>>43905401
The Emps can die, then return as Magnus holds the Astronomican. Great crusade goes on in the webway and the legions split into chapters due to the HH and the increasing number of threats.

Wasn't an entire legion of psychers. A lot more than most, and well integrated into combat doctrine and command. So they're going to be powerful as fuck.

Probably just means tzeentch gets the raven guard, playing on their mutations/secretive stuff (double just as planned via alpha legion), or the white scars because they have sorceress and are wild and inconsistent like the winds.

>>43905462
White Scars maybe(Though I lean no), Raven Guard naaaah, Corax too much a bro to go chill with Chaos frat douches.

>>43905462
Tzeentch would still get at least half the legion, Ahriman will eventually break and try to fix the flesh change. So either their curse turns them into a legion with limited life span or Ahriman rebels against the primarch and curses their legion as well, probably breaking the legion in half.

>>43905476

>too much of a bro
>to chill with frat

buh do you even words?

But for serious, its chaos, I don't gotta explain shit. Corax already went pretty hard heresy trying to improve on the emperor's creations and accidentally a bunch of mutant freaks he had to lock away in a tower. Thematically works too with birds, prison planet and labyrinths/secrets.

>>43905485
>>43905462
>>43905401
Far less than half-psychic. The only ones who survived the flesh change were the Librarians.

That aside, even if they were on the Imperial side, it's unlikely that you're going to make any change in the perception of psykers and mutants.

Now the question is, can Magnus power the Astronomican by himself? Does he still require the same daily sacrifice of unfit psykers in the choir? In that case, nothing changes; the Black Ships still cull the population. (Even if he doesn't need them, they still probably cull the population, because even Magnus knows that unsanctioned psykers are a threat to everyone and everything.)

>>43905401
He's still outed for the powers and is murdered by the retard

>>43905485
Or they manage to pull a blood ravens and fix the fleshchange, or at least reduce the severity somehow.

>>43905507
Bro do you even praise the emperor.

Also even if Corax is up to shady shit, doesn't mean he's going to fall. ALL the Primarchs got up to some questionable things. Also the whole concept of 'one legion doesn't fall to chaos so another takes it's place' is pretty ehhhhh.

>>43905549
What did Guiliman and Vulkan and Dorn do that would count as "questionable"?

>>43905549

Can't fight fate, its the grim darkness of the 31/41st millennium. Motherfuckers can't even look at a funny painting without falling to chaos.

Also things have to be somewhat balanced and static so there's a constant setting to sell plastic mens with.

>>43905585
Imperium Secundus for guilleman. Dorn, ehhh, being a asshole I guess? Fairs fair with Vulkin though. Guy was a bro's bro.

>>43905602
That's boring though. Except for the painting, because that's canon and the concept of losing ones soul to art is hilarious on this weird meta level.

>>43905614
>Imperium Secundus
Interesting. I wasn't aware of that, and it looks like the novel is worth checking out.
Also
>xenos technology for warp navigation without navigators
that's some heresy right there

>>43905614

Fates being sealed doesn't have to mean boring. Warhammer 40k is the build up to the end of the universe, humans are tragically flawed creatures beset on all sides, they're going to lose, we're all going to hell. Its where and how people act despite this, or in the face of it that their character is revealed. Makes for interesting stuff to me in a greek tragedy way but ymmv.

>>43905640
Tragedy is one reason for coming to 40K, I guess. But in general I prefer the more...I dunno, dramatic bits, like epic wars being fought, great heroes defeating a daemon of chaos, stuff like that, and having 'it's all pointless and nothing you do matters' kinda reduces that fuzzy feeling in the back of my skull that lights up when I'm reading something suitably epic.

>>43905537
I though the psykers were fed to the big E. To power the golden throne. To keep Big E. Alive while he focuses on the astronomican.

We once had a thread about Nobledark 40k.

In that the Emperor was one half of Statler and Waldorf Eldrad was the other one so none of the primarchs actually fell to chaos.

In that one Magnus broke up his legion in accordance with Fulgrim's recommended reforms. From the extra K-sons were founded the Grey Knights, Exorcists and Blood Ravens.

Prospero still got wrecked by pissed off Chaos Marines during the onset of the Long War. Because 1 in 50 people had psychic abilities they knew this was going to happen years in advance and moved to Terra. Erebus burned a more or less empty world and Terra has a truly disproportionately large breeding population of psychics. Psychic talent and training become Terra's biggest export.

Magnus becomes High Lord of Psychic Concerns on the Imperial Council and stays on Terra performing Soul Bindings and training high powered psychics.

In 999M41 he was training the Apex Twins. Or at least trying to.

My main flaw is that Magnus didn't fall, he was stolen. Every event involved a conscious decision to go against the imperium... Unless your Magnus. His inability to live without knowing the future while his flawed gene seed children continue to mutate to garbage because the hand his father delt him (not by his fault) then cornered into a sacrifice yourself at Russ feet vs the drive to live is too strong.

