![1447020551735[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b6GQlJQ.jpg "1447020551735[1].jpg")
>Until the Kickstarter ends
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hawkwargames/dropfleet-commander
22 days left in the campaign
Dropfleet Commander is a space wargame set in orbital environments developed by Hawk Wargames, who are also the developers of the tactical wargame, Dropzone Commander. Dropfleet Commander is a 1:15000 scale game, with models ranging from 70 to 200 mm; see videos below for an example of play.
>Beta game showcasing the rules
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLDc-iWib48 [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5xe3f5hyGg [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3e_RNSSST0 [Embed]
Hawk just posted update 11 along with renders of more PHR cruisers, the biggest points are:
>PHR are heavily focused on cruisers
>their cruisers have 5 weapon hardpoints; 1 prow, and 4 broadside (2 starboard, 2 port)
>prow weapon mounts are, thus far, a fixed mount beam and a tri-barreled cannon turret.
>broadside mounts come in 4 flavors; light, medium and heavy cannons, as well as a hanger
>respectively, these shoot more to less shots, and do less to more damage, with a less to more chance of critting
>assuming a symmetrical ship and no prow weapons, this gives us a total of 16 possible PHR cruiser variations
![63241320519fa9a4303609aa005b8d6a_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lcH4WHU.jpg "63241320519fa9a4303609aa005b8d6a_original[1].jpg")
>Ajax class cruiser
>mounting a prow beam, and full light broadsides
![d3febb309324933568c7f4cfe99f1e07_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/woxty2S.jpg "d3febb309324933568c7f4cfe99f1e07_original[1].jpg")
>Icarus class cruiser
>mounting a prow cannon, foward light broadsides, and aft hangars
![49e321e9336c25f7a46a4e8b2b45f318_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NDHLXBV.jpg "49e321e9336c25f7a46a4e8b2b45f318_original[1].jpg")
>Orion class cruiser
>mounting a prow cannon, and full medium broadsides
![f8fef81dffc4ec5a221d35b91a906d63_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0Cl3RFd.jpg "f8fef81dffc4ec5a221d35b91a906d63_original[1].jpg")
>Perseus class cruiser
>mounting a prow cannon, forward light broadsides, and aft heavy broadsides
>PHR are just as terrifying in orbit as they are on the ground
>>43592724
>>43592710
>>43592690
>>43592663
Looks like the same ship from different angles desu senpai
![85288a2a56449f163dc8f97634033801_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/M0Uvyl4.jpg "85288a2a56449f163dc8f97634033801_original[1].jpg")
>>43592826
Did you even look at the loadouts? All the ships of the same class are the "same" for each faction, what differs is the weapon loadouts.
Really digging the PHR aesthetic, but I am honor-bound to represent my Scourge brethren. Especially if they are going to really do something neat with the supposed campaign-style tie-in with Dropzone.
Although PHR would be a lot easier to paint to a half-decent tabletop quality.
![ship9[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QHlqOyq.jpg "ship9[1].jpg")
>>43592873
>Especially if they are going to really do something neat with the supposed campaign-style tie-in with Dropzone.
Anon, a UCM strike carrier contains an entire military campaign's worth of units.
>DFC is 1:15000 scale
>Strike carrier is 62 mm
>that's 2.44 inches
>which is 36600 inches IRL
>which is 3050 feet
>which is .58 miles
![Salute_Hawk_Wargames_4[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZwQonz9.jpg "Salute_Hawk_Wargames_4[1].jpg")
>>43592992
>that's 100 hangers
>each with at least one, likely two, medium dropships
>>43592992
>>43593012
Yeah, the scale is large enough to theoretically result in neat campaign stuff, but it all comes down to the rules and scenarios on offer.
I could see doing neat things, like having victories/defeats in Dropfleet influencing certain defnsive scenarios on the ground, a victor being able to bring certain support units to the next battle, or a defeated fleet limiting what that player can bring in their next ground-based game.
Something along those lines would be pretty neat, if they can find a way to balance it.
>>43593392
Yeah, definitely. Hawk will probably handwave away the discrepancy between actual scale and game size the same way geedubs does, in that it's a smaller battle within a larger conflict going on.
>>43592626
Yeeah, the PHR aren't doing anything for me. Esp. the big railguns, literally just lifted from the ground mechs and slapped on ship hulls by upscaling.
>>43593511
As opposed to the UCM railguns?
>>43592992
Yea but you could make up some sweet rules for this. For example:
Make Solar System Map with X planets. Make planet maps with Y sectors. Defend controls X planets with set forces. Attack assaults planet. Defender and not how many objectives are taken over. By each faction. Defend gets bonuses and reinforcements for his deployments. Attack gets waves with his that make it down. Surviving ships count of orbital bombardments. Play several DZC games to represent planet take over of each sector. Continue playing DFC after planetfall to compete for control of skies and bombardments. As well as bonus reinforcements.
You could also do a 2 v 2 game with one player controlling space and the other controlling the ground for each faction. Games interact with ground defense and bombardments. Also hot drops of fresh troops.
>>43593392
Yea I concur! This is what has me most excited.
>>43592873
The Campaign tie in is going to be Scourge Genocide you filthy alien lover :P
>>43593553
Actually yes. The ship railguns are ever so slightly different to the ones on the Sabre or Gladius, while the ones on PHR are straight up the same thing. Along with those optics pods on ends. Which make sense on land units i suppose, but none on a ship.
>>43594321
>but none on a ship.
Redundant sensors and telemetry?
>>43594351
Sigh...we can play this shit all night, you listing one thing, me listing why it's silly to me. Point is, I think they look dumb as all fuck and don't like them. That's it. You are of course free to disagree..I'm not funding the KS, so i have absolutely no stakes in it.
>>43594375
actually the ship born railguns are basically just scaled up versions of the ground railguns for the UCM as well, see this thing: pic related
>>43594755
Are there any pictures of that model?
>>43595376
Here it is painted pretty much same view
>>43592856
You know I didn't care much for the UCM ships at first, but the more I look at them the more interested I get. I'd love to see the rules and how the ships interact.
I know it's probably not feasible in-universe, but I'd love to see a Resistance fleet, especially if they had that lovely ramshackle look of the ground vehicles.
Basically I just want Firefly Reaver ships.
>>43592816
>Get a cruiser to fly between a pair of enemy ships
>Go weapons free
>Loose the broadsides, yar har har
I think I'm definitely going to run PHR, although I'm still interested in UCM.
>>43595543
so far what we know rules wise is this:
Each ship has a speed in inches, they have to move a certain amount of this speed each turn, and can make limited turns. There are special orders that allow them to hold station.
Each ship has a scan value and a signature, all shooting ranges are measured by adding up the ships scan value, the targets signature and any signal spikes the target may have to determine max range.
All shooting is done based on a the accuracy of the weapon with no "to wound roll" you just roll to hit, a roll which exceeds the target value by 2 is a critical hit. Your opponent can then take armor saves against all non critical hits based on his ships armor, it is unknown how shields may play into this
Most weapons roll an number of specified shots, the exceptions are burn through lasers which may roll to hit repeatedly until they miss, and any critical hit makes all subsequent rolls critical, but they have narrow fire arcs.
The other exception is close action weapons, these can only fire at targets in your scan range, and have a variable number of shots which you roll to determine. They roll to hit as normal but your opponent gets point defense rolls to negate some hits, 1 point defense success negates one regular close action shot, two point defense success are needed for a critical, armor saves work the same as before
There will be fighters and bombers, fighters will add to point defense values of a ship they are protecting, and bombers will possibly behave like a close action weapon attack. Torpedoes are also confirmed, they are huge and designed to kill large capital ships, very dangerous.
Game will have alternative activations, you sort your ships into battlegroups, and then at the beginning of each turn you order your battlegroups using cards, you and your opponent then draw a card and the battlegroup with the lowest command value goes first, ties roll off.
