How would the Covenant do in Star Wars if they appeared during the Clone Wars and started wiping out human worlds?
The pinnacle of Star Wars weapon technology was the Death Star, a weapon feared because it could exterminate planets... something the Covenant does easily.
So yeah, they'd probably do pretty great until that whole internal civil war thing happens.
>>43656750
But how would the Republic react to them just declaring holy war on Humans? How would the Sith react, they didn't plan for this.
>>43656778
It doesn't matter. Covenant has better energy-shielding technology, better weapons (plasma, at least in the books, is far more devastating than Blasters, easily burning through armor and even causing severe injuries with MISSED shots (due to the heat and radiation)... although the games never illustrate this.), better ships, better combat vehicles (Scarabs, Wraiths, Phantoms, ect)... literally the only advantage the humans would have is that Jedi and Sith can use the Force... a thing that's practically not much stronger than a limited scope energy weapon.
>>43656854
The Republic has numbers as well.
>>43656750
Im pretty sure EU had better stuff than Death Star
>>43656910
This is during the Clone Wars. As in during the early parts of the war The Covies show up and start massacring humans and giving aliens the "Convert or die" treatment.
>>43656750
Well the Death Star physically blows planets to bits. That's different than just rendering them uninhabitable, and requires significantly more advanced technology.
>>43656854
In the Halo books humans hold their own on the ground pretty well even with their tech level, they just ain't got shit on the Covenant in space.
>>43657103
Didn't the Covies hate fighting humans on the ground? Because humans don't fight "Honorably".
>>43657103
Humanity in Halo was getting their asses kicked by the Covenant in every single encounter where Spartans wern't involved... and even the Spartans were slowly succumbing to attrition. It's only recently (AKA, 343's shit canon-destroying hack job of a "story") that Humanity can stand on any kind of equal ground with the Covenant... and that's after the Covenant pretty much imploded on itself a second time for reasons completely unrelated to Humanity.
Pretty well given that Star Wars's space battles are fought in WWII and Age of Sail styles.
>>43656750
Covenant glassing is functionally identical to something in Star Wars called "Base Delta Sero", where a bunch of ships in orbit bombard a planet until the surface is uninhabitable.
The Death Star is impressive because it doesn't just render the planet uninhabitable, but conpletely shatters it.
>>43657140
Yes and no. The Humans were able to take advantage of certain tactics like specifically targeting commanders, which the Covenant did find dishonorable.
However a great deal of the Elites at least, had a begrudging respect for Humanity's "bravery", especially when compared to the likes of the other cowardly Covenant races like Grunts and Jackals.
>>43657288
*Base Delta Zero
>>43656612
The Venator class star destroyer common during the Clone Wars was a little over a kilometer long, comparable to a Covenant Frigate. The CSO-class supercarrier Long Night of Solace was three kilometers tall, and was almost as wide as the Executor class super star destroyer was long. The main armament of the Covenant capital ships also had a range in excess of 100,000 kilometers, which is a third of the distance from the Earth to the moon. The weapons common to smaller ships and that comprised the Cruisers' and Carriers' secondary armament also tend to burn through armor belts and bulkheads long after collision.
Even a modestly sized Covenant fleet is a nightmare, and the largest fleets roll with hundreds of capital ships.
>>43657337
well, the venator has an effective range on their turbo-lasers that can hit things up to 10 light minuets away
>>43657337
In the books, Cortana actually says the weapons on Covenant ships have a much farther range than what the Covenant use them for. I forget WHY exactly, but I think it was a mix of the Covenant basing their stuff on Forerunner reverse-engineering (and all the religious rules that apply to that) and Covenant having shitty AI (nothing comparable to what Humanity used to handle their weapon's systems.).
>>43657413
Nothing is calibrated because they revere it too much to interfere with anything. Basically all the settings are wrong.
>>43657413
You got it right. Basically they had no clue what they were doing when they built the things, it was 40K style religious dogma rather than an actual understanding of engineering.
>>43657488
huragok know what their doing, it's just that the covenant would rather not mess with them
>>43657413
And 100,000 km is only what they've been seen doing, essentially sitting outside the UNSC's range and picking off the juiciest targets with impunity.
>>43657337
"179,000,000 kilometers" smacks of a complete lack of scale. You also have to consider that the heavy turbolasers are a mass-fire weapon, while one hit from an energy projector can gut a UNSC heavy capital ship twice the size of a Venator from prow to stern.
>>43656750
>The pinnacle of Star Wars weapon technology was the Death Star, a weapon feared because it could exterminate planets
Two points.
First, Base Delta Zero is a thing.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Base_Delta_Zero
Second, if we go with Legends, the Sun Crusher is a thing.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sun_Crusher
>>43656612
>A couple hundred worlds
vs
>a galaxy 5x the size of the milky way
Yeah, the Covies are gonna get squashed.
>>43657597
A couple dozen men with guns can kill a group of savages 20 times their size pretty easily.
That's pretty much we're looking at when you compare the Covenant and Republic, technologically speaking.
>>43657596
I'd argue that the pinacle of weapons technology is a factory that can produce infinite ships, droids, weapons and armor for free.
>>43657597
>5x the size of the milky way
it is only 20,000 lightyears larger, not 5 times, and the actual size of the covenant empire is never stated, just that is nebulous and larger than the UNSC
>>43657659
Yes, because those factories just produce those things out of thin air with no resources or economic support needed. Also the Covenant doesn't have factories of it's own, clearly.
Also Droids suck.
>>43657597
>a relatively small portion of said galaxy
>with a few thousand industrialized worlds at best
Not to mention the Covenant scavenged most of their juiciest tech from a culture of world-builders who could wipe out all life in an entire galaxy and fucked the laws of the universe for funsies.
>>43656750
>the Death Star, a weapon feared because it could exterminate planets
What made the Death Star scary was that it could penetrate planetary shields, something conventional orbital bombardment couldn't do. Alderaan was a shielded planet, which was why they could afford to be pacifists and risk pissing off the Emperor by opposing him in the senate.
>>43657717
But all of those broken switches are flipped to the "off" setting because God Wills It or whatever retard thing the Covenant believes.
>>43657745
Only the "Prophet" caste... meaning after the Prophets were wiped out, the Covenant should have become wayyy stronger... but you know, 343 absolutely sucks at writing.
>>43656910
Such a thing does not exist.
>>43657710
>not knowing what the Star Forge is
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Forge
literally uses stellar lifting and molecular arrangement to make ships, weapons, armor, dorids, basically anything if you jut park it near a sun
>droids suck
>BX series commando droids
>magna guards
>HK series of droids
>basilisk war droids
>etc etc
>>43657798
That implies the Covenant knows what the right settings are. I've got a fiver that says the Elites think "eh, good enough" when it comes to their weapons loadout. It's not like the Grunts or Jackals are stellar engineers either.
>>43657166
Nah, it was canon back in the original halo 1 novels that humans could win tactical skirmishes/land wars with the covenant. Then the covenant would say fuck that shit and glass the planet.
>>43657337
>The Venator class star destroyer common during the Clone Wars was a little over a kilometer long, comparable to a Covenant Frigate. The CSO-class supercarrier Long Night of Solace was three kilometers tall, and was almost as wide as the Executor class super star destroyer was long
The Enterprise is tiny compared to that, and not even a warship, but she still could exterminatus a whole planet.
Size means shit, power matters.
Maybe this isn't the right thread to ask, but if /tg/ had to design the most "realistic" space combat imaginable, what would it look like?
I'll start:
Weapons would be comprised mostly of seeker missiles that are launched in huge swarms towards the enemy. You can get sanicfast accelerations once you don't have to worry about pasting crew, and tracking weapons >>> dumb weapons in an environment with as many DoF as space has, you're going to miss basically every shot from a dumb weapon. Who here played the vidyagame Strike Vector before it died? It's a perfect case of how fucking obnoxious it is to hit an enemy that can move freely with a plain bullet
Another bonus to missiles is that you could load the warheads up to do different thinks -- slugs vs. explosives vs. shrapnel vs. countermeasures against enemy missiles, etc.
>>43657659
But that factory cost your soul.
>>43657837
It hurts.
I hope Lucas burns in the deepest layer of hell for this, together with Brutus and Judas.
>>43657864
The one mainstay of Federation ships is that they have an outsized reactor for a ship its size.
