This is how I BBEG.
How do you BBEG, /tg/?
That only works if the PCs are horrible terrible people.
>>43859678
So... most of the times?
>>43859658
This is how I bbeg
this is how I warforged
>>43859658
OP do you BBEG Raoh?
>>43859708
Did literally nothing wrong>>43859658
Did literally nothing wrong either
This is how I BBEG.
Weird, just played LISA a few minutes ago.
It's a sign....to take more joy
>>43859809
Gotta get it all down in your heart.
>>43859766
literally wrong
This is how I Minion
This is how I BBEG
This is how I BBEG
this is how i BBEG
This is how I BBEG.
>>43859658
II usually don't. BBEGs are shit writing.
>>43859658
>>43860495
Joyful Buddy is CE as fuck, otherwise that's pretty accurate I'd think
>>43859899
You absolute madman
>>43859899
This is quite possibly the best thing I've ever read
>>43860495
Brad's CN. He tries to be good, but falls short due to his many, many issues. Shocklord, or some of the other companions would be better candidates for CG. Also, the Hernandez brothers would collectively make for better LN characters than Tooley, I think.
>>43859899
10/10. I can't believe I haven't read this one before
>>43859899
Always a great read. GM tried something similar to this one on us once, except our Astropath got lucky and turned him inside out and the Rogue Trader put four barrels of Manstopper slugs into him at the same time right as we burst open the door to his retreat.
The GM was not exactly pleased we deleted his recurring villain in a single session.
Still 10/10 and a really great style of villain to try.
>>43860331
>BBEG
but that's just a pawn of the BBEG, or the BEG trying to bring the BBEG back to life
This is how Ideal with pesky party members
>>43862415
It's implied that Chara is only such a horrific eldritch monster because Frisk influenced him by himself being a genocidal psychopath.
>>43860039
But neither one of those two are BBEG materialunless your making a 7 hells campaign where the demons have to stop Terrorblade from stealing the macguffins of the hells
>>43861714
Whenever I read that story I always get the creeping feeling that they didn't get everything. That sometime, maybe sometime far in the future, the other shoe was going to drop.
Only in the planning stages(ie, Im too lazy to finish it), but my planned BBEG is using a ritual to place copies of his mind inside swords, which are then sent out as gifts to the royalty in key areas.
The magic would then infect the minds of those nearby, turning them basically into copies of the BBEG. The new-BBEGs would then get another set of swords to arm the militia and armies with which, while they won't make more BBEGs, will make them loyal to the BBEGs.
The main reason is so the party can fight the BBEG and kill him without affecting anything. Then get slowly more frustrated as the guy they just beheaded keeps turning up all fine, until they reach him for the 4th or 5th time, and then three copies of the BBEG burst into the room behind them.
inb4 Nox
>>43861190
>Brad's CN. He tries to be good, but falls short due to his many, many issues.
He starts as CG and slowly slides downward to CN. Similarly buddy starts as CN and slides down to CE.
>Shocklord, or some of the other companions would be better candidates for CG.
Agreed. Shocklord is the only one who flat out refuses to attack at the end. He just sits there crying and waiting for Brad to kill him.
>the Hernandez brothers would collectively make for better LN characters than Tooley, I think.
Everything they do, they do because they want to have sex with a child. They're as far from lawful as it gets.
>>43859766
Agree.
Only wish there was another ending, preferably after a no joy run or something hard.Mutant might be able to defeat and devour certain psychopath for example
>>43862415
>>43863091
IMO, Frisk is a partial reincarnation of that guy.The true BBEG, however, may be implied to be the one that summoned the children in the first place.
>>43865002
>Everything they do, they do because they want to have sex with a child.
That applies to Tardy. The others maintain some semblance of infrastructure, primarily for profit. Hence, lawful neutral.
>>43865282
>implying
i'm still convinced they were legitimately 2 different people inhabiting one body with 2 different souls.
still though i'm curious to see what a sequel would be like, would it follow the natural conclusion of the Genocide run, where you are playing a guy in the ruins of multiple broken universes or what the shit.
>>43865541
It also applies to Fardy if you finish the game with him
>>43859658
by doing
NOTHING
O
T
H
I
N
G
WRONG
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O
N
G
>>43866341
I agree
>>43863091
>>43865282
naw man Chara was always an evil shit
did you miss the part where they died trying topossess their "brother", ascend to godhood, and then genocide humanity?
>>43864266
You think there weren't some technically-true-but-highly-misleading names and stories in his last words?
His final act of vengeance was turning the party into his pawns of evil.
The next few decades 'cleaning up his mess' might seem frustrating because no one knows you're the good guys and the people you're taking out were evil dicks but that's nothing compared to finding out they weren't evil dicks and you aren't the good guys.
um... this is how I evil guy I guess. he's not really a bad guy, just misunderstood. if only my players wouldn't attack him on sight.he genuinely wants to be friends and on the whole is a pretty chill dude
This is how I final confrontations
As a member of the party.
By being the bad guy you love. That evil character that is always saving the party's ass and super reliable, morally broken but not unreasonable enough to warrant any real concern.
