I'm going to admit it, /tg/: My feelings are hurt because of a player. And I need you to tell me that either I did nothing wrong and the other guy is an asshole, I did everything wrong and need to improve to avoid this happening again, or I need to man up and quit being a bitch.
So I'm proud to DM a Pathfinder campaign going steadily on for over two years now. We started out with five players, but now we only have three. We've been looking for more in our local area over the course of MONTHS.
Well we thought we finally found one, we invited him over to play, and he accepted. He showed up early with a character already rolled up, I looked over it, and after some adjusting we came to an agreement to a PC that would fit into the current party and campaign perfectly.
I let the player know that the players were in the middle of the forest when the last session ended, so it might take a while before he could join in the game. The player said he was fine with that. I estimated only about two hours before I could get his character to join the party in a way that made sense to the ongoing plot.
Well, one thing led to another and players being players, they went exactly where I didn't expect them to go and then got into an extended fight that took quite a long time to resolve. Everyone had fun but, long story short: Eight hours elapsed, it was time to end the session and go home, and I still didn't get to find a way to have the new player join the campaign.
I apologized to him, and invited him to our next session. This is where he metaphorically kicked me in the balls and nearly left me in tears:
He told me don't bother planning anything for him because he wasn't going to show up to the next session. When I asked him why he bluntly told me that if I couldn't figure out a way to get him actively involved in the game in 8 hours, then I failed him as a DM and he doubted another 8 hours gaming with me would be any better. He said that gaming session was a waste of his time.
>>43825652
>So I'm proud to DM a Pathfinder campaign
Sorry anon, tl;dr you a bitch
>>43825652
>if I couldn't figure out a way to get him actively involved in the game in 8 hours, then I failed him as a DM and he doubted another 8 hours gaming with me would be any better
Having read the thread, I'm sticking with my initial reaction.
I agree. While it may of been hard to get him in the party that made full sence it wasn't impossible. They got in a fight? Leap out of a bush and help. Lost in the forest he stumbles on the party's camp.
And while these seem to be bland ideas they are still things that can be done.
Nothing is worse then a player left out for stupid reasons.
Are they half way across the country on a time sensitive mission? That's a good reason.
Are they tieing up the horses 5 minutes away? You can wait to start the combat.
But op. It's on you and your players. They are just as faulty
>>43825652
I'm not sure if you guaranteed him getting into the game in two hours or less or not, but if I was a player and I had to wait 8 hours and not even get to play my character? I'd be super pissed.
Maybe you're not wrong, since as a DM there's only so much you can control for your players before it becomes railroading, but that doesn't mean leaving a player to watch and wait for 8 hours is acceptable.
8 hours!?! Dear lord in heaven have mercy.
>>43825652
>made sense to the ongoing plot
You're too focused on story preservation. I know you don't just wanna be LOLRANDOM and throw people in the game, but there's a limit. 8 hours of wait time? Way past the limit.
>8 hours
>not 5 minutes
you did fucking what? maybe i wouldn't kick you in the balls but i would call you names for sure
you invited a guy to play and make him sit for eight hours, that's like saying to someone 'I don't like you'
>>43825652
you goofed, you should have fiated him into the game in under an hour
>>43825652
No one wants to show up to a game to sit there doing fuck nothing for eight hours. It was definitely a waste of his time (and a rather large amount of it at that), and he has a right to be annoyed. Your plot is flat out not as important as players getting to participate.
That said if he just sat there for eight hours without complaint and then quit forever after you apologized for him, that's not great either. If he had a problem with sitting out like that, he should have been speaking up about it before then. And while I'd have been pissed too, if I was in the player's situation I would have at least tried to talk it out with you and given you a second chance. That he wouldn't may indicate that he's not a very tolerant guy in general.
>I need to man up and quit being a bitch.
Also this, you sound really thin skinned dude.
>>43825652
If people are just sitting there for eight hours, you have fucked up. Its not hard to shoehorn a new PC into a game. Make an extreme leap of logic to get them there if you have to. He had every right to be pissed at you. You wasted his time.
>>43825652
that dude was right on the money. Not gonna sugarcoat this dude, you dun goofed real bad. 8 hours? of nothing but this guy watching you guys play? I would have peaced long, LONG before that man. Players > your story, every time.
>>43825652
>I need you to tell me that either I did nothing wrong and the other guy is an asshole
why would anyone possibly think think that?
>I did everything wrong and need to improve to avoid this happening again
This
>or I need to man up and quit being a bitch
AND this.
I can hardly believe you're crying about this honestly, if all he did was tell you bluntly that you fucked up then you got off lightly.
>>43825652
Oh, also
>invite a guy to play pf
>have him do nothing for 8 hours
>he says he's not coming back
>you ask why
what the fuck is wrong with you OP?