>>43595945
Additionally the game will feature 3 orbital layers, high orbit, low orbit, and atmosphere, atmosphere will function as "underwater" for certain small ships, large ships will not be able to enter it, and there are stiff penalties for firing between orbital layers.
The main objectives of the game will be to land and deploy large troop formations to the surface of the board (a portion of planet surface) for the purposes of taking and holding strategic sectors, mainly cities
There are of course orbital bombardment ships, and you can nuke sites from orbit because its the only way to be sure.
Finally ships have a number of hitpoints anywhere from 4-16 depending on size, once below half they are crippled and have to roll on a cripple table, which can cause a variety of effects from engine failure to catastrophic reactor overloads.
Also there are orders you can give ships which allow them to perform different actions, hold station, move faster, turn faster, fire all weapons etc. These however come with penalties such as major and minor sensor spikes which add to the range you can be shot at. so ordering your ships to fire all guns may cause you to enter into range of ships you werent originally and get shot up. Adds a level of tactical choice.
>>43596054
>>43595945
Huh, all right, thanks for all the info. Can really feel Andy Chambers' hands in this, which I'm okay with.
>>43592873
Other than the ryuji and shenlong, I'm not seeing very much in the way of obvious weapons systems on the Scourge ships, at least compared to the other factions.
Anyone have word on what their game is?
>>43596751
*raiju
>>43596751
I'm going to go ahead and throw some bullshit out; Scourge cruisers look like they have 4 hardpoints; Prow, ventral prow, dorsal prow, and aft wings.
Ifrit has a heavy beam prow.
Wyvern has a cannon(?) prow
Hydra has a blank/armor prow and hangar wings
Shelong has multi-beam prow and multi-beam dorsal prow.
Strix has a cannon(?) prow and no wings
Chimera has a ventral prow hangar and armor prow
Yokai has a multi-beam prow and no wings
Raiju has a heavy beam prow and a multi-beam dorsal prow
Sphinx has a multi-beam prow
So, the general formula seems to be:
Cruiser = prow weapon
Light cruiser = prow weapon and no wings
Heavy cruiser = prow weapon and dorsal prow weapon
Fleet carrier = hangar wings
Mothership = ventral prow hangar
>>43595465
WOW that's cool looking! Thanks!
Nice paint job as well.
>>43597346
Oh i didnt paint that, thats an offical paint job
>>43597346
Pretty sure that's a studio scheme, which I am also farily certain is done by the game's creator. Dave is nuts.
He holed himself up and spent I think around 1000 hours making the scale display ship in
>>43592992
and
>>43593012
complete with painted minis from DZC, lighting effects, and a massive scale interior map of the ship's innards.
He puts in some work on this stuff.
>>43597757
>>43597970
I see. I just started DZC.
Do you know what colors the studio uses?
>>43598114
Yep. The starter sets list recommended paints for the faction you bought.
UCM is as follows:
>Basecoat:
Army Green (color primer via Army Painter)
OR
Russian Green (Model Air by Vallejo) over Tamiya Fine White Surface Primer.
>Detail:
Chrome, Russian Green (Model Air by Vallejo)
Black, Bloody Red, Electric Blue, Cadmium Skin, Camouflage Green (Game Color by Vallejo)
>Shades//Washes/Inks:
Black Shade, Umber Shade (washes by Vallejo)
It might not be a 100% match, but it is what they list as recommended. Hope it helps!
>>43598299
It does very much! I bought all my stuff used because the deal was too great to pass up. I googled the color scheme, but didn't see anything.
![0b3225e5a9ab9621ebf17d41f3a64842[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/76Ohm9h.jpg "0b3225e5a9ab9621ebf17d41f3a64842[1].jpg")
>>43598299
>that gunship
>>43599416
makes an awesome command vehicle
>>43599416
I has a ton of Dakka that it can lay down across the table.
>>43592873
I'm not awfully sold on Scourge's space aesthetics in general. Their heavies look okay but their smaller stuff is just... random lumps of crap with no obvious concessions to function.
>>43601306
I think that's the point, they're an advanced alien species, utterly inhuman in thought, and there designs are obscure. The only parts that make sense are the ones that are made for killings.
>>43601306
Well remember that the smaller ships are likely only going to house one scourge parasite, as its body. It persumably won't need hatches, doors, ports, lights, or much of anything. Just a vat of blacl nutrient tar, and some sort of permenant interface between the scourge and the systems.
The heavy ships need more space for hangars, troop generation areas, resource storage, and space able to be used by their current host species.
>>43601353
>>43601441
Yeah but like they don't even have identifiable guns. Or engines.
>>43601953
>guns
The "eyes" and/or various holes
>engines
Xenos heresy.
So, we know what the UCM frigates, cruisers (and battlecruiser) and battleship looks like; do you think there'll be destroyers, or ships bigger than the battleships? A proper super-carrier would be cool.
>>43602091
Well if the battleship they're showing on the KS page is just over 11", a super carrier would be absolutely enormous (and costly, knowing the Dropzone folks). I'd love to see it, of course, but not the price tag.
>>43602175
Actually, the battleship they're showing is a 2-up collectors model, the real unit is only 142 mm long; iirc, they said no actual game piece would be more than 200 or so mm
>>43602259
Oh. I stand corrected then. That also saves me from adding one to my KS order.
>>43601953
The scourge have engines you can see here on this frigate, the reason you cant see them on the cruisers is that none of the viewpoints offered show them, the fins obscure them
>>43602290
It looks damn fine though. Would look great as a display piece, and hell, maybe you could even use it as a kind of special coop game or something. I once played a mech warrior game that went like that. The guy in charge said we had a time limit before he would enter the game and deploy his collectible tri-pods on the field and start pushing our shit in.
>Okay guys, you have x number of rounds to secure this jump node before the S.S.GiggaNigga, a, uh, experimental super-duper dreadnought enters the system and starts giving you all new assholes.
Or something like that. Sure it's not official, but it would be fun.
>>43602091
No. Fuck no. As a FA player, fuck big ships. Tactically, they're literally just battleships with bigger HP pool, and they slow the game down to a crawl. They did in FT, they do in FA, I have no doubt Chambers will not diverge enough to make it not the case here.
>>43604772
When the smallest drop carrier is hug in a game aiming towards realism, bigger ships would become stupid big.
>>43602445
What about the guns? I was a little confused too as to the differences between the models.
>>43592663
>>43592690
>>43592710
>>43592724
God damn the PHR are sexy.
Now that we've seen this, two friends and I are going to make the Commodore pledge. We want dat Atlantis/dem exclusive other faction battlecruisers.
>>43592626
Gotta say, I'm a lot more hyped for this than I was for Dropzone.
Whoever designed these ships knew what they were doing.
fuck everything
I JUST WANT THOSE DAMN MODULAR SPACE STATIONS!
>>43604772
As far as is known the largest ship size will be Dreadnoughts, and if you are taking a DN or even a Battleship, you are taking fewer of another kind of ship at that level, Given the crippling system Battleships may easily be put out of action, they also have an inherent flaw that other ships dont they have much larger signatures than other ship sizes, which means they can be fired upon from much further away whilst not quite being able to return fire so there are tactical considerations to taking a HUGE ship
>>43605086
see
>>43596968
We havent got a whole of info on the types of weapons the scourge have, if DZC is anything to go by they will be comparatively short ranged and very potent mostly plasma based
Looks like the little red eye things are some kind of plasma battery system hits hard, the little white triangles on the front of some of the ships are some sort of missile based close action weapon. The black triangles on the fins in the back are launch bays. A couple have burn through lasers which are the bronze colored conical protrusions on the front of some cruisers, thats about all that is known/speculated
>>43604772
Actually, from what we've seen, big, heavy ships shouldn't be too bad. They're likely to have absolutely massive signatures (cruisers have a signature of 6", frigates have 3", I fully expect dreadnoughts to be 12"), which means that a battleship which just loosed all it's weapons (+6" spike) is going to visible to everything within 24" (which is half the board). Further more, you only need to damage a ship to half before shit starts getting fucked up; it's very well possible that the massive super-doomnaught will have its scanners or enginer knocked out the second it goes critical, and then have its primary reactor explode when a frigate plinks it.
