It's been a while since we talked about this - how do you feel about the old Stormtrooper design compared to the Tempestus Scions now?
Honestly? I quite like the redesign. Something about the how bulky and almost puffy the old stormtrooper armour looked, the helmets and gasmasks also just looked wrong. Not even in a old school 40k shitty tech kind of way, like a bad art direction kind of way.
I also like the new armour because it makes them look more gothic.
I just wish Terminator armour wasn't so iconic, because the fucking helmets are so hideously fucked up looking IMO they need an update. At least I have the Forgeworld Terminator armours.
New Scions are probably my favorite army right now, because they look so badass. I'm not the biggest fan of the beret's, but I don't have to have them so it doesn't bother me.
It's a damn shame that the codex is meant to be an ally instead of a full army in and of itself, maybe it will grow into its own if it gain popularity.
>>43613065
I like both methods I just wish they have released the new ones alongside the old ones like this is such and such pattern carapace armor >>43613201
Yeah Terminator heads are ugly however there are a few modifications that make them look better so at least there's that
>>43614624
Only thing I don't like is the taurox that thing I'd ugly as sea cucumber
Both are good. Personally I prefer the hellgun design to the new hotshots, but that's a minor issue.
Wonderful models. Slowly making a platoon by buying individual boxes in between larger projects.
>>43613065
>>43613201
This thread makes no sense. This is what a storm trooper looks like
>>43613065
I quite like the Scions but I really do feel that they don't fit in with the Guard at all, although they're not supposed to.
I feel they have the appearance of Inquisitorial bodyguards / specialist troops whereas the Karskins & Stormtroopers did feel like they were apart of the Guard just more Elite.
Its going to take something special to get me to give up the Karskin.
the BEST sergeant, kitted up like a player character that refuses to throw anything away
>>43614765
In all honesty, the Taurox doesn't bother me that badly. Though personally I play Valkyres, so I never see them.
>>43614827
I actually have a different colored squad of them, for specific use as henchmen for my Inquisitor ally. They fit perfectly for it.
>>43614860
I like how practical they look. They're there to get a job done, nothing too fancy or flashy about them, equipment at the ready. They resonate professional, elite storm troopers.
The Scions on the other hand have the "glory-boys" look about them, they're dressed up for the occasion, dressed to impress with their gilding on the armour and fancy gadgets.
They're the flashy glory stealing bastards.
>>43613065
New MT aren't bad, but old Stormtroopers are way better.
They weren't as gothic, but they feel more familiar and "40K" while the new stuff feels a lot more "new 40k".
New models are better
Old fluff was better
Taurox is shit
I really like the new Tempestus dudes but I still am trying to figure out exactly how they work int he fluff.
I just wish there was some way to fit both the look of the old Stormtroopers back into the game. I liked them. They felt like real dudes. Part of the appeal of the Imperial Guard that the Astra Millitarum doesn't seem to quite get is that they felt like they were real people thrust into this horrible place. All the regiments of old felt like actual fighting forces instead of Star Wars Stormtroopers. I like the new guys but that's what they feel like.
>>43613065
The new armor looks much better, but the fluff is awful.
>>43615083
>flashy glory stealing bastards
>not marines
also that model is showing it's age, those eyes man. not to mention the guy in the left back has seen some shit
>>43615762
You haven't read the Stormtrooper fluff recently have you?
>>43615958
no i have not, what's the skinny?
>>43615715
I think they are supposed to be the same as the old stormtroopers but with a new retcon for name and design. And also now instead of being IG elites like Army Rangers or US Marines are, and being Inquisition/GK mooks, they are also their own special ops style army.
>>43615083
wait, hold up. Those fancy gadgets are present on the 3rd ed troopers as well, you know. They were the first ones to do the wrist computer thing.
Shoulder-cam's straight out of Aliens, too.
>>43615994
>they are also their own special ops style army
that's not new
pretty much all that's changed is the name and the look
>>43616057
>that's not new
You never had a full Stormtrooper army before 6E.
>>43615976
There's a certain degree of hostility towards the Stormtroopers from the regular Guard due to them getting better gear and them swooping in and taking the glory from the regular guardsmen.
They're nicknamed "Glory boys" and "Big Toy Soldiers".
The good old days. Pic related.
>>43615715
IIRC Scions all come from the Schola Progenium but didn't have the oomph to be made leaders like Commissars or Arbites from the get go. So since they've been trained with all the weapons since childhood they're considered worth enough of a damn to arm with better weapons from the get go, unlike your typical conscript.
