>rolling to confirm critical hits
There is literally no good reason for this
Trying to make it harder to crit on a harder-to-hit monster than a monster you can hit 80+% of the time.
>>43825297
Why not?
>>43825424
This.
It just would be weird if there was a monster that was so tough you could only hit it 5% of the time, but each and every time you did manage to hit it, you dealt double damage.
I personally don't care for the AC mechanic in the first place.
I agree. Any time a player rolls a natural 20, they do double damage.
One of the many reasons I hated 3E was confirmed crits.
Rolling to confirm exists to make it harder for creatures to kill characters, not the other way around.
>critical hits
There is literally no good reason for this when you already determine damage with a dice roll.
>>43825297
It balances out fumbles, which must also be confirmed. It would be a shitty adventurer that dropped/broke their weapon 5% of the time
>>43825297
>houserule it
>don't play d&d
>>43825435
>omg I rolled a crit!!!!
>yeeeeeahhhhhhhh
>alright roll to confirm
>oh it's just a normal hit
>oh
>>43825452
There's *some* case to be made for an enemy that's so tough to hurt that it only occurs when you hit some vital area, but that logic falls mostly flat against enemies whose AC is abstracted as something other than armor/plating. There's a reason that initially it not only required a high natural roll but beating the enemy's AC by 5 or more.
>>43825478
>rolling damage
There is literally no good reason for this when you already know whether you hit or not and how strong your character is.
>>43825488
There is no rule for fumbles in D&D at all. At least not modern forms. I haven't played anything 2e or earlier in over a decade.
>>43825488
>>>including critical fumbles
not in raw
>>43825528
if you forget about rolling to confirm every single time you roll a 20 then you have the intelligence and memory of a potato.
>>43825550
It's not about forgetting, it's about the joy which players derive from critical hits
>>43825545
>There is literally no good reason for this when you already know whether you hit or not and how strong your character is.
I know that you're mostly being sarcastic with this, but honestly systems with flat damage values augmented by armor and net successes from the attack roll always felt more intuitive than "roll for damage"
>>43825528
I don't understand what your argument is.
>>43825550
That's an impressive lack of reading comprehension, anon.
>>43825605
>I don't understand what your argument is.
He's saying that the joy D&D players experience when rolling a natural 20 during their attack is dampened when the confirmation roll turns their "awesome natural 20" into "regular attack".
>>43825586
then maybe they should learn to temper their erections until they make the second roll
>>43825660
>He's saying that the joy D&D players experience when rolling a natural 20 during their attack
Which is 5% of the time.
It happens constantly. They don't need to go spastic every time they read a number they're just as likely to roll as an 11. There's a reason core rules at one point didn't include crits in the first place.
>>43825664
Well, yeah.
Like with many things, you could either put up with it, or do the more sensible/fun thing in the first place.
>>43825664
The game is meant to be enjoyable. If an element of the game makes it less enjoyable, it might not be a good thing.
>>43825660
Well, wouldn't the confirmation roll generate twice the joy?
>Awesome, I rolled a 20!
Cool, roll to confirm a crit.
>Holy shit, 18! WHOOOOOOOAAAAAA!!
You could say that damage rolls dampen crits as well. It sucks when you get your super awesome mega attack and end up rolling a 1 for damage.
And one more point in favor of critical confirmation. If the players don't have to roll for it any more, neither do the monsters. And monsters frequently have more attacks than the PCs.
>>43825605
They're going less from verisimilitude (this monster is harder to hit, so it's harder to critical hit too) and more from actual game design. Crit confirm, while coming from a neat concept to include in the game, is horrible game design.
>>43825700
>They don't need to go spastic every time they read a number they're just as likely to roll as an 11.
You're undervaluing emotion. Never undervalue emotion.
>>43825798
This is why I liked 4e's system of having crits maximize your damage instead of doubling what you roll. It's less swinging, but at the same time never underwhelming since unless your attack is, like, a single d4 it's still pretty rare to naturally get max damage.