>>43608568
My issue isn't that they're invincible, just that they soak up so much damage that you end up with two big zombie ships with jack-all weapons left but still enough HP to not die easily. Resulting in a long, frustrating match or a draw. Unless the game will have very swingy, easy-to-explode mechanics.
>>43608805
Ah, but that's the thing, most games aren't going to based around the "annihilation" style of game objective; they'll be focussed on taking and holding ground objectives through troop deployments.
A giant dreadnought is as good as a dead one if it can't kill the three remaining strike cruisers which are fortifying the planet.
>>43608805
yeah as >>43608856 mentions the main objective of most matches will consist of deploying troops to the planet surface at strategic locations, there may be other orbital sub objectives, but a dreadnought or other huge ship will only be effective if it can help you accomplish those, the main goal will rarely ever be total annihilation of your opponent, The same goes for DZC
>>43609029
Thats one of the things I love abut hawk wargames.
>>43592626
Still think the UCM look silly with all those turrets errywhere, but I backed to Commodore level because damn but that's a lot of ships and Andy Chambers dude.
http://strawpoll.me/5990020/r
Just out of curiosity, I want to see how deep this thread is in the kickstarter.
Update #12
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hawkwargames/dropfleet-commander/posts/1413081
>Bolt-on's updated, possibly more terrain soon
>Scourge confirmed to have engines
>PHR painted soon
>>43611150
Nice.
So, have the said anything in regards to when we can actually expect the rules and models to be going out to people? Apparently the beta rules won't be going out until the new year, so I'm assuming the actual rules won't be with us until February or March?
>>43611412
Yeah; they said that the game itself wouldn't ship until June, although I do hope they get it out sooner.
>>43611412
June of next year is the estimated date but most kickstarters deliver late so I'm expecting it by the end of next year.
>>43611743
Nah, the Kickstart is literally just for them to manufacture the plastic molds. I think they'll get it out on time.
>>43608372
Historically, the red eyes are just that - eyes that allow the pilot to survey its surrounding external environment.
>>43611743
they are absolutely committed to be on time and they have a number of things in their favor:
They've done plastic kits before (DZC) so they know how much time it takes
They're making it in England so no Chinese mucking about
They have planned this ahead of time fairly thoroughly
So maybe not exactly on specified June date, but definitely in that month, maybe July at the latest
>>43611945
Also, they aren't adding in a bunch of extra bullshit for backers. Mostly just the faction kits, play mats, and a few small faction emblems.
So that's a significantly lowered chance of delays or running out of money.
>>43612125
That's a good point, along with the bolt-on options giving them a secondary source of money by milking the people who do pledge.
Speaking of which, who here is planning on getting bolt-ons before the end of it, and are you waiting until it's almost over? Personally, I plan on picking up the map packs and maybe the stations before the end of things, and if other people are planning the same they will end up with a huge increase in donations just before the end of things.
>>43612294
I'm going with the commodore pledge, the collectors edition battleship, and probably the station and maps.
>>43611855
I'm betting the ones with extra eyes like the Yokai have better sensor ratings.
>>43612596
You know, I wouldn't be surprised. Since the Scourge are supposed to have really powerful, close range weapons, having ones with a 6" sensor rather than 3" (or whatever) could be absolutely devastating.
I wonder if, say, the UCM will get other module besides weapons/armor? It'd be nice to have a sensor array to stick on.
>>43611945
I would love to get them on time or even early but I'm still setting my expectations towards a delay,
that way I wont be disappointed if its late and will be very happy if its on time.
>>43612294
I'm probably going to add the exclusive scourge cruiser once those are added.
>>43612628
That would be neat, or maybe ecm modules/frigates that would do the opposite and hamper a target's sensors.
Honestly I'd really like some options for fucking with the enemy without causing damage. Shorting out engines to slow them down or jamming sensors and targeting, things like that would add a lot to the game I think, especially with the objective based gameplay.
>>43612676
What pledge are you at? You can get one of each battlecruiser for "free" with the Commodore tier (or, three of your choice and the mandatory UCM BC)
>>43592873
I have mixed feelings about the Scourge in Dropzone, but their ships are so sexy I sort of want to rub myself against them.
>>43612759
I'm splitting a commander with a friend.
>>43612783
My first reaction was that they looked random and mismatched, but they've really been growing on me lately.
I still don't really like the frigates all that much though, and the UCM look way better all round, but still, they look better then the Shaltari hula-hoops of death.
>>43612905
we need to wait to see the painted versions, I think then we can make a better judgement, although I agree they look odd
>>43612759
I want that exclusive so captain for me. I am trying to get some friends to split the whole thing with me.
Really wanna pledge, but I think I'm gonna hold out to see what the Resistance ships look like.
>>43617829
I want them to almost be usable as ork kroozers
![823c50ffab[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/P5Y4246.png "823c50ffab[1].png")
>>43617829
>>43617847
>Resistance ships
Anon, I...
>>43617898
Huh, I was looking on the page and it mentioned Resistance by name. Wonder if it's a mistype then.
Too bad, I wanted human killkroozers.
I'm rewatching the second BoW video, and Dave mentions "Corvette style ships" at around the 13:20 mark.
Do you think we'll be getting stuff beyond Frigate/Cruiser/Battleship/Dreadnoughts? Corvettes and destroyers would be nice, and would definitely fill the gap between launch assets and frigates, and frigates and cruisers, as battlecruisers fill the gap between cruisers and battleships.
>>43592626
PHR are my faction in dropzone commander
>in StarFleet Battles i played Klingon cruiser, heavily
>In BFG i ran 2 starter boxes worth of Chaos Cruisers
>in Noble Armada i leaned upon Hazat Canai-class as by backbone...
>in Firestorm Armada, my Sorylian Cruisers would stream broadside chains through enemy formations...
>PHR are heavily focused on cruisers
this is not just news to me...
This is a sign....a portent of my destiny
>>43618050
Broadside cruisers, at that.
Embrace your destiny, anon. Become the post-human with a forearm-integrated saber who calls out "Weapons free! Give them a broadside!" in a pitch perfect, modulated voice.
>>43618001
I don't think we will be getting anything smaller then the frigates we've seen, which are already quite tiny. I think by corvette he means fast and light ships capable of moving in and out of fire range with very potent close action capabilities. Maybe something like a flak ship that can roll point defense for other ships to defend a fleet, or launch stupid large amounts of close action attacks.
>>43618199
The frigates are only 70 or so mm, It's not a stretch to imagine them making a 35 to 50 mm ship with, like, one hardpoint.
>>43617934
The Resistance have to live like termite people to limit detection and eradication by the Scourge. Their most amazing tech is a tank from centuries ago with some rusty plate bolted on, and a gifted PHR force field duct taped on the side.
Sad as it may be to not have them as a Dropfleet faction, from a lore standpoint I cannot argue with it.
>>43595465
Man, as much as I like some parts of the UCM, some of the designs for special units just aren't as good as the others.
>>43598299
Case in point.
>>43595465
>literally two tanks stapled together, instead of one primary chassis
>It doesn't even have the benefit of being able to turn side to side in the middle
Forwhatpurpose.png
>>43618825
Oh, I agree with you, it wouldn't make much sense for them to have ships of any kind, let alone a fleet. But a man's gotta have a dream, right? I'm always drawn to ramshackle armies like that.
>>43618942
To fit in the standardized medium transport that the UCM build. They like to cut costs wherever so making a new super heavy tank prototype that couldn't be orbitally dropped by the same transport they already use is unacceptable. hence it has a weird design
>>43619080
But what's wrong with having one really long chassis that can still fit?
