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Useful links now here: http://pastebin.com/JtFH682q
Link for the Trove:https://mega.co.nz/#F!3FcAQaTZ!BkCA0bzsQGmA2GNRUZlxzg
Last thread: >>43737531
someone please share swords and wizardry quests of doom edition
>tfw moving to a decent sized city soon
M-maybe I can find a group who wants to play LotFP or Basic with me right guys? Right?
Got a potential role up system I'd like to get some opinions on. Stats are rolled 3d6 in order, then you have to swap out one rolled stat for an 8, one for a 12, and one for a 16. With this method you're guaranteed one bad stat, one good stat and one average stats, which should also help keep some balance in power across all characters.
The only problem I can see is that while it helps improve on shitty rolls, it maybe helps characters who already rolled well more than necessary. It's great if it turns six average stats into one bad stat, one good stat and four average stats, but it's another story if it turns 3 good stats into 4 good stats.
>>43813507
I don't see anything wrong with it, but why even roll if you are using this method.
>>43813434
Minute I went into my local gaming club and slapped down ACKS and explained it was an Original D&D clone I got like a million motherfuckers wanting in.
Dunno if you'd get that for Basic but I don't see why not.
Go check out the student clubs if it's a Uni town, the kids want to try out Grandpa's RPGs cos they've only ever encountered it as hushed legend.
>>43813507
I still say that you can't beat a card draw or random array when it comes to making randomly-generated stats fairer and more balanced.
So I'm giving special mechanics to each class.
>Fighter
Mark down every kill they get, use these to purchase techniques, such as weapon specialization.
Mark down the biggest HD creature they've killed as a trophey. Gets a number of combat rerolls, or max damage or save rerolls, based on HD of this creature.
>Wizards
Learn spells with a dice roll. Result can make the spell weaker or stronger, let you learn it at a higher or lower spell level, and if you need to memorize/prepare the spell or if it can be free cast.
>Thieves/Experts
Try to roll under with a d20 instead of percentile. If they fail they can use Focus dice to try and make the difference, increase in size and number each level. Can also use to reroll failed saves.
>Clerics
Choose their domain and what they can Turn. (God of life turns undead, God of chaos turns constructs/modrons, God of War turns cowards and weaklings, etc)
I'm still figuring how clerics are gonna work but so far I am pleased. How do others like my class mechanics?
Last call for submissions for the zine. I started editing tonight.
>>43816392
>Zine
Explain. I have been piledriving in the frozen north where WiFi does not venture.
>>43815130
Because I'd like to keep the thrill of get a great roll, but keeping everybody on at least a somewhat even playing field, insofar as everyone is guaranteed at least one good and one bad stat.
>>43816450
TroveGuy and a couple of plucky editors are making an OSR fanzine from content donated by anon. Whoever makes these threads really needs to start putting in the following two files.
>>43816959
>>43816959
>>43816974
I'll have to start writing something up for the next month.
>>43816352
I can see it working in a specific kind of game. My only reservation is that it shifts the dynamic a bit. Warrior classes are now specifically incentivized to get into fights and kill monsters - and seem to be required to in order to get the most out of their class abilities. This is a departure from the way a lot of games work. The big thing about gp=xp is that you wind up wanting to actively avoid fights if you can. Combat is a failure state, effectively.
If that's not the kind of game you're running though, it could be neat.
>>43818065
While I do agree with fighting being a last resort, fighters and combat spells are in the game already, they exist for a reason so a Fighter getting better and better at fighting is pretty important in my opinion.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/166517/The-B-X-Rogue
This might be relevant.
>>43818898
>pay 1.50$ for some houserules that get posted every /osrg/
No thanks
>>43816352
>>Wizards
>Learn spells with a dice roll. Result can make the spell weaker or stronger, let you learn it at a higher or lower spell level, and if you need to memorize/prepare the spell or if it can be free cast.
Have fun when one of your players inevitably ends up with free casts of disintegrate por similar.
>>43818315
Players are always going to gravitate towards whatever the incentive mechanism is in a game. If you are working on a gp=xp standard, then the incentive is overwhelmingly to avoid combat whenever possible. It's dangerous, it depletes your resources, and offers very little xp in comparison.
If you create a rule that says "Fighters get power ups based on going out and killing bigger beasts" you're creating a mechanical incentive to go out and pick a fight with larger beasts. Where before you would avoid the giant monster if at all possible, the system now tells you to go out and fight them to earn your power-ups.
I'm all for fighters getting better at fighting (that's part of why I like LotFP - Fighters really shine in their niche) I'd just rather not tie to an incentive mechanism that is at cross purposes with the rest of the party/game.
Now, if you're going with the 2e approach to XP, where gp=xp isn't the default (it's discouraged, in fact), and the primary xp is some combination of monster-fighting, story-bonuses, participation trophies, etc, and individual classes get individual bonuses (rogues get xp bonuses for traps, warriors get additional bonus xp for fights, wizards for spells) then it'd work fine.
>>43813507
>8
>bad
Son, this isn't 4E. People would just swap out the 4 they rolled for an 8.
>>43819499
*Free cast as in it doesn't need to be prepared. They still expend their spell slots/mana/whatever you want to call it, but they don't need a daily prep to cast it as the spell is so strongly nestled into their brain.
Additionally; there is a midway zone where spells will only require a visual aid instead of memorization, similar to spell components or runes on the Wizard's weapons or clothes.
>>43813507
a lot of people seem to struggle with ways to reinvent the 3d6. Never understood that. If you want higher scores in general, go with the 4d6 drop one method.
If you just want to protect someone from getting a single awful score, roll 3d6 7 times and drop the lowest. Or 8 times, and drop the two lowest.
