tacky and fucking counterintuitive as they are) through a staunch religious neighborhood? Sure, that promotes togetherness. Nazis through the Jewish neighborhood? No way, that promotes bigotry, hate, and is a small form of terrorism.
I think this shows your own biases. Both are incredibly disrespectful and given how essential religion is to some people both of those cases equate to "you are not welcome, scum of the Earth".
Now, obviously the true question is what to do about mutually exclusive viewpoints in a democracy. Criminalising or oppressing either seems to defeat the purpose of democracy, on the other hand leaving it entirely unregulated promotes social unrest that might well kill the democracy too.
>>43924804
Not quite what I meant, but I do think such things should be a factor.
I mean, usually the complaints I see lobbied against such ideas are "they could be abused". I know the government is pretty shit, and really just incompetent, but I don't think stricter, uncaring, emotionless approaches to the law are working, so something more "I'll know it when I see it" might be better, as opposed to worse. And, after all, there are plenty of other countries with such laws that we could look to, and they seem to be doing fine. America tends to use "we can't do that, it would be terrible" for why they don't do things, but... turns out they aren't. Australia has no mass shootings, for instance.
>>43924808
Like I said, there's precedent that it won't make the country a worse place. Also, as related to things like protests and gatherings, it's not that I think certain things should be ILLEGAL so much as it is that I don't think they should be CONDONED. After all, you can't just protest or parade down the street no matter what; you need to apply or a permit first. Currently, that means nothing. You can get a permit to do something horrible like walk down the street in Nazi regalia. That shouldn't be how it is, because that IS using free speech to impugn on other people's freedom of speech (by implying harm to them if they oppose you).
>>43924832
Well, first I admitted bias, but also I pointed out WHY there was a distinct difference. "Come join us, be happy and tolerant, let go of your hate" isn't the same message as "Mud races should fear us and know their place, and we'll kill them if they try to soil our glorious whiteness".
Basically what I'm saying is that the world is not black and white and treating our laws as black and white is terrible, and why people get fucked forever over things like "three strikes" laws.
>>43924773
>"trying to tell victims of gun violence that guns aren't the problem"
Well, its not. Maybe its bad taste to tell people in obviously vulnerable situations but that doesn't mean that guns are responsible for killing people, murderers are.
>>43924832
It is regulated now. You can't do pride parades or marches through the neighbourhood without letting the police know about it or you could get shut down.
/r/ing that CQC write up. I was thinking of just taking the two 2 dot merits from each CQC style in Hurt Locker. The one that gives you lethal damage on slams against hard surfaces and the other 2 dot CQC merit that I can't remember.
>>43924848
>"Come join us, be happy and tolerant, let go of your hate" isn't the same message as "Mud races should fear us and know their place, and we'll kill them if they try to soil our glorious whiteness".
It kind of is when the whole purpose of your parade down that street is to incite a reaction from people with opposing views. Its not tolerant when you're not being tolerant of their religious viewpoints. Which I don't really know how I feel about it because traditional, conservative muslims (not radicals, just plain muslims) are very anti-gay and anti-tolerance but its still purposefully inciting hatred from the community.
>>43924848
>Well, first I admitted bias, but also I pointed out WHY there was a distinct difference. "Come join us, be happy and tolerant, let go of your hate" isn't the same message as "Mud races should fear us and know their place, and we'll kill them if they try to soil our glorious whiteness".
Well, that implies that "be happy and tolerant" is superior and more desirable than "wipe out the mud races", which might very well be true, but at that point you do not have SUPER 100% FREE SPEECH.
>Basically what I'm saying is that the world is not black and white and treating our laws as black and white is terrible, and why people get fucked forever over things like "three strikes" laws.
That, however, is very true, but that is the inherent weakness of laws. They have a hard time dealing with grey. You can attempt it, but really that is the main reason why we have judges and juries (in whatever combinations, depending on local legislature) to give the whole thing a grey, human perspective. Of course a human perspective is subjective and so possibly different from case to case. What a delicious conundrum!