Magnus was destined to become a chaos prince. He never had to submit, he was a puppet from the moment he had consciousness before a body. He's always been a ragdoll on the currents of chaos

>>43905401
If magnus never fell, it depends on why?

If when he breached the psychic barriers on terra to warn the emperor also left him a message about horus and the emperor believed it?

Space Wolves and most like thousand sons would have been recalled to terra to help against Horus fleet. Battle would be much shorter and Horus may try the same shit with lowering his shields. But with extra primarch back up it may have gone differently, even if it didn't, if everything ended up like it does in 40k... then Magnus could sit in the golden throne and the emperor could be reborn

Just have Russ not be a tard and just arrest the Thousand Sons and bring them back to Terra. They can sit in jail cells until Horus rebels, and then they can join the fight against him.

>>43906482
I can just imagine Magnus when the Emperor, or more likely, one of his custodeus, comes to open the cell door.

>I tried to tell you daddies boy was going to betray us
Yup
>And, by my amazing psychic abilities of not being a fookan retard, I'm going to guess that Horus has betrayed us
Yup.
>And now it's all hands on deck "oh Magnus please help get us out of this shit we got into for not listening to you".
Yup.
>Do you think I'm going to get an apology when all this is over?
Nope.
>It's that sort of attitude of his that got us into this problem
Yup.
>You and me Mr Valdor, I think we might be the last two sane people left on this planet
Yup.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Magnus had made a pact with an unspecified 'entity' and lost an eye as part of the pact. It was hinted that this 'entity' was actually Tzeentch himself. That would mean that he was doomed from that point forward.

>>43907613
The Emperor made some sort of pact with some sort of entity to make the primarchs. That would mean that he was doomed from that point forward.

Then he did it again because he's fucking retarded or something.

>>43905640
So, no way humanity is going to survive?

>>43905640
If Legacy of Kain taught me anything its that you don't accept the world is dying until its ashes have cooled.

And then you go back and you do it all again. Only harder.

And you keep on raging against the dying of the light until you win.

It might take several round trips of eternity but eventually you will win. You just have to keep on going powered by hate and pride and so long as you are not dead the world still has a chance.

And if you are dead you claw your way out of the grave and do it all again. But harder and angrier.

IT WAS ALL MAGNUS'S FAULT

>>43905476
>Raven God
>Raven Guard

If the glove fits...

>>43907624
Really?! It was my understanding that he was able to begin his Primarch project after he had conquered the Genewrights of Luna. I don't recall there being a pact that He entered into with entities/chaos gods.

>>43907757
He stole something from the warp to make/improve them. It's why there was a limit cap on how many he could make.

>>43905462
>Probably just means tzeentch gets the raven guard
Not likely, as I understand it, Corax hated Horus as much as Perturabo hated Dorn. I doubt Corax would willingly join Horus' side.

That being said, I think it would have been interesting if the Thousand Sons under Ahriman fell to chaos, but Magnus stayed loyal with a handful of his men, similar to Luther and the Fallen. Magnus could then go on to become the founder of the Grey Knights.

>>43907842
I can see that.

Orders his legion to scrape that paint off their armour. It's dirty colours now. They dress in unadorned grey.

He's done the whole wizard thing now and he sees how close to the edge he got.

Starts to work on refining and streamlining what he can do rather than trying to do other shit.

Becomes more mong than wizard. Becomes austere rather than gaudy.

Due to his knowledge of deamon-lore rivalling, and in some areas maybe surpassing, that of the Emperor he sees the best use of what he knows specializing in the fucking up of deamon shit.

Retires to Titan and starts psyker breeding programs across the Imperium.

Develops the possession therapy where a marine must get possessed and then kick the deamon out by being stronger than it.

Legion retains disproportionate number of psychics. The psykers are formed into elite deamon slayer squads known as Grey Knights in memory of the founders. The mundanes form the bulk of the Legion.

Remains the only Legion not to be broken up after the Reforms due to the fact that nobody else can fuck up deamons like they can and that affords them a bit of tolerance.

Also they are spread out across the whole galaxy so its not like there are many of them in any place anyway.

>>43907985
>mong*

WTF

Pretty sure I typed monk.

>>43907624
>>43907757
>>43907772
The First Heretic explains how the Emporer, beloved by all, went into the warp and asked the four Chaos Gods for help making the Primarchs. They give him the info he needs then basically legs it without offering them something in return, he then proceeds to erect gellar fields around the Primarchs so the, understandably, mad Chaos Gods can't do anything to them, but then Argel Tal is sent through time by a daemon and destroys the gellar field and etc.etc.

>>43909024

That is some really dumb shit.

Why couldn't they just go with the obvious? Emprah adopts various ace generals from around the galaxy as his for official political purposes "sons", gives them gene therapy to be marines, boom. 10000 years of Legends and distortion takes it from there.

>>43905401
ITT:
>If things were different, things would be different.

>>43909024
>hyper intelligent, immortal super being isn't able to create clones without the help of others, let alone the worst possible others.

Most retarded shit ever.