The party will do their best they can to keep him alive as they know he's got their back. Then when they've won the day, when their lauded as heroes by lands far and wide and gained unimaginable power, he shows his true colors.
The thing is to keep it as a sort of "This is for the good of the world" also its critical to keep a exhaustive live of the other party member's weaknesses.
It sounds dickish on paper but play it right and a swear you and the rest of the party will have great fun.
![is-wander-the-villain-in-shadow-of-the-colossus-455098[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZBKlypU.jpg "is-wander-the-villain-in-shadow-of-the-colossus-455098[1].jpg")
This is how I BBEG
>>43868906
you turn the player character into the ultimate evil guy by lying about their motives and means throughout the whole session?
in single player artistic vidya that's a cool element but in tabletop you're instantly That GM
>>43867702
in their defense it's hard to be polite to someone when you take SAN damage just from looking at him
>>43860495
Brad isn't good at all.
You could probably get better candidates for true neutral as well.
What would that guy who rides a deer be considered? CN or NE?
>>43870528
I'd say CN. He doesn't do anything particularly evil compared to any other warlords of Olathe, and ultimately he was just tsundere towards Brad rather than malicious and self-serving.
>>43870468
I meant it as a backstory rather than a PC's development
>>43860495
Brad is chaotic evil though. Literally the most evil character in Lisa.
>>43859658
This is how I BBEG
Best BBEG coming through
>>43871144
Das a pretty good BBEG b0ss, story time?
>>43860495
Marty was evil but still tried to redeem himself somewhat at the end. Put the whole Armstrong family in evil and but rando as chaotic good
>>43866043
Fardy is actually just trying to get revenge
>>43871274
Rando is LG as fuck
>>43871263
None really, still world building and haven't gotten a chance to DM, however I would very much like to include such a BBEG, particularly make him one of the Erlkings
>>43859658
>>43860495
Can someone give me a quick run down on Lisa's character?
>>43871506
She's a battered child who goes absolute apeshit at the end of Lisa. She gets so tired of everyone trying to use her she decides that murdering every living person she can is the only answer. Rando sees that she's slipping and also abusing joy and trys to sway her to a more honorable life like he was trying to create in the first place but she snaps and eventually he dies. She just has a huge tantrum and murders everyone she can before turning into a joy mutant.
>>43871506
>Lisa
>Young girl who is abused and raped by her alcoholic father. Commits suicide.
>Brad
>Lisa's brother, a drug-addicted martial artist who finds Buddy and tries to save her from the horrors of a post-apocalyptic male-only world
>Buddy (CN)
>The last girl in the world. Brad's adoptive daughter.In the sequel, due to the effects of Joy and her troubled upbringing, she goes full edgelord and decides to kill everyone to become THE STRONGEST
>Buzzo (NE)
>Warlord who leads a band of Joy addicts. Constantly stalks and torments Brad and tries to make him to take Joybecause he was Lisa's boyfriend and blames Brad for her death
>Rando (LG)
>The strongest warlord. Wants to restore peace to the broken world. Spends most of the game commanding his army to kidnap Buddy so that she could be used to repopulate the world.He is legitimately a good, caring person, and is Brad's adopted son. He wears a mask because Buzzo mutilated his face as revenge on Brad.
>Doctor Yado (LE)
>Buddy's real father and the actual BBEG. The inventor of Joy, the super-drug that turns people into mutants when taken enough. His plan was to conceive a daughter and use her to plunge the womanless world into war, eventually getting everyone hooked on Joy and turned into mutants. Because he wants to fuck joy mutants.
>Marty (CE)
>Lisa and Brad's abusive, alcoholic father.
>Terry (NG)
>The first party member, a depressed but kind-hearted and happy-go-lucky man who spreads gameplay hints across the wastelandto escape his crushing feelings of uselessness and loneliness
>>43859658
This is how I BBEG
>>43859658
nice meme game friend
>>43867702
Who is this?
>>43871728
>He'll never release another album
Why live
>>43871685
>>43871635
Darn it, this game sounds fucked up. I should give it a shot.
>>43871685
I look at it this way: Joy makes you Chaotic Evil. Not because you are necessarily, but it drags OUT the CE shit that's inside of you, and makes it feels like a great fucking time because you're absolutely emotional numb and riding on a high that makes bath salts look like weed.
Anyways yeah, BBEG, this is how ISEND YOU TO HELL
>>43871918
It tries too hard at times (especially the sequel), but it's a legitimate life-ruining experience. The setting and atmosphere are very unique too, it's like a karate B-movie set in a Mad Maxian male-only wasteland condensed into a sidescrolling RPG.
>>43871960
It's also helped immensely by an A+ soundtrack that fits the dysphoria of the setting.
>>43871685
There are some things you left out.
>Lisa
>Young girl who is abused and raped by her alcoholic father. Commits suicide. Had a tendency of manipulating her boyfriend into mutilating animals. Later, made him disfigure her own face so Marty wouldn't molest her anymore. It failed.
>Brad
>Lisa's brother, a drug-addicted martial artist who finds Buddy and tries to save her from the horrors of a post-apocalyptic male-only world. A seriously damaged individual whose protectiveness does more harm than good to Buddy.