>>43825652
>players in the woods
>what ho fellow traveller
problem fucking solved
U a dumbass
>>43825652
Also, you're probably a shitty DM. He listened to the shit you were pulling for eight hours without the benefit of being "in the world." That would've shown him that you're a shitty dm
>>43826755
>That he wouldn't may indicate that he's not a very tolerant guy in general.
He tolerated OP's shit for eight hours. That's seven hours more than I would.
>>43825652
I don't believe you
>>43827950
This or
>new character is attracted by the sound of battle
or
>the party goes somewhere? New character is camping there for no good reason
or
>comes across the party while travelling
or
>wizard gives him a divining stone, tells him where the party is for mystical reasons
or
>falls out of the fucking sky who gives a shit.
>>43825652
>2 hours to get into a game if the players acted within my expectations
>8 hours if they don't
Even 2 hours is way too fucking much. Work on your ability to adapt to your players you sad sad man. It would take me 15 minutes at most if they weren't in a fight. The most I could honestly feel comfortable with having a player wait would be like 45 minutes before I railroading to get him in.
>>43825652
>>43828708
Like this? Could be epic.
https://youtu.be/iJq0iXOwb9Y?t=10s
More seriously: yeah you should have railroaded him into the game, I really don't think your players would have minded.
If this keeps bothering you, just write him another genuine apology and offer him another chance. Promise to correct your previous mistake. At least you'll gain some peace of mind even if he declines.
It was not your fault entirely. Anyone could have stepped up and said "this is taking way too long and the poor guy is just sitting there". Even the dude himself could have done that.
>>43825652
Would YOU have come back after someone wasted your time for 8 hours?
OP, if you're still around: Ignore the rest of this thread's posters. You are the DM, it's your game to run as you see fit, and if the other players have a problem with it then they did right by leaving.
I can empathize with you, OP. It takes long hours of excruciating prep work for each game, ESPECIALLY if you're crafting a mature world and storyline that goes beyond just hack and slash. It truely helps with immersion, for both the players and the DM when you write out a campaign with all the loving detail and work you would put into a novel. And like any good novelist, you wouldn't just have random characters falling out of the sky and joining the party for extended periods. They need history, back story, a believable meeting with the party, time to build trust, and a reason to keep traveling with them. All that takes time, REAL LIFE time and in-game time. And if players, or anybody else fails to appreciate this, ignore them. They are BAD PLAYERS you do not want to listen to, and you do not want in your game.
>>43831718
>creating That GM
>howto
>>43831718
No. Cut this shit out.
The primary focus of an RPG is to play a game. Don't give me this shit about 'good novelist' nonsense, it's absolutely irrelevant when it comes to players not playing a game. That is to say, not playing the game they came to play. If you want a 'mature, crafted' narrative, write a fucking novel. If you want to play a game with other human beings then you have to take some creative liberties.
Also,
>truely
Sort your fucking shit out you idiot.
>>43832108
>If you want to play a game with other human beings then you have to take some creative liberties.
The DM is taking enough creative liberties by allowing another character into his campaign with a background that may be alien to the world and the rest of the party. It is up to the player to accommodate the DM as best they can.
>>43825652
You're both assholes
If the story is 100% factual, you're a piece of shit for just not shoving him into it then explaining it off in downtime
But if he actually said that instead of just bowing out, then yeah he sounds pretty autistic
I would have left after like 3-4 hours of waiting, but then again I've got other important things in my life I could always be doing. I've come to realize some people are perfectly happy doing nothing but work, sleep, then rpg every saturday for ever and ever and nothing but.
>>43832334
Nonsense.
If you want a masturbatory fantasy where other people play your puppets, I recommend fiction.
Sure a player should accommodate a GM, but then it goes both ways, if the GM wants players then they must accommodate to that.
You can take your beliefs and fuck right off, because an attitude like that leads to poor gaming, GM power trips and dissatisfaction in the players.
>taking enough creative liberties
That's the GM's job. The GM is there to ensure that there is a creative world for the players to inhabit and the GM to arbitrate. Do you want players? Then you accommodate their characters. Do you not want players? Then a tabletop RPG is not for you.
>>43832395
No, the slighted player showed amazing patience.
Didn't even ruin the game for the other people.
>>43832540
What you call amazing patience I call having a lack of spine. If the wait was enough to throw a tantrum to the DM, then he should have just up and left earlier.
However, there's several things that we didn't see because we weren't there. Maybe the guy was constantly making visual/vocal cues the DM was ignoring, or maybe he was just sitting there not saying anything. Dunno.
It's 4chan. If i've learned anything it's that nine times out of ten everyone in the story is an asshole to some degree or another.
Even the other players. They couldn't have just helped the guy in by making some shit up? Assholes.
Assholes everywhere.
asshole singularity
>>43832658
Especially you.
>>43832705
ESPECIALLY me
>>43832705
>>43832767
NOW KISS
>>43831718
>You are the DM, it's your game to run as you see fit
Games aren't a dictatorship. Sure, the GM put a lot of work into the game, and the GM is running the game, but that doesn't mean he is the alpha and the omega.