If you want to stick with fair, but dont want someone to get screwed, LotFP's "Is the character suitable? scale is usually good - if the total of your modifiers is less than 0, then you can discard it.
Does anyone have the "700 monster lair descriptions" PDF? Used to be free but disappeared.
>>43819535
So even if the primary way to get XP is gold and treasure having an incentive for Warrior's to track their kills will split the party heavily?
I don't know how to respond to that. On one hand I agree but I also think you might be exaggerating the consequences.
>>43819721
>I also think you might be exaggerating the consequences.
He's not saying "disaster will ensue", he's saying the rule creates a perverse incentive, which isn't ideal. That's all. I wouldn't say that's crying doom exactly.
>>43820296
True, but then I'd like to know ways to tie them together.
At least, one method that I can see that seems pretty simple is to tie the maximum number of Techniques to the character's level + Int Mod. This way you have to keep advancing in level and doing important shit, else you won't be able to learn new techniques. Coincidentally, this means a smart fighter gets a little bonus. Something small but sweet.
>>43819535
>If you are working on a gp=xp standard, then the incentive is overwhelmingly to avoid combat whenever possible.
Well no shit. Hide the treasure behind combat, if they somehow avoid it then that's great. It shows they aren't dumb fucks. What kind of adventurer goes out of their way to risk their lives when they can do something smart and get all the rewards?
So, I'm going through the stone-age game's rules tweaking and fine tuning.
Currently, you get ten items of equipment. You don't have mechanically 'better' or 'worse' items that cost more or less, since weapons that do smaller damage have other benefits (like being usable whilst wrestling). Armour is bought piece-by-piece, with each bit protecting a location from called shots and giving +1 AC.
I'm looking at the attributes, and INT feels like the obvious dumpstat to me. It only really gets used for medicine, art (which is mostly useful if you're doing magic) and crafting skill rolls. So, unless you're specializing in medicine and herbalism, or a magician, Int is a good dump stat.
My thoughts: Have good int give you more equipment, since you'll be better at making stuff and plan ahead more. Options I'm looking at:
a) You get ten items, adjusted by your Int modifier.
b) you get one item per point of raw Int (which nicely parallels encumbrance where you can carry 1 item per point of strength before you get weighed down).
c) it doesn't add enough to the game for the extra complexity, and it's the stone age so being dumb is perfectly fine; keep things as they are.
Your thoughts, people?
>>43820573
Personally I think that making every stat useful is a good call. This opens up the door at least a little to people playing things like smart fighters or strong wizards and so on; unexpected combos that make for interesting characters.
Giving more gear for Int makes a lot of sense and is useful too.
>>43820573
>Armour is bought piece-by-piece, with each bit protecting a location from called shots and giving +1 AC.
Armor systems like this make me hard desu.
>>43820696
Currently the stats are used for the following
>strength is to hit in close-quarters, all damage rolls, encumberance, and athletics & vandalism skill rolls
>dexterity is AC, to hit with missiles, saves against Hazards (basically reflex saves) and Stealth skill rolls
>constitution is flesh & grit points (basically 'real' and 'plot armour' HP), holding breath and saves against weather conditions & poison
>intelligence is medicine, crafting and art skill rolls (and potentially starting gear, too)
>wisdom is saves against magic, surprise rolls, and tracking & foraging skill rolls
>charisma is reaction rolls, attracting tribes of followers, social rolls and rolls dealing with animals.
So, looking at that, INT seems to be slightly short changed as every other attribute has 4 things it's good for (some of which every character cares about) whilst INT only deals with three things, all of them things you can afford to ignore if you aren't a specialist.
>>43820766
>Vandalism
I saw that in that book as a skill. What the hell is vandalism? I'm guessing its like bend bars/lift gates sort of thing?
>>43820766
I feel like intelligence should sorta be treated like Luck from Fallout. Slight boosts to everything else. I mean, being intelligent gives you tools to improve everything you do, right? This is represented okay in 3e with skills I guess. That or int unlocks psionic powers. But that's a whole other can of worms.
But anyway, you do what you want. I'm just rambling.
>>43820314
>True, but then I'd like to know ways to tie them together.
I would say that isn't possible. Anything that urges players to kill monsters is necessarily at odds with trying to get them to stay away from them as much as possible. It's up to you to decide whether you can live with that.
>>43820919
>bars/lift gates sort of thing?
pretty much this, yes. It's your 'I want to break stuff' roll. I'm thinking of taking it out and just letting people apply their strength mod on the rolls for equipment wear-and-tear when they try to break shit.
>>43819179
What specific house rules are there in this?
>>43819179
I found his Vivimancer useful (Trove, LL), so it might be worth checking.
>>43819553
I'm okay with that.
>>43813507
If you want heroic characters give them 2d6+6. Honestly though, with OSR modifiers, 3d6 is fine unless you get horrid luck. Even then, it's never unplayable.
>>43820573
I think I'd go with b.
>>43820573
A or B is good, but with B I could see a magician starting out with more stuff than he can carry pretty easily.
>>43820573
I think these bonus items systems are nice, but in that they're a one-time bennie they don't seem to really solve the dump stat problem. I would maybe want something combat-related, like an initiative bonus -- I don't know if you do individual initiative, though, I haven't read through your game.
Any body ever play the PC Game Wizardry 7? Is there a tabletop system that is similar to this?
>>43824490
I tie INT along with DEX to my "reflex" saves, so you can either avoid the thing that comes at you, or figure out what's coming and already be moving.
>>43820573
>Your thoughts, people?
Standard starting kits, so as not to boggle down chargen with choosing starting items.
Intelligence modifier might increase/decrease chance of breaking equipment (add modifier to the roll?). It also fits the idea of Int as crafting proficiency.