>Buddy (CN)
>The last girl in the world. Brad's adoptive daughter. In the sequel, due to the effects of Joy and her troubled upbringing, she goes full edgelord and decides to kill everyone to become the ruler of whoever's left in the post-apoc wasteland. Implied to be encouraged or manipulated by either Buzzo or Yado during this time as well.
>Buzzo (NE)
>Warlord who leads a band of Joy addicts. Constantly stalks and torments Brad and tries to make him to take Joy because he was Lisa's boyfriend and blames Brad for her death. Despite his issues, is the strongest warrior in the wasteland, an accomplished martial artist, and was previously a scientist or researcher who worked with Yado. Most inspiring character in the game.
>Rando (LG)
>The strongest warlord. Wants to restore peace to the broken world. Spends most of the game commanding his army to kidnap Buddy so that she could be used to repopulate the world. He is legitimately a good, caring person, and is Brad's adopted son. He wears a mask because Buzzo mutilated his face as revenge on Brad. He's also a doormat, and had very little control over his army. Implied that he got into martial arts and became physically powerful in an attempt to compensate for his meek personality. Far, far to beautiful for this sinful earth.
>Terry (NG)
>Cheerleader who gets the strongest attack in the game. Do not mess with him.
>>43870468
>evil guy by lying about their motives and means throughout the whole session?
Dormin never lied and he didn't break his word. Mono was brought back to life as he said and there were dire consequences for Wander's actions as he said. Hell, Agro even survived the fall and was brought back to the temple like normal.
If a player made a deal with satan and wasn't punished for it I'd be criticize that guy for being a bad GM and coddling their players.
>>43872082
I don't feel he was even much of a Satan, though. The game makes him out to be some entity of darkness, but remember that this is also the Ico setting, where there's strange persecution and no clear history save what we infer from the POV of who we play as. I thought it was pretty touching that Dormin honored the deal despite everything, it made him feel like a proper lost old god instead of yet another vomit-dull devil who backstabs and cheats because lol evul
>>43872190
To be fair, he said "I can bring her back". And he did. It's just that he didn't explain the ritual.
>>43872376
He also warned of consequence. Hell, for that matter, Wander didn't even truly die or pass on with Dormin, he was reborn with some of Dormin in him as a horned child.
I like it because Wander was in a way your typical PC.
>"Hey PC you want the thing, I get that, hey yo I'm an ancient fucker god, I'ma hook you up but shit's gonna go do-"
>POIUINT ME TO TGHE FUCKINBG GOLEMS YUO PRICK
>"Christ. Follow this flashlight."
![sotc_wander_progress[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/DAJ5BCZ.jpg "sotc_wander_progress[1].jpg")
>>43872437
This, but I like to think that Wander accepted the consequences of the ritual.
Also, I'm not quite sure if Dormin wanted to use Wander's body to make his comeback, I felt that it was closer to a "lemme borrow your body for a sec, I'll take care of it" while fighting the interlopers. Things went to hell when they lost though, but I think that Dormin was exactly evil, he was just upset and wanted to destroy all the people that forsook him, but he kept his word for the one person that gave him a chance.
Thinly veiled references to the players last characters. It's not hard to draw atrocities from PC sources.
>>43872543
*wasn't
>>43871004
Explain yourself.
>>43872813
Brad's motivated entirely by selfishness. No matter which decisions you take, LISA is ultimately a linear game where your character will always be forcing his personal beliefs on a world against him in an effort to take back a girl who by her own judgment and by the judgment of everyone around her is better off outside. He will always end up losing himself in his rage, falling to his own weaknesses, and damning all values for a desire.
No one should ever think Brad's a good guy. He's a villain protagonist.LISA is a good game but it's massively overrated. The execution is fine but it doesn't actually bring anything new to the table and isn't exceptional in any one particular way. I wish people would stop bringing it up everywhere.
>>43873063It may not bring anything *new*, per se, but something I appreciate about it is that it doesn't try to make severe childhood trauma into something sexy.
>>43871307
Revenge for killing a child molester
>>43873063It's not 'new' or unique, it's just done really well. And honestly I prefer a well told story than just one trying to be new or unique and fucking it up
>>43873157
I like it too. I do think it's great. I'm just getting really sick of it showing up all over the place when it has no reason to.
The product is a lot better than the sum of its parts really. There's a lot of stuff that's super cool in game but becomes really weak when examined in a vacuum.
Rando is a great character but if you move him away from LISA, as an archetype he's not that interesting. As a BBEG he needs a setting where someone like him actually is necessary or it opens up a whole lot of issues, and in a campaign scenario it's going to be difficult to rationalize why him and the PCs are fighting. He works in LISA because Buddy's a treasure and Brad's a dick.
Brad's also a really poor point to work from. As a character he's been done countless times before that there's probably an oversized TVTropes listing of examples just labeled "Played Straight". You make any character and have them going around, punching shit and proclaiming that they're right to and you have him down perfect.