>>43619089
It might have more to do with the fact that it seems like almost everything in the UCM is standardized to make repairs easier, even the treads. Their Ferrum Drone bases use the same treads too.
Might be a bit of lore behind it as well, where trying to sell the design to the bureau was proving a nightmare, so they downgraded some parts of the design to make it more affordable in terms of battlefield repairs. If you compare it to their medium tank designs, it even looks like they've literally took a small tank and a large tank, hooked them together, and removed one of the cannons to let the power generators pump energy into the main weapon.
>>43619158
Yeah, not that I look at it it definite seems to be a modified Sabre chassis in the back, with a shortened Katana in the front.
So, I'm looking at DZC, and I can't decide who I like more; UCM, PHR, or Shaltari.
On one hand, the UCM look to be very fun and simple, but the PHR look awesome (especially the Hades), and the Shaltari walkers and flyers are hitting me in all the right places.
What are the general styles of play between the three?
>>43619418
UCM are very jack of all trades, their big vehicles are pretty reliably tough and can do some cool things (like that gunship posted earlier in thread and the Ferrum drone base). You can play them with a focus on light units with their katana tanks, get heavier tanks, go with some artillery, or pack plenty of infantry like their new hazard suits.
PHR are hard hitting, but slow generally. Walkers slowly marching down the board and castling up a lot. Have skimmers that can be very quick, and recently got jet pack infantry which shored up their major weakness.
Shaltari are tricksy, with deceptive durability in their hard to hit skimmers that all pack invuln saves. Their walkers are stronger, and if you want you can build an all walker list with their smaller walker units acting as your bread and butter. The main thing about Shaltari is that instead of having assigned transports they have teleporter gates that fly in and drop things, which can then be used as relays to move units about. have a backline tank unit that needs to be up front? have them hop into the gate that dropped them and then unload from a gate at the front of the area.
>>43619685
Sounds good; I honestly can't decide between the PHR and the Shaltari; The Hades is and all their walkers are sexy, but I can't pass up those Shaltari tripods either.
>>43619756
it's a tough one. I really wish we had a second starter set with the PHR and Shaltari going at it. would save a lot of trouble.
I will say I eventually chose Shaltari, and they've been a heck of a lot of fun to build. Don't have them painted quite yet, which I should really get on...
>>43619804
Man, it's just on one hand there's the hades, and on the the other there's the Shaltari as a whole.
Maybe I'll just go Shaltari, and get the Hades just as a showpieceat least until I branch out into the PHR in earnest
>>43619817
Not a bad way to do it at all. Heck, you could always make the PHR that faction you try and paint really well, buy them much more slowly and try to get a really good paintjob. The whole nine yards of paint, plus magnetizing everything you can to make them poseable. I know one guy magnetized all the Hades legs and magnetized it to hook up to the big dropship. Looked really cool.
>>43619829
>The whole nine yards of paint, plus magnetizing everything you can to make them poseable. I know one guy magnetized all the Hades legs and magnetized it to hook up to the big dropship. Looked really cool.
Personally, I think NOT doing that for every model when applicable would just be a disservice to them; they're way too good looking to not warrant such measures.
I really want to mix this game with DZC land battles, but I'm finding the scale of DZC dubious. The rules and official terrain and stuff look absolutely amazing, I'm just... kind of wary of the idea of spending that much money on such small models. I thought they were a little bigger (FoW sorta scale) until I saw the size comparison with various coins.
That said, I'm full on with Dropfleet, pledging commodore with three other friends.
Are the DZC rules really awesome enough to merit spending so much money on such small models?
>>43623200
Here is my super shill pitch so take it as rather biased.
I would say yes the rules are very solid, the game plays fairly quickly when you and your opponent have the rules down solid. There are alot of army composition options at the standard play level (1500 points). Most games come down to the last couple of turns. The game is VERY objective based and ignoring those in favor of just blazing away will usually lose you the game even if you have seriously crippled your opponent. Generally the alternative activations of battlegroups combined with the focus on objectives means you end up have alot of tactical decisions to make during the turn, do I want to do this now, or wait and so forth. This allows alot opportunity to play your opponent rather than his army, IE try to guess what hes thinking and out maneuver him.
Second part of rant is, yes given the size of the miniatures on a per miniature basis they are super expensive. I however dont think you should look at the cost per unit, rather the cost for an army. You can play a system where the miniatures are very cheap, but if you need alot of them to play it ends up being six of one half a dozen of the other. That said for a 1500 point army, DZC will run you around 300$ buying at full retail prices. If you can find some for the cheap used, or so forth, or happen on some sales and deals this can go down. I dont know exact numbers for other systems but I know a standard sized 40k army wont cost anywhere near 300$, I think FOW is also more expensive for the army, and Warmachine might be comparable. Infinity is probably the only game Id say is definitely cheaper per army but that is a skirmish game and to be expected.
>>43623200
Having just picked up some models myself, I am actually surprised by how much bigger they are than I thought.
All things considered it really isn't that expensive. You can get a standard 1500 point army for around 200ish. That is not that bad compaired to some other games.
>>43623534
Warmachine and FOW actually way cheaper, generally. Not per miniature, but, a 2000pt spess elves army will generally be cheaper than a 50pt steampunk elves army.
>>43623613
>Not per miniature, but, a 2000pt spess elves army will generally be cheaper than a 50pt steampunk elves army.
Sorry, that should be the other way round.
This is mostly because 40K favours lots of vehicles, by the by, and those are expensive.
>>43623638
I dont know what a standard tournament size is for warmachine so I cant really make a good comparison, I do know for 40k its 1850, and you cannot get 1850 points of any army for 300$ even if you have no vehicles, unless you go full ebay/garage sale
>>43623685
Most Warmahordes tournaments are at 50pts, but that's a really big army (comparatively), more comparable to 2000pts of 40K. The most expensive Warmahordes lists are infantryspam, which will generally mean three 10-12 man units, an obligatory warjack/warbeast, a warcaster, and probably some solos. Generally that will come to somewhere in the area of £200.
Hordes armies are much cheaper than Warmachine armies because the mechanics make it more useful for them to have a larger amount of warbeasts, which are cheaper than infantry. A faction that runs 90% warbeasts/warjacks, like Convergence or Legion, can be ludicrously cheap even at 50pts.
>>43623200
The models seem small but as someone who has worked with them a bit they're perfectly serviceable. And the rules are pretty solid. That said, maybe just buy something smaller and try painting it? you might enjoy it more if you can look at a small amount and look at it in person.
>>43623826
so basically its comparable to DZC in terms of cost for a standard army size. Basically DZC taking models needed for an army is fairly competitive with other gaming systems. What I think is the real problem (if your not in the UK) is the lack of players just about anywhere (mostly a US problem I feel) So while its not too crazy to buy an army money wise compared to other wargames, you are going to have an issue finding people to play with. This is unfortunate as the game is solid
![987edcab05ed05cba7a62768820714a3_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/u71M20m.jpg "987edcab05ed05cba7a62768820714a3_original[1].jpg")
UPDATE 13: PHR HEAVY AND LIGHT CRUISERS.
>Achilles class heavy cruiser, mounting full heavy broadsides, and what looks to be a single prow torpedo.
![c9b26b7c99f323e789e35bbed87c6615_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gr6bXcB.jpg "c9b26b7c99f323e789e35bbed87c6615_original[1].jpg")
>>43625411
>Bellerophon class heavy carrier, mounting full hangar bays and two prow beams.
>Heavy cruisers ventral armor looks to be sliding, allowing one or two prow weapons to be mounted, as can be seen here and in the Achilles.
