Lawful Good necromancer General
>>43774241
What would that even be?
Kingdom sanctioned necromantic researcher?
>>43774241
I keep meaning to read these books.
>>43774295
Maybe they are takes by their deities to keep a balance against the undead hordes.
>>43774305
He's a very good author.
>>43774241
Literally who?
I don't care if you call me a pleb for not reading or remembering this dude, who is this guy?
>>43774295
I imagine kind of like debtors prison.
You accrue a bunch of dept, then die? Hell no your family isn't paying for your fuckups, we'll drag you screaming back from the afterlife and you can work it off your own damn self.
>>43774329
He is a She.
>>43774341
Alright, who is SHE?
make him priest of god of afterlife and life cycle. His job is to help souls go to realm of dead but because his god trusts him he's got limited necromancy. You get clean and repsected necromancer who doesn't have to wear all black all the time. Also you avoid "rebeling against my kind" cliche.
>>43774398
My mind has blanked on the name, but she is basically the most recent holder of the title of a lineage of good necromancers who go around sending undead back into death where they belong. They use a set of bells that when rung properly have power over undead and can do stuff and things.
>>43774398
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabriel
Teen literature. First one was ok.
>>43774398
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabriel
Fantasy book series, mostly follows the main character called an "Abhorsen" who is basically a good necromancer. I highly recommend the series if your looking for some non-traditional modern fantasy.
>>43774305
They are a fun read with an enjoyable and unique setting.
>>43774295
I would imagine it would happen when the death god has vary little power over the physical world and limbo so the only way for a sprite too pass on is is if they wanted too go
>>43774295
If I remember correctly (it's been like a decade since I read any of the books), there are two kinds of magic, Charter Magic which is structured and ordered, and Free Magic which is wild and far more dangerous. Free Magic is used in Necromancy, and it's up to the Abhorsen to stop any undead or other Free Magic threats. The different bells they wear have different effects, with the biggest being a huge "Death Bell" that puts like everything than can hear it down. The first books deals more with the undead, and the second and third deal more with Free Magic.
>>43774502
>>43774497
Holy shit I've been trying to remember the name of this series. I read it ages ago and loved it. Thanks anons
>>43774241
To all you fucknuts who say LG necromancer is impossible: you're fucking retarded.
Lets say the state religion is some form of ancestor worship. A Necromancer is a highly esteemed position, a master of arcane or divine magic, a scholar and a mentor, a conduit between the honoured forefathers and their living kin. Often this is just using Speak With Dead, being responsible for mummofying the deceased and things like that, but during times of struggle, they will animate the empty vessels of their ancestors to aid their mortal kin in war or in more mundane tasks.
Just one example. There is literally nothing preventing it. Anyone saying otherwise is just a sperglord on full autismo.
Why are you fucking retards so obsessed with subverting evil archetypes
Can't walk five paces without some degenerate subhuman going "HOW AOBUT A NECROMANCER. BUT NOT EVIL!". Wow, what an original fucking idea. "He has evil powers but is a good person!". Suck my dick. You're unfanging the threat and diminishing the archetype that was meant to scare you. Why do you persist on killing horror? It's worse than the subhumans who insist on making them "funny" with retarded post-modernist humor.
And yes, I have read the book. Neither Abhorsen nor Sabriel were necromancers. Their fucking job was to make sure the dead stayed dead.
This is usually the point where The Jolly Old Man gets posted
>>43775831
And you fucknuts who are always saying it can always work somehow need to remember:
It depends on the setting
Plenty have followed in DnD's footsteps in having the creation of undead torturously enslave souls, cause damage to the universe, or otherwise do something that is unquestionably a selfish, harmful, and in all other ways traditionally evil act.
>>43775857
Their magic was about dominion and power over the dead.
Dead. Necro. Magic. Mancy. Death magic.
They're fucking necromancers because they're death-related spellcasters. Not because they have D&D necromancer levels or some shit.
Abhorsen has a lot of really cool ideas in it but the sequel books were definitely worse. I do remember being creeped out a bit as a kid by the sacrifice on the charter stone and by the free magic pig spirit on the river.
The bells are an amazing take on necromancy, and even magic items in general.
>>43775857
Necromancer, like Cleric or Warrior or the like, is a Job description; it doesn't inherently make it an evil job description. That being said, there is a clear mental picture that comes to mind that is most certainly evil beyond reason.