>>43657838
What the fuck did the elites spend their childhoods learning? The Halo EU states that Elites, being a dedicated warrior caste, spend literally their entire formative period learning tactics and weapons, yet they get BTFO by the Grunts, Brutes, and Humans on the ground -- each foe required an Arbiter to come clean the mess up for them
>>43657905
what are you so butthurt about? 99.9% of the SW EU was deviantart-tier powercreep bullshit that was indistinguishable from run-of-the-mill capeshit
>>43657924
It's like when you learn tactics meant to be used against cavalry, or infantry massed with pikes, only to learn that whoops, the enemy uses air support and armored vehicles. Oops!
>>43657899
after hundreds of years of misuse and having it feed of the dark side inclination of the rataka. Revan manage to keep it under control, and managed to take what basically amounted to the core part and use it to make a larger station for the republic that didn't cost his 'soul'
>>43657963
that's not a fair comparison, though, since Covenant tech > Human tech. If anything, that's the perspective that human ground commanders should have
>>43657596
>Second, if we go with Legends, the Sun Crusher is a thing.
>http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sun_Crusher
Thought Disney retconned extended universe
>>43657898
Id imagine since range is basically infinite and ships should be so far away and capable of FTL, ships would use rail gun launched torpedoes that come with whatever drives allow ships to move faster than light.
Jump missiles.
>>43657337
>excess of 100,000 kilometers,
Please, when you fight with space ships in the vacuum of the space using energy weapons, anything below 300 000 kilometers should be considered point blank. With targeting systems and ships cruising below light-speed, anything below 18 000 000 kilometers could be argued to have close to 100% hit rate. Even modern air craft can shoot targets up to 20 km away with close to 100% hit rate, not counting counter-measures.
>devs don't make space battles accurate for two reasons
>they can't grasp the speed of light and distances in space
>they understand the speed of light and distances, but think that space battles where ships can't even see each other and get destroyed without prior notice doesn't make interesting movies/gameplay/stories.
Star wars is a space fantasy series while halo is a scifi series. You can't compare apples and cars to each other.
>>43657996
Nope, because the Covenant infuse everything with crazy biblethump religious nutjobbing. Thus, the Elites all grew up believing that the enemy *would never* use air support or defensive cover or modern tactics. Which is why Humans get a rap for being dishonorabiru and why Humans keep getting their planets glassed for being dishonorabiru.
>>43656612
Depends how successful they were getting. I can imagine any tech salvaged getting into the the hands of the sith. Also makes you think how game changing the Jedi would be in the war in space if any can manage a battle meditation.
>>43657967
>bigger station
TOR bullshit?
I'm thinking of playing through that MMO to get some of the better stories.
But it's so fucking MMOey.
>>43656612
Star Wars is Science Fantasy and Halo is Science Fiction. You can't compare them easily.
>>43657996
>>43657963
I like to pretend that the covenant never really fought anyone on the ground that had any ability to fight back so their tactics, though well learned, were shit.
>>43657943
More like half of it, and everything after the Vong got introduced. And when it was good, it was better than anything Lucas himslef could come up with (he didn't even contribute that much the the original three).
Pretty much everything we here considered to be SW was expanded universe.
>>43658014
That's assuming that FTL is portable. Personally, I prefer settings like Bebop, wherein the FTL is so resource-heavy, it has to be used like public transport, and no individual ships have it
>>43658052
That's very much a trope of The Race, among other things.
>not reading Harry Turtledove
>[the current year]
ishygddt
>>43658017
Dev's don't make space battles accurate for one reason:
Space battles don't exist and nobody, not even you, knows what they would look like if they did.
>>43658052
they fought the hunters, grunts, and brutes on the ground as part of their indoctrination, though
>>43658052
They had some serious losses when exterminating "heretic" Legkolo.
That was only one planet, however.
>>43658040
just bigger form the core part. he took a part of the star forge and basically 'nurtured' it's growth by feeding it raw materials to make it a large enough to produce large amounts of droids and war material, not making it bigger than the actual star forge, but it could be given enough time.
>>43658053
seeing as the capital planet of the entire galaxy got it's name form EU first, it shouldn't surprise people
Something to understand in regards to why Covenant have "bad" tactics is because they believe the entire point of war is to prove their superiority over the foes. It's basically glorified showboating.
Meanwhile Humanity is just doing whatever gets results. They're not in it for the "glory".
To be honest, in Halo 4, it made Jul M'dama pretty threatening, since he was less big on the whole "honor" thing... but as other posters have stated, 343 sucks at writing and basically made him a throwaway villain-of-the-week.
>>43658053
Eh, and let's be fair:
Even the dumbest shit from the EU is not worse than the prequels .
>>43658054
Okay lets assume that FTL is ridiculously expensive and takes long periods of time to charge up etc. Only large ships have it and its awkward to use.
Ship combat would only take place if there was a successful ambush or if you threaten to destroy something they cant abandon. Like ship yards or a planet.
Even then the ranges involved would be so large that ships would have the time to dodge even lasers with evasive maneuvers. Since light takes minutes to travel across a solar system.
So I propose that ships could battle by trying to fill up all the space an enemy ship could possibly travel through, with relativistic shrapnel. Like a space shotgun hunting a duck.
>>43657817
Too bad you are comparing fanfic to actual canon.
Okay math wise, a Star Destroyer produces the same output as a 49th of the sun. Ignoring that shitty logic, they also have a scary ass range, which the Covvies don't have. Covvies best the UNSC in space but suck ass at ground combat.
Now speaking in terms of ability to fight, Clones are vastly better fighters than Covvies because Blasters and thermal detonators are way better weapons, plus clones are actually able to fight at a distance well.
Then there's fucking Jedi. There's 10k Jedi during the Clone Wars. 1 Jedi is able to solo a venerable army of Super Battle Droids. And if they wish, can easy just crush them with rocks or ewoks.
I'll say they'd put up less of a fight than the Separatists.
>>43658176
>BX droid commandos and magna guards are not canon
>>43658176
Actual Canon for Halo (post-Bugie) involves the biggest threat to both sides being a PMS'ing AI created by Humanity itself.
Fuck almighty, Halo 5 was like the last 5 minutes of Mass Effect 3... stretched out into an entire game.
>>43658124
>Jul Mdama getting killed is a cutscene
>Chief vs Locke, and the entire sequence where they run towards each other and then escape, is a cutscene
>there exist 3 levels that are NOT cutscenes, whose only purpose is to stand around and talk to people
>you have to fight the Warden Eternal three (3!) times in Boring Bullet Sponge fights 2: Electric Boogaloo
>you don't get to play as the Arbiter in a game that lets you visit Sanghelios and features an Elite Civil War
what the FUCK, 343??
Also, about your showboating claim: showboaters drop the act fairly quickly when all their friends start dying around them
>>43658146
thing is, how would you know when/what to dodge?
if your talking lasers, information cant travel faster than light. theoretically, if you see a laser it's either already hitting you or it missed, no time to dodge.
>>43657288
>tfww Base Delta Zero is never actually described in fluff as anywhere near glassing the planet and varies from shitty "triggered a forest fire" grade turbolaser shots to "send the troopers to mop up" tier unfinished jobs
>>43657379
Which is why fighting is famously within visual range and ground combat is downright napoleonic.
>>43658124
Also, it worked because of superior technology, so why bother?
Let's not even pretend that humanity had the ghost of a chance, or that we were a serious problem for their forces. At best Mankind was the largest and most widespread enemy the Covenant ever fought, and we had minor pyrrhic victories here and there.
If the Covenant had ever fought an enemy with a similar tecnology level and size, they might have abandoned their bad tactics eventually out of pure pragmatism, something they otherwise never needed to do.
>>43658146
that's what I was referring to
>launch a huge swarm of missiles from the ship
>missiles, being unmanned, accelerate up to 2fast speeds towards the target
>slow down and make last minute maneuvers to start tracking the enemy
>when the programming determines that missing is literally impossible, a shaped charge detonates the warhead into a cloud of shrapnel
>the target gets pincushined
The only issue with this is you run into friendly fire, when there are huge clouds of shrapnel floating about the battlefield, just waiting to shred friend and foe alike
>>43658220
just move under the assumption that you're being targeted at all times -- distances are so vast, and you have so many degrees of freedom to move in, that it is easy to make yourself basically impossible to hit with "dumb" weapons so long as you know the rough position of your enemy
>>43658220
Why are you waiting for the enemy to fire to begin evasive maneuvers? You are moving in a unpredictable way so that the enemy cannot lead its shots effectively.