![19c481927a5a6ec6aa376b569879c590_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7KGX6rf.jpg "19c481927a5a6ec6aa376b569879c590_original[1].jpg")
>>43625435
>Hector class heavy cruiser, mounting full medium broadsides and two prow beams
![1db12f6d66289a029a5e11a335dbcb4f_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/akTxtrg.jpg "1db12f6d66289a029a5e11a335dbcb4f_original[1].jpg")
>>43625457
>Orpheus class troopship, mounting full light broadsides and a single prow beam
>upon close inspection, the heavy cruiser ventral plating seems to come in two parts; a spine mounted directly to the main hull, and a forward part. As of now, this forward part is either a weapon hardpoint (which can be position to allow for one or two prow weapons), or a troop module.
![c3d781b1b717fec7d55338b10a19ffc2_original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lONSPeD.jpg "c3d781b1b717fec7d55338b10a19ffc2_original[1].jpg")
>>43625503
>Thesus class light cruiser, mounting full light broadsides
>unlike the normal and heavy cruiser ventral plating, the light cruiser has no weapon hardpoints.
>>43625435
This one is my favorite of the PHR. Its cool you can see the little hanger bays.
>>43625411
>>43625435
>>43625457
>>43625503
>>43625529
I'm in love.
The Hector in particular looks like an absolute boss. I can't wait to build and name these.
>>43626280
I like their theme of greek heroes for ship names. Any guesses on what the battleships and frigates will be named?
>>43626314
Frigates may be lesser heroes like Patroclus, Machaon, Sarpedon, Paris, etc.
I'd be surprised if their battlecruiser wasn't the Herakles or Diomedes. Maybe Agamemnon for their first battleship? Kinda surprised they went with Achilles for a heavy cruiser, I'd have put him as a battlecruiser or battleship.
>>43626314
Well, they haven't done Odysseus yet.
There are an insane number of Greek heroes to choose from. I'm actually surprised they've spent Achilles and Bellerophon as heavy cruisers. Those are serious big boys of Greek myth, worthy of battlecruiser status you'd think.
>>43626280
>Fleet of light cruisers charge in to weapons free broadsides in the fray of battle while heavy cruiser fleet carriers cover them via long range burn-throughs as they drop their troops.
Can't fucking wait.
>>43625411
>dat monster slugger on the front
Is this the first torpedo we've actually seen?
It's fucking huge, holy shit.
>>43625503
Holy fuck, the PHR troopship looks more well-armed than some of the UCM cruisers.
Looks like I will once again be playing the forever outnumbered faction.
>>43626535
Well the torpedoes have their own minis, and are described as "building sized" so I'd imagine when a ship had one equipped you'd know.
I just wish we had race specific models for them. It would be really cool if we had like a giant fleshy crap shell spike for the Scourge for example, same with the fighters and bombers. They said they didn't think it would be worth it, but I'd buy that shit up in a heartbeat.
>>43626614
DESU, I generally prefer to minimize fighter/bomber presence in these games (I just find that they can often clutter things. It's good that the PHR seem to be focused on BIG SHIPS), so I'm ambivalent to the idea.
It'd be a cool aesthetic touch, but there are probably quite a few people like me that don't intend on using many strike craft either way, so I get their decision.
>>43626750
So far it sounds like strike craft will essentially just offer buffs or status effects, or act in tandem with the launching ship. At least from what I've read so far it seems like fighters will just float near ships and give them additional point defense rolls, and bombers will probably act like long range close action weapons. I'd guess that torps would act similarly.
>>43626454
Who knows, might have a different naming scheme for big battleships. After all, the only battleship for the UCM we've seen is named after a mythical city, maybe we'll have someone that even in all the greek legends is just ridiculous. Or they might start tapping into other cultures heroes. Really hard to say.
>>43627427
Actually, the Atlantis is a battlecruiser; the UCM battleship is named the Beijing class.
>>43627427
UCM battleship is the Beijing thats a real city
>>43626855
fighters are confirmed so far to give additional point defense
>>43627560
Well these are just classification names, do we know what the actual ships are named themselves? Or is there no pre-set naming system for the ships themselves? I figure I could give my PHR ships some snippy Culture-ish names like "Continuation of Politics" or "A friendly rebuttal" or "Balanced Arbitration" for a heavy broadside light cruiser and the like.
>>43627665
I think they might be UCM classifications, but it's possible that the PHR actually named their stuff as its shown.
>>43626314
>Any guesses on what the battleships will be named?
Typhon.
TYPHON.
T Y P H O N.
>>43627864
>implying Typhon won't be their super dreadnought.
Would love to get involved with this, but don't know anyone who plays in the Minneapolis/St Paul area, or have the time to start new models, still working through Kingdom Death
>>43625529
Huh, I'm getting a slight Covenant vibe from the PHR ships. All those smooth edges are throwing me off. I like them though.
>>43625529
>full light broadsides
Shit, I just noticed it was fore light and aft medium.
>>43630118
>>43630006
I am interested in seeing their battlecruiser/frigates
>>43631719
It's likely that they'll get few frigates, as they're apparently the 'cruiser faction'.
Their stater set may even be four cruisers and no frigates, if what we've heard about them is correct.
>>43629091
I'm in the Twin Cities as well and getting pretty hyped about this.
>>43631746
Honestly, I kinda doubt that, since frigates still have uses beyond just combat. Since they are cruiser heavy, the frigates could be support focused, so ships that help the cruisers but can't do much on their own.
Have they said what those game mats are made out of? Because they look so sweet, would way rather play over something like that than deep space.
Also, any hints dropped on the Shaltari playstyle?
>>43632123
stand off, and sneaky. They tend to stay away and snipe I believe I heard, with lower signatures. Can raise shields for enhanced durability, few turreted weapons as well
>>43632123
they have weird floating circular platforms that I assume are either frigates dropping infantry by teleporting them in or carrier like vessels. Not really clear on what they actually do.
>>43632123
I recall reading that the maps were like cardstock or something. Someone was asking about the neoprene stuff frontline games uses on the comments section and they said it would be to expensive to ship.
>>43632123
All I remember is that they have shields, but turning them on lights them up on enemy radar like a christmas tree.
>Figures come unpainted
Fucking worthless.
>>43634262
>being a pleb
>>43634262
You do realize how easy it is to paint things at this scale with minimal effort and simple techniques, and still have it look good on the table, right?
>>43634271
>>43634307
I have zero interest in painting. I only want the game. When they advertise with fully painted figures in all the photos and the figures dont come painted it feels like a massive case of false advertising.
These sorts of games should come with both painted and unpainted options so people like me who just want to play the fucking game can have our fun and the people who want to paint can have their special snowflake fleets.
>>43634315
The reason the first picture you see of the models is painted is because the paint picks out all the details on the model; it's hard to see shit on unpainted ones.
In any case, if you're truly that lazy, you could probably get away with spraying primer over the lot of them. Maybe a quick wash if you're feeling fancy.
>>43634351
This. Spray a basecoat, dip them, and drybrush a lighter color. Wont take long at all, and it'll eat least look better than an unpainted brick.
>>43634351
Nope I just wont give them my money. I have savings for when a game finally comes along with prepainted models. With the money I was going to spend on this its up to 700 now. I'm going to buy the fuck out of the first game that offers prepainted models and has rules I like.
>>43634390
Hell, I wouldn't even say he needs to drybrush. Basecoat and wash is more than enough to make them look like cheap boardgame pieces, instead of shitty cheap boardgame pieces.
>>43634400
>being this difficult
Are you seriously going to refuse to play good games because you're too lazy to do arts and crafts?
Whatever floats your boat, anon.
>>43634420
Yes. I dont like how this mentality that every game has to come with unpainted models.
If anything it just makes the developers look like money garbing lazy good for nothings. Cut costs by not painting them and then call it a feature.
I'm not even looking for anything amazing. DnD figure quality would be acceptable.
>>43634444
>Yes. I dont like how this mentality that every game has to come with unpainted models.
Because, for the most part, 95% of the people autistic enough to play wargames are autistic enough to paint them.