My friends have been looking at playing some VtM, and I thought I'd get the jump on character creation. Question though for Tremere, does each path function as it's own discipline and require it's own set of dots and experience? Putting five dots in thaumaturgy shouldn't grant me every single power available.
>>43924830
It's a trite reference at this point, but Kamen Rider/Any number of comic book heroes would be a good inspiration.
>>43922257
I found on the WWwiki a page or so for quick NPC stats, and I found it extremely useful even if it's a bit outdated. I'm thinking on expandig it a bit by crossing it with the Dread Powers stuff in Hunter in order to make a universal opponent generator for WoD.
Has anybody here used/heard of/made similar resources?
>>43924910
Considering that he's specifically asking how not to fall for that archetype its not a very good recomendation.
>>43924830
Venom is a good example because his circumstances are so bizarre. He's a Deviant who doesn't know he's a Deviant who probably would have signed up for it had he been asked.
Alien abduction is pretty underused nowadays too.
I also thought about a mix between the Cheiron Group and the Night Watch. A bunch of gang banger who thought it'd be a good idea to graft vampire skin onto their arms and the experiment went horribly wrong. Now your former friends want to hunt you down as a mercy.
>>43924901
>but at that point you do not have SUPER 100% FREE SPEECH.
Well considering my point is that SUPER 100% FREE SPEECH is bad (and not even a thing that exists in the first place)
>>43924855
Well... to get myself to stop talking about Freedom of Speech... sure, gimme a while.
>>43924848
>And, after all, there are plenty of other countries with such laws that we could look to, and they seem to be doing fine
I think that most of the people arguing with you aren't really saying that it could be abused, though. I think they're saying that, even if a government defined idea of progressiveness worked, maybe we still wouldn't want it. Legally intolerable expression is bad. I want a Nazi to be able to publically say he doesn't believe the holocaust happened, just like I want him to go to jail if he threatens to harm a Jewish person.
>>43924951
>>43924910
I love alien abduction, and I suppose Kamen Rider is always a fun reference, even if it is done to death.
>>43924951
>Considering that he's specifically asking how not to fall for that archetype its not a very good recomendation.
u wot
Most superheroes and Riders got over it very quickly and just went on to use their powers for good.
>>43924923
Honestly, just wing it with the dice pools.
<4 Shit
5-7 Decent (2-4 level in all stats involved, or focused specialist.)
8-10 Pretty damn good (4-5 in both attributes and skills and/or good specialisations)
11-12 World Class (Maxed out stats, and specs)
13+ Supernatural
>>43924986
>Most superheroes
no
>Riders
There are very few Riders that actually even qualify for Deviant status past the Showa era, and even then, not even all of them. That said, even 1 and 2 had trouble after the fact. The Spirits depiction of 2 is of a troubled guy trying to hide his scars for the sake of the kids.
>>43925005
"average" is supposed to be 3, actually. 2 in attribute, 1 (basic competence) in skill. 2 in skill is supposed to be the low end of "trained professional", for some reason.
>>43924830
Go with 'govt. experiment who thinks that, apart from the MiB hunting her, this is the best thing to ever happen to her'.
>>43923871
The lack of Lodges info is sort of my fault, in that I was too successful persuading Stew and so Lodges ended up getting assigned space and word count in a supplement rather than getting a blog article hammered out about them :p
I'm doing everything I can, albeit everything I can do is currently just asking Stew to give some spoilers/teasers about what is coming out when :)
>>43924830
We have rules for Deviant?
>>43925181
>Lodges ended up getting assigned space and word count in a supplement rather than getting a blog article hammered out about them
Doesn't that technically mean fewer people will have access to Lodge info, in that it's now "anyone who buys this supplement" as opposed to "anyone who checks out this free blog post at any time"?
>>43925214
I think more people buy the books than read the blogs.
