I think the chaos would be better if it were more Polytheism. Instead of four powerful gods hundreds weaker Chaos Gods.
Its harder to make a coherent brand for selling toys out of that many gods.
>>43706320
there would probably still be "major" gods, at least compared to the others.
Like warhammer fantasy.
>>43706320
They're not gods. They're sapient parasites feeding on the emotions of mankind.
>>43706320
There are canonically hundreds of other Chaos gods. Many of whom are facets of the big 4, but still separate enough to oppose them, etc.
>>43707160
And are ignored by anyone.
>>43706320
I think Chaos would be more interesting if its followers weren't such zealous retards. Which is really more the fault of the writers than anything, but I'd like there to be a greater precedent. Most Chaos characters range from being face-ramming maniacs to mindless automatons.
I'd like them to be a bit more Sith-like, really. You still have your crazed zealots, but there's precedent for some more relatively moderate individuals.
>>43710614
Agreed
>>43706594
I prefer to think of them as a consequence of an unbalanced ecosystem within the warp. Clearly when the age of strife happened the event was stressful for many and as humans made up a large part of that (orks just make Warrg and eldar took their time to make Slany) things that feed from humans stress got a boost and now we have a warp dependent on human suffering.
>>43706320
>>43707160
>>43709298
That's really the long and short of it. Having the big 4 around is fine, but having some more detail and focus on small chaos gods would be nice.
For example, Chaos Raptors are called out as following some minor unnamed Chaos god of Fear. Giving him a name, some art, and maybe even some examples of color scheme or which Daemons he uses would be great.
Basically, they need to make a dozen or so minor gods and flesh them out about as much as some of the more minor space marine chapters. Just enough to give people some ideas outside the big 4 or undivided.
>>43710614
True. It does raise the question of how Chaos keeps recruitment up when giving into it makes you immediately insane. While no doubt Chaos corrupts heavily, there should be varying degrees of how quickly people succumb to it, and how much autonomy they retain.
>>43711241
War in Heaven caused that.
>>43710614
I thought the Sith are also zealous retards?
>>43712659
A misconception that I think originated with the popularity of the original KotOR, and misunderstandings of the Sith characters in KotOR 2 (as well as the fact that in those games, the only way to be dark side was to be as blunt and needlessly dickish as possible).
Vader: Primarily stoic with the occasional burst of rage
Palpatine: Incredibly patient manipulator
Maul: Stoic assassin that never overstepped his boundaries
Dooku: Calm and gentlemanly
Darth Nihl: Patient and dedicated
Ludo Kressh: Urged the Sith take a more careful approach to Imperial expansion
Marka Ragnos: Maintained a golden age of relative peace in the Sith Empire
Kreia: Never once killed anything for its own sake, urged rational thought and logic
While there were definitely zealous morons like Naga Sadow, Bane, and Malak, there were a number of Sith that were more moderate and logical. Something I'd like to see more in Chaos-influenced characters.
>>43706320
I've always liked the theory that each of the chaos gods is a 'hivemind' in the classical sense; that there is no overall controlling intelligence for each of the big 4. Instead, each god is like a gigantic demonic ant hive, a vast collection of different demons spawned from different emotional events. So Slaanesh is not a vastly powerful individual, but rather the sum of every demon born of excess.
>>43712966
The warhammer 40k universe if a very fundamentally different place than the star wars universe. The entire point of 40k, and chaos is that the utter insanity of it is inevitable and more effective than human/mortal rationality. In 40k humans are inherently flawed and doomed, in star wars humans are capable of making choices that effect their souls.
The Nightlords series, the Word Bearers series, Storm Of Iron, Blood Gorgons and Daemon World are all examples of novels with somewhat intelligent chaos followers, usually contrasted by utter bugfuck crazy followers. They still, despite their intelligence, are beholden to something greater than them despite their wishes that corrupts and consumes them. Its part of the setting.
>>43714276
Eh, not quite, in Warhammer Fantasy, originally, the gods of Chaos were chaotic, but they had good and bad aspects. Even in 40k nowadays they retain minor elements of that.
>>43712966
>Maul
>Never overstepped boundaries
Cartoon network clone wars is canon you know
>>43706320
I prefer shattering the 4 gods into hundreds of different aspects, like a nurgle marine warband that focuses less on disease and rot and more on rust and decay and hope to become immortal by serving nurgle.
Or berserkers that behave like knights and fight with honor for Khorne.
Or slaanesh marines who are less into rape and torture and more into invading a planet half-way across the galaxy so they can acquire a very specific flower to adorn their fortress.
Or like some tzeentch marines that don't know shit about magic, but do know how to scheme and disorganize a large enemy army with small unit attacks, and engineer catastrophes for their benefit.
>>43706320
Really nigger? There are uncountable daemons, all with their own set of powers and ability to bargain relative to their strength but because they adhere to 4 near limitless daemons of such incredible power they can be called gods, only those are gods now?