>money grubbing
Making them out of colored plastic would be ludicrously inefficient and expensive, and automated painting (or getting chinks to do it) makes it look like shit.
Unpainted with the consume having a modicum of talent is the best.
Sorry anon, but you aren't part of wargaming's audience.
>>43634400
Have fun waiting. The only game like that was Heroscape, and its dead as fuck now
>>43634481
To bad for them. Once that game comes along with prepainted models I'm going to dump thousands into it to get the fleet I want.
>>43634496
>Heroscape
Fuck, I remember that. The Marrow were great fun, and were the reason why I (tried) to get into Tyranids.
>>43634510
It was my first wargame and started my current path. I use almost all my minis for D&D now, but I kept everything
>>43631908
Where you frequent anon? Tower?
>>43634504
We mourn your self-imposed exile from our hobby, dude.
>>43634504
You could pay someone to paint the models for you if you hate it that much.
>>43634537
My first was Mech Warrior. It had painted models too, but the models came in random pack boxes like trading cards.
The game itself was fun, although I was a bit too young to get the full experience out of it and get any good, but there were enough other young shitters my age for me to place in a small local tournament some old guy who essentially ran the community set up, offering a set of giant-ass tripod mechs as the prize. I won a Poseidon out of it and not too long ago I used it as a boss fight for my players.
Honestly, I had a similar reaction at first, and the unpainted and unassembled issue is what made me pick Mech Warrior over 40k at the time, but now, honestly I'm looking forward to learning how to paint them, and the assembly just means there's more room for customization. Mech Warrior models looked like shit, with shitty chink paint jobs and mishapen legs and twisted limbs that looked like a downy T-rex, (apart from the giant-ass tripod) so I'd say the trade off is worth it.
>>43634315
People like you are not welcome, simple as that. Go boot up Star Citizen or something.
>>43634444
>I'm not even looking for anything amazing. DnD figure quality would be acceptable.
Jesus, are you retarded or something? D&D models look terrible. Unpainted models are better than that level of shit.
>>43627736
I doubt it.
Considering how much the UCM hate the PHR, it seems unlikely that they'd name their stuff after heroes and gods.
>>43634504
Literally never going to happen.
The methods of mass-painting on the scale necessary to run a miniatures game invariably end up with the models looking like total dogshit. YOU might buy in, but most wargamers won't. Basically any dedicated miniatures company with sense and/or integrity will not put out pre-painted minis. Those savings of yours will NEVER see the light of day if you hold on to the vain hope of something like that appearing.
If you're really so assluminous over the idea of painting, just chuck your money at professional painters.
>>43637263
So? NATO had some really cool names for Soviet stuff back in the cold war.
Maybe they just decided to go for a greek theme with their naming scheme for them and stuck with it.
I mean, the Scourge names are definitely UCM codenames, as is the Shaltari, so I don't see why the PHR would be any different.
>>43637594
The PHR and the UCM are both human societies that come from the same original culture. Shaltari and Scourge stuff is obviously codenamed by the UCM as their languages are unknown/unpronounceable to humans, and their cultural items are unrecognizable to us gamers.
This isn't the case with the PHR.
>>43637677
It wasn't the case either with NATO and the USSR, we still did it.
In anycase, it suits the PHR for that. Greek Mythology is basically wall to wall arrogant assholes.
>>43637760
Oh, yeah, sure.
I'm just saying it doesn't seem necessary like it is with the Shaltari and Scourge, from a game standpoint. We can actually 'get' the references that the PHR might make when naming their stuff, as they come from the same background we do, plus a few centuries.
>>43637833
It's not really necessary with Shaltari, since humanity can communicate and hold diplomatic relations. The spaceships in particular are named after gems and minerals, which could just be their naming scheme.
Although, now I recall their ground forces being named "Tomahawk" and "Kukri", so those probably are designations.
>>43637904
It's necessary both in and out of universe with the Shaltari.
In-universe, because Shaltari language literally cannot be spoken or understood by humans. And they take great pains to never reveal anything about their language or culture around humans, too, speaking exclusively in old Earth languages. The fluff book goes over it.
Out-of-universe, it's necessary because we, the players, need cool names for our models, and we wouldn't recognize any cultural references made by an alien species.
>>43637760
>arrogant assholes
Abandonists did nothing wrong.
TIME FOR OUR FIRST LORE FIGHT. EN GARDE.
>>43638093
They almost did nothing wrong. But not quite.
Plus, even if that weren't true, they're definitely arrogant assholes now.
>>43638114
I can't help but like them. No matter how much the narrative is trying to tell me that they've got some sinister shit going, I can't help but just think "but they just kept making the correct choices."
When I look at first contact between the UCM and the PHR I can't help but see the UCM as totally in the wrong, and probably more arrogant.
I dunno if there's any fluff beyond that first book, though.
>>43638093
>>43638114
I'm willing to bet their modern demeanor comes partly from them knowing at least some of what's up with the Scourge.
My theory? The Scourge are cyclical, carving a predetermined path through space, destroying and harvesting any species they find before seeding life in their wake. This explains how they found the Cradle Worlds and jumped there so easily, despite not having the capability to get to the Frontier Colonies without foldspace nodes. They already had nodes hidden on worlds in their predetermined path, which didn't include the inhospitable colonies, as those are less likely to nourish sentient life worthy of possessing. The White Sphere is an artifact of some alien race that was either destroyed by or that is currently in opposition to the Scourge.
>>43638093
While they might have been put in a difficult situation. They fired the first volley and the damage they did ensured the Scourge's victory.
Now they serve only the white mystery ball as slaves. Their arrogance shall be their undoing.
>>43638163
The Proto PHR made some questionable decisions when they managed to steal 10% of humanity and half the fleet. The proto UCM (I guess just the pre UCM human government) doomed themselves when they tried to stop them from leaving and ended up destroying their own fleet.
Hindsight proved the PHR entirely correct and the UCM are mad at them for leaving the sinking ship instead of going down with it.
Modern PHR are basically Eldrad and his space elves level of dickery though. They prop up berserker feral resistance against the UCM and randomly attack UCM ground and space assets. In fluff they never really lose against the UCM although apparently they've ocasionally had some phyric victories against the Shaltari.
Their over arching goal seems to be slowing the UCM liberation, perhaps in the hopes of stopping them from waking the majority of scourge forces to action. The PHR seem to see a threat that the UCM does not
>>43638163
Also the PHR appear to know people are on the cradle worlds still and do not care to help them. In fact, they seem to be actively hindering them.
>>43638603
They wouldn't have fired if there hadn't been a anti-abandonist fleet there to stop them.
And yeah, how awful. They live in a direct democracy where you vote with your brain and all the chicks are smoking hot astrophysicists while the rest of humanity are stuck in movieverse Starship Troopers,
>the only good slug, is a dead slug
>>43638605
The PHR shot first when they left, the shits started. They may be the super smooth robot race but they are definitely a bunch of shits. Show up out of the blue and go hey dont do that invasion youve been planning, UCM asks why, get no answer.. PHR a shit
>>43638700
The fluff says neither side knows who actually shot first
And Hawk already kinda spoiled the next few books, the UCM gets bogged down and eventually starts being driven back.
AKA the PHR was right
>>43638775
The UCM is already bogged down, they took back one of the cradle worlds, but are stuck in a tremendous orbital battle to secure space above another. At this point we dont really know if they will be pushed back, the scourge probably wont do that because they dont have the forces atm, but they are launching all those pod ships out so who knows what thats about
>>43638775
In the rule book is says the first shot were by abolitionist's largest ships.
>>43638603
From the description of Earth's military at the time of the Scourge's coming, it seems like the invaders would have raped the human fleet anyway, and even less humans would've survived.
And to be fair, they wouldn't have shot if the Earth fleet didn't try to stop them. They turned out to be 100% right to leave, and I consider them justified.