>>43925247
Is that still the case now that the only place you can find the books is on the Internet?
>>43924463
I'm a Canadian as well.
If it makes you feel any better, I was a hair's breath away from being lynched for disagreeing with a woman's notion that rape in Canada should be met with the death penalty.
>>43925281
>Anything being met with the death penalty
America is rubbing off on our hat.
>>43925214
Sure, probably, but then:
1) The same is true of any game content that goes into a published work but obviously that's pretty important for the business to keep, well, businessing.
2) This way I do actually get paid for the design work on Lodge. Now, you might well think 'you selfish greedy sod' in response to that, but it also means that the content in question gets more time with Stew working on making sure it fits into Werewolf, it getting redlined and edited, and it generally getting a better and more professional treatment. I can actually justify spending longer on it, writing more than I might have otherwise written because I've been given the wordcount to do so, and writing up a set of sample Lodges with actual hours I've set aside for paid work rather than blitzing through it off-the-cuff when I have the spare time. My only complaint about doing Lodges the 'official' way is that obviously there also needs to be a word *limit* on standard Lodge write-ups, and I'd love if it were another 500 words or so higher per Lodge than it's ended up being since I could get a load more in with that wordcount.
That said, I really *should* get that (free, unpaid) blog piece for Gift design finished.
>>43924855
I forgot about you, so I'll do this tomorrow.
>>43925434
Looking forward to the Gift design post! Been meaning to get my hands dirty with homebrewing some Werewolf stuffand that'll be a big help.
>>43925434
Also, once the main Lodge rules are out in a supplement, I might then be able to persuade Stew to let me put up other Lodge write-ups on the blog for free.
>>43925184
If we do, it'll save me a lot of effort.
>>43925622
I'm trying to work out how to cram deviant puns into a reply and I just can't quite make the wordplay work.
>>43923224
The industry should not hire unstable drama seekers for large projects.
Your are a fucking ball of self sabotage and afraid of success. Stick to a 9-5 faggot
Let me be clear. In America a psychiatric patient who tries to be admitted to a hospital and is turned away and then goes on to injure themself/others could be held liable for damages.
If not one but multiple hospitals and medical professionals, all of whom have a job on the line that is in danger of malpractice suits/claims turn away a patient that "admits self for a suicide attempt". Then the medical professionals have deemed the threat not credible.
Ie the patient is just a crybaby and not serious.
Hyperbole like "my insurance will not cover a chopper" further proves the attention seeking behavior of the crybaby. Likely the psychological problem is in part narcissistic behavior but that is pure speculation.
>>43925796
That's a long way to say "nothing of value was lost".
>>43925635
You mean, you are trying to device them?
>>43925181
>Chris Allen
>The lack of Lodges info is sort of my fault
Burn the witch!
>>43925635
Switch it up and turn it into a dirty limerick.
>>43923399
>Actually, the original post was talking about how white people use a term that mocks Japanese speech is racist
How is it mocking Japanese speech? If "waifu" is mocking Japanese speech by taking back an English word that's become Japanese, then "anime" is also racist for the same reason.
wife (English) -> waifu (Japanese) -> waifu (English)
animation (English) -> anime (Japanese) -> anime (English)
It's a completely bullshit argument trying to find hatred where there is none. Didn't anyone tell this insecure bitchbaby that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?
>>43926826
>Burn the witch!
How do you know that he is a witch?
>>43926935
He turned me into a werewolf!
>>43922257
does this "greywalker" have anything to do with the game of the same name i fortunately didnt back on kickstarter because it is probably never coming out?
>>43926960
A Werewolf?
>>43926922
>How is it mocking Japanese speech? If "waifu" is mocking Japanese speech by taking back an English word that's become Japanese, then "anime" is also racist for the same reason.