>>43658187
>Blasters and thermal detonators are way better weapons
So you have no idea what you're talking about. Why didn't you just say so?
>>43658227
did that so that the ships couldn't leave the gravity well and make the jump to hyperspace escaping with the chancellor.
they needed to be within snub-fighter range to deploy jedi knights to board the ship and save the chancellor
>>43658187
>Blasters and thermal detonators are way better weapons
Why?
>>43658187
>they also have a scary ass range
What range?
>>43658187
>Then there's fucking Jedi
Good point.
>>43658272
I imagine you could predict fairly easily where your clouds of shrapnel are expanding into and what the risks are of moving thought those spaces over time. Ships not using FTL arnt going to be moving as fast as your magnetically accelerated missiles anyway so friendly ships should always be far behind your fire unless you are doing very very fancy formations.
>>43658273
for smaller ships yeah totally, larger ships still have more mass and are much harder to change direction or speed making them more predictable.
maybe the future of space combat ain't capital ships, maybe its who can put the biggest guns on the smallest ships.
>>43658187
I'd argue that blasters and thermal detonators are what the covenant have, they're just a different shape, but they have very similar effects on people, armor, vehicles, and the environment. The only time they're ever considered 'better' is in very specific fapfics.
>>43658046
Please, they are both Science fantasy, there are just as many fantastical elements to halo as there are to star wars. God damn there are alot of halo fanboys all over this board for some reason. Halos lore is shit, its on the same level of incosistent and poorly written as 40k god damn. The Human MBT uses APCB rounds with a smoothbore gun, among other retarded things which exist in your glorious mary sue universe
>>43658291
>my fanfic proves the capabilities of star wars technology
The only way any of the excuses used in these discussions are actually true is if literally everyone in the wars universe has room-temperature IQ.
They never, ever fight at light minute ranges or with the kind of dispersal even kiloton warheads would require.
>>43658275
Those blasters don't seem to do much damage at all, at least compared to what Covvie stuff can canonically do. Even Guard Flashlights may be better than Blasters.
>>43658313
Large carriers that medium and small fighting ships detach from and they go to battle at sub light speed.
The carriers hide in the back to protect the precious FTL.
>>43658017
>Halo is science fiction
>Halo isn't space fantasy
u wot
do you even science fiction
>>43658318
>I don't understand why Halo is so popular! It's just as shitty as Warhammer 40K!
I think you just answered your own question.
>>43658146
>>43658273
>>43658272
Why are you fighting with ships at all? Why not just launch asteroids at planets?
>>43658013
That's why I specified Legends.
But then again, Starkiller Base in TFA has been confirmed to be a planet-sized hybrid of the Sun Crusher with the Galaxy Gun, so...
>>43658304
Because the SW fandom are experts at putting out massive wank fanfiction. Fuck, it's literally all they write, it's like star wars only appeals to kids and massive autists who like to jerk off to big numbers thanks to its complete lack of value as more than popcorn shit on a cinematographic or literary level..
>>43658318
>the same level of incosistent and poorly written as 40k god damn
Now now, let's not say things we can't take back.
>>43658124
>>43658271
The reason why Humanity stood a chance is because the Covenant didn't take ground combat seriously. They only bothered putting boots on the dirt when the local humans had forerunner artifacts that were in danger of being hit as collateral by the glassing.
They treated ground engagements as a Safari more than anything: send all the young greenhorns in and see who makes it out alive (anyone that does is qualified for more serious jobs, since elites are all about MUH HONOR).
The Humans were basically fighting the equivalent of Elite 14 year old adolescents who were trying to prove how hard they were. Notice how badly they get curbstomped when an elite with actual experience (say a spec ops squad or a zealot) join the fun.
All the "serious" jobs, where the actually intelligent elites went, were naval
>>43658311
If the fight is taking place in orbit, the shrapnel clouds may just loop around and hit your guys in the back if you're not careful
>>43658339
Science fantasy is largely a term made up by annoying hard scifi fans who don't get that literally anything speculative is effectively fantasy to a degree or another. Not even Clarke-tier HSF predicted anything worthwhile about the future because it's not the point of science-fiction.
>>43658348
Star Trek fandom can be like this, too.
Let's not even talk about 40k fans.
Official numbers are shit and can be ignored, only actually stated or shown capabilities should count here.
>>43658341
1. FTL isn't portable, you have to set up permanent space stations that people use as public transport
and/or
2. everyone who's not a total shitter would see that coming from forever away and redirect the asteroid to not hit them
>>43658315
They're literally not what the covvies have.
Thermal detonators are nuclear fusion grenades. They're way more dangerous than plasma grenades.
As are blasters. Blasters an cut through plating like a lightsaber given time. Plasma rifles could be called weaker versions of Blasters. Weaker versions that can't sustain fully automatic fire without burning the wielder.
Covvie tech is similar to 40k tech, it sucks cause the makers are retarded.
Also not to mention their EMP grenades which will rip apart Covvie shielding. Covvie logistics is basically sending Grunts out to find a target and then send waves of enemies to kill them until they die.
Covvies beat the UNSC because they had better ships, and that's basically it. Star Wars ships are neither weak, not commanded by morons. So they'd pretty much lose. Hell I think the Jedi could probably solo them.
>>43658341
I prefer launching a kill vehicle capable of FTL if I want to blow up a planet. Makes it harder for them to intercept. Just strap an FTL to a lot of mass and fire it out of a giant magnetic accelerator. It cores a planet like an apple.
Or make it fragment before reaching a solar system to destroy all space facilities that arnt hiding behind a planet at the moment the vehicle arrives.
>>43658394
1. So send an asteroid to one of your stations (I'm guessing you mean something like fling beacons in Star Ruler 2, or Relays in ME.
2. Set up a base in the local asteroid belt and send it at the planet. Less time to react.
>>43658408
>thermal detonators are fusion grenades
show the jury on the doll where I'm supposed to give a fuck, since they behave like normal grenades anyway
>covvie tactics are waves of grunt fodder
>implying that isn't effective
>>43658384
Amen, brother.
But I like "Space Fantasy", good term for stuff like Spelljammer, Pathfinder or Nanoha.
>>43658376
I am sure that could be planned for. Orbits are predictable.
>>43658384
>a term made up by annoying hard scifi fans who don't get that literally anything speculative is effectively fantasy to a degree or another
Yet that was a dude claiming SW was science fantasy over Halo. Not even an "annoying hard science fiction fanboi".
You also acknowledge the existence of the scale of sci-fi hardness in terms of shades of grey existing within science fiction, but reject any easy categorical terminology everyone else is already using.
tl;dr you're a faggot
>>43658421
Solar systems are pretty big. It seems unlikely you could guarantee any sort of massive shrapnel hit on targets as small as man made space stations.
Planets, sure.
>>43658408
So you have no idea what you're talking about. Why didn't you just say so?
>>43658408
>EMP grenades which will rip apart Covvie shielding
Provided the shields use a type of energy the grenades could interfere with.
Why do we compare popular settings?
Why can't we ever compare comparable settings?
>>43658393
Yeah, I guess. I've honestly mostly just seen it on the wars end because I don't check spacebattles or other vs shitholes because the premise is so fucking stupid while casual dropping of "muh neutronium" seems to be almost immediate.
Honestly idgi, my main scifi homebrew I suspect would get squatted even by low end Wars/Trek/whatever because I don't see the appeal of the kardashev scale (my main reaction to it is always: what if they figure out energy efficiency, because this shit was obviously written by a fan of retarded 60s megaengineering) or planet killing shit.
>>43658341
>implying that the FTL system itself wouldn't work as a powerful bomb
reality warping in any shape or form contains impossible amounts of energy. Why bother with an asteroid if you could just Allahu Akbar the planet with an FTL drive?
>>43658440
>implying that an asteroid would fit through the station
why would you make a station that's large enough to fit a planet-killing asteroid? What kind of ships are you fitting through it?
And even if you sent it through a local asteroid field, it would still take days, probably weeks, to hit you, even if you threw it at relativistic speeds. Plenty of time to prepare. Space is big, anon, there isn't really such a concept of "local," in the sense that "local" implies "no time to prepare"
>>43658453
>but reject any easy categorical terminology everyone else is already using
...to, usually, discredit things he doesn't like, making it akin to how the 4chan usage of "autism".