If I had to pick a character to port over from LISA, Buzzo would probably the much more practical choice. All you need to run him is a PC to attach to and he's unattached to most of the world so he's easy to play with.
LISA doesn't belong on /tg/ despite people liking it. Not because it's a video game, we have plenty of those, but because it actually doesn't encourage any useful discussion like Wakfu and Nox might, or even shittier games with more versatile settings like League of Legends.
>>43873063
You are right except the whole part where it's 100% reasonable to think that Buddy would be kidnapped, raped and killed the moment she steps outside. Brad is motivated by his childhood trauma in deciding to take Buddy under his wing, sure, but the ONLY moment where he could have turned back knowing Buddy wouldn't be raped and/or killed is the final battles, and that's when the Joy kicked in big time, to no fault of his own. Even when Brad forced Buddy to kill an innocent man in Joyful, he was acting 100% reasonable, because it's a kill or be killed world, a million times so for the only woman on Earth.
Brad did nothing wrong. The problem is that Rando and the crew did nothing wrong either. One wants to protect a child from being ruined or killed. The other wants to save humanity. You could say that Rando's objective outweighs Brad's desire to protect Buddy, but Buddy's own wants don't figure into it. She's an oblivious little shit who didn't know what she wants, and who didn't end up violated or killed only by a miracle.
>>43873424
Actually I found LISA's setting even more interesting than character drama, and very unique. I'd love to run a game based in parts of Olathe the games haven't covered one day.
>>43873569
I enjoyed the concept of Joy addiction eventually causing loss of all sanity and mutation. That shit was whack.
>>43873790
Honestly, the fact that mutations are so sudden and so horrifying (extremely long limbs are fucking awful) makes it even worse.
>>43873424
>doesn't encourage any useful discussion like Wakfu and Nox might
The funny thing about this is that I have no interest in Wakfu specifically because Nox seems trite to me. Then again, all I know about him is that he controls time and wants to get all the EXP in the world so he can rewind everything and bring his family back. I'm sure he's a great character, but I feel the same way about him that you do about Rando.
We pretty much agree about Brad. Damaged Male Action Hero with Poorly Channeled Guilt Issues and Paternal Instinct isn't all that interesting anymore on its own.
I think Buzzo's the bee's knockers, though. Out-and-out sadists are rarely depicted as having any motivation beyond "lol hurting people gets me off", and Buzzo's a nice change from that.
>>43874037
I liked Buzzo in that regard since it tied into the themes of abuse and how it spreads in a viral manner. To Buzzo, mutilation and harm was a form of love as much as it was a punishment. It was how he showed he cared.
>>43873451
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, anon.
Rando's main failure was that he tried to be something he wasn't. He's too meek to be a tough guy who leads by intimidation, but he's got a good conscience and a vision. He could've been scary effective if put more effort into verbally persuading others to see things his way, especially combined with his physical prowess.
>>43874130
It's kind of hilariously sad. Rando was literally too pure for the world.
>>43874088
Also, I think it's important to have a sadist character who's somewhat fleshed out like Buzzo because it means betterrepresentation.
>>43874037
You're doing yourself a disservice by avoiding Nox. Even if you dislike him, there's a very good reason that he's become a /tg/ staple.
As a quick summary, he's enough of a self-contained character that you can insert him into any setting, including ones with no time powers if there're other magics or technology potent enough to undo damages and he takes the classic /tg/ debate of "greater good vs present good" into the next level.
I don't actually like Wakfu as entertainment and I've only seen a few episodes, but it's a great reference overall when putting a campaign together.
>>43873063
>>43873157Be happy, it's either that or more fucking Undertale.
>>43874230
>"greater good vs present good"
I'm still not sold. How does that the greentext factor in at all to Nox? Is he trying to undo some great disaster that also happened to have killed his family or something?
>>43874181
Well sadism sure as hell isn't excusable, even if it is understandable with context. I thought it was pretty strong to show that Buzzo realized he was a sick fuck and why he was, and that his crusade and personal hatreds were utterly useless in the end.
Lisa does something that few other games bother to do, in that it shows you WHY people get fucked up, murderous, and abusive. Because terrible shit happens or is done to you, and it malforms you and your perspective, and you end up doing bad things.
The way I like to put it, Lisa is a game where every character is a BBEG, and the heroes are all long dead and gone, leaving only each other for them to prey on in desperation.
>>43874286The joke here is that I love both games and take inspiration from both for my /tg/-ing. In particular, I'm thinking about a game with an Undertale-like tone, but the lovable characters all have major flaws that make contempt and/or fear reeeaaally easy. Your challenge is to empathize with them anyway, without overlooking the things that make them awful.
>>43874364
I dunno about you, but that's any setting if it's done well and the characters aren't reduced to two-note quips. My own setting has had a lot of success and endearment with the players since I tried hard to provide a town setting with people and relations, and how those people all have their own hangups and issues and unpleasant sides. Some are cowards, others are xenophobic, more are violent or had rough criminal history; some of the PCs are even on that level. Despite that, they've grown really fond of a lot of NPCs and each other, because they learned who those people were and why they were, and now they're all in it together to survive against even worse shit coming.