As much as I don't think waifu is damaging in any way, this is a ridiculous argument. The Japanese incorporating the word "wife" into their language is no different from any other language incorporating loan words: Cafe, Shampoo, Manga, etc. "Waifu" however is an intentional mimickry of the Japanese pronunciation, a practice with its roots in racism against the Japanese during WWII, though in this case it's not *quite* so insidious and is more equivalent to our usage of the word "Engrish" (though people debate the usage of that word as well).
Ded franchise
s2 never
>>43927021
I bet you're fun at parties.
>>43927081
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of Monty Python.
>>43924191
Son this is a White Wolf thread. Where do you think you are.
>>43925184
>>43925622
Of course we do! Observe, from the secret Onyx Path files, so secret not even developers see them:
RULES FOR DEVIANT
1. Make a WoD 2e Mortal character as normal.
2. Apply template: write down your Sick Mutation
3. Anytime you use a Cool Power, roll Resolve+Composure while making a sound effect, to let your ST know you are using it. The ST will grant bonus and malus successes based on:
-The spontaneity of the power
-How loud you made the power sound
-How gross the power sounds based in the sound effect used.
Once the roll is complete, the player must describe what happens in uncomfortable, forum RP post-like detail.
Repeat as needed until conspiracy collapses.
>>Read thread wanting to get updated on WoD.
>>End up in the middle of a debate about racism and freedom of speech.
Never. Fucking. Change.
So I'm contemplating including WoD elements in my Fireborn campaign and I'm uncertain of this course of action. The idea behind fireborn is basically in the Mythic Age 30k or so years ago someone punched a hole in reality causing "Karma" the force behind magic. (basically Mana, you use it to cast spells) to leak out of reality. The idea being that afterwards there was no magic. I think I'll tweak it to make magic weak during that period and have the events that lead to the campaign kicking off (the hold getting plugged) becoming the Gehenna/Apocalypse that was feared by oWoD factions and presumably is feared by the nWoD factions that I'm unfamiliar with.
One stumbling block here is that this makes the Scions (yes I know that's the name of a setting about gods choosing people to be Grecian heroes like Hercules and Achilles but powered by various gods) powered by beings that predate pretty much every faction in the WoD. It won't matter that much I suppose, the game has built in flashback mechanics wherein the PCs relive some of their lives as Dragons in the Mythic Age, the more they do this the more dragon powers they get. Which leaves me as a GM balancing Modern Age adventures with Mythic Age. I'm sort of left pondering whether or not I should try to incorporate WoD stuff since the PCs will have serious firepower and scaling going for them. It appeals to me because the Kindred, Lycans, and Mages are gonna be seeing the apocalypse happening, the end of everything they've known where as the PCs are the vanguard of a lost age doing everything they can to recover What Was.
I dunno, some opinions from you guys couldn't hurt, feel free to call me a faggot.
>>43924773
>When "Bad taste" is "trying to tell victims of gun violence that guns aren't the problem", I'd say that yes, that's the kind of thing that shouldn't be allowed. Freedom of speech is not the guarantee of a platform.
>When "Bad taste" is "trying to tell victims of nigger violence that niggers aren't the problem"...
>When "Bad taste" is "trying to tell victims of spic violence that spics aren't the problem"...
See where I'm going with this?
>>43927242
Guns aren't a protected class in America. I mean, not in the same way at least. They also aren't people. I hope you understand this. People are complicated, guns are not.
Saying hey, we should ban black people because they are killing our kids (a hypothetical example) is not a real solution, no matter how much some might like it to be, hence that would just be hate speech (again, because black people are humans and should be treated as such).
Guns however can be banned because they aren't humans and they can't feel hurt or oppressed because they aren't human beings suffering from the long term effects of a racist history and a complex socioeconomic situation.
I hope you are following this.
>>43927063
>"Waifu" however is an intentional mimickry of the Japanese pronunciation, a practice with its roots in racism against the Japanese during WWII
It's a reference to Azumanga Daioh! The speaker is comparing themselves to Kimura.