>>43616068
In the tabletop rules yes, but stormtrooper companies, and stormtroopers operating in larger units have existed since they were first created.
>>43615083
I always felt that the guard and the old stormtroopers were meant to evoke a feeling of more WWI and WWIIish kind of warfare and weaponry, just like the Tau are more or less classic sci-fi, the Space Marines are knightly, ect.
I know the Imperial Guard could be anything from half-feral cavemen to men with an extensive pedigree and super-futuristic weaponry, but when Cadians and Death Korps were the guardsmen I most saw, I tended to make that association.
The new stormtroopers do feel rather flashy to me, and their gothic-ness seems off for an army that, despite all attempts to the contrary, doesn't feel like the sisters or the space marines in their weight of ancient heritage.
>>43616046
>are present on the 3rd ed troopers
Where? I don't see them on the Stormtroopers, Kasrkin or SAS style ones. Everyone has sleeves or forearm armour with what looks like some sort of Vox kit.
I also don't see ornate, gilded armour
>>43613065
I feel the new design fits the fluff for Tempestus Scions, but something about the old storm trooper models was very nice. Tempestus Scions look like marines lite, like they wouldn't be out of place leading an attack against the forces of Chaos. The old storm troopers look like guys who kick down your door, drag you out of your house, torture you until you implicate someone in something and execute you with a lasgun shot to the head.
>>43616068
>What are alternative regimental organisations in 4th edition codex?
You could literally take up to 3 squads of stormtroopers as troops. So yeah, get fucked m8.
>>43616173
>I don't see them on the Stormtroopers, Kasrkin or SAS style ones.
It's right in the OP, mate. Kasrkin also have a similar doohickey on their wrists.
>I also don't see ornate, gilded armour
It's just a riveted cuirass. Only real problem with it is the studio scheme adding gold to it.
>>43616219
If you honestly change the color from gold, it looks better. Silver is a nice workaround.
>>43616219
I'm looking at the models m8 and I can't see shit on the left arm.
>>43616271
m8 I own a squad of each version of stormtroops. Check that plasma sergeant posted earlier in the thread. He's got 'em on both arms.
>>43616203
Yeah with a non-MT HQ.
>>43616203
>>43616315
>m8
Daily reminder that moot was right about Australian shitposters.
>>43616315
I see two buttons on an arm. I see no screen or other fancy bullshit the Scions have.
The fuck are you talking about? 'cause I specifically mentioned those buttons previous.
>>43614624
You can play them as their own army. Even if you're restricted to 4 units( not counting the commisar) you've got an army that plays hard and fast on the field. Think DE but replaced with humans and you get the MT codex.
>>43616269
This. I don't really have many good examples on hand, but some anon's work here shows how the ornate parts look a lot better with a less fancy-looking metal.
If nothing else, I can appreciate the variety.
>>43616346
>I see fancy bullshit on an arm. I see no fancy bullshit the Scions have.
okay then
I mean, hey look, the kasrkin also have no fancy bullshit on their arms. The scions are definitely not using design elements from every version of the stormtroopers wrapped up in a little cuirass-shaped bow. No sir.
>>43616327
In english please?
>>43616427
>two buttons =/= fancy bullshit
I mean, I can totally see how you can confuse two buttons WITH AN ENTIRE FUCKING GLOWY SCREEN OF BULLSHIT.
Then again two buttons is probably fancy bullshit for you...
![jin-roh[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EBCKFv6.jpg "jin-roh[2].jpg")
>>43613201
>the helmet
>the night vision
>>43616418
Holy shit, that's actually the base I used for my models. The main difference though was I kept the colors dark, with a blue instead of the red and a darker shade for the pants and shoulders, with finally silver on the skull at top. I'd post them if they weren't back home.
>>43616078
That's not very new fluff, it predates the Scions.
>>43614765
This. The Taurox is absolutely awful. The model design, especially vehicles, has gone way downhill. Not as bad as the turducken (aka centurion) but pretty awful.
I would have preferred either a new pattern of Chimera/Rhino, or something like a Stryker. Has anyone seen the Lion transport from Khurasan Miniatures? Something like that.
I like both types of Stormtrooper. I hate the post-Chapterhouse "scions" branding, so I hope we start seeing IG and stormtrooper names again under the new management. GW's IP is perfectly secure even if they can't trademark every stupid comma and parenthetical. And no number of trademarks is enough to keep competitors out.