>>43658453
Yes, because people online have started thinking hard/soft is a measurement of quality of the writing. Some of the best science-fiction I read was downright fantasy in the future, some of the most boring shit I read was hard sci-fi that read enough like a bad science lecture I never finished the boring shit.
>>43658508
because your dad would lose in a fight against my dad
>>43658482
Its a really big kill vehicle.
>>43658549
That sort of mentality comes from the fact that "soft" sci-fi often has glaringly huge plotholes that can sometimes break immersion. It's the whole "Why didn't the Fellowship just fly the Eagles to Modor" situation.
>>43658508
OP here, This thread was a mistake. I wanted to know how each side would react to each other. Not bitch about numbers...
>>43658576
Eagles are dicks. That's established in the lore.
>>43658576
That's a problem with the writing, not the setting.
Hard SF can have the same problems, indeed I dare to say that 90 % does have such problems.
>>43658592
They were also scared of the ring.
Not that it matters, because in the movies the eagles are indeed a massive plothole.
>>43658576
>>43658592
>>43658617
I thought it was because Sauron and the Nazgul would BTFO the eagles if they ever tried to fly past them
>>43658588
Its pretty obvious based on their ideologies that they would shoot at each other.
>>43658588
I like setting crossovers exactly because of this question.
That's also why I like to do it with settings were one would face a complete upheaval of their worldview, luike the Space Reich from LotGH meeting the Imperium from 40k.
unfortunatelly it alsways comes to dick measuring.
>>43658637
>Eagles are too proud to be ridden by lesser creatures.
>They arnt that concerned by what happens in Middle Earth because they can just fuck off.
>They dont want to risk their lives when its not their fight.
>They hoped it would work itself out.
Ah fuck it the fellowship is failing, we better help them. Fuck.
Most of that is in the books.
>>43658637
That, too.
They would also get corrupted, as demigods.
It was an all around bad suggestion.
>>43658677
>"We don't care... ohfuck the good guys are losing, we care."
>Not a plot-hole
Pick one.
>>43658699
It's depressingly realistic.
>>43658699
They are cool guys in the end. Its happened before IRL.
>>43658576
Because it would be taking advantage of their hospitality. They're not offering it.
It's not a plothole if you try to understand the mentality involved in these things.
>>43656612
Human nukes fucked the covie's day and SW cruisers had guns that put out several megaton-yield shots every shot so they universes AREN'T FUCKING COMPATIBLE.
>>43658408
Thermal detonators explode like normal grenades. Doesn't matter how they explode, because they are never shown in any game or in any but the wankiest of fluff that they have a larger blast radius nor are they shown doing much more damage. It still takes several thermal detonators to kill armored vehicles, it doesn't make people evaporate into thin air.
The thing is, both blasters and lightsabers are plasma weapons. They're literally the same fucking thing for the same fucking effect. When you're shot by them you flash boil, if you're wearing armor then you just cook, unless it's really good armor, then It doesn't do a hell of a lot. I mean, you're dealing with guys who have reflective ceramic plating and force fields, the sort of crap that can all but stop repeated plasma/blaster bolts. The Star Wars blasters also can't sustain fully automatic fire without their accuracy turning to shit, so it's more of a 'stop wasting ammo, stupid' function.
Not really, I'd say that Covenant tech is better, because they can mass produce personal force fields and plasma weaponry.
If EMPs worked on the covenant, don't you think the UNSC would use them? It is shown that covenant weapons actually produce EMPs all the time, so no, that doesn't work either.
The UNSC vessels were generally better-commanded, at first, but the sangheli are only stupid in personal combat, there's a reason they bested the Brutes, without anything like significant losses, despite being outnumbered 3-to-1.
I hate it when creators try to make elements of multiplayer canon in the SP. Good example is Bungie, when they said
>Elites are just as physically capable as SIIs
as an excuse for Elites in MP
did no-one think of how stupidly OP this makes the Elites? I had always thought that even if an SII and an Elite could bench or deadlift the same amount, the SIIs can move super sanic, nothin personnel, quickly, on behalf of their augments. They are NOT 100% physically comparable
>>43658348
Halo authors made the Flood some reality warping god bullshit. I don't think have much reason to complain about powerwanking.
>>43658783
what's a megaton?
>>43659292
I don't remember that. Sounds interesting though. I always liked my iambic pentameter spewing super villain.
>>43659364
a crater west of DC
>>43659292
>>43659408
they retconned the Flood so that now the Flood are remnants of the Precursors. Basically, the Forerunner were removing Precursor kebab all over the galaxy, and so a bunch of Precursor refugees hid in the small Magellanic Clouds and transmuted their bodies into a weird powder, with the intent to "just add water" and reclaim their original forms once the whole Forerunner fad had blown over. Only, their powder got corrupted by age, since the Forerunners lasted much longer than they expected them to, and mutated into the Flood
>>43659364
Something that's just about powerful enough to kill one clone trooper if he's protected by durasnow or ultrasand
>>43658805
>muh vidyo gaems
Going off Legends canon one thermal detonator can destroy an entire building
>muh personal energy shields
Star Wars has them too, they're just prohibitively expensive
>hurr not canon anymore
Fuck Disney
>>43659503
Also the movies. Nice cherry picking.
So? They aren't prohibitively expensive in Halo, considering how goddamn many of them get fielded.
Fuck you for being a fanboy. You're the same type of douchebag that would say a lightsaber can cut everything, despite it being shown that they very specifically cannot cut everything and in fact are really only that dangerous to flesh.
>>43659623
>they aren't prohibitively expensive in Halo
Yeah, but they're likely designed to protect against a much lower energy yield than a blaster gives out.
>the type of douchebag who would say a lightsaber can cut everything
But Legends canon also says they can't. Go be a retard elsewhere.
>>43659697
You say that with 0 evidence.
They're stopped by force fields and high quality armor, both of which are prevalent in Halo.
>>43658063
The Race was dumb and bad imo
>>43658805
>there's a reason they bested the Brutes, without anything like significant losses, despite being outnumbered 3-to-1.
I thought that was because the Brutes still didn't quite get how space combat worked, having only been in control of the fleet for a matter of weeks.
>>43658341
some people have ethical qualms with *genocide* and if your intent is to conquer a world rather than reduce it to rubble, you'll want to leave as much of its population and industrial capacity intact as possible. Which means you need ships to establish orbital superiority and bombard enemy troop concentrations, and soldiers on the ground to capture and hold territory that you can't just evaporate under concentrated bombardment.
>>43659819
They weren't completely clueless, but they were generally speaking bad at fleet operations and basically will always be bad at fleet operations, but they still understand the idea of 'move forward, shoot enemy' which isn't the worst tactic, it's how the blitz works after all, it's just also not going to work on guys who've been fighting for literally decades against some of the biggest bastards the navy can muster.
>>43659918
>ethical qualms
Hah. Okay, but really now. Rather than waste resources fighting a space battle, it probably is more efficient to just devastate the environment of the planet, and then harvest all relevant resources/rebuild the relevant infrastructure.
>>43659956
>basically will always be bad at fleet operations
Let's not be too hasty, let's remember that they were a post-apocalyptic civilization only ~100 years before H3, it makes sense that they'd need a bit more time for their culture to change enough for them to not be raging retards.
They're pretty shit as of the time of the games, though.
>>43659918
the logistics of an orbit-to-ground invasion are an absolute nightmare, because of the absurd amounts of troops that you'd need to field to effectively subdue an entire planet's population; coupled with the logistics of hauling them there and deploying them
>>43660049
>they were a post-apocalyptic civilization
only as a technicality, they had progressed back to the point of having chemical-based rockets that could breach the atmosphere
>>43660046
>implying that the planet's defenders would let you glass their world
you're going to need to fight for the orbital superiority that your plan requires
>>43659697
>Yeah, but they're likely designed to protect against a much lower energy yield than a blaster gives out.
These the same blasters that gave Han a nasty burn but refrained from flash-vaporizing part of his body?
The same blasters that have never inflicted damge comparable to Halo plasma weapons in any canon source whatsoever?
Those blasters?
>>43658783
>human nukes fucked the Covie's day
Incorrect; human nukes did absolutely fuck-all to covenant ship shields, hence why UNSC fleets had to adopt the strategy of popping their shields with MAC rounds, then hitting them with nukes before their shields recharged.