>>43924823
The discipline explicitly says that the user can't be rude to its opponent for it to work though.
Composure and presence counld be mostly understoon as subtle body language, so you could fluff it by saying that, upon successful use, your every movement during the fight connotates an undeniable superiority to your opponent.
Now, were you to translate manipulation to dexterity (specially when done so to calculate defense) or socialize to weaponry, I believe the usual "you fight like a cow" banter ensues.
>>43927403
But he is just saying the word wife. He is Japanese. His pronunciation is Japanese, but he is just saying wife.
We are not saying wife. We are making fun of his accent.
>>43927454
The subtitles beg to differ.
So I'm starting a Hunter campaign soon about a group of highschoolers who begin encountering the supernatural in their community, and have to juggle the stress of being amateur monster hunters with all the drama of being highschool students. I know it sounds ridiculous—I'm intending to use it as a somewhat less serious way to introduce some new players to WoD before I bring them into the fold of my more experienced play group.
Anyway: any ideas for the sort of supernatural entities these characters might run into? I'm looking to create scenarios that offer the opportunity both for hilarious highschool hijinx and serious, scary or emotional moments—but I'll probably be doing a sort of monster-of-the-week format for the game, so I've got plenty of room to experiment.My apologies if this isn't edgy enough for /wodg/.
>>43927475
No they don't... they're doing the thing I said.
>>43927380
First, to the consternation of many, firearms are indeed specifically protected in the Constitution in the Second Amendment. See also the Heller and McDonald Supreme Court decisions.
Second, the USA doesn't recognize "hate speech" as a crime or even civil violation, the term is really only used in limited circumstances in American jurisprudence in connection with criminal sentence enhancements connected with other recognized crimes, and its still very controversial among American jurists.
And third, unlike much of Europe and Canada, the USA similarly doesn't recognize any free speech exceptions just because such speech concerns racial or other minorities or because some may find it offensive.
American near universally believe that the response to "bad" speech is more speech, and we don't want government bureaucrats determining what ideas we can or cannot legally discuss.
>>43927533
>any ideas for the sort of supernatural entities these characters might run into?
Slender man. Kids freak out over that dude. Sprinkle in a cursed item and a couple ghosts for good measure. Maybe give them all a shared dream so they know they're all connected because they touched the item or saw the thing or whatever. ezpz you got this.
>>43927533
>Everything floats down here.
>>43927539
Yeah we know all that. No one is arguing otherwise.
I'm just saying that there's a reason people don't think of talking out against guns as the same as talking out against people, and it's dumb to act like they're the same thing anywhere except under the law.
>>43927533
steal a page from Rick and Morty Coach Feratu, a suspiciously named vampire coach who is killing people.
monsters in the sewers is a classic.
one of the local athletes is juicing, but his product isn't steroids it's Lycan hormones and he's moved on from raping girls to eating them.
that spooky kid who says he can talk to ghosts isn't lying.
a get together at the local graveyard by some goths turns tragic when zombies enter the scene.
>>43927452
>Composure and presence counld be mostly understoon as subtle body language, so you could fluff it by saying that, upon successful use, your every movement during the fight connotates an undeniable superiority to your opponent.
So kiiiiiind of like this?
>The discipline explicitly says that the user can't be rude to its opponent for it to work though.
Well I guess.
Also, this is a funky discipline either way and one of the reasons I love isolated VtR/VtM bloodlines/clans. There's just so many interesting things there.
>>43927533
Watch seasons 1-3 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, because that's pretty much what your premise is. You've got vampires, werewolves, and monsters of the week from invisible loner chicks to mummies to mantis women. The Watchers are basically the Hunters, only they've got a little supernatural mojo on their side in the form of the Slayer. Witches in BtvS are basically Mages but more limited in what they can do.
For additional inspiration there's a pretty decent BtvS game out there, I have a physical copy but no pdf. The magic system is simple but flexible and geared for lower-powered characters, just in case any of your players want to dabble in the supernatural.