I don't really like the idea of using Int for starting equipment. It's a one-time bonus.
>>43812906
What are your favorite old school blogs, /osrg/? I personally like Goblin Punch a lot
>>43820333
> Well no shit. Hide the treasure behind combat, if they somehow avoid it then that's great. It shows they aren't dumb fucks. What kind of adventurer goes out of their way to risk their lives when they can do something smart and get all the rewards?
It's always weird when someone is both combative and agreeing with me at the same time. Uh, thanks anon?
>>43819721
I'm not saying it would necessarily split the party OR that disaster would ensue. It just creates incentives that work against each other - and the warrior would be the only person in the game who is incentivized to go against the general will of the party. It's kind of like how cops have a financial incentive in a lot of US cities to write tickets. I'm not saying that means they will write more tickets because of it, but you can certainly see how they might be encouraged to find reasons to write them where before they might have let it slide.
> On one hand I agree but I also think you might be exaggerating the consequences.
I'm honestly not even that concerned about the consequences so much as the design. Systems giving mixed messages bug me. This guy gets it >>43820296 It isn't the worst thing ever, but it is a bit awkward.
>>43820314
> True, but then I'd like to know ways to tie them together.
Any incentive of "go kill monsters" is going to be irreconcilable with "avoid monsters when possible." If that doesn't bother you though, then it's a non-issue.
On the other hand, I wouldn't at all be opposed to giving the warrior characters a handful of special abilities they can learn as they progress in level, or basing it on intelligence. You might look at something like ACKS system for proficiencies and then just weight the combat stuff to warrior characters.
>>43820573
I wouldnt want my Int bonus to be spent in something that can be taken away from me (like weapons or gear). Instead, why not make Int grant a bonus based on its modifier - each point of that modifier can either be used to add a known language or increase a skill by one.
That's how my Hyborean hack does it, currently
>>43827869
Currently browsing False Machine. I found there some much-needed inspiration for my Underdark setting. My only complaint is "not enough".
Also, Roles Rules and Rolls - for game mechanics.
>>43827869
Back when he was still updating it was definitely Jeff's Gameblog. Rients had the perfect proportion of giving a shit to not giving a shit.
Now... I don't exactly know. Gorgonmilk's insanely productive but something rubs me the wrong way with everything he makes. Zak's blog's decent, but it's obvious that he saves his A game for the books these days and I can't blame him, they're all great so far. Huge Ruined Scott's basically AWOL despite having a new blog, but everything he does write is great, Zagyg bless him. I think I'll say Dyson's blog, nothing to complain about in those maps and he's damn generous with them, even in IP terms.
(It seems like I miss a lot these days by refusing to join the G+ Chinese hugboxes, incidentally.)
Oh by the way, does anyone have a PDF of the final Dwarf-Land draft? I'm still sad that never got finished.
>>43827869
For my tastes, D&D With Pornstars, Last Gasp Grimoire, Tenfoot polemic
>>43827869
I'm partial to false machine, all the wackiness of goblin punch but with more words.
>>43830853
I fucking hate the way he writes. I can't understand or remember any of his articles. Goblin Punch is GOAT
How do I make a solid one-shot dungeon?
I've read that one article on five room dungeons and it seems like a great way of compartmentalizing the process, but how does that translate to graph paper, wandering monsters, etc.? Most of the examples I've seen are way too abstract.
>>43832836
I'm not on the computer so I can't give an example but what exactly do you need help with?
>>43832995
Mostly advice.
I want something that will definitely last one session, even if it runs short.
A combination of combat, puzzles, traps, and general exploration.
Aimed at a mix of newbie/experienced players, without feeling stale.
To that end, something low-level. Not fighting a dragon, but something more interesting than Kobold Warren #53.
>>43820573
This is a problem in the base game as well, especially in OSR because of the emphasis on player skill over rolling for everything and relying on avatar strength. You don't LARP your combat stuff, so Strength is good, but you make your own decisions and are encouraged not to be suicidal even if you have low Intelligence. Ultimately, your character ends up being about as smart as you are, no matter what your stats say. Other than specialist roles (magic-users), it never gets tested as an Ability for actions. You don't have to test Intelligence to make a smart play; that's just player skill.
I'm writing a retroclone and I made sure to give Intelligence some of the strongest benefits at higher scores so that people would actually consider not re-rolling good Int with other bad scores, or dumping Int.
>>43834411
>I'm writing a retroclone and I made sure to give Intelligence some of the strongest benefits at higher scores
What benefits did you assign to it?
>>43834799
I'll have to explain some of the details of the system. The reason I'm writing the system is to create a minimalist skeleton of setting agnostic rules for OSR adventure, trying to analyze the core identity of each game rule, and remove everything superfluous. I'm trying to build a solid foundation for a long series of future OSR campaigns.
I removed classes, because they are rules-bloated for no real reason. The point of classes is to have rules for getting stronger at the things you can do. Because classes restrict you to doing only specific things, extra rules need to be added constantly to create classes that mix skills, like magic and thievery. Either that or you just can't.
In my system, you train in skills to get stronger. It's a create-your-own class thing, balanced around the fact that no skill exists that isn't regularly useful and no skill renders any other obsolete. Because of the modular nature of the rules, the Judge is encouraged to swap out and add skills based on the current campaign to balance everything.
At scores 14 and higher, you gain the most powerful of all Ability adjustments: an increase to skill points. It roundly makes you a more powerful character. It may seem overpowered at face value, but Intelligence score is almost never tested for anything so it's practically worthless apart from the adjustments it gives you.
Other things you get from it include a bonus to Initiative and Defense, because being smarter lets you anticipate the moves of your enemies, as well as an increased chance for critical hits, from an analytical mind. Furthermore, really low scores give you PENALTIES to all of the above ,so being stupid actually means something, and it can be very bad.