>>43825842
Why is it horrible game design though? It seems solid enough to me, and it serves the "harder to hit, harder to crit" thing too.
>>43825798
>>43825842
It seems that flat d20 rolls are just mechanically unsound here.
>>43825471
>Because creatures don't have +Bazillions to hit
Creatures only miss on nat1 if you're playing against your intended CR
>>43825700
>It happens constantly. They don't need to go spastic every time they read a number they're just as likely to roll as an 11
>As a side note, why doesn't anyone ever show up when I run games
FTFY
>>43825798
I think a source of the 'joy dampening' that arises from failing a critical confirm roll is that there's a sense of loss-- a feeling that the potential crit you rolled is being taken away from you.
Obviously, nothing is being taken away from you, but I still feel a sense of loss as a player whenever I fail to confirm my crit.
It's a useful mechanic due to what one of the earlier posters said: if you're attacking a monster whose AC outclasses your attack bonus, you're going to crit every time you hit (5%) without a confirmed crit.
I'm not saying the rule is bad mechanically. I'm saying it's not fun. Players inevitably get excited when a 20 is rolled and feel a sense of loss or disappointment when they fail to confirm the crit; they feel that something has been taken from them.
>>43825452
There are systems where if rolling a 20 doesn't get you above the monsters defenses, you don't get the double damage. You just get a guaranteed hit.
>>43825769
>If an element of the game makes it less enjoyable, it might not be a good thing.
Ok
>omg rolled crit!
>nope just normal hut
>oh
This easily qualifies as a less enjoyable feature.
>>43825895
It kills a lot of players' fun, and despite having some nice side effects isn't really worth that trade off. Just looking at mechanics while you're not using them is a different thing from when you're actually in the heat of the game and playing them, yknow? Ignoring how rules hold up in that kinda situation is a mistake.
It's like how status effects that are just "skip your turn" might seem neat for a powerful monster to fuck your shit up with, in actual play it's just kinda boring and feels lame.
>>43826001
Yeah, precisely.
>not rolling to confirm the confirmation of the confirmation of the confirmation
>one attack doesn't take at least half an hour
3.5 is too fast
>>43825947
epic meme bro
you sure showed me with that hot spicy shitpost
>>43826045
If you want to confirm the confirmation of your confirmation, you can play an Altar Boy in the Catholic Inception game I'm running.
>>43825297
If I make a walking wall and stack 30 AC, I want that to represent that I already surpass every common 'deadly weakspot'.
On the other hand, having 10 AC also mean you have more of those.
>roll a 20 on an attack
>time to confirm the crit
>roll another 20
I miss that in 5e.
Sure, the whole "if you roll a second 20 and then confirm that, it's an instant kill" was always an optional houserule, but it was a bit of rare fun (if it only applied to the player's attacks).
>>43826054
niceme.me
![[yibis]_One_Piece_563_[480p][9F7381A2].mp4_snapshot_20.20_[2012.09.22_10.58.30].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9lJ9EIU.jpg "[yibis]_One_Piece_563_[480p][9F7381A2].mp4_snapshot_20.20_[2012.09.22_10.58.30].jpg")
>playing 3.5e
I don't see why you shouldn't confirm a critical or a fumble.
If I drop my guard, that is definitely a bad thing, but only if my opponent is skilled enough to exploit it.
20 means "i hit you"
confirmed 20 means "i saw you overextend so i shanked your armpit"
1 means "my grip slipped and i accidentally hit with the flat of my sword"
confirmed 1 means "and the orc noticed, battering my sword out of my hands"
Why not roll a die for your attack, and a different colored die for crit chance at the same time?
But yeah, I agree with >>43825478 here, you already have a chance to deal more or less damage than expected with every hit, so the game would still function without critical hits.
>>43825953
Those are the same kind of players that get disappointed when they realize their actions can have negative consequences.