Pic related is the cover, I couldn't find a larger resolution version.
>>43923211
>Wait, ambulances cost money in the states?
Yup. And yet people STILL call them for stupid shit like "I need to get to the grocery store".
>>43927380
Ok then, how about this?
>When "Bad taste" is "trying to tell victims of D&D satanism that D&D isn't the problem"
>When "Bad taste" is "trying to tell victims of video game violence that video games aren't the problem"
>When "Bad taste" is "trying to tell victims of 4chan hacking that 4chan isn't the problem"
My point is that it's a moral imperative to allow offensive speech. Just because someone is offended by it, doesn't mean it's wrong. When you get to the point where you justify censorship according to someone's arbitrary feelings, you allow whoever controls public opinion to silence whichever minority they so see fit.
>>43927229
Just stick to the setting as is. There's plenty enough to do with "FUCK YOU I'M A DRAGON" without throwing in another setting into the mix.
>>43927454
Yes, but "waifu" doesn't exist as a word specifically made to make fun of the nips. We have other words for that. You can't simply omit the intentionality of the speaker here, since words don't really mean anything by themselves. It's a word used mostly to liken oneself to the sort of ugly nerd that can't develop succesful relationships. And, as we all know, that sort of person exists on a global scale.
The word is not racist because of its precedence. We needed a term for this sort of concept and a japanese voice actor happened to say it in such a way that is not a complete homophone to "wife", which has other connotations entirely. If you want to analize that word from a political point of view, you'll go much further talking about how it tells a story of idealized people and gender roles.
Plus, making fun of people's accents is always great. I mean, have you even heard Shigeru Miyamoto speak english? Or Reggie Fils-aime talk in japanese on that one video? Shit's hysterical.
>>43927684
Maybe, but the line must be drawn somewhere. If I remember correctly it is a criminal offence to shout "Fire!" in a movie theatre when there's no fire. Threats of violence and murder are also punishable, as can be pressuring someone to commit suicide. You can likewise be prosecuted for spreading lies in voice or print if they result in defaming a person's character. When your words present a possible danger to the well-being or livelihood of an individual then they can be punishable.
Goddamn this thread is awful
I've seen some bad cabin fever in my day, but the lack of releases is really hitting you guys hard
>>43927021
...I got better.
>>43927722
>Plus, making fun of people's accents is always great
Hey man, I'm pedantic as fuck and I'm just here to call out false analogies. I don't really think waifu is damaging at all. It's not the same as ching chonging and the ww2 shit because of context.
I don't know about making fun of accents being the funniest thing that happens, but I don't think it's a problem usually. Maybe it's because I don't have an accent anyone makes fun of.
>>43927812
>I've seen some bad cabin fever in my day, but the lack of releases is really hitting you guys hard
WoD should just release a politics based splat where you can play different kinds of liberals and fight against the various strains of conservative ideology. Obviously you can play the conservatives against the bleeding heart liberals if your ST allows.
Sort of like people who want to play the Pure for some reason. "I mean, if you look at it from their perspective, they're kinda right!"
>>43927698
ehhhh, there's a reason the setting didn't take off. One of the reviews for it calls it "A White Wolf game that was censored" and that very much suits the tone.
and honestly, no there's not much to "fuck you, I'm a dragon." As it stands the setting canon states that from the Mythic Age to the Modern age there's no constant magic, no vampires, no lycans etc because magic was on a low ebb and these things couldn't exist. All the stuff is coming back recently. Most "magic came back" settings pull a shadowrun and go 100 years in the future and having it be maybe 5 years into magic coming back leaves the amount of stuff I have to work with very, very small. Especially since one of the truisms the setting assumes from the get go is "only london has magic at the moment" because that's where it starts in the modern age. I suppose it's assumed that putting in the flashbacks balances it out but as it stands my caste of rogues to throw at my PCs consists of:
Werewolves trying to recover the corpse of a dragon who created them 30k years ago, they're murderous assholes.