>>43660053
isn't it something like 1000 soldiers to 1 million civilians to maintain order? If you supplant your arriving force with conscripts from the local population(listen to us or we'll blow your families and homes into dust), you could subdue the hardcore loyalists with relative ease. And in the mentioned settings, troop movement doesn't seem to be a huge problem.
>>43660093
gas the world, move onto the next one. return in 40 years. Any orbital fleet will have dispersed.
>>43658699
Reminds me a bit of the nation of the bald headed eagle in a certain major war...
>>43660152
the issue is that you'd have to contend with literally unending guerrilla uprisings among the natives; it'd be like being the British trying to subdue the American colonies. The main bulk of your effective forces are simply too far removed from the conflict to matter, and the barriers to communication and troop deployment are steep.
Conscripts are untrustworthy
>>43660172
you're going to need to clear out any orbital defenses before you can carry out the first glassing
>>43660183
The US wasn't against Germany, senpai. The Dawes and Young Plans kinda prove that the US wanted Germany to get back on its feet ASAP because even back in 1925, Germany was the only country in Europe doing any real work. Then the Depression hit and the US had a major liquidity crisis, causing American investment in Germany to dry up.
>>43660213
I'm not talking about glassing. I'm talking about germ warfare, chemical warfare, etc. Basically anything that only requires a small payload to make it through to cripple a population.
>>43660260
You'd lose the PR war, and all your allies would probably desert you. You may win the battle, but your overall goals would be severely hampered. You're proposing the equivalent of nuking someone in Civ
>>43658351
But he's right, anon. Both have always been shit.
People are allowed to like shit.
>>43660313
Why would a race/faction that's willing to commit assembly line genocide to harvest resources care about PR? Did you see the aliens in independence day maintaining a press contingent?
>>43658677
>>43658691
Anything that close to mount doom with the ring is subject to EXTREME corruption, sending a demi god windlord like gwahair or his eagle kids, is bad idea, same reason Gandalf and Galadriel refused to take it, they would just become sauron mk2, lady sauron or flying sauron
>>43660213
>Conscripts are untrustworthy
>literally unending guerrilla uprisings among the natives
To use your mentioned British Empire as an example, the best way to go about conscripting your native recruits is to find an oppressed, hated or otherwise marginalized minority group and uplift them into an oppressor class, so that their fortune becomes bound up in your own fortune.
Make sure that they are armed, but not as well-armed as your native troops(give them ballistics and light mechanized forces, while you keep the lasers, plasma beams and tanks for yourself) and ensure that the officers of your conscript forces are your own men given some stake in the world, like land, businesses, spouses, etc.
Planetary conquest is basically colonialism.
>>43660431
What would you call it if a person is prejudiced against an entire planet's people? Is it still racism? What if the planet is multiracial?
>>43660549
uuuuuh idk if there's really a word for this. It'd be akin to hating people from an entire nation, but I don't know if that particular form of prejudice has ever been giving a name.
I'm no linguist, someone come up with something.
>>43656750
>The pinnacle of Star Wars weapon technology was the Death Star, a weapon feared because it could exterminate planets... something the Covenant does easily.
The Covenant sets the surface on fire easily. Blowing up a planet requires several hundred trillions times more energy for an earth sized planet. It requires accelerating the entire planet's mass to greater than it's escape velocity to defeat it's own gravitational field.
The death star was feared because it was like watching someone use a nuke to kill an ant.
The Covenant and the UNSC are on Tier 2 of the Kardashev scale. The Galactic Republic is on Tier 3.
The difference between the Galactic Republic and the Covenant is the difference between the Covenant and 21st century Earth.
Starfleet would be a better match for the Covenant.
>>43661093
>like watching someone use a nuke to kill an ant
that's more funny than scary, tbqh pham
>>43661511
The Galactic Republic does not span the entirety of the SW Galaxy.
It is a high Tier 2, not a Tier 3.
Still a lot larger than the Covenant, mind.
>>43663242
Also the kardashev scale is based on energy use, not fucking size and there is no way they get anywhere 3.
Ok, For those of you wanting to know what real space combat would look like assuming we don't just lob relativistic asteroids at other planets like monkeys flinging poop:
This is gonna sound silly, but hear me out.
Railguns that fire tinier railguns.
Basically a ship mounted main gun that fires a projectile at relativistic speeds that contains the following: tracking device/communicator, several small thrusters to realign it as it moves, a smaller railgun.
The projectile either tracks the target, or more likely, receives tracking data from it's ship. It corrects it's course to aim roughly at the target. When close enough the railgun inside the projectile fires a relativistic shotgun blast at the target. Even a grain of sand at those speeds will punch right through feet of steel. Having a cloud of them hit will turn the target to swiss cheese.
>>43657898
Read GURPS spaceships series, pick your favorite technologies, allow them and run with it.
>>43656612
The Republic and CIS-scum would utterly rape the Covenant. The Covenant would be out-numbered, out-teched and out-led.
>>43657639
So it would be a couple dozen savages getting gunned down by 20 times their number?
>>43657531
>huragok
>knowing what they are doing
Tell that to the one who was so fucking curious he accidentally half the covenant separatist fleet, a moon, a shipyard, and half a planet.
>>43661093
Didn't it also have, like, crazy huge range? They chose to fire on Alderaan instead of Dantooine because Dantooine was too remote to be an effective show of force, not too remote to physically hit. Covenant ships actually have to get in range and perform a drawn-out orbital bombardment to annihilate a planet. If the Covenant glassing a planet is like beating someone with a hammer until they die, then the Death Star is like a sniper rifle with high-explosive bullets.
>>43656612
Not particularly well.
Both factions use plasma bolt based weapons pretty regularly, but Star War's capital ship shields could arguably take significantly more punishment.
Planets in Star Wars can also field planetary shields which protect them from the kind of orbital bombardment the Covenant specialize in, as well as ground-to-orbit defensive weapons like turbolasers, or Ion Cannons which can completely cripple capital ships.
Plus hyperspace travel is faster than slipspace travel, which would allow Star Wars fleets to react to Covenant attacks with greater speed.
In addition, the Republic is pretty massive, and has access to thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of planets worth of resources.
>>43664941
The DS has a hyperdrive. Dantooine was remote in that it was off the beaten path.
>>43656612
What I want to know is how spartans would compare against null-arcs
>>43657166
Not really, humanity could occasionally drive the Covenant off on the ground, but then they'd usually just fall back to orbit and begin plasma bombardment.
>>43658013
Most of it, but there are some things in the EU that are still canon.
>>43657898
Frankly even in Strike Vector homing weapons weren't a guaranteed hit either.
Hell even if we're talking about laser weapons the slight delay might make it difficult to hit if we're talking realistic space distances between combat ships.
>>43658272
Shrapnel doesn't work on Covenant ships, they have impressive shielding technology, going by the books.
>>43658338
This sounds awesome. Could have specialized guard ships for the main FTL ship, hunter-killer ships, long range (artillery) ships.
>>43658719
>>43658725
America in WW2 = The Eagles in LotR
>>43658343
But OP specified that the Covenant invasion would happen during the Clone wars so it makes no sense to include stuff that won't be invented until 40 years later.
>>43660549
>>43660689
Xenophobic fits. Misanthropist, maybe.
>>43660313
The kind of morality you're thinking of is a very new, very HUMAN invention when it comes to the history of war. Why do you assume we (or especially an alien species) would still have our liberal views (generally in the Western world) towards warfare, in the future.
Giant space Empires don't become that way by giving a flying fuck about morality.
>>43666934
Even if planetary genocide isn't something a hypothetical interstellar nation won't have any qualms with(they probably will), it's still not a shit-hot idea in the first place.
While flinging asteroids at planets and engineering plagues is all well and good, the point of conquest isn't (usually) to utterly annihilate the enemy. In a war against your own kind, at least, the point of conquest is to expand your control over resources, populations and territories. Could we strap engines to an asteroid and send it careening into this world, destroying a vast swathe of the population outright, and ruining the planet's ecology in the process? Sure.
But habitable worlds are rare, and running the imperial logistics train necessary to move millions of our own colonists to the planet just to set up some mines or refueling outposts or what have you simply isn't economical. And the millions we spare will eventually be paying taxes and tribute to the nation, giving us even greater strength to go and conquer some more peons. And if they're not useful as a tax base? The other sectors need slaves.