>>43859658
Mines a N.G. by the Codename "The Contractor"
Giving Evil aligned Men and Women their chance to be evil with power for the sake of over glorifying the party into symbols of Good.
And then immediately turn around to paint them as the revolutionists of a New Ruling system of Communism that idealized their Heroics.
>>43874364
That should be a goal of every campaign that isn't a straight up dungeon crawl.
>>43874462
You know, I never thought to do something like that. Have some organization recognize the power of the Murderhobo, and then help them along to incredible heroics, only to then turn around and cheapen them into symbols of political use to advance the party and win over the people: and they'll be so inextricably linked by then it'd take a devastation of effort to turn it back around.
>>43874302
Anon, how can you say that when your picture has the game's greatest hero fighting Buddy?
TW: blogging and soapboxing ahead.
Alsospeaking as a progressiveand a medical-grade (but ethical) S, if the goal is for media to be more inclusive, shouldn't it be necessary to portray people with horridly destructive vices as capable of rising above the things that would make them evil? Something I hate about the Internet Social Justice machine is that it focuses on identities that make people into woobies who inspire pity. I believe that everyone deserves understanding, regardless of how disgusting they are, and that making them feel included is an important part of what allows such people to be ethical, constructive members of society rather than abusers and criminals. Finding a way to mold those who would be nasty leeches into good people is one the biggest challenges of our time imho.
Okay, blogging over. I'm gonna refrain from posting for a bit, too, so that we don't get off topic.
The thing that gets to me the most was that at the end of the day, every main character except Marty was a victim, pushing their shit on to everyone around them and making the pain keep goingAnd I really have no doubt that had to plot dealt with marty more we would see him with his own father sneaking into his bed in the middle of the night
>>43874590
Yeah. Safe to assume something broke Marty too, and when he's killed we can sort of see the phantom of that, especially when his named changes to Dad.
>>43874581
Well yeah. That's one of the failings of modern society, and also a pretty disgusting and demented puritanical thing. Once fallen, always fallen, never forgive, never forget. Instead of looking at the root problem, trying to find mercy, understanding, and doing the very hard and long road of recovery, people look at the symptoms, and gladly condemn everything and everyone to death or worse.
Many sociopathic systems we have set up profits off of this though, so it'll keep happening. Mental illness will still be treated as a mark of failure, abuse and people who are malformed by abuse will still be seen as a hush hush subject, and millions will continue to suffer, die, and never achieve anything in life because society at large is happy to use anyone and everyone as grist for the mill.
>>43874291
Nox has a plan that involves the loss of countless lives.
His success would involve undoing all of those losses, as well as losses occurred before. This is a net gain in the greater good, but also removes any losses incurred by the current good.
The details and his characterization don't matter too much, as a thought experiment it's just really interesting to /tg/. Among other things his character brings up in the show.
>>43874526
Yup. Only in this case this will lead to a potential civil war.
All caused because someone had to stand up to the dumb sorcerer trying to be edgy with babies first necromancer spell
>>43874581
Is that really how it goes though? I just thought they just sort of make everything milquetoast in their designs, in an attempt to be inclusive without really understanding them all too much.
>>43874761
Ignoring just Nox, I was sort of fascinated with the idea that although time magic existed and could be used, to actually manipulate time to the extent you could move back or forward would require more energy than the goddamn universe itself has. That's a seriously damning feeling: you have the power, the equipment, the calculations, you could make it ALL work and it would work, but you will never, ever, ever actually have enough power to make it do anything but send you back a few minutes at best.Maybe if there's alternate dimensions a BBEG plot could be that they're trying to turn your entire universe and reality into pure energy for their own machine. Though actually maybe harvesting a Big Bang would make more sense.
>>43874858
That's be pretty interesting. We really moved off course off the original topic of the thread as is the destiny of all threads on /tg/, but that'd be a neat BBEG.
There're countless variant universes, and the BBEG wants to consume them all for the sake of his own universe. Maybe make him the alternate version of some early bumper villain or the dead little brother of some PC's backstory.
>>43874922
Or just go down the usual route.The BBEG(s) are the PCs from another timeline, with changes and time passed significant enough to not make it immediately obvious.
Which, you know, is sort of hackneyed. But when it's a game, PCs eat that shit UP cuz it's fun.
>>43874761
See, I don't understand how that's such a major ethical dilemma. If you can seriously erase events (not just rewind time, but make it so certain things never have happened), then your actions you erase don't have any moral implications outside of their effect on you.
The only issue I see here is whether or not he's given it the due diligence to make absolutely CERTAIN it would work.
Although, if someone fantasizes about such a thing extensively, then it has some nasty implications about them.
>>43874795
The best example I can think of for what I'm talking about was some knock-off of pokemon where the mons represented different mental illnesses. In addition to things like depression and schizophrenia, borderline personality was represented as something especially tragic and beautiful. Anti-social personality disorder and obsessive-compulsive personality disorder weren't even mentioned, nor were impulse control disorders like intermittent explosive disorder. It's like they only paid attention to the issues the protagonist of a Lifetime movie would have. Also, the prescribed way to deal with the depression mon was literally just "hugs".