>>43835047
Bravo Anon, I'm a big fan of the Int system you've built. I am so butthurt about the divide between player intelligence and character Intellegence that I try to think of ways to change it or siphon it out. Hell, just change it to a Magic stat, but if this could influence magic items then it could be useful for anyone. But that was just one idea.
>>43836486
Because magic, fighting, thievery, crafting, etc. are all governed by the same skill progression rules, Intelligence helps magic-users just as much as fighters, thieves, clerics, or multi-class and specialist class types.
I think the word butthurt fails to reflect my own feelings. I love player skill. It just creates a problem specifically for Intelligence as an Ability score. And D&D as-written always chooses to ignore it, letting everyone who isn't a magic-user dump it. You need house rules or an alternate system for smart, weak fighters to be equal to dumb, strong fighters.
>use magic items
I chose to rule in favor of a Charisma test for this, but you could test for Intelligence to create a magic item, particularly one that requires extra planning and forethought to enchant.
>>43836655
>magic is charisma
Hate this meme. Intellegence makes more sense to me. Magic items are often activated by specific motions or words, which would fall more under Int to Remember. If you want to say it involves force of will I'd say this is close to concentration anyway.
Charisma is already good enough, being able to convince and persuade others to do what you want should be enough.
>>43837420
Charisma makes more sense to me because King Arthur using his inner power to invoke the power of Excalibur has nothing to do with how smart he is.
Using a magic item is either a matter of will (and Charisma is a form of extrinsic willpower: the power to influence the wills of others) or a matter of following instructions, depending on the item.
In the case of the latter, I elect not to bring Intelligence dice tests into it because I'd prefer players to figure out things for themselves rather than just roll to do it against a stat, so they actually need to learn the secret word to activate the magic, or whatever it may be.
>>43837420
> Charisma is already good enough, being able to convince and persuade others to do what you want should be enough.
If you really want to talk about memes, "charisma is a dump stat" is far more common than "charisma is magic."
The casting stat all depends on how you envision magic in the world/setting. If it's ceremonial nonsense with charts and diagrams, runes and arcane phrases performed through exacting formula, then intelligence makes perfect sense.
If it's about spiritual gnosis, enlightenment, altered states of consciousness shit, then wisdom is your best bet.
If magic is something you get a "Feel" for, or is an intrinsic part of your being, then it would be based on your force of personality- so. Charisma.
>>43837952
I personally prefer it if it is a mix of all three, or rather a person can make up for a deficiency in one area by making it up with great talent and training in the other two. Or maybe even make up a lacking in two areas with a flawless understanding of one; but the truly great have skills in all 3, I'd say.
Speaking of which, I'd like to get a little feedback. It seems in old school games you kind of have an even split between magical and nonmagical classes for the most part; Clerics and Wizards being magical, Fighters and Thieves non-magical. If you include race as class, then Elf is yet another magical and dwarf nonmagical, so its still even. Halflings are like some weird middle ground so not sure about them.
Anyway; with this in mind though, I'm trying to think of new magical classes to round out if I want to add in a new martial class (Ranger?), but I'm really not a fan of DnD style Sorcerers. What's an interesting alternative?
>>43838188
>Halflings are like some weird middle ground
Wha? Halflings don't have any magic.
Anyway, I wouldn't be so principled about it if I were you. Especially if you're adding a non-caster class, almost all problems and annoyance come from caster bloat (with the notable exception of the Cavalier).
>>43838188
You could always go with druids or shaman.. but frankly I wouldn't worry about making sure that martials and caster classes were represented in even numbers. There are a whole lot more viable not-magic archetypes than there are magical-person archetypes. Part of the strength of someone simply being a "magic user" is that it's fairly broad. Even moreso than with martials, if you wind up with a half-dozen kinds of magic classes, you've either got to have a ton of substantially different spell-systems, or you just wind up with a lot of people playing reskinned versions of the same thing. (I've always hated druids for this reason)
This seems like the best thing to introduce my roomies to RPGs with, with some minor houserules thrown in. Any module/adventure suggestions to run with this?
>>43841459
Okay, help me out here, because I might be blind: what's the drawback for players in choosing Elite weapons? I can't find any.
>>43839922
I've always felt the druid, along with the bard and maybe the ranger, is one of the few classes distinct enough to justify its existence.
>>43842402
None at all, that I can see. Light weapons are more concealable. Artillery ought to do more damage if the enemy is low level/HD, but once they've increased they'll be passing those trivial saves all the time, meaning you need a 4d6 to beat the d10's 5.5 average.
Heavy wtheeapons are a joke, they're as poweful as the dagger or sling in average output.
This is not well designed.
>>43842613
Oh, no I take that back, heavy weapons take two turns OR use both hands. I misread it to say "take two turns AND use both hands." Actually taking two turns would be silly, though, because that cuts your damage output in half.
>>43842652
That's the "elephant gun", i think.
You shoot it, and then it takes a turn to reload. Not that bad, if you just drop it and start stabbing next round.
>>43842402
>>43842613
I'm wondering if there's a missing rule to say that you can only choose between light, medium and heavy weapons and the last two categories are there for DM reference.
>>43839922
I agree, but I think taking a line from PF and making an Alchemist is pretty cool. Some of those extracts and extracts are super cool.
>>43842462
I've never liked druids. First because I've always hated the way they just become nature-hippies.. but second because they are essentially just clerics that worship nature-themed deities. I already tailor cleric spell lists to their deities, so druids are superfluous.
I actually like rangers quite a bit, but ive never really cared for the spellcasting aspect. We wound up replacing that. Bards are okay. They are jack-of-all-trades characters.