>>43638775
Abandonists shot first, confirmed in the first fluffbook.
They were still right to do so, though.
>>43638941
The pod ships are clearly checking nearby systems for signs of life so they can move on to their next host species.
>>43638700
The answer was actually "You're not prepared, you're going to get bogged down in a fight you can't win, take more time to prepare and you can ensure victory."
>>43639381
yeah no it wasnt it was about opening pandoras box and getting involved in a war none of them would see the end of. However they provide no intel as to what this is about or what they mean specifically, no offer of help or joint explanation just hey dont do that attack your going to do, oh we decided to wait until the absolute last minute to let you know, and we arent going to explain why you wont succeed.
Also as soon as the fight starts we are going to randomly go around and covertly blow up your ships and forces and provide weapons and supplies to people so they can purposely hinder you.
>>43639361
How do you know if they hadnt buttblasted half the Earth fleet upon leaving that there would have been any firing at all, or that the ships that god destroyed couldnt have mounted enough of a defense to allow a few more people to escape the cradle worlds. The PHR are a bunch of smug selfish pricks they could have done alot of things differently but instead they act like the Eldar for no fucking reason at all
>>43639497
It should be noted that they didn't really have a chance to do much explaining. The warned the UCM against their invasion, and the immediate response was "Say sorry and admit you were wrong or else we're not even gonna talk to you."
>How do you know if they hadnt buttblasted half the Earth fleet upon leaving that there would have been any firing at all
Loyalist ships were under orders to fire on any ships that started up their foldspace drives. They had told this to the Abandonist fleet and were prepared to shoot them out of the sky.
>or that the ships that god destroyed couldnt have mounted enough of a defense to allow a few more people to escape the cradle worlds.
It's stated in the first fluffbook that Earth's military was totally ill-equipped for the task of countering the Scourge. How do you know that, with the rest of the fleet there, people may have been lower to evacuate, meaning even less survive? We don't. What we know is that the Abandonist were right.
>The PHR are a bunch of smug selfish pricks they could have done alot of things differently but instead they act like the Eldar for no fucking reason at all
There's no reason why they should've done anything differently. They were right to leave, and apparently they were right about the PHR getting bogged down in their attempts to reclaim the Cradle Worlds. They act as though they know what's up because, as far as we can tell, they actually do know what's up.
It makes be proud to see a proper fluff battle going.
We're going to be alright.
>>43639381
They don't quite say that. They say its a risky, ill timed move, and they are inadvertently prepared.
It is weird to think about because we know nothing of their motives. On the one hand, it could be that they were right. Perhaps the PHR simply wanted the scourge to leave their next victims and they view humans as sort of their estranged children that they want to safe guard.
On the other hand it could actually be the best time and the PHR is simply lying. Scourge bodies are dying out and they need new hosts. Their could be at their weakest because they are already searching for a new species and not finding one force. The PHR seems to have ulterior motives and may simply want the UCM to not interfere with what they are doing in the Cradle worlds. The sphere or who ever sent it seems to know everything about the scourge. However, they share nothing. And they seem to be actively opposing UCM efforts. There is a good chance that their advice was not for the UCM or humanity's benefit.
>>43639591
Yeah well they show up literally the day before the invasion kicks off and tell em not to do it, without making contact before hand to try and reconcile for essentially abandoning the fight in the first damn place. They may have been right to leave but they went about it all wrong, and it was still cowardly and backstabbing, and they could have made contact alot sooner than 160 years later on the literal eve of the invasion talk about shitty ulterior motive timing. I doubt they actually wanted to stop the invasion just egg the UCM on to their own destruction because they are a bunch of selfish transhuman pricks
>>43639347
While I don't think they are nessecarily wrong for leaving either, they were taking with them a huge portion of EAA's resources and people. Essentially from the EAA's view a crazy cult is trying to kidnap bunch of people to go to Vega and drink poisoned kool-aid. It wasn't a good situation and by shooting first they get the majority of the blame.
Also they only seem right so far. We don't really know how much they have sacrificed to get to that point.
>>43639660
I'm guessing there's some kind of consequence for pushing back at the Scourge. Like, maybe if a victim species actually hits back hard enough, the Scourge send for help from another swarm, and the PHR don't want that happening. It seems like the Sphere is actually designed to warn species of and fight the Scourge, so maybe it wants to make sure 'mankind' can take out the swarm that has conquered the Cradle Worlds in one decisive stroke.
Or it could be that they were just waiting for them to move on and wanted to take the Cradle Worlds before the UCM realize they're safe. They probably see the UCM as a regression back to mankind's warlike past and don't want them to expand.
>>43639709
Personally I see the blame as falling on the people that were proven wrong. It was a really bad situation, but the Earth government, ultimately, tried to stop the people that turned out correct.
>They may have been right to leave but they went about it all wrong, and it was still cowardly and backstabbing
Not really. It was the only way to go about it. They assembled at Vega, they were told they would be fired on if they tried to leave, they decided fuck that. You're only a coward if you run from odds you can win against. You're prudent if you choose to accent that the right thing to do is retreat. Nobody knew what exactly would happen next, but it turned out that leaving was the right decision.
>>43639709
>While I don't think they are nessecarily wrong for leaving either, they were taking with them a huge portion of EAA's resources and people.
2%, apparently.
That's a vast number of people, but considering that most were civilians, I doubt they'd have made any difference against the Scourge. The Scourge invasion made short work of 98% of humanity in a matter of hours.
I don't see either side as to blame, exactly. The Scourge are the ones that actually caused this situation. The EAA had reason to be wary of this mass migration, and the Abandonists clearly had good reason to leave - good reason to open fire on the EAA fleet, too, considering that any ships trying to jump were gonna get shot. What I think is that the EAA was wrong, simple as. They were incorrect in choosing to stay, and incorrect in trying to stop those that decided to leave. They had reasons to do so, but those reasons were not vindicated by history, whereas the Abandonists were.
Nobody was to blame save the Scourge. But the Abandonists were totally right to leave, and the EAA were totally wrong to disregard The Warning.
I don't see any reason to buy into this now that Battlefleet Gothic is coming back
>>43639973
congratulations?
did you want a reason or are you just here to rain on the parade?
>>43639973
Amazing minis, better rules, company that will actually support the game rather than abandoning it in a matter of years.
That said, is it confirmed that Gothic is coming back? Last I heard that was a rumour, and furthermore it was rumoured to be returning after Epic, so...
>>43639973
Is BFG coming back as a full game or just board game (battlefleet dreadfleet)? Are the models going to cost more than the ebay equivalents? Are they going to be as balanced as 5 man squad can one shot a Warhound Titan Eldar? Is GW going to print one box and then cancel the game again or just Age of Sigmar? When is it even coming out?
On the DFC side, you are putting your faith into a solid company with a balanced game under its belt, amazing models, and being written by Andy Chambers who wrote the original BFG.
The choice is really clear. I still play Epic 40k and I wouldn't put it past GW to change the scale slightly, over charge for the models, and have shit rules. Even if the rules are decent the net epic ones are probably still going to be better.
>>43639973
Well, for once your money isn't going to absolute scumbags. Second of all, the writer of BFG is now writing this, so the "new" BFG will amost certainly have the AoS clowns as writing crew. Third...there's no third, I don't give a flying fuck about 40k as a setting.
>>43639973
You realize the guy who made those great BFG rules is working on his game? It's basically BFG but with the improvements he would've made if it had been allowed to live.
The new BFG game will probably be Dreadfleet tier.
>>43639633
UCM SCUM WE WILL GET YOU
PHR HAS WISDOM OF COMPUTER
REMOVE SCOURGE FROM THE PREMISES
WHITE BALL STRONK
Shaltari a bestHula hoop of doom cut you in half like primitive Earth weapon ChakramCome at me nameless firstborn diplomats
>>43639737
But humanity was anything but warlike at that point. It was an unified polity, and except for the Shaltari trying to use them as pawns, they were not really at war with anyone. Humanity had the Victory Disease, and bad.