Thousands of people commented about what a brilliant and uplifting idea this was.
>>43874526
Though to be Fair, that's not the main BBEG,
The Contractors just a main with an Idea. That politician thing would just some other person paid by him who earnestly believes in the heroes.
What is the best type of BBEG, /tg/?
>Hateable BBEG
>Slimey little shit that starts as pathetic, cowardly and predisposed to petty cruelty, playing off characters that are stronger and more noble, constantly dicking with the party in small ways before becoming a major threat through underhanded means
>Kefka, Pokey
>Understandable "Did Nothing Wrong" BBEG
>Well-intentioned person working towards an objectively beneficial goal through villainous means, knowing or hoping his endgame will be a net benefit to the world when weighed against the damage it incurs
>Nox
>Fall From Grace
>Good or even heroic person driven to villainy through a complete mental breakdown or other circumstances out of their control
>Oersted (Live-A-Live), Sephiroth,Flowey
>>43875294
I am heavily inclined towards inhuman evil BBEGs. They're a dying kind but nothing quite gets me like the overwhelming power of a destroyer more force of nature than man.
This is how I BBEG
This is how I BBNG
>>43875294
There is no 'best' BBEG. The best is a villain who fits into the story and setting believably.
>>43875418
You and every JRPG ever. Man, Dragon Quest is the only series where the churches don't make a regular habit of being evil.
>>43875470
>BBNG
>Big Bad Neutral Guy
he's not actively trying to harm the party or anything, just revive himself, even if its means starting wars and feuds.but it's warmachine and he's no alignment to any church but his own
>>43875418
Oh hey, lets kill this guy and then resurrect him. Once revived, we build a not entirely evil religion around him and let the insane people of humanity take it far enough.
True Evil never looked so Neutral.
>>43875756
>Oh hey, lets kill this guy and then resurrect him
of course!
>>43874707
>>43874590
The thing that the original LISA game implies caused Marty to become abusive is his wife's death. He supposedly wasn't great before her death, and when she died, he simply stopped holding his alchoholism and violent tendancies back anymore, and without their mother there to protect them, he took hos aggression out on Buddy and Brad.
Though, Lisa was a baby at the start of Painful and thus wouldn't have memories of her mom, so maybe that was retconned.
>>43875781
Lisa and Brad*
>>43875781
You have your characters mixed up hardcore. Buddy - Brad's adopted daughter - is not related to the Armstrongs, she is Yado's kid. Marty fosters her for a short while closer to the end of the game, but it's by coincidence, they're not related by blood.
Lisa is Brad's sister who is playable in LISA the First and commits suicide due to Marty's abuses.
>>43874162
>>43874130
wait what
rando did nothing wrong
don't you mean the blonde queer?
>>43876135
What are you talking about? What blonde queer?
Rando didn't really do anything wrong, but it might be argued he was too soft with Buddy in Joyful, letting her run amok like that. But it's not like he had any choice in the matter, in his mind she had to be protected until the end.
>>43871810
who be he
>>43876239
edgy arm cutting meteor bullshit attack guy
>>43877357
Well the thread's already talked about how Buzzo is a sadistic maniac, but a well-executed one, with legitimate issues. He didn't do anything right (except doing the heel-face turn in the end of Joyful) but he's a good character with realistic motivations and psychological landscape.
>>43859658
This is how I play the tragic underling who believes himself to be free of the BBEG's plotting.
>>43877443
holy shit anon im dying.
>>43877443
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ-chpbBK8Q
Going with that vintage style.
This is how I BBEG
>>43880675
Man, with protagonists like that you don't even need BBEG to put whole country at risk.
>>43880675
BBEG that players want.jpg
>>43862415
>>43863091
>>43865282
>>43865647
>>43866384Asriel got the most shafted out of this entire game, even in the true ending.
Does that makeFloweythe actual BBEG or BEG?
>>43866384
The problem is that you're assuming that peaceful Frisk doesn't listen to chara's (player's in a blind playthrough) voice. Because there's always the temptation to see what's in the other route (most players can't resist to try the prick route or at least peek into it), the only difference is wether Frisk listen to those urges (making whole chara's malevolence again) or just ignores them. Think of peaceful Frisk as the LG guy who has just a wee bit of curiosity for genocide.
>>43865647
The problem is that Chara was the first one to fall, and it's implied that the first fell a long time ago.
Remember that Flowey isn't Asriel but a recomposition of his essence made a while after all the human souls were collected and the determination extractor was completed, when Alphys was choosing vessels. This means that Chara's soul, massive determination or not, has been fractured for a looong time, most likely years without substenance or real agency in the world.
At the end of the genocide run, and concretely at the start of round 2, Chara manages to coax Frisk into selling his soul, but when you think about it, a fractured, weakened, ghosted version of Chara is basically overrriding a healthy, very much alive and in dominion of full determination Frisk, when it's implied that even Asriel had stronger will than the fallen human. Just because Frisk goes psycho, doesn't mean that he's automatically going to submit to another evil character unless there's a very strong connection between the two, down to the fashion sense, at least brothers.