>>43843727
> taking a line from PF
The class was introduced in Dragon Magazine, issue 2. Take a line from OSR, like god intended.
>>43843761
I actually knew that, but PF Alchemists are more exciting and interesting in my opinion. I'll make a hybrid of both, I like the detect poison and potion making of old school and the more magical powers of PFs Alchemist class.
>>43843937
Alchemists are a weird subject for me. I've always liked the idea, but I find it hard to come up with a mechanism to use them that isn't just "im basically a wizard, but with bottles."
>>43843974
If you keep the spells really biological and thrown it makes sense to me.
Like throwing a flaming potion is a lot different then a fireball. Or a potion that let's you stretch your arms out and attack at range or a potion that makes your blood glue so weapons that hit you get stuck, my kind of shit.
Also giving Alchemists d6 health makes a lot of sense to to fit in with this.
>>43843974
Same for me, more or less. You can try just letting them make potions, but then it becomes extremely hard to create a system that neither costs them gold or XP in an unfair way, or lets them just churn out heaps and piles of potions.
>>43829594
seconding the /r/ for the Dorf Land pdf
>>43845051
>a system that neither costs them gold or XP
You might consider using bits and pieces of defeated monsters. The higher the HD, the more potions Alchemist can make out of them.
Though, I'd rather ditch the whole "arcane caster" idea and have potions/magic items creation instead, with rare ingredients and stuff. Though, that would take quite a few pages and will be equivalent to new magic system.
I'm sure I'm going to get some flak for this but;
I'm really not a fan of how Fighters are both for melee and ranged fighting prowess. I feel like Rangers would be a better fit for a ranged-fighting class.
>>43812906
Anyone got Castle Zagyg stuff? It's not in the Trove and I want to run the definite Castle Greyhawk for my players.
This is an odd request but does anyone have the Gord the Rouge books which Gygax wrote?
>>43846258
Not odd! Those seem to contain more of Gygax's own original Greyhawk than the dedicated setting products.
What are you reading right now?
I finished everything by Vance and I'm looking for something else.
>>43846730
Did you read the Book of the New Sun? I don't know how well it applies to D&D (definitely the gonzo side if it does though), but it's a mind-crackingly good read.
Otherwise the standard /osrg/ recommendation's Leiber, of course.
>>43846730
Check out Nifft the Lean by Michael Shea, or the Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser stories by Fritz Leiber.
>>43846258
I wish I did. I've been looking for those, and Maze of Peril by John Holmes, the editor of Holmes Basic, for a while.
Speaking of Greyhawk, I've been playing pic related, D&D: Rise of Warduke, it's great so far.
>>43846258
>>43846792
Gygax's books are up on BookZZ.
>>43846792
Get into contact with Dr. Holmes's son (grandson??).
He's a really nice and helpful guy.
I'm sure he could help hook you up.
>>43846792
>dat gif
Please tell me that's the D&D game available through Steam.
>>43848146
Nope, it's a fan-made thing for OpenBOR. It's full of copyright infringement, and had some takedowns, but it's still available on the net if you search around a bit. The latest release is ~300 megs, and there's a patch to fix some issues with it, mainly regarding player 2.
I had to use borpak to package the files up on Linux before it would work, though, since the author was really sloppy with his filenames.
It plays kind of like the old Capcom games, Shadow over Mystara and Tower of Doom, but expanded and improved, with a world map, quests, item shops, random encounters, etc.
>>43819695
Seconding this.
>>43833354
Run exactly what you said- Kobold Warren #53. Brief lore blurb that Kobolds used to be heavily organised, militarized, and interconnected across the setting. Head over to the Fallout Wiki and check out the different social experiments used for the Vaults. Pick one that sounds fun, add a kobold twist. Bam, Kobold Warren #53 just got a lot more strange. Throw in some combats with strange mechanics, like pitfalls, extra traps, stationary statues that shoot arrows at randomly determined enemies/allies each round, or if you can manage it, moving floors. (I suggest graph paper and note cards). Throw in switches with unlabled effects.
I dunno, I'm making this up as I go along, but I want to be helpful.
bump
>>43827869
D&Dw/pornstars
Goblin Punch
Necropraxis
and I've started reading stuff in Methods & Madness. It's solid Old School info.
A question to fellow /osr/ites: Which was the first OSR edition you played? Was it "back in the day"? Was it your first exposure to roleplaying?
Pic related for me.
>>43853423
The very same, but in Finnish. So very, *very* long time ago. I still have the box.
>>43853423
I started with 1e.
Rolled 1, 3, 6, 2, 2, 2, 3, 6, 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 2 = 62 (18d6)
>>43813507
Rollan
>>43853518
Yes, mine was also translated. It was (glomp) almost 19 years ago.
>>43853647
STR 10 -> 12
DEX 6 -> 8
CON 10 -> 16
INT 11
WIS 12
CHA 13
This is kind of cool. I like it.
I feel like it's more powerful than 4d6 drop lowest, which isn't necessarily bad, depending on your game.
>>43853690
I got mine as a birthday gift in 1989 (the Finnish edition came out in 1988). The Red Box, along with the Finnish editions of Runequest and 2300AD (all of which came out around the same time, I think) started me on this road to darkness.
>>43849457
>>43819695
Just downloaded it especially for you guys.
>>43853755
You're da bomb!
>>43853423
Basic D&D in grade school around 1984 or so. The rules were fudged quite a bit, and we only had d6s, because our DM's older brother wouldn't let him bring the books and dice (which belonged to the brother) to school. Still, it was a blast.
>>43853755
You're a pretty cool guy, anon.
So I'm trying to figure out how to make Clerics work in my hombrew.