>>43706320
You do know that Polytheism means right? Chaos is literally that given it is governed by FOUR GODDAMN GODS. Also no offense OP but your idea is kind of shit given four big gods is all you need, the minor gods would be clutter and get real annoying real quick.
>>43706320
nah
>>43706320
the fact chaos is so well organized, and got more organized as time went on, is just piss and pain...
>>43711719
Why, exactly, do they need to do that?
>>43706320
Yeah no kidding. Real fuckin Chaotic, four guys.
>>43719584
>Slaanesh
>guy
>>43720383
Slaanesh is still a guy.
>>43714833
Those are literally all things that are currently viable in fluff.
GW is often just phoning it in when it comes to writing their own.
>>43714833
Any more ideas? I always like hearing other people's takes on the big four.
I like what Age Of Dusk 60K did with the Chaos gods all being aspects of the NEX{DATA EXPUNGED}
>>43714833
Warhammer Fantasy has all those things, actually.
Or had at any rate.
If Mordheim and Man O'War come back into production, is it still past tense?
>>43706320
If there weren't four they wouldn't be reminiscent of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
>>43706320
It is. Crull worships the Box God, for instance
>>43724164
But that concept predates the Chaos Gods.
They may have always existed within the Warp, but Khorne couldn't have been known in the material plane prior to hus birth.
>>43724296
He's talking about meta-knowledge.
There's 4 of them to be reminiscent of the Horsemen to the reader, not in universe.
>>43706320
no.
>>43714833
>Or slaanesh marines who are less into rape and torture
That's a thing the player base tends to forget more than the GW writers themselves. Slaanesh isn't just excess and pleasure, s/he is also the god of perfection. Hell, that was kinda why the Emperor's Children ended up under Slaanesh. They were OBSESSED with perfection and being the best.
>>43725749
Is greed also Slaanesh?
>>43725749
Kind of odd we forget it, the special Slaanesh aligned unit is Applied Dethklok.
>>43727132
Yes
Is it possible to save a thread in 4chan?
I think Chaos would be better if there were demigods representing fusions and overlaps of the major powers, along with areas of neutality such as the Hellforge and spite/fear/Furies.
>>43730062
Alright guys I've trying to come with a name for the six following Chaos Demigods. Names that reflect their central theme while fitting the names of the big Four.
Chaos Demigod of Elitism - Snobbery, Rejection
Chaos Demigod of The Unavoidable - Far-reaching, Inevitable
Chaos Demigod of Wretchedness - Foul, Without Shame
Chaos Demigod of Hysteria - Impatient, Fuming
Chaos Demigod of Brutality - Hulking, Cruel
Chaos Demigod of Evasion - Opportunistic, Indolent
Extra marks (of CHAOS) if you can deduce which Demigods correspond to which Major Powers.
>>43727784
I assume it's because sex is seen as the most obvious thing when the word "pleasure" is mentioned.
Hell, GW tiptoes around anything that has to do with sex/rape.
>>43711770
It mucked it up but it was humans specifically that caused Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch to manifest. Slaanesh is the only Chaos God we've seen not to be directly caused by humanity.
Also, Tzeentch was actually a pretty good guy when he was Top God. The Dark Age of Technology was pretty great, and it's basically confirmed that that was when he was strongest and that the end of that age was caused or reflected by the other gods knocking him down a peg.
>>43733244
He likes it when things are horrible and nightmarish for mortals. Would a man hope things get better if he lives in an golden age of peace and prosperity? Will he hope he won't get his face ripped off by Orks when he has some DAoT Ork repellent that causes Orks to die instantly?
>>43730356
>Elitism
Rhaphyne
>Unavoidable
Iitt
>Wretchedness
Slaughwl
>Hysteria
Akra
>Brutality
Gritcharr
>Evasion
Nisz
>>43733244
They gained sentience during periods in the history of humanity, but I don't recall their creation ever being laid directly at humanity's doorstep.
>>43725749
In Fantasy Slaanesh was always pride, arrogance, ignorance/lack of concern for the gravity of the situation, and finally indulgence of vices last.
The sex was more of a thing for 40k. Slaanesh in Black Library Fantasy was always about torturing other beings, debasing others to make yourself look even better next to them, and petty whim.
Slaanesh's champion is Sigvald, a character Slaanesh indulged without really deserving anything just to make the most spoiled brat he could. Sigvald tried to wipe out all Elves because they have prettier hair than him (literally, that is his reason). He gets his entire force wiped out without killing a single Elf and wanders away from the battlefield because he sees the blood of his men and remembers some bad Bretonnian wine he had once, and wants to gather an army to wipe out Bretonnia for it.
In another story, a Chaos champion of Slaanesh makes a fortress that was impregnable fall because he uses magic to make them all feel like they're better than their superiors until the morale of the fortress is broken and everyone fleeing due to massive backstabbing.