Also, wasn't Toriel who took Chara's body to bury it in the ruins long before Frisk was in the picture?
As for suspecting another BBEG I have my reasons. If it is who I think it is, and there's is a part two or DLC it should be confirmed or denied then.Let's just say that I don't think Chara (a child) or Asgore (a soft hearted dude) could come up with the idea of godhood on their own
>>43873451
This.
>>43859658
This is how I BBEG.This doesn't even have to do with the other games being posted, I just really like guys who fuck things up because they have a greater purpose they have to fulfill.
>>43859658
This is how I BBEG.
>>43859766
Rando schemed and lied to Buddy. Without that moment, she might not have went completely psycho. Brad was an abusive father. While he was right to teach her how to kill and to try and hide her from Rando, he was wrong in keeping her locked up in such a way as to let her never leave the house.
Both of them could have had a happy ending had other forces not turned completely against them or had they worked together.
>>43865002
>Shocklord is the only one who flat out refuses to attack at the end
That's probably because only a full on hostile jackass would use special abilities against Brad and fight like they do as a party member. Shocklord only ever does one thing, and it's counted as a special ability.Though you could read that as him being a good person, I think it just makes him incapable of knowing what to do.
>>43877443
>>43887011
>"I don't like this... Guys this ain't right. Brad I don't want to hurt you! Stand down! Please..."
He didn't want to harm his friend. When he said "Arm-Shock will never die!!" he meant itgood dubs
I just finished the game so I could come post in this thread and while I'm still not sure of everything I can say that the game was hardcore. I suppose I can sort of get the Undertale comparisons but they are totally different, Hell one is the game where nobody had to die and the other is the game where you have to pick who dies.
Also on the /tg/ side of things, would you even be able to Buzzo a party? I feel like when it's a tabletop situation you would have people leaving the game or throwing a big shit fit after the second time you take away something as important to them as all their stuff or their arms.
By making my players not know who the BBEG is.
>>43859658
This is how I BBEG
![FVfUTKR[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/ALBokmz.gif "FVfUTKR[1].gif")
>>43859658
This is how *I* BBEG
>>43875756
I just wish more people listened to what Jesus from Nazaret said: after all, he only wanted us to be bros with each others.
But assholes made a mess out of it and fucked shit up again.
>>43888288
Asgore was an asshole though.
>>43859722
This is how I warforged.
>>43888330
I DID say he was the villain....
>>43888332
Fair enough.
This is how I BBEG
>>43878408
Is that you, young girl?
>>43877443
>he just cuts off the story on him killing the girl
God damn I wanted to at least see how all the other characters and their respective players reacted.I'VE BEEN TAKEN ON THE WILD RIDE TOO NOW FUCK
>>43877443
You know, while this story is good and all, it always bothers me how much the guy metagamed to piss off everyone.
>>43888503
There was a second part, which was lost in the deep end of /tg/, I think it was that the other people rose as one to stop him from killing the girl (she had been severely injuried, but was still alive) and before the rogue could finish her off, all three other character piled on to him and murderkilled him. He was then booted from the group.
>>43888553
I know what >>43888528 said is true but booting him from the group after the characters that were already evil were played off like a damn fiddle by a really evil character should have been congratulated.
>>43859678
You... you've managed to play a game where the characters--who all started as lawful good--didn't immediately descend into chaotic evil at the very first sight of any situation in which combat is a possible "resolution"?
>>43888567
Why congratulated?
>>43888528
I don't think it should bother you. If his character decided since the start to get to know his victim very well before killing her, he had a very valid in-game reason to go through with his plans and kill her.
>>43886810
Do you hate your players or something?
>>43862415
Like the other anons said, Chara isexplicitly stated to be a bad person by Asriel, albeit one he couldn't help but listen to because he was such a doormat. Furthermore, his/her entire plan was to destroy all of humanity by freeing the monsters and inciting a second war with either Asriel or Asgore using human souls to become completely unstoppable. It only didn't work because none of the Dreemurrs have the balls to get shit done, they're all cowards, even Toriel.
It is arguable that a psychotic Frisk corrupts her into OMNICIDE rather than just genocide, though, as it's ambigious as to whether Chara ever cared about the Dreemurrs or whether he/she was just a sociopath.
>>43859658
>>43874364
This isn't Undertale? As far as I'm concerned, Papyrus and Mettaton are the only characters that don't deserve some kind of reprisal, even if death is a little harsh for some of them.Asgore, Asriel, and MAYBE Toriel all deserve it
>>43871960
>>43871989
so its a more depressing Fist of the North Star?
>>43889236
Pretty much.
>>43888688
While that's true, the character didn't wait for the moment he knew enough, the player waited for the moment both the other PCs and the DM himself, which were kinda out of his reach in-character (Don't know how close the PCs were, but no way the rogue would know the DM's thoughts), to start going good and congratulate him even for him to do his actions.
Honestly, it's good, but if the context explained the rogue was a downright eviler guy who wanted to show even the extreme actions of the others had no strong will behind it since they'd have a softer spot for anyone they knew in a deeper sense, then it'd feel more appropriate.I'm actually a sucker for characters who do that, just walk to someone gloating about being evil then showing how deeper one can go.