I kind of want to reduce the amount of 'miracles' they cast because I want to keep those more mysterious and 'miraculous'. Instead, most clerical workings are done through consecrating energy/aura that represents the Cleric's chosen path.
This aura works on 4 distinct things; On a creature, object, area, or used when turning.
Every God/religion turns a specific thing determined at character creation. Gods of Life turn Undead, Gods of Choas turn constructs, Gods of War turn weaklings and cowards, etc.
The only problem I have so far is that with this not all clerics will necessarily be healers. Do you think it would be best to manipulate this system as to ensure all clerics can heal in some way? Or do you think allowing each to develop more with their own religion is better?
tl;dr Should all clerics be heal bots or do you think its ok if some aren't?
>>43837462
Charisma is a stupid stat
Is The Esoteric Monster Creator & The Dungeon Alphabet in the trove?
>>43846730
>What are you reading right now?
>I finished everything by Vance and I'm looking for something else.
Howard actually. Been a while since I have re-read his stuff. Have you found anything to read?
So, Lamentations of the flame Princess. I have heard about it before but, I just found it in the trove. Can anyone give me a quick breakdown of the ruleset?
>>43856069
Personally, I like it. But as you can see in this other thread, there's a lot of butthurt surrounding it.
Check it out here: >>43844846
>>43856069
B/X inspired retroclone
more horror/weird fantasy focus
heavy metal /grindhouse horror aesthetic that isn't for everyone
pseudo historical setting
race as class (as most B/X games are)
Fighters are the only ones that increases
Specialists are the only ones that improve skills
great encumbrance system
fire arm rules
its assumed the players get hirelings.
I really like it.
>lotfp modules and setting books I recommend
Death Frost Doom
Better Than Any Man
The God that Crawls
Vornheim
Red and Pleasant Land
Scenic Dunnsmouth
>>43812906
I'm a DM, and new to OSR.
Where do I get experience running OSR games with players who won't either bitch about the game being too hard or complain about me knowing 'how to DM' despite it being my first time in OSR?
I want experience, because the concept of OSR appeals to me.
Any 'first-timer' rules or modules?
>>43855813
Yes, both files are there.
>>43856313
LOTFP has a referee book
there's like 2 OSR primers
be sure to the tell the players that if they play OSR games like later editions they're not going to have much success or fun
>>43856337
Great! Do you know which folder?
>>43856313
Read that one OSR primer.
Maybe run or at least read LotFP's Tower of the Stargazer. It has sidebars that explain the traps and puzzles and rules from the Referee's perspective, and how to run them.
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4238/roleplaying-games/the-art-of-rulings
Read this. Apply it to newer games too, if you want. Make it clear to the players in advance. You can tap a floor with a ten foot pole, no roll required.
>>43856178
>Personally, I like it. But as you can see in this other thread, there's a lot of butthurt surrounding it.
Will have a look. What do you like about the system?
>>43856254
>more horror/weird fantasy focus
>heavy metal /grindhouse horror aesthetic that isn't for everyone
Is this reflected in the system?
>great encumbrance system
What makes it great?
>its assumed the players get hirelings.
?
>>43856313
>I'm a DM, and new to OSR.
Welcome!
>Where do I get experience running OSR games with players who won't either bitch about the game being too hard or complain about me knowing 'how to DM' despite it being my first time in OSR?
Among friends usually. Among strangers the "ability" of a DM matters. Are you confident in your DM skills?
>I want experience, because the concept of OSR appeals to me.
Good.
>Any 'first-timer' rules or modules?
Not ones you should not have already heard of. Create a crawler and go from there.
>>43856893
First it's simple, has interesting magic, FIREARMS, its "set" int the 30 years war time period, it's compatible with the Gazetteer stuff, (mostly for Orcs of Thar).
However there's some crap in it that I would NEVER run in a game. Eat the meat, spit out the bones. Take what you like and run with it.
>>43856893
>Is this reflected in the system?
more in the fluff really. magic has some odd spells though like Summon
>What makes it great?
Its simple to keep track. Encumbrance ties in with movement. the more shit you carry, the slower you move. the character sheet has a built in list.
heavier armor and big weapons take up more encumberance slots.
>its assumed the players get hirelings.
henchman, torchbearers, link boys. guys that carry stuff
>>43856942
>Among strangers the "ability" of a DM matters. Are you confident in your DM skills?
Not the guy you're replying to, but what counts as "DM skills" and how much does this matter with strangers?
I always seem to join awful groups who spend half the game on their smartphones or chatting.
But I'm also absolutely terrified I'll join (or agree to run for) a group who are experienced improv actors with literature degrees.
This seems more relevant for OSR, because even if it's your typical hack-and-slash dungeon crawl, you can't fall back on the rules as much. I have no idea what the hell a dungeon is. What's a halberd? How do portcullises work? Is it possible to smash through a stone door with a longsword?
Maybe I should pick up some physics books or Osprey manuals or something.
>>43857249
>I have no idea what the hell a dungeon is.
A literal, real world, dungeon is a prison, usually underground and dark.
>What's a halberd?
Imagine a spear that also has an axe on the side of the tip.
>How do portcullises work?
They are risen with a lever atached to a chain, usually located on the floor above the portcullis.
>Is it possible to smash through a stone door with a longsword
No unless the door is very thin.
I though roleplayers used to have more historical knowledge, specially in the OSR.
>>43819499
Free web probably is more game breaking than free disintegrates, unless they just start disintegrating 10x10 cubes through dungeons.
Could some kind anon point me to the folder(s) that have The Esoteric Monster Creator & The Dungeon Alphabet in the trove?
I've been looking in there and I can't seem to find them.
>>43858354
Both in the GM resources folder, anon.
>>43858410
Thanks man!