>>43730356
>Chaos Demigod of Elitism - Snobbery, Rejection (Slaanesh/Tzeentch)
Be'lakor.
>Chaos Demigod of The Unavoidable - Far-reaching, Inevitable (Tzeentch/Nurgle)
Necoho.
>Chaos Demigod of Wretchedness - Foul, Without Shame (Slaanesh/Nurgle)
I'm drawing a blank on this one, so probably a new character.
>Chaos Demigod of Hysteria - Impatient, Fuming (Slaanesh/Khorne)
Archaon.
>Chaos Demigod of Brutality - Hulking, Cruel (Khorne/Nurgle)
Hashut
>Chaos Demigod of Evasion - Opportunistic, Indolent (Tzeentch/Khorne)
Great Horned Rat.
>>43733490
By that theory, since 40k is hopeless grimdarkness, Tzeentch went too far and is diminished greatly.
>>43712966
Bane always struck me as a long-con manipulator who wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty. The Rule of Two trilogy never really had him come off as super zealous.
>>43706320
Dont usually post here, but aren't Demon Princes literally lesser gods?
>>43735464
He orchestrated the downfall of the most successful Sith organization in millennia, literally one campaign away from finally defeating the Republic, because he believed it didn't follow what he felt was what was "truly Sith."
Apparently being a Sith for all of two years made him some kind of expert.
>>43735489
They describe themselves as such, and are godlike in many ways.
But Games Workshop had a long period where they built up Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Khorne as literally the only beings who matter in any way, so mention of other Chaos entities always has something somewhere saying that the Chaos Gods are just those four, and nothing compares to them. It may not be in the Daemon Prince description, it may be in the book foreward, but somewhere it'll point out the only gods are those Four, or in the case of Fantasy the only gods not currently dying or MIA are the Four.
>>43733686
I like most of these! Maybe change Wretchedness and Brutality.
>>43735424
Pretty inventive. The Wretched Demigod would cover the Furies among other things; there's a mention of a warp entity that covers those and other things like Raptors, but it has no name.
Also, all of your guesses are accurate but two. I reckon it's caused by the second extra words - it's more clear from the first terms on their own.
>>43735627
The Chaos Gods are the Greater Gods of the Warp/Realm of Chaos. There can be minor deities born from the intersecting spheres of the Great Four like the Horned Rat, Hasut, and the Eyeless Child God.
>>43735489
I'm pretty sure there is a short story about a Daemon Prince who blesses and strengthens a barbarian.
>>43706594
How does one oppose the other?
>>43721624
Slaanesh is a hermaphrodite
>>43724164
There are 5 horsemen. Why does everyone leave out conquest?
>>43740494
Death, Conquest, War and Famine... wheres the 5th?
>>43706594
Just like the "real" gods, right?
>>43740653
Pestilence, mon frere.
>>43719536
Marketability. Lets say you kinda like tzeentch but not all the sorcery BS. So what you do is worship a facet of tzeentch for the emotion of fear in particular.
Kind of a "I don't like any of the chaos gods so I'll make my own" thing.
>>43740995
You mean the one the modern age replaced conquest with? They never show up together because people decided conquest was too similar to war and pestilence was more fitting, but yeah pestilence doesn't really exist
>>43719536
The same reason there are multiple chapters of Space Marines. It increases the possibilities for people to come up with their own forces and color schemes.
>>43740494
Same reason everyone ignores Malal
>>43736576
I think I've shaped the concept into something functional. I've preserved one of >>43733686's names entirely, modified three and swapped+modified the last two. Meanwhile >>43735424's suggestions supply the influential champion of each Demigod, whether daemonic, mortal or inbetween. Two are altered to preserve elements from otherwise inapproachable content, and a third is modified for suitability in a sci-fi setting.
Now these puppies need symbols and colours.
>>43741656
MSPaint-quality test symbols for each of them, with relevant colour swatches. The concept as follows:
Dark indigo-purple: a snaking writhing line that doubles back on itself, running straight underneath the surface. Mouth-like thing on the end.
Purple and black (probably just black) - somewhere between a raking claw-implement and a key, with a handle as sharp as the tip.
Grey and brown - a tree, an anchor and vaguely sexual imagery. This would look better at an angle. The tree is also meant to look like a fraying thread.
Yellow and orange - overlapping gradations of spreading lines, conjuring hazard symbols and maths in a harsh rusty glare.
Sea green - Two deformed spheroids trailing random lines.
Pink/magenta - Something with very many down-ward pointing spikes, a bowl-like structure on the top with a floating triangle. May resembled wings, teeth or an inverted flame, propelling something upwards.
Marks of CHAOS for deducing which symbol belongs to which.
>>43714762
I do hope you are meaning the cartoon one, not the CGI one.
>>43741987
Nope. CGI one is 100% confirmed canon.