It may be more interesting to think of a culture that, for the post part, people wouldn't have a problem with, where raising the dead and working with the various energies that Necromancers work with routinely is in fact a moral imperative... something that people would actively seek and exemplify.
>>43775831
Kind of like this, which for some reason brings to mind Mulan and the alters to ancestors long past where their spirits actually congregate and discuss the state of the family.
>>43775857
>literally commune with the dead, have the ability to raise and command the dead, the ability to kill and to visit the underworld directly
>not necromancers
Are you retarded?
The original "archetype" of a necromancer is hardly evil, either. The Witch of Endor is not portrayed as villainous and I mean, shit, fucking Gilgamesh and Odysseus both practice necromancy in their stories.
>>43776050
In ancient myths, raising the dead or talking to spirits was considered bad juju. Unless you were a god, obviously.
>>43776006
Magic in general felt good too. Magic users are common, but not everyone. And it stressed that actually powerful and trained mages are rare af. Even the best combat mages are liable to carry swords or fucking battleaxe instead of wands. And arrows are a big deal when blocking them takes your mage put of commission while he channels the arrow ward.
Made the prince dude pretty cool when he made fucking mage armor and fought a greater undead. I mean he lost concentration soon after, but he did it.
Magic is a big deal, and does heavy shit, but you can't just throw a fireball or cast polymorph. You gotta prep that shit and use mundane means with magic enhancements.
>>43776074
Which ancient myths, specifically? Like I gave specific examples of ancient myths with non-villainous necromancers and you replied with a general statement?
>>43775946
You better back the fuck up before I explain to you why you're retarded.
Still here? Alright.
Here we go: Abhorsen use Charter Magic mainly while Necromancers use Free. The bells are necromancer tools, but they are not required as a sufficiently powerful free magic user can be a necromancer without them. Abhorsen play by different rules.
So I guess to you a policeman and a terrorist are the same thing because they both use guns, right? Shit, might as well make undertakers necromancers, too, their realm is death and they fuck around with corpses.
>>43774295
Depending on the setting, perhaps skeletons are used as soldiers or labourers to reduce the toll on humans?
Without any social stigma attached to it, raising the dead simply becomes a way for the kingdom to make the best use of it's resources. Bodies are stripped of flesh to prevent disease and then raised as free labour and soldiers. The LG Necromancer is employed officially and does his work for the good of society.
>>43775934
Where does it say that animating dead somehow enslaves souls? Perhaps if you're talking about things like wraiths. Or revenants.
>>43775857
Not all animators are Herbert West.
>>43776172
Jews and persians were against the "diviners" who summoned spirits. And from what I remember, the Witch of Endor went apeshit when she realized she summoned an actual spirit and Saul was punished by God for the whole thing.
>>43776249
>Not all animators are Herbert West.
No, at least his evil was limited to reviving the body alone. These other so-called "animators" create living images (and as we all know, the image is the soul and this is why paintings and photography are forbidden) and store them, trapping the souls of their innocent victims in strange and terrifying forms for all eternity.
>>43776234
I should say *without social stigma and in a setting that doesn't make necromancy a perversion of nature (or at least not any more so than regular magic)
>>43774295
GET IN THE BAG
ILL TAKE YOU OUT AGAIN LATER IF I NEED A HAND FOR GOOD
BUT GET IN NOW
>>43774266
It's funny because, off of the top of my head... Nordic mythology would be where I would pull a LG necro from... Probably a character with divine power who was able to summon the souls of warriors from Valhalla to animate the corpses of the dead and aid the summoner. it would probably be more like binding a willing soul to a corpse rather than enslaving an unwilling participant to one. Higher levels summon better warriors.
>>43774473
Sabriel, Lirael, Abhorsen, Clariel, Beyond the Wall. Book titles. Old kingdom trilogy.
>>43776262
I think pretty universally public opinion and scriptural law was against diviners, yeah, but not more so than against all magic. Like magic as a whole was not good, necromancy doesn't seem particularly distinguished from that (cynically I'd probably say that scriptural law was just legitimising one faction of magicians back in its earliest days). Why turn around our opinion on one, and not on the other?
After Saul is driven to despair by his vision the witch comforts and feeds him, so I don't think she goes apeshit. I haven't re-read the specific verses though so maybe? It's the spirit that condemns Saul, not the witch.
>>43776345
The Magi in zoroastrianism were forces of good, while death fuckery was considered bad.