Mages who weave spells that create taint, negative karma that creates eldritch monstrosties. They do this in slums and it creates a negative environment that promotes human misery.
The Freemasons, who ironically despite being powerful on a mundane political scale have no magic and are desperate for more magic.
LN7, a secret organization that somehow managed to recover enough magical lore over 100 years and put it into practice despite magic not being A Thing for around 5 years.
Those Who Dwell Below, Shapeless eldritch horrors who want to pollute the world with Taint, negative Karma basically and drive everyone hopelessly insane.
Other Scions maybe.
Returning Fae who are cultural mimics.
Inexplicable magical races that somehow survived to the present day despite the book explicitly stating magical beings died out because lolnomagic.
shit needs some work man.
>>43927812
December is supposed to be the Big Month of releases and annoucements, if you'll believe the Monday Morning Notes. Hopefully they're right and that the old fireman's saying applies: when there's no small fires, expect an inferno. Personally I think it's time to stop WoD General until there's another major release. November's summary of releases was just shirts!
>>43927574
>>43927593
>>43927611
>>43927646
Man, your guys' suggestions are even campier than I was expecting, but I think you've given me some stuff I can work with. I unfortunately haven't gotten around to checking out Rick and Morty OR Buffy the Vampire Slayer, so I'll make sure those are on my watch list.
Mostly, though, I want to aim for supernatural encounters that naturally involve the NPCs and not just the player characters, at the very least putting their relationships with their peers at stake if not their lives.
e.g. What do you do when you think that one of your friends is the victim of a possession? Or how do you proceed when you discover that someone you care about has garnered the attention of some otherworldly creature, but the relationship actually seems like a positive one, and you're torn between the fact that you want to protect your friend from the monsters out there and the fact that they just seem genuinely happy with the situation?—Shit like that is what I'm going for.
>>43927800
Right, but none of those things depend on the person being offended. They're all harmful in ways that affect more than a person's feelings.
The words themselves do not present a danger to the well being of anyone. Those words are illegal because they directly lead to scenarios which present a physical or monetary danger to people. Shouting Fire desensitizes people to legitimate threats. Threats of murder lead to physical retaliation in perceived self-defense. Defaming of character causes monetary losses.
Being offended by something because you believe it's immoral/harmful to society/oppressive does not present any physical or monetary danger to anyone.
>>43928013
One of the girls being Possessed is possessed by the ghost of a girl she and her friends goaded into suicide.
The girl is honestly a nicer, healthier, more functional person and her family and (new) friends like her more like this.
A local vampire has adopted a girl who lost her family in a car accident, she's a friend of one of the PCs and after the vampire kills some passing vagrants during feeding questions of her safety are raised but it seems her new parent is genuinely loving and interested in raising her and giving her a healthy life.
>>43927917
>WoD should just release a politics based splat where you can play different kinds of liberals and fight against the various strains of conservative ideology. Obviously you can play the conservatives against the bleeding heart liberals if your ST allows.
Beast.
>Sort of like people who want to play the Pure for some reason. "I mean, if you look at it from their perspective, they're kinda right!"
They're right, they just need to get over it. It's like Brits blowing up American property because they're still butthurt about the war of independence. Or maybe Indians blowing up brits in retaliation for the colonial times would be a better example.
Yes killing Father Wolf was petty, no they really need to MOVE. THE. FUCK. ON.
>>43928096
>Implying the Hunter's Paradise won't return any day now
laughingpure.jpg
>>43928096
Oh is that what beast is about? Sounds like I was right to skip it.
>>43928186
Nah, that is what being a person discussing Beast is like.
>>43928068
This is great. Thank you, sir.
>>43928096
Beast was more "petty revenge fantasy" in general than specifically political. It sort of had that feel originally, but was still very much a "You are a mythic monster that victimizes people" thing until the rewrite, and then it became "Horribly mutilate people for petty crimes".