So sure, planetary genocide seems fun, and it's certainly cheap, but even leaving morality completely out of the picture it's often simply not as pragmatic as some would make it seem.
>>43666934
>>43667017
Food for thought: the Covenant's genocide against humanity was actually pretty divisive within the Covenant's lower ranks. Resource losses aside, several of the beings in power at the time thought that it would turn out to be a case of annihilating a couple hundred of their worlds, forcing the humans to give up, and adopting them into the Covenant's fold as something along the lines of Grunts. As the war went on, and the Prophet of Truth continued to maintain that yes, this was a war of eradication, no exceptions, there were several who started to question the wisdom of such a campaign, especially among the elites who had come to respect the humans for their tenacity and willingness to fight (still only as much respect as they have for grunts, but still).
The policy of glassing human worlds was not a matter of prudence, tactics, economy, or any other form of resource aquisition. It was a result of the Prophet of Truth being terrified that the Covenant would fall apart if it was revealed that Humans, not the Sam 'Shyuum, were the chosen Reclaimers of the the Forerunners.
>>43667183
Yeah, exactly. "Kill everything" has not been and will not be a particularly effective method of warfare, despite what the asteroid lobber upthread seems to be suggesting. The only time such drastic measures would be deployed would be for purely ideological reasons, like with the Prophet.
And of course, we have to consider that a war composed entirely of asteroid lobbing and engineered plagues and missiles moving at FTL speeds towards a planet does not make for good stories, unless preventing or causing those things is the story's focus.
>>43658208
>PMS'ing AI created by Humanity itself.
What?
>>43659479
...wow, that's fucking shit.
>>43663678
I'd argue that space combat would actually be exceedingly rare due to its volatility and would result in, if anything, ships in close proximity firing anything with enough force behind it to breach a hull
>>43656612
Two things to keep in mind:
1) The Clone Wars was literally a front to get Palpatine into power.
2) Palpatine was trying to obtain power (according to sources that are probably no longer canon) because he had visions of an outside force invading, and he knew the Republic was weak and needed him to unite it.
Given this, I think, if the Covenant showed up and posed a serious threat to the galaxy, Palpatine would put a swift end to his Separatists, and a united Republic (with Jedi) would steamroll the Covenant.
Book Covenant, or game Covenant?
Becasue game Covenant is pushovers without a lot of the things that made them scary.
>>43659503
>Going off Legends canon
I shouldn't have laughed so hard at this.
>>43657898
so Honor Harrington?
>>43657943
yes, but the good stuff was really good
>>43658805
>Thermal detonators explode like normal grenades. Doesn't matter how they explode, because they are never shown in any game or in any but the wankiest of fluff that they have a larger blast radius nor are they shown doing much more damage. It still takes several thermal detonators to kill armored vehicles, it doesn't make people evaporate into thin air.
You're retarded.
Also they had fairly accurate stats in KOTOR
>>43658408
>Thermal detonators are nuclear fusion grenades.
If i remember correctly, we have never been shown Thermals being used in the movies. The only case we have, is that its good enough to kill Jabba the Hutt and his minions at a 10 meter range in a suicide blast.
Let's look at a few things here.
>SPACE ENGAGEMENTS
Your average medium-class MAC Cannon deals a yield of 1.17 Teratons upon impact (source: Halo Encyclopedia, which 343 cites as canon). Against small covenant ships these can deal damage, but nothing substantial. Against medium-sized ships (such as a CCS-Class Battlecruiser) it takes three to destroy the shields and damage the ship. Super-MAC's have an impact yield of a little over 9 Teratons (same source) and are said to be capable of damaging a capital ship (such as a CAS-Class Assault Carrier). This gives us a shield strength of 1-2 Teratons for Small ships, 3-5 for Medium ships, and 6-9 for Large ships. A feat where a Super-MAC cleaved clean through two medium ships and heavily damaged a third confirms these yields. The CSO-Class Supercarrier "Long Night of Solace" however was completely unhindered by Reach's Super-MAC defense network, so it is highly likely that it's shielding is simply too potent to calculate.
Offensively covenant ship weaponry is potent enough to damage or even destroy their own ships with just a few Plasma Torpedoes or a single Energy Projector.
All of this means The Covenant will likely win most if not all fleet engagements.
>cont
>>43668811
>GROUND ENGAGEMENTS
This is things are a little more even. Your average Unggoy and Kig-yar is about as equipped as your average Droid or Trooper. Offensively there are numerous statements that in-game weapon damages are changed to favor the player and if they were accurate with canon the game would be unplayable. Just a Plasma Pistol has feats where it completely vaporizes someone's head and neck with an uncharged shot, and Fuel Rods have feats where they completely vaporized a pelican. Add in Sangheili shock troops who are canonically strong and agile enough to fight Spartans in CQC. Wookies are cited as being super strong but their only feats are ripping people's arms off, which is pretty laughable compared to a Spartan-II/Sangheili/Jiralhanae. Mgalekgolo would be strong enough to probably kill a Rancor with a single shield bash to the face, since they can kill a Gúta pretty effortlessly. Hell, the Sharquoi is technically canon (even if it's never been shown), and is even stronger and tougher than a Mgalekgolo. Vehicle-wise the covenant has a formidable war machine with heavy platforms, artillery, and air support that will pulverize most Star Wars universe support more often than not.
>cont
>>43668835
Defensively Unggoy have armor comparable to your basic trooper droid so they aren't going to survive very well, especially since your average Blaster deals about 100 Kilojoules and your strongest deal roughly 1,000. Kig-yar have their shield gauntlets, which are comparable to the Gungan shield gauntlets, which proved very effective, meaning Kig-yar infantry would fare pretty well. Without those they aren't much more protected than an Unggoy, however. Sangheili and Mgalekgolo are where the Covenant would really gain an edge. Not only are Sangheili agile enough with a fast enough reaction time to practically dance around Blaster fire (which only moves at about 39 m/s - 150 m/s), but their Energy Shields have feats that put them at anywhere from 15 Megajoules to 60 Megajoules, depending on their rank. Mgalekgolo would be virtually Blasterproof to anything but the strongest shots or pinpoint hits that strike their back or neck.
Overall I would still give the Covenant an edge in ground combat.
Now let's look at tactics, which is where most of you will give Star Wars without question, but you might be mistaken. For virtually the whole war with the Covenant, the Covenant weren't treating it like a war, they were treating it like exterminating pests. When a planet didn't have forerunner artifacts on it, the only reason they would go on the ground at all is just to "bloody them a little." Sangheili treated it more like going on safari than they did total war. Case point? The only Sangheili to use warfare tactics against humanity, Thel 'Vadam and Xytan Jar 'Wattinree, were virtually unstoppable in the war. Since it wouldn't take the arriving Covenant fleet long to realize "oh shit, our star maps don't match," they would be treating the situation much more seriously.
>cont, last post
>>43668811
>Halo weapon specs
Stop embarrassing yourself, Anon. Shit makes about as much sense as 40k weapon specs.
>>43668848
So that being said, a few things can happen, most of which would depend on what planet they appear closest to. If they appear next to a planet heavily populated by humans they might shoot first and ask questions later, but if they don't initially encounter humans they might just try to gain information on where the hell they are. They might realize the humans here aren't the same ones they were exterminating and try to become their own faction in the universe, or if they already started shooting shit they might just try to fight everyone and take over, in which they would need to conquer a number of planets for resources and set up shipyards. If they did that, they could probably pull it off, but otherwise they would eventually wear down on resources and lose.
So, consider a hypothetical universe in which Humanity was granted acceptance into the Covenant. What role would they serve? Personally, I would bet that they would play basically the same role as Salarians do in ME: science/engineering/CIA specialists, with black ops on the side
>>43668938
Elites during the war were basically wondering why humans weren't given the offer to join.
They would probably be put in a variety of roles, mostly similar to what you described, but I don't think it would take long for the Prophets to feel threatened by them as the governmental leaders, so either humanity wouldn't gain much political power due to the prophets keeping them on a tight leash, or there would be a civil war.
>>43668811
>>43668835
>>43668848
why are you seriously listing halo weapon powerlevels? Don't you know that the writers basically have the numbers listed as a fancy way of saying A MILLION BAJILLION JOULES of energy?
>>43669691
Yeah, Halo weapons have a power of plot.
