Is entropy lawful or chaotic?
It's neither. It has no moral precepts
Are you asking whether it's order or chaos made manifest?
If so the answer is lawful/order.
The fact that everything withers and dies is life's only absolute.
>>43588773
It is neither good nor evil, that is for certain. Those are ethical principles. Nothing in the natural world has ethical principles. The natural world has no principles as at all. Patterns, on the other hand, are everywhere in the natural world. And what are law and chaos but patterns?
True neutral.
Lawful might see absolute order in the end, Chaos might see spastic surges, but neither lay claim over it nor does it actively pursue or lean towards either.
>>43588768
Chaotic as fuck. Hell, it is a measure of chaos by some definitions, with higher entropy meaning more chaos.
>>43588799
Law is a purely human moral precept, and the word chaos is something we coined to describe disorder that then got hijacked by mathematicians, but in the context used here, where it is placed in opposition to law, it is clearly being used in the moral sense
>>43588799
Principles are the things that the natural world _does_ have. The principle of least action, the principle of symmetric conservation (Noether's Theorem) and so on.
>>43588768
It's a scientific concept. Also probably one you do not understand.
>>43588768
It's the breakdown of complexity into something simpler and less energetic. And the last time I read any RPG book on alignments; forces of nature do not qualify as either lawful or chaotic as it would imply they had any understanding to be so
>>43588828
Entropy will end in uniformity - a flat playing field of stillness where all useable energy has been converted and lost as a consequence and expression of natural laws. Sounds fairly ordered and lawful.
It isThe universe's only absolute, and the Incubators were fools to try to stop it.
>>43588957
What about until then? With energy being lost and converted with reckless abandon? Would you agree that sounds relatively chaotic?Does the end justify the means?
>>43588768
Obviously asfojiwonj10110111011ulululu101010110 gr3enbutterjalapenuuuuriiii#)(%%å@"¤%%"asdr!!%??
>>43588984
No, it's all done in an orderly fashion.
>>43588872
Under the definition that poster is using, that would probably be covered under patterns.
>>43588872
You're confusing two different definitions of the word 'principle.'
>>43588773
>>43588842
The law vs. chaos dichotomy covers more than just the ideals of groups and individuals. Although, when it's applied to other things, "law" is usually called "order".
>>43588768
It'sBOTH!
>>43588957
Passiveness =/= law. One could argue that heat death is the return to a state of primal chaos -- a heat-dead universe would contain no orderly structures capable of exerting force, requiring a miraculous spark to break out of its doldrums, basically a second Big Bang. It would be a universe without logic or meaning. That sounds pretty chaotic to me.
>people trying to argue that entropy is anything BUT chaotic
en·tro·py
ˈentrəpē/
noun
1.
PHYSICS
a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
2.
lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.
"a marketplace where entropy reigns supreme"
cha·os
ˈkāˌäs/
noun
complete disorder and confusion.
PHYSICS
behavior so unpredictable as to appear random, owing to great sensitivity to small changes in conditions.
>interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system
>complete disorder and confusion
>so unpredictable as to appear random
It's chaotic, though lacks any form of ethical alignment, so I would say its Chaotic Neutral, or simply just Chaotic.
>>43589187
Precisely.
>>43588970
If chaos always results in and always has resulted in a specific result, is it really chaotic?
>>43588789
Entropy may be the purest form of law, or it may be the purest form of chaos, but one thing's for certain, and that's thatyuri is the purest form of love.
>>43589759
MUH ANON!!!
>>43589317
/thread
>>43588768
Is temperature Good or Evil?
That is exactly how stupid your question is.
>>43590131
They didn't ask if it was Good or Evil. They asked if it was Lawful or Chaotic. >>43589317 pretty much answer this question already.
>>43588768
Well, the end state of entropy does result in the most orderly possible state of the universe. And the only explanations for why this shouldn't happen tend to involve chaos theory.
>>43588789
>>43588828
>>43588833
>>43588957
>>43588984
>>43590685
The end state of entropy, heat death, is only Lawful or Orderly if we consider Law and Order to be passive. Neither the Law nor the Lawful are passive, because the definition of the alignment of Law is "acting according to the rules" -- if there can be no action, there certainly can be no action in accordance to rules.
If there can be no action, there can be no Law. Likewise, if there can be no action, there can be no Chaos, for there can be no action without or against any rules. Neither Law nor Chaos is inherently more active or passive.
Entropy is a decay, a release of energy into a passive state, the ultimate result of which is heat death. Heat death does not act according to rules like Law, nor does it act without or against rules like Chaos, because heat death by nature does not act at all.
Neutrality, on the other hand, walks between Law and Chaos, acting either to bring balance between the two or acting without regard to either. Because entropy results in a state where there is no action and therefore neither Law nor Chaos, which then become balanced via absence, it could be said that entropy is Neutral. However, Neutrality, like any alignment, must act in order to accomplish anything. Therefore, as the universe approaches heat death, neutral action will decrease in proportion to Lawful and Chaotic action as entropy exacts its toll on all three.