>>43617024
Where exactly did I say it was new fluff? If he had read the fluff in general recently he would have gotten the glory boys reference waved liberally in front of him.
>>43616136
>Sardaukar
>>43616173
I'm really not a fan of all the shitty imperial iconography on the armor. Yes, yes, it makes sense in-universe, of course. I just hate that the real reason is copyrights.
>>43615083
they look like they have down syndrome
>>43616136
Aw yeah, the Space SAS. I've still got a bunch of those guys in storage...somewhere
>>43613201
>how bulky
As oppose to the Scions with their heavy cuirass and tassets? Seriously? Fucking hell...
>helmets and gasmasks also just looked wrong
In what way? The mask looked a lot like the SAS one and the helmet looked similar to what the Elysians used, who are known for their air dropping and behind enemy lines shit.
I'll take space special forces over Marines lite any day of the week.
>>43616219
I painted all their armour in a dark green camouflage pattern on mine
>>43615692
Fucking five-star post.
>>43614860
What the FUCK is that mask suppose to be?
It looks hideous!
>>43614822
Muh nigga.
>>43619440
Probably a not-S10 gas mask with a monocular vision/targeting devise, which can be seen even on dudes without a mask.
>>43619440
Some sort of gas mask - and to be fair, lenses are always hard to paint, especially on such tiny areas.
Doesn't help that there aren't very many good pictures of the old stormtroopers or their art.
>>43619440
It's reminiscent of the ugly masks SAS wore in the '80s and '90s, with some tehcno lenses or whatever because 40k.
>>43619875
>ugly
Speak for yourself, the SAS masks look cool as fuck
>>43619889
Nah.
Tell me about this Inquisitorial stromtrooper fluff I keep hearing about.
Is it actually any good? Where can I find it? What do they do? How are they organised?
>>43614822
>>43619489
ayyy your storm troopers are weird m8
>>43613065
>>43614822
>>43619489
>>43620160
Kasrkins a best.
They look so damn ferocious.
>>43614624
They shouldn't even be their own force, they're a subset if the Imperial Guard. What other shitty ideas do you have, Codex: Commissars?
its the same
>>43623121
They're not stormies, though. They're just grenadiers, like the Krieg variants.
>>43623465
Stormies have always been their own regiments and have been able to operate independent of the rest of the Guard.
Besides, they're now under the Administratum, not the Departmento Munitorum. So basically they're to the Administratum what Sisters are to the Ecclesiarchy.
>>43623539
It's a stupid idea that just makes troopers look like poor SMs
>>43623465
>Codex: Commissars
You mean we can field cadet commissar squads and bring the Emperors justice to foul Xenos?
When does it launch?
>>43613065
I love the old design. They really look like Spec-ops guys that will get behind enemy lines and have all of the enemy reserves dead before the commander even knows what is happening. The Scions look more like heavy-infantry, the guys you call in to drop out of a Valkyrie and fuck shit up with heavy weapons.
>>43623744
No, that's just how the current models look like.
Seeing that other groups than Guard make use of stormies, it's perfectly understandable to let them have their own codex-lite, just like Harlies. I just hope they get heavy weapons, like in the old days.
>>43623465
I'd buy Codex: Officio Prefectus
Frankly, I like them all. Be it the old SAS-in-Space stormies with their berets, the Inquisitorial Stormies, the Kasrkin, the Krieg grenadiers or now the Tempestus, Stormtroopers pretty much consistently had some badass models for them.
>>43615083
Frankly, I think that's more down to GWs paint schemes. If you don't use garish metallic highlights an assorted stuff on the Tempestus, they end up looking a lot more muted and professional-in-the-field looking than the official ones. Even moreso if you actually paint them in a camo pattern.
>>43625432
Even with a different paintjob the cuirass is shit. The trim is still there and it's a hulking piece of metal with some bits hanging from it.
Even on the 3e stormies the cuirass was toned down and didn't dominate the mini. If it had been something more like what SM scouts have, it'd look more like heavy piece of armour for high-tech elites of the Imperium, not something a feudal world would have as their standard armour. The hockey masks aren't helping either.
>>43623539
>they're now under the Administratum, not the Departmento Munitorum. So basically they're to the Administratum what Sisters are to the Ecclesiarchy.
Well, the Departmento Munitorum is itself under the Administratum, so this isn't much of a change.
