I did this to players:
>This is not an encounter than your skills will help with, no amount of diplomacy can reason with him and no amount of intimidation stop him. He does not think in the same way you do, nor does he care about what will happen either way. What is going to happen here is that you all have already screwed up monumentally just to have pushed it to this point. From here on out you are on the knife's edge, one misstep and not just you, but everyone will face oblivion.
I the took out a set of cards and put them on the desk.
>Now we shall play a game, where the currency is life and nothing matters but your skill in mind games. It is called E-card. Now pick up your cars and let us begin, and let us pray the gods will have more mercy on your souls than I will.
They weren't angry. More scared.
Am I a horrible fucking person for making them play E-card?
>>43833837
The fuck is e card?
>>43833853
It's something from Kaiji.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH8wio2y2uI
Basically it's a game where each person has 5 cards. Each person has 4 "citizens", and one person has a 5th card of the "emperor" and the other a "slave". Emperor beats citizens, citizens beat slaves, and slaves beat emperor. It was one of the final, and in my opinion, the biggest gamble he went through season one.For reference Kaiji is a gambling anime
>>43833906
Sounds dumb. Can I shoot the other guy?
>>43833942
The guy they were playing ecard with?
They had gone past the point that shooting would have helped. Shooting would have worsened the situation. I only did this to them because they had already screwed up over and over to arrive here. Basically the guy, because he liked games, offered them the deal of playing the game with their lives on the line. His death would have just gotten them killed.
>>43833853
In my country ecards are used to give a doctor information about my current insurance status
>>43833958
Bullshit. Shooting always helps.
But seriously, if you actually sat them all down and went "Nah, you can't do anything except play this dumb animu cardgame." Then yeah, you'd be shit. But you seem like an alright dude who wouldn't do that. Maybe.
So you basically forced them into a situation where no matter what the players, not their characters but the players, had to play some card game with you the GM, not the NPC but the GM, completely removing all other options with no other logical reason than "because" and completely removing their characters' skills and abilities and instead relying on the players' luck and ability to play some card game a manga author made up?
I don't think I need to go further in explaining the issues here, do I?
>>43834312
All other options were gone at this because due to their own mistakes and choices. THey tried to force a confrontation with someone they knew was more powerful than them. I gave them a card game as an out rather than death.
And how am I to represent a cardgame happening in game besides them, as they character, playing against me, as the NPC? They were allowed to attempt to cheat using slight of hand and the like.
>>43834149
They could do what ever they wanted, it has been a long road leading to this confrontation, they just made a lot of poor choices. (Like pissing off a crime boss they knew ran the city, then staying in the city, then trying to disrupt his drug business, then trying to recruit one of his lieutenants)
I chose this rather than them just dying to his body guards when they attempted to storm his compound.
>>43834380
You keep saying "all other options were gone" as if that is in any way remotely a possible thing.
Are you players that stupid they couldn't think of anything, or are you that stupid that no matter what they'd have thought of you'd have said "no! Only cards!"?
Bad GM? No. I've had to do that with players sometimes when they get rowdy. That being said, its always avoidable, and... While I hate to admit it, guns are usually an option.
Slug-guns? Energy sheilds.
Lasers? Energy sheilds.
Bladed weapons? Plated armor.
Stealth? Motion sensored HUDs.
You see where this is going. If my players have pissed off the Big Bad, they've done something terribly wrong (or right, I suppose), but the HNIC can still be offed. Just wont be easy. At all. Still. I had one group successfully fight off one of the big bad mercs that'd come to kill them, once, and they enjoyed a really huge notoriety boost. Obviously, not when *other* runners wanted the notoriety, but still.
Everything should have a choice. If you dont offer one, youre not horrible. But its good for a GM to get out of his/her comfort zone every once in a while.
>>43834482
This. If you wanted to play cards, OP, fine. Hell, you could even play this same situation, but in a better way. Not just "fade to black, lol nothing you do matters now, we're playing cards".
But it's just clear you wanted a way to play this game and jumped on the chance to force others to play it with you.
>>43834482
Essentially I'll put you in their place.
The lieutenant you tried to convince to betray the big bad isn't doing it, or isn't here. You broke into his front room after not scouting the place out to find that it was, indeed, an ambush. You're now surrounded by his guards and the big bad comes out and says he liked the player's spunk (them having disrupted quite a few of his dealings in the city). He offers you to play a game to win their freedom rather just get shot by his guards.
They could have attempted to fight, that would have been fine. They may have been able to escape, they may have been able to win (unlikely, but possible).
>>43834526
Again, it wasn't just fade to black. The BBEG offered them an out via the card game rather than killing them.
>>43834526
And as an example situation where it'd work: wait for a TPK. The BBEG comes after their ass and wipes them out (not just by GM fiat, but has a real reason to) and then after that he somehow heals them just to toy with them. And then they play for their life.
Maybe after a TPK he stops before they're really dead and gives them a choice: play a game or die.
Something that gives a justification for the game happening or gives the players a choice in the matter. But, that said, if they enjoyed it, then it's whatever. Just saying you could've done this situation in a better way that didn't just basically force players to play some card game with you because you wanna play it.
It'd be like if the players went to sleep in a tavern and now suddenly I just fade to black and say to them "you all fucked up too much, now play me at chess or die". Come on, dude. Come up with a more compelling story than that and at least pretend you're giving the players some agency.