Just like SW weapons, 40k weapons, Starcraft weapons etc...
High Charity > Death Star. It's got a forerunner warship in it for ready for use.
>>43657837
>>43657809
So what you're saying is, primary source is only source? Then everything Cortana has uttered outside the game is hereunto rendered complete bullshit. When you invalidate those sources, you also invalidate the Halo Encyclopedia (canon or no).
Going from there, based purely on demonstrable tactics, combat, and defenses... Republic would win.
>>43669863
People who aren't inhumanly dense recognize that the difference between the two is that Bungie/343 didn't make the entirety of their EU non-canon
>>43669691
>>43669701
Outside the Super MACs, the power levels do run fairly analogous to real life numbers in capacity in Halo. The tech isn't so far future as to defy current technological classification.
wouldn't terrorism be a massive concern with any civilization that possesses FTL travel? I mean, consider stuff like Alcubierre drives, which provide FTL travel by riding gravity waves. Turn it on too close to a planet, and the gravitational tidal forces would rip it to shreds, or at least cause serious damage to any local civilization. You'd have to place very strict regulations on who could own and operate such devices, so that people wouldn't nuke whole civilizations at a time
>>43657898
When it comes to massive scale ships in honest capital ship space combat, the priority switches from destroying your enemy to incapacitation. You have to expect that your enemy may have shields, and that shields and armor are going to be very, very heavy in order to protect functionality and life. However, in order to ideally protect your vessel the functionality is going to flow outward from the core of your vessel. The idealized capital ship, not being required to move through atmo will then likely be spherical instead of looking like a giant metal space penis. This allows for a power core capable of venting massive amounts of energy in any feasible direction necessary with equal delivery, and makes every single floor of the ship it's own level of armor plating.
Going from there then, the idealized weaponry is going to be something that doesn't deal massive amounts of splash damage across a field, but something that can deliver pinpoint destruction to the single most important spots on any space-faring vessel. This means tightly focused beam weapons designed for puncturing. This reduces waste and time spent, saving resources (as capital ships are going to be ridiculously expensive to produce) and so keeping them intact and ultimately salvaging enemy vessels will be top priority.
>>43669941
Actually, no, the "ideal" ship design wouldn't be a sphere. Especially when you have extremely power-hungry systems like shielding and FTL drives. Spheres have some of the highest volume-to-surface ratios of any simple geometry, and thus provide an awful design for venting heat into space, especially if you're socking these huge generators at the ship's core. Venting heat in space is a massive concern, since heat exchange via radiation is relatively inefficient when you're close to a star -- and there are no other means of doing so. Regardless, heat transfer only happens across the surface of an object, so to avoid roasting your crew, you need to choose a geometry that maximizes surface area with respect to volume. Furthermore, you need to place your engines and cooling fins in locations such that they don't end up heating each other up, which would be counter-productive. Your two basic choices are a thin disk with a massive radius, or a very long cylinder with a small radius. These also pack closer together than spheres, which is an added bonus when transporting tons of ships en masse.
Ironically, a penis-ship (neglecting the ballsack) is a much better geometry than a sphere.
Also, depending on how complex and/or vital of a system that your pinpoint weapons destroyed, it may be easier to scrap the damaged ship and start over with a new one. Like having a totaled engine block or power train: yeah, you could technically replace them, but at that point it's basically cheaper to just get a new car
>>43669940
Not only that, but any FTL weapon becomes a stealth relativity projectile capable of wiping out a target as well, since you cannot detect it faster than it travels.
>>43670021
I concede the point of geometry, but a car is easily mass produced whereas a massive capital ship would still be more likely to be better for overhaul and refit. The sheer amount of time invested in constructing one alone can mean the different in winning versus losing a war, especially when you fight to incapacitate, capture, and assimilate.
>>43669940
>43670021
Star Wars style FTL explicitly disallows that sort of thing. Hyperspace is basically a subdimension and all hyperdrives have built-in, hardcoded safeties that prevent the ships from entering hyperspace too close to any gravity well and revert the ship to realspace when they enter said gravity wells. It's how Interdictor cruisers work, they generate gravity wells that yank ships out of hyperspace.
>>43664914
“This is the prototype NOVA Bomb, nine fusion warheads encased in lithium triteride armor. When detonated, it compresses its fissionable material to neutron-star density, boosting the thermonuclear yield a hundredfold. I am Vice Admiral Danforth Whitcomb, temporarily in command of the UNSC military base Reach. To the Covenant uglies that might be listening, you have a few seconds to pray to your damned heathen gods. You all have a nice day in hell...”
That was one of the best moments of Ghosts of Onyx by far - the fact that bomb had been basically moving between covie ship to covie ship since the fall of Reach and had only been activated by sheer luck was what made me Lul while reading it.
>>43670578
the problem with doing that is that it would take so long to get safely away from a planet using sub-lightspeed travel, that you've defeated the purpose of having FTL travel on your ship
>>43670277
but what if the parts that youre weapons total to incapacitate the ship are the parts that account for ~90% of the ship's total cost and time to construct? It's the same basic issue as a car, just scaled up: there are certain components of the machine such that when you break them, it is quicker and cheaper to make an entirely new machine than it is to remove the broken components, repair the surrounding systems, make a new component, and put it back in
>>43670578
>>43669940
>>43670162
Not only that -- Alcubierre predicted that any craft that used a variant of his FTL method would emit metric fucktons of high-energy gamma waves radially outward from it's position, so long as it was going FTL (the doppler effect in action). So you don't just have to worry about gravitational tidal forces, you have to worry about radiation vaporizing the surface of your destination/source
>>43669730
You don't need a Death Star to fight that. Just General Grievous's capital ship with the Ion Cannon attatchment to knock out all power, board the vessel, and kill everyone with endless expendable droids and lightsabers.
Bam, Separatists got control of one of the strongest ships in the galaxy.
>>43673758
>covenant
>losing to battle droids
>on their home turf
lol
>>43668811
You basically went full Salvation War gunwank.
The only essential bits of intel for this scenario
>Covenant have ships with energy weapons and shields
>Republic and Separatists have ships with energy weapons and shields.
>Covenant doesn't seem to have fighters while SW fleets do, meaning the key to victory is how well the Covenant can wipe out the enemy before the bombers reach them.
Power levels mean jack shit in SW. All you need to know is energy comes in a variety of colors and the bigger the bolt, the more damaging it is. If it has the name 'bomb' in it, shields mean poop against it.
>>43673793
Not losing to battle droids. Losing to Super Battle Droids.
>>43673823
>covenant doesn't have fighters
what is a Seraph
what is a Space Banshee
>>43673895
Then list them next time instead of measuring space penis sizes.
>>43673927
I wasn't that guy, I haven't really been following
>>43673961
Well then care to classify what role those fighters would be in a dogfight? I don't follow much Halo lore beyond the basics.
>>43673989
Seraph is the covenant's generic space fighter/bomber. It's got shields and it can carry a variety of payloads to the battle. The Space Banshee is more for CQC dogfighting, it's 2quick,2maneuverable and very tiny, but it's armaments are light, and it has no shields. Anything that gets past them gets taken care of by the mountains of point-defense laser turrets that are mounted on the hulls of Covenant ships -- the reason why the UNSC has to launch archer missiles in swarms of hundreds is because 90% of them are taken out by these defenses.
>>43659697
>ignoring that every piece of armor, post Covenant contact, is made to deflect energy-based projectiles
The S-II armor was made with that in mind, and once it proved effective was mass-produced to every UNSC they could find. I imagine, due to a penchant for in-fighting (Heretics) and severe lack of projectile-weaponry before Human-Covenant War, the Covies would have quite a fucking lot of armor that shrugs energy-based weaponry.
Besides the Force, Covies kind of outclass everything in the SW canon. And even with the Force, I imagine all it would take is a Ripa 'Moramee kind of Elite to figure out how to use the Force, barring that shitty attempt at rationalizing how the Force works in Ep1.If that mitichlorian thing is canon we all just need to admit The Force is half-baked psionics and move on
>>43664914
That was a Grunt, anon
>>43674052
Well in that case, they'd stand toe to toe with a Republic fleet. Seraph and Arc fighters would get stalemated in the middle while the banshee and Y-wings head for their respective targets. I'm gonna assume that Covenant anti-ship defenses are the same as SW antiship, pouring ungodly amounts of firepower to deplete shields to destroy the fighter. If so, a banshee's best hope is to just crash into the cruiser, while a bomber may have to make several runs against a ship, bombing defenses and offensive weapons before going for the bridge. A typical battle will probably be determined by which side's fighters manage to pull out on top. Arc escorts would make a Y-wing bombing run easier, and the Seraphs would be able to go straight for the bridge if they can pull away from the skirmish.
A Separatist fleet? Eh sorta the same as above but they use numbers rather than tactics. Just swamp the enemy in droid fighters/interceptors so the capital ships can get close enough to chew up the enemy with the turbo lasers.
>>43674059
>If that mitichlorian thing is canon we all just need to admit The Force is half-baked psionics and move on
Eh it sort of is, sort of isn't. The New Canon took bits that people liked and removed the bits they didn't. Basically they are mitochondria organelles that come from one planet that allow organics to tap into the existing Force or something? Still not too clear on what it is.
>>43674168
>get close and swarm them with turbolasers
good luck if you're trying to do that against the covenant. The Covenant prefer to snipe people from the maximum range of their weapons (which extend to 100,000km), and are fans of making pinpoint, short range slipspace jumps in a naval variant of the >teleports behind you meme
>>43674272
If it's in the SW home turf, let's assume all FTL works as SW FTL, meaning no Slipspace jiggery. You'll have to waste time making calculations and trying not to decelerate into a star.
>Covenant prefer to snipe people from the maximum range of blah blah blah
Yeah effective range of whatever, Imperial Commanders like to do the same thing, pester enemy fleet with swarms of fighters till they are in range of turbo lasers and hit them with a barrage. With the new canon, they don't really establish what is effective range, so we can assume both sides reach that point at roughly the same distance. If it's Republic, it will probably fall to numbers as their gun placements are all over the damn place. They'd go pointblank(broadsides) only during the most desperate of occasions. At that range, they can devastate anything, but they are also most vulnerable to damage.
>teleports behind you
Separatists like that too. But those are the reserve they keep in hiding, not the fleet you are engaging.
>>43674059
The whole Jedi/Sith thing is part force, part fighting knowledge. Do the elites just swing their plasma sword as hard as they can, or do they have any fencing/martial arts style?
>>43674362
>If it's in the SW home turf, let's assume all FTL works as SW FTL, meaning no Slipspace jiggery.
I'm gonna stop you right there, because you're trying to limit a legitimate Covenant war tactic just because they wound up in star wars.
They have slipspace, plasma, and hardlight technology, not hyperspace, turbolaser, and force containment field technology.
>Imperial Commanders like to do the same thing, pester enemy fleet with swarms of fighters till they are in range of turbo lasers and hit them with a barrage
Except all of those fighters are going to do fuck all to a covenant's shielding and will get shot down in just a few seconds from point-defense turrets. Just a medium-sized covenant ship can snipe 400 missiles flying at it at 0.1c. Star Wars fighters will get shat on.
>>43674527
Missiles aren't shielded.
>>43674591
Doesn't matter when was hitting you can vaporize 20 m3 of titanium instantly.
>>43674527
>I'm gonna stop you right there, because you're trying to limit a legitimate Covenant war tactic just because they wound up in star wars.
Then what's to stop SW factions from developing their own? There are still a dozen planet wide megacorps that will have fighters equipped with that new tech in the space of a few weeks.
>Except all of those fighters are going to do fuck all to a covenant's shielding and will get shot down in just a few seconds from point-defense turrets. Just a medium-sized covenant ship can snipe 400 missiles flying at it at 0.1c. Star Wars fighters will get shat on.
Actually no, those bombs are designed to punch through shields to hit hard targets on enemy vessels. That's why SW employs interceptors to take them down before they reach their targets.
Also they come equipped with deflector shields, unlike missiles. Also unlike missiles, they are piloted meaning they won't keep going into incoming fire, they will deviate and change direction, that direction in one part being guided by a droid that calculates the most effective route for the bomber. Because point defenses can only go so far.
>>43674668
More math. This means nothing in S, that doesn't even employ real world alloys. For all you know plasteel can resists that sort of junk.
>>43658558
>A gun that shoots FTL Planets
>>43658318
The explanation I've always heard for SW being called Science Fantasy isn't that it's sciencey and fantastic, but rather that it's a traditional fantasy story (hero's journey and all that) in space.
The terms "science fiction" and "science fantasy," if you go by literal definitions, are interchangeable, since they both refer to stories-that-aren't-100%-true (fiction or fantasy) that heavily involve science. However, people typically use the term "science fiction" to describe stories about technology's effect on people or groups thereof, so when someone wanted a term to refer to "knights vs dragons type fantasy but in space" they needed something else and chose "science fantasy" as a combination of the names of the two genres.
Which category Halo fits into I don't know, since I don't really analyze stories or whatever. The games, at least, aren't sci-fi in the sense that they don't try to talk about what the Chief's life is like with all that tech in him, but that's largely because the plots of the games boil down to "are you a bad enough dude to stop/protect X?" and the Chief doesn't really change over the course of the game (heck, he barely changes over the course of the series).
>>43658187
This whole post is bull except the Jedi thing.
Star Wars ships fight each other naval style, at distances measurable in kilometers. This is true in the OT, the PT, Clone Wars, even Rebels.
Blasters can't even bore a long way through bark.
Fanfic Universe need not apply. Movies are the core of Star Wars. If it contradicts what's on the screen, it should be disregarded.
>>43674727
>what's to stop the SW factions from developing their own
because this discussion is supposed to be about which faction wins with their native equipment, not which faction can steal technology the most effectively from the other
>all this bullshit about how the droid interceptors BTFO point defense lasers
the point of a point-defense laser is that it's a LASER. A droid AI can't maneuver to dodge a shot that it literally can't detect. All that fancy "program the easiest route through the flak" nonsense doesn't work when the robots can't detect the flak (since it's moving at the speed of light)
>>43674118
No, Kawassass the grunt was the one who decoded the transmission, it was a huragok near him that reassembled the detonator and restarted the countdown
>>43675105
huragoks are 2pure for this world
>>43674727
1. Because that's not how these versus threads work. Each faction gets their standard equipment unless stated otherwise in the OP. This is Halo versus Star Wars. Unmodified.
2 yeah, the bombers are designed to punch through heavy shielding, for Star Wars. Which has much lower shielding than the covenant.
>>43674745
Actually yes Math is incredibly important for these kinds of debates. For example, since all EU for Star Wars is not canonical, a Heavy Turbolaser from a Star Destroyer can only deal about 10-20 Megatons of firepower per shot, while just your average Covenant ship has energy shields in the Teratons, meaning an entire bombardment from a star destroyer won't even diminish 15% of a Battlecruisers shields.
>>43675554
>my made up numbers are totally bigger than your made up numbers
There's a reason people don't take author fanwank numbers seriously in these threads.
I came here looking for a good honest debate.
Instead all I'm getting is
>My guys have an everything proof shield
>My guys break your everything proof shield with an anti-everything gun
>My guys have an anti-everything gun shield. Here's a bunch of fantasy numbers to prove it.
Because neither side is willing to admit their guys can lose because it's their side.
>>43674985
>the point of a point-defense laser is that it's a LASER
So is every weapon in Star wars.
>dodge a shot that it literally can't detect.
Why can't it detect it?
> robots can't detect the flak (since it's moving at the speed of light)
And yet they do anyway.
>>43675683
Except, you know, they're not made up, they're canon.
It takes 3 MAC's to pop a covenant ship's energy shields. Each MAC, sourced by the officially licensed Halo Encyclopedia, deals 1.17 Teratons upon impact.
It's okay that you can't add three numbers together, you'll graduate the third grade soon.
>>43675994
Being canon doesn't make them any less 'look how big our numbers are' fanwank. Outside of muh technical specs bullshit, do they actually get shown as being the apocalyptic everything fucker those numbers would imply?
>>43676064
Well covenant energy projectors are what they use to glass planets, and they completely bypass all of that shielding, so yes.
>>43675917
it can't detect it because the information that a laser weapon is going to hit you reaches you at the exact same time as when the laser weapon destroys you -- the detection can't happen because the information can't reach you faster than the light that's going to kill you
>>43675994
all of your posts make you sound childishly butthurt that the SW EU is noncanon and therefore the canon numbers from Halo beat out the SW weaponry. Sorry, anon, blame Disney, and face facts