>>43591421
Taking all of this into account, it seems as though entropy bears traits from Law, Chaos, and Neutrality. It is like Law because it is unavoidable, must always be accounted for, and ultimately results in a peaceful universe. It is like Chaos because Law itself breaks down in the face of it, and because, after a long decline into disorder, it ultimately results in what resembles the primal Chaos. It is like Neutrality because it acts without regard to Law or Chaos, and because the ultimate result is technically neither lawful not chaotic.
This all points to the notion that entropy is Unaligned, yet Unaliged action too must ultimately submit to it and be consumed no differently from Law, Chaos, or Neutrality.
Therefore, the only reasonable conclusion is that both all three alignments and none, both precisely between every alignment and on a completely different level as them, both Neutrally balanced and entirely Unaligned. Entropy is where Law and Chaos meet, uniting the ethical alignment axis into a great ring of three parts, yet is not itself one of those parts. Entropy is the hook that allows the necklace to be worn. Entropy is magenta in the rainbow. Entropy is where the serpent bites its tail. And perhaps, as that serpent symbolizes, beyond the cool stillness of heat death, will eventually come rebirth.
>>43589038
Nice epic meme image newfriend.
>>43588768
If a tree falls in the woods but no one is around to hear it, is it lawful or chaotic?
>>43590131
Hell is hot, therefore cold must be good. True Neutral is seventy-two degrees Fahrenheit.
>>43588768
Entropy is practically synonymous with chaos. It is the breaking down of any ordered system back to its base components. A high entropy system is a more chaotic system. You create order out of chaos, and entropy eventually returns it back to chaos.
But paradoxically, the ultimate expression of entropy, the heat death of the universe, is also the expression of perfect order. In it all systems have been broken down to their base components, and all matter evenly dispersed across the universe, leaving everything completely uniform and unchanging. The heat death is chaos taken so far it loops back into ultimate expression of order.
>>43588768
Neither. It is disorder and cosmos.
In a world run by law, 1+1 will always be 2.
But in a world with entropy, at some point 1+1 will eventually be 1 or even 0.
That's chaos.
>>43592274
You're being too simplistic, read the scientific papers on the subject. https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/hell.htm
>>43588768
Entropy is inherently Chaotic.
Coobs was LG, deal with it.
Chaotic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_motion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
tl:dr - absolute entropy isn't still or passive, it contains endless unbounded random movement.
/endthread
>>43588768
Is gravity lawful or chaotic?
>>43588768
Chaos is but an unknown order
>>43588768
Lawful Neutral. It's passive, it just happens, but is a fundamental, unavoidable cosmic process. If it were Chaotic, not everything would fall to it because there would be no rules for what falls to entropy. As a law, it states everything must go towards heat death, everything, no exceptions, into ultimate unmoving cosmic peace.
>>43592853
>wiener process
>>43592887
Lawful or neutral. Gravity causes things to move in a uniform and predictable way, which works great if you're trying to assign arbitrary alignments to universal forces.
>>43588768
Chaotic. Chaos is the rest state of everything, Law is the temporary imposition of islands of organization and complexity in the greater chaos.
>>43588768
It is none of these.
It is simply oblivion, the antithesis of existence, serving only to reduce "something" to "nothing."
Why do you think we fear it?
>>43593588
I like this idea -- lawful oases in a desert of chaos.
>>43594841
That's literally how (the Plane of) Limbo works.
>>43588768
The process of entropy is chaotic, but the ultimate result of it will be the epitome of order. For this reason, entropy contains elements of both law and chaos, making it perfectly neutral, if aligned at all.
>>43592274
Dante Alighieri would disagree with your premise.
>>43588768
Entropy is lawful. In a situation where entropy has succeeded in breaking everything into its most basic form it also scatters it completely equally. What is the most basic quality of order? Equality.
Secondly entropy is in line with the laws of the universe, acting against it is a violation of the laws and inherently unlawful.
>>43588768
It's negative-energy aligned, and as any necromancy apologetic will tell you, negative energy dindonuffin.
>>43589759
>Entropy may be the purest form of law, or it may be the purest form of chaos, but one thing's for certain, and it's thatbeing meguca is suffering.
FTFY
>>43596549
In theendless sufferingofbeing meguca, there is onlyyurito bring us solace.
>>43597355
Yis...
Note to self: once ND has posted in a thread, it is tainted. Make any suggestive jokes or references in that thread and the curse's power will grow.
>>43589930
that's pretty heretical
>>43588768
>is the even dispersal of heat orderly or chaotic
Do I need to even say it?
>>43588768
>entropy
>destruction of order
>increase of chaos
>lawful or chaotic
hmmm
OP question is basically a /tg/-ified version of a classic physics troll question. Hook, line, sinker, etc. Still, I'm impressed that you've managed to make a passingly interesting thread out of this, /tg/.
>>43602909
seems liek teh ies chapz r moar orderly bcuz of aow teh molercules r ranged n teh chapz mr siunz man
>>43588768
True Neutral
/thread
>>43588768
On a moral level? Neither, stop being such a pleb.
On a Physical level? The interplay between Chaotic happenstance and orderly action and reaction, stop being such a pleb.
>>43591421
>>43592083
This sounds like a lot of pseudo-scientific bullshit with a truck load of assumptions and arbitrary definitions applied to a nebulous and ill-defined question.