>>43834608
>Play my dumb card game or die LAWL
OP I thought better of you. I really did.
The problem is the "no other options" bullshit.
If in the situation the BBEG decided he's a gambling man and he offers to settle this ever escalating conflict on HIS terms, a fair game, once and for all, then that could make for a cool narrative. The players should still have had the option to reject it and try a different plan, most likely resulting in a further escalation of the larger conflict.
What makes you a bad GM in the situation is taking away that latter option and leaving them with the choice between card game or fuck you that's the only choice you get.
>>43834589
>Essentially I'll put you in their place.
>The lieutenant you tried to convince to betray the big bad isn't doing it, or isn't here. You broke into his front room after not scouting the place out to find that it was, indeed, an ambush.
Why was there an ambush at the office? Yeah, there should be guards. But how did any of these guards know to set an ambush up with the BBEG there and all? Besides you having known they were gonna break in after the lieutenant denied them and then picking that opportunity to basically force them to play a card game you wanted to play?
>>43834642
>The players should still have had the option to reject it and try a different plan, most likely resulting in a further escalation of the larger conflict.
They could have, just at this point they were surrounded by his guards. What am I supposed to do? Make the BBEG completely unprepared when someone tried to break into his house after threatening him?
>>43834589
>They could have attempted to fight, that would have been fine. They may have been able to escape, they may have been able to win (unlikely, but possible).
This right here makes the WORLD of difference. Before you said this you were sounding like these weren't options.
>>43834662
>Why was there an ambush at the office?
Because the BBEG got the information from his lieutenant.
>Yeah, there should be guards. But how did any of these guards know to set an ambush up with the BBEG there and all?
Because the players told the lieutenant when they were going to attack, the BBEG got it out of him.
> denied them and then picking that opportunity to basically force them to play a card game you wanted to play?
You're right, I could have just killed them since they were being idiots.
See, now that you've said the situation was they cocked up enough they got stuck in an extremely difficult fight with a potential out it's actually not that bad.
Before now you were sounding like it was they cocked up and you decided they either take this out or die with no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
I like how OP asked if he did bad then started getting pissy when everyone said yes.
Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answer to, faggot.
>>43835270
Nah bruh, this is how most threads go.
>>43833837
Yes, you are, faggot.
>>43834708
that is extremely dumb of them
although you should have just let them fight it out using the existing system, and probably die.
>>43834380
>I chose this rather than them just dying to his body guards when they attempted to storm his compound.
Honestly? From your story I think that in this case BAD END would have been a learning opportunity.
Reading this tread makes me mad. Are people that fucking stupid that they don't understand OP's players fucked up massively and OP gave them the last option that could possibly lead to players not being instantly killed by overpowered encounter (that they got into because they fucked up)? Jesus.
>>43837756
>Reading this tread makes me mad. Are people that fucking stupid that they don't understand OP's players fucked up massively and OP gave them the last option that could possibly lead to players not being instantly killed by overpowered encounter (that they got into because they fucked up)? Jesus.
the issue was that both fucked up
also, OP did a shit job explaining his position. Merely authoritatively stating his PCs fucked up and then describing an extremely spergy punishment he devised where they play cards for their chars lives
>>43837837
I understood what was exactly going on right after this >>43833958 post. Players fucked up and should had died, but GM took pity over them and gave them last chance. Maybe they don't like restarting campaigns or don't really have time to start games over from the beginning, creating new characters etc.?
The way he handled it was fine, it could have been anything else with the same result. The bad guy just likes gambling and looks like he took a slight liking to players, because they fucked him over several times (a twisted sense of humor maybe?).
I actually like the idea of playing the game as players vs GM, not NPCs versus PCs. This was a game like "Dudes, you fucked this one up to the point of no return. You should be dead now, but let me give you one, last chance. Let's gamble for your characters if you value their lives or just do anything else, probably with fatal consequences."
Fuck the players, OP. Seriously, to hell with them. They are entitled brats, which most in this thread confirm. You did an alright thing, if it was an overwhelming kind of an encounter. Yeah, if you were sure they would lose, it is a good out. Of course, as long as they knew that they did not have to accept that offer, and as long as they knew they could fight it out or try to run away, despite the small odds off success.
Not every encounter needs to be made to facilitate your party. If they decide to play like retards and play murder hobo's in a civilised town, then the police force that gangs up on them will sure as hell not be on the level that will be "tough but winnable." No, it will consist of fucking Bruce Lee, Superman and Chuck Norris coming to kick their asses.
>>43837756
>>43837958
We get it, you don't like getting called out. But a bit of advice? Don't fucking post shit on the internet asking to tell you if you did something wrong if you can't handle being told you're wrong, and don't pretend to be other people ti defend yourself.
>>43833837
>They weren't angry. More scared.
No, you're a good GM.
>>43833837
>This is not an encounter than your skills will help with, no amount of diplomacy can reason with him and no amount of intimidation stop him. He does not think in the same way you do, nor does he care about what will happen either way. What is going to happen here is that you all have already screwed up monumentally just to have pushed it to this point. From here on out you are on the knife's edge, one misstep and not just you, but everyone will face oblivion.
Ya, railroading this hard is the sign of a bad GM. There is always a choice, always another way. As one of my old DMs put it: "There is always a Secret Door"
Learn from this, and try not to do it again
>>43833942
>A living, breathing reminder as to why I no longer recruit from /tg/ gamefinder threads