>>43910384
>>43910485
Well, desu the Emp had reached his limit with creating the Custodeus. So, he needed something better. And just making normal humans into super soldiers wouldn't do it either.
He should have made a deal with someone else is the really big problem I see. Chaos just has way too many strings attached to it whether you want to pay or not. Big E just had too much hubris and should have known better to fuck with certain things.

>>43910485
Primarchs aren't straight up clones. Like a fair degree of warp craft went into making them. Straight up clones of the Emperor would probably wind up being closer to Malcadore or maybe Custodes.

>>43907691
>You just have to keep on going powered by hate and pride and so long as you are not dead the world still has a chance.
>And if you are dead you claw your way out of the grave and do it all again. But harder and angrier.
I think you just described what the fuck 'Cipher' has to go though everytime he goes to the Rock. Makes me wonder just how many go arounds that poor fucker has gone though so far. If the latest Dr. Who episode is anything to go by, it could be a bloody fucking lot.

>>43910384
Because that would have required a degree of skill with the writing that BL do not possess.

If I had the skill and the authority the Unification Wars, Great Crusade and HH would have gone something like this

>Emps born to the warlord of the Himalayas.
>Emps is psyker. Not super unheard of on Terra. Is powerful but stable psyker. Given the unstable warp that is rare.
>Eventually inherits the throne.
>Marries the heir to one of the other nations, what ever grew up in the ruins of China maybe. Her dad dies, she hands over authority to Emps to rule in her name. Emps now most powerful man on Terra.
>Takes over Pan-Pacific Empire from mad scientist dude. Offers the scientists a job working for him.
>Starts Thunder Warriors.
>Uses TWs + Legions of followers and mercenaries to start gobbling up more territory.
>Malcador, his little brother, turns out to be a masterful administrator. Emps get the territory and Malcador organizes it and apoints people to run it.
>Eventually all of Terra has joined in the New Imperium, sometimes under conquest, sometimes willingly for protection and trade deals.
>Except Hy Brasil. Too well dug in, too strong an economy. Fuck those guys, deal with them later.
>Time to do something about those constant raids from Mars and Luna and such.
>About halfway through the conquest of the Luna City States he starts on the Astartes Project.
>By end of Luna Campaign the first 5,000 batch of Space Marines are done. Start to phase out old glitchy TWs for more reliable SMs.
>Take one look at Mars and decide to go around it and go after the Jovian Orbitals and Jovian Moon Colonies.
>Rebellion from one of the old Warlords. Some of the old TWs on his side. Stomp it flat.
>Eventually you control all of the imports and exports of Mars because you own everything as far as the Oort Cloud. Mars, not being self sufficient, decides to willingly join the Imperium
>Hy Brasil still giving the middle finger by existing independently.

>>43911176
>Just as Emps about to do something about it the Warp calms down drastically.
>Turns all that force outwards. Time to reunite humanity.
>Find that most of humanity is either made up of twisted horror show monsters or enslaved by twisted horror show monsters.
>Also the Eldar Empire is fucking gone. Just gone. Holy Shit.
>Start to bring worlds under your rule. Most of them willing. Most of them too primitive to say no and mean it.
>Liberating many worlds from FOOKIN ORKS! Holy shit so many orks.
>At this point certain generals start to stand out. Some of them SMs some of them human even a couple of TWs.
>Invent rank of Primarch to distinguish top 20 of them as your top generals.
>The human ones are too old to become SMs. Make them half-astartes with limited gene-forging and discreet cybernetics.
>Everything is chugging along nicely. Get some clever psychic bastard from the Ural Mountains to invent the Astronomican.
>Then get shit choked by big angry ork. Retire from Warlording.
>Go back to Terra. Longevity and Rejuvenating treatments will only take you so far. Time to retire from warlording.
>Time to fade away. Time to tend old house and garden and hang up sword.
>BOOM Chaos time futhermuckers!
>Holy shit you didn't actually believe there really was Chaos gods.
>You knew warp fumes rotted the brain and laws of physics but holy shit those things are real!
>Half you top generals are possessed or corrupted or something
>Civil war like holy shit fuck shit fuck shit.
>End up in personal duel for the soul of all mankind against the man you would have made Emps II.
>Win. Barely. Mortally wounded.
>Malcador takes your place. Rules for another 200 years.
>Constantine Valdor takes his place.
>And another takes his place always in your name. Always with your name.
>10,000 years of Best Korea propaganda later and we have the Imperium we know and know.

>>43907991
Commit to it

>>43910384
>that doesn't make any sense
>why didn't they retcon everything even harder to make all the primarchs normal dudes, contrary to all the fluff the existed prior to that point.
The problem with the Emperor in the HH series is that he's a moron that drove multiple legions to Chaos by being a hypocritical asshole. That's the biggest thing that needs fixed.

>>43911176
>>43911355
>The entire universe is ridiculous and over the top as all hell
>You want to make the Imperium more Mundane
You're a god damn moron

>>43912893
40k is no more or less mundane in this version.

>>43907648

The idea is that not only is it not going to survive, but its going to twist itself into a monster just as bad as its opponents trying.

>Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment