How do D&D/Pathfinder's sizes and spaces make any sense at all?
>Small size: 2 to 4 feet tall or long, occupies 5x5 foot space
>Medium size: 4 to 8 feet tall or long, occupies 5x5 foot space
>Large size: 8 to 16 feet tall or long, occupies 10x10 foot space
>Huge size: 16 to 32 feet tall or long, occupies 15x15 foot space
>Gargantuan size: 32 to 64 feet tall or long, occupies 20x20 foot space
>Colossal size: 64 to 128 feet tall or long, occupies 30x30 foot space
For instance, if a 6 foot tall creature takes up a 5x5 foot space, then why does a 48 foot tall creature take up only a 20x20 foot space? It should logically take up a 40x40 foot space, right?
How is this represented in official miniatures?
>DnD/Pathfinder
>Logical Sense
Pick one.
The space is less about physical dimensions, but the space they require to fight comfortably.
All in all, it's an abstraction used for convenience, and you shouldn't worry too much about it.
>>43652306
'Space' specifically refers to the area that the creature can attack within and can reach to attack, not the space the entire creature occupies. Meagolocentipedes, colossal worms and dragons, etc. take up much larger areas than the spaces they are given to attack in.
You would know this if you actually bothered reading the shit you complain about, like the Entries Descriptions of the Bestiary.
>>43652381
No, that would be reach.
>>43652350
>>43652381
Which explains why a 60 foot tall (Gargantuan) can fight in a 20x20 foot wide dungeon corridor just fine as long as the ceiling is high enough?
>>43652306
Space is relative, you berk.
Bigger things have more gravity, so the 48' tall creature has more gravity than the 6' creature. This means that he bends the space around him to a greater degree so the 40x40 area you would expect him to occupy is warped and squashed down into a 20x20 space instead. The 6' creature, with a much lesser gravitational pull, warps space only slightly, and so requires a 5x5 space.
This was simplified in the rules so that you the player only see the post-gravitational warping gaming area. The gravitational artefacts were not considered a significant enough factor in the game world to represent visually, but you can recreate them yourself if you like, simply by wearing spectacles that are much too strong for your own eyes.
/science
>>43652350
>>43652381
This makes no sense at all.
A 6 foot tall guy needs a 5 foot square to maneuver around in. Okay, I can believe that, he needs a square around 83% of his height to fight in.
Scale him up to 8 times his size. 48 feet. Now he needs only a 20 foot square to fight comfortably in. Wait, what? 20 feet is only 41% of his height. What's going on here?
>>43652410
If you want, you can map out the exact dimensions of the creature's feet, assemble an algorithm that would calculate the exact coordinates those feet would be placed at any given time during a battle, then assemble a tiered structure of layered cubes to provide a facsimile of the coordinates of its legs, then its torso, shoulders, arms, etc., along with the various calculations to determine where they would reasonably be at any point in a fight, all to produce an array that would be rather hard to fit and maneuver within the scale used.
Or, just think "Yeah, I could fit on a 2x2 space. A giant ten times my height could fit in a 20x20 space."
>>43652433
The 5 foot square is used for convenience. It's used for creatures 3 feet tall to 8 feet tall.
When it comes to larger creatures, the squares become more of a "minimum size required for the creature to comfortably fit in," or "the smallest amount of spaces that the creature can fit its body into without taking any substantial penalties." There are also squeezing rules, which are penalties assigned for creatures fighting in spaces to small to comfortably fit them, such as tunnels and corridors.
Usually, the monster extends beyond the spaces, but for the sake of convenience, the game has a "hit box", an assigned area that designates where the monster HAS to be during any given point during a battle, for the sake of targeting.
Trust me, it works in the game, and if you have a problem with this abstraction, you're going to lose your mind when you hear about HP.
>>43652481
Or maybe the 48 foot tall guy could occupy a 40x40 foot space. That would make too much sense though.
>>43652526
The problem with that is stuff like reach rules, which are used to simulate the fact that a monster can hit you with its limbs from a fair distance before you have a chance at striking at any of its vitals.
With a 20x20ft space occupying creature typically having a reach of 20ft, that means we're looking at a threatened space of 60x60 ft, which is 12 inches by 12 inches. That's a tight squeeze on most tables.
Then, with Colossal, we're looking at 40x40, which ends up being 120x120 with a 40ft reach, or 2 feet square in reality. With table space at a premium, we're looking at monsters that make maneuvering already difficult, and you're advocating that we instead increase that further.
>>43652596
Bigass monsters really should get to control the space around them better.
>>43652306
Gargantuan creatures occupy a 20x20 ft. square space OR LARGER (in D&D 5e at least).
>>43652716
That's only because 5e axed Colossal.
>>43652596
>it can't work because the optional miniatures won't allow it
>>43652306
3e standardized sizes for the purpose of miniatures.
4e kept the standardized sizes for the purpose of miniatures.
5e claims to not need miniatures, but still keeps the standardized shit because it's best run with miniatures.
Prior to it becoming a miniatures game, the sizes were just for the purposes of description since you didn't need hard maps.
Though back then a dragon miniature that fit the size of a proper AD&D dragon would probably take up your entire fucking table.
>>43652306
No, that makes sense. Think of it as including a sort of "personal space," a buffer around the space the creature actually physically occupies that comprises the distance the authors think is reasonable to be separated in battle.
So a Giant takes up much more physical space - but you can run right up to their feet and start hacking away at their ankles. Humans can take up more space with their arms, but you can run right under a giant's reach.
>>43654186
And when someone becomes Huge sized with some spell or psionic power, what then?
>>43654186
Why does a 6 foot tall human take a big penalty for trying to fight in a 2.5 foot wide mountain pass, while a 48 foot tall giant takes no penalty at all for fighting in a 20 foot wide mountain pass?
>How is this represented in official miniatures?
It isn't.
The current WizKids ones only go up to Large. Maybe the super-expensive collector's singles (like Tiamat and Bahamut) are the right size, but anything above Large probably wouldn't fit in the box.
A shame because the first set had lots of dragons (since it was Tyranny of Dragons), but none of them match the adult (Huge) size dragons in the adventure.