>>43812906
Do you ever find yourself wishing characters in old school games had more HP? I know the idea is to avoid combat, but it seems like a pretty serious design constraint when the players can't take any punishment. What's the point of giving monsters special effect on its attack like acid or poison, when even D6 base damage already has a chance to oneshot a PC?
PDF related is one of my favorite ways of handling it. You can hypothetically take much more damage than you have HP, but after you fall to 0 everything runs the risk of inflicting serious or even permanent injury. I think Adventurer Conqueror Kings does something similar.
>>43861101
>Do you ever find yourself wishing characters in old school games had more HP?
No. I like that shit the way it is, that's why I'm here.
>What's the point of giving monsters special effect on its attack like acid or poison, when even D6 base damage already has a chance to oneshot a PC?
There isn't much of one, which is why few to no low-HD do that. I can't be arsed to look it up properly, but I'm pretty sure in at least one edition of Basic a small viper does no HP damage, a hit only provokes a save vs. poison or die. Which makes sense, you can't really expect someone to die from a snakebite per se.(And notice how for many Basic-level characters that's one more saving throw than they'd get from a killing blow, so for them it's actually slightly *less* lethal. Terrifying for a fighter, though.)
>>43861101
Yes, I view it as the greatest flaw. All it does is make the party have to lean on mages & elf/fightermages, or rely on a DM that's overly kind and generous (like Robilaresque follower abuse, which would not fly in most people's game), or generally rely on retarded gimmicks.
Basically one of the failings of OSR is that level 1 is flat out unwinnable for some chars, BEFORE you get to shit like poison, traps, OSR's many unavoidable ambushes, and bad luck.
Gamma World 4e probably had the best take on HP, typically PCs would have about as much HP as a level 10 rogue and then have slower growth after that, never been sure what the point of having level 5 pcs have 500% the hp of a level 1 char is.
What does /osr/ think of Adventurer Conqueror King? Looking esp. to get feedback on the rulership / domain management aspects/ Thanks!
>left the thread
>looked at the rest of the board, checked out the RC and LotFP threads, some other stuff
Jesus Christ I'd forgotten how toxic the rest of /tg/ is. How the hell did we even manage to get here?
>>43862237
Care to share what ACKS's mass combat is like?
>>43862237
>What does /osr/ think of Adventurer Conqueror King?
I think we can safely say that /osrg/ loves ACKS on the whole. It's a frequent recommendation when people ask for a game; its Rules Cyclopedia-esque format and economics/domain stuff are pretty universally praised strong points. Some people like the concessions to 3E-style customization, others don't.
>>43862304
>Care to share what ACKS's mass combat is like?
I'm asking for the opinions of others because I know nothing about it and my time is sharply limited, preventing me from experimenting for shits and giggles.
>>43861101
>>43862218
Why don't you guys just start characters off on level 3 then? That's probably the easiest, most manageable house rule for it.
>>43862339
Oh, thought you were a dev looking for likes, nevermind.
Hey, does anyone have any experience with Retro Phaze? How is it in play?
>>43862367
>Oh, thought you were a dev looking for likes, nevermind.
No problem bro.
>>43861101
One of the things I actively dislike about newer editions is the HP bloat. The higher the HP, the longer fights will drag - or the higher damage has to be, making the higher HP pointless.
On the other hand, we don't play 0HP=death, either. Instead, at 0HP you go down and roll on a table to find out what kind of terrible wounds you've recieved, only some of which result in death.
>>43862694
I really don't understand why people think later editions had such bad HP bloat. Yes, the numbers are bigger, but most sources of damage are also considerably higher.
>>43862694
Why not keep the system lower then?
Instead of rolling for hit dice, you get your Con + class bonus + race bonus.
Classes could be;
>Wizard -1
>Thief +0
>Cleric +1
>Fighter +2
Races could be;
>Dwarf +1
>Humans +0
>Elvf -1
>Halflings -2
Fighters could also gain +1 max HP per level, giving them more combat prowess.
Does anyone have Castle Zagyg? It's not in the Trove.
So I feel a bit like an ass. I want to run an old school style game but am pretty shit with DnD rules and never really played them before. However I have a homebrew system which I know (because I invented) and could possibly switch it to this older playstyle.
Which do you think would result in a better game/play session? Using DnD which I don't know perfeclty or my homebrew which isn't DnD but I know much better?
>>43863110
I feel like this could totally work, but if you want higher level characters to be more survivable you could add in certain things;
>Fighters get more HP, they are fine
>Theives get to start rerolling failed saves or rolling to dodge attacks, they are so fast they are hard to even hit
>Wizards can start equipping failsafe spells and magical shields, giving them a lot more survivability
>Clerics inherit miracles that allow their Gods to save them from pretty much anything, but they are limited in number.
>>43863088
>>43862694
Great question. 3e gave nondamage spells a huge boost (scaling saves) and boosted monster HP but kept spell damage basically the same, so that was serious HP creep, but limited.
4e had pretty serious HP creep but at least got rid of 1 nondamaged spell->enemy team wiped.
>>43864306
Clerics and wizards aren't so bad as is, but rogues are utterly fucked as far as defenses.
>>43855449
Nobody?
>>43865092
Eh, clerics turned to general priests of everything ever really aren't really what I'd consider OSR. If you really want to, however, check out latter day 2e. It has 5 well balanced specialty priests (clerics & druids, sure, but also crusaders, monks, and shamans).
If you want more specialized than that, 2e Forgotten Realms has a shitload of kinds of specialty priests.
I really don't think turning vs everything fits OSR very well, though.
>>43865092
>>43855449
If you're going full-on dungeon crawling style, something to consider with this variation is the possibility of a party without any sort of readily-available healing. To be fair, that's a big hole that absolutely needs to be addressed before attempting any prolonged dungeon crawl.