>>43775857
>>43775857
Why are you fucking retards so obsessed with subverting neutral archetypes
Can't walk five paces without some degenerate subhuman going "HOW AOBUT A NECROMANCER. BUT NOT NEUTRAL!". Wow, what an original fucking idea. "He can talk with the dead, but what about raising the dead!". Suck my dick. You're being an edgy little fucktard and diminishing the archetype that was meant to console you. Why do you persist on killing grieving tools? It's worse than the subhumans who insist on making them "nonexistent" with retarded post-modernist ideas on oblivion.
>>43776173
And in the same fucking book, the characters themselves often refer to their work and themselves as necromancer's.
>>43776173
No no no no no. No.
Fuck you, you didn't read the books. For one: ABHORSEN USE FREE MAGIC. The spells that let them pass the Gates of Death are one and all Free magic incantations. No ifs or buts. Which is the fucking core of necromancy mind you.
Two: the Abhorsen bells are a blend of Free and Charter magic, akin to the other artefacts made at the beginning of the world like Mogget's collar. They're Free magic at their core, but bound and intertwined with the Charter to such a degree they're inseparable.
One person uses spears. One person uses axes. Abhorsen use poleaxes. Your metaphor is ridiculous as, aside from being inflammatory, misses the entire previous argument.
Undertakers do not use magic. They embalm and bury corpses. If they used magic to bury corpses even that would not be necromancy. That is earth magic. The same spell could be used for a lot of things, and isn't bound to burying the dead.
Entering and crossing the Gates of Death is not. It is intrinsically death related magic.
Abhorsen are a bloodline of Charter-aligned Necromancers. It's fucking written in the books.
>>43776654
It's literally spelled out for you that they use Charter magic. The bells are infused with charter magic, compared to normal necromancer bells.
They did use a bit of free magic and that's cause they were special snowflakes and that was their thing, but the main form of magic was charter.
Stop posting anytime.
>>43776718
You fucking wot m8? They use Charter magic. How does that disqualify them from being necromancers when their entire destiny, their magic, their tools and their training is all about death magic.
Death magic of both varieties of magic. The book of the dead teaches them how to shatter charter stones and summon the dead. They have all the knowledge of a necromancer. They use the spells of a necromancer. They are called necromancers.
They are literal mancers of necro.
How are they not necromancers? "That's their thing"? You mean casting necromantic magic is their thing?
>>43776718
the fucking character's THEMSELVES refer to themselves as necromancer's you fucking moron. It's in the goddamn books.
"Your work?" asked the man, shivering a little, though it was no longer cold.
"Yes," said Abhorsen. "I am a necromancer, but not of the common kind. Where others of the art raise the Dead, I lay them back to rest. And those that will not rest, I bind. Or try to. I am Abhorsen."
FROM THE FIRST FUCKING CHAPTER. THE FIRST C H A P T E R OF THE BOOK.
It's even one of the FIRST LINES. Just stop fucking posting at this point, you moronic baboon. You didn't read the books. Admit it.
>>43775857
But Yorrick was a good guy.
>>43775857
Good Necromancers are fucking Biblical, mate. You have no idea what you're talking about at all.
>>43776885
>necromancer
>but specifically not the word's common definition
>>43776998
Do you read? No, really, do you? He even says he binds them, much as a necromancer does. It's the same shit sung to a slightly different tune.
He even -calls- himself a necromancer, just not a -common- necromancer. Read that again. Common. As in, he is an uncommon version of a necromancer.
>>43777050
He's taken three levels in self denialist
I was starting to think I was the only one who actually read these books. Still need to pick up To Hold the Bridge, really liked how Clariel didn't ruin all the mystery of Chlorr.
DEPENDS ON THE SETTING, NOW AND FOREVER.
Good necromancers? Preposterous!
>>43777119
If you read the thread, you'd know it was a thinly veiled Sabriel thread
>>43776234
>Without any social stigma attached to it, raising the dead simply becomes a way for the kingdom to make the best use of it's resources
Like plods in Unsounded.
Bumps
Inb4 somebody spergs about good necromancers being fedora.
>>43781403
You're late to the thread. Someone already did and got shut down promptly.
>>43775946
The portion of the word Necromancy, and by extension any other of the "-mancies" do not mean magic.
It means to commune with. Thus Pyromancy is not Fire Magic, but the ability to commune with flame.
>>43781617
>shut down
>this is what fedoras actually think
I just wandered by this thread to call you a fag.