It actually fits pretty well with the whole thing of them being more like Spetsnaz rather than Nazi stormtroopers... which considering their usage and doctrine is already a good fit. Remember, the old Soviet Union got into special operations around the same time as the British, and long before America got bit by the bug.
Just as the germans never had a terribly effective intelligence agency, their specops was pretty lackluster as well. For them, elite troops were something you used on the front line of battle.
>>43613201
neo-/tg/ everyone
>>43626436
>so this isn't much of a change.
If your secretary goes to work for your boss, she's not your secretary anymore.
Stormies are not secret agents or intelligence service. They're stormtroopers. They're elite infantry to hit the enemy where it hurts. To carry out specialist missions when ever possible. That's standard military shit and suits Munitorum and Guard perfectly. Commissars under the Administratum is just fine, since they're political officers, not military ones. Them being subservient to the administration rather than the DoD, is perfectly understandable. But the administration having armed troops directly under them, rather than their military wing, is a bit odd.
>>43626630
>If your secretary goes to work for your boss, she's not your secretary anymore.
But she still works at the same company, which is my point.
Your other point is absolutely right... but two caveats.
First, Spetsnaz GRU were assigned to military intelligence not because their primary duty was intelligence gathering (though in some missions they did this). It's because the opportunity is identified, planning is done, and the mission is executed by the intelligence agencies because they're the ones with access to the hyper-specialized and time-critical information needed for missions like this. You want your specops units to work closely with intelligence for this reason.
Putin tried separating spetsnaz from the GRU and had to put them back there when it became obvious that the two needed one another.
In America, SOCOM isn't officially anywhere near the CIA in the government's org chart. And yet the two work extremely closely together. Reportedly, the CIA's own operatives are often recruited from SOCOM as well.
Finally, any government agency wants its own police force. That's just how the logic of power works. In the US, even the dept of education ended up recruiting its own SWAT-like unit, officially to collect on student loans(!)
In dictatorships, this is squared and cubed. The KGB had its own spetsnaz, plus border troops and other paramilitary police. In WW2 they had whole divisions organized to operate behind friendly lines executing the disloyal. The Party had its own paramilitary unit, which is still very poorly understood. And the military had its troops, but also spetsnaz. China has similar factions, though they work differently.
Any power bloc within a dictatorship (like, say the Imperium) will organize its own intelligence service and militant wing. If it doesn't, then it'll quickly come under the thumb of another faction which DOES have those things.
>>43626630
>>43626863
Notice how each faction in the Imperium has its own military, its own special intelligence service, and its own web of legal immunities and special powers.
As with the old soviet system (which we know best because there were so many defectors and so many documents came out after the USSR fell), they both allow each faction to pursue its agenda on its own and also can be used to fend off other factions. Plus the military itself, theoretically stronger in troops than all other factions, is the most legally and operationally constrained. Mostly because the other factions' biggest fear is a military coup.
BTW the nazis worked this way also now that I think about it.
So now, organizations with their own intelligence networks and military forces: AdMech, Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition, Administratum, each individual planet in the Imperium. I don't know where the Space Marines get their intelligence... but I'd be surprised if they didn't have an agent network of some kind from among their serfs. The Oficio Assassinatorum has Vanus developing intelligence and obviously is its own militant arm.
The Navy has its marines, though again I don't know what if any intelligence-gathering capabilities it has. All Rogue Traders have agent networks, even if they don't call them that, and most have significant muscle as well. Plus, once again, a long list of legal immunities and special powers that may or may not apply when up against another faction with its own exemptions and pieces of paper.
>>43613201
that's why I'm thankful I have Deathwing because then I can just use the cloaks
>>43626863
>In WW2 they had whole divisions organized to operate behind friendly lines executing the disloyal.
Not this shitty myth again.
NKVD were running a bunch of border guard regiments and guard details for warehouses and factories. Plus the whole "blocking detachment" thing for a while, but those wren't there to run around executng people willy-nilly either.
>>43626863
>But she still works at the same company, which is my point.
But in a different department, under different people, and has different assignments. If you take Navy and move them under Adeptus Arbites instead of Fleet, you wouldn't say not much has changed.
As for GRU, pretty sure they're under the Russian Armed Forces. Which in turn is under the Russian Ministry of Defence.
>any government agency wants its own police force
So get your own, don't steal an existing one. I doubt the Department of Education took the Rangers from the DoD and placed them under their own care.
>>43627051
>Notice how each faction in the Imperium has its own military
So give the Administratum their own, don't steal from Munitorum.
>The Navy has its marines
Armsmen.