Games are a small community unto themselves, and a community works best if there's discussion and understanding among each other. The player in this story should have said something after an hour or so, but that's a minor fuckup; the GM messed it up far, far worse. He was too beholden to the game's story and another person lost eight hours of what was supposed to be fun.
>>43831718
>ESPECIALLY if you're crafting a mature world and storyline that goes beyond just hack and slash.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck yooooooooooooooooooou.
>>43825652
I'm the GM of my tables campaign at the moment. What I'll say is this OP, I understand that you wanna tell a story, and that it's important to you an your players to keep the integrity of your story in tact. But it's still up to you first and foremost to be courteous to the players at your table. PnP games only function well when there's mutual respect between GM and player. And not to bring you down man but it's really rude to just invite someone out to play and then shut them out for an entire day.
>>43825652
You can work any character into any story in 5 minutes. You fucked up.
>>43825652
How the fuck was it hard to have him jump in?
>players start a fight
>he new guy: roll initiative, and think of a reason your character is in the middle of the woods.
I'm honestly surprised it took the guy 8 hours to metaphorically kick you in the balls. I would have been pissed at the hour mark. Like holy shit, are you retarded?
OP is a fag
>Got so caught up with his clique he literally lost track of the new player
>Somehow had no idea how to Plot the new character into the PC's situation
>When I asked him why he bluntly told me that if I couldn't figure out a way to get him actively involved in the game in 8 hours, then I failed him as a DM and he doubted another 8 hours gaming with me would be any better. He said that gaming session was a waste of his time.
He was completely right.
>>43831718
Pretty sure this is OP angry he found zero support here. You really did screw it up yourself bud.
>>43829929
>find that guy
>jump
>survive but super lost
>don't progress the main questline again until I've been playing for weeks
Reminds me of the time I accidentally changed box in pokemon and when I saw my new box was empty I thought I'd deleted all my pokemon. So I ended up making an entirely new party. At the time I only had like 3 pokemon in my party and they were all new low-level catches because I was swapping around party members.I cried for a full afternoon and night.
>>43831718
Fucking christ, this shit right here is what's wrong with people in this hobby. My group is nothing but my high-school friends who literally ask me to lead them by the nose along a weeaboo fightan railroad story and even i wouldn't have fucking let someone sit out for eight god damn hours.
OP you fucked up, but now you know you fucked up and you can improve yourself and your style. You just need to keep in mind, no matter what you and your players think the number one priority is always the players playing the game, not muh immersion, not muh verisimilitude, players playing the game.
>>43825652
>I did everything wrong and need to improve to avoid this happening again,
Yes, this.
>or I need to man up and quit being a bitch.
This, too.
OP: You should have got your new player into the campaign right from the very start. Just pull any dumb excuse out of your ass to get him right in: He just so happens to be traveling through the woods and meets the party. It's that simple.
>>43825652
How hard is it to say "Meanwhile, so-and-so, you're going through these woods because...and you hear some kind of commotion."
>>43831718
This here is how to create the Bad GM farce. People who claim things like "Ignore your players if they don't appreciate your story" or "You don't like my game? Find another!" are the kinds of people who give DMs the thought that they need not improve. What GMs need to understand is that D&D is not simply a storytelling medium, but an amalgam of storytelling and a game, and as such, you need to take your player's fun levels into consideration as well as your own. Sure, it's a dumb idea to allow your players to walk all over you to the point that YOU'RE not having fun, but it's all about compromise. Furthermore, any decent storywriter could have improvised him into the story rather easily, ESPECIALLY in an open ended area like a forest. I can understand hardships if it were, say, the BBEG's lair, and it'd be difficult to find some fully suited adventurer there, but it's a forest, where traders, caravans, campers, barbarians, and the general idiot gets lost in. OP, you done fucked up, but you're not irredeemable, you just need to work on your improvisation skills and mesh them together with your storytelling skills.
>>43840926
>I can understand hardships if it were, say, the BBEG's lair,
So in other words the OP would be excused for the 8 hour wait if the "story" circumstances still forbade a new PC entry into the party.
You are just as bad as he is.
The answer is not "become a better storyteller"
The answer is "Be a better GAME master"
>>43841974
I'm not saying he'd be excused for 8 hours in the BBEG's lair. What I was stating is that I'd understand he'd have a much harder time to justify it. The point of my statement is "You were even in a forest, you don't even have the 'muh storyline' excuse for not plopping the PC in".
>>43825652
Yeah, you're an absolute moron.
"You come across the remains of a camp, it seems the fire was hastily put out. Other player: from your hiding spot near your camp, you see a group of adventurers. You recognize the friendly sigil on their gear/you know one of them from your hometown/you recognize them as local heroes/etc"
In short, it is so fucking easy to introduce a new character what is your problem
>>43825652
You're so fucking bad god damn.