>>43640563
This is starting to give me some serious Sins vibes.
>>43640599
Naw, the scourge is a total outside force. As usual, the trope is Humanity Gets Tangled In Things It Does Not Comprehend. I mean, they were given the cradle worlds for a reason...
>>43640613
>Naw, the scourge is a total outside force.
What are the Vasari for 500.
>>43640501
in retrospect joining the Shaltari slave races may have been a better plan than independence. Would have given humanity a better shot at surviving the scourge arrival, and our weapons tech would have been massively improved. Things would have been pretty good aside from the slavery thing.
>>43640702
Eh, it's not really slavery so long as the average individual isn't effected. It'd probably just mean that humanity becomes a dependent of the Shaltari, EarthGov answers to their beck and call, and everything goes on as normal except for maybe a bit more military recruitment and war industry.
>>43640635
Yeah but the Vasari were fleeing the some horrible doom force which had broken their once great Empire. The scourge almost seem to act like Tyranids in that they show up and use resources until they have used all the reasonably accessable ones, and taken the hosts to the limit, then move on to the next zone. This is at least what is so far known. They have had issues cloning humans for general use so far, unlike some prior host organisms (destroyers/worms)
>>43640613
The cradle worlds were given by the Shaltari who are organized in some sort of tribe sub group format in which each tribe does not necessarily consult with other tribes when doing things, they also have alot of infighting. The particular shaltari tribe which offered the humans the cradle worlds did so with the idea of turning them into a cannon fodder slave race. Humans got word of it and told em to fuck off. So they did, couple of other tribes are pissy about it and so constant border skirmishes. However shaltari are not really numerous enough to attempt a wide scale assault on the Humans. Hence they keep their homeworlds location a secret to avoid scourge attention
>>43640563
That's the point.
The UCM resemble the warlike cultures of the 21st century. The PHR probably see them as having fallen backwards, turning themselves into something ugly in order to combat the Scourge.
Of course, the PHR have literally changed themselves on a fundamental level, but they'd probably say they're ascending humanity to a new level or some shit.
>>43640791
>The UCM resemble the warlike cultures of the 21st century.America?
>>43640791
I'd not attribute such both lofty and simplistic point of view to them.
>>43640879
They did launch the reconquest on June 6th 2670 (literally the D-Day for the invasion was D-Day)
So I guess more Space Allies
>>43640942
>So I guess more Space Allies
Ah, Space America then.:^)
>>43640969
I think you mean Space Russia.
Really though, the other guy had it right when he said that they're essentially the humans from movieverse Starship Troopers. Amusingly, still better than the humans from bookverse Starship Troopers.
So, how many non-cradle UCM worlds are there? I know they're all names after Roman metals, with Aurum being the capitol and Ferrum being the not!forgeworld, what other ones are there?
>>43640883
The PHR may have some of those sentiments though. Its speculated in the second rule book that the PHR expected to not have their warning heeded and so everything is going according to some plan. They do view themselves as more than human
>>43641166
There are 12 major UCM worlds, Aurum is the Capital planet, there are however numerous other smaller less important worlds (theyve left it unspecified so you can make up your own stuff I think)
>>43641192
correction there are 100s of worlds, they only mention the big 12 though alot are sparsely populated. Again no specific number so you can make up your own special snowflake planet for your forces to be from or something
>>43641192
So I'm guessing they're named:
Aurum (Gold)
Argentum (Silver)
Ferrum (Iron)
Stibium (Antimony)
Cuprum (Copper)
Plumbum (Lead)
Hydragyrum (Mercury)
Kalium (Potassium)
Natrium (Sodium)
Stannum (Tin)
Wolfram (Tungsten)
But that's only 11, what would the last one likely be named?
>>43641300
Actually its:
Aurum (Au) -Urban Jungle
Ferrum (Fe) - "forge world"
Chromia (Cr) -Dome planet
Maganum (Mg) - "Agri world"
Cuprum (Cu) - Makes fold space drives
Niccolum (Ni) -Gas Giant people live in asteroid belt make ships
Stannum (Sn) - really cold provides water and liquid oxygen
Platina (Pt) - Pretty, has diamonds
Titania (Ti) - Arrakis
Aluminia (Al) - Water world, exports fish
Argenta (Ag) - Jungle world exports exotic food
Wolfrum (W) - Penal colony volcanic hellhole with rare minerals
>>43641167
Yea I thought that as well. They could just blend in with UCM planets. It is likely they were observing the growing UCM for a long time. I am sure the reaction they saw was both expected.It is even possible that is exactly what they wanted to happen.
>>43641592
thats what the UCM thinks, they cant trust the PHR because they only have self interest at heart
The PHR agenda is not understood, they seem to have sleeper agents everywhere and are both assisting and ambushing UCM forces its some Craftworld Eldar level shenanigans at this point
>>43641645
Well they could turn out to be benevolent or have humanity's best interest at heart.
However, I think it is more likely they want shit (old stuff earth stuff or maybe even scourge stuff) in the cradle worlds and it would be easier for them to sneak in to do things if there wasn't a war going on.
>>43641715
I dunno man anyone who gets advice from a white tennis ball cant be all there
>>43641883
The tennis ball was kinda right, though.
As far as we know it has a pretty great track record.
>>43641995
Im just naturally suspicious of alien white tennis balls bearing potentially correct advice. How does it know it might be an elaborate ruse
There's not a dropzone commander thread so I figured I'd ask here, how do the different races play? I'm primarily interested in scourge and PHR
>>43642685
Bit of a noob myself, but:
PHR = Slow durable with heavy firepower, expensive units
Scourge = Very Fast and Hard hitting, low range and not very durable, cheaper units
UCM = All arounders, cheaper units, have an answer to everything, but units tend to be a little weaker than others
Shaltari = Special faction, with powerful units and shields. Expensive Can use gates instead of dropships to pull of sneaky maneuvers
Resistance = Lots of cheaper units supported by more expensive really heavy ones.
>>43642685
Scourge are short range, fast and aggressive, but fragile, they can field a large number of units. Have some really excellent infantry.
PHR are slow heavy armor and high firepower long range. They have some more mobile elements but are slowest in the game. They however will win just about any fire fight
>>43643872
fairly accurate
>>43644853
Awesome. Have a bandit.
>>43644853
So /dcg/, hawk wargames is approached by a group of Japanese entrepenuers looking to make a drop____ commander anime. The catch? All the vehicles have to be hot females with bountiful cleavage or loli characteristics. Should the deal be taken?which vehicle would be best girl, the Hades? Or mischevious Ferrum-chan?
>>43644853
Noice! Is this the first example of DFC OC?
>>43642856
To add to this, the Resistance has access to massive drills that let you plop out a ton of angry technicals and the like whenever you want. And big honking hovercraft festooned with MLRS, and bombs bigger than tanks. Also very little of what they has any kind of countermeasure system, so they tend to get picked off more easily at long range.
They're like orks, but with less humor and more balls.
>>43645096
YesJaguar-chan; legs for DAYS
>>43645096
thats not a catch
also its clearly tsundere ferrum, keeps her distance and spies on you with drones, constantly trying new diets
>>43645096
>>43645147
Clearly the Dependable Sabre would be best girl, also avoid all scourge vehicles they would be entirely too clingy
>>43645213
Sabre-chan worries her big sisters overshadow her (after all, Scimitar-chan makes boys crazy from miles away) but her dependability and reliability make her an equally desirable choice.
I don't know man, scourge girls constantly want to get alone and I've heard they're into kinky stuff. Lots of tentacles and shocks to improve performance in the bedroom.
>>43645273
youd think that until a mob of prowler-chans mob you asking you to pick the best one ans complaining about Stalker and Oppressor senpai
We made it to 350k!