Beast: The Primordial: For when you look at old Saxon and Mesopotamian law and think "... Fuck it, those guys had it right."
>>43926984
It's a series of nine novels about a Seattle private investigator who gets beaten to death by a relatively routine client and comes back to life from her 2 minute clinical death to learn that she can interact with The Grey, the magical state of the dead that ghosts exist in and vampires and whitches tap into.
Basically she can move through a combined Twilight/Shadow. I'm on book four now, and she's learning that her relatively mundane, if troubled, history as a Hollywood dancer with an overdramatic mother trying to live vicariously through her was actually more than she thought it was. It's pretty good, especially since book three was a bunch of meandering bullshit of talking to hobos and indians and then finally fighting a big dumb monster before having a confrontation with another big dumb monster and winning because a hobo army beat up the big bad Salish ogress when she attacked the main character during a sort of negotiation.
Good ideas right from the start, though, and Greywalkers would fit well in WoD. The way peering into the Grey is described is quite a lot like Prime Mage Sight, where Harker sees thrumming lines of glowing energy colours.
>>43927539
>The US doesn't do this thing people are arguing it should
Well Gee...
>>43927242
That you're racist?
>>43927684
But the issue with everything you said is that guns are objects specifically designed to kill people. We also have clear evidence that statements like "if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" is untrue. We can point to Australia and their zero mass shootings and say "hey, that thing people are suggesting works". But that doesn't matter, because as much as Righties like to argue otherwise, they're just as much Feels Not Reals as they claim Lefties are (more so, really), and FEEL they should keep their guns. And the penny. And unfair bias in favour of Christianity. And all those other things Conservatives love.
>>43927475
Those aren't even subtitles, that's just a caption.
>>43928270
I love that there's a part in Beast core where a Mummy, the splat where you are encouraged to play according to Stone Age morality and ethics, says "I don't think you guys are really relevant to anything anymore."
>>43925434
What I really want out of a supplement, if I'm buying a whole thing for z-splats, is tools to make my own Lodge, or Bloodline, or Legacy. White Wolf has this awful habit of saying, "Hey make your own thing!" and giving incredibly vague instructions on a fair way to do that.
Just a rough outline would be nice.
>>43928329
That does sound rather funny.
>>43927533
>>43928013
>a Hunter campaign soon about a group of highschoolers who begin encountering the supernatural in their community, and have to juggle the stress of being amateur monster hunters with all the drama of being highschool students.
I've tried that like five times. I ran a mildly successful Geist game with the premise. I love the Buffy premise of "you're high schoolers but secretly dealing with the WoD!"
Gonna add that the first half season of Bleach is also good, before they decided to fuck off with humanity all together and go to Namek. Back when Ichigo was just doing the whole Temporary Grim Reaper thing as a night job because he broke Rukia's ankle. Or was that an episode of Family Guy? Either way, I based my Sin-eater Soul Reapers game on that part, ostensibly. Though there was more teacher being a former murderer and serial killer and evil undead warlock stuff.
>>43927812
https://youtu.be/CHNJPsCDSqo
>>43927917
I knew someone who thought the Pure were right and would bend over backwards to justify it. She also failed to understand why Brave New World is not a eutopia.
>>43928403
At least with a Mummy there's a potential to learn and change, even if it may take centuries for it to stick. Beasts have to cling to ancient lessons much like Heroes have to cling to classic monster slaying, because otherwise they're just assholes and murderers with no purpose in the world and superpowers.
>>43928354
>White Wolf has this awful habit of saying, "Hey make your own thing!" and giving incredibly vague instructions on a fair way to do that.
Sometimes not even that. Like Interlocks.
The real problem, I think, is that in a lot of ways the people writing the books don't know or understand the actual rules of the game, which makes that kind of "do it yourself" thing not work.
This is why I don't actually like Mirrors that much.