>>43889174
You thought so? For me Sans and Flowey were the only ones I cared about enough. Not in the sense of deserving it or not, but the ones I wanted to stay alive so I could see them both show their intents and justifications and see that, depending on the ending, they're the only ones to actually try to fight their flaws.
In the end, the actions of everyone besides Chara are justifiable, but I disliked most of them because they're either cliches (like Undyne), stupid fucks (like Asgore) or simply joke characters, which, while not deserving of being called forgettable by the game, have no interesting impact on the plot (Like Papyrus)
>>43859658
Like this.
>>43889419
The thing is, we don't know how much he wanted to get to know his victim before he did what he did.
I think what bothers you is the fact that people who are obviously not that good at playing evil characters booted him once he tried to kill their beloved NPC.
Because there are two kinds of people who play evil characters: those who aren't so good and those wo are and can go through with it.
The first sort are easily spotted when they start having afterthoughts of what they are doing when the GM carefully describes the NPCs they are messing with, how deeply painful and distressing the actions of the evil PCs are. The people who can really roleplay the evil characters won't even be fazed.
That's why a GM who knows that people can't play evil character really well, won't go into detail when the players start murdering, torturing and other evil things.
These people could play evil characters, as long as they didn't know the people they were killing and whatever to care enough about them.
In my opinion, the player who wrote the story is a good player of evil characters. That and he showed the others what being evil really entails aswell.
>>43889474
Don't get me wrong. I like all the characters, even Asgore. The only character I loathe is Temmie, because they're a retarded throwaway gag.
But yea, Mettaton justwanted to defend humanity from Asgore/You (depending on the playthrough).Papyrus is an entirely good-hearted, innocent soul who would have never helped Asgore if he knew what the overarching plan was.
Asgore, Undyne, and arguably Sans deserve to get their asses kicked in something fierce. Asgore becausehe was following a plan that was totally unnecessary from the beginning for a goal he didn't even want and all because he was too much of a chickenshit to just admit to his people he only said what he did out of a momentary rage, Undyne because she was responsible for helping murder at least six innocent people, many of which were probably children, and Sans becausehe knew what was going on on Asgore's side (and in the genocide run, yours) and did nothing to stop any of them, despite being the most powerful monster in the underground. I don't care how depressed he is, that's no excuse for letting someone murder literally everyone.
Alphys is a duh, and Toriel because she's a god damn hypocrite, calling out Asgore on his shit but fucking off to the furthest corner of the underground and being such a vindictive, petty bitch about the whole thing that she let 6 people die simply because she didn't want to go near Asgore. Or, you know, do a ruler's duty and lay the smackdown on him for being such a cowardly dumbass.
>>43889474
>>43889709
Oh, and what Flowey did wrong should be obvious. It's perfectly alright to feel sorry for him, he got the most shafted out of everyone, but he KNEW what he was doing was wrong, he just got bored of doing the right thing.
>>43889567
You monster!
>>43889174
As the anon who posted what you're replying to... no, not really. Undertale's fantastic, but it falls into the trap of everyone turning out to be alright. All of the characters (except the Fallen Child) not only turn out to be good people deep down, but are also easily forgiven. It's a great game and an inspiring message. If I had kids, I'd want them to play Undertale.
The problem there is that we only ever see most of the characters from an outsider's perspective. We never see Alphys as one of her test subjects sees her. We never see Asgore from the perspective of the first six children he killed (or really from Toriel's viewpoint, either). While it's explained that many of the characters do bad things, we never hear how their victims feel about that. This ends up making all of the characters seem like really nice people that the player can easily empathize with. The game's tone has a lot to do with this, as well.
I'd like to make something with the same goal, that is to empathize with and be merciful toward the other characters, but with it being far more challenging. Could you show kindness to a burglar who refuses to admit that he did anything wrong? What about a white-collar criminal who profits off of keeping others poor? What about a neglectful or abusive parent? What about someone who's just a colossal jerk? Could you do it after seeing how their victims feel? After being a victim of them? I feel that this would present a worthwhile challenge, and that it would help teach the players how to handle people who are in many ways genuinely bad, yet still human beings.
>>43891534
>What about a neglectful or abusive parent?What about someone who's just a colossal jerk?
>Could you do it after seeing how their victims feel? After being a victim of them?
Well one good example would be.Bradley... I've changed...Lisa, baby...I'm sorry
>>43892068
That touches on it, yes. The in-game solution there is still violence, though. What I'm talking about would give the player the option to leave Marty be, and somehow convince Buddy to leave with Brad. Then, if they just forget about that part from then on, you'd get more hallucinations of Lisa berating you for just letting him off the hook. If you stuck around for a bit, there'd be a sequence where Marty still gets to redeem himself (maaaybe earning Brad's forgiveness, or at least trying to make amends), but it'd require your input as well, while still maintain all due caution needed for keeping Buddy and Brad around someone who was (and still is, for all you know) an abuser and repeat child molester.
Well, I don't know how welcome I am in among all these video games that I know nothing about, but... this is how I BBEG.