Personally, I love it when clerics aren't relegated to the role of healbot, but there definitely needs to be well-thought-out consequences because of that. Whether you allow for the binding of wounds post-battle, access to minor (or even major) healing potions of varying efficacy, or absolutely nothing besides bed rest and knowing when to run the fuck away, you need to figure out how not having consistent access to magic healing will affect your game world.
I actually like the concept of 4e's Healing Surges, in that every class has some minor healing ability, and can pop their Second Wind once a day to activate that (on top of other class abilities). It's one way to get rid of the concept of clerics as walking heals. It also places more on the player the decision of when to get that small boost, and when flight is better than fight.
Has anyone ever figured out a way to write a Mountebank class that wasn't some combination of discount alchemist and discount illusionist?
>>43865309
Maybe that's what Hit dice are for?
You roll your hit die on a rest to restore health for that rest. You get a reroll for each person that gives you medical attention and can take the highest of any of the rolls.
This would also work well if you used a early cap HP system, such as >>43863110
>>43865521
5e does something very similar to that, where you can roll the various hit dice you've accumulated up to the current point during short rests to recover HP. It's not a bad system either, but again, the consequences of such a system need to be weighed.
For example, the higher the level, the more hit dice a character will have, the more HP they can recover between long rests, the less lethal the game will be as a whole, and the more active in adventuring the party as a whole can be. Bigger risks can be taken, and adventures in dungeons and whatnot will last for longer periods of time, both in-game and in real life.
There's probably more that will come up, but those are some of the consequences of such a system. I'm not saying it's a bad system either, as I can say I appreciated 5e for what it was trying to do. As I keep mentioning though, it is something that absolutely will need to be worked out at some point in any halfway decent game.
>>43865835
I understand that may be 5e's way of doing things, but here's more what I was thinking;
>Characters have a set amount of HP at char gen based on race, stats, class
>Only class that gets more as they level is Fighter
>Occasionally; rare magic or potions may be permanent boosts to HP (just in general)
>At a good rest, all classes roll 2 hit dice of their class while resting(?)
It could be 2 or maybe just 1, I kind of like 2 so it makes a probability curve. (Wizards gonna average 5, Thieves 7, Clerics 9 and Warriors 11)
That way there is some degree of uniformity. Maybe Con mod grants a bonus, but since con already influences HP maybe you get an Int bonus for patching up wounds? I kind of like that, but then again I may be trying too hard to tie in excess stats and stuff.
>>43865896
In fact I'll go one step further.
Using the average of 3d6 drop lowest method, you'll find 13 is the most common result. Using this, we could see that most characters will have 13 HP + modifiers. I'm still not sure what the modifiers will be yet, but having a 13 base HP seems pretty reasonable to me.
You'll die in a minimum of 3 hits with a regular monster/weapon roll. You can heal a portion of it with a rest, possibly all if you are a Warrior but otherwise you'll just get a breather.
I'm liking this so far. I'd like to flesh it out and put it on the zine for Month 2, if anyone else has anything else to contribute.
>>43855449
I got rid of clerics entirely and filed all the things they could do under magic-user. Because in real life everything associated with clerics is a form of magic (healing is shamanism, which is a form of spellcasting), or it's stuff that Jesus or another miracle worker did in the Bible, in which case it's not really appropriate for the kinds of dungeon crawl settings I'm doing.
I'm not really sure where this stereotype of irreligious "magic scientist" wizards came from. All wizardry was religious in nature through history, through rituals, commune with spirits/gods, and such.
Also since the DM controls the spells it never gets out of hand in terms of power level either of course as always.
>>43829594
where's huge ruined scott's new blog?
>>43866511
Die in a fire
Now this is an idea I wouldn't necessarily spring on players but recently I thought of it;
What if all damage was stat damage?
Somehow, damage you take in a fight is allocated to your stats. A knife to the gut is Con, acid splashed in the face is Wis, bonk on the head is Int, scar on the face or a burn could be Charisma, etc.
You die when stats go to zero.
The only problem I see so far is the inherent difference in the total number of stats for the various characters, but using an array or some other sub system could balance this. What do you think?
>>43867132
Even if you find a way to make it balanced, I wouldn't use it. It would rob me of those "that fucker drains con??!" moments with my party. When stat damage is commonplace, no one finds it surprising anymore.
>>43867132
Traveller uses this system.
So if someone were to hypothetically want to create a nice PDF of their hypothetical homebrew retro clone and then hypothetically post it here what would be the typical reaction? Would anyone play it?
>>43868401
>what would be the typical reaction?
Typically? Very little reaction. Some stuff does catch people's attention, but for the most part, people don't want to spend the time to digest a new system. I mean, somebody is probably going to get something from it, but they may well be part of the silent majority, so you might not get any feedback. Or you might just get a snide remark or two, given where you are. But if you're not overly sensitive, then you don't really have anything to lose. Just don't expect the adulation that your hours of hard work deserve. And don't hold your breath for people to actually play your game. I mean, it *could* happen, but the odds aren't in your favor.
>>43868401
I post my stuff sometimes, the reaction tends to be fairly interested, and I've heard a few people saying they might run it.
The thing is, your game needs to have a niche; why would I play your thing over standard b/x? If it's basically just a collection of houserules in a standard fantasy setting, your reaction is likely to be fairly meh, but if it's got something unique about it (ACKS has high-level domain management, my one has a stone age setting, etc...) people might care.
>>43863857
I suggest you use D&D. Basic's surprisingly easy to learn; just grab either Mentzer or Moldvay out of the Trove.
>>43866475
cyclopeana.wordpress.com
>>43871850
> I AM WORKING ON NEW CONTENT, YOU RAVENING PIGFUCKERS
